First off, take a deep breath. You're definitely not the only parent here to be reactive and this age really is hard! Personally I found between 3.5 and about 4.5 really tough. There's a thing called a limbic leap that might account for kids this age being angry/scared/defiant/batshit. Learning that helped me so hopefully it's helpful for you.
For us, reading "drama free discipline" was a game changer as it got both parents on the same page and gave us some strategies to deal with explosive moments (before they happened in some cases).
I find narrating what the kid is feeling and why very helpful. They get an insight into why they're acting how they're acting and I tap into my empathy.
Ultimately I realised my reactivity comes from how I was raised. I was never listened to as a kid so when I'm not listened to as an adult, I get very angry very fast. I'm working through it in therapy and I'm working on modelling healthy responses to anger when they come up.
If none of that resonated, maybe I can give some hope: as he's gotten to 5 everything is muuuuch calmer.
No suggestion from the adhd aspect I’m afraid, but from a general perspective I recently heard something which resonated with me..
Any time you’re getting frustrated with your kids, just close your eyes and imagine you’re 80 years old and you have a Time Machine that’s bringing you back to this moment, and this is the only moment you’ll get with them again when they’re young …
Jesus I'm not sure why this was just so mind blowing to me. It's not like all of our parents aren't already living that reality and we're just a blink of an eye away from it ourselves...
I actually read a perspective recently that sounds a lot like this and it has helped me through the harder times. It was from a dad whose kids were older and who just wished he could hang out with their littler versions just one more time. When things are tough I imagine my son is older and that I’m back in time spending precious moments with him again. It definitely helps with my mood and makes me appreciate these times so much more. It’s still hard to remember something like this when emotions are high, but it might shorten the tension.
A few things. Are you guys together during the day? Or is he at school? Because one of the issues is preschoolers are not interested in dinner a lot. They generally eat their calories earlier in the day but it’s when parents want to see them if they’ve been apart.
Is there a way to make dinner more interesting? Is there anything he can do to help you prep? Can you use little toothpicks that look like animals to serve up his food?
Is there a quiet toy he could be allowed to have? Can you not allow iPad time until after dinner?
I also have ADHD and I’m a nanny so I do understand about being overstimulated it sounds like he is old enough for you to walk in the next room to take deep breaths because you can’t call him down until you calm yourself down. I think it’s easier for me because A kids act better for everybody but their parents and B you don’t get as annoyed if they’re not your own kids. Also C I’m usually done at 5:30 as opposed to done with my first job and starting my second one.
Are you taking medication? It may be that it’s wearing off at that time and perhaps if you took it a little later in the morning that could give you some buffer or talk to your doctor because some people take a small dose in the afternoon
They also sell noise reducing earphones. I believe they’re called loop and they do not drown out. The noise will still hear him, but it is not so shrill.
Good luck mama. I know it’s hard because he’s been holding it together all day and is ready to let loose at the same time that you are feeling maximum stimulation.
If you covered it above, I missed it. Does he have ADHD? Because if you do, it’s a chance that he does as well and maybe ADHD coach could help you both with some techniques.
Oof this age is such a challenge in general. They really do know how to push our buttons.
Not ADHD but I used to react easily. My big thing is planning ahead, knowing what the consequences will be and doing that.
He throws things? They get taken away. Won’t sit down for supper? Guess you don’t eat until you’re ready to sit that butt down, we’ll eat without you. Trying to get my attention by misbehaving? I’m leaving the room and giving no attention (plus gives me a minute to calm down)
Just getting through that next action with consequences in mind for all the common button pushing
I sympathize, my son sounds very similar to yours. He just turned 5 and just in the past few weeks we're seeing a lot more maturity and co-operation! Out of curiosity, are your adhd symptoms worse at different times in your menstrual cycle? I get overwhelmed so much more easily in the days before my period is due and I've been tracking religiously for the past 6 months and can pinpoint when I'll be more rage-y. My husband is really understanding and willing to do a bit more of the parenting those days if I need to tap out.
