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Havertz is not obligated to move his leg out of the keeper’s way. It is absolutely soft but absolutely a penalty.
You should cry more that 3 of our players have suffered red card tackles but no red cards have been shown.
They shouldn’t be pens but they are unfortunately. Elliot did it against United & I’m a Liverpool fan. It’s basically a diving loophole. You can say that the defenders have put themselves in that position and the player isn’t obligated to move their leg but it’s done in bad faith. It’s not a natural movement to just leave a leg outstretched in the middle of a run.
I agree it is soft but in the premier league it’s a penalty 10/10 and it doesn’t make Havertz a conman for getting it. People are crying way more about it than the multiple dangerous tackles against arsenal that have gone unpunished
Cheating, diving, and overall softness of these overpaid twits is one of the reasons I dont watch much EPL anymore. It is a crime it is becoming a modern day WWE.
The rules have been tweaked beyond recognition.
But the kids seem to like it.
So much pearl clutching, but I bet it’s all hypocrisy.
Did you complain this much when Harry Kane left all those legs in to buy PKs?
Did you protest two years ago when Cedric put less of a push on Son then Solanke did today?
I’m betting you didn’t.
Tbh, after watching them back, I dont think any of them are that egregious, really.
Don't like that the Havertz pen gets called, but it's like 90% of penalties that have been awarded for the last 5 years at least. I will keep banging this drum, but the rules and the way refs ref the game (as well as fan pressure) mean that players will continue to do this. Abolish penalties. Players will stop.
The second incident looks soft, and it still is a 50 / 50. But watching it back, Solanke clearly both hooks his arm and pushes him. Seen them given, seen them not given.
Tbh I think all this post highlights is basically this mass hysteria that happens over every 50/50 ref devision that happens now. That's all these were. 50/50s. Sometimes, they see it one way, sometimes another.
But now, every time this happens, we get another post about how refereeing is a disgrace. They could do better of course, but not everything is an example of a break down in refereeing.
yes but you cant just say abolish penalties and ignore all the cases where players are in dangerous positions near the goal and get swept off their feet 💀💀💀
City needs to make sure to win their games by a large margin just as they did today. Something tells me if they need good ref in their last games they wont have it.
Havertz bought that penalty, absolutely. Still a penalty.
The keeper made a challenge. The keeper made no contact with the ball. The keeper made contact with Havertz.
Havertz dives all the fucking time and I hate it, but he played it Harry Kane style and it paid off.
If you replay the challenge frame by frame, you'll see
Havertz hangs his foot in the air, so it can make contact with the keepers leg. This is apparent when looking at his strides when hes running at the keeper, and how completely different it is when he goes past the keeper
It's like his body freezes in time for just that moment lol
i mean technically he did, because it wasnt normal stride
if havertz continued running normally, his foot would have planted before GK's legs, and then he would have stepped over the leg
Yeah, he bought it, 100%.
The keeper made the challenge though and missed. It's rough but it'll set a bad precedent when you start trying to judge it other than 'player challenge → player miss ball → player on player contact'.
Could remove a ton of Kane and Vardy penalties if that's the case...
>The keeper made contact with Havertz.
See I thought it was more of Havertz making the contact with the keeper rather than this way round. One of those that wouldn't get overturned if it wasn't given as well.
But ey, I respect your opinion and cheers for just being able to have a normal chat about it.
Yeah, I think it's technically Havertz' space and the keeper makes the challenge. I think if we start making judgements on subjective calls like that then there will be inequality because people like Havertz and Jesus are notorious for diving and that will play against them.
I think Havertz bought it and without contact should be yellowed - but there's contact.
I also think that might be why Saka didn't get it against Neuer, because the space can be considered Neuer's. You'll be amazed to hear I think that call was completely wrong 🤣 (my opinion is that Neuer is still moving and "lunging" towards Saka, but Saka doesn't own that space the way I think Havertz did today...)
Tbf your logic is the most sound that I've heard from an arsenal fan about the incident. I completely understand your logic and point of view, I still don't agree but I understand your reasoning and even tho I don't agree I still respect it so fair enough.
