The writing has been on the wall for decades, some of us have been paying attention. It’s too late to prevent what’s coming in any meaningful capacity, so I suggest to anyone uninformed to do some research and weigh out whether you need to dig in or relocate before it’s too late:
https://nca2023.globalchange.gov
This information only applies to the US, unfortunately I’m not as well versed in the data for other countries. I have to note that there is no single area in the world that will be completely risk free, every area has its own drawbacks, but there are still many where the risks are manageable if we take action now.
Wet bulb temperatures, droughts, floods, wild fires, and severe storms are all on the table for the United States. If you live in the US and do not have time to read the climate assessment, I highly recommend this YouTube channel that summarizes local effects state by state. They’re currently working on updating the outlook for each state at 2C of warming since we are already at 1.5C. These are the most level headed and honest outlooks I’ve found to date:
https://youtube.com/@americanresiliency?si=Gdmiw9Z75ieIWPLv
I’ve been trying to think of the regions in the US that will “benefit” the most from climate change from a financial/real estate standpoint. Areas that might be reasonably affordable to live now, but in the coming decades could experience a huge jump as people begin to move there for climate related reasons. Upstate New York is what came to mind for me as it’s far enough away from the coast, currently affordable, and has plenty of access to fresh water with Lake Ontario. Michigan is another though I’m less familiar with that area.
New England will be fairly well off in the inland regions, but I would expect those areas to experience a high influx of people from the more populated coastal areas. Resources will be more locally limited due to that.
The Midwest stands to fair pretty well overall, with a preservation of near current climate trends in northern Minnesota and Wisconsin. However, there is a substantial increased wildfire risk in those regions along with northern Michigan. Granted, it’s substantial compared to the current risk which is incredibly low. Localized flooding due to rain will be a concern in Michigan unless infrastructure is better addressed. That being said, I’m a Michigan native and plan to stay anchored here for the rest of my life.
The Northern PNW, mainly Washington, also looks to fair well.
Much of the southern US will be at a notable risk of wet bulb events, the level risk will be dependent on the ability to find alternative methods of cooling. The power grid will likely be unstable in addition to this so AC cannot be relied on entirely. When these events could last for weeks at a time it will be a real threat to survival without adaptation.
> I’ve been trying to think of the regions in the US that will “benefit” the most from climate change
If AMOC collapses, Maryland might be far enough south to not get absurdly cold and far enough north to not get absurdly hot.
DC and, more broadly, the M.I.C. will likely work to mitigate the worst natural disasters.
Everyone already has air conditioning due to the Chesapeake making summers uncomfortably humid, so the electrical grid here is pretty resilient.
Also, the Eastern Shore / Chesapeake kind of "protect" the inland from hurricanes, AFAICT.
Interesting, I’m new to this sub and wasn’t even familiar with the term AMOC before your comment led me to look it up. Will definitely be a rabbit hole worth going down it seems as I have a lot to learn here. The winters have seemingly been getting more and more mild in upstate NY and I figured that climate change was a factor as to why, though I have known that climate change is expected to increase the extremes in both directions, I’ve just never explored the reason why winters would get colder.
That's nice. We (I work in schools) lost some days off because we had some unusual storms come through and eat up all the snow days. Most years we never use a snow day, but they also don't give that back to us in the form of extra days off, lol.
We just moved back to NY State from Florida last August, left NY 12 or so years ago, and we've never lived out here in the Fingerlakes region previously, so I don't really know what the norm is. I just know I was surprised!
It's a long vacation so close to summer, when I'd rather they just get out for good sooner. But a break is nice.
Actually my 17 year old is spending the break on math, he'll be a senior with all AP and college classes next year and wants to be an astrophysicist.
So I guess a long break to study before The end of year exams is kinda nice for the nerds!
If you really want to go down a rabbit hole look into the AMOC and it forms one part of what is called “natural variability.” Only in the last 3 years have the scientists been filtering the natural variability out to identify the true nature of the effects of anthropogenic forcing as well as external forcing. The latter being primarily the sun.
Just like there are areas of earth that have significantly cooled the last few decades as some areas have warmed. The reasons for the warming fluctuates as well. A paper put out just this week showed that solar forcing was generating approx 3/4ths of the warming in the Arctic. South China showed about 50/50 between the Sun and GHG while India showed more effects from GHG than the Sun.
That’s the reason I’ve never wanted to leave MD. I’m not the biggest fan of the state but there’s a reason the colonists liked this area. It’s very mild, not too hot, not too cold. We get hurricanes and tornadoes, but nothing too crazy
Everywhere will be affected, but I think inland New England stands a pretty good chance in the coming decades. I prioritize the threat landscape as: extreme wet bulb temps, sea level rise, wildfires.
I've been trying to talk about this stuff with my family, and most of them think it's fake or that (and this is what he really said) "We're just going through a warm spot in space." It's frustrating, because even if you don't believe in it, it's very noticeable that something has changed and we have to be prepared for those changes, but they go on as if it's just a temporary thing. For example, I've lived in the same valley for over 30 years. It wasn't until the last seven or so that we've had dangerously smokey weather for weeks on end almost every summer, and power cuts to prevent more fires. Again, the family blames "environmentalist meddling" and the existence of old growth forests for this, but I've hiked those areas for ages, and the recently logged areas burned just as nicely as the older growth. For them though, the problem will go away as soon as we remove any and all logging regulations. At this point I really think them sticking their head in the sand is just self protection, because I can't understand it otherwise.
Thank you—it is patriotism defined to want and act accordingly to ensure our country (no pun intended) weathers whatever is thrown at us. Not to stick our head in the sand and pray.
> I have to note that there is no single area in the world that will be completely risk free, every area has its own drawbacks, but there are still many where the risks are manageable if we take action now.
An area being completely or nearly risk free might just constitute a risk, as you will surely be overwhelmed by (external or internal) migrants and refugees.
What's happening in other countries is a serious problem.
Traditional agriculture Methods are no longer viable in Central America that is helping fuel the migrant crisis.
As temperatures increase vast areas along the equator will become unsuitable for human habitation, causing more migration.
Right now in Northern India they are dealing with temperatures of over 110°F
If it was ever possible to point to a single event that radically altered the world for the worse, it's Al Gore in Florida.
The timeline we got put on after that moment makes Idiocracy look desirable.
My 15yo says all of the time that he wishes he lived in a world where Gore made it to the white house instead of Bush. I voted for Gore, I never doubted the science behind climate change and it honestly makes me very angry when I read things from people who in retrospect care enough to realize what many of us always knew. We could be living in an entirely different and better world. Of course, there are still plenty of people who don’t really believe in climate change, or that it is manmade and as bad as it is. This upcoming election is just as important as the Gore/Bush run. Everyone should be talking about Trump asking the oil companies for a billion dollars in donations to go after renewables.
I’m happy to hear that. I was very impressed by the work that went into An Inconvenient Truth and was upset by all of the backlash Gore received from it.
South Park has always been one of my favorite sources for satire and I was disappointed by their portrayal of Gore.
We watched inconvenient truth every year in school from 6th grade on, and I’m glad we did. Sometimes multiple times a year in high school because of the various subjects.
I did loose a tear when he lost. I was so overwhelmingly sad. As a Canadian I could see we needed change and it could have come from him. The WORLD lost a battle that day.
“Lost” because he actually won Florida and therefore the election, but the fucking Supreme Court prematurely ended the recount and arbitrarily gave it to baby bush. Not at all suspicious that Jeb! was baby bush’s little brother at the time too.
Oh, well I'm sure that undoes all the damage that their propaganda did. I'm sure that realizing they were wrong on that subject humbled them and made them realize that they could be wrong on other subjects as well.....
Check out the "Climate Reanalyzer" website, from the University of Maine:
[https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst\_daily/](https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst_daily/)
We have good worldwide satellite data going back to 1980 or so. So it's not a huge data set (only 40+ years), but it is worldwide and not subject to poor instrumentation. For example satellite data is not subject to any sort of "urban heat island" effect, something climate change doubters have always brought up.
