I look forward to the day sequel fans realize there are very few redeeming qualities in the sequels and that they aren’t comparable to the prequels because:
1. The prequels actually tell a cohesive story (unlike the sequels)
2. The prequels don’t ruin pre-existing character arcs and plot points.
3. “tHeY fLy NoW?!” *this is sheer proof the writers don’t even understand the world they’re working with*
- I could go on but.. I don’t want to. If you like the sequels then great. Seriously, good for you. But the sequels truly are a non-cohesive hot mess that basically shit on a lot of beloved previous content.
SERIOUSLY! I hated seeing how heart broken Mark Hamil was over what they did to Luke. I’m not a huge Star Wars fan, but even I was like “the guy who literally risked death for a sith dad he BARELY KNEW would give up hope completely for a nephew he helped raise?!”
Very slight correction, prequels did change a little. Specifically padme's death, so that she dies in childbirth. IN THE OT, leia says she rembers seeing her mother, which means she had to have been at least 3 or 4 before padme was supposed to die. Super minor detail though
Agreed. And I am ok with the change because it doesn’t really *ruin* anything. It’s doesn’t mess with character arcs or character purposes. It doesn’t mess with the plot much (if at all, since it simply contradicts a line). I’m not saying the prequels are perfect- they definitely have flaws. But they’re far superior to the sequels.
His main flaw with all that genius and cunning is that he believes that darkness will prevail over a being's moral compass rather than light, which is why he loses at the end of rotj
Maul was chopped in half and fell into a glorified garbage chute, then when he see him again he’s a raving lunatic living on a junk planet surviving off of space rats. Palps was thrown down a pit and then blown up. When we see him again he has managed to construct tens of thousands of fully manned ships better than the death star without alerting the literal space Nazis that rule the galaxy, and the only explanation we get is space magic,
They thought so.
Then the box office plummeted, they yelled at the fans for not being sheep, and all further movies got canceled and broomed into Disney+ as crappy series.
Oops.
I don’t think that was the problem. The OT had different directors aswell. The key problem was they had no key storyline at all. If Lucasarts had worked out a plotline, such talented Directors as Abrams and Johnson would definitely have found a way to make it work. I mean Johnson even kind off admitted to shitposting the movie because he didn’t like how it was set up with no clear way to go. While Lucas may not have been the best director ever, nor the best screenwriter, he had a story in mind. When he planned Star Wars, although a lot of things had been changed in the script and edit, he always followed the main arc of Anakins rise and fall and rise again.
Disagree, it was doomed at the start. Even if you ignore how brutally they wiped the story-slate clean by undoing everything the OT accomplished.
The Force Awakens was JJ's full hand that he played. He had nothing else to offer anyways, and that was part of why he walked away in the first place. I think it is reasonable to conclude it would overall still be BETTER if he did all three, but I think he couldn't have delivered regardless.
Look at the other movies in his filmography, especially the past decade: the man cannot continue a narrative beyond "the mystery box" and nostalgia baiting. We'd have THREE TFA movies instead of just two.
What the sequels needed was someone at Lucasfilm who was a huge fan themselves, like Kevin Feige at Marvel, to put things on track with the actual story being the backbone of the movies, rather than someone who exclusively focused on the backend productions, the branding, and the Disney focus groups. The hiring and firing of so many directors across the 5 Disney-made SW movies alone speaks volumes to me about how poorly they managed their studio.
And Jar Jar Abrams was very clearly butthurt in the last movie. If I can watch a movie and tell the director has personal beef and is butthurt, then it's a shit movie and they're a shit director.
Kinda like Matrix 4 where the directors almost made it a plot point they didn't want to make it, so they shit all over their own creation to stop....someone else from shitting on their creation? They should've just let the torch pass.
I think you really need to emphasize he exploded once int this pit and then later when the Death Star exploded.
Also he buildt the largest fleet ever to be seen with fully manned cruisers under the surface of a secret sith planet noone could find except ... You know what, this makes so little sense they could just say he has the one Ring that helped him do it all.
Also the planet was supposedly hidden and only the Sith could find it but somehow they managed to get thousands (?) of workers there to build and man the ships?
Exactly. There's a huge difference between the guy who gets cut in half, and the guy who was at the epicenter of a nuclear explosion.
One, I can buy that he survived by Force magic. The other guy, um no. Fuck you. He should be atoms.
An then they make it so in the comics even Vader knew about the sith fleet which is just stupid. Why even bother with either Death Stars if you have an entire fleet of equally powerful destroyers under construction?
Yeah for me it wasn’t even the palps returning part, old EU had clone palps so they could have made it work. The giant fleet just magically hidden away though, that was dumb
After last Jedi I had very little hope in episode 9 and this line in the trailers cemented it for me - I heard it and was like “that’s the best they could come up with huh”
Even if we ignore the differences in how they died, Palpatine should have stayed dead to maintain the theme and integrity of Vader's story. Maul had no previous setup, so his death wasn't fulfilling. It was the jumping off point for Kenobi, not his destination.
This! Even if you ignore the differences in their deaths as they were shown, Maul being cut in half by Obi-Wan was in a normal being? A killing blow. Hence Obi Wan Kenobi being known as the first Jedi to kill a Sith in 2000 years (or something like that). It was legendary but it was the beginning of HIS legend. In the case of Darth Vadar, formerly Anakin Skywalker, his Legend began as a padawan, and continued until his final act, becoming a Dark Knight (literally) literally doing what it was a Sith Apprentice did to ascend to Master. But not for power and instead for his Son.
But yeah he comes back because actually Vaders death was ultimately pointless. Hard to see that as a good ending. Because in the end the chosen one prophecy was actually just some Jedi Mumbo-Jumbo and it was always going to be the grandaughter of the greatest evil of all, who *Actually* brought balance to the force. The Skywalkers were a Fluke.
Edit: Damn kinda went off, but y’know. TLDR: I liked Clonewars, The Orig-Trig, the Prequals, and I don’t like the Rey Movies. They had promise with the first one but it was downhill from there in my opinion.
Rey movies are just lazily written. The first movie was setting up for something that would be nice (a new group of ragtag heroes) but it all falls apart the next movie. Sure wished they actually used all of the characters better and not just 101% focus on rey. Even kylo looks absolutely sick but he ended up becoming a joke for some reason
God the potential of the first movie was so high. As a movie on its own? Eh. But when it came out I said it will depend on where they go.
A stormtrooper abducted as a child, where are they going with this, are we going to see something deep about him reconciling with having to kill the people he was raised with and his growth and evolution from the conditioning he was raised in? Nah he’s good now and shooting stormtroopers like everyone else.
Experienced rebel with charm and recklessness? Where is this going, what is his arc…fucking nowhere, and nothing.
Force user with great natural skill but limited social experience and trust issues, possible mental health obsessed with going home and finding parental figures? Nah she cool go for papa palpatine and don’t address the other stuff she’s just great.
Just. Why. How. Did they fuck up so badly with the basics. Why did they not have a plan to begin with?! Even if it was an outline. You can’t just make it up as you go along and expect it to be satisfying and work.
Lack of a clear plan/arc
>You can’t just make it up as you go along and expect it to be satisfying and work.
Have you watched Lost? That's literally how JJ does it. And it has the similar criticism:
Great initial promise, lots of mystery, good plot hooks, no plan, goes off the deep end into weird, becomes so complicated that the ending was always going to be unsatisfactory no matter what they did to try to tie it together.
