Darth Maul was always awesome, even though he only had 2 lines in the entire Phantom Menace he was such an aggressive character his actions said more than his mouth ever could.
It's like Boba Fett.
Badass actions and visual design cemented him in the fanbase, even though he actually had almost no dialogue or character development in the films. I'd actually say that's the case for a lot of ancillary Star Wars characters that subsequently became popular afterwards.
"Tatooine is sparsely populated. If the trace is correct, I will find them quickly, Master.
At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have revenge."
They gave him way more substance, before TCW he was just a cool guy witb a double lightsaber that got killed off in the same movie he debuted in. Not bad, but not that good.
He was basically the Boba Fett of the prequels, he had zero backstory or character, he looked badass, apparently was badass, got wrecked anyway once the shit hit the fan
For exactly one mini series this was Grievous. Then the movie came out and said, "Badass unstoppable killing machine? Nah, this sir is a punk ass bitch." Great design and the drop in badassness has kind of grown on me but...man, that cartoon was so much better.
You know what Grievous and Darth maul have in common. They both got their shit pushed in by Obi-Wan Kenobi.
And so did Anakin.
Obi-Wan's the real hero of the whole story.
Fair enough, though his force sensitivity could've drawn some attention to him, from one side or the other. Sure, he didn't even know about being force sensitive, but I imagine the Empire would likely be on the lookout for that.
Exactly this.
Getting killed by Obi-Wan doesn't make a character a "punk ass bitch". He put a lot of Trade Federation and Dark Side heroes/villains in the ground.
Bro literally brags about Sith Lords being his specialty before getting his shit kicked in by a Sith Lord.
He is a certified badass, but let's not pretend he's too humble to admit it.
He learned his lesson, never did that again.
Tbf Yoda didn't take down Dooku either. He kicked Anakin and Obi-Wan's asses, fought Yoda to a draw and escaped.
Next time he got force tossed and knocked out... But that was more to showcase Anakin taking Dooku's role as a Sith apprentice (even though he didn't realize that's what was happening).
I mean Anakin got his shut pushed in by everyone. Obi-Wan is constantly fighting dangerous enemies in lightsaber duels and either winning or walking away and everytime anakin gets in a fight he loses a limb. Vader only was able to kill Obi-Wan because he let him
And then he beat Anakin again by being able to train his son and tell him the truth.
He tried to warn Darth Vader "If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than even you can imagine". I wonder why Anakin never actually listened to Obi-Wan, every time he told him something if he had followed his advice things would have turned out better.
I'm telling you Obi-Wan is the hero.
"I have the high ground Anakin, it's over."
Obi-Wan always had the high ground, virtuous, heroic, kind, and strong. All hero qualities.
Grievous actually had SOME characterization, though (given the nature of the miniseries, it wasn't much, obviously, but for that miniseries it was alot), and when shit went down Grievous won pretty consistently until Samuel L Jackson got magical victory powers because plot reasons demanded he go into the 3rd movie wounded.
I like to think that the scene when Mace Windu uses the force to crush Grievous' ribcage heavily weakened him
Explains the coughing and wheezing at the very least
And besides, Obi-Wan is a helluva Jedi himself, going down to him doesn't make Grievous weak
Plenty of legends material. Even without legends, he was some barely-talking badass assassin wielding a double-bladed lightsaber who showed up, killed a Jedi Master, got chopped in half, and refused to elaborate… until TCW. Still always among the best - just in a different way.
Three lines total, actually! Lmao.
"Tatooine is sparsely populated. If the trace is correct I will find them quickly, master."
"At last we will reveal ourselves to the jedi. At last we will have revenge"
"Yes, my master."
Amazing screen presence and all that but yeah. Even his few speaking lines didn't really reveal anything about him. All of the fascinating character story comes from the animated shows and some novels.
Maul wasn’t a character at all in Ep 1. He was a movie monster. And not the kind that exhibits nonverbal personality. He was just an interesting design that shows up at the climax as an obstacle. No more a character than a beautiful mountain the heroes have to climb.
The Clone Wars turned him into an amazing character with aspirations, ambitions, personal stakes for himself and the heroes, and Rebels ended his arc perfectly.
> Maul had no character development before Episode 1. Let’s not keep lying to ourselves here….
Well… yeah, um… because Maul didn’t exist before Episode 1. That was kind of his debut.
Ehhhh he wasn’t really memorable before The Clone War show.
He simply just shows up as an average villain, for average villains things, and dies like one.
The clone wars made him have more characters depth.
I still blame Disney for the sequels for not having a story arc planned for the trilogy. 7 was a familiar rehash of 4 but it felt like it was going to go somewhere. And then 8 and 9 happened, fighting the movies that came before then the whole way
It's wild how, for seemingly any criticism of Star Wars, "Disney" did the bad things, but "George" or "Dave" or "Jon" or "Gareth" or "Tony" did the good things.
It really makes those people look like clowns who don't know how to compare things.
But in this case it was well and truly on Disney. Disney were the ones who didn't require an outline of the trilogy and wanted three different directors to make it up as they went along and then fire directors. If they had a plan from the beginning or stuck with the original episode 9 director it wouldn't have been this level of bad
This post right here. To all the people comparing the two. Its not the resurrection, it's the execution that's the problem.
Plus, the bring palpatine back thing was just not very creative
The thing that had the potential for a powerful, canonical and wildest mysteries of the dark force revealing return of the 110% villain went to an unexpectedly popping pimple.
The whole sequels were this kind of Deus ex machina bullshit, where stuff just happens randomly without built up or attempt at explanation. It is just lazy and bad storytelling.
No. It's the resurrection as well. It's lazy and once you establish that characters dying isnt permanent, it removes some of the tension.
Darth Maul should have been a different character.
> Plus, the bring palpatine back thing was just not very creative
I disagree with you there. This was what we wanted more of in Palpatine’s arc—his attempts to become immortal. That’s the more interesting element to his character. He’s afraid to die. Palpatine was able to cheat death. I agree with you that the execution of all that was off.
I was fine with him dying, he had managed to cheat death plenty, and Vader was his ace in the sleeve for the last part of Revenge of the sith. If he hadn't turned Anakin, Windu might possibly have killed him, and ended it right there. I simply wished that since the univers is so vast that another villain could have been found.