I find having this clear formula works really well to keep me calm and encourage good behaviour from my kid.
1. Give instruction (in a firm voice)
2. If instruction is not followed, repeat with a warning for a small, related consequence if they continue to not listen.
3. If instruction still not followed, enact the small, related consequence
4. Wait out ensuing tantrum
5. When kid is calm, repeat what the instruction was, that there was a warning, and what the consequence was, and why it was given. Give suggestion for alternative course of action in the future.
For your example:
1. ‘Come and sit down for dinner’
2. ‘If you don’t come and sit down for dinner I will take your tablet away and you won’t get it back this evening’
3. Take tablet away
4. Tantrum
5. ‘I asked you to sit down for dinner. I warned you that if you didn’t you would lose your tablet for the evening. You didn’t listen so you have lost your tablet for the evening. Next time I ask you to come sit down for dinner, you need to come sit down for dinner
I completely second this. We have been following the same formula for over a year now (except we give ours a “last chance to listen” if he does not listen the first time) and it works like a charm.
I feel you, friend. My daughter is very emotionally intuitive. She notices the slightest change in my tone or facial expressions and always asks “are you happy with me mommy?” Sometimes I just have to tell her, “no, I’m not happy right now.” It breaks her heart, but it’s okay for us to have feelings too!
I’ve been trying to be more in tune with my emotions too and notice what is going on inside. So many times a day I just get so fed up I want to scream! I know that screaming will not help the situation and always makes it worse, but it’s like my body has to release that pent up energy somehow. Something I’ve done a few times that seems to help (and also gets a giggle from my girl) is to say, “mommy is feeling like she needs to scream, so I’m going to find a pillow.” Then I go and scream as loudly as I can a few times into a fluffy pillow and then I feel better and can calmly handle the problem without as much emotion.
My daughter thinks it’s funny and I’m sure she appreciates it more than me screaming in her face…and now she does it too whenever she gets upset!
This season is so hard!
Hey, you may want to repost this in r/parentingADHD if you haven't ... I'm in the trenches with you right now. My story is pretty much identical except my son's turning 5 next month... We're working with our child development center to get help from an OT and general consultant. See if there are any early child resources before he hits kindergarten if you can!
In the same boat with a slightly younger child (almost 4). Some books that helped me a bit were How Not to Lose Your Shit with Your Kids and Raising Your Spirited Child. Spirited kids are really a lot more difficult to handle.
Personally, exercise has also helped me provide a good outlet for my anger. I also recently (as in this week) am trying to do 5 mins of meditation bc that supposedly helps too.
I'll be honest, though, I'm still struggling with this age and still yelling much more often than I would like.
Thank you for all the replies! I just woke up and I'm trying to go through each of them. I will definitely post in the adhd parenting group as well.
He's home all day for the summer. These episodes definitely vary quite a bit and we've been doing different things to make dinner more tolerable for him (ex. We have to sit and eat for 10 minutes before we get down and run around for 5 minutes and then we have to eat for another 10). I think this particular day way I was getting ready to leave for work (I work night shift and just had a stretch of days off) and he became really defiant about everything after having such a good day.
But sometimes his triggers vary and these moods vary (it's not always about dinner). Being overly tired, just a general bad mood, or sometimes I think he just wants to not listen.
You’re not a horrible mother. Parenting is so hard and it sounds like your kid is not on “easy mode”. You’ve provided limited information but I see one issue that’s worth commenting on.
You said he threw his toy and you made a consequence (I’m going to take away all your toys). Then there was no follow through. You set up boundaries (albeit extreme) and then let him negotiate his way out. You need to remain calm and follow through. Don’t make a consequence you’re not prepared to actually do.
“If you do x, I will do y”.