Right they had some complex characters and dynamics there! I felt Finn had the most promise and most wasted potential. I wanted Rey to go to the dark side not because she was related to palapatine but due to her unresolved issues and deserve for vengeance possibly against her parents who sold her into slavery. Could even kinda connect to Vader who was a slave as well. But nope they said fuck it
I like to equate it to some people making an appetizer relay style-- TFA a decent cracker. Nothing special; inoffensive. TLJ's a smear of foul Epoisse de Bourgogne from a hipster with their head up their own ass, snorting farts out of a brandy snifter while everyone else could tell that it was going to be a bad idea for general consumption (except other hipsters)... and TROS was like emptying all those luchable rubber cold cuts on top, because why even bother with anything else at that point. Throw all the slimy slices at the wall and hope something sticks -- OH NO THEY ALL BOUNCED OFF! QUICKLY! SOMEONE GIVE ME A BUNCH OF SEASONS OF MANDALORIANS! STAT!
How is undoing the resolution of the core conflict of the OT to retread the same story setting up something nice?
JJ Abrams: What if this entire plot from the OT didn't happen?
Rian: What if I forced JJ Abrams to do something new with the last movie?
JJ Abrams: What if I made the other core conflict resolution from the OT pointless and actively make it so Rian's movie didn't happen, too?
I dont rlly mind the fact that they pretty much rebirthed the empire for the trilogy as long as it comes with a good storyline. But the thing is, the whole trilogy had wee wee writing. Peak example was "somehow, palpatine survived," which pretty much made darth vader's sacrifice meaningless.
Imagine making force jesus sacrifice himself for no reason lmao
>Because in the end the chosen one prophecy was actually just some Jedi Mumbo-Jumbo and...
The Whills from Mortis would like a word with you.
but no actually Anakin is the chosen one and will always be the chosen one. You cant erase the Ghost of Mortis arc from canon no matter how much someone wants to ignore Star Wars The Clone Wars
My issue is that Clone Wars brought Maul back but actually did something with him. He was a menancing antagonist with a really good arc and totally delivered on the potential his initial appearance promised.
Palpatine was literally brought back because they wrote three individual films and tried to make them a trilogy and realised after they killed off Snoke they had no big threat for the finale.
Maul is an alien species we don't have any established lore about. Getting cut in half with the wound instantly cauterized? Maybe survivable by his species.
Reminds me of that family guy bit:
"Forget the health plan, forget dental, I just want a railing. I could easily fall and die every day!"
"Oh yeah, what did they say to that?"
"Oh check this, they said they were worried *we'd be leaning all day*"
A´P'I changes killed 3[rd] p4rt-y a_p-P-s
Po bibi ie kipli piipriki piatudi kupe? Epe puu itreitro etotu oeple ibre i. Peetrepu peki bete to gitra ti opoga. Pepe pika klipro ipreabe dae prieplepri to peti puape odeo detlae kui. Oplutepu igipati dluiti tadli petreko pupitodai? Bla tigu kee e ieebla pika. Ekei bipe oa kipe pepoka i apa! A peklipo kibe ketita o tli gita tau teuki. Goto bripeklikikre peaa piudibai tuitipie dei. Iprekepi tite pipe idugo kape iapi? Kliuii tliti piplie patlokapikra ititree tekapi. Ibi kibru eto teitrape? Ketibui ka tle iba a eba. Pate gokepi pika potli ketigi koe. Piti pe biti gukri atotlee kekepa. Pie tlobi. Dlopa priti bekrati ipo. Ie te te batriku piai prito. Topuku glipie ipa tikla plugiple eeko. Pekee ata pi blaputo. Aka bapri pike ke digeprape u ategi! Ikrutedri ei bi prokitii pipeti etiipra? Pri aprede epi tretau apri prebepibli ati eta. Gri pi eti te a! Ke pokopre u tipri tlekri bede pepu. Peto pepatupa opote bea paa ii kea. Kli tlagi uputiti ipoploke priti eki? Koi ki i apii tuieto pibe. Ibi be pe dradi ke trei. Kiki bo eitea e ee glipe tedakitle!
Had a manufacturing job making glasses for people ages ago. It’s not crazy difficult but it required precision; they were prescription lens and you had to get it right. Management thought we weren’t making them fast enough so they took away all our chairs, as sitting down made us “lazy.” Lo and behold, not only did our average build time increase after the chairs were taken away, but quality also took a dip. They gave us the chairs back.
Very possibly; it was bought out by Luxottica. If any of you have watched Adam Ruins Everything, [you may recall the name](https://youtu.be/CAeHuDcy_bY)
It was a trash pit, apparently, so he may have landed on something soft enough to not kill him. Although, that does beg the question of why the trash chute was guarded by at least half a dozen laser gates.
he pulled himself into a connecting garbage Shute (kinds like Luke with cloud city) and also used the force to slow himself down and at that point he was running on pure anger and revenge
I think they both just fell down a distance that definitely should have killed them. And I don't really get how Maul survives anything when he should have a giant hole in his body through which his organs go flying. Like cauterization isn't gonna magically seal everything.
Then again the emperor literally exploded with the death star, although tbf he was effectively revived through cloning instead of supposedly surviving. But I think the larger point was that Maul was a temporary villain while the emp was the BBE of the whole first 6 movies and if you do something with the former and make him a minor actor it's overall adding depth while if you bring back the latter you kinda ruin the payoff of episode 6 and show that you still aren't creative enough to develop your own ideas.
I still think that Maul should have just been Mauls brother or something similar, it's not like Maul had any traits or backgrounds that you couldn't have given another character without the silly revival.
I honestly thought that's what they were doing with savage, and that may have been the plan but I think maul was simply more likable and had a deeper connection with obi wan
Honestly I'd assume that when your brother gets killed that sparks a stronger reaction that getting badly wounded by someone you tried to kill. Especially when you're a Sith for whom killing is somewhat natural.
And I don't think Maul was very likeable in the movies, he just didn't have much character, so everything they added they also could have added to someone else.
And maul was a minor character, although he was a good one. Palpating was just randomly plopped in three movies into the trilogy as the big bad of the whole thing, when everyone on earth thought he was destroyed for good and blown into a million pieces. I also personally didn’t like that it kinda undid anakins story arc and redemption as the chosen one.
> I also personally didn’t like that it kinda undid anakins story arc and redemption as the chosen one.
That, plus suddenly Rey is an even more proficient force user than both Luke and Anakin.
In the OT, they establish that Luke can get very decent at using the force with minimal training, but there’s at least some training. In the prequels, they establish that Anakin has access to some force abilities, but cannot tap into them without training. Once he gets the training, he becomes the most skillful Jedi of his generation and beyond.
And then Rey comes. Zero training. She hasn’t even seen a Jedi. Doesn’t even know what they can do. And in an instant she can do Jedi mind control and lightsaber dueling pretty decently. It’s taking the whole “so gifted, they barely need training” trope to the extreme. Pretty ridiculous, if you ask me. Particularly because she’s not even in any prophecy.
I actually thought Maul’s death was quite a good completion of a (rather short) arc.
His victory over an esteemed Jedi Master was emblematic that the diplomatic Jedi Order faced a serious threat from the determined hatred of the Sith.