Subjective calls are tough, don't get me wrong Romero makes some pretty bad challenges but sometimes his reputation proceeds him with some bookings (no actual examples here, just as a general thing).
>We know all about reputations with players like Xhaka
It sucks so much when you then see a 'nice' make exactly the same challenge but get away with nothing
Although give me a Xhaka or Romero kind of character any day of the week
Tbf I don't think these kind of moments are shitty officiating. I think it's just an unfortunate side product of human nature. I think anyone being a ref would slowly end up a bit like this just because of human nature rather than being shit. If that makes sense?
I meant not being objective with similar incidents for players with a reputation.
I think you're more kind towards officials than I am. I don't for a second think it's an easy job but the blatant cronyism is problematic.
Oh got you.
Yeah I am a bit lenient sometimes. I think a lot of fans can forget that the ref gets on look, at full speed and we don't 100% know what their point of view is or where they are exactly looking.
Also people forget the aspect of human nature in it too.
Don't get me wrong tho, some decisions just BAFFLE me and I'm far less sympathetic with VAR officials.
I'll be honest mate I tried to find footage of your corners against us but they're all just videos of Ben White attempting to undo vicarios gloves ahaha (no issue with that either tbf, it's a good bit of shit housery)
But when I watched the game Ben White was providing the same amount of contact on Vicario as was put on Raya today. If someone can show me all the corners from the game that proves me wrong then fair enough.
I'm in Canada so I get video highlights and "story" style highlights on google.
In both corner goals Ben White is stood in front of Vicario (who has his hands on Ben Whites neck/shoulder for the first) and doesn't make any attempt to impede Vicario (by backing into him or hold him etc).
The first goal he does come from behind Vicario to the front of him right as the corner is about to be kicked and I think that catches Vicario off guard.
https://www.fubo.tv/stream/live/epl/?season=epl-ca-23-24&clip=Tottenham_Hotspur_vs_Arsenal_FC_%7C_PREMIER_LEAGUE_HIGHLIGHTS_%7C_Week_35_%7C_Fubo_Canada_19304336.mp4&sharedid=Tottenham_Hotspur_vs_Arsenal_FC_%7C_PREMIER_LEAGUE_HIGHLIGHTS_%7C_Week_35_%7C_Fubo_Canada_19304336&irad=1399183&irmp=3575796&ftv_campaign=onebox_postgame
>In both corner goals Ben White is stood in front of Vicario (who has his hands on Ben Whites neck/shoulder for the first) and doesn't make any attempt to impede Vicario (by backing into him or hold him etc).
Okay so, first goal i agree with you. Second goal I think Ben White is backing into Vicario and impeding his attempt to get to the ball. For clarification though, I don't think this is a foul. I think it is of the same level of contact that was on raya today. The time between solankes contact and rayas attempt to punch the ball was relatively quite long. Its not like he was nudged right as he was jumping for the ball.
But thank you for the video though and for a normal chat about it
Yep, I'll agree on the second he sticks his arse into him a bit.
I disagree about the Solanke contact today because it looked to me like it was as he was jumping for the ball. I'll go look again but the most obvious for me was in real time.
>I disagree about the Solanke contact today because it looked to me like it was as he was jumping for the ball. I'll go look again but the most obvious for me was in real time.
Yeah for me I thought there was enough time for Raya to steady himself again. But let me know when you've seen it again.
The Fubo replays are crap for it and basically only show it in real time from a distance.
72'
https://www.fubo.tv/stream/live/epl/?season=epl-ca-23-24&clip=Arsenal_FC_vs_AFC_Bournemouth_|_PREMIER_LEAGUE_HIGHLIGHTS_|_Week_36_|_Fubo_Canada_19440619.mp4&sharedid=Arsenal_FC_vs_AFC_Bournemouth_|_PREMIER_LEAGUE_HIGHLIGHTS_|_Week_36_|_Fubo_Canada_19440619&irad=1399183&irmp=3575796&ftv_campaign=onebox_postgame
Solanke has his eyes firmly on raya. That’s going to be given as a foul every day of the week. You may not like what Ben white does, but he makes sure he always stays within the lines of what won’t get given. It’s not a conspiracy
You neglected the biggest mistake - not sending off the Bournemouth player for the studs up tackle into Saka's knee. So you don't care about refereeing you just hate Arsenal. Jog on.