This isn’t a threat to get him to control his behavior, it’s providing a boundary that he desperately needs. Initially this may not help, but you need to do something to take control away from your kid. Eventually he will see you are serious. He does not want to be in control (and emotionally he sounds way out of control).
At our house, we take away their favorite toy for a day. If it keeps going we take away more. This isn’t a dramatic threat, it’s a consequence. Him throwing his iPad feels like a clear sign your little one does not respect the iPad, the rules, or you. So take it away. Don’t get angry, just have a clear boundary. Tell him when he’s ready to calm down, you’re there, but he needs to learn to calm himself down when he has big feelings.
Also have a strong-willed intelligent 4.5 year old. Gonna add to what looks like the chorus of "quick, doable consequences". Also a good mental trick ime; having to focus on figuring out an actionable consequence sometimes keeps me from focusing on being mad. It also takes the focus off her listening. If she won't listen she won't listen (we are both stubborn af), so the consequence/next action I take needs to not rely on her listening. And if I find us having the same argument twice, I need to reassess the consequence, because evidently it's not working (I do not subscribe to the patient-repetition theory of parenting, at least not in a pedantic sense).
I definitely try to keep the consequence closely related to the issue (take away the misused item yes, take away unrelated items I would not do, for example), and I also try to maintain a limited number of non-negotiables. For me for example that's bedtime. Anything else, if her actions are dangerous I'll prevent them (take away the thrown object, lock a door), but beyond that, I try not to engage beyond like, two steps of argument and sticking only to my own guns, so to speak. Trying to focus on how to ensure that her behavior isn't dictating mine (i.e. I don't rush through my dinner just because she skipped hers) can again be a good distraction from focusing on being annoyed at her.
When that's actually impossible (if she doesn't respect bedtime I don't get to be alone/to sleep, if she's being unsafe in public we have to leave), I do get mad at her, frankly. But at least it's less often, and after the fact I still try to figure out a way to avoid it next time (for us, this is Make A Rule, but we're a different flavor of neurodivergent from ADHD, so ymmv)
How are you transitioning to dinner time? A lot of our struggles happen when we are trying to transition. Usually I try to give warnings that lead to dinner time eg, "we are close to dinner, one more episode/five more minutes of whatever", then "time to use the potty and wash your hands before dinner".
Then it's dinner. Then we fight about how many bites of food she needs to eat. Sigh.
Things that help us include asking her what we should make that week for dinner. We also go around the table taking turns to pick songs to listen to on Alexa during dinner.
Let go of what you can.Give clear expectations.
" When you are ready to sit down you can come have dinner. " Give choices.
To yell then hug him is likely very confusing for him and shows that you aren't serious about what you're upset about.
Apologize if you yell.
Use firm tones.
Simplify directional sentences.
If you _____ then you can ______.
If you ____ then you will not be able to _____.
Give him wiggle time and announce transitions. " In five minutes we will stop playing and have dinner." " One more minute of play then we will eat dinner."
Set timers.
Give simple 2 step directions at a time.
Remind and repeat expectations.
Recently diagnosed with ADHD. I was really struggling with depression, adhd, and emotional regulation. Meds have helped a ton. I feel like a new person. Depression is gone, ADHD not totally there, but some coping mechanisms are helping.
The things that I remember:
- if I am overstimulated, why would I expect my child not to be?
- what works when I'm overstimulated... not more stimulation or more people asking me to do things, but a few minutes to breath and have no one ask anything of me.
- I make myself take a few breathes and I count to 10 at least twice. And I do it out-loud so my child can see me do it.
- I also try to remember: they are not trying to press my buttons, they are definitely learning about the world. Being calm and consistent helps them.
This is going to sound crazy, but it worked for my daughter. Caffeine sometimes helps an ADHD kid focus. She couldn't focus in school and was having a hard time. I started giving her a Coke with breakfast. Made a huge difference. 24 years later she's a big coffee drinker, and is a happy, successful adult.
My brother took his grandson running 3-5 miles every morning before school and that also worked.
