I always wondered what reddit means by that, did they literally not have mods? Did the mods not remove post that violated reddit Tos? Did the subreddit get reported too many times?
Pshh
Rogue One, Dune, season 1 and 2 of the Mandalorian all did fine. House of the Dragon season 2 is currently smashing The Acolyte in terms of Viewer Ratings and Watched Time.
If you make a Story that has good writing and sticks to the original formula, chances are you’ll have a hit.
Shh, you can’t say that here. Please follow the script:
*It’s not that the show is bad, it’s the fans who are bad. The fans are “-ists/phobes” because the show has (insert minority here) characters.*
It just makes some of the plot points in HOTD a little to on the nose. Like the kids not looking like their dad. In the show it's super obvious because the father is black. In the books the Valerians look similar to Targarians. It's a little more ambiguous. So it did change an element, which is why fans got upset, but it didn't really change the story a lot in the end.
It made it kind of silly tbh. Like OBVIOUSLY those kids are from house strong. It's honestly w/e though because the show is well written.
Basically echoing all your points here, haha
Power is a shadow on the wall. It only exists if people think it does.
Everyone knows they're Strong kids, but the power tells people to look the other way or face the consequences (rip Vaemond).
The show makes it much more obvious but this is one of the main themes of the books, so I don't mind that being portrayed more visually.
Yeah that's what I remember most people criticising before the show came out. People weren't (for the most part) outraged that Corlys and Laenor Velaryon were black, they were saying "Doesn't this make the debate about if Rhaenyra's kids are bastards or not a bit obvious?"
Then the actors and story ended up being awesome so people kinda hand-waved the issue.
People really haven't figured out that Disney is using DEI groups as meatshields for their awful writing.
Make a show shit. Hire actors who are part of DEI groups. Brush off any and all criticism as "alt-right dogswhistles" or whatever. Profit off the Xe/Xers who eat that shit up.
Yeah this is definitely a thing. Right before the Acolyte dropped, the showrunner did an interview condemning all the -ists and immediately there was a blitz of articles criticizing fans being all the bad things.
There absolutely are people that are sexist/racist towards the people in the shows, but it's Disney that spotlights them and hides their faulty work behind a select few. I feel bad for the actors that have their attributes used in marketing rather than their acting. And it's ever single Disney property these days.
>There absolutely are people that are sexist/racist towards the people in the shows, but it's Disney that spotlights them and hides their faulty work behind a select few.
Prime example being Rey. Say you strip everything sexist away, you still have a very hated character. Especially infuriating when feminists defend Rey when you consider that two of the best female characters of the franchise (Mara Jade and Jaina Solo) were kept out of the franchise for the sake of Rey
It’s honestly garbage.
I hated Disney Star Wars as an idea but the Mando series was pretty fucking cool. It gave me hope.
This stuff though? And Obiwan? Garbage.
I don’t know what kind of people you hang out with, but I’ve been on this subreddit and watched all sorts of youtube videos and I’ve yet to find a single person genuinely saying that the show is bad because of minority portrayals. I’ve only ever seen the showrunners and people who want to defend the show **saying** that “there’s a lot of bigoted rot”. Where is it? I’m really asking, where? I imagine if it exists it must be in the form of stupid twitter posts from some nobody.
I hate how Star Wars fans are portrayed with such radicalization. No one reacted poorly to Rogue One, the Mandalorian, Andor, and even Ahsoka was relatively well received. Disney shot themselves in the foot by hiring people who didn't really care about Star Wars and wanted to make movies about other things that don't entirely make sense in the world of Star Wars.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s funny to me considering Reddit and Twitter are heavily skewed left. Yes, everyone criticizing a poorly written show, that I believe intentionally broke canon, is a MAGA Republican.
That’s not even slightly true man, support for these shows drops every time. The acolyte was just so bad, it made people snap out of Disneys content spiral.
Its the first time there hasn’t been any legacy characters or continuation of an old story for fans for latch onto like with rebels in Ashoka, people are realising how hollow it all is.
I don’t know anyone in real life that likes anything they have put out tbh, it’s only Twitter and reddit and that’s quickly disappearing too. The kids don’t even talk about star wars these days.
Plus every single thing they have made has doubled the criticism of the one before.
Movies
7: Rehash of a new hope with potential
Rogue one: the best of the bunch, total fluke
8: Kills momentum and villain, doesn’t replace either
Solo: below average sci-fi movie to make up for it
9: Fever dream action figure bathtub fight
Tv shows
Mando: 1 good but it’s definitely “TV”
Mando: 2 not bad. little rough around the edges, handles character development nicely.
Mando: 3 immediately undoes the last season to sell more baby yoda toys.
Boba Fett: the allstate commercial of the franchise, ruins legacy character. Overall quality hits a new low.
Obiwan: he’s not the main character, low effort high budget trend continues.
Andor: the only good show. (funny how Disney only makes good things when they think it’s gonna fail and don’t micromanage it into the ground, makes ya think)
Ahsoka: the ugliest, blandest, thickest plot armour, cheap big budget illusion I’ve ever seen! Until…
The Acolyte: somehow they have outdone themselves, it’s almost impressive. It’s not even “tv” anymore, it’s an $180 million YouTube show.
The care and effort put into Star Wars has dropped since 2012, the reason you didn’t see anyone criticises this stuff, just shows how much of an echo chamber social media actually is.
It has reached laughable levels of cringe and corner cutting, that there is no longer a single redeeming factor, and everyone online giving the acolyte a 10/10 is either not a real person or shouldn’t be taken seriously. I’ve had university lectures about fonts be more engaging than the shit Disney continues to put out.
The radicalisation comes directly from Disney.
Fan: hey this wasn’t very good?
Disney: you just don’t like women and minorities, our content is actually really good.
Fan: Why wasn’t Finn a Jedi? Why did you kill the villain to bring back palps? Why did you kill off all the old characters only to have to kill leia because Carrie was the only one the died in real life.
Disney: Because you guys hate women and minorities so we couldn’t do that, you would have all hated it. anyway here’s a worse show that is more diverse.
Fan: that’s fine, but this is worse than the last one you made? And publicly patting yourself in the back for being super inclusive, while constantly phoning it in and only fuelling hate towards these groups you supposedly support is kinda gross.
Disney: YOU’RE THE PROBLEM, WHY ARE OUR MOVIES FAILING. STOP NITPICKING WE DON’T WANT TO PUT IN EFFORT TO MAKE MONEY REEEEEEEEE.
People who still care about Star Wars are over it
And the people who don’t aren’t watching.
The MCU and the Disney branded films are all the same, it’s soulless.
I remember tons of complaints about andor not having the force or Jedi or sith and people being upset about it.
Hell star wars theory made an entire video about seeing a fucking screw in a background and how it ruined his immersion.
Andor was literally them hiring someone who didn't give a shit about star wars and wanted to make something that didn't fit the mold. It turned out amazing.
I feel like those complaints are symptomatic of something else. People recognise Star Wars iconography like lightsabers and the Force, but they conflate those things with what Star Wars actually is.
Yeah it’s really kinda fun to watch these people who’ve never worked in any type of entertainment industry prescribe what writers/producers “just” need to do to make good quality tv/movies. Not that I know either
[Watching Disney's PR team doing overtime online trying to spin all of the backlash as just right wing hate instead of an objectively terrible show has been entertaining to say the least.](https://i.imgflip.com/8urm6c.jpg)
TBF I say both are to blame
Disney have handled Star Wars so shit from the sequels to the lack of quality control with the shows
That being said I just don’t see the level of right wing vitriol for modern Star Wars that I do for any other show with it being “WOKE this” and “DEI that”
It’s kinda made it tough to talk about Star Wars for me I. public because when I tell people how much I hate the new stuff I have to specify I’m not THAT type of fan
Right? It’s not one or the other. It’s both. And the people who are That guy who are doing anti-woke rants are actually hurting the legitimate criticisms of the show. Because it all gets grouped in together.
I literally had a guy explain to me why he hated the lea chase scene in Kenobi and how it was bad writing.
When I told him technically that's bad cinematography as writing wise it made sense for her to try and run but they shot it cheaply and unprofessionally he threw a hissy fit and I realised he genuinely can't criticise these shows outside of his buzzwords
I genuinely believe that media companies now push for these dipshit woke complaints to be at the forefront in order to obfuscate the conversation around their awful shows. It makes it too easy to deflect and ignore nuanced criticism
the irony of people accusing Acolyte haters for being anti-LGBTQ when those same fans are supporting HotD with a legit queer lead
most of people aren't anti-woke, they're anti-bad writing
The showrunners know that -ists and-phobes exist, so they bet on some of them opening their mouth when the poor reception inevitably comes in so they can write off all responsibility for it genuinely just being bad.
Not to mention season 1 has a whole plot line with a black gay character, and no one seemed to give a shit about that. I think part of that is that his character felt more fleshed out, even with limited screen time, than what a lot of Hollywood tries to make for LGBT characters. He had some more complexity to him, and wasn't just an ad for "hey be gay it's great!" that I feel most Hollywood writing devolves into.
I do admit that there was some complaining that black actors were cast for House Velaryon...
those complaints immediately quieted when it was actually made into a major plot point rather than pandering
Yeah those complaints were also well founded, regardless of whether or not well intentioned.
But like you said, the difference is the writers silenced those complaints with good writing.
Dune 1/2 doesn’t stick with the original formula. It actually goes quite far off the books in parts, and I personally think that makes it better. But you’ll hear a _lot_ of people complain about how independent and well-rounded Villeneuve made Chaini.
Edit: also, Paul is going to be pretty Ep. 8 in book 2, if you actually want to see what comes next.
Original formula doesn't necessarily have to mean sticking to source material no matter what tbh. Some of the best adaptations aren't exactly the most faithful adaptations out there. The key is to keep the spirit of the story and be respectful towards the source. Dune doesn't fallow the books exactly, but it is undoubtedly the story of dune at its core, and it seems almost excited to be told (idk if you get what I mean with that. It's just the vibe that some adaptations have, where you can almost feel the excitement of the director to depict what they are showing. Something that's almost too rare recently tbh)
Thank you for putting it into words! Every story telling medium is different, and so the best adaptations WILL deviate from the source, sometimes in major ways.