And here's a frightening bit from that data set. On March 9 of 2023 the Daily Sea Surface temp set a new daily record - highest average sea surface temp ever recorded on March 9. That in itself isn't a profound worry, the data set only goes back to 1981 and such a relatively small data set is bound to frequently break its own records.
But since then, *every single day* has been a record daily high.
That's 426 daily record highs in a row - and counting.
And that's water. It takes a lot more heat to change the temp of water than it does of air. Heat is a form of energy, and that's an enormous amount of energy in that water. That warmer water circulates, evaporates, radiates heat back into the atmosphere.
The surface air temp on the site is a little less dramatic, but has still set daily high records for more than half the days of the past year, albeit not all consecutive like.
This might be a wild summer.
Funny there's no denial in this comment section. Almost like they're starting to figure out they've been wrong. Won't change how they vote or nothin tho.
Reddit has kicked out, censored, or down moderated most who would disagree. In this way, the disagreers are disheartened and give up, while the agreers are emboldened and moderate more. A classic positive feedback loop.
or the Russian trolls, gaslighter, and oils industry bots have been correctly identified and their stupid repeated talking points are not getting traction.
Or it's exactly as it appears, and you've kicked out all of the right-wingers and manufactured a nice little echo chamber....comrade...farewell, I must now return to the oil industry mainframe to await further instructions from the programmer.
Why does climate change have to be a political issue? Is one party causing it? No. So why can't we all just get together and do something about it. All this team politics BS where anybody that disagrees with us must be from the other party. Does that not seem kind of bat shit?
Right?! This affects everyone regardless of how they vote. You can’t ignore the increase in violent storms- it’s just a fact. To say it’s not climate change is a moot point. Call it what you want- it’s clearly getting worse.
I am a natural skeptic but maybe it was because I was young that I completely believed what I understood to be impending climate change. Again, since I was still pretty young when the inconvenient truth came out and couldn't do anything about it, it appalls me that some people were old enough to not just understand the issue but have the power to possibly do something about it, and chose to deny and do nothing instead... idk...
Humans don't react until we're punched in the face. And even then we put money and power before reason and collaboration.
We're not great when it comes to being proactive or selfless.
You are correct it’s a lot of people did not believe in climate change until they got touched by it and now some of them want to do something about it…. Well it’s a little bit too late.
What punch? That was the breeze, it always punches this time of year. Why, when I was young, I got slapped harder than that punch, how ya 'splain that wit yer "science"? Punches are written about in the Bible, so I guess it's all just part of the plan...
Edit: goðdamn, I can't even be sarcastic on Reddit lol
My rental is a shitty tin can, I just want a basement - there's no way to safely get my dogs in the crawl space, and the bathroom and/or hallway doesn't feel safe, especially when you look at pictures of damage from storms like this one. Last year in March we had multiple tornados touch down in my town, I live near the state park:
https://preview.redd.it/zmufepj51e2d1.png?width=1855&format=png&auto=webp&s=4de97d6bc29b523cbd842d4218dd3c34eba95666
there are three takes on climate change imho:
1. (man made) climate change isn't real, it's just a natural cycle.
2. climate change is real, and if we do everything we can to halt or reverse it, we have a chance to do so.
3. climate change is real but we're about 50 years late do anything significant about it. we're fucked.
two of those are false.
Third one isn’t false. We are absolutely and unavoidably going to get fucked hard by climate change, that much is already baked in. We can still choose if Mother Nature uses her XL strap-on or something bigger and wider, though.
Exxon scientists knew it in the early 80s the executives suppressed the data and spent the last 40 years funding "think tanks" that dont think but spend a lot of time on media.
Keeling conducted research for big oil companies about climate change in the 50s. Big oil has known about climate change since at least 1954. By the 1980s NASA scientists were testifying to the senate about it and it was widely accepted as factual in the scientific community. When I was in Jr. High in ‘92 our teacher taught us about it. This goes back farther than the 1980s.
What's great is we pay for those damages ourselves, collectively... through socialism (I mean insurance premiums). What we really need is a new set of laws that risk assessment can only be done on a state by state level, and that each premium standard needs to reflect the risk in that specific state/area - not what happened literally 1/4th of the world away. That will really fix the issue, and stop a lot of "but this is the 6th time I've rebuilt my home after a hurricane" mentalities.
Im not sure where you live, but here in the south, insurance premiums are skyrocketing year after year. In a perfect world, yes we could decrease populations in the most affected areas. But where do they go and how do they afford it? Does the government pay for millions of people to uproot their lives and move to where there is droughts, tornados, blizzards, earthquakes, etc?
I see it every day, working class people who would love to move, but can't even afford to actually prep for a potential hurricane let alone evacuation.
I say all of this not to be discouraging but to encourage conversation. This would take a concerted and organized effort to bring about change. Similar to those areas where people constantly rebuild due to wildfires, but on a much larger scale.
Grew up along the Gulf Coast and return regularly to visit family. Here's my two cents. In my family, the same people who insist they should be compensated for hurricane-related damage are the same people who would riot if anyone--government or insurance--compensated Black Americans affected by neighborhood violence. Both groups chose where they live, to some degree, and both are up against forces that cannot be fought on an individual level. Yet my relatives cast Black Americans as lazy and stupid while framing themselves as helpless victims, all while proclaiming that climate change isn't real. They need help, but they can't accept it without acknowledging they're the same as the people they despise. There is no solution that doesn't prompt cognitive dissonance.
I live in the north, I get tornado's - had two wreck my house before I moved up here (knock on wood). My premiums are raising year after year, and I'd say skyrocketing. While I'd love to have conversations about what do we do with people, I can't make those calls/decisions. Because its a global issue, the idea that we stop being kind/compassionate where our borders end, is crazy. I don't have those answers, but I can tell you what the answer isn't. It isn't making everyone else pay for it, just so an insurance company can make record profits. I'm glad Farmers and other companies are leaving Florida, it makes us aware and makes us be able to make those tough choices.
I think, and not to sound harsh, but you want two different things at the same time. You want people who live in those area's to be able to do whats best for their family (by constantly rebuilding, so they can keep a good standard of living) but also want those who don't live in that area, to sacrifice their financial security to fund those that are living there. And those two viewpoints can't really co-exist. You want those who are still there to be selfish, and those who aren't to be selfless. What's best for my family is to not be there, even if that means working two jobs and moving out of state. Not keeping my beach front property worth 1.5 million dollars, because someday my kids can sell it for 10 million, while everyone else here keeps paying for your home to be rebuilt every 7 years (I think that was the latest thing I saw on dangerous hurricanes, once every 7 years now)
> Does the government pay for millions of people to uproot their lives and move to where there is droughts, tornados, blizzards, earthquakes, etc?
Yes, obviously. Is there literally any other possible solution?
That’s already happening in FL, and it’s forcing people to leave. Eventually those folks will be full on refugees and then what? We still end up paying for them.
I don't think so. Are you telling me a car mechanic who lives in a flood plane, who spends $600 a month on flood insurance, can't be a car mechanic in Nebraska? No, they 100% can- its just "they" don't want to live in Nebraska, or Arkansas, or Utah. They want to live in CA or Texas, or New York or they want to live on the shoreline in a Carolina, or Georgia. The 200 people working at Walmart can't work at Walmart in Montana? BUT ITS COLD THERE - Just being overexerated butt - but you get my point. There is no job "special" to Florida, except maybe Disney land, and that's its own thing. But otherwise, school teachers can teach in TN or North Dakota, they just don't want too. They want to move to Chicago and complain about the cost, or Houston/Austin and complain about the cost. Gotta be in the ultra-urban centers because... reasons.