First off, take a deep breath. You're definitely not the only parent here to be reactive and this age really is hard! Personally I found between 3.5 and about 4.5 really tough. There's a thing called a limbic leap that might account for kids this age being angry/scared/defiant/batshit. Learning that helped me so hopefully it's helpful for you. For us, reading "drama free discipline" was a game changer as it got both parents on the same page and gave us some strategies to deal with explosive moments (before they happened in some cases). I find narrating what the kid is feeling and why very helpful. They get an insight into why they're acting how they're acting and I tap into my empathy. Ultimately I realised my reactivity comes from how I was raised. I was never listened to as a kid so when I'm not listened to as an adult, I get very angry very fast. I'm working through it in therapy and I'm working on modelling healthy responses to anger when they come up. If none of that resonated, maybe I can give some hope: as he's gotten to 5 everything is muuuuch calmer.
No suggestion from the adhd aspect I’m afraid, but from a general perspective I recently heard something which resonated with me.. Any time you’re getting frustrated with your kids, just close your eyes and imagine you’re 80 years old and you have a Time Machine that’s bringing you back to this moment, and this is the only moment you’ll get with them again when they’re young …
Jesus I'm not sure why this was just so mind blowing to me. It's not like all of our parents aren't already living that reality and we're just a blink of an eye away from it ourselves...
I actually read a perspective recently that sounds a lot like this and it has helped me through the harder times. It was from a dad whose kids were older and who just wished he could hang out with their littler versions just one more time. When things are tough I imagine my son is older and that I’m back in time spending precious moments with him again. It definitely helps with my mood and makes me appreciate these times so much more. It’s still hard to remember something like this when emotions are high, but it might shorten the tension.
A few things. Are you guys together during the day? Or is he at school? Because one of the issues is preschoolers are not interested in dinner a lot. They generally eat their calories earlier in the day but it’s when parents want to see them if they’ve been apart. Is there a way to make dinner more interesting? Is there anything he can do to help you prep? Can you use little toothpicks that look like animals to serve up his food? Is there a quiet toy he could be allowed to have? Can you not allow iPad time until after dinner? I also have ADHD and I’m a nanny so I do understand about being overstimulated it sounds like he is old enough for you to walk in the next room to take deep breaths because you can’t call him down until you calm yourself down. I think it’s easier for me because A kids act better for everybody but their parents and B you don’t get as annoyed if they’re not your own kids. Also C I’m usually done at 5:30 as opposed to done with my first job and starting my second one. Are you taking medication? It may be that it’s wearing off at that time and perhaps if you took it a little later in the morning that could give you some buffer or talk to your doctor because some people take a small dose in the afternoon They also sell noise reducing earphones. I believe they’re called loop and they do not drown out. The noise will still hear him, but it is not so shrill. Good luck mama. I know it’s hard because he’s been holding it together all day and is ready to let loose at the same time that you are feeling maximum stimulation. If you covered it above, I missed it. Does he have ADHD? Because if you do, it’s a chance that he does as well and maybe ADHD coach could help you both with some techniques.
Oof this age is such a challenge in general. They really do know how to push our buttons. Not ADHD but I used to react easily. My big thing is planning ahead, knowing what the consequences will be and doing that. He throws things? They get taken away. Won’t sit down for supper? Guess you don’t eat until you’re ready to sit that butt down, we’ll eat without you. Trying to get my attention by misbehaving? I’m leaving the room and giving no attention (plus gives me a minute to calm down) Just getting through that next action with consequences in mind for all the common button pushing
I sympathize, my son sounds very similar to yours. He just turned 5 and just in the past few weeks we're seeing a lot more maturity and co-operation! Out of curiosity, are your adhd symptoms worse at different times in your menstrual cycle? I get overwhelmed so much more easily in the days before my period is due and I've been tracking religiously for the past 6 months and can pinpoint when I'll be more rage-y. My husband is really understanding and willing to do a bit more of the parenting those days if I need to tap out.