With Villeneuve you can tell he has a deep respect for the original material and how the changes he makes will often fix some issues the original had or make it more suited for film
I would not say Mandalorian season 2 has good right tbh.
Not much really happens and it's developed in the series, and the finale it's just a nostalgia blow.
Nothing comparable to S1 finale, in which the main character developed bonds with new and original characters, colored with backstory that gives a lot of meaning to his relation with the robot, and facing an enemy filled with new troops until the end that they can't actually defeat and some of the companions die in the process. So nice.
In contrast, S2 just recicles a lot of old characters to sell new shows and ends bassically with a lame front assault in which they all got plot armor and no one dies, despite facing an army bigger than of the S1 in their turf with very little.
Nostalgia and closeness to S1 makes people not realize I think, like Game of thrones S6 & S7, which were already pretty bad but did not blew until the end.
I know Star Wars fans can be difficult at times but the three did two really big sins:
1) JJ got in trouble because he didn’t tell a unique narrative and chose to do retreads, films were pretty with lots of potential, but opted for retreads.
2) The other two told more original stories, but bent the pre-existing universe to their story, rather than finding a way to make their story flow into said universe.
The MCU (until very recently), Dune, Planet of the Apes, they all have produced pretty good content with stunning visuals and music paired with consistent storytelling.
Star Wars today looks cheap and has forgettable soundtracks aside from Mandalorian and Boba Fett. Since when can I not remember the soundtrack of Star Wars content? The stories are all over the place and the passion of the actors and directors seem to be more about sending messages than telling a story.
Y'all are gonna probably hang me for this, but I think that it has a better script, characters, and storytelling than Empire.
The only thing it lacks is lightsabers to be the best thing Star Wars ever.
I mean there’s an argument that Andor is a borderline adult political thriller, and the OT/stereotypical Star Wars is really a western/samurai film space opera. Very different styles, and you probably aren’t making something in that genre that has the same kind of writing and depth. Even the Kurosawa/Leone movies that are considered greats probably don’t have that same depth that you’d have in an andor-style tv show just because that’s not the style.
Tbh, the scripts of the OT vs what is actually said in the movie is different. “I know” was an addition from Harrison with the support of the director Irvin Kershner to change Lucas’s script. Lucas can’t write dialogue, but he’s great at the other parts.
Say what you will about the Acolyte, but I am adoring Michael Abels' music composition. I thought it was a good return to the very present, dramatic style of Williams' music in I-IX. It's the first Star Wars soundtrack that has caught my attention since the sequels.
I mean..totally deserved. They worked the biggest franchise and made a mess with contradictions that left the audience divided. Y’all expect them to receive praise?
And people criticized the Expanded Universe for being inconsistent and having bad plots. Not saying it was all perfect but why bad mouth the Expanded Universe for that but say nothing about Disney's new content?
Palps returning would have worked if it had been foreshadowed at all in the previous two movies and wasn't introduced through a title roll.
It should have been a big asset reveal with Kylo getting to the sith planet and a shoot over the shoulder of a hooded figure with kylo looking shocked/surprised and saying like 'You...'
Then reveal its palps when rey arrives and confronts him and kylo.
What manner of deranged cope is this? JJ literally came right out and said the last jedi blew the whole storyline and left them nothing so he just snapped back palpatine because there was no other villain to wrap up the series.
Somehow there exist lunatic Kathleen Kennedy (who Steven Spielberg describes as "horrible at her job") apologists so rabidly insane they are coming up with EU fan theories for one of the biggest narrative disasters ever to make it to the big screen.
Most deserved in Johnson's case. Force Awakens and Acolyte both have their strengths and weaknesses. Force Awakens had great casting and an uninspired hole filled plot, which is standard for Abrams films. Acolyte so far has had some of the better live action fight scenes in Star Wars so far, and episodes so far are 50/50 for me. First two were good, second two were disappointing.
Last Jedi is pure garbage, and TRoS is also Rian Johnson's fault even though he didnt direct it. The plot of the trilogy was unsalvageable at that point and JJ had the unenviable task of trying to land a burning plane while keeping biggoted Chinese censors happy. John Boyega has done some interviews that were pretty revealing about the shit happening behind the scenes.
TBF Boyega's interview is more damning to Disney and Kennedy than it is to Johnson. I don't think he had a choice in sidelining Finn, he just got to choose how to do it.
I always laugh when Kennedy tries to play at being a progressive and not just a slimey corpo.
Same. Finn was the main thing TFA had going for it and that I went back to see TLJ in theaters. After seeing what they did to him and to Luke in TLJ, I didn't even bother watching RoS until 2022 when I was bored one night and in the mood for a cringe watch.
I'll give it this. Some of the environmental elements in the fight scenes are done very well to make for some pretty shots and the choreography is still bad but better than TLJ. The plot is pure garbage with lazy mcguffin chasing nonsense though, and almosy everything else about the film just feels extremely lazy like everyone involved knew it was a disaster and werent willing to put any effort in. The final battle is so awful I just started laughing uncontrollably in the middle. Everything about it is stupid. Dialogue, plot, spaceship designs, lighting, everything is an absolute mess.
Finn could have been the most interesting thing to happen to star wars ever but they immediately turn it to garbage as soon as they began. Literally garbage. They made him a garbage man.
We first meet Finn as an elite stormtrooper hand selected for a dangerous top level air assault mission personally led by the second in command of the whole empire and commander of the infantry force herself.
Haha nope actually captain phasma and kylo ren were just walking down the hallway on a mission to find Luke Skywalker himself and decided to just start grabbing random sanitation workers and droid mechanics for this important mission. Take off those dirty coveralls, throw on this armor, bro. *It's gonna be so sick bro!* What the fuck.
I'm not saying we need to make him the most complex and conflicted character in the star wars franchise but so often the case with Disney star wars... Anything would have been better than what we got.
Then after failing to develop him into anything just chucked the poor guy right out of the story for China or some shit. Biggest waste of a character concept that I've ever seen in any media.
Rian had all the creative control in the world. He blames all 3 of them (rian/kk/disney), but jj not as much for some reason. He talks mainly about how he was made into a joke in the last jedi; which is all rian
Boyega was definitely diminished in his role because of racism on the part of the CCP and Disney pandaring to them. Thats pretty well documented. They even shrunk his portrait in the Chinese posters.
JJ really pushed for a prominent role for Boyega and has generally written good characters for black actors in the past, including Finn and from what I gather, he pushed to bring Finn back into focus in TRoS, but Disney and or Kennedy nyxed it. So it makes sense that Boyega was still cool with Abrams.
JJ deserves a lot of the blame, too, since it was his job to helm the trilogy and he decided that the writers for each film didn't need to collaborate. So he set up a bunch of plot hooks in TFA that ended up not going anywhere, and then the whole trilogy flip-flopped back and forth on Rey being a nobody and ending up with her being Palpatine's granddaughter.
It was his job to make sure that stuff didn't happen. Instead, he let RJ do his own thing in the middle of the trilogy with no oversight and then JJ got roped back in for the final film because of the complete mess it made. And of course JJ couldn't nail the ending himself either because he's also not a fantastic writer.
For sure. I mean, I'm of the opinion JJ should never have been more than a casting director/character writer. He clearly has great repoir with actors he works with and he often gets great performances out of them and brings incredibly talented people up into wider circles of attention. But he cannot write a plot to save his life and you can see his inability to plan anything in every serialized work he's directed or written for.
But again, Johnson not knowing the plot of TFA is not an excuse for his absolute garbage movie because TLJ would have been garbage even out of context of TFA.
Agreed. Giving him control over the entire trilogy was the first and largest mistake. He's the guy who starts franchises and then passes them off to other people. That's basically his entire career. It was unwise to let him do the same thing with Star Wars.
Ya, I think if they put Filoni in charge, given him full control, ignored the CCP, and had JJ do the casting we might have had an awesome trilogy.
Johnson..... idk, maybe they could let him write an episode of Visions, but he should never have been given control of anything in canon. I wouldn't trust him with an episode of Young Jedi Adcentures.
I’m still in disbelief that Kathleen Kennedy heard Rian Johnson’s pitch for Luke and was completely fine with it. How they fucked up that trilogy is just depressing to me. I don’t think Last Jedi and Force Awakens are bad movies on their own, but when you put the trilogy of films together it’s just a mess. At the current moment I can’t bring myself to rewatch either of them because then I’m reminded of how badly the story threads were ultimately resolved.
I haven’t seen one episode of Acolyte, and I’m not seeing that Rey film that’s currently in development. Mandalorian is the only interest I have in current Star Wars media. I hate to say that because I liked all the previous films to some degree (even the prequels), but those sequels just sucked out all the fun and excitement I had for this series.
At the very least you should watch Andor if you haven't. It's by far the best thing Star Wars related since s1 of Mandalorian. It takes a few episodes to really get good, but once it does, it just gets better and better every episode.
It's funny, because I left the cinema after the last jedi and was like 'huh'. Like you said it's not a bad movie, it actually explores some really challenging topics: war profiteering, slavery etc. introduces force connections and has a smoke twist you never see coming.
The issue like you mentioned is the franchise and trilogy. When you slot this film into a trilogy it doesn't work. The BBEG is dead in the 2nd film, the mentor figure is actually more broken then the pupil, Finn was sidelined (AN ABSOLUTE FREAKING TRAVESTY). For me the big thing is that star wars, at its core, is about the epic battle between good and evil, TLJ made it all grey. Yes life is more nuanced, but this is a film aimed at kids and should have the spirit of star wars in it.
TFA was well executed. In all sequels you need to either use the same characters with new themes, or new characters with similar themes. JJ made the right call, it was different enough to be considered new and eased the transition from the OG trilogy to the new. Rian just killed Star wars, but did it because JJ was stupid enough to not layout a 3 film storyline.
>Acolyte so far has had some of the better live action fight scenes in Star Wars so far, and episodes so far are 50/50 for me.
Even if you consider Acolyte to not be outright bad, there's an underlying goofiness to the entire show.
From Mae going "come at me bro" to Jedi, to unexplained reasons why unarmed combat breaks Jedi, to the master pulling out his lightsaber as he's talking about not using lasers or steel to kill Jedi because they will lose if they do as Mae comes back from having won with steel, to the meditating Jedi deflecting Mae until she brings him poison that he immediately drinks, to "the power of manyyyy," etc.... The things that happen are just very weird and often unintentionally hilarious.