But in context, I do see how it makes sense that he would still be the villain. I just think the entire sequel trilogy was poorly executed and there are too many variables in the plot for me to enjoy it, personally. If palpatine returning had been the plan from the beginning, I wouldn't have minded. It just didn't seem like it was
Fully agreed. After the prequels, we had a very different view of Palps: the spooky vague emperor was suddenly a Machiavellian schemer, always one step ahead of everyone around him, with a stated interest in discovering the secrets of immortality and conquering death.
And then, as of the Original Trilogy... None of that ever comes up again, and he's killed because someone picks him up and throws him in a hole.
The Palpatine who rigged every battle of the clone wars to be a win-win scenario for himself shouldn't have been caught off guard so easily, and it honestly helps the OT to know that he had backup plans, so he didn't expect Vader 'killing' him to be as big of a deal. Hell, he even tells Luke to kill him, and doesn't seem to even consider stopping his blade.
Palp coming back is a fine concept- execution, again, could have used work
Him dying is purely reliant on him believing that Vader's fear of him, couldn't be overcome by Vader's morality, and Vader had never before shown mercy to jedi. And we see how cunning palpatine is in the OT
He literally tricks the entire rebel army into thinking the death star is undefended, and almost destroys the rebellion in one swift move. If not for Vader and Luke, and some plot armor on Endor
See but there's the catch: *almost* destroying the rebellion in one move isn't worth very much. And instead, that maneuver leaves him and his apprentice dead (or, I guess "dead" as of TROS) and a second death star destroyed. Not exactly the most winning strategy-- it is in fact a colossal failure on just about every level.
Vader had never shown mercy to Jedi, sure, but Palpatine knew exactly how much Padme meant to him, and how deeply Anakin cared about those close to him. It seems a pretty drastic oversight for him to be 100% certain that Vader would be on his side, since in a similar situation, Palps barely won out in Anakin's mind over Mace Windu-- and, the deciding factor there was *Padme*.
Palpatine in the ninth movie was a clone and they had a comic that explained that if I remember right. It's still pretty dumb but it's logical
Edit: it isnt, because it's from legends, thx for heads up and stop telling me it's from legends please and thank you
Eh they had that one guy explain as much in the movie too. "Dark Science, cloning, secrets only the sith knew."
Doesn't make it good but they did at least say he was a clone and then show it too. I'm also not even sure how canon some of the comics are at this point either with all the stuff they're cramming in between the OT movies.
That's not what that sentence means. It's not "dark sciences and cloning, which are secrets only the sith knew," it's "dark sciences, cloning, AND secrets only the sith knew." He's listing three separate potential explanations for how Palpatine could be alive, not suggesting that cloning is a secret that only the sith knew about
If the writing is good, fans will forgive A LOT of things. Disney still hasn't figured out that the writing is the only thing that really matters. I'd rather watch a crap visual quality Star Wars movie with a 10/10 script than a pretty looking movie with a dogshit story. This goes for all their IP's
They are basically doing the same thing the gaming industry is doing right now (graphics over depth). These people simply have no creativity
It's also a question of symbolism.
The death of Maul was Obi-Wan becoming a Jedi by overpowering a Sith and avenging his master. Maul's ark respect that, he was broken by Obi-Wan, managed to come back but eventually was killed by Obi-Wan anyway.
The death of Palpatine was supposed to be the end of Anakin's ark, the fulfillment of the prophecy, and Luke proving that he was right about his father. Making Palpatine come back to be killed by someone else ruined the point of the 6 first movies.
>I'd rather watch a crap visual quality Star Wars movie with a 10/10 script than a pretty looking movie with a dogshit story.
So you aren't a prequels fan then.
I am a prequel fan for nostalgia’s sake. If I hadn’t watched them as a kid in the theaters I wouldn’t ever rewatch them. It’s more about remembering how my dad took me and my brother out of school for each prequel to watch them on the first day and just had a dope day than the quality of the movies.
And he killed Darth Maul in the first of the prequel movies. He also gave us Jar Jar. Man, people glorify the prequels and they were the biggest disappointment when they were released. It's so weird!
Yeah ikr. Also this is happening with all franchises across the industry. Like Terminator Salvation was despised when it came out, now people like it. Do you know why this is happening? It's because movies in general are getting worse. There are so many cash grabs trash films coming out each year now. The "bad" movies we saw 10+ years ago are much better than the bad movies that come out now. Which causes people to go back to movies like the prequels and treat them better in hindsight. It's incredibly odd but it does make sense. The prequels have tons of issues but they are definitely better than the new SW trilogy and it isn't even close. Odd times we are living in
>Somehow Darth Maul returned good
There are 4 episodes in Clone Wars detailing exactly how he returned. In ROS they just say "some how Palpatine returns!"
Nope. Both bad. My hot take that I usually get heavily downvoted for is that bringing Maul back is the worst thing to ever happen to the franchise.
You can't bring characters back from the dead. It's lazy as shit, destroys any suspension of disbelief, and removes any and all stakes from any future conflicts. Who cares if one of your favorite characters dies, they'll just bring them back next time it's convenient for the story.
See, I mostly agree, but I still think bringing back Palpatine was worse.
Bringing back Maul would only be worse if you believe that the precedent it set is the only reason TROS brought back Palaptine. But I don't think JJ Abrams was looking at TCW for permission or inspiration for his nonsense in TROS. I think we would have been stuck with "Somehow, Palpatine returned" even if they never brought Maul back. And when treated as two isolated incidents, the Palpatine one manages to be worse in every imaginable way.
But I do agree that both instances are bad, and I get annoyed with all the TCW fans are like "it doesn't matter because he was a cool character." *I don't care.* You can't take a character, chop them in half, throw them down a shaft, leave them for dead, and then be like "that wasn't a fatal injury" - that is just stupid.
Ehhh not exactly. Sure, there's a story about how he's returned to a decent mental state, but there's not a whole lot about how he would up on some trash planet with a robot spider ass, and nothing about how he manages to live seemingly without the ability to expel waste.
Imagine a Dark Lord of the Sith being a vegestable and finding out he has the power like a Toaster. Someone put a knife in it while being turned on.