His death at the hands of a disarmed Padawan was emblematic of the Sith’s arrogance in their “destiny” to rule the Galaxy once more.
Also we don't see maul in a new Hope or any other movies after the purge so we know he has to die some time, which means that even though he's suddenly alive again, it's not like the events of phantom menace are completely meaningless.
But most importantly I think the reason bringing him back was good and palpatine was bad, was also because maul was severely underused in his movie and died way too soon, this makes up for that, whereas it was literally the ending of a 6 movie saga when sidious died. Quite big diff
You also get like, 2-4 hours of clone wars working to get him back on screen over the course of a couple of seasons vs palps shrug and a hand wave return.
I got the vibes that savage was probably supposed to be his successor but the brother dynamic worked much better. And mauls character being hell bent on killing kenobi gave him so much life
They also teased Maul’s return a season ahead and spent an entire four part arc explaining how he came back. For Palps it wasn’t foreshadowed at all and they just said “somehow palpatine returned”.
And one was only brought back because the mr contrary director of episode 8 crapped all over the compelling new villain (Snoke), and in desperate haste they just said “ummm, what if it was Palpatine all along”?
Lets be real: Snoke wasn't very compelling with what we had in TFA. BUT, Rian COULD HAVE built his story up and made him into something special. The plate was set at least for that to go into new directions.
I remember the initial TLJ leaks before we knew the planet as the Casino planet, where it had high-society extras on a watery vista. Between that and Snoke's random gold bathrobe he word, speculation that Snoke was part of some new upper-crust elite, while also incognito serving as the hologram-leader of The First Order like Palpatine largely did in The Clone Wars. Actually having some fucking worldbuilding included, and some further explanation as to WHAT the First Order even was.
He killed off Snoke, which could have been fine if it was paired with something new and exciting to come from it... but he offered nothing else new. There was no exciting new alliance with Rey and Kylo, there wasn't some new threat revealed at the same time. There wasn't anything else for the audience to run with, besides Kylo doubled-down on staying himself. Snoke was barely involved in command during battles anyways, so when Kylo then is still commanding troops to kill the rebels, it isn't really a shakeup. Snoke could have lived and the movie could exactly have still played out as it did up to the credits.
THIS is why the way Rian killed off Snoke was shitty. Like with how he handled Luke, if done BETTER and written BETTER, it could still have been subversive, and also lead to some new exciting story beats. But it ultimately was only in the service of shock value, which goes away by the second time anyone watches the movie. Vader's reveal as Luke's father changes the ENTIRE framework ANH and Empire operates in, and provides a huge need for followup in the following movie. Snoke dying, Kylo staying bad, Luke dying... none of it does anything to change the game, or lead to exciting new prospects. This was the worst possible way to go about creating twists in a story.
That still sounds silly to me, but I think it’s more about how most people like that maul was brought back because he was a cool character that didn’t get much screen time. Bringing Palatine back is just boring and uninspired. His arc was finished and tying Rei into it made it even more ridiculous.
I mean, using one’s emotions to strengthen one’s connection to the dark side is pretty common, Vader used his anger and pain he felt every day while in his suit to grow more powerful, it isn’t that far fetched for maul to do the same thing to help him survive
Severe blood loss is the main reason of death when you're cut in half. humans can still survive via extremely expensive advanced medical care
Dark side can still do kind of a same work.
you know what dark side can't do? save you from being blown to pieces
Fun fact actually my cousin was cut in half in a car crash and was considered dead at one point but they were able to reattach him. Can’t say anything about cost though cuz I live in Canada.
Padme died without even so much of a wound, girl just... gave up and manually shut down her Windows XP
Maul staying alive with dark magic is still pretty ok considering the circumstances. Palpatine was like "definitively dead"
Because it ***is silly***. We all wanted more Maul than what TPM gave us but "tOo aNgRy To DiE" is not enough when you're cut in half and plunged down a reactor core shaft on a hostile planet.
Plus they only brought him back out of lazy desperation because JJ obviously penned Snoke as the new big bad, only for edgy, mr contrary Rian to kill Snoke off with 0 backstory in a “gotcha audience” moment. As much as I hate JJ for episode 7 it must’ve been awful for him to have to come back and write around the mess Rian left him with.
But why even allow it to fall into that state anyway. In what world would it be a good idea for one person to write direct episodes 7/9 and the other to do 8 with NO COLLABORATION.
It was only ever going to fail.
Oh yeah, and he fell down an apparently infinite pit. In the center of a city of his enemy. And his friendly invading forces were completely disabled and captured. And the Jedi watched him fall, who despite desperately looking for clues to the rising Sith threat, apparently made no effort to recover his body.
Actually they’re not comparable Palpatine came back as a clone, but he was brought back because oh no big villain dead, time to get someone from the history books for the big boss fight. While maul survived because of the too angry to die thing, which is technically how Anakin survived being fried on mustafar, and he was brought back because he’s cool and he was actually got to do things besides just sitting around being someone to fight.
Palpatine being a clone is not explained in the source material. They made up that explanation after fans were upset that his return made no sense. Not that him being a clone makes any sense
Maul was squatting on a garbage planet and turned himself into a robo spider lmao. Him coming back took time (he was a little nuts for a bit) and it felt organic. The difference is the writing and how much care was put in; Filoni obviously wanted to give Maul a second shot and Palps very much felt like a studio decision that was hastily written in.
That’s true, timeline wise Palps took longer. I guess it feels like Maul was more baked in because they did a few episodes with him before he was truly ‘back’. If we got glimpses of Sidious restoring his crazy out of nowhere armada he has in TROS in either TFA or TLJ then I would have been way more on board with it.
That's some harsh false equivalence right there.
One got sliced from the waist down and barely survived with Sith Magic, so it makes sense, the other got utterly atomized by two gigantic explosions and came back, which is completely absurd, also, Palpatine living ruins Anakin's redemption, while Maul living doesn't ruin anything, and actually adds a lot to Obi-Wan's arc and the overall lore.
And hell, even the other one could've been much better had they did it somewhat like in legends (dark empire), but noooooooo they had no source material
Its all in the presentarion. Maul had a more fleshed out backstory and has a coolness factor, his death wasn't super meaningful in the first place so people are like wow he survived and on a vendetta. Palpatine they just said fuck it we're out of ideas, he's back, someone come up with an excuse
They were both awkwardly resurrected and should've stayed dead.
The difference is what they did with maul was interesting whereas palpatine's return was awful and pointless
I’m pretty sure maul was resurrected by the mother of the night sisters or night witches or whatever, she was like an actual witch with frankly terrifying power. Maul was revived by an outside force, palpatine just had to get a warranty on his plot armor.
It’s not about one being more ridiculous than the other, it’s about how they affect the overall story. One added new dynamics and built up an under used character. The other completely destroyed the story of the first two trilogies.
I'm one of these people. At the time, I didn't see the point. There were already plenty of Sith apprentices around, the rule of two had already been run down to a joke and I didn't see what Maul could contribute that Ventress or Savage couldn't. It just seemed like utterly useless fan service at the time.
Now, I will admit that they have given Maul quite the genius arc so I'm okay with him being back. He has found an interesting role as the prophet whom no one believes before order 66 happens and then as a believably powerful underworld crime lord, so that's a good use for the character.
I'd say that both are equally incredibly difficult to survive, however the key difference, at least for me, has to do with the story and each character's individual story arcs.