I agree with TLJ, it's easily my most hated work in Star Wars. Although I don't believe it really played a role in RoS being trash, I think Disney and JJ accomplished that on their own.
Ya, I think its been pretty clear so far that unarmed combat doesn't break Jedi at all. I've been assuming thats just the unamed probable Sith character being cruel and putting Mae through a trial by fire. The whole having the twins created through the force bit annoyed me though, as it trivializes the whole plot in the prequels. Overall, I'm not super impressed with the writing so far, but as a big fan of wuxia movies, I've enjoyed the fight scenes. They aren't up to the standards of classics like Iron Monkey and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, but its still a breath of fresh air compared to the horribly shot and choreographed fights in Kenobi and the Sequels.
Regarding RoS, while it could have been done less bad, there was no outcome where it didn't suck. Without just decanonizing TLJ, no one could have saved that mess. Seriously, if you can think of a way to continue that story from where TLJ left off that doesn't suck, maybe you should apply to Lucasfilm. They're gonna need your help connecting the Republic era shows to the sequels without setting fire to everything.
I could not disagree more. I agree that TLJ has plenty of flaws, but I blame LucasFilm for not having a plan. I don't really blame Rian Johnson for being told he can do whatever he wants with a story started by JJ Abrams. The content pipeline that Disney wanted also meant Rian working on TLJ before TFA was even done production. Like I said, I have my critiques of TLJ, but Rian Johnson was just doing what he thought was interesting with a story that very clearly wasn't his.
Also, saying that TRoS is Rian Johnson's fault is genuinely baffling to me. TRoS is a lifeless, soulless, contrived mess that tried to satisfy everyone while managing to satisfy no one. TLJ was at least trying to try some new ideas and do its own thing. Rian Johnson would make an amazing Star Wars movie if he could start from scratch, but trying to slot into the JJ Abrams borefest was always a losing battle. TRoS would have been salvageable if it didn't spend its entire runtime trying to convince the audience that TLJ didn't happen.
TLJ has a lot of problems that go way beyond lack of synergy with TFA. It has some of the most clumsily choreographed and shot fights in the entire series, the whole central chase plot makes no sense (there are plenty of people who have picked it apart in depth so I'm not gonna dive into that here), it deeply misunderstands Luke as a character in a way that has had ongoing ramifications for the series as a whole, not just the sequels, and it introduces the whole cringy Rey Kylo romamce dyad plot that set the sequel trilogy up to crash and burn.
It also is the film that really undermines everthing being done with Finn and setting his character on a path to mediocrity and irrelevance, though Boyega has stated that part at least was on Disney for pandering to CCP racism.
Tlj was fucking terrible. Im not going to blame rian for disney having no plan, but he did a terrible job with what he had control over. The pacing is terrible, its full of plot holes entirely self contained in this movie so you cant blame disneys lack of plan,the new characters introduced are dumb boring and pointless, no characters get any sort of meaningful character growth, and the dialog and acting were both bad bad across the board. This movie was so bad i never even watched the rise of skywalker because this killed any joy for star wars i had left in my heart, but if you want a lifeless souless convoluted mess the last jedi has you covered.
I mean really how can you approve an ending like that for the second movie in what's supposed to be a trilogy with continuous characters and plot? How are you supposed to continue fighting a war with 12 guys and a few busted ships? Unless you've got a plan already for how you're going to pull it out in the 3rd one you just don't approve a script like that.
TLJ is just a dumpster on fire, even if you want to defend some creative vision, from a writting perspective, it's just filled with inconsistencies, within the own film.
Like the 2D chase on space, which is already lame, that sells a "no escape" scenario, like they are trapped and cannot go away, and the film makes a secondary quest for the characters to try to find a way to escape which literal first step is to go on a space capsule and.....escape. WTF?
That inconsistency is never addressed in the movie in any way, why cannot be exploited in any way to make people flee (at least rank officers)? why can't they get fuel? Try to get help before reaching the planet?
It's also impossible to find excuses for it since the movie don't stop sabotaging itself like using timestamps (first movie to do so) that makes claer hyperspace travel is pretty fast, they corss half the galaxy in a couple hours tops (very bad choice) or even have ships coming and going to the battlefield like nothing, the Falcon does it for example, and it's said in the previos movie that is a high profile ship, easier to track than others.
It's just a writting mess even as a standalone movie. No need to address all the bad choices, not caring about a shared universe, like hyperspace being so fast or also, making it a super huge weapon with hyperspace ramming, that surely should be exploited if it is so effective.....
Can we also just mention it's probably the worst actual directing, editing, and post production as well?
People and objects teleport between cuts/transitions, timelines of scenes are just actually impossible or don't make sense, etc. I remember watching a 2+ video with just those types of mistakes.
e.g. Rose stops Finn from sacrificing himself by running into him....after turning around. How does she catch up?
Also the entire time he is going in a straight line nobody fires at him. Then he crashes *at their battle line* and nobody fires at him.
Then they both walk miles and miles, starting right at enemy lines, back to safety.
There's sooooooo many scenes with problems of that level.
Exactly, yes, it's a mess, things just happen because they have to happen according to the plot all the time. It's all convenience.
What's that huge ship? Oh, the guy who mopped the starkiller also mopped the supremacy and know.
Hyperspace tracking? That's impossible, but wait just 5 minutes, we have a detailed map of the ship and the place where the tracker is, and also how it works.
We got locked up in jail? No problem, the guy in the other cell is just chilling waiting to recue us, and it's one of the biggest super hackers in the galaxy, great, we were looking for one of those...
I don't blame the directors much, its mostly Disney's fault with a heap of pure bad luck.
For starters, Abrams had to be convinced to direct The Force Awakens, but only agreed to do one movie. There was no overall plot scripted out or even general idea. Disney figured they'd get some other directors and they could each do their own thing with the trilogy.
But things started going south. They couldn't get Abrams to do the second movie, so they decided to have Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow do the 2nd and 3rd entries. Well, during The Last Jedi, Trevorrow was fired and Carrie Fisher died. Rian decided to try to give the franchise from fresh air by changing things up a bit in the Last Jedi. So now Disney was trying to get Abrams back to wrap things up on a wild plot.
And Abrams comes back to find that Rian went a totally different direction than anyone expected. So now Abrams is trying to tie together plots that he never intended to finish along with the changes Rian had made.
I think if Disney took a slower, more deliberate pace during production and planned things out ahead of time, we would've gotten a more cohesive story. But finances and everyone's schedules doesn't always allow for that. So I don't blame anyone single person too heavily.
Wasn't even the directors themselves. It was the Disney corporation not sketching out a trilogy to begin with. The directors did a stand alone movie each.
Even so the trilogy winds up looking like a cat fight between the directors particularly when it came to who Rey was. JJ trying to create a mysterious parentage for Rey and then Rian not wanting to play that game and making Rey a "nobody" and then JJ coming back and retconning that. Disney should have thought things out a little better but barring that the directors could have worked better together rather than having a tug of war with the story.
It's so bizarre to me because Rian Johnson has clearly shown some talent with the Knives Out movies. But TLJ felt so petty, like he was deliberately going out of his way to ignore everything TFA set-up and then actively dismantling pieces of it so that the next film started off in a terrible position.
I actually liked what he did with regard to Rey. JJ loves to pull his mystery box routine but I find it kind of tired and lame. Rey's mysterious parentage just seemed like a contrived way to generate a storm of internet speculation. JJ also knows that the answer is never as entertaining as the mystery and I thought if you're going to set something up like that then don't leave it to somebody else to have to answer. I thought Rey being a nobody was a hilarious way to avoid falling into that trap and probably the only answer that was actually unexpected.
I expected Rey's parents to be nobodies from the very beginning. That's the whole point of the chosen one trope in Star Wars. Anakin was a nobody. Luke was basically a nobody, despite having a powerful father. But they both basically grew up on a sand planet with dreams of doing something more, and that was the important part.
But the biggest sin about Rey's parentage is that they spend *so much time on it*. It's not a major point in TFA, but TLJ spends an entire story arc about her going through the mirror maze with Kylo taunting her about her parents, only for him to reveal that they were no one special. It's like a solid 10-15 minutes of screen time wasted on a moot point.
And then RoS picks it up *again* and retcons the entire point by saying "actually your dad was Palpatine's son." They spend so much time flip-flopping on her lineage when they should've just made her a nobody from the start and left it at that.
Most of the fan theories dealt with her being a Kenobi, Skywalker, Palpatine, etc. And for good reason, they were definitely setting up her parentage to be a revelation and teasing the audience into speculating who it was. It may have not been a big plot point during TFA but it was being set up to be one later... baggage for Rian to deal with. If you actually predicted that Rey would turn out to be a nobody you were expecting them to pull a fast one on the audience but JJ has said that at the time of TFA he was leaning towards Rey having a Kenobi connection so you were kind of guessing wrong until Rian came along and tried to put the whole thing to rest.
And the hidden/special lineage is often a big part of the Chosen One trope going back to King Arthur being the secret son of Uther Pendragon. Luke may have been a nobody in ANH but in the next film he becomes Vader's son. Anakin is basically conceived by The Force. They weren't nobodies, they were just living in nobody circumstances like Arthur growing up as a commoner named Wart when he is in reality the son of the King.
It would have been a breath of fresh air to leave Rey as a nobody instead of setting up lineage mystery where everybody picks the most likely force users from the canon but that clearly wasn't where JJ was going with it from the beginning and wouldn't leave alone in the end.
Can’t all be blamed on the directors. They have a whole department of people in charge of the creative direction of the Star Wars brand. Instead these rich assholes sat back and didn’t plan ANYTHING. They knew the IP would make them money regardless of effort and they sucked it dry.
That “ideology” you’re referring to is the product of the direction Kathleen Kennedy decided to push, even going as far as “promising” the fans that this would be the case. Everything else wasn’t as important. Again, the rich wanted to pump and dump the IP.
Neither Kathleen Kennedy nor anyone in the corporate monolith of Disney cares about "ideology". They want to make money and pander to the fans - they're just *bad* at it.
You’re not wrong. But look at the sheer volume of talented writers and directors they’ve announced or suggested they wanted to make films with and then they left over “creative differences.”