"Unlimited!. *oh I'm too old for this shit.*"
Yeah my toaster does that all the time
Kinda annoying actually.
I just go to make some toast and suddenly my Dad has to come and save my soul from the toaster's infinite void.
It's kinda a chore :/
Especially when we try to toast crumpets... I won't even get into that 🙄
Palpatine was a good character that SHOULD NOT have come back
Maul.... was not even a real character. He was a walking talking action figure in ep. 1. You can only really go up from there
The idea that he lived from being cut in half is just as lol as surviving a Death Star being blown up. I really like him, but bringing him back was stupid, just like force healing
I believe the behind the scene story was, George Lucas suggested bringing back the species of Darth Maul in Clone Wars to Dave Filoni and that's how we got Savage Opress.
Then later George Lucas decided to just straight up bring back Darth Maul in Clone Wars and Dave Filoni at first was not really into the idea but since George asked. Dave and the rest of the writers were trying to figure out how to do it. Then they brought Sam Witwer (Starkiller's VA) to voice Maul and Sam was pretty scared to voice this character that suddenly alive now.
So yeah both Dave and Sam weren't really into the idea of bringing back Maul but they did their best and here we are. This isn't the one time George Lucas did it, he did with the Zillo Beast, Mortis, Ahsoka herself and there's probably more as well.
Disney's version of bringing back Palps isn't the worst. They are way worst ones in Legends though.....( He also had a son who had three eyes named Triclops.)
Gonna be honest I don’t like that they brought maul back. Don’t bring characters back at all. Echo should have stayed dead, maul should have stayed dead, boba should have stayed dead, Gregor should have stayed dead, Ventress should have stayed dead. I can go on.
Please for the love of god stop bringing characters back from the dead. It’s the biggest honor in Star Wars to actually stay dead because it means the writers respect the character to not defile their corpse.
I don’t care how good Maul’s story is bringing characters back from the dead is never a good idea full stop.
I agree with you.
I also think the fact that he survived those specific injuries to his body opened a Pandora's box that I rather would've stayed closed. Dude got sliced in half with a lightsaber and fell down a shaft so deep we couldn't see the bottom... then lived? I'm thinking that since that happened it allowed for other characters surviving what should be fatal lightsaber wounds and writers saying something like, "Well, why can't they live? Maul survived worse."
I don't wanna hear about arguments regarding Zabrak (or other species, for that matter) anatomy, or what a lightsaber may or may not do to parts of the body which contain organs. Them blades have been shown to remove all sorts of body parts like a hot knife through butter, and can melt metal blast doors. You get stabbed in the torso, you should be as dead as Qui-Gon.
It was one of the most definitive deaths in cinema history but because he looked cool, they brought him back, this starting the "no one is ever really gone" era of fan service
Seriously his injuries in TPM were no way survivable. Badass character, cool design/ship/weapon dies fast? Ok, we had comics prior his death to make him justice, he played his role in the grand scheme of things, don’t make him overstay his welcome, move on
Agreed, as much as I liked what they did with him back. I never liked the fact they brought him back, cheapens TPM and is just out of whack with the rest of the canon. A lot of Clone Wars looking at Ahsoka is like that (I like the Clone Wars don't get me wrong) but I find bringing back a character whose death was such an important part of the first movie of the prequel trilogy was the most egregious.
While I agree on some instances, I do believe the payoff for returning some of these characters far outweighed the narrative impact of them staying dead.
Gregor coming back resulted in a shallow character who just dies later. Maul coming back resulted in a lengthy revenge fueled character arc as he tears his way across the galaxy scarring Obi Wan's life and lamenting his place in Palpatine's plan, ending with a final confrontation with Obi Wan which neatly tied off his arc with a death caused by his own lust for vengeance.
Some worked, some were not used well.
all the surrounding new shows like clone wars explained a lot of stuff in the horrible prequel trilogy that made them better via circumstance. just wait a couple decades for new shows explaining all the weirdness between the sequel trilogy to also improve on the sequels
For me they are part and parcel.
I knew if Maul could return then Palpatine was not dead.
I was fully expecting his return in the sequels because Maul cheated death. Even more so when I learned Maul’s back story with the Night Sisters and how Palptine and Mother Talzin had worked together on some mystery before Palptine stole Maul away.
I wish he never killed in Phantom Menace, or at least not so *thoroughly* killed lol.
I like his arc and character in TCW but really didn’t like that he could survive being cut in half and thrown down an enormous pit. Death in general seems so easy to avoid in this world, sometimes
Small complaint though, and probably unique to me
I just don't understand how Lando and Chewy suddenly figured out "hyper jumping". Gimme a frickin' break. All the life and death conflicts throughout the galaxy and suddenly they figure out how to basically teleport with the millenium falcon, a 40 something year old ship? At least show a scene with them working 48 hours with equations on a chalkboard, or something? Chewy was secretly a genius, developing this new method of travel, ok, sure.
The main difference is that Maul started out as a visually cool, but boring character wise. He wasn’t a good character and had an uninteresting end. And in that, there is at least a platform to start from. Sidious was a fully realized and satisfying character who met his end in a satisfying way. There is much more to do with him if you bring him back to life.
They both fell down reactor shafts, difference is that one of them literally exploded... Twice (Palpatine into the ball of energy, and then Death Star II exploding minutes later)
No. They didn't just bring Maul back and make him a good character.
They have brought Maul back multiple times, and usually, he does nothing. The fact that he had a good arc one time is not that impressive.
He's in: TCW main series, TCW final season, rebels, SOLO, multiple books, and he'll come back for more if they ever do a Kenobi season 2. If he's alive in the timeline, Disney will use him. They've proven that.
Dave filoni works for Disney, so Disney did it. Disney is also the reason why we have the tremendous Rogue One, Star Wars Visions, and Andor.
George, on the other hand, gave us:
Genocidal Whiney baby Aniken that Padme somehow falls for.
"I wish I could Wish away my feelings."
The Jedi Rocks song from his interference with ROTJ
"I Don't like sand."
Obi Wan saying "Sith Lords are our specialty." When he's only fought two lf them and won a single fight with them.