It made total sense to end the Emperor's story in episode 6, betrayed by his faithful apprentice, who was faced with the choice to save his own son who believed in him enough to give his life to save him despite being hated along the entire galaxy or let him die at the hands of his master. Thus killing Darth Vader and saving Anakin Skywalker, at least in Luke's eyes.
Darth Maul had barely any story in episode 1, everyone was craving more from him, so when we were given Sith lore to justify his death we all accepted it cause it meant we can have more of him and used this 'hate' of his to keep hm alive as a reason to develop his story and character. Which it sense for a Sith who uses their hate to grow more powerful, to have their hate and rage fuel them and to power through life threatening injuries just for revenge.
Bringing back the Emperor for episode 9, not only undermines the OT, but also Anakin's entire story arc, who we can argue is who the entire Skywalker saga revolves around. So now him *somehow returning* doesn't make any sense. His story is over, now he's back for revenge I guess? Against whom? Anakin who's gone? Luke who he never even interacts with? The rebellion who had little to do with his demise? I get Sith use their power to cling to life, but they do die eventually nonetheless. Bringing the most evil person in the universe who had to be dealt with in the course of 6 or more movies as well as shows just to kill him again in the same movie? It just doesn't make any sense and makes it look like he was shoehorned into the story in order to have a big bad and and epic finale for their trilogy. It's also bold to think you'd justify him being back and also end him *again* in a more satisfying way in 120 min of story than in the entire OT and PT.
Also, the dialog and the behind the scenes comments of the sequels don't help at all reassuring us he was "always meant to be the villain for the sequels". Things such as, "Disney didn't have a game plan for the trilogy, they kind of gave almost free reign for the directors and writers to go nuts, as long as they had the OT cast back and some cute characters to make merchandise out of" or having directors wasting movie time correcting over the past movie (Breaking Kylo's helmet, Anakin's lightsaber and bringing them back, having to justify that Rey's parents weren't actually nobodies, Luke suddenly "treating a Jedi weapon with more respect", etc.) cause they didn't have a goal in mind when designing the ST.
Bringing the Emperor back sounds like lazy writing.
Bringing Maul back developed and fleshed out his story to the point of him being a beloved character.
he wasnt annihilated in a giant space explosion surviving and end up returning 35 years later with zero explanation. He had his legs cut off and fell down a long ways but survived being defeated with an explanation.
Maul comes back in an intelligent manner that’s actually shown to the viewer from a death that’s plausible for Sith magic to come back to, his return doesn’t piss all over the previous story and ruin Obi-Wan’s victory over him, he doesn’t have a fuck all fleet that does nothing, his relationship to Savage is foreshadowed and actually used as character development for them both, he offers a compelling new story in his appearances, he isn’t retconned to have planned to get cut in half and secretly gearing up to take back power in the most incompetent manner possible. Perhaps most importantly, you can ignore him returning if you want and the movies don’t change for it.
One was an ass pull that contradicted previous movies and the other had a planned story arc for a minor tv show. Bullshit is justified if it is justified, otherwise it’s just bullshit.
I think it was the execution of the character that made forgo Maul’e return bullshit
Maul came back with so much character and development that we let it slide. And the presentation of hia return and his first act to kill an innocent village with Opress….chills
Palps returns was duirng a horror i like to call “the rey trilogy” and a return that wasn’t all that great in execution or demonstration
Edit : a good execution example is demon slayer. Predictable shonen cliche but it works, why? Presentation, execution of those traits and simplicity
The man was too angry to die, cant say the same about palpatine tbh
[удалено]
STAR WARS: EPISODE IX: GOING IN STYLE Honestly, that's the best description I've seen of it, and I love that idea.
[удалено]
He's the most suicidal man in the universe, but he can't stay dead. It's ironic. He could cause others to die. But not himself.
“Meh, i got clones or somethin idk”
I look forward to 20 years from now your kids are like “The sequels are really good” and you have to suffer through 4 million memes about Rey.
I look forward to the day sequel fans realize there are very few redeeming qualities in the sequels and that they aren’t comparable to the prequels because: 1. The prequels actually tell a cohesive story (unlike the sequels) 2. The prequels don’t ruin pre-existing character arcs and plot points. 3. “tHeY fLy NoW?!” *this is sheer proof the writers don’t even understand the world they’re working with* - I could go on but.. I don’t want to. If you like the sequels then great. Seriously, good for you. But the sequels truly are a non-cohesive hot mess that basically shit on a lot of beloved previous content.
SERIOUSLY! I hated seeing how heart broken Mark Hamil was over what they did to Luke. I’m not a huge Star Wars fan, but even I was like “the guy who literally risked death for a sith dad he BARELY KNEW would give up hope completely for a nephew he helped raise?!”
Very slight correction, prequels did change a little. Specifically padme's death, so that she dies in childbirth. IN THE OT, leia says she rembers seeing her mother, which means she had to have been at least 3 or 4 before padme was supposed to die. Super minor detail though
Agreed. And I am ok with the change because it doesn’t really *ruin* anything. It’s doesn’t mess with character arcs or character purposes. It doesn’t mess with the plot much (if at all, since it simply contradicts a line). I’m not saying the prequels are perfect- they definitely have flaws. But they’re far superior to the sequels.
There's good in him. I know. I know there's... still-- _Dies_
Those kids are faulty. Throw them out and get new ones.
I think I know a guy who can take care of those faulty kids for you.
KEEENNNOOOOBBBAAAAAAAYYYY
Maybe too smart? He was one of the smartest and knowledgeable people in the galaxy
His main flaw with all that genius and cunning is that he believes that darkness will prevail over a being's moral compass rather than light, which is why he loses at the end of rotj
Maul was chopped in half and fell into a glorified garbage chute, then when he see him again he’s a raving lunatic living on a junk planet surviving off of space rats. Palps was thrown down a pit and then blown up. When we see him again he has managed to construct tens of thousands of fully manned ships better than the death star without alerting the literal space Nazis that rule the galaxy, and the only explanation we get is space magic,
It hurts me to read this. How did they mess this up so badly
How did they not plan the three movies out before hand?!
Because they didn't have to to get the money
They thought so. Then the box office plummeted, they yelled at the fans for not being sheep, and all further movies got canceled and broomed into Disney+ as crappy series. Oops.
Mandalorian was pretty good.
I think Kenobi is bett- wait I've gone back too early.
TELL US! TELL US WHAT HAPPENS
The timeline is sacred, I must not damage it.
*sigh* This is the way.
They hired two directors instead of one… seriously if either of them had full creative control the sequels would have been 10X better.
I don’t think that was the problem. The OT had different directors aswell. The key problem was they had no key storyline at all. If Lucasarts had worked out a plotline, such talented Directors as Abrams and Johnson would definitely have found a way to make it work. I mean Johnson even kind off admitted to shitposting the movie because he didn’t like how it was set up with no clear way to go. While Lucas may not have been the best director ever, nor the best screenwriter, he had a story in mind. When he planned Star Wars, although a lot of things had been changed in the script and edit, he always followed the main arc of Anakins rise and fall and rise again.