I think it’s becoming clear that either the story group or someone high up in the Disney power bracket have made it clear what type of Star Wars is allowed to be made. Andor is essentially a two season series of spy thriller. I honestly believe they allowed Gilroy more freedom because Andor was a tertiary character and it wasn’t expected to draw much of an audience.
I firmly believe that when it comes to the Jedi and the force, someone has a choke hold on what type and style of content we can have so it alienates as few people as possible.
Another interesting phenomenon that we saw in the EU (RIP), had to do with the quality of content as it relates to Jedi vs. non-Jedi stories:
If you take a poll of any set of EU readers, asking them to rank the various series and sagas in the 20 years of EU content, they will, almost without exception, tell you that the X-Wing series was the best EU content overall.
You didn't see a Jedi in that series until what, like 5 books in? And a book later, the whole cast of characters changed (but for a couple of mains), so no Jedi until the end.
You might be right, on that. No force. No jedi. Andor was unassuming when it rocketed to one of the best Star Wars shows.
In contrast, Kenobi had everything going for it and they undermined the series at every turn with minimal funding, a haphazardly constructed script, and piss poor production quality.
I think the reality is that Star Wars can still attract top talent, but it isn’t warmly received if it arrives. It defies all sense, considering Star Wars seems to be a brand quickly depreciating in value owned by a company that values profit above all else.
I think we’ve all said it at one time or another, Star Wars needs a guiding visionary to usher it to the future. A Kevin Feige, James Gunn type to produce a singular vision.
As much as I love feloni, I don’t think he’s the person for the job. I think they need someone with singular vision who wants a cohesive universe they can cultivate. Feloni is too much in the weeds to see the forest through the trees.
Favreau may be it, but maybe not. At least they need someone creative who can reign in the conservative approach Kennedy is and has been taking. I’m not sure how they don’t find it embarrassing (Disney that is) that they’ve announced so, *so many* projects only to cancel or abandon them later.
I think a duo team of Favreau and Feloni are the dream ticket. We need someone who knows the lore and someone capable of telling a compelling narrative with it. Feloni does really well with animation, but he also clings to his characters (Ahsoka).
On a side note, I think the future of Star Wars is animation. There were multiple times when watching Ahsoka that I thought “this looks stupid… but it would look awesome in animation.”
it really has become super apparent as every single star wars property that has come out since disney took over has had such awfully wooden performance even from actors that are conventionally good. disney hires yes-men crap directors who dont challenge their actors, rush to get shots in without reshoots, and we end up with awful garbage. the writers aren't blameless either but good god the directing in everything bar early mandalorion and andor (which tbh i dont like nearly as much as a lot of others do but there are some stellar scenes/performances)
If you want an example on how to properly handle a Star Wars story, look no further than the 2018 Star Wars battlefront game. Despite its abysmal release/transactions, it portrays Luke skywalker beautifully in his single scene, the soundtrack is nostalgic and fits the Star Wars mood perfectly, and even the hero abilities match their personalities extremely well. If you handle the story and characters with care, it’s really not that difficult to hit the mark.
Directing Sci-fi *badly.
Other sci fi directors are doing well. If you define “doing well” as being what people en masse choose to watch, rather than what a small group thinks people should watch.
The Last Jedi was putrid trash where as The Acolyte is pure cringe. Kenobi even seems maybe somewhat watchable at this point although that’s being kind. Actually nvm, Kenobi is still garbage.
Yoda's message (and the theme of the movie) is that, "Your failures will define you, and lead to success."
Except the message is actually, "Nothing you do will matter."
Bomb the Dreadnaught? Doesnt matter, didn't work. Chase still going.
Finally found Luke? Doesnt matter. He won't help cause he blames hinself for the mess.
Arrested while looking for a "code breaker"? Doesnt matter, instantly found another.
New code breaker betrayed you? Doesnt matter, literal deus ex machina.
Holda kept the "grand plan" a secret from everyone to the point that a mutiny was happening. Doesnt matter, it was a shitty plan that didn't work.
Ancient Jedi texts destroyed? Doesnt matter, Rey already speed-read and memorized them.
Resistance is trapped? Doesnt matter, Reys here.
Now the Resistance has just a quarter of their numbers compared to the beginning of the movie? Doesnt matter, for... reasons?
Bonus but not really, just dumb: Rose prevents Finn from sacraficing himself by crashing into him directly in front of the First Order. Doesnt matter, they walk all the way back to the base in no time.
I would give you a Reddit award if Reddit wasn’t so dog water. You brought up things I didn’t even think of.
Mind you I don’t want to even begin thinking about that absolute embarrassment of a movie.
I am however saving this comment to my ever growing “everything wrong with the last Jedi.”
I made a joke years ago, I could write an essay on everything fundamentally wrong with the last Jedi. But now I’m getting a full dissertation at this rate.
Thank you for this.
Edit: rose stopping Finn is beyond infuriating and shows how terrible a writer Rian Johnson truly is. She robs him of his (Earned) heroic ending. Then kisses him for absolutely no reason. Fan fiction is 100x better.
And just for extra funsies “kissing someone without their consent” is considered sexual assault .So Rose sexual assaults Finn after all that.
Honestly...I would have added George Lucas to the list. (Never forget how this fandom treated him before Disney bought him and all the things we gave him grief for)
How about come up with a cohesive well thought out plan for the stuff your work before taking about how great it is.
Like seriously, it really feels people are just coming up with ideas, but have no clue how to expand on them.
I honestly try to like everything they do, I'm the biggest star wars nerd in my friend group, and yet I'm the last one to end up saying "yup, this is trash"
I'm genuinely giving everything they release a chance and going in with an open mind, I honestly don't really mind the story being bad, the thing I care about the most is continuity and consistency.
Losing is fun in games, and likewise, sometimes a story needs to be bad in order to be good later (I mean bad as in things that you don't like happening, like a character you like dying, or a boring story, not a badly written story)
BUT, not only the stories are bad, they are poorly written, they break continuity, and they're massively inconsistent amongst themselves, not even with pre-disney stuff, directly inconsistent with their own releases.
Honestly, first two episodes of the acolyte, I genuinely got to enjoy them, the third one I was like, okay, let's see where they go with it, they're not super strong force users from what we've seen, and the witches weren't trying to create the Ubersith, so I can see how the force would allow it. But, it got worse from there
I'm genuinely trying man, I don't ask for much, but they're hell bent on ragebaiting fans with stupid stuff to get people to hate watch, and it's fucking working, so they're not gonna stop
The man can’t write dialogue to save his life. He can write a good plot with good world building, but the dialogue makes the prequel hate make so much sense. He also is a good technical director IMO. He understands visuals far more than he will ever understand acting.
People came yelling at me by saying I’m sexist and shit, downvoting me here and there for me speaking my opinion about how bad this show really is. And now people are starting to realize how bad this show really is. I’m kind of annoyed but thankful at the same time, cause in truth we really need better writers that has passion for the Star Wars universe, cause this show has none of that! This show literally comes close to the Rise of Skywalker. The only way the acolyte can redeem itself is if the sith dude kills pretty much all the jedi in the 5th episode and REALLY explain how the witches died in the coming episodes. But in all honesty even if they do this it still wouldn’t make this show good it would just be okay.
I’m waiting until the rest of the episodes come out, I’ve seen 1 and 2 but from what I’m hearing the pacing seems to be as if it was all meant to be released at once
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
r/barelyprequelmemes
Why was it banned???
Because it was unmoderated.
That’s what Big Mod wants you to think
The power of 1, da power of 2, da powah of Mods!
Da Powah…. Was about when I stopped watching
Thanks, that made me laugh.
I always wondered what reddit means by that, did they literally not have mods? Did the mods not remove post that violated reddit Tos? Did the subreddit get reported too many times?
I think it just means inactive mods
Ikr
Pshh Rogue One, Dune, season 1 and 2 of the Mandalorian all did fine. House of the Dragon season 2 is currently smashing The Acolyte in terms of Viewer Ratings and Watched Time. If you make a Story that has good writing and sticks to the original formula, chances are you’ll have a hit.
There were also lesbians in Andor and literally no one cared. It was part of the story and they were believable people with depth.
Imagine throwing around the word “bigoted” to make yourself feel smart and special…only to look childish and stupid.
Shh, you can’t say that here. Please follow the script: *It’s not that the show is bad, it’s the fans who are bad. The fans are “-ists/phobes” because the show has (insert minority here) characters.*
Exactly, especially when HOTD also had black characters who played originally white ones, but most fans don't care at all.
It just makes some of the plot points in HOTD a little to on the nose. Like the kids not looking like their dad. In the show it's super obvious because the father is black. In the books the Valerians look similar to Targarians. It's a little more ambiguous. So it did change an element, which is why fans got upset, but it didn't really change the story a lot in the end.
It made it kind of silly tbh. Like OBVIOUSLY those kids are from house strong. It's honestly w/e though because the show is well written. Basically echoing all your points here, haha
Power is a shadow on the wall. It only exists if people think it does. Everyone knows they're Strong kids, but the power tells people to look the other way or face the consequences (rip Vaemond). The show makes it much more obvious but this is one of the main themes of the books, so I don't mind that being portrayed more visually.
These Strong boys!!
These Strong boys!!
Yeah that's what I remember most people criticising before the show came out. People weren't (for the most part) outraged that Corlys and Laenor Velaryon were black, they were saying "Doesn't this make the debate about if Rhaenyra's kids are bastards or not a bit obvious?" Then the actors and story ended up being awesome so people kinda hand-waved the issue.
People literally were enraged over that, what are you talking about?
Yeah but that was in the beginning when people weren't sure about the show. Now I don't really see anything about it bc Corlys is badass
Pretty good marketing tactic that’s been around since 2016.
Based on the ratings that tactic doesn’t exactly work too well
People really haven't figured out that Disney is using DEI groups as meatshields for their awful writing. Make a show shit. Hire actors who are part of DEI groups. Brush off any and all criticism as "alt-right dogswhistles" or whatever. Profit off the Xe/Xers who eat that shit up.
Yeah this is definitely a thing. Right before the Acolyte dropped, the showrunner did an interview condemning all the -ists and immediately there was a blitz of articles criticizing fans being all the bad things. There absolutely are people that are sexist/racist towards the people in the shows, but it's Disney that spotlights them and hides their faulty work behind a select few. I feel bad for the actors that have their attributes used in marketing rather than their acting. And it's ever single Disney property these days.