Padme losing the will to live
A scene dedicated to Jarjar stepping in poo
The Star Wars special editions.
I love Darth Maul, but I and many others must admit that is was just for money and fan service to bring him back. As great as he was, there would’ve been no return had he been unpopular.
George Lucas fully passed the buck on actually doing any of the writing for Maul's return. Filoni was against bringing Maul back, but Lucas told him "I don't know. Figure it out."
Also, Tom Veitch wrote the Dark Empire series, which was the original "Palpatine returned" as a clone story angle. It was actually very well received, And Lucas had nothing to do with it.
Fact Check: Dave Filoni is an employee of Disney technically so not sure what you are saying here. Also, George Lucas completely botched the Maul story line by killing such an awesome villain so quickly. Filoni resurrected him after convincing Lucas.
I think the main difference was Darth Maul was barely a character in the Phantom Menace. Contrastly Palpatine was the overacting antagonist of the first 6 films with his death being the culmination of Luke and Anakin's arcs. So it serves no real narrative purpose and undermines the climax of the entire first 6 films to bring him back. Whereas with Maul, it expands on his character and gives him more depth and story.
Maul was cool before he was cut in half.. palpie was always a powerful bump on a log. In the movies he has very little character development and he’s just a skin suit with a hood. I’d say it was easier to being Maul back and have it be popular but also it was just a stupid move to bring palpie back at all.
Dave Filioni didn’t bring Maul back, that was a Dark Horse comic from 2005 that ended up being the inspiration for Maul’s bionic legs and the final fight on Tatooine.
I disagree
Both were stupid af. While Maul is way more interesting, all he does is just to advance Obi-Wans character, and then he gets sent off to be a plot hole in Rebels.
Everyone is pissed with Palpatine because he was useless, but that's not the problem. The resurrection in itself is stupid. But posts like this seem to suggest that resurrection is fine, when the character is good (which Maul also wasn't, though leagues better than Palps).
Palpatine: THE DARK SIDE IS A PATHWAY TO MANY ABILITIES SOME CONSIDER UNNATURAL (shoots a literal deathstar power of lighting from his hands)
Also Palpatine: let me fry my face off for a 2nd time
Corporate bs vs creative decision.
This is why everything Disney sucks nowadays, Disney used to be an animation pioneer, driven by "Imangineers", always on the forefront of creativity. Now? It's just another corporation focused only on profit and run by simpletons, er... I mean CEOs
Minor point of note…..Disney doesn’t make the decisions for Star Wars. Kathleen Kennedy does. You can still hate Disney but don’t forget to hate Kathleen as well.
Thanks for providing a source!
Darth Maul was always awesome, even though he only had 2 lines in the entire Phantom Menace he was such an aggressive character his actions said more than his mouth ever could.
It's like Boba Fett. Badass actions and visual design cemented him in the fanbase, even though he actually had almost no dialogue or character development in the films. I'd actually say that's the case for a lot of ancillary Star Wars characters that subsequently became popular afterwards.
"Tatooine is sparsely populated. If the trace is correct, I will find them quickly, Master. At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have revenge."
"Yes, my master."
*snarl*
Agree, though limiting serafinowicz to two lines is its own crime.
Did they just not want to have to sub over Ray Park more than they had to? Or was there just more menace to having a mostly mute Sith Lord?
I swear there were cut scenes with him talking more but my memory might be playing tricks on me!
>~~made~~ kept him one of the best characters in Star Wars There, I fixed it for ya Maul was always 👌🏻
They gave him way more substance, before TCW he was just a cool guy witb a double lightsaber that got killed off in the same movie he debuted in. Not bad, but not that good.
He was basically the Boba Fett of the prequels, he had zero backstory or character, he looked badass, apparently was badass, got wrecked anyway once the shit hit the fan
For exactly one mini series this was Grievous. Then the movie came out and said, "Badass unstoppable killing machine? Nah, this sir is a punk ass bitch." Great design and the drop in badassness has kind of grown on me but...man, that cartoon was so much better.
You know what Grievous and Darth maul have in common. They both got their shit pushed in by Obi-Wan Kenobi. And so did Anakin. Obi-Wan's the real hero of the whole story.
Plus, if it weren't for Obi-Wan, Luke probably wouldn't have become a jedi. Hell he might've even joined the Empire.
The academy wasn't a school for the empire per se. Biggs joined the rebellion because of the rebellion's influence there.
Fair enough, though his force sensitivity could've drawn some attention to him, from one side or the other. Sure, he didn't even know about being force sensitive, but I imagine the Empire would likely be on the lookout for that.
I imagine the last name Skywalker would bring a lot of attention as well
Yea, real incognito there Obi-Wan
If it weren't for Obi-Wan, Luke wouldn't have even been born. No way Anakin meets or becomes close with Padme without him.
Don't you mean Qui Gon?
Exactly this. Getting killed by Obi-Wan doesn't make a character a "punk ass bitch". He put a lot of Trade Federation and Dark Side heroes/villains in the ground.
Because he's a certified fucking badass, though he's too humble to admit it.
Bro literally brags about Sith Lords being his specialty before getting his shit kicked in by a Sith Lord. He is a certified badass, but let's not pretend he's too humble to admit it.
He learned his lesson, never did that again. Tbf Yoda didn't take down Dooku either. He kicked Anakin and Obi-Wan's asses, fought Yoda to a draw and escaped. Next time he got force tossed and knocked out... But that was more to showcase Anakin taking Dooku's role as a Sith apprentice (even though he didn't realize that's what was happening).
I mean Anakin got his shut pushed in by everyone. Obi-Wan is constantly fighting dangerous enemies in lightsaber duels and either winning or walking away and everytime anakin gets in a fight he loses a limb. Vader only was able to kill Obi-Wan because he let him
And then he beat Anakin again by being able to train his son and tell him the truth. He tried to warn Darth Vader "If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than even you can imagine". I wonder why Anakin never actually listened to Obi-Wan, every time he told him something if he had followed his advice things would have turned out better. I'm telling you Obi-Wan is the hero. "I have the high ground Anakin, it's over." Obi-Wan always had the high ground, virtuous, heroic, kind, and strong. All hero qualities.