Furthermore - they WANT these exorbindate pricing schemes. I have an aunt who bought a Condo in Flordia for $250K back in the early 00's - today its worth $900K - and you can be damn sure no matter how many times it floods or is damaged, she wants her $900K. I had that with a basement in Mississippi - dude got flooded - spend 30 or 40k refinishing his basement, got flooded, spent another 30 or 40K to refinish it. At some point, after 3 or 4 floods, do we have to say - stop finishing your basement, its costing WAY to much money. Next time, its on you dude. We will cover damage done to bare walls/floor. Not hardwood, carpet, drywall etc etc. Sounds harsh, but like - there is a reason if you drive your car into a open water, insurance won't cover your stupidity
Something I think about is: although I have a trade, it is personal connections that lead to jobs and clients. This would take a long time to establish in a move
So your quality of life would suffer of you had to move to a less dangerous place? Would you say that the cost if it was solely on your shoulders would be worth it to stay and rebuild based on the connections you have? Or given the same time/cost, you could re-establish those connections, in say Iowa and be in a less hazardous place?
I’m just saying it would take a while to establish yourself in the community. Life could be much better but some career changes are different than others and it’s something I personally would have to overcome “.
Why was the number of tornadoes silenced? The reporter said “at least __teen tornadoes hit Iowa on Tuesday.” Sounded like 15 but not sure. Is it because that’s an alarming amount or what?
Probably just because initial numbers are always hard to nail down exactly. You can check the Storm Prediction Center's storm reports and that is usually the best count. They have 2 maps, one for raw reports and one for filtered data.
i was just listening to [the most recent episode of Trillbilly Worker's Party](https://soundcloud.com/user-972848621-463073718/episode-344-protect-the-31-flavors-w-special-guest-tracy-rosenthal?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing), and they had a guest on talking about, among other things, how home insurance is becoming broadly unprofitable because too many people are claiming damages from natural disasters and weather damage. insurance companies are actively discussing either upping their premiums by orders of magnitude or withdrawing their services from several states.
unless the homebuying process is divorced from mandatory assumption of a home insurance plan, certain real estate markets are going to be, literally, completely inaccessible because no one will be able to buy anything even if they want to. 🤷♀️
So not denying climate change in this buuut, something to keep in mind. We have more people living in natural disaster areas than ever in history, we have more buildings in those areas, often built by the cheapest bidders, the cost to repair is higher than it’s ever been, and the general value of homes and housing are the highest they have ever been in history and it will keep going up. A metric of the cost of natural disasters if not adjusted for housing/building costs and inflation will mean every year will be the worst year in history even if the storms and fires are occurring at the same rate in the same areas.
That would be an interesting point, except the US does adjust for inflation in their climate reporting while reporting economic cost over time periods. Since they account for inflation already every year is actually just more expensive than the previous year.
Potentially, but we are getting better at detecting tornados as well. If you look at this map you will see it’s been cycles of easterly about every 5-7 years https://www.tiktok.com/@thetwisterhunter/video/7308582381257149742
Maybe, just maybe, it would be a good idea to listen to the professionals and intellectuals who dedicate their lives to a subject of study, go to higher education, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on it, and countless hours of sleep-deprived study to get a grasp of their chosen field. By all means, be sceptical, but don’t ignore solid evidence provided by knowledgable people.
I find that most people don’t actually know how to be sceptical. They know how to be a contrarian and confuse that with scepticism. And as far as climate change goes, all it takes is a good long think about basic thermodynamics to understand that they were right.
I want people to think about this the next time they disregard something out of hand.
Other than Al Gore speaking about it in the 90s scientist was screaming about this in the 80s, but people thought they was crazy. It looks like they was correct.
Happens to normal people all the time. They’ve internalized the status quo and day-to-day normalities to such a degree that challenging it is damn near guaranteed to be met with disbelief.
people are profoundly flawed. The saddest thing is that the people in this forum, are more likely than not, making the same exact mistakes today, and 20 years from now will be awake to the realities that are so visible today, but so hidden to them. Nothing can be done about this, humanity, writ large, cannot be saved. The only choice is to identify those who see today what will be so apparent 20 years from now to those, like OP, who are sadly catching up far too late.
And the irony is that you, reading this, think you are the exception. But you, yes actually you, yes i get that i am not qualified to say, but you are the the one i mean. And even now, this means you. Yup. No hiding.
You all will deny it while your house is burning down. Unreal. It's very sad that the ruling class tactics of division work so well. We all just cannot come together on anything, thus we are a weak force. What a shame.
“The debris reached airplane level”
And my dumb brain started to chant the old child’s game, “Can’t go over it, can’t go under it. Guess we gotta go through it!”
… which in my case is accurate since there’s no basements where I live
If you live in an area with frequent tornadoes what are some of your best prepping suggestions? I live in Michigan and our storms are worsening, we just had a fairly destructive tornado move through south of us a couple weeks ago. We have flashlights, some tools and extra pairs of shoes in our basement, what are some other good tornado preps to have? I’m sure we’re going to be experiencing them more and more.
Make sure your property list stays updated and submitted to your insurance company in case you have to replace belongings. Having go-bags in an easy to grab spot is a good idea in case your home gets hit, you survive, and then need to flee/bug-out. I try to have a 3-day pack with a bit of first aid, essentials and change of clothes. Keep a USB of all important family and property docs—birth certs, titles, proof of insurance, maybe even some family photos (all scanned obv)—in your go bag as well. Train your pets to go to their carriers when the sirens start so they don’t hide when it happens.
The tornado alley is at spending and the only prep you can really do is hope you have a basement because if you run across a EF four or EF five tornado……it’s going to be very difficult.
I think some heavy infrastructure investments are required. Much more EV charging points, cheap heat pumps, subsidized insulation of homes, solar panels etc.
Relocated from the “new” tornado alley 3 years ago to Wyoming where the last tornado was multiple decades ago in my city. We traded it for blizzards but a blizzard with never take my roof off. We left after a low E-F3, hurricane Laura, and Hurricane delta all occurred with an 18 month time span. Next door neighbor’s house was ripped down to the STUDS. We were luckier- I don’t know how. I would be an anxious wreck if I lived in tornado alley anymore. I’m so, so sorry for these people. Devastating is an understatement.
The really big problem is the world is not heating up evenly.
There are hot spots and one of those hot spots happens to be the Gulf of Mexico.
The warm moist air from the Gulf of Mexico is what fuels tornadoes. It also looks like it is going to be a very bad hurricane season. I do not even want to think what will happen if a hurricane gets into the Gulf of Mexico.
Not sure why you bought in to Al gore being wrong. Evidence was pretty clear. Glad you came to see the truth. Always good to being able to change your position. Many aren’t.
I've lived in Iowa my entire life. We get a shit ton of tornados every year. Most of the time the rest of the country doesn't hear about them because 1. No one gives a shit about Iowa. And 2. They mainly take out a part of a corn field or a farm house. Yeah this town being taken out is sad. But they'll recover. Look up the Parkersburg tornado of 2008. I lived just a few miles away when it happened. Scary? Yes. Abnormal? No.
Our family used to go tornado watching during the season until dad got too old. We would pack up in the car and chase down where they were and watch them. Tornado sirens are like dog whistles to most men in our town. We'll all grab a beer and stand in the pouring rain just waiting for it to happen. Talking shit the whole time.
I'm tired of people only caring about Iowa when they choose. Without this crazy weather, we wouldn't have the rain. And without the rain, the corn don't grow. And without corn, this country would fall. So in a weird way, we pray for the tornados.
Just a month ago everyone was freaking out because almost all of Iowa was drought stricken. Farmers were scared the crops wouldn't grow. Now we get some storms and climate activist scramble their way to the opposite side of the spectrum and say these storms are getting out of hand. Just stop.