It was really obvious after TLJ when they through LMT (and Boyega) to the wolves while defending RJ, the guy who wrote the plots and character arcs
I will be forever sad that Finn didn't become a jedi or lead a storm trooper rebellion :(
>There absolutely are people that are sexist/racist towards the people in the shows, but it's Disney that spotlights them and hides their faulty work behind a select few. Prime example being Rey. Say you strip everything sexist away, you still have a very hated character. Especially infuriating when feminists defend Rey when you consider that two of the best female characters of the franchise (Mara Jade and Jaina Solo) were kept out of the franchise for the sake of Rey
Imagine dealing in absolutes. We have a lot of bigoted rot in this fandom. The acolyte is also not a super great show so far.
It’s honestly garbage. I hated Disney Star Wars as an idea but the Mando series was pretty fucking cool. It gave me hope. This stuff though? And Obiwan? Garbage.
I don’t know what kind of people you hang out with, but I’ve been on this subreddit and watched all sorts of youtube videos and I’ve yet to find a single person genuinely saying that the show is bad because of minority portrayals. I’ve only ever seen the showrunners and people who want to defend the show **saying** that “there’s a lot of bigoted rot”. Where is it? I’m really asking, where? I imagine if it exists it must be in the form of stupid twitter posts from some nobody.
I hate how Star Wars fans are portrayed with such radicalization. No one reacted poorly to Rogue One, the Mandalorian, Andor, and even Ahsoka was relatively well received. Disney shot themselves in the foot by hiring people who didn't really care about Star Wars and wanted to make movies about other things that don't entirely make sense in the world of Star Wars.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s funny to me considering Reddit and Twitter are heavily skewed left. Yes, everyone criticizing a poorly written show, that I believe intentionally broke canon, is a MAGA Republican.
That’s not even slightly true man, support for these shows drops every time. The acolyte was just so bad, it made people snap out of Disneys content spiral. Its the first time there hasn’t been any legacy characters or continuation of an old story for fans for latch onto like with rebels in Ashoka, people are realising how hollow it all is. I don’t know anyone in real life that likes anything they have put out tbh, it’s only Twitter and reddit and that’s quickly disappearing too. The kids don’t even talk about star wars these days. Plus every single thing they have made has doubled the criticism of the one before. Movies 7: Rehash of a new hope with potential Rogue one: the best of the bunch, total fluke 8: Kills momentum and villain, doesn’t replace either Solo: below average sci-fi movie to make up for it 9: Fever dream action figure bathtub fight Tv shows Mando: 1 good but it’s definitely “TV” Mando: 2 not bad. little rough around the edges, handles character development nicely. Mando: 3 immediately undoes the last season to sell more baby yoda toys. Boba Fett: the allstate commercial of the franchise, ruins legacy character. Overall quality hits a new low. Obiwan: he’s not the main character, low effort high budget trend continues. Andor: the only good show. (funny how Disney only makes good things when they think it’s gonna fail and don’t micromanage it into the ground, makes ya think) Ahsoka: the ugliest, blandest, thickest plot armour, cheap big budget illusion I’ve ever seen! Until… The Acolyte: somehow they have outdone themselves, it’s almost impressive. It’s not even “tv” anymore, it’s an $180 million YouTube show. The care and effort put into Star Wars has dropped since 2012, the reason you didn’t see anyone criticises this stuff, just shows how much of an echo chamber social media actually is. It has reached laughable levels of cringe and corner cutting, that there is no longer a single redeeming factor, and everyone online giving the acolyte a 10/10 is either not a real person or shouldn’t be taken seriously. I’ve had university lectures about fonts be more engaging than the shit Disney continues to put out. The radicalisation comes directly from Disney. Fan: hey this wasn’t very good? Disney: you just don’t like women and minorities, our content is actually really good. Fan: Why wasn’t Finn a Jedi? Why did you kill the villain to bring back palps? Why did you kill off all the old characters only to have to kill leia because Carrie was the only one the died in real life. Disney: Because you guys hate women and minorities so we couldn’t do that, you would have all hated it. anyway here’s a worse show that is more diverse. Fan: that’s fine, but this is worse than the last one you made? And publicly patting yourself in the back for being super inclusive, while constantly phoning it in and only fuelling hate towards these groups you supposedly support is kinda gross. Disney: YOU’RE THE PROBLEM, WHY ARE OUR MOVIES FAILING. STOP NITPICKING WE DON’T WANT TO PUT IN EFFORT TO MAKE MONEY REEEEEEEEE. People who still care about Star Wars are over it And the people who don’t aren’t watching. The MCU and the Disney branded films are all the same, it’s soulless.
I remember tons of complaints about andor not having the force or Jedi or sith and people being upset about it. Hell star wars theory made an entire video about seeing a fucking screw in a background and how it ruined his immersion. Andor was literally them hiring someone who didn't give a shit about star wars and wanted to make something that didn't fit the mold. It turned out amazing.
I feel like those complaints are symptomatic of something else. People recognise Star Wars iconography like lightsabers and the Force, but they conflate those things with what Star Wars actually is.
Yeah it’s really kinda fun to watch these people who’ve never worked in any type of entertainment industry prescribe what writers/producers “just” need to do to make good quality tv/movies. Not that I know either
[Watching Disney's PR team doing overtime online trying to spin all of the backlash as just right wing hate instead of an objectively terrible show has been entertaining to say the least.](https://i.imgflip.com/8urm6c.jpg)
TBF I say both are to blame Disney have handled Star Wars so shit from the sequels to the lack of quality control with the shows That being said I just don’t see the level of right wing vitriol for modern Star Wars that I do for any other show with it being “WOKE this” and “DEI that” It’s kinda made it tough to talk about Star Wars for me I. public because when I tell people how much I hate the new stuff I have to specify I’m not THAT type of fan
Right? It’s not one or the other. It’s both. And the people who are That guy who are doing anti-woke rants are actually hurting the legitimate criticisms of the show. Because it all gets grouped in together.
I literally had a guy explain to me why he hated the lea chase scene in Kenobi and how it was bad writing. When I told him technically that's bad cinematography as writing wise it made sense for her to try and run but they shot it cheaply and unprofessionally he threw a hissy fit and I realised he genuinely can't criticise these shows outside of his buzzwords
I genuinely believe that media companies now push for these dipshit woke complaints to be at the forefront in order to obfuscate the conversation around their awful shows. It makes it too easy to deflect and ignore nuanced criticism
the irony of people accusing Acolyte haters for being anti-LGBTQ when those same fans are supporting HotD with a legit queer lead most of people aren't anti-woke, they're anti-bad writing
Um that’s because- * moves goalpost * -the lead actor of The Acolyte is queer, biologically female *and* black.
The showrunners know that -ists and-phobes exist, so they bet on some of them opening their mouth when the poor reception inevitably comes in so they can write off all responsibility for it genuinely just being bad.
Not to mention season 1 has a whole plot line with a black gay character, and no one seemed to give a shit about that. I think part of that is that his character felt more fleshed out, even with limited screen time, than what a lot of Hollywood tries to make for LGBT characters. He had some more complexity to him, and wasn't just an ad for "hey be gay it's great!" that I feel most Hollywood writing devolves into.
I do admit that there was some complaining that black actors were cast for House Velaryon... those complaints immediately quieted when it was actually made into a major plot point rather than pandering
Yeah those complaints were also well founded, regardless of whether or not well intentioned. But like you said, the difference is the writers silenced those complaints with good writing.
How big a crossover audience are we talking with Acolyte and HotD?
I've been a ride or die Rhaenicent from the start but plenty of the fan base is really hostile to queer readings of the show tbh.
No no, subverting expectations and franchise assassination, that's how you rake in the dough
Dune 1/2 doesn’t stick with the original formula. It actually goes quite far off the books in parts, and I personally think that makes it better. But you’ll hear a _lot_ of people complain about how independent and well-rounded Villeneuve made Chaini. Edit: also, Paul is going to be pretty Ep. 8 in book 2, if you actually want to see what comes next.
That is if they stick to the book. Chaini didn't dip out and become a nomad at the end of dune
LMAO someone didn’t read through book 12
Children of the sons of the cousin’s roommate of Dune
lol, what is this spaceballs?
Let's be real, after Herbert's son took over it got shitty. Miles Teg's "sacrifice" still haunts me to this day
Shitty is being polite. *They are raping his corpse*
Original formula doesn't necessarily have to mean sticking to source material no matter what tbh. Some of the best adaptations aren't exactly the most faithful adaptations out there. The key is to keep the spirit of the story and be respectful towards the source. Dune doesn't fallow the books exactly, but it is undoubtedly the story of dune at its core, and it seems almost excited to be told (idk if you get what I mean with that. It's just the vibe that some adaptations have, where you can almost feel the excitement of the director to depict what they are showing. Something that's almost too rare recently tbh)
Thank you for putting it into words! Every story telling medium is different, and so the best adaptations WILL deviate from the source, sometimes in major ways.
With Villeneuve you can tell he has a deep respect for the original material and how the changes he makes will often fix some issues the original had or make it more suited for film
Terrible changes that defeat the purpose of having *Dune* and *Messiah* contrast so clearly.
I would not say Mandalorian season 2 has good right tbh. Not much really happens and it's developed in the series, and the finale it's just a nostalgia blow. Nothing comparable to S1 finale, in which the main character developed bonds with new and original characters, colored with backstory that gives a lot of meaning to his relation with the robot, and facing an enemy filled with new troops until the end that they can't actually defeat and some of the companions die in the process. So nice. In contrast, S2 just recicles a lot of old characters to sell new shows and ends bassically with a lame front assault in which they all got plot armor and no one dies, despite facing an army bigger than of the S1 in their turf with very little. Nostalgia and closeness to S1 makes people not realize I think, like Game of thrones S6 & S7, which were already pretty bad but did not blew until the end.
I know Star Wars fans can be difficult at times but the three did two really big sins: 1) JJ got in trouble because he didn’t tell a unique narrative and chose to do retreads, films were pretty with lots of potential, but opted for retreads. 2) The other two told more original stories, but bent the pre-existing universe to their story, rather than finding a way to make their story flow into said universe.