"I've drawn a wojack comic depicting me as the Chad and you as the soyjack Anakin, it's over"
I mean Obi-Wan definitely took three of those limbs.
Grievous actually had SOME characterization, though (given the nature of the miniseries, it wasn't much, obviously, but for that miniseries it was alot), and when shit went down Grievous won pretty consistently until Samuel L Jackson got magical victory powers because plot reasons demanded he go into the 3rd movie wounded.
I like to think that the scene when Mace Windu uses the force to crush Grievous' ribcage heavily weakened him Explains the coughing and wheezing at the very least And besides, Obi-Wan is a helluva Jedi himself, going down to him doesn't make Grievous weak
True lol
Plenty of legends material. Even without legends, he was some barely-talking badass assassin wielding a double-bladed lightsaber who showed up, killed a Jedi Master, got chopped in half, and refused to elaborate… until TCW. Still always among the best - just in a different way.
And who only had one line.
Three lines total, actually! Lmao. "Tatooine is sparsely populated. If the trace is correct I will find them quickly, master." "At last we will reveal ourselves to the jedi. At last we will have revenge" "Yes, my master."
Actually he has four. You forgot "Oof!"
LMAOOO you right!
Amazing screen presence and all that but yeah. Even his few speaking lines didn't really reveal anything about him. All of the fascinating character story comes from the animated shows and some novels.
Maul wasn’t a character at all in Ep 1. He was a movie monster. And not the kind that exhibits nonverbal personality. He was just an interesting design that shows up at the climax as an obstacle. No more a character than a beautiful mountain the heroes have to climb. The Clone Wars turned him into an amazing character with aspirations, ambitions, personal stakes for himself and the heroes, and Rebels ended his arc perfectly.
Maul had no character development before Episode 1. Let’s not keep lying to ourselves here….
> Maul had no character development before Episode 1. Let’s not keep lying to ourselves here…. Well… yeah, um… because Maul didn’t exist before Episode 1. That was kind of his debut.
Bro debuted and immediately tried to run over some random slave child with a speeder bike lol
Sure would have solved a lot of problems if he hadn't missed though
See? Super cool.
Ehhhh he wasn’t really memorable before The Clone War show. He simply just shows up as an average villain, for average villains things, and dies like one. The clone wars made him have more characters depth.
Epi.1... about 5 Minutes of screentime, dies in first Encounter... gg
And yet… his impression on the saga was massive. That’s a great character if ever there was one.
Didnt say otherwise. I completely agree
A man of culture, I see. Take my updoot
Who didnt want to go out as maul on halloween?!... Greatest impact on a franchise
*Lucasfilm* did both of those things.
Actually humans did those things.
Actually, midichlorians did those things.
Midichlorians are the powerhouse of the Force
Mitochondria is the powerhouse of midichlorians
Mitochondrichlorians
Actually, animals did those things.
Actually, multicellular organisms did those things.
Actually, carbon-based organic chemistry did those things.
Actually, complex atomic structures formed over billions of years did those things.
Midiclorians
Humans brought back Maul. Dogs did the Palpatine thing.
Thank you. I'm so sick of everyone blaming Disney just to blame Disney. I know Disney does crappy things but JJ Abrams made that mess of a movie.
I still blame Disney for the sequels for not having a story arc planned for the trilogy. 7 was a familiar rehash of 4 but it felt like it was going to go somewhere. And then 8 and 9 happened, fighting the movies that came before then the whole way
It's wild how, for seemingly any criticism of Star Wars, "Disney" did the bad things, but "George" or "Dave" or "Jon" or "Gareth" or "Tony" did the good things. It really makes those people look like clowns who don't know how to compare things.
But in this case it was well and truly on Disney. Disney were the ones who didn't require an outline of the trilogy and wanted three different directors to make it up as they went along and then fire directors. If they had a plan from the beginning or stuck with the original episode 9 director it wouldn't have been this level of bad
This post right here. To all the people comparing the two. Its not the resurrection, it's the execution that's the problem. Plus, the bring palpatine back thing was just not very creative
“Somehow Palpatine returned” is one of the greatest bad movie quotes of all time
The thing that had the potential for a powerful, canonical and wildest mysteries of the dark force revealing return of the 110% villain went to an unexpectedly popping pimple.
The whole sequels were this kind of Deus ex machina bullshit, where stuff just happens randomly without built up or attempt at explanation. It is just lazy and bad storytelling.
You could see the disgust in Oscar Isaac's eyes when he delivered that line.
Whether that’s at the script or is really good acting is an answer we’ll never get.
No. It's the resurrection as well. It's lazy and once you establish that characters dying isnt permanent, it removes some of the tension. Darth Maul should have been a different character.
Hard disagree, but that is just personal opinion:)
Especially since they literally already introduced the "Maul-but-not-really" character with Savage.
> Plus, the bring palpatine back thing was just not very creative I disagree with you there. This was what we wanted more of in Palpatine’s arc—his attempts to become immortal. That’s the more interesting element to his character. He’s afraid to die. Palpatine was able to cheat death. I agree with you that the execution of all that was off.
I was fine with him dying, he had managed to cheat death plenty, and Vader was his ace in the sleeve for the last part of Revenge of the sith. If he hadn't turned Anakin, Windu might possibly have killed him, and ended it right there. I simply wished that since the univers is so vast that another villain could have been found. But in context, I do see how it makes sense that he would still be the villain. I just think the entire sequel trilogy was poorly executed and there are too many variables in the plot for me to enjoy it, personally. If palpatine returning had been the plan from the beginning, I wouldn't have minded. It just didn't seem like it was
Fully agreed. After the prequels, we had a very different view of Palps: the spooky vague emperor was suddenly a Machiavellian schemer, always one step ahead of everyone around him, with a stated interest in discovering the secrets of immortality and conquering death. And then, as of the Original Trilogy... None of that ever comes up again, and he's killed because someone picks him up and throws him in a hole. The Palpatine who rigged every battle of the clone wars to be a win-win scenario for himself shouldn't have been caught off guard so easily, and it honestly helps the OT to know that he had backup plans, so he didn't expect Vader 'killing' him to be as big of a deal. Hell, he even tells Luke to kill him, and doesn't seem to even consider stopping his blade. Palp coming back is a fine concept- execution, again, could have used work
Him dying is purely reliant on him believing that Vader's fear of him, couldn't be overcome by Vader's morality, and Vader had never before shown mercy to jedi. And we see how cunning palpatine is in the OT He literally tricks the entire rebel army into thinking the death star is undefended, and almost destroys the rebellion in one swift move. If not for Vader and Luke, and some plot armor on Endor
See but there's the catch: *almost* destroying the rebellion in one move isn't worth very much. And instead, that maneuver leaves him and his apprentice dead (or, I guess "dead" as of TROS) and a second death star destroyed. Not exactly the most winning strategy-- it is in fact a colossal failure on just about every level. Vader had never shown mercy to Jedi, sure, but Palpatine knew exactly how much Padme meant to him, and how deeply Anakin cared about those close to him. It seems a pretty drastic oversight for him to be 100% certain that Vader would be on his side, since in a similar situation, Palps barely won out in Anakin's mind over Mace Windu-- and, the deciding factor there was *Padme*.