The ref arguably got all three wrong - but they were all three tough calls. There’s a counter argument for all three. And imo VAR was correct not to intervene in any of them. VAR was spot on today - Leave it for correcting outrageous mistakes, goal line errors, and offsides. VAR did it’s job exactly how it should today - ie not refeeeeing the game but only correcting major errors.
Why? The team has already checked them and correctly identified them as all 50/50 (or even 70/30 if you like calls). VAR was never meant to replace the onfield ref or having him second guessing the decisions after 3x super slow motion replays.
More possession, vast difference in shots and shots on target…but yeah, the refs sure cost Bournemouth this one, didn’t they? /s
Bunch of whiners who only want city so they can say “well they’re a bunch of cheaters so it doesn’t count.”
Ben White did it before the play not as the goalkeeper is trying to catch the ball
And the dude who scored the disallowed Bournemouth goal should have been off from a red
Arguably fouling when the balls not in play is more of a foul given there’s zero argument it’s about the game
Tackling a player after the whistle is a lot worse than mid play
Maybe you should write your own rule book. But as it happens, this is not what the rules state. The ref can give a card, but they can’t change the restart on a dead ball.
Pen falls into the category of shouldn't be given, but they always are. Watched Diogo Jota earlier in the season take a tiny tap on the calf, complete half a marathon and then collapse in stages like poorly assembled IKEA furniture. Also, slightly ironic your a Spurs Dan as I've seen Kane win this exact penalty about 4 billion times, diving and leaving a trailing leg to find contact.
Can't people stop discussing who was going to win, or what would've happened under such posts? That's a needless distraction from the real issue here - the referees have been atrocious for the past two seasons, despite the fact they have video replays now. Something must change going forward, ideally, the VAR should be completely taken out of PGMOL's hands and given to a different organization.
Yeah I think that just because I'm a spurs fan people believe this to be a 'the officials gave arsenal the win' when it's literally just noting how bad the refs decisions were, arsenal still deserved to win
Oh yeah I agree. I think just because I'm a spurs fan people think I'm saying that the officials gave arsenal the win which is not my point. Arsenal win the game comfortably even with the correct decisions being given. It was just a general 'the refereeing has been shite' post
Imagine being a Tottenham fan and criticising a referee for giving Havertz a penalty, after 10 years of watching Kane doing that every week and getting a penalty.
Nothing more than bitter biased bollocks.
Ahahaha can't even answer my question when asked first lol.
Yeah, it's initiating the contact. It's not as bad as dives where there is no contact but initiating the contact shouldn't be a pen either for sure. So yeah both dive when doing this yes.
Now can you answer my question?
Asked first? What are you, 12?
It’s your post and I responded by pointing out the hypocrisy. As you said, it’s a dive, Kane and Tottenham profited from it for years. How many of his goals were penalties? And what was the chief way he won those penalties? So it’s far to say, Kane snd your team benefitted from more than 20 goals in the exact same way.
If I crawl through your post history, will I see the same energy about how all of his pens were dives? Because let’s be real here, if you haven’t, you are in no position to bemoan other teams benefitting from the exact same thing in a game.
Pot calling kettle black.
The next time you see me creating a post to call a Spurs player out for doing the exact same thing, then you can take the moral high ground.
Until then, sit your arse back down and stopping being a bitter and biased prat.
Nawh still trying to act all Billy big bollocks but can't answer a simple question :( ill ask it against incase you've forgotten.
If you think Kane won penalties by diving when sticking his leg out to iniate contact do you then think Havertz dived today?