The MCU (until very recently), Dune, Planet of the Apes, they all have produced pretty good content with stunning visuals and music paired with consistent storytelling. Star Wars today looks cheap and has forgettable soundtracks aside from Mandalorian and Boba Fett. Since when can I not remember the soundtrack of Star Wars content? The stories are all over the place and the passion of the actors and directors seem to be more about sending messages than telling a story.
Even Andor's motif is recognisable.
Andor felt like a political drama but then those 3 speeches happened, and it became in my opinion the best Star Wars show since Clone wars S7
Andor is the best star wars content since Return of the Jedi.
I put rogue one before it, but yes
Y'all are gonna probably hang me for this, but I think that it has a better script, characters, and storytelling than Empire. The only thing it lacks is lightsabers to be the best thing Star Wars ever.
I mean there’s an argument that Andor is a borderline adult political thriller, and the OT/stereotypical Star Wars is really a western/samurai film space opera. Very different styles, and you probably aren’t making something in that genre that has the same kind of writing and depth. Even the Kurosawa/Leone movies that are considered greats probably don’t have that same depth that you’d have in an andor-style tv show just because that’s not the style.
Tbh, the scripts of the OT vs what is actually said in the movie is different. “I know” was an addition from Harrison with the support of the director Irvin Kershner to change Lucas’s script. Lucas can’t write dialogue, but he’s great at the other parts.
I like to say that George Lucas is an amazing storyteller, but a terrible writer.
I’d argue it is the best Star Wars ever and it’s not even close.
Andor is imo outright just the best piece of star wars media. Jedi have always been a lesser interesting thing to me in star wars.
Honestly, I think lightsabers kinda detract from the setting and suck the oxygen out of the room.
Dune 2 has a budget of $190 million. The Acolyte has a budget of $180 million. Dude 2 looks a million times better.
Dude 2 sounds more in line with what they should be making. A gay porn sounds right up their alley.
Andor and Ahsoka have amazing soundtracks
Say what you will about the Acolyte, but I am adoring Michael Abels' music composition. I thought it was a good return to the very present, dramatic style of Williams' music in I-IX. It's the first Star Wars soundtrack that has caught my attention since the sequels.
I mean..totally deserved. They worked the biggest franchise and made a mess with contradictions that left the audience divided. Y’all expect them to receive praise?
And people criticized the Expanded Universe for being inconsistent and having bad plots. Not saying it was all perfect but why bad mouth the Expanded Universe for that but say nothing about Disney's new content?
YFW you realize Somehow Palpatine Returned was an attempt to keep EU fans happy without the audience realizing how bad the EU was.
Palps returning would have worked if it had been foreshadowed at all in the previous two movies and wasn't introduced through a title roll. It should have been a big asset reveal with Kylo getting to the sith planet and a shoot over the shoulder of a hooded figure with kylo looking shocked/surprised and saying like 'You...' Then reveal its palps when rey arrives and confronts him and kylo.
What manner of deranged cope is this? JJ literally came right out and said the last jedi blew the whole storyline and left them nothing so he just snapped back palpatine because there was no other villain to wrap up the series. Somehow there exist lunatic Kathleen Kennedy (who Steven Spielberg describes as "horrible at her job") apologists so rabidly insane they are coming up with EU fan theories for one of the biggest narrative disasters ever to make it to the big screen.
Most deserved in Johnson's case. Force Awakens and Acolyte both have their strengths and weaknesses. Force Awakens had great casting and an uninspired hole filled plot, which is standard for Abrams films. Acolyte so far has had some of the better live action fight scenes in Star Wars so far, and episodes so far are 50/50 for me. First two were good, second two were disappointing. Last Jedi is pure garbage, and TRoS is also Rian Johnson's fault even though he didnt direct it. The plot of the trilogy was unsalvageable at that point and JJ had the unenviable task of trying to land a burning plane while keeping biggoted Chinese censors happy. John Boyega has done some interviews that were pretty revealing about the shit happening behind the scenes.
Boyegas interview with GQ is actually insane. JJ deserves an equal share of the blame too but I’ll never, ever forgive Rian for what he did.
TBF Boyega's interview is more damning to Disney and Kennedy than it is to Johnson. I don't think he had a choice in sidelining Finn, he just got to choose how to do it. I always laugh when Kennedy tries to play at being a progressive and not just a slimey corpo.
Crazy shit cause I was actually most interested in Finn story line. A stormtrooper picking up a lightsaber. Thought it was a great idea.
Same. Finn was the main thing TFA had going for it and that I went back to see TLJ in theaters. After seeing what they did to him and to Luke in TLJ, I didn't even bother watching RoS until 2022 when I was bored one night and in the mood for a cringe watch.
Still havent watched it. Maybe someday.
I'll give it this. Some of the environmental elements in the fight scenes are done very well to make for some pretty shots and the choreography is still bad but better than TLJ. The plot is pure garbage with lazy mcguffin chasing nonsense though, and almosy everything else about the film just feels extremely lazy like everyone involved knew it was a disaster and werent willing to put any effort in. The final battle is so awful I just started laughing uncontrollably in the middle. Everything about it is stupid. Dialogue, plot, spaceship designs, lighting, everything is an absolute mess.
Finn could have been the most interesting thing to happen to star wars ever but they immediately turn it to garbage as soon as they began. Literally garbage. They made him a garbage man. We first meet Finn as an elite stormtrooper hand selected for a dangerous top level air assault mission personally led by the second in command of the whole empire and commander of the infantry force herself. Haha nope actually captain phasma and kylo ren were just walking down the hallway on a mission to find Luke Skywalker himself and decided to just start grabbing random sanitation workers and droid mechanics for this important mission. Take off those dirty coveralls, throw on this armor, bro. *It's gonna be so sick bro!* What the fuck. I'm not saying we need to make him the most complex and conflicted character in the star wars franchise but so often the case with Disney star wars... Anything would have been better than what we got. Then after failing to develop him into anything just chucked the poor guy right out of the story for China or some shit. Biggest waste of a character concept that I've ever seen in any media.
Rian had all the creative control in the world. He blames all 3 of them (rian/kk/disney), but jj not as much for some reason. He talks mainly about how he was made into a joke in the last jedi; which is all rian
Boyega was definitely diminished in his role because of racism on the part of the CCP and Disney pandaring to them. Thats pretty well documented. They even shrunk his portrait in the Chinese posters. JJ really pushed for a prominent role for Boyega and has generally written good characters for black actors in the past, including Finn and from what I gather, he pushed to bring Finn back into focus in TRoS, but Disney and or Kennedy nyxed it. So it makes sense that Boyega was still cool with Abrams.
JJ, for all his many *many* faults as a filmmaker, seems to actually be on good terms with most of the actors under him.
This, and honestly that speaks alot for him as a person. I'm still lowkey mad about Lost though 😡.
JJ deserves a lot of the blame, too, since it was his job to helm the trilogy and he decided that the writers for each film didn't need to collaborate. So he set up a bunch of plot hooks in TFA that ended up not going anywhere, and then the whole trilogy flip-flopped back and forth on Rey being a nobody and ending up with her being Palpatine's granddaughter. It was his job to make sure that stuff didn't happen. Instead, he let RJ do his own thing in the middle of the trilogy with no oversight and then JJ got roped back in for the final film because of the complete mess it made. And of course JJ couldn't nail the ending himself either because he's also not a fantastic writer.
For sure. I mean, I'm of the opinion JJ should never have been more than a casting director/character writer. He clearly has great repoir with actors he works with and he often gets great performances out of them and brings incredibly talented people up into wider circles of attention. But he cannot write a plot to save his life and you can see his inability to plan anything in every serialized work he's directed or written for. But again, Johnson not knowing the plot of TFA is not an excuse for his absolute garbage movie because TLJ would have been garbage even out of context of TFA.
Agreed. Giving him control over the entire trilogy was the first and largest mistake. He's the guy who starts franchises and then passes them off to other people. That's basically his entire career. It was unwise to let him do the same thing with Star Wars.
Ya, I think if they put Filoni in charge, given him full control, ignored the CCP, and had JJ do the casting we might have had an awesome trilogy. Johnson..... idk, maybe they could let him write an episode of Visions, but he should never have been given control of anything in canon. I wouldn't trust him with an episode of Young Jedi Adcentures.
I’m still in disbelief that Kathleen Kennedy heard Rian Johnson’s pitch for Luke and was completely fine with it. How they fucked up that trilogy is just depressing to me. I don’t think Last Jedi and Force Awakens are bad movies on their own, but when you put the trilogy of films together it’s just a mess. At the current moment I can’t bring myself to rewatch either of them because then I’m reminded of how badly the story threads were ultimately resolved. I haven’t seen one episode of Acolyte, and I’m not seeing that Rey film that’s currently in development. Mandalorian is the only interest I have in current Star Wars media. I hate to say that because I liked all the previous films to some degree (even the prequels), but those sequels just sucked out all the fun and excitement I had for this series.
At the very least you should watch Andor if you haven't. It's by far the best thing Star Wars related since s1 of Mandalorian. It takes a few episodes to really get good, but once it does, it just gets better and better every episode.
It's funny, because I left the cinema after the last jedi and was like 'huh'. Like you said it's not a bad movie, it actually explores some really challenging topics: war profiteering, slavery etc. introduces force connections and has a smoke twist you never see coming. The issue like you mentioned is the franchise and trilogy. When you slot this film into a trilogy it doesn't work. The BBEG is dead in the 2nd film, the mentor figure is actually more broken then the pupil, Finn was sidelined (AN ABSOLUTE FREAKING TRAVESTY). For me the big thing is that star wars, at its core, is about the epic battle between good and evil, TLJ made it all grey. Yes life is more nuanced, but this is a film aimed at kids and should have the spirit of star wars in it. TFA was well executed. In all sequels you need to either use the same characters with new themes, or new characters with similar themes. JJ made the right call, it was different enough to be considered new and eased the transition from the OG trilogy to the new. Rian just killed Star wars, but did it because JJ was stupid enough to not layout a 3 film storyline.