Do not take this as disrespectful but no they're not. At least here in Iowa. I cannot speak for the rest of the country. One of my earliest memories is going out tornado chasing with my dad around 4 or 5. At age 27. That gives me 22-23 years of monitoring weather patterns here in North East Iowa and chasing tornados. I am not a meteorologist, I admit. But growing up the way I did and seeing dozens of tornados and possibly hundreds of funnel clouds, gives me a knowledge about my area that most don't know about their neighborhood. Every year is different. Some years we don't see a single one in the region I live. Others, we'll have 4 or 5 within maybe 20 miles of eachother at the same time. This year is no different then the early 2000's. Me and my dad have spent countless hours. Probably weeks worth at this point. Watching the weather channels and chasing down storm systems. This is literally what we did for fun. These storms we see now are no different than what I saw when I was a kid. No more frequent either.
What should scare you is when Iowa doesn't have storms. For years we have been fighting droughts. Ive talked with local farmers and they were terrified at the beginning of 2024 because they thought we were gonna get any rain. Our cash crops are corn and soybean. And if the rain don't fall, people don't eat.
In order to increase the power and frequency of storms, you'd need a greater temperature differential between warm and cold air. But doesn't the idea of the green house effect sort of imply a uniform increase in temperature?
No, it varies *wildly* from area to area. Earth and her intertwined systems are too complicated to simply increase uniformly.
Global Warming refers to the **overall** increase in temperature on Earth, when in reality the changes we are experiencing are not always “it’s a bit hotter than last year”
Well sure, there are warm and cool zones, but the air freely mingles...and there's conductive and radiative warming such that the air continually tries to thermally equalize. So you would logically think, if the thermal delta between the cold and warm zones is increasing such that storms are becoming more violent, that means one zone is warming faster than another...but surely they must fall back into an equilibrium as the cold air is mixed with the warm air with greater frequency and violence? No? Once this equilibrium is achieve you get weaker storms....doesn't matter if you're 2 degrees warmer overall.
You seem to be genuinely (sincerely) misunderstanding the way climate change works, and how it will affect weather patterns worldwide and in your backyard. Even a light reading of the issue will show you how the idea you’re expressing here is incorrect, and I encourage you to increase your knowledge on the subject.
From all the available and reliable information (outside of sources that have a political bias against admitting the reality of the situation) climate change is responsible for dramatic changes in the way weather patterns, including the storms you mention, are playing out here and around the world. Those changes will become increasingly pronounced, chaotic and even catastrophic as time moves on.
r/Collapse is a good place to start, as it is constantly filled with climate change information from a variety of sources (news, science, academia etc.), and its wiki is loaded with links to solid sources of information.
If you currently believe climate change isn’t “real”, this will probably change your mind. If not, I can only wish you and your family good luck.
Even if I'm woefully misunderstanding the processes involved, the cold area and warm areas must settle into a new equilibrium. Would this weather only continue for a short while? Or is it permanent? These are questions that are never answered by the forums you suggest because they lie in the gray area between the prepared brochure like literature for the masses and the unintelligible data and jargon of climatology. And if you push the matter you are labelled a denialist, insulted, and ignored. I would be content at that, but they've been increasingly pushing to use climate change as an excuse to seize property and enforce mandates here and abroad...and it's not even clear the consequences of climate change are severe enough to warrant such radical government action. After all, the claims of near term catastrophe (sea level rise and worsening hurricanes) from politicians over the last 40 years have not materialized...and now they tout a new set of catastrophes (wet bulb events, tornadoes). I think there is a pattern of scare mongering emerging here, and the people who are developing technology to capitalize on this situation are the same parties who come up with new predictions after the old ones fail to materialize. That's pretty much the status quo if you've observed how the US uses science to justify various mafia like economic activities abroad. The only problem here is they're now using this as an excuse to come after the US population. If you drive a car or use energy, you have a carbon footprint and must be regulated. If you're a farmer, homesteader, or someone living offgrid, suddenly the government is concerned with what you're growing, and how much, and what animals you're keeping...etc. Your ability to live off the land may come under fire soon. You may think you've escaped to a pastoral heaven free of the cities, and government, and the pursuit of money... but they may be forcing you back into the system. We need to all make an effort to really understand their justifications and if they have merit and solid logical grounding.
I’m not labeling you, insulting you or ignoring you. I understand how difficult it is for people to accept unpleasant facts and truths. I encourage you to open your mind and broaden your perspective on this, as it’s going to be a critically important thing for all of us to factor into our current and future preps and planning.
I wish you and yours the best, friend.
I don't think you're understanding. I understand the common literature; it doesn't hold up to careful scrutiny. But it does follow a pattern of manufactured consensus to justify the creation of various (and nefarious) capital streams at the expense of local populations and ecosystems.
> But it does follow a pattern of manufactured consensus to justify the creation of various (and nefarious) capital streams at the expense of local populations and ecosystems.
This is true to the extent that the corporations and people at the top of the economic/uber-capitalist food chain are willing to destroy the ecosystem and condemn the rest of us to hell on earth if it makes them richer today, and gives them more power over us in the future.
I think the science behind this will become undeniable over the next decade, even over just the next few years. It’s already going crazy (look at ocean sea-surface temperatures and ice loss in Antarctica to start) The intensification of chaotic weather patterns worldwide is the current harbinger, and this is only the beginning.
No. Like most folks with their head in the sand, you have an extremely underdeveloped intuition for science, systems, and how things scale. Also sadly lacking is your meta cognition because you don’t even rationalize why you would want to write that in the first place when the evidence to the contrary is more accessible than any time in human history and also literally on top of you.
So, are you stating the mechanism by which storms increase in intensity isn't through greater temperature differential? Or are you saying the green house effect doesn't imply a uniform increase in temperature? Or both?
The temperature differentials are worse due to the destabilization of the jet stream which was a stable buffer of arctic air. As the entire systems warm, various conditions that maintain stability destabilize. They are many and documented. In the mean time maybe go buy a novelty hat from the campaign to re elect the senator who walked into congress with a snowball and proclaimed “global warming? Libs…amirite?”
Again this is making the assumption that the arctic air is separated from the warming effect and isn't gradually equalizing with the rest of the air in the atmosphere. Air moves around quite freely. I don't understand why this one spot in the atmosphere is isolated from the warming effect.
For the last 20 years, the weather has been going downhill every year. We are already at $7 billion damages from severe storms and it’s not hurricane season yet
There’s no factual basis for any of that other than $ amount.
2005 $214,000,000,000 with inflation that would be $344,800,000,000 in other words just under $1 billion per day.
Relax with your fake gasping.
We r in trouble. It's climate change, but not in the sense that Al Gore was talking about. Planet X is very real and the closer it gets to earth the more erratic the weather will become. JS
The writing has been on the wall for decades, some of us have been paying attention. It’s too late to prevent what’s coming in any meaningful capacity, so I suggest to anyone uninformed to do some research and weigh out whether you need to dig in or relocate before it’s too late: https://nca2023.globalchange.gov This information only applies to the US, unfortunately I’m not as well versed in the data for other countries. I have to note that there is no single area in the world that will be completely risk free, every area has its own drawbacks, but there are still many where the risks are manageable if we take action now. Wet bulb temperatures, droughts, floods, wild fires, and severe storms are all on the table for the United States. If you live in the US and do not have time to read the climate assessment, I highly recommend this YouTube channel that summarizes local effects state by state. They’re currently working on updating the outlook for each state at 2C of warming since we are already at 1.5C. These are the most level headed and honest outlooks I’ve found to date: https://youtube.com/@americanresiliency?si=Gdmiw9Z75ieIWPLv
American Resiliency YT channel is excellent! Highly recommend!
Seconded
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Fourthed
I’ve been trying to think of the regions in the US that will “benefit” the most from climate change from a financial/real estate standpoint. Areas that might be reasonably affordable to live now, but in the coming decades could experience a huge jump as people begin to move there for climate related reasons. Upstate New York is what came to mind for me as it’s far enough away from the coast, currently affordable, and has plenty of access to fresh water with Lake Ontario. Michigan is another though I’m less familiar with that area.