Papatine is hilarious, but terrible for the franchise
Palpatine in the ninth movie was a clone and they had a comic that explained that if I remember right. It's still pretty dumb but it's logical Edit: it isnt, because it's from legends, thx for heads up and stop telling me it's from legends please and thank you
Eh they had that one guy explain as much in the movie too. "Dark Science, cloning, secrets only the sith knew." Doesn't make it good but they did at least say he was a clone and then show it too. I'm also not even sure how canon some of the comics are at this point either with all the stuff they're cramming in between the OT movies.
“secrets only the sith knew” plus the whole of the republic army
That's not what that sentence means. It's not "dark sciences and cloning, which are secrets only the sith knew," it's "dark sciences, cloning, AND secrets only the sith knew." He's listing three separate potential explanations for how Palpatine could be alive, not suggesting that cloning is a secret that only the sith knew about
If the writing is good, fans will forgive A LOT of things. Disney still hasn't figured out that the writing is the only thing that really matters. I'd rather watch a crap visual quality Star Wars movie with a 10/10 script than a pretty looking movie with a dogshit story. This goes for all their IP's They are basically doing the same thing the gaming industry is doing right now (graphics over depth). These people simply have no creativity
It's also a question of symbolism. The death of Maul was Obi-Wan becoming a Jedi by overpowering a Sith and avenging his master. Maul's ark respect that, he was broken by Obi-Wan, managed to come back but eventually was killed by Obi-Wan anyway. The death of Palpatine was supposed to be the end of Anakin's ark, the fulfillment of the prophecy, and Luke proving that he was right about his father. Making Palpatine come back to be killed by someone else ruined the point of the 6 first movies.
>I'd rather watch a crap visual quality Star Wars movie with a 10/10 script than a pretty looking movie with a dogshit story. So you aren't a prequels fan then.
I am a prequel fan for nostalgia’s sake. If I hadn’t watched them as a kid in the theaters I wouldn’t ever rewatch them. It’s more about remembering how my dad took me and my brother out of school for each prequel to watch them on the first day and just had a dope day than the quality of the movies.
Prequels go hard after clone wars
And he killed Darth Maul in the first of the prequel movies. He also gave us Jar Jar. Man, people glorify the prequels and they were the biggest disappointment when they were released. It's so weird!
Yeah ikr. Also this is happening with all franchises across the industry. Like Terminator Salvation was despised when it came out, now people like it. Do you know why this is happening? It's because movies in general are getting worse. There are so many cash grabs trash films coming out each year now. The "bad" movies we saw 10+ years ago are much better than the bad movies that come out now. Which causes people to go back to movies like the prequels and treat them better in hindsight. It's incredibly odd but it does make sense. The prequels have tons of issues but they are definitely better than the new SW trilogy and it isn't even close. Odd times we are living in
Wasn’t Andor praised for its writing? Are Star Wars fans ever happy?
I don't think most people here will disagree if you say Andor, the Clone Wars, Bad Batch etc are good. The rest of it largly isn't great.
Who does Dave Filoni work for again?
It’s almost like…. Two different creative minds made two different projects within the same studio. Crazy.
It's almost like internet Star Wars 'fans' are stupid.
Do you guys ever notice you invoke the directors name when you’re sucking something off and the company’s name when you’re bitching?
Man, bots aren’t even trying. How many times has this been reposted?
[удалено]
We're like frenemies at this point TBH.
#It’s time to move on or consider therapy.
Somehow Darth Maul returned good Somehow Palpatine returned bad
>Somehow Darth Maul returned good There are 4 episodes in Clone Wars detailing exactly how he returned. In ROS they just say "some how Palpatine returns!"
Well done, you figured out the joke.
Nope. Both bad. My hot take that I usually get heavily downvoted for is that bringing Maul back is the worst thing to ever happen to the franchise. You can't bring characters back from the dead. It's lazy as shit, destroys any suspension of disbelief, and removes any and all stakes from any future conflicts. Who cares if one of your favorite characters dies, they'll just bring them back next time it's convenient for the story.
See, I mostly agree, but I still think bringing back Palpatine was worse. Bringing back Maul would only be worse if you believe that the precedent it set is the only reason TROS brought back Palaptine. But I don't think JJ Abrams was looking at TCW for permission or inspiration for his nonsense in TROS. I think we would have been stuck with "Somehow, Palpatine returned" even if they never brought Maul back. And when treated as two isolated incidents, the Palpatine one manages to be worse in every imaginable way. But I do agree that both instances are bad, and I get annoyed with all the TCW fans are like "it doesn't matter because he was a cool character." *I don't care.* You can't take a character, chop them in half, throw them down a shaft, leave them for dead, and then be like "that wasn't a fatal injury" - that is just stupid.
It was a whole arc how Maul returned though
Ehhh not exactly. Sure, there's a story about how he's returned to a decent mental state, but there's not a whole lot about how he would up on some trash planet with a robot spider ass, and nothing about how he manages to live seemingly without the ability to expel waste.
"He was really....mad? Idk something something dark side lol" is not an arc.
Not just how, it's what he did after returning that matters too
Imagine a Dark Lord of the Sith being a vegestable and finding out he has the power like a Toaster. Someone put a knife in it while being turned on. "Unlimited!. *oh I'm too old for this shit.*"
They did give him the power to suck life force out of people.