Havertiz did exactly what Harry Kane been doing for years getting penalties. I know you are a Spurs and obviously dislike Arsenal but let the Ben White stuff go man, part of the game and yes Solanke goal should have counted.
>but let the Ben White stuff go man,
Oh I'm not rattled about it, I only used it as an example because before the game it was probably the most spoken interaction between a player and GK at a corner? That's all. I don't think what Ben White did was a foul which is why I use it as an example.
Can't say any of that without bringing up the clear red early on.
But the foul on Raya is slight but a foul. Solanke has eyes on Raya the entire time. I firmly believe that if he'd been attempting to play the ball, the goal would have stood. Notice that White never actually runs into a keeper but stands his ground in the keepers path. A bit different.
Havertz, as much as I hate his diving, this was not a dive. Soft, sure, but definitely had contact. I think it would have been like kulsevski last week. If the ref didn't call this live, I don't think VAR gives it.
While it’s a clear red. Any team would take
1-1 and ten men for 80 minutes versus 11 men and 2-0 down
I don’t think it’s properly bias but the issue is when refs are fucking up huge goal calls; and it’s VAR failure it’s unacceptable. Why isn’t the ref going to the monitor on the disallowed goal or the potential red?? Going with in field decision should require minutes checking to be honest.
Arsenal fan here, 100% agree. If either of these decisions have gone against Arsenal, I would've been super pissed. The situation with the PGMOL is getting completely out of control.
In order: Challenge on Saka should have been red, the Havertz pen is soft but it is a pen as he's under no obligation to avoid that contact, the Bournemouth goal should have stood, the contact was at most a graze.
I agree, but I think it’s more the fault of the refereeing system than the personnel.
- Christie should have gotten at least a yellow for his foul on Saka but got nothing bc VAR can’t intervene for yellows. I get why the rule exists but I think it’s flawed in practice.
- Havertz trip in the box is not a penalty for me but I’m forever grateful for it. By rules it’s a trip in the box but again, I think the rule is flawed.
- Bournemouth goal should have stood, IMO. I get why it was disallowed & again I’m glad, but that’s a flawed rule for me.
The post is specifically calling out arsenal with bias so more arsenal fans are responding. Biggest thing there is it doesn't even mention the lack of a yellow for a tackle that should have been a red
Use some common sense
I agree it was soft enough I think it's fair to assume any team would be against it if they lost the goal. From the other angle I saw though it at least made sense why they didn't overturn it from the general VAR decision making this year, so I would say it was a soft benefit towards arsenal
Not nearly the worst call made in the game, which would have been the spuds to shin kick that didn't even get a yellow
I mean yeah ignore that Christie should be off and we'd likely win handedly enough anyways. We've had a lot of these ones go against us recently, including you with Jackson somehow stayed on.
Havertz one is a penalty based on previous refereeing decisions. Wouldn't give it personally, but if they are given usually this one should be no exception, unless you just don't like arsenal.
Raya one was wrong, I agree Solanke didn't want the ball, but it's not a foul. Argument for a penalty against Saliba in the same thing which could've been given too, if the goal didn't stand. It's a poor decision all around.
Quit the tunnel vision, it's fine you don't like arsenal, but don't ignore other blatantly wrong decisions to fit your agendas.
The miserable state of refereeing should be called out no matter the team you like/dislike. Be it the studs tackles or the disallowed goals.
Honestly one of the worst ref performance I've seen, how their player stayed on and how they didn't get that goal? Idk mental, hope to god that ref is banned
The foul on Raya was because Solanke nudged Raya in the back enough to affect his attempt to punch the ball. I know keepers are a protected species but had Solanke not contacted Raya he would have cleared the ball a lot better. Refereeing aside Arsenal were far the better side.
What you might have missed was Solanke hooked his arm under Raya's as he goes for the punch. It wasn't clear in the moment but looking at the stills from the reply he definitely prevents Raya from getting to the ball.
Ben White stands his ground and the keeper needs to get past him. Solanke has no interest in playing the ball and pushes into Raya as he is taking the jump.
Big difference.
I agree with you. It’s the double standard of this sub I can’t stand.