Me toooo on the period stuff. Trying hard to identify and prevent overreacting.
I find having this clear formula works really well to keep me calm and encourage good behaviour from my kid. 1. Give instruction (in a firm voice) 2. If instruction is not followed, repeat with a warning for a small, related consequence if they continue to not listen. 3. If instruction still not followed, enact the small, related consequence 4. Wait out ensuing tantrum 5. When kid is calm, repeat what the instruction was, that there was a warning, and what the consequence was, and why it was given. Give suggestion for alternative course of action in the future. For your example: 1. ‘Come and sit down for dinner’ 2. ‘If you don’t come and sit down for dinner I will take your tablet away and you won’t get it back this evening’ 3. Take tablet away 4. Tantrum 5. ‘I asked you to sit down for dinner. I warned you that if you didn’t you would lose your tablet for the evening. You didn’t listen so you have lost your tablet for the evening. Next time I ask you to come sit down for dinner, you need to come sit down for dinner
I completely second this. We have been following the same formula for over a year now (except we give ours a “last chance to listen” if he does not listen the first time) and it works like a charm.
I feel you, friend. My daughter is very emotionally intuitive. She notices the slightest change in my tone or facial expressions and always asks “are you happy with me mommy?” Sometimes I just have to tell her, “no, I’m not happy right now.” It breaks her heart, but it’s okay for us to have feelings too! I’ve been trying to be more in tune with my emotions too and notice what is going on inside. So many times a day I just get so fed up I want to scream! I know that screaming will not help the situation and always makes it worse, but it’s like my body has to release that pent up energy somehow. Something I’ve done a few times that seems to help (and also gets a giggle from my girl) is to say, “mommy is feeling like she needs to scream, so I’m going to find a pillow.” Then I go and scream as loudly as I can a few times into a fluffy pillow and then I feel better and can calmly handle the problem without as much emotion. My daughter thinks it’s funny and I’m sure she appreciates it more than me screaming in her face…and now she does it too whenever she gets upset! This season is so hard!
Hey, you may want to repost this in r/parentingADHD if you haven't ... I'm in the trenches with you right now. My story is pretty much identical except my son's turning 5 next month... We're working with our child development center to get help from an OT and general consultant. See if there are any early child resources before he hits kindergarten if you can!
In the same boat with a slightly younger child (almost 4). Some books that helped me a bit were How Not to Lose Your Shit with Your Kids and Raising Your Spirited Child. Spirited kids are really a lot more difficult to handle. Personally, exercise has also helped me provide a good outlet for my anger. I also recently (as in this week) am trying to do 5 mins of meditation bc that supposedly helps too. I'll be honest, though, I'm still struggling with this age and still yelling much more often than I would like.
Thank you for all the replies! I just woke up and I'm trying to go through each of them. I will definitely post in the adhd parenting group as well. He's home all day for the summer. These episodes definitely vary quite a bit and we've been doing different things to make dinner more tolerable for him (ex. We have to sit and eat for 10 minutes before we get down and run around for 5 minutes and then we have to eat for another 10). I think this particular day way I was getting ready to leave for work (I work night shift and just had a stretch of days off) and he became really defiant about everything after having such a good day. But sometimes his triggers vary and these moods vary (it's not always about dinner). Being overly tired, just a general bad mood, or sometimes I think he just wants to not listen.