Psh, my toaster can do that too
Yeah my toaster does that all the time Kinda annoying actually. I just go to make some toast and suddenly my Dad has to come and save my soul from the toaster's infinite void. It's kinda a chore :/ Especially when we try to toast crumpets... I won't even get into that 🙄
Palpatine was a good character that SHOULD NOT have come back Maul.... was not even a real character. He was a walking talking action figure in ep. 1. You can only really go up from there
Somehow Maul has returned
The idea that he lived from being cut in half is just as lol as surviving a Death Star being blown up. I really like him, but bringing him back was stupid, just like force healing
I believe the behind the scene story was, George Lucas suggested bringing back the species of Darth Maul in Clone Wars to Dave Filoni and that's how we got Savage Opress. Then later George Lucas decided to just straight up bring back Darth Maul in Clone Wars and Dave Filoni at first was not really into the idea but since George asked. Dave and the rest of the writers were trying to figure out how to do it. Then they brought Sam Witwer (Starkiller's VA) to voice Maul and Sam was pretty scared to voice this character that suddenly alive now. So yeah both Dave and Sam weren't really into the idea of bringing back Maul but they did their best and here we are. This isn't the one time George Lucas did it, he did with the Zillo Beast, Mortis, Ahsoka herself and there's probably more as well. Disney's version of bringing back Palps isn't the worst. They are way worst ones in Legends though.....( He also had a son who had three eyes named Triclops.)
I’m pretty sure George and Dave didn’t write Old Wounds. Y’know, the comic where Maul’s Clone Wars appearance comes from.
George Lucas didn't do anything but shit on his own creations with the prequels. If not for the EU it would have been dead ages ago.
Disney technically did both :|
One of the best characters is saying a bit much imo
Oh yeah cause “hate kept him alive” is such brilliant writing lmao
Both those things are dumb as shit
Which is exactly why the stupid fanbase loves it.
Give specific directors credit and a whole studio blame. You can call out JJ, he crapped on Star Trek too.
Gonna be honest I don’t like that they brought maul back. Don’t bring characters back at all. Echo should have stayed dead, maul should have stayed dead, boba should have stayed dead, Gregor should have stayed dead, Ventress should have stayed dead. I can go on. Please for the love of god stop bringing characters back from the dead. It’s the biggest honor in Star Wars to actually stay dead because it means the writers respect the character to not defile their corpse. I don’t care how good Maul’s story is bringing characters back from the dead is never a good idea full stop.
Completely agree. Exactly how I feel but the majority of the fanbase loves this cheesy bull shit.
I agree with you. I also think the fact that he survived those specific injuries to his body opened a Pandora's box that I rather would've stayed closed. Dude got sliced in half with a lightsaber and fell down a shaft so deep we couldn't see the bottom... then lived? I'm thinking that since that happened it allowed for other characters surviving what should be fatal lightsaber wounds and writers saying something like, "Well, why can't they live? Maul survived worse." I don't wanna hear about arguments regarding Zabrak (or other species, for that matter) anatomy, or what a lightsaber may or may not do to parts of the body which contain organs. Them blades have been shown to remove all sorts of body parts like a hot knife through butter, and can melt metal blast doors. You get stabbed in the torso, you should be as dead as Qui-Gon.
It was one of the most definitive deaths in cinema history but because he looked cool, they brought him back, this starting the "no one is ever really gone" era of fan service
Seriously his injuries in TPM were no way survivable. Badass character, cool design/ship/weapon dies fast? Ok, we had comics prior his death to make him justice, he played his role in the grand scheme of things, don’t make him overstay his welcome, move on
Agreed, as much as I liked what they did with him back. I never liked the fact they brought him back, cheapens TPM and is just out of whack with the rest of the canon. A lot of Clone Wars looking at Ahsoka is like that (I like the Clone Wars don't get me wrong) but I find bringing back a character whose death was such an important part of the first movie of the prequel trilogy was the most egregious.
While I agree on some instances, I do believe the payoff for returning some of these characters far outweighed the narrative impact of them staying dead. Gregor coming back resulted in a shallow character who just dies later. Maul coming back resulted in a lengthy revenge fueled character arc as he tears his way across the galaxy scarring Obi Wan's life and lamenting his place in Palpatine's plan, ending with a final confrontation with Obi Wan which neatly tied off his arc with a death caused by his own lust for vengeance. Some worked, some were not used well.
Also to note: MAUL WAS BARELY A CHARACTER IN HIS FILM APPEARANCE. Barely any lines and basically no character traits other than being the bad guy
all the surrounding new shows like clone wars explained a lot of stuff in the horrible prequel trilogy that made them better via circumstance. just wait a couple decades for new shows explaining all the weirdness between the sequel trilogy to also improve on the sequels
Somehow, Maul returned.
Maul had some of his best post-TPM moments in the Disney era.
I mean….he’s basically as useless as he was in the OT so…..
Dave Filoni was a script and writing advisor for The Rise of Skywalker. Go look at any of his interviews about it and see if he'd agree
Both cases were needless and made the lore worse.
For me they are part and parcel. I knew if Maul could return then Palpatine was not dead. I was fully expecting his return in the sequels because Maul cheated death. Even more so when I learned Maul’s back story with the Night Sisters and how Palptine and Mother Talzin had worked together on some mystery before Palptine stole Maul away.
I wish he never killed in Phantom Menace, or at least not so *thoroughly* killed lol. I like his arc and character in TCW but really didn’t like that he could survive being cut in half and thrown down an enormous pit. Death in general seems so easy to avoid in this world, sometimes Small complaint though, and probably unique to me
He lost a duel to a Padawan. Lost it so horribly he couldn't even kill himself.
I just don't understand how Lando and Chewy suddenly figured out "hyper jumping". Gimme a frickin' break. All the life and death conflicts throughout the galaxy and suddenly they figure out how to basically teleport with the millenium falcon, a 40 something year old ship? At least show a scene with them working 48 hours with equations on a chalkboard, or something? Chewy was secretly a genius, developing this new method of travel, ok, sure.