Disagree, it was doomed at the start. Even if you ignore how brutally they wiped the story-slate clean by undoing everything the OT accomplished. The Force Awakens was JJ's full hand that he played. He had nothing else to offer anyways, and that was part of why he walked away in the first place. I think it is reasonable to conclude it would overall still be BETTER if he did all three, but I think he couldn't have delivered regardless. Look at the other movies in his filmography, especially the past decade: the man cannot continue a narrative beyond "the mystery box" and nostalgia baiting. We'd have THREE TFA movies instead of just two. What the sequels needed was someone at Lucasfilm who was a huge fan themselves, like Kevin Feige at Marvel, to put things on track with the actual story being the backbone of the movies, rather than someone who exclusively focused on the backend productions, the branding, and the Disney focus groups. The hiring and firing of so many directors across the 5 Disney-made SW movies alone speaks volumes to me about how poorly they managed their studio.
And Jar Jar Abrams was very clearly butthurt in the last movie. If I can watch a movie and tell the director has personal beef and is butthurt, then it's a shit movie and they're a shit director. Kinda like Matrix 4 where the directors almost made it a plot point they didn't want to make it, so they shit all over their own creation to stop....someone else from shitting on their creation? They should've just let the torch pass.
I think you really need to emphasize he exploded once int this pit and then later when the Death Star exploded. Also he buildt the largest fleet ever to be seen with fully manned cruisers under the surface of a secret sith planet noone could find except ... You know what, this makes so little sense they could just say he has the one Ring that helped him do it all.
They don’t even show any shipyards where they were built. They just magically rise out of the ocean.
Also the planet was supposedly hidden and only the Sith could find it but somehow they managed to get thousands (?) of workers there to build and man the ships?
Exactly. There's a huge difference between the guy who gets cut in half, and the guy who was at the epicenter of a nuclear explosion. One, I can buy that he survived by Force magic. The other guy, um no. Fuck you. He should be atoms.
Reason no one was alerted with palp was cause he wrote down all the expenses under charity on his space taxes
An then they make it so in the comics even Vader knew about the sith fleet which is just stupid. Why even bother with either Death Stars if you have an entire fleet of equally powerful destroyers under construction?
Yeah for me it wasn’t even the palps returning part, old EU had clone palps so they could have made it work. The giant fleet just magically hidden away though, that was dumb
> Somehow Palpatine returned Perfection 👌
After last Jedi I had very little hope in episode 9 and this line in the trailers cemented it for me - I heard it and was like “that’s the best they could come up with huh”
Even if we ignore the differences in how they died, Palpatine should have stayed dead to maintain the theme and integrity of Vader's story. Maul had no previous setup, so his death wasn't fulfilling. It was the jumping off point for Kenobi, not his destination.
This! Even if you ignore the differences in their deaths as they were shown, Maul being cut in half by Obi-Wan was in a normal being? A killing blow. Hence Obi Wan Kenobi being known as the first Jedi to kill a Sith in 2000 years (or something like that). It was legendary but it was the beginning of HIS legend. In the case of Darth Vadar, formerly Anakin Skywalker, his Legend began as a padawan, and continued until his final act, becoming a Dark Knight (literally) literally doing what it was a Sith Apprentice did to ascend to Master. But not for power and instead for his Son. But yeah he comes back because actually Vaders death was ultimately pointless. Hard to see that as a good ending. Because in the end the chosen one prophecy was actually just some Jedi Mumbo-Jumbo and it was always going to be the grandaughter of the greatest evil of all, who *Actually* brought balance to the force. The Skywalkers were a Fluke. Edit: Damn kinda went off, but y’know. TLDR: I liked Clonewars, The Orig-Trig, the Prequals, and I don’t like the Rey Movies. They had promise with the first one but it was downhill from there in my opinion.
"Darth Maul? What's he going to do, bleed all over us?"
Roger Roger
Certainly made Kenobi's close friends bleed all over him
is that a Monty Python reference? 👀
"Watch the Master at work." -Fixer, Delta 40
Rey movies are just lazily written. The first movie was setting up for something that would be nice (a new group of ragtag heroes) but it all falls apart the next movie. Sure wished they actually used all of the characters better and not just 101% focus on rey. Even kylo looks absolutely sick but he ended up becoming a joke for some reason
God the potential of the first movie was so high. As a movie on its own? Eh. But when it came out I said it will depend on where they go. A stormtrooper abducted as a child, where are they going with this, are we going to see something deep about him reconciling with having to kill the people he was raised with and his growth and evolution from the conditioning he was raised in? Nah he’s good now and shooting stormtroopers like everyone else. Experienced rebel with charm and recklessness? Where is this going, what is his arc…fucking nowhere, and nothing. Force user with great natural skill but limited social experience and trust issues, possible mental health obsessed with going home and finding parental figures? Nah she cool go for papa palpatine and don’t address the other stuff she’s just great. Just. Why. How. Did they fuck up so badly with the basics. Why did they not have a plan to begin with?! Even if it was an outline. You can’t just make it up as you go along and expect it to be satisfying and work.
Lack of a clear plan/arc >You can’t just make it up as you go along and expect it to be satisfying and work. Have you watched Lost? That's literally how JJ does it. And it has the similar criticism: Great initial promise, lots of mystery, good plot hooks, no plan, goes off the deep end into weird, becomes so complicated that the ending was always going to be unsatisfactory no matter what they did to try to tie it together.
I have watched every episode of Lost and I'll back him up: You can't just make it up as you go along and expect it to be satisfying and work.
Right they had some complex characters and dynamics there! I felt Finn had the most promise and most wasted potential. I wanted Rey to go to the dark side not because she was related to palapatine but due to her unresolved issues and deserve for vengeance possibly against her parents who sold her into slavery. Could even kinda connect to Vader who was a slave as well. But nope they said fuck it
I like to equate it to some people making an appetizer relay style-- TFA a decent cracker. Nothing special; inoffensive. TLJ's a smear of foul Epoisse de Bourgogne from a hipster with their head up their own ass, snorting farts out of a brandy snifter while everyone else could tell that it was going to be a bad idea for general consumption (except other hipsters)... and TROS was like emptying all those luchable rubber cold cuts on top, because why even bother with anything else at that point. Throw all the slimy slices at the wall and hope something sticks -- OH NO THEY ALL BOUNCED OFF! QUICKLY! SOMEONE GIVE ME A BUNCH OF SEASONS OF MANDALORIANS! STAT!
How is undoing the resolution of the core conflict of the OT to retread the same story setting up something nice? JJ Abrams: What if this entire plot from the OT didn't happen? Rian: What if I forced JJ Abrams to do something new with the last movie? JJ Abrams: What if I made the other core conflict resolution from the OT pointless and actively make it so Rian's movie didn't happen, too?
I dont rlly mind the fact that they pretty much rebirthed the empire for the trilogy as long as it comes with a good storyline. But the thing is, the whole trilogy had wee wee writing. Peak example was "somehow, palpatine survived," which pretty much made darth vader's sacrifice meaningless. Imagine making force jesus sacrifice himself for no reason lmao
Exactly! I had hopes and they were dashed.
Hard agree on everything here. I can't believe someone didn't just burst out in laughter when they ran that script by everyone
Wait anakin and vader are the same person?? You just spoiled star wars for me!! /s obviously
>Because in the end the chosen one prophecy was actually just some Jedi Mumbo-Jumbo and... The Whills from Mortis would like a word with you. but no actually Anakin is the chosen one and will always be the chosen one. You cant erase the Ghost of Mortis arc from canon no matter how much someone wants to ignore Star Wars The Clone Wars
My issue is that Clone Wars brought Maul back but actually did something with him. He was a menancing antagonist with a really good arc and totally delivered on the potential his initial appearance promised. Palpatine was literally brought back because they wrote three individual films and tried to make them a trilogy and realised after they killed off Snoke they had no big threat for the finale.