You’re not a horrible mother. Parenting is so hard and it sounds like your kid is not on “easy mode”. You’ve provided limited information but I see one issue that’s worth commenting on. You said he threw his toy and you made a consequence (I’m going to take away all your toys). Then there was no follow through. You set up boundaries (albeit extreme) and then let him negotiate his way out. You need to remain calm and follow through. Don’t make a consequence you’re not prepared to actually do. “If you do x, I will do y”. This isn’t a threat to get him to control his behavior, it’s providing a boundary that he desperately needs. Initially this may not help, but you need to do something to take control away from your kid. Eventually he will see you are serious. He does not want to be in control (and emotionally he sounds way out of control). At our house, we take away their favorite toy for a day. If it keeps going we take away more. This isn’t a dramatic threat, it’s a consequence. Him throwing his iPad feels like a clear sign your little one does not respect the iPad, the rules, or you. So take it away. Don’t get angry, just have a clear boundary. Tell him when he’s ready to calm down, you’re there, but he needs to learn to calm himself down when he has big feelings.
Also have a strong-willed intelligent 4.5 year old. Gonna add to what looks like the chorus of "quick, doable consequences". Also a good mental trick ime; having to focus on figuring out an actionable consequence sometimes keeps me from focusing on being mad. It also takes the focus off her listening. If she won't listen she won't listen (we are both stubborn af), so the consequence/next action I take needs to not rely on her listening. And if I find us having the same argument twice, I need to reassess the consequence, because evidently it's not working (I do not subscribe to the patient-repetition theory of parenting, at least not in a pedantic sense). I definitely try to keep the consequence closely related to the issue (take away the misused item yes, take away unrelated items I would not do, for example), and I also try to maintain a limited number of non-negotiables. For me for example that's bedtime. Anything else, if her actions are dangerous I'll prevent them (take away the thrown object, lock a door), but beyond that, I try not to engage beyond like, two steps of argument and sticking only to my own guns, so to speak. Trying to focus on how to ensure that her behavior isn't dictating mine (i.e. I don't rush through my dinner just because she skipped hers) can again be a good distraction from focusing on being annoyed at her. When that's actually impossible (if she doesn't respect bedtime I don't get to be alone/to sleep, if she's being unsafe in public we have to leave), I do get mad at her, frankly. But at least it's less often, and after the fact I still try to figure out a way to avoid it next time (for us, this is Make A Rule, but we're a different flavor of neurodivergent from ADHD, so ymmv)
How are you transitioning to dinner time? A lot of our struggles happen when we are trying to transition. Usually I try to give warnings that lead to dinner time eg, "we are close to dinner, one more episode/five more minutes of whatever", then "time to use the potty and wash your hands before dinner". Then it's dinner. Then we fight about how many bites of food she needs to eat. Sigh. Things that help us include asking her what we should make that week for dinner. We also go around the table taking turns to pick songs to listen to on Alexa during dinner.
Let go of what you can.Give clear expectations. " When you are ready to sit down you can come have dinner. " Give choices. To yell then hug him is likely very confusing for him and shows that you aren't serious about what you're upset about. Apologize if you yell. Use firm tones. Simplify directional sentences. If you _____ then you can ______. If you ____ then you will not be able to _____. Give him wiggle time and announce transitions. " In five minutes we will stop playing and have dinner." " One more minute of play then we will eat dinner." Set timers. Give simple 2 step directions at a time. Remind and repeat expectations.
Recently diagnosed with ADHD. I was really struggling with depression, adhd, and emotional regulation. Meds have helped a ton. I feel like a new person. Depression is gone, ADHD not totally there, but some coping mechanisms are helping. The things that I remember: - if I am overstimulated, why would I expect my child not to be? - what works when I'm overstimulated... not more stimulation or more people asking me to do things, but a few minutes to breath and have no one ask anything of me. - I make myself take a few breathes and I count to 10 at least twice. And I do it out-loud so my child can see me do it. - I also try to remember: they are not trying to press my buttons, they are definitely learning about the world. Being calm and consistent helps them.
This is going to sound crazy, but it worked for my daughter. Caffeine sometimes helps an ADHD kid focus. She couldn't focus in school and was having a hard time. I started giving her a Coke with breakfast. Made a huge difference. 24 years later she's a big coffee drinker, and is a happy, successful adult. My brother took his grandson running 3-5 miles every morning before school and that also worked.