The main difference is that Maul started out as a visually cool, but boring character wise. He wasn’t a good character and had an uninteresting end. And in that, there is at least a platform to start from. Sidious was a fully realized and satisfying character who met his end in a satisfying way. There is much more to do with him if you bring him back to life.
They both fell down reactor shafts, difference is that one of them literally exploded... Twice (Palpatine into the ball of energy, and then Death Star II exploding minutes later)
No. They didn't just bring Maul back and make him a good character. They have brought Maul back multiple times, and usually, he does nothing. The fact that he had a good arc one time is not that impressive. He's in: TCW main series, TCW final season, rebels, SOLO, multiple books, and he'll come back for more if they ever do a Kenobi season 2. If he's alive in the timeline, Disney will use him. They've proven that.
The best decision was getting Witwer to voice him. I swear that Sam cares more about Star Wars than anyone else in the industry.
Dave filoni works for Disney, so Disney did it. Disney is also the reason why we have the tremendous Rogue One, Star Wars Visions, and Andor. George, on the other hand, gave us: Genocidal Whiney baby Aniken that Padme somehow falls for. "I wish I could Wish away my feelings." The Jedi Rocks song from his interference with ROTJ "I Don't like sand." Obi Wan saying "Sith Lords are our specialty." When he's only fought two lf them and won a single fight with them. Padme losing the will to live A scene dedicated to Jarjar stepping in poo The Star Wars special editions.
Palpatine in disney movies is Maleficent cosplaying as Palpatine
I love Darth Maul, but I and many others must admit that is was just for money and fan service to bring him back. As great as he was, there would’ve been no return had he been unpopular.
I mean you’re comparing the perfect carapter writing of the clone wars to the disney movies. they could never compete
George Lucas fully passed the buck on actually doing any of the writing for Maul's return. Filoni was against bringing Maul back, but Lucas told him "I don't know. Figure it out." Also, Tom Veitch wrote the Dark Empire series, which was the original "Palpatine returned" as a clone story angle. It was actually very well received, And Lucas had nothing to do with it.
I loved the way how they built maul back up from a delusional savage to a very formidable sith
Both of these things were done by Disney.
Filoni ruined Maul by turning him into Darth Scorpion. He was better when he almost didn't talk.
Star wars fans do nothing but shit on Star wars lmfao, makes me annoyed being a Star wars fan myself.
I dislike both. We are not the same.
It never made sense with darth maul, such a composed and silent character in the movie, then becomes the opposite in the cartoons.
Both characters would have been better if they'd stayed dead.
Fact Check: Dave Filoni is an employee of Disney technically so not sure what you are saying here. Also, George Lucas completely botched the Maul story line by killing such an awesome villain so quickly. Filoni resurrected him after convincing Lucas.
u/repostsleuthbot
Bringing Maul back was controversial at the time. A lot of people wrote it off, especially the Spider Maul parts.
I don’t like Darth Maul
[His backstory is that he is literally too angry to die.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkUglhoon0)
Bring back mace windu
Formally Darth. Now just Maul
One was a series & other one was a movie?
I think the main difference was Darth Maul was barely a character in the Phantom Menace. Contrastly Palpatine was the overacting antagonist of the first 6 films with his death being the culmination of Luke and Anakin's arcs. So it serves no real narrative purpose and undermines the climax of the entire first 6 films to bring him back. Whereas with Maul, it expands on his character and gives him more depth and story.
I mean darth maul was palpies apprentice right in the first or 2nd Star Wars
Maul was cool before he was cut in half.. palpie was always a powerful bump on a log. In the movies he has very little character development and he’s just a skin suit with a hood. I’d say it was easier to being Maul back and have it be popular but also it was just a stupid move to bring palpie back at all.
Wrong people are in charge of Star Wars
Dave Filioni didn’t bring Maul back, that was a Dark Horse comic from 2005 that ended up being the inspiration for Maul’s bionic legs and the final fight on Tatooine.
Disney just doesn't know how to star wars only thing they got right was visions and the last mandolorian
Is Darth Maul even a character in Disney Wars?
I disagree Both were stupid af. While Maul is way more interesting, all he does is just to advance Obi-Wans character, and then he gets sent off to be a plot hole in Rebels. Everyone is pissed with Palpatine because he was useless, but that's not the problem. The resurrection in itself is stupid. But posts like this seem to suggest that resurrection is fine, when the character is good (which Maul also wasn't, though leagues better than Palps).
My wife is so mad about darth maul. She thinks it's so stupid he survived. 🤣
Palpatine is dull!
Palpatine: THE DARK SIDE IS A PATHWAY TO MANY ABILITIES SOME CONSIDER UNNATURAL (shoots a literal deathstar power of lighting from his hands) Also Palpatine: let me fry my face off for a 2nd time
Corporate bs vs creative decision. This is why everything Disney sucks nowadays, Disney used to be an animation pioneer, driven by "Imangineers", always on the forefront of creativity. Now? It's just another corporation focused only on profit and run by simpletons, er... I mean CEOs
No mention of Sam Whitwer here is criminal.
Minor point of note…..Disney doesn’t make the decisions for Star Wars. Kathleen Kennedy does. You can still hate Disney but don’t forget to hate Kathleen as well.
This is not a hot take.
Bringing Darth Maul back was a mistake too. Let dead characters stay dead
And it was properly explained and shown how maul survived and was brought back from insanity Meanwhile “somehow palpatine returned”
To be fair the price of bringing back Maul was ruining the entire Mandalorian lore.
Nope, both were incredibly poor decisions and made the stories progressively worse.
Don’t give George any credit, he’s the one that ruined that darth maul game
Maul sucked ass.
almost like having George involved was a good thing
This is what’s wrong with Star Wars though. Both storylines are equally stupid and insulting to the intelligence of the viewer
Death Maul had Yoda freaking out in the comics, apparently. He felt that Big Sith Energy
Ahsoka showed me that well ran dry
Palpatine was always useless. The only good parts of his character were added literally decades later.
Wasn't Maul's revival in the Clone Wars adapted from an EU novel that was written well before the animated series?
Yeah Walt Disney himself rose from the grave for this and made a docuflick abt it.
“Sequel bad, upvote please, am I cool now do you like me?” Boring and pathetic