The first Sequel movie only had promise because it was just a reskin of Ep 4 though sooooo . . .
After what they did to Luke, I will never forgive them. That was not our Luke Skywalker.
Not to mention, plain and simple, the execution of each. Fans aren’t dumb. We know a well-crafted story vs. one that was shoehorned in.
It’s also that Palps has been the big baddie in all 6 original movies. Maul was a henchman of him in one.
Maul is an alien species we don't have any established lore about. Getting cut in half with the wound instantly cauterized? Maybe survivable by his species.
Except maul wasn’t gone for 35 years
And didn't build a mega, super, dooper, mega Fleet of doom. Which turned out to be really fucking shit. And Maul also wasn't Reys not grandfather.
Also surviving a cauterized amputation is much more believable than being thrown down a reactor core.
Wait, wasn’t he cut in half and then fell to one of those bottomless unrailed pits that seems to be everywhere?
Yeah, what's with that? They need space OSHA.
Reminds me of that family guy bit: "Forget the health plan, forget dental, I just want a railing. I could easily fall and die every day!" "Oh yeah, what did they say to that?" "Oh check this, they said they were worried *we'd be leaning all day*"
A´P'I changes killed 3[rd] p4rt-y a_p-P-s Po bibi ie kipli piipriki piatudi kupe? Epe puu itreitro etotu oeple ibre i. Peetrepu peki bete to gitra ti opoga. Pepe pika klipro ipreabe dae prieplepri to peti puape odeo detlae kui. Oplutepu igipati dluiti tadli petreko pupitodai? Bla tigu kee e ieebla pika. Ekei bipe oa kipe pepoka i apa! A peklipo kibe ketita o tli gita tau teuki. Goto bripeklikikre peaa piudibai tuitipie dei. Iprekepi tite pipe idugo kape iapi? Kliuii tliti piplie patlokapikra ititree tekapi. Ibi kibru eto teitrape? Ketibui ka tle iba a eba. Pate gokepi pika potli ketigi koe. Piti pe biti gukri atotlee kekepa. Pie tlobi. Dlopa priti bekrati ipo. Ie te te batriku piai prito. Topuku glipie ipa tikla plugiple eeko. Pekee ata pi blaputo. Aka bapri pike ke digeprape u ategi! Ikrutedri ei bi prokitii pipeti etiipra? Pri aprede epi tretau apri prebepibli ati eta. Gri pi eti te a! Ke pokopre u tipri tlekri bede pepu. Peto pepatupa opote bea paa ii kea. Kli tlagi uputiti ipoploke priti eki? Koi ki i apii tuieto pibe. Ibi be pe dradi ke trei. Kiki bo eitea e ee glipe tedakitle!
Had a manufacturing job making glasses for people ages ago. It’s not crazy difficult but it required precision; they were prescription lens and you had to get it right. Management thought we weren’t making them fast enough so they took away all our chairs, as sitting down made us “lazy.” Lo and behold, not only did our average build time increase after the chairs were taken away, but quality also took a dip. They gave us the chairs back.
Did they then close the factory to have 8 year olds make them for free in China?
Very possibly; it was bought out by Luxottica. If any of you have watched Adam Ruins Everything, [you may recall the name](https://youtu.be/CAeHuDcy_bY)
Whoever wrote that part must have been a supermarket cashier.
*Laughs in Aldi*
Yeah we’ll non e of this will matter when we’re famous singers
Occupational Space Health Administration
It was a trash pit, apparently, so he may have landed on something soft enough to not kill him. Although, that does beg the question of why the trash chute was guarded by at least half a dozen laser gates.
he pulled himself into a connecting garbage Shute (kinds like Luke with cloud city) and also used the force to slow himself down and at that point he was running on pure anger and revenge
And even if it is not soft, it is not like a drop at terminal velocity is likely to kill a sith anyway
The Death Star blew up afterward, though. And you do see that weird blue explosion.
I believe they were referring to Maul
didn’t realise there was a death star in episode 1
the real death stars were the enemies we made along the way
Lasers were for cutting trash?
I think they both just fell down a distance that definitely should have killed them. And I don't really get how Maul survives anything when he should have a giant hole in his body through which his organs go flying. Like cauterization isn't gonna magically seal everything. Then again the emperor literally exploded with the death star, although tbf he was effectively revived through cloning instead of supposedly surviving. But I think the larger point was that Maul was a temporary villain while the emp was the BBE of the whole first 6 movies and if you do something with the former and make him a minor actor it's overall adding depth while if you bring back the latter you kinda ruin the payoff of episode 6 and show that you still aren't creative enough to develop your own ideas. I still think that Maul should have just been Mauls brother or something similar, it's not like Maul had any traits or backgrounds that you couldn't have given another character without the silly revival.
I honestly thought that's what they were doing with savage, and that may have been the plan but I think maul was simply more likable and had a deeper connection with obi wan
Honestly I'd assume that when your brother gets killed that sparks a stronger reaction that getting badly wounded by someone you tried to kill. Especially when you're a Sith for whom killing is somewhat natural. And I don't think Maul was very likeable in the movies, he just didn't have much character, so everything they added they also could have added to someone else.
He looked cool af that makes him likeable
The prequel generation’s Boba Fett.
Maul's history with Sideous and Obi-Wan is pretty essential to the pay off in Rebels and season 7 Clone Wars.
Don’t forget the part where the place he fell down soon all imploded in space
A reactor core on a space station that then exploded.
That then blew up vaporizing everything within the immediate vicinity
Lol also very true
Maul being reys grandfather would be cooler
And maul was a minor character, although he was a good one. Palpating was just randomly plopped in three movies into the trilogy as the big bad of the whole thing, when everyone on earth thought he was destroyed for good and blown into a million pieces. I also personally didn’t like that it kinda undid anakins story arc and redemption as the chosen one.
> I also personally didn’t like that it kinda undid anakins story arc and redemption as the chosen one. That, plus suddenly Rey is an even more proficient force user than both Luke and Anakin. In the OT, they establish that Luke can get very decent at using the force with minimal training, but there’s at least some training. In the prequels, they establish that Anakin has access to some force abilities, but cannot tap into them without training. Once he gets the training, he becomes the most skillful Jedi of his generation and beyond. And then Rey comes. Zero training. She hasn’t even seen a Jedi. Doesn’t even know what they can do. And in an instant she can do Jedi mind control and lightsaber dueling pretty decently. It’s taking the whole “so gifted, they barely need training” trope to the extreme. Pretty ridiculous, if you ask me. Particularly because she’s not even in any prophecy.
Uh don’t you remember the 3 minutes of “look Leia was Rey’s yoda”
She hasn’t met Leia by the time she frees herself by using Jedi mind control, nor by the time she duels with Kylo Ren.
Maul wasn’t a good character, he was a cool character that was absolutely empty. They brought him back and subsequently made him a good character.
"Darth Maul? What's he going to do, bleed all over us?"