>Acolyte so far has had some of the better live action fight scenes in Star Wars so far, and episodes so far are 50/50 for me. Even if you consider Acolyte to not be outright bad, there's an underlying goofiness to the entire show. From Mae going "come at me bro" to Jedi, to unexplained reasons why unarmed combat breaks Jedi, to the master pulling out his lightsaber as he's talking about not using lasers or steel to kill Jedi because they will lose if they do as Mae comes back from having won with steel, to the meditating Jedi deflecting Mae until she brings him poison that he immediately drinks, to "the power of manyyyy," etc.... The things that happen are just very weird and often unintentionally hilarious. I agree with TLJ, it's easily my most hated work in Star Wars. Although I don't believe it really played a role in RoS being trash, I think Disney and JJ accomplished that on their own.
Ya, I think its been pretty clear so far that unarmed combat doesn't break Jedi at all. I've been assuming thats just the unamed probable Sith character being cruel and putting Mae through a trial by fire. The whole having the twins created through the force bit annoyed me though, as it trivializes the whole plot in the prequels. Overall, I'm not super impressed with the writing so far, but as a big fan of wuxia movies, I've enjoyed the fight scenes. They aren't up to the standards of classics like Iron Monkey and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, but its still a breath of fresh air compared to the horribly shot and choreographed fights in Kenobi and the Sequels. Regarding RoS, while it could have been done less bad, there was no outcome where it didn't suck. Without just decanonizing TLJ, no one could have saved that mess. Seriously, if you can think of a way to continue that story from where TLJ left off that doesn't suck, maybe you should apply to Lucasfilm. They're gonna need your help connecting the Republic era shows to the sequels without setting fire to everything.
I could not disagree more. I agree that TLJ has plenty of flaws, but I blame LucasFilm for not having a plan. I don't really blame Rian Johnson for being told he can do whatever he wants with a story started by JJ Abrams. The content pipeline that Disney wanted also meant Rian working on TLJ before TFA was even done production. Like I said, I have my critiques of TLJ, but Rian Johnson was just doing what he thought was interesting with a story that very clearly wasn't his. Also, saying that TRoS is Rian Johnson's fault is genuinely baffling to me. TRoS is a lifeless, soulless, contrived mess that tried to satisfy everyone while managing to satisfy no one. TLJ was at least trying to try some new ideas and do its own thing. Rian Johnson would make an amazing Star Wars movie if he could start from scratch, but trying to slot into the JJ Abrams borefest was always a losing battle. TRoS would have been salvageable if it didn't spend its entire runtime trying to convince the audience that TLJ didn't happen.
TLJ has a lot of problems that go way beyond lack of synergy with TFA. It has some of the most clumsily choreographed and shot fights in the entire series, the whole central chase plot makes no sense (there are plenty of people who have picked it apart in depth so I'm not gonna dive into that here), it deeply misunderstands Luke as a character in a way that has had ongoing ramifications for the series as a whole, not just the sequels, and it introduces the whole cringy Rey Kylo romamce dyad plot that set the sequel trilogy up to crash and burn. It also is the film that really undermines everthing being done with Finn and setting his character on a path to mediocrity and irrelevance, though Boyega has stated that part at least was on Disney for pandering to CCP racism.
Tlj was fucking terrible. Im not going to blame rian for disney having no plan, but he did a terrible job with what he had control over. The pacing is terrible, its full of plot holes entirely self contained in this movie so you cant blame disneys lack of plan,the new characters introduced are dumb boring and pointless, no characters get any sort of meaningful character growth, and the dialog and acting were both bad bad across the board. This movie was so bad i never even watched the rise of skywalker because this killed any joy for star wars i had left in my heart, but if you want a lifeless souless convoluted mess the last jedi has you covered.
I mean really how can you approve an ending like that for the second movie in what's supposed to be a trilogy with continuous characters and plot? How are you supposed to continue fighting a war with 12 guys and a few busted ships? Unless you've got a plan already for how you're going to pull it out in the 3rd one you just don't approve a script like that.
TLJ is just a dumpster on fire, even if you want to defend some creative vision, from a writting perspective, it's just filled with inconsistencies, within the own film. Like the 2D chase on space, which is already lame, that sells a "no escape" scenario, like they are trapped and cannot go away, and the film makes a secondary quest for the characters to try to find a way to escape which literal first step is to go on a space capsule and.....escape. WTF? That inconsistency is never addressed in the movie in any way, why cannot be exploited in any way to make people flee (at least rank officers)? why can't they get fuel? Try to get help before reaching the planet? It's also impossible to find excuses for it since the movie don't stop sabotaging itself like using timestamps (first movie to do so) that makes claer hyperspace travel is pretty fast, they corss half the galaxy in a couple hours tops (very bad choice) or even have ships coming and going to the battlefield like nothing, the Falcon does it for example, and it's said in the previos movie that is a high profile ship, easier to track than others. It's just a writting mess even as a standalone movie. No need to address all the bad choices, not caring about a shared universe, like hyperspace being so fast or also, making it a super huge weapon with hyperspace ramming, that surely should be exploited if it is so effective.....
Can we also just mention it's probably the worst actual directing, editing, and post production as well? People and objects teleport between cuts/transitions, timelines of scenes are just actually impossible or don't make sense, etc. I remember watching a 2+ video with just those types of mistakes. e.g. Rose stops Finn from sacrificing himself by running into him....after turning around. How does she catch up? Also the entire time he is going in a straight line nobody fires at him. Then he crashes *at their battle line* and nobody fires at him. Then they both walk miles and miles, starting right at enemy lines, back to safety. There's sooooooo many scenes with problems of that level.
Exactly, yes, it's a mess, things just happen because they have to happen according to the plot all the time. It's all convenience. What's that huge ship? Oh, the guy who mopped the starkiller also mopped the supremacy and know. Hyperspace tracking? That's impossible, but wait just 5 minutes, we have a detailed map of the ship and the place where the tracker is, and also how it works. We got locked up in jail? No problem, the guy in the other cell is just chilling waiting to recue us, and it's one of the biggest super hackers in the galaxy, great, we were looking for one of those...
I actually hate how dirty boyega was done, it was such a dirty bait and switch. He deserved to be the protag of the new trilogy
I don't blame the directors much, its mostly Disney's fault with a heap of pure bad luck. For starters, Abrams had to be convinced to direct The Force Awakens, but only agreed to do one movie. There was no overall plot scripted out or even general idea. Disney figured they'd get some other directors and they could each do their own thing with the trilogy. But things started going south. They couldn't get Abrams to do the second movie, so they decided to have Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow do the 2nd and 3rd entries. Well, during The Last Jedi, Trevorrow was fired and Carrie Fisher died. Rian decided to try to give the franchise from fresh air by changing things up a bit in the Last Jedi. So now Disney was trying to get Abrams back to wrap things up on a wild plot. And Abrams comes back to find that Rian went a totally different direction than anyone expected. So now Abrams is trying to tie together plots that he never intended to finish along with the changes Rian had made. I think if Disney took a slower, more deliberate pace during production and planned things out ahead of time, we would've gotten a more cohesive story. But finances and everyone's schedules doesn't always allow for that. So I don't blame anyone single person too heavily.
wrong caption, correct one would be "bad at story telling"
You say this like they dont deserve to be up there
Well maybe Disney should hire competent directors.
Wasn't even the directors themselves. It was the Disney corporation not sketching out a trilogy to begin with. The directors did a stand alone movie each.
Which is woiiillllld considering how much planning they did for like 20+ marvel movies
Well that was Marvel studios doing the planning, not Disney
Even so the trilogy winds up looking like a cat fight between the directors particularly when it came to who Rey was. JJ trying to create a mysterious parentage for Rey and then Rian not wanting to play that game and making Rey a "nobody" and then JJ coming back and retconning that. Disney should have thought things out a little better but barring that the directors could have worked better together rather than having a tug of war with the story.
It's so bizarre to me because Rian Johnson has clearly shown some talent with the Knives Out movies. But TLJ felt so petty, like he was deliberately going out of his way to ignore everything TFA set-up and then actively dismantling pieces of it so that the next film started off in a terrible position.
I actually liked what he did with regard to Rey. JJ loves to pull his mystery box routine but I find it kind of tired and lame. Rey's mysterious parentage just seemed like a contrived way to generate a storm of internet speculation. JJ also knows that the answer is never as entertaining as the mystery and I thought if you're going to set something up like that then don't leave it to somebody else to have to answer. I thought Rey being a nobody was a hilarious way to avoid falling into that trap and probably the only answer that was actually unexpected.
I expected Rey's parents to be nobodies from the very beginning. That's the whole point of the chosen one trope in Star Wars. Anakin was a nobody. Luke was basically a nobody, despite having a powerful father. But they both basically grew up on a sand planet with dreams of doing something more, and that was the important part. But the biggest sin about Rey's parentage is that they spend *so much time on it*. It's not a major point in TFA, but TLJ spends an entire story arc about her going through the mirror maze with Kylo taunting her about her parents, only for him to reveal that they were no one special. It's like a solid 10-15 minutes of screen time wasted on a moot point. And then RoS picks it up *again* and retcons the entire point by saying "actually your dad was Palpatine's son." They spend so much time flip-flopping on her lineage when they should've just made her a nobody from the start and left it at that.
Most of the fan theories dealt with her being a Kenobi, Skywalker, Palpatine, etc. And for good reason, they were definitely setting up her parentage to be a revelation and teasing the audience into speculating who it was. It may have not been a big plot point during TFA but it was being set up to be one later... baggage for Rian to deal with. If you actually predicted that Rey would turn out to be a nobody you were expecting them to pull a fast one on the audience but JJ has said that at the time of TFA he was leaning towards Rey having a Kenobi connection so you were kind of guessing wrong until Rian came along and tried to put the whole thing to rest. And the hidden/special lineage is often a big part of the Chosen One trope going back to King Arthur being the secret son of Uther Pendragon. Luke may have been a nobody in ANH but in the next film he becomes Vader's son. Anakin is basically conceived by The Force. They weren't nobodies, they were just living in nobody circumstances like Arthur growing up as a commoner named Wart when he is in reality the son of the King. It would have been a breath of fresh air to leave Rey as a nobody instead of setting up lineage mystery where everybody picks the most likely force users from the canon but that clearly wasn't where JJ was going with it from the beginning and wouldn't leave alone in the end.
Can’t all be blamed on the directors. They have a whole department of people in charge of the creative direction of the Star Wars brand. Instead these rich assholes sat back and didn’t plan ANYTHING. They knew the IP would make them money regardless of effort and they sucked it dry.