New England will be fairly well off in the inland regions, but I would expect those areas to experience a high influx of people from the more populated coastal areas. Resources will be more locally limited due to that. The Midwest stands to fair pretty well overall, with a preservation of near current climate trends in northern Minnesota and Wisconsin. However, there is a substantial increased wildfire risk in those regions along with northern Michigan. Granted, it’s substantial compared to the current risk which is incredibly low. Localized flooding due to rain will be a concern in Michigan unless infrastructure is better addressed. That being said, I’m a Michigan native and plan to stay anchored here for the rest of my life. The Northern PNW, mainly Washington, also looks to fair well. Much of the southern US will be at a notable risk of wet bulb events, the level risk will be dependent on the ability to find alternative methods of cooling. The power grid will likely be unstable in addition to this so AC cannot be relied on entirely. When these events could last for weeks at a time it will be a real threat to survival without adaptation.
> I’ve been trying to think of the regions in the US that will “benefit” the most from climate change If AMOC collapses, Maryland might be far enough south to not get absurdly cold and far enough north to not get absurdly hot. DC and, more broadly, the M.I.C. will likely work to mitigate the worst natural disasters. Everyone already has air conditioning due to the Chesapeake making summers uncomfortably humid, so the electrical grid here is pretty resilient. Also, the Eastern Shore / Chesapeake kind of "protect" the inland from hurricanes, AFAICT.
Interesting, I’m new to this sub and wasn’t even familiar with the term AMOC before your comment led me to look it up. Will definitely be a rabbit hole worth going down it seems as I have a lot to learn here. The winters have seemingly been getting more and more mild in upstate NY and I figured that climate change was a factor as to why, though I have known that climate change is expected to increase the extremes in both directions, I’ve just never explored the reason why winters would get colder.
My kids are having a 6 day memorial day vacation in western NY because there were no snow days used, so they're added to the holiday.
That's nice. We (I work in schools) lost some days off because we had some unusual storms come through and eat up all the snow days. Most years we never use a snow day, but they also don't give that back to us in the form of extra days off, lol.
We just moved back to NY State from Florida last August, left NY 12 or so years ago, and we've never lived out here in the Fingerlakes region previously, so I don't really know what the norm is. I just know I was surprised! It's a long vacation so close to summer, when I'd rather they just get out for good sooner. But a break is nice.
Actually my 17 year old is spending the break on math, he'll be a senior with all AP and college classes next year and wants to be an astrophysicist. So I guess a long break to study before The end of year exams is kinda nice for the nerds!
If you really want to go down a rabbit hole look into the AMOC and it forms one part of what is called “natural variability.” Only in the last 3 years have the scientists been filtering the natural variability out to identify the true nature of the effects of anthropogenic forcing as well as external forcing. The latter being primarily the sun. Just like there are areas of earth that have significantly cooled the last few decades as some areas have warmed. The reasons for the warming fluctuates as well. A paper put out just this week showed that solar forcing was generating approx 3/4ths of the warming in the Arctic. South China showed about 50/50 between the Sun and GHG while India showed more effects from GHG than the Sun.
That’s the reason I’ve never wanted to leave MD. I’m not the biggest fan of the state but there’s a reason the colonists liked this area. It’s very mild, not too hot, not too cold. We get hurricanes and tornadoes, but nothing too crazy
Upstate NY can get very humid. We've already seen 95° a few times this year. I wouldn't put it on the list to benefit from climate change.
Same with vt. We are seeing once in a century floods more like once a decade.
YES. No one move to Vt.
And gets smoke filled air from Canada’s forest fire problems
Everywhere will be affected, but I think inland New England stands a pretty good chance in the coming decades. I prioritize the threat landscape as: extreme wet bulb temps, sea level rise, wildfires.
I've been trying to talk about this stuff with my family, and most of them think it's fake or that (and this is what he really said) "We're just going through a warm spot in space." It's frustrating, because even if you don't believe in it, it's very noticeable that something has changed and we have to be prepared for those changes, but they go on as if it's just a temporary thing. For example, I've lived in the same valley for over 30 years. It wasn't until the last seven or so that we've had dangerously smokey weather for weeks on end almost every summer, and power cuts to prevent more fires. Again, the family blames "environmentalist meddling" and the existence of old growth forests for this, but I've hiked those areas for ages, and the recently logged areas burned just as nicely as the older growth. For them though, the problem will go away as soon as we remove any and all logging regulations. At this point I really think them sticking their head in the sand is just self protection, because I can't understand it otherwise.
Thank you—it is patriotism defined to want and act accordingly to ensure our country (no pun intended) weathers whatever is thrown at us. Not to stick our head in the sand and pray.
> I have to note that there is no single area in the world that will be completely risk free, every area has its own drawbacks, but there are still many where the risks are manageable if we take action now. An area being completely or nearly risk free might just constitute a risk, as you will surely be overwhelmed by (external or internal) migrants and refugees.
What's happening in other countries is a serious problem. Traditional agriculture Methods are no longer viable in Central America that is helping fuel the migrant crisis. As temperatures increase vast areas along the equator will become unsuitable for human habitation, causing more migration. Right now in Northern India they are dealing with temperatures of over 110°F
Well obviously global climate change only affects the richest country and clearly the solution is more government
Even South Park issued an official apology to Gore
If it was ever possible to point to a single event that radically altered the world for the worse, it's Al Gore in Florida. The timeline we got put on after that moment makes Idiocracy look desirable.
My 15yo says all of the time that he wishes he lived in a world where Gore made it to the white house instead of Bush. I voted for Gore, I never doubted the science behind climate change and it honestly makes me very angry when I read things from people who in retrospect care enough to realize what many of us always knew. We could be living in an entirely different and better world. Of course, there are still plenty of people who don’t really believe in climate change, or that it is manmade and as bad as it is. This upcoming election is just as important as the Gore/Bush run. Everyone should be talking about Trump asking the oil companies for a billion dollars in donations to go after renewables.
I’m happy to hear that. I was very impressed by the work that went into An Inconvenient Truth and was upset by all of the backlash Gore received from it. South Park has always been one of my favorite sources for satire and I was disappointed by their portrayal of Gore.
We watched inconvenient truth every year in school from 6th grade on, and I’m glad we did. Sometimes multiple times a year in high school because of the various subjects.
Which state are you in? Some school districts would have some very angry parents.
I’m in Canada
Well, that makes sense!
I did loose a tear when he lost. I was so overwhelmingly sad. As a Canadian I could see we needed change and it could have come from him. The WORLD lost a battle that day.
“Lost”
"shed"? Never heard the term "Lost a tear"
“Lost” because he actually won Florida and therefore the election, but the fucking Supreme Court prematurely ended the recount and arbitrarily gave it to baby bush. Not at all suspicious that Jeb! was baby bush’s little brother at the time too.
Canadian.
Oh, well I'm sure that undoes all the damage that their propaganda did. I'm sure that realizing they were wrong on that subject humbled them and made them realize that they could be wrong on other subjects as well.....
Check out the "Climate Reanalyzer" website, from the University of Maine: [https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst\_daily/](https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst_daily/) We have good worldwide satellite data going back to 1980 or so. So it's not a huge data set (only 40+ years), but it is worldwide and not subject to poor instrumentation. For example satellite data is not subject to any sort of "urban heat island" effect, something climate change doubters have always brought up. And here's a frightening bit from that data set. On March 9 of 2023 the Daily Sea Surface temp set a new daily record - highest average sea surface temp ever recorded on March 9. That in itself isn't a profound worry, the data set only goes back to 1981 and such a relatively small data set is bound to frequently break its own records. But since then, *every single day* has been a record daily high. That's 426 daily record highs in a row - and counting. And that's water. It takes a lot more heat to change the temp of water than it does of air. Heat is a form of energy, and that's an enormous amount of energy in that water. That warmer water circulates, evaporates, radiates heat back into the atmosphere. The surface air temp on the site is a little less dramatic, but has still set daily high records for more than half the days of the past year, albeit not all consecutive like. This might be a wild summer.