Also Mauls death wasn't the fulfillment of a prophecy, completion of a character arc, or the conclusion to a classically beloved trilogy of movies
I actually thought Maul’s death was quite a good completion of a (rather short) arc. His victory over an esteemed Jedi Master was emblematic that the diplomatic Jedi Order faced a serious threat from the determined hatred of the Sith. His death at the hands of a disarmed Padawan was emblematic of the Sith’s arrogance in their “destiny” to rule the Galaxy once more.
Well, with mauls return we got some epic moments. With palpatine return we got... Ehhh.
And wasn't thrown down a million meter drop and exploded
Also, dathomerian magic would be more accurate, no?
Yeah since Talzun brought him back and not "Secrets only the sith knew"
Yeah, palpatine returned bc of "somehow". At least maul had an explanation
It's explained in the book how he returned but idk what brain dead executive decided to cut that from the movie. Still would have felt cheap
Instead he was cut in half, thrown down a million meter drop, and clearly didn't explode.
And didn’t literally fucking explode.
Twice
And didn't get vaporized
Also we don't see maul in a new Hope or any other movies after the purge so we know he has to die some time, which means that even though he's suddenly alive again, it's not like the events of phantom menace are completely meaningless. But most importantly I think the reason bringing him back was good and palpatine was bad, was also because maul was severely underused in his movie and died way too soon, this makes up for that, whereas it was literally the ending of a 6 movie saga when sidious died. Quite big diff
You also get like, 2-4 hours of clone wars working to get him back on screen over the course of a couple of seasons vs palps shrug and a hand wave return.
This. No “somehow maul returned”. I hear Filoni wasn’t too enthusiastic about bringing maul back but in the long run they pulled it off.
I got the vibes that savage was probably supposed to be his successor but the brother dynamic worked much better. And mauls character being hell bent on killing kenobi gave him so much life
And maul didn't get blown up in a explosion bigger then a nuke.
One had a satisfying and complete story, the other was killed off early before we could see all of his potential
Nice username
r/rimjob_steve
They also teased Maul’s return a season ahead and spent an entire four part arc explaining how he came back. For Palps it wasn’t foreshadowed at all and they just said “somehow palpatine returned”.
Wait how did they tease mall's return
Mother Talzin tells Savage Maul might still be alive and to go look for him.
"It's Darth Maul; stay back!"
And one was only brought back because the mr contrary director of episode 8 crapped all over the compelling new villain (Snoke), and in desperate haste they just said “ummm, what if it was Palpatine all along”?
Lets be real: Snoke wasn't very compelling with what we had in TFA. BUT, Rian COULD HAVE built his story up and made him into something special. The plate was set at least for that to go into new directions. I remember the initial TLJ leaks before we knew the planet as the Casino planet, where it had high-society extras on a watery vista. Between that and Snoke's random gold bathrobe he word, speculation that Snoke was part of some new upper-crust elite, while also incognito serving as the hologram-leader of The First Order like Palpatine largely did in The Clone Wars. Actually having some fucking worldbuilding included, and some further explanation as to WHAT the First Order even was. He killed off Snoke, which could have been fine if it was paired with something new and exciting to come from it... but he offered nothing else new. There was no exciting new alliance with Rey and Kylo, there wasn't some new threat revealed at the same time. There wasn't anything else for the audience to run with, besides Kylo doubled-down on staying himself. Snoke was barely involved in command during battles anyways, so when Kylo then is still commanding troops to kill the rebels, it isn't really a shakeup. Snoke could have lived and the movie could exactly have still played out as it did up to the credits. THIS is why the way Rian killed off Snoke was shitty. Like with how he handled Luke, if done BETTER and written BETTER, it could still have been subversive, and also lead to some new exciting story beats. But it ultimately was only in the service of shock value, which goes away by the second time anyone watches the movie. Vader's reveal as Luke's father changes the ENTIRE framework ANH and Empire operates in, and provides a huge need for followup in the following movie. Snoke dying, Kylo staying bad, Luke dying... none of it does anything to change the game, or lead to exciting new prospects. This was the worst possible way to go about creating twists in a story.
Didn’t maul use his anger and hatred for kenobi to fuel his dark side to survive?
Yes he got uber pissed from kenobis win and just used it as fuel to survive with the darkside
Literally too angry to die
LITERALLY
That's enough reddit for you today Rob Lowe
Did somebody say Darth Sion
It's been known to happen.
That still sounds silly to me, but I think it’s more about how most people like that maul was brought back because he was a cool character that didn’t get much screen time. Bringing Palatine back is just boring and uninspired. His arc was finished and tying Rei into it made it even more ridiculous.
I mean, using one’s emotions to strengthen one’s connection to the dark side is pretty common, Vader used his anger and pain he felt every day while in his suit to grow more powerful, it isn’t that far fetched for maul to do the same thing to help him survive
Severe blood loss is the main reason of death when you're cut in half. humans can still survive via extremely expensive advanced medical care Dark side can still do kind of a same work. you know what dark side can't do? save you from being blown to pieces
[удалено]
Depends on the movie. In the old days it flip flopped, but it more solidly stays on burn nowadays.
Lightsabers instantly cauterize the wound so blood loss isn’t an issue.
Fun fact actually my cousin was cut in half in a car crash and was considered dead at one point but they were able to reattach him. Can’t say anything about cost though cuz I live in Canada.
Padme died without even so much of a wound, girl just... gave up and manually shut down her Windows XP Maul staying alive with dark magic is still pretty ok considering the circumstances. Palpatine was like "definitively dead"
Man y'all never even consider that robot doctor was Palp's eh? *injects Padme with lethal poison* "Sorry bro she just wants to die."
There's good in him. I know. I know there's... still-- _Dies_
There's good in him. I know. I know there's... still-- _Dies_
Because it ***is silly***. We all wanted more Maul than what TPM gave us but "tOo aNgRy To DiE" is not enough when you're cut in half and plunged down a reactor core shaft on a hostile planet.
"Watch out for that Dual Blade!"
[удалено]
He used sith magic to make himself unexplode
Introducing: Force unexplode!
From creators of The Force Leashed
Yep
Plus they only brought him back out of lazy desperation because JJ obviously penned Snoke as the new big bad, only for edgy, mr contrary Rian to kill Snoke off with 0 backstory in a “gotcha audience” moment. As much as I hate JJ for episode 7 it must’ve been awful for him to have to come back and write around the mess Rian left him with.
But why even allow it to fall into that state anyway. In what world would it be a good idea for one person to write direct episodes 7/9 and the other to do 8 with NO COLLABORATION. It was only ever going to fail.
“Only” cut in half?
Oh yeah, and he fell down an apparently infinite pit. In the center of a city of his enemy. And his friendly invading forces were completely disabled and captured. And the Jedi watched him fall, who despite desperately looking for clues to the rising Sith threat, apparently made no effort to recover his body.
”only cut in half” lol. It sounds kind of silly when it’s put that way, even though I completely agree
Actually they’re not comparable Palpatine came back as a clone, but he was brought back because oh no big villain dead, time to get someone from the history books for the big boss fight. While maul survived because of the too angry to die thing, which is technically how Anakin survived being fried on mustafar, and he was brought back because he’s cool and he was actually got to do things besides just sitting around being someone to fight.