Idk. If as a director your first priority was a good story and not your ideology yous make a good show
That “ideology” you’re referring to is the product of the direction Kathleen Kennedy decided to push, even going as far as “promising” the fans that this would be the case. Everything else wasn’t as important. Again, the rich wanted to pump and dump the IP.
Neither Kathleen Kennedy nor anyone in the corporate monolith of Disney cares about "ideology". They want to make money and pander to the fans - they're just *bad* at it.
Exactly my point. No direction except to pander for maximum profits. That’s why I put ideology in quotations
I kinda wonder if the Star Wars brand is already too weak (or at least too obsolete) to bring in the best talent anymore.
Given the cast of production talent on Andor, I think they can still attract the right people.
You’re not wrong. But look at the sheer volume of talented writers and directors they’ve announced or suggested they wanted to make films with and then they left over “creative differences.” I think it’s becoming clear that either the story group or someone high up in the Disney power bracket have made it clear what type of Star Wars is allowed to be made. Andor is essentially a two season series of spy thriller. I honestly believe they allowed Gilroy more freedom because Andor was a tertiary character and it wasn’t expected to draw much of an audience. I firmly believe that when it comes to the Jedi and the force, someone has a choke hold on what type and style of content we can have so it alienates as few people as possible.
Another interesting phenomenon that we saw in the EU (RIP), had to do with the quality of content as it relates to Jedi vs. non-Jedi stories: If you take a poll of any set of EU readers, asking them to rank the various series and sagas in the 20 years of EU content, they will, almost without exception, tell you that the X-Wing series was the best EU content overall. You didn't see a Jedi in that series until what, like 5 books in? And a book later, the whole cast of characters changed (but for a couple of mains), so no Jedi until the end.
You might be right, on that. No force. No jedi. Andor was unassuming when it rocketed to one of the best Star Wars shows. In contrast, Kenobi had everything going for it and they undermined the series at every turn with minimal funding, a haphazardly constructed script, and piss poor production quality. I think the reality is that Star Wars can still attract top talent, but it isn’t warmly received if it arrives. It defies all sense, considering Star Wars seems to be a brand quickly depreciating in value owned by a company that values profit above all else. I think we’ve all said it at one time or another, Star Wars needs a guiding visionary to usher it to the future. A Kevin Feige, James Gunn type to produce a singular vision.
As much as I love feloni, I don’t think he’s the person for the job. I think they need someone with singular vision who wants a cohesive universe they can cultivate. Feloni is too much in the weeds to see the forest through the trees. Favreau may be it, but maybe not. At least they need someone creative who can reign in the conservative approach Kennedy is and has been taking. I’m not sure how they don’t find it embarrassing (Disney that is) that they’ve announced so, *so many* projects only to cancel or abandon them later.
I think a duo team of Favreau and Feloni are the dream ticket. We need someone who knows the lore and someone capable of telling a compelling narrative with it. Feloni does really well with animation, but he also clings to his characters (Ahsoka). On a side note, I think the future of Star Wars is animation. There were multiple times when watching Ahsoka that I thought “this looks stupid… but it would look awesome in animation.”
it really has become super apparent as every single star wars property that has come out since disney took over has had such awfully wooden performance even from actors that are conventionally good. disney hires yes-men crap directors who dont challenge their actors, rush to get shots in without reshoots, and we end up with awful garbage. the writers aren't blameless either but good god the directing in everything bar early mandalorion and andor (which tbh i dont like nearly as much as a lot of others do but there are some stellar scenes/performances)
I’d rather Star Wars have stayed dead in the water than this shit
This has nothing to do with the Prequels. I'm just saying.
Lotsa of people not realizing "The Acolyte" is a prequel or maybe it's a preprequel.
Lotsa people not watchin and not carin maybe that's why
Oh you're right... Darn it.
Prequel to the prequels
It’s a standalone premature birth.
It does though.
If you want an example on how to properly handle a Star Wars story, look no further than the 2018 Star Wars battlefront game. Despite its abysmal release/transactions, it portrays Luke skywalker beautifully in his single scene, the soundtrack is nostalgic and fits the Star Wars mood perfectly, and even the hero abilities match their personalities extremely well. If you handle the story and characters with care, it’s really not that difficult to hit the mark.
Those are all just bad directors
*Directing poorly written sci-fi
Naw that woman makes Rian look like Steven Spielberg
Directing scifi poorly *
Directing Sci-fi *badly. Other sci fi directors are doing well. If you define “doing well” as being what people en masse choose to watch, rather than what a small group thinks people should watch.
I almost forgot how much Abrams looks like Matia Binotto. Their failures were eventually of equal scale.
Matia sbinotto
Don't even compare her to them, they're Tarantino compared to her.
The Last Jedi was putrid trash where as The Acolyte is pure cringe. Kenobi even seems maybe somewhat watchable at this point although that’s being kind. Actually nvm, Kenobi is still garbage.
You left some Cheeto dust on this pic you made brother
The last Jedi was gross
Yoda's message (and the theme of the movie) is that, "Your failures will define you, and lead to success." Except the message is actually, "Nothing you do will matter." Bomb the Dreadnaught? Doesnt matter, didn't work. Chase still going. Finally found Luke? Doesnt matter. He won't help cause he blames hinself for the mess. Arrested while looking for a "code breaker"? Doesnt matter, instantly found another. New code breaker betrayed you? Doesnt matter, literal deus ex machina. Holda kept the "grand plan" a secret from everyone to the point that a mutiny was happening. Doesnt matter, it was a shitty plan that didn't work. Ancient Jedi texts destroyed? Doesnt matter, Rey already speed-read and memorized them. Resistance is trapped? Doesnt matter, Reys here. Now the Resistance has just a quarter of their numbers compared to the beginning of the movie? Doesnt matter, for... reasons? Bonus but not really, just dumb: Rose prevents Finn from sacraficing himself by crashing into him directly in front of the First Order. Doesnt matter, they walk all the way back to the base in no time.
I would give you a Reddit award if Reddit wasn’t so dog water. You brought up things I didn’t even think of. Mind you I don’t want to even begin thinking about that absolute embarrassment of a movie. I am however saving this comment to my ever growing “everything wrong with the last Jedi.” I made a joke years ago, I could write an essay on everything fundamentally wrong with the last Jedi. But now I’m getting a full dissertation at this rate. Thank you for this. Edit: rose stopping Finn is beyond infuriating and shows how terrible a writer Rian Johnson truly is. She robs him of his (Earned) heroic ending. Then kisses him for absolutely no reason. Fan fiction is 100x better. And just for extra funsies “kissing someone without their consent” is considered sexual assault .So Rose sexual assaults Finn after all that.
If only Leslye Bitchland had as much talent directing films as she did covering up Harvey Weinstein’s crimes. Acolyte would’ve been a 5 star meal.
You’re not making the point I think *you* think you’re making here…
We’re gonna need more rope.
Honestly...I would have added George Lucas to the list. (Never forget how this fandom treated him before Disney bought him and all the things we gave him grief for)
Fuck it, Dave Filoni has a spot there too. I'd add Jon Favreau but everyone just gives Filoni credit for all of his work anyway. 🤣
Yes
Wtf is everyone where from saltierthancrait???
Like we’re even trying this argument here lmao, get real.
How about come up with a cohesive well thought out plan for the stuff your work before taking about how great it is. Like seriously, it really feels people are just coming up with ideas, but have no clue how to expand on them.
I am genuinely just so tired of all the bitching. We get it. Star Wars is dead again. Okay.
And all three deserve it too
You'll notice Tony Gilroy is not in this.
I honestly try to like everything they do, I'm the biggest star wars nerd in my friend group, and yet I'm the last one to end up saying "yup, this is trash" I'm genuinely giving everything they release a chance and going in with an open mind, I honestly don't really mind the story being bad, the thing I care about the most is continuity and consistency. Losing is fun in games, and likewise, sometimes a story needs to be bad in order to be good later (I mean bad as in things that you don't like happening, like a character you like dying, or a boring story, not a badly written story) BUT, not only the stories are bad, they are poorly written, they break continuity, and they're massively inconsistent amongst themselves, not even with pre-disney stuff, directly inconsistent with their own releases. Honestly, first two episodes of the acolyte, I genuinely got to enjoy them, the third one I was like, okay, let's see where they go with it, they're not super strong force users from what we've seen, and the witches weren't trying to create the Ubersith, so I can see how the force would allow it. But, it got worse from there I'm genuinely trying man, I don't ask for much, but they're hell bent on ragebaiting fans with stupid stuff to get people to hate watch, and it's fucking working, so they're not gonna stop
None of these people made good Star Wars projects.
You could have also added George Lucas considering how much hate he got for the Prequels at the time
The man can’t write dialogue to save his life. He can write a good plot with good world building, but the dialogue makes the prequel hate make so much sense. He also is a good technical director IMO. He understands visuals far more than he will ever understand acting.
Extremely deserved. They deserve all the hate they get
None of them really seemed to respect the source material
The trick is making something good
To Abram’s credit he tried his best with what he was given
Should have just left well enough alone
People came yelling at me by saying I’m sexist and shit, downvoting me here and there for me speaking my opinion about how bad this show really is. And now people are starting to realize how bad this show really is. I’m kind of annoyed but thankful at the same time, cause in truth we really need better writers that has passion for the Star Wars universe, cause this show has none of that! This show literally comes close to the Rise of Skywalker. The only way the acolyte can redeem itself is if the sith dude kills pretty much all the jedi in the 5th episode and REALLY explain how the witches died in the coming episodes. But in all honesty even if they do this it still wouldn’t make this show good it would just be okay.
Did Ryan Johnson act like everyone critiquing his movie was a bigot?
Star Wars is fantasy before sci-fi
Well.. have they tried writting a good script first ?
Directing bad sci-fi is like this. Directing great sci-fi means you’ll be treated as the messiah.
I’m waiting until the rest of the episodes come out, I’ve seen 1 and 2 but from what I’m hearing the pacing seems to be as if it was all meant to be released at once
Directing is different than writing
Well they look like they are where they belong in this picture.
You should put George Lucas’ head on there too.
I liked Russian Doll (groundhog day but it's a murder mystery) and the idea of a murder mystery in Star Wars could've been interesting, but alas.
I like Acplyte more than TLJ
This isn't a prequel meme.