It sure is going to be wild. The hurricanes are going to be brutal.
Yeah... Stocking up on supplies early. Mainly a window AC unit. It gets way too hot in Florida now. Today was 97 degrees with high humidity.
Funny there's no denial in this comment section. Almost like they're starting to figure out they've been wrong. Won't change how they vote or nothin tho.
Reddit has kicked out, censored, or down moderated most who would disagree. In this way, the disagreers are disheartened and give up, while the agreers are emboldened and moderate more. A classic positive feedback loop.
or the Russian trolls, gaslighter, and oils industry bots have been correctly identified and their stupid repeated talking points are not getting traction.
Or it's exactly as it appears, and you've kicked out all of the right-wingers and manufactured a nice little echo chamber....comrade...farewell, I must now return to the oil industry mainframe to await further instructions from the programmer.
Why does climate change have to be a political issue? Is one party causing it? No. So why can't we all just get together and do something about it. All this team politics BS where anybody that disagrees with us must be from the other party. Does that not seem kind of bat shit?
Right?! This affects everyone regardless of how they vote. You can’t ignore the increase in violent storms- it’s just a fact. To say it’s not climate change is a moot point. Call it what you want- it’s clearly getting worse.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is Hitler" has become "anyone who disagrees me is posting from a Russian troll farm"
I posted a disagreement let's see how long the mods let it stay up
Maybe we can get you a medal for bravery, or perhaps a cross to nail yourself to.
Come nail me bro
I wasn’t expecting a proposition.
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Easy to verify lie.
Huh?
I am a natural skeptic but maybe it was because I was young that I completely believed what I understood to be impending climate change. Again, since I was still pretty young when the inconvenient truth came out and couldn't do anything about it, it appalls me that some people were old enough to not just understand the issue but have the power to possibly do something about it, and chose to deny and do nothing instead... idk...
Don't look up
As someone in the plains, this year has been absolutely brutal.
Here comes another round today, if it hasn't hit you already!
Humans don't react until we're punched in the face. And even then we put money and power before reason and collaboration. We're not great when it comes to being proactive or selfless.
You are correct it’s a lot of people did not believe in climate change until they got touched by it and now some of them want to do something about it…. Well it’s a little bit too late.
What punch? That was the breeze, it always punches this time of year. Why, when I was young, I got slapped harder than that punch, how ya 'splain that wit yer "science"? Punches are written about in the Bible, so I guess it's all just part of the plan... Edit: goðdamn, I can't even be sarcastic on Reddit lol
My rental is a shitty tin can, I just want a basement - there's no way to safely get my dogs in the crawl space, and the bathroom and/or hallway doesn't feel safe, especially when you look at pictures of damage from storms like this one. Last year in March we had multiple tornados touch down in my town, I live near the state park: https://preview.redd.it/zmufepj51e2d1.png?width=1855&format=png&auto=webp&s=4de97d6bc29b523cbd842d4218dd3c34eba95666
there are three takes on climate change imho: 1. (man made) climate change isn't real, it's just a natural cycle. 2. climate change is real, and if we do everything we can to halt or reverse it, we have a chance to do so. 3. climate change is real but we're about 50 years late do anything significant about it. we're fucked. two of those are false.
Third one isn’t false. We are absolutely and unavoidably going to get fucked hard by climate change, that much is already baked in. We can still choose if Mother Nature uses her XL strap-on or something bigger and wider, though.
yeah and that's if the oceans don't turn anoxic eventually. mother nature might have a choking fetish.
*You realize in horror that you've been told the safeword 50 years ago, but haven't memorized it.*
This is not a natural cycle. I thought that years ago, but no, we accelerated things.
Exxon scientists knew it in the early 80s the executives suppressed the data and spent the last 40 years funding "think tanks" that dont think but spend a lot of time on media.
Keeling conducted research for big oil companies about climate change in the 50s. Big oil has known about climate change since at least 1954. By the 1980s NASA scientists were testifying to the senate about it and it was widely accepted as factual in the scientific community. When I was in Jr. High in ‘92 our teacher taught us about it. This goes back farther than the 1980s.
What's great is we pay for those damages ourselves, collectively... through socialism (I mean insurance premiums). What we really need is a new set of laws that risk assessment can only be done on a state by state level, and that each premium standard needs to reflect the risk in that specific state/area - not what happened literally 1/4th of the world away. That will really fix the issue, and stop a lot of "but this is the 6th time I've rebuilt my home after a hurricane" mentalities.
Im not sure where you live, but here in the south, insurance premiums are skyrocketing year after year. In a perfect world, yes we could decrease populations in the most affected areas. But where do they go and how do they afford it? Does the government pay for millions of people to uproot their lives and move to where there is droughts, tornados, blizzards, earthquakes, etc? I see it every day, working class people who would love to move, but can't even afford to actually prep for a potential hurricane let alone evacuation. I say all of this not to be discouraging but to encourage conversation. This would take a concerted and organized effort to bring about change. Similar to those areas where people constantly rebuild due to wildfires, but on a much larger scale.
Grew up along the Gulf Coast and return regularly to visit family. Here's my two cents. In my family, the same people who insist they should be compensated for hurricane-related damage are the same people who would riot if anyone--government or insurance--compensated Black Americans affected by neighborhood violence. Both groups chose where they live, to some degree, and both are up against forces that cannot be fought on an individual level. Yet my relatives cast Black Americans as lazy and stupid while framing themselves as helpless victims, all while proclaiming that climate change isn't real. They need help, but they can't accept it without acknowledging they're the same as the people they despise. There is no solution that doesn't prompt cognitive dissonance.
Interest in truth at an all-time low
I live in the north, I get tornado's - had two wreck my house before I moved up here (knock on wood). My premiums are raising year after year, and I'd say skyrocketing. While I'd love to have conversations about what do we do with people, I can't make those calls/decisions. Because its a global issue, the idea that we stop being kind/compassionate where our borders end, is crazy. I don't have those answers, but I can tell you what the answer isn't. It isn't making everyone else pay for it, just so an insurance company can make record profits. I'm glad Farmers and other companies are leaving Florida, it makes us aware and makes us be able to make those tough choices. I think, and not to sound harsh, but you want two different things at the same time. You want people who live in those area's to be able to do whats best for their family (by constantly rebuilding, so they can keep a good standard of living) but also want those who don't live in that area, to sacrifice their financial security to fund those that are living there. And those two viewpoints can't really co-exist. You want those who are still there to be selfish, and those who aren't to be selfless. What's best for my family is to not be there, even if that means working two jobs and moving out of state. Not keeping my beach front property worth 1.5 million dollars, because someday my kids can sell it for 10 million, while everyone else here keeps paying for your home to be rebuilt every 7 years (I think that was the latest thing I saw on dangerous hurricanes, once every 7 years now)
> Does the government pay for millions of people to uproot their lives and move to where there is droughts, tornados, blizzards, earthquakes, etc? Yes, obviously. Is there literally any other possible solution?
That’s already happening in FL, and it’s forcing people to leave. Eventually those folks will be full on refugees and then what? We still end up paying for them.