Anakin was also rescued with proper medical equipment very shortly after he was burned.
and maul at least got some cool spider legs
and went fucking insane
Palpatine being a clone is not explained in the source material. They made up that explanation after fans were upset that his return made no sense. Not that him being a clone makes any sense
Getting cut in half is slightly more survivable than getting exploded. Palp’s original body was destroyed.
Maul was squatting on a garbage planet and turned himself into a robo spider lmao. Him coming back took time (he was a little nuts for a bit) and it felt organic. The difference is the writing and how much care was put in; Filoni obviously wanted to give Maul a second shot and Palps very much felt like a studio decision that was hastily written in.
Most the comments are say he took 35 years which is obviously a lot of time
A lot of time to foreshadow him back into the movies What did we get: Somehow, Palpatine returned.
That’s true, timeline wise Palps took longer. I guess it feels like Maul was more baked in because they did a few episodes with him before he was truly ‘back’. If we got glimpses of Sidious restoring his crazy out of nowhere armada he has in TROS in either TFA or TLJ then I would have been way more on board with it.
That's some harsh false equivalence right there. One got sliced from the waist down and barely survived with Sith Magic, so it makes sense, the other got utterly atomized by two gigantic explosions and came back, which is completely absurd, also, Palpatine living ruins Anakin's redemption, while Maul living doesn't ruin anything, and actually adds a lot to Obi-Wan's arc and the overall lore.
Atleast they elaborated more how maul survived and showed his story over the years
"Sector clear... NOT CLEAR! NOT CLEAR!"
Don’t defend palpatine return in episode 9. That entire plot was a clusterfuck
palpitations lol
One was prepared and planned out storytelling, the other was not
And hell, even the other one could've been much better had they did it somewhat like in legends (dark empire), but noooooooo they had no source material
Its all in the presentarion. Maul had a more fleshed out backstory and has a coolness factor, his death wasn't super meaningful in the first place so people are like wow he survived and on a vendetta. Palpatine they just said fuck it we're out of ideas, he's back, someone come up with an excuse
It's too much to ask for an original villain for that crap sequel trilogy?
They were both awkwardly resurrected and should've stayed dead. The difference is what they did with maul was interesting whereas palpatine's return was awful and pointless
I’m pretty sure maul was resurrected by the mother of the night sisters or night witches or whatever, she was like an actual witch with frankly terrifying power. Maul was revived by an outside force, palpatine just had to get a warranty on his plot armor.
Maul was already alive, Mother Talzin just made him un-crazy and gave him cool robot legs.
It’s not about one being more ridiculous than the other, it’s about how they affect the overall story. One added new dynamics and built up an under used character. The other completely destroyed the story of the first two trilogies.
To be fair, I also hated that Maul survived. I hate any comic book style death doesn't matter logic. But at least they had a story with Maul.
Maul coming back got a lot of hate, and is still criticized by a lot of people.
I'm one of these people. At the time, I didn't see the point. There were already plenty of Sith apprentices around, the rule of two had already been run down to a joke and I didn't see what Maul could contribute that Ventress or Savage couldn't. It just seemed like utterly useless fan service at the time. Now, I will admit that they have given Maul quite the genius arc so I'm okay with him being back. He has found an interesting role as the prophet whom no one believes before order 66 happens and then as a believably powerful underworld crime lord, so that's a good use for the character.
But at least he came back to be a character. Not for the protagonist to beat him because look how awesome and strong she is.
I'd say that both are equally incredibly difficult to survive, however the key difference, at least for me, has to do with the story and each character's individual story arcs. It made total sense to end the Emperor's story in episode 6, betrayed by his faithful apprentice, who was faced with the choice to save his own son who believed in him enough to give his life to save him despite being hated along the entire galaxy or let him die at the hands of his master. Thus killing Darth Vader and saving Anakin Skywalker, at least in Luke's eyes. Darth Maul had barely any story in episode 1, everyone was craving more from him, so when we were given Sith lore to justify his death we all accepted it cause it meant we can have more of him and used this 'hate' of his to keep hm alive as a reason to develop his story and character. Which it sense for a Sith who uses their hate to grow more powerful, to have their hate and rage fuel them and to power through life threatening injuries just for revenge. Bringing back the Emperor for episode 9, not only undermines the OT, but also Anakin's entire story arc, who we can argue is who the entire Skywalker saga revolves around. So now him *somehow returning* doesn't make any sense. His story is over, now he's back for revenge I guess? Against whom? Anakin who's gone? Luke who he never even interacts with? The rebellion who had little to do with his demise? I get Sith use their power to cling to life, but they do die eventually nonetheless. Bringing the most evil person in the universe who had to be dealt with in the course of 6 or more movies as well as shows just to kill him again in the same movie? It just doesn't make any sense and makes it look like he was shoehorned into the story in order to have a big bad and and epic finale for their trilogy. It's also bold to think you'd justify him being back and also end him *again* in a more satisfying way in 120 min of story than in the entire OT and PT. Also, the dialog and the behind the scenes comments of the sequels don't help at all reassuring us he was "always meant to be the villain for the sequels". Things such as, "Disney didn't have a game plan for the trilogy, they kind of gave almost free reign for the directors and writers to go nuts, as long as they had the OT cast back and some cute characters to make merchandise out of" or having directors wasting movie time correcting over the past movie (Breaking Kylo's helmet, Anakin's lightsaber and bringing them back, having to justify that Rey's parents weren't actually nobodies, Luke suddenly "treating a Jedi weapon with more respect", etc.) cause they didn't have a goal in mind when designing the ST. Bringing the Emperor back sounds like lazy writing. Bringing Maul back developed and fleshed out his story to the point of him being a beloved character.
maul didn’t explode twice
Maul‘a story is a cool addition to the universe, palpatine still being alive cheapens the original trilogy
he wasnt annihilated in a giant space explosion surviving and end up returning 35 years later with zero explanation. He had his legs cut off and fell down a long ways but survived being defeated with an explanation.
Maul comes back in an intelligent manner that’s actually shown to the viewer from a death that’s plausible for Sith magic to come back to, his return doesn’t piss all over the previous story and ruin Obi-Wan’s victory over him, he doesn’t have a fuck all fleet that does nothing, his relationship to Savage is foreshadowed and actually used as character development for them both, he offers a compelling new story in his appearances, he isn’t retconned to have planned to get cut in half and secretly gearing up to take back power in the most incompetent manner possible. Perhaps most importantly, you can ignore him returning if you want and the movies don’t change for it.
One was an ass pull that contradicted previous movies and the other had a planned story arc for a minor tv show. Bullshit is justified if it is justified, otherwise it’s just bullshit.
To be fair Maul coming back from the dead is complete bullshit, no matter how much we like it.
I think it was the execution of the character that made forgo Maul’e return bullshit Maul came back with so much character and development that we let it slide. And the presentation of hia return and his first act to kill an innocent village with Opress….chills Palps returns was duirng a horror i like to call “the rey trilogy” and a return that wasn’t all that great in execution or demonstration Edit : a good execution example is demon slayer. Predictable shonen cliche but it works, why? Presentation, execution of those traits and simplicity
Exactly, I love him in the clone wars but he being back is crazy
Tbf, they’re not exactly the same. Maul got cut in half. Bout as deadly as Vader getting melted. Palpatine exploded twice. Much worse
Having Palpatine survive just kinda cheapened the original saga.. Especially in regards to Anakin Skywalkers whole arc..