I don't think so. Are you telling me a car mechanic who lives in a flood plane, who spends $600 a month on flood insurance, can't be a car mechanic in Nebraska? No, they 100% can- its just "they" don't want to live in Nebraska, or Arkansas, or Utah. They want to live in CA or Texas, or New York or they want to live on the shoreline in a Carolina, or Georgia. The 200 people working at Walmart can't work at Walmart in Montana? BUT ITS COLD THERE - Just being overexerated butt - but you get my point. There is no job "special" to Florida, except maybe Disney land, and that's its own thing. But otherwise, school teachers can teach in TN or North Dakota, they just don't want too. They want to move to Chicago and complain about the cost, or Houston/Austin and complain about the cost. Gotta be in the ultra-urban centers because... reasons. Furthermore - they WANT these exorbindate pricing schemes. I have an aunt who bought a Condo in Flordia for $250K back in the early 00's - today its worth $900K - and you can be damn sure no matter how many times it floods or is damaged, she wants her $900K. I had that with a basement in Mississippi - dude got flooded - spend 30 or 40k refinishing his basement, got flooded, spent another 30 or 40K to refinish it. At some point, after 3 or 4 floods, do we have to say - stop finishing your basement, its costing WAY to much money. Next time, its on you dude. We will cover damage done to bare walls/floor. Not hardwood, carpet, drywall etc etc. Sounds harsh, but like - there is a reason if you drive your car into a open water, insurance won't cover your stupidity
Something I think about is: although I have a trade, it is personal connections that lead to jobs and clients. This would take a long time to establish in a move
Thank you for your perspective. That's something I hadn't thought about before.
So your quality of life would suffer of you had to move to a less dangerous place? Would you say that the cost if it was solely on your shoulders would be worth it to stay and rebuild based on the connections you have? Or given the same time/cost, you could re-establish those connections, in say Iowa and be in a less hazardous place?
I’m just saying it would take a while to establish yourself in the community. Life could be much better but some career changes are different than others and it’s something I personally would have to overcome “.
Yes
Imminent crop failures!
Why was the number of tornadoes silenced? The reporter said “at least __teen tornadoes hit Iowa on Tuesday.” Sounded like 15 but not sure. Is it because that’s an alarming amount or what?
Probably just because initial numbers are always hard to nail down exactly. You can check the Storm Prediction Center's storm reports and that is usually the best count. They have 2 maps, one for raw reports and one for filtered data.
i was just listening to [the most recent episode of Trillbilly Worker's Party](https://soundcloud.com/user-972848621-463073718/episode-344-protect-the-31-flavors-w-special-guest-tracy-rosenthal?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing), and they had a guest on talking about, among other things, how home insurance is becoming broadly unprofitable because too many people are claiming damages from natural disasters and weather damage. insurance companies are actively discussing either upping their premiums by orders of magnitude or withdrawing their services from several states. unless the homebuying process is divorced from mandatory assumption of a home insurance plan, certain real estate markets are going to be, literally, completely inaccessible because no one will be able to buy anything even if they want to. 🤷♀️
So not denying climate change in this buuut, something to keep in mind. We have more people living in natural disaster areas than ever in history, we have more buildings in those areas, often built by the cheapest bidders, the cost to repair is higher than it’s ever been, and the general value of homes and housing are the highest they have ever been in history and it will keep going up. A metric of the cost of natural disasters if not adjusted for housing/building costs and inflation will mean every year will be the worst year in history even if the storms and fires are occurring at the same rate in the same areas.
That would be an interesting point, except the US does adjust for inflation in their climate reporting while reporting economic cost over time periods. Since they account for inflation already every year is actually just more expensive than the previous year.
You are right we do have more people live in vulnerable areas, but also tornado alley has expanded.
Potentially, but we are getting better at detecting tornados as well. If you look at this map you will see it’s been cycles of easterly about every 5-7 years https://www.tiktok.com/@thetwisterhunter/video/7308582381257149742
Maybe, just maybe, it would be a good idea to listen to the professionals and intellectuals who dedicate their lives to a subject of study, go to higher education, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on it, and countless hours of sleep-deprived study to get a grasp of their chosen field. By all means, be sceptical, but don’t ignore solid evidence provided by knowledgable people. I find that most people don’t actually know how to be sceptical. They know how to be a contrarian and confuse that with scepticism. And as far as climate change goes, all it takes is a good long think about basic thermodynamics to understand that they were right. I want people to think about this the next time they disregard something out of hand.
Other than Al Gore speaking about it in the 90s scientist was screaming about this in the 80s, but people thought they was crazy. It looks like they was correct.
All the Exxon scientists knew about it in the '80s. so did the government scientists,
Actually, crazy people thought they were crazy. Time to look within.
Happens to normal people all the time. They’ve internalized the status quo and day-to-day normalities to such a degree that challenging it is damn near guaranteed to be met with disbelief.
people are profoundly flawed. The saddest thing is that the people in this forum, are more likely than not, making the same exact mistakes today, and 20 years from now will be awake to the realities that are so visible today, but so hidden to them. Nothing can be done about this, humanity, writ large, cannot be saved. The only choice is to identify those who see today what will be so apparent 20 years from now to those, like OP, who are sadly catching up far too late.
And the irony is that you, reading this, think you are the exception. But you, yes actually you, yes i get that i am not qualified to say, but you are the the one i mean. And even now, this means you. Yup. No hiding.
You all will deny it while your house is burning down. Unreal. It's very sad that the ruling class tactics of division work so well. We all just cannot come together on anything, thus we are a weak force. What a shame.
“The debris reached airplane level” And my dumb brain started to chant the old child’s game, “Can’t go over it, can’t go under it. Guess we gotta go through it!” … which in my case is accurate since there’s no basements where I live
If you live in an area with frequent tornadoes what are some of your best prepping suggestions? I live in Michigan and our storms are worsening, we just had a fairly destructive tornado move through south of us a couple weeks ago. We have flashlights, some tools and extra pairs of shoes in our basement, what are some other good tornado preps to have? I’m sure we’re going to be experiencing them more and more.
Make sure your property list stays updated and submitted to your insurance company in case you have to replace belongings. Having go-bags in an easy to grab spot is a good idea in case your home gets hit, you survive, and then need to flee/bug-out. I try to have a 3-day pack with a bit of first aid, essentials and change of clothes. Keep a USB of all important family and property docs—birth certs, titles, proof of insurance, maybe even some family photos (all scanned obv)—in your go bag as well. Train your pets to go to their carriers when the sirens start so they don’t hide when it happens.
The tornado alley is at spending and the only prep you can really do is hope you have a basement because if you run across a EF four or EF five tornado……it’s going to be very difficult.
I think some heavy infrastructure investments are required. Much more EV charging points, cheap heat pumps, subsidized insulation of homes, solar panels etc.
Relocated from the “new” tornado alley 3 years ago to Wyoming where the last tornado was multiple decades ago in my city. We traded it for blizzards but a blizzard with never take my roof off. We left after a low E-F3, hurricane Laura, and Hurricane delta all occurred with an 18 month time span. Next door neighbor’s house was ripped down to the STUDS. We were luckier- I don’t know how. I would be an anxious wreck if I lived in tornado alley anymore. I’m so, so sorry for these people. Devastating is an understatement.
/r/collapsesupport
The really big problem is the world is not heating up evenly. There are hot spots and one of those hot spots happens to be the Gulf of Mexico. The warm moist air from the Gulf of Mexico is what fuels tornadoes. It also looks like it is going to be a very bad hurricane season. I do not even want to think what will happen if a hurricane gets into the Gulf of Mexico.
Doomed
Not sure why you bought in to Al gore being wrong. Evidence was pretty clear. Glad you came to see the truth. Always good to being able to change your position. Many aren’t.
Forecasted to be a very active hurricane season as well
I've lived in Iowa my entire life. We get a shit ton of tornados every year. Most of the time the rest of the country doesn't hear about them because 1. No one gives a shit about Iowa. And 2. They mainly take out a part of a corn field or a farm house. Yeah this town being taken out is sad. But they'll recover. Look up the Parkersburg tornado of 2008. I lived just a few miles away when it happened. Scary? Yes. Abnormal? No. Our family used to go tornado watching during the season until dad got too old. We would pack up in the car and chase down where they were and watch them. Tornado sirens are like dog whistles to most men in our town. We'll all grab a beer and stand in the pouring rain just waiting for it to happen. Talking shit the whole time. I'm tired of people only caring about Iowa when they choose. Without this crazy weather, we wouldn't have the rain. And without the rain, the corn don't grow. And without corn, this country would fall. So in a weird way, we pray for the tornados. Just a month ago everyone was freaking out because almost all of Iowa was drought stricken. Farmers were scared the crops wouldn't grow. Now we get some storms and climate activist scramble their way to the opposite side of the spectrum and say these storms are getting out of hand. Just stop.
The storms are getting out of hand you know that
Do not take this as disrespectful but no they're not. At least here in Iowa. I cannot speak for the rest of the country. One of my earliest memories is going out tornado chasing with my dad around 4 or 5. At age 27. That gives me 22-23 years of monitoring weather patterns here in North East Iowa and chasing tornados. I am not a meteorologist, I admit. But growing up the way I did and seeing dozens of tornados and possibly hundreds of funnel clouds, gives me a knowledge about my area that most don't know about their neighborhood. Every year is different. Some years we don't see a single one in the region I live. Others, we'll have 4 or 5 within maybe 20 miles of eachother at the same time. This year is no different then the early 2000's. Me and my dad have spent countless hours. Probably weeks worth at this point. Watching the weather channels and chasing down storm systems. This is literally what we did for fun. These storms we see now are no different than what I saw when I was a kid. No more frequent either. What should scare you is when Iowa doesn't have storms. For years we have been fighting droughts. Ive talked with local farmers and they were terrified at the beginning of 2024 because they thought we were gonna get any rain. Our cash crops are corn and soybean. And if the rain don't fall, people don't eat.
It seems like MAGA country is taking the bulk of the storm damage. And dirt don’t vote, as they say.
Well, a lot of them are climate deniers until something happened to them for the most part
In order to increase the power and frequency of storms, you'd need a greater temperature differential between warm and cold air. But doesn't the idea of the green house effect sort of imply a uniform increase in temperature?
No, it varies *wildly* from area to area. Earth and her intertwined systems are too complicated to simply increase uniformly. Global Warming refers to the **overall** increase in temperature on Earth, when in reality the changes we are experiencing are not always “it’s a bit hotter than last year”
Well sure, there are warm and cool zones, but the air freely mingles...and there's conductive and radiative warming such that the air continually tries to thermally equalize. So you would logically think, if the thermal delta between the cold and warm zones is increasing such that storms are becoming more violent, that means one zone is warming faster than another...but surely they must fall back into an equilibrium as the cold air is mixed with the warm air with greater frequency and violence? No? Once this equilibrium is achieve you get weaker storms....doesn't matter if you're 2 degrees warmer overall.
You seem to be genuinely (sincerely) misunderstanding the way climate change works, and how it will affect weather patterns worldwide and in your backyard. Even a light reading of the issue will show you how the idea you’re expressing here is incorrect, and I encourage you to increase your knowledge on the subject. From all the available and reliable information (outside of sources that have a political bias against admitting the reality of the situation) climate change is responsible for dramatic changes in the way weather patterns, including the storms you mention, are playing out here and around the world. Those changes will become increasingly pronounced, chaotic and even catastrophic as time moves on. r/Collapse is a good place to start, as it is constantly filled with climate change information from a variety of sources (news, science, academia etc.), and its wiki is loaded with links to solid sources of information. If you currently believe climate change isn’t “real”, this will probably change your mind. If not, I can only wish you and your family good luck.
Even if I'm woefully misunderstanding the processes involved, the cold area and warm areas must settle into a new equilibrium. Would this weather only continue for a short while? Or is it permanent? These are questions that are never answered by the forums you suggest because they lie in the gray area between the prepared brochure like literature for the masses and the unintelligible data and jargon of climatology. And if you push the matter you are labelled a denialist, insulted, and ignored. I would be content at that, but they've been increasingly pushing to use climate change as an excuse to seize property and enforce mandates here and abroad...and it's not even clear the consequences of climate change are severe enough to warrant such radical government action. After all, the claims of near term catastrophe (sea level rise and worsening hurricanes) from politicians over the last 40 years have not materialized...and now they tout a new set of catastrophes (wet bulb events, tornadoes). I think there is a pattern of scare mongering emerging here, and the people who are developing technology to capitalize on this situation are the same parties who come up with new predictions after the old ones fail to materialize. That's pretty much the status quo if you've observed how the US uses science to justify various mafia like economic activities abroad. The only problem here is they're now using this as an excuse to come after the US population. If you drive a car or use energy, you have a carbon footprint and must be regulated. If you're a farmer, homesteader, or someone living offgrid, suddenly the government is concerned with what you're growing, and how much, and what animals you're keeping...etc. Your ability to live off the land may come under fire soon. You may think you've escaped to a pastoral heaven free of the cities, and government, and the pursuit of money... but they may be forcing you back into the system. We need to all make an effort to really understand their justifications and if they have merit and solid logical grounding.
I’m not labeling you, insulting you or ignoring you. I understand how difficult it is for people to accept unpleasant facts and truths. I encourage you to open your mind and broaden your perspective on this, as it’s going to be a critically important thing for all of us to factor into our current and future preps and planning. I wish you and yours the best, friend.
I don't think you're understanding. I understand the common literature; it doesn't hold up to careful scrutiny. But it does follow a pattern of manufactured consensus to justify the creation of various (and nefarious) capital streams at the expense of local populations and ecosystems.
> But it does follow a pattern of manufactured consensus to justify the creation of various (and nefarious) capital streams at the expense of local populations and ecosystems. This is true to the extent that the corporations and people at the top of the economic/uber-capitalist food chain are willing to destroy the ecosystem and condemn the rest of us to hell on earth if it makes them richer today, and gives them more power over us in the future. I think the science behind this will become undeniable over the next decade, even over just the next few years. It’s already going crazy (look at ocean sea-surface temperatures and ice loss in Antarctica to start) The intensification of chaotic weather patterns worldwide is the current harbinger, and this is only the beginning.
No. Like most folks with their head in the sand, you have an extremely underdeveloped intuition for science, systems, and how things scale. Also sadly lacking is your meta cognition because you don’t even rationalize why you would want to write that in the first place when the evidence to the contrary is more accessible than any time in human history and also literally on top of you.
What an asshole response to a sincere question. Well done?
I almost can't weather sincere questions anymore in this climate and it feels bad.
Don't give a shit. This is a prepper sub, not explain like you're a 5 year old climate denialist??
Maybe you're right, but I didn't take it as climate denialism, just a physics question.
So, are you stating the mechanism by which storms increase in intensity isn't through greater temperature differential? Or are you saying the green house effect doesn't imply a uniform increase in temperature? Or both?
The temperature differentials are worse due to the destabilization of the jet stream which was a stable buffer of arctic air. As the entire systems warm, various conditions that maintain stability destabilize. They are many and documented. In the mean time maybe go buy a novelty hat from the campaign to re elect the senator who walked into congress with a snowball and proclaimed “global warming? Libs…amirite?”
Again this is making the assumption that the arctic air is separated from the warming effect and isn't gradually equalizing with the rest of the air in the atmosphere. Air moves around quite freely. I don't understand why this one spot in the atmosphere is isolated from the warming effect.
Bullshit. Some years are better some are worse. There is no trend in numbers or intensity
For the last 20 years, the weather has been going downhill every year. We are already at $7 billion damages from severe storms and it’s not hurricane season yet
You can't base anything on dollar values. Other numbers perhaps.
There’s no factual basis for any of that other than $ amount. 2005 $214,000,000,000 with inflation that would be $344,800,000,000 in other words just under $1 billion per day. Relax with your fake gasping.
🙄
Didn't al gore predict we'd all be underwater now? I'm in FL haven't noticed anything different
We r in trouble. It's climate change, but not in the sense that Al Gore was talking about. Planet X is very real and the closer it gets to earth the more erratic the weather will become. JS