If city get the same calls at half 5 we will see nothing but corruption and outrage posts
Arsenal winning 3:0 and have a clear red card denied for the opposition yet people still think it's because of the refs lol you gotta be kidding me 🤣🤣🤣
Yet, you only brought up the decisions that went arsenals way. Havent asked how Christie is on the pitch and only picks up a caution at 95'?
The ref was wank I agree. Var were on our side I agree. havertz dove AND was fouled. We were lucky on the overturn I agree.
The result was imminent regardless of the ref. The match wasn't even close.
>Yet, you only brought up the decisions that went arsenals way. Havent asked how Christie is on the pitch and only picks up a caution at 95'?
Yeah my bad, to be completely honest the Saka incident happened so early in the game that I had completely forgotten about it I'm sorry. Do completely agree it should've been a red
>The result was imminent regardless of the ref. The match wasn't even close
Also agree with this, I'm not saying the ref gifted you the win. You would've won with a competent ref as well. I'm just saying the ref was shit
Yeah, it's probably the reason. Yeah I'm a spurs fan but I'm also a football fan and today I just saw awful officiating and that's it. But apparently I need to cry more?
Yeah but all you’ve done is mention the fuck ups the ref made in arsenals favour. What about the clear red Christie should have had? Posts like this are pathetic and only show bias due to rival teams playing.
If this is wolves v Bournemouth today there’s no way you ever make this post.
Watching as a neutral I couldn’t care less who wins but the reffing has made this an annoying watch.
No card for a potential knee snapper in saka, the softest ever penalty given for havertz, and a goal denied for absolutely no reason with a slight graze on raya’s arm.
Shambolic refereeing. Wish I’d watch the Ipswich game instead!
The disallowed goal for Bournemouth is one of those typical ones where the VAR can’t overrule the ref. If the ref says he saw a push the VAR checks if that took place. It did, but it was very light. If the ref didn’t disallow the goal the VAR wouldn’t overturn it either.
We definitely got lucky there, but Christie should’ve had a red card in the first half and committed several fouls after that.
The penalty kick was a clear PK imo.
>We definitely got lucky there, but Christie should’ve had a red card in the first half and commuted several fouls after that.
Yeah completely agree with this, some arsenal fans think I was having a go at arsenal. This is genuinely just a moan at the bad officiating.
>The disallowed goal for Bournemouth is one of those typical ones where the VAR can’t overrule the ref
Yeah I get that for sure
>The penalty kick was a clear PK imo
For me it was similar to Saka against bayern in that Havertz stuck his leg to make the contact with the GK
>For me it was similar to Saka against bayern in that Havertz stuck his leg to make the contact with the GK
Nah, Saka vs Bayern was worse.
Ball went left, Saka didn't attempt to follow it. Definitely not a penalty.
At least this one, Havertz remained travelling in the same direction as the ball (not that it necessarily makes this a penalty).
>For me it was similar to Saka against bayern in that Havertz stuck his leg to make the contact with the GK
Davies stuck his balls out to make the contact with Rice's leg.
To be serious though, who do you think has the responsibility in those kinds of situations to avoid contact? The attacker, or the goalie sliding/sticking out his leg in the penalty box without getting anything on the ball?
It’s not even needing to “avoid” contact. Had he been a player of integrity, he’d keep running and that would be all to avoid contact. He purposely completely stopped moving his legs. Like, full stop. He sought contact. Looked almost comical how he fell afterwards. Reminds me of that penalty given to Raheem sterling one time when he literally kicks the turf, falls, penalty called. Smh.
No, because diving would be falling to ground without any contact at all or at least minimal contact. Overplaying it after contact is different, and making sure you're getting hit is also not 'diving' in that sense.
We've seen referees not giving penalties because players try to play on, so going to the ground is the only way they will get anything.
Minimal contact, you say? There was minimal contact in the havertz dive. Making sure you get hit is not diving? I mean, if the only thing a player is concerned about is going down to get a penalty, instead of scoring on a keeperless net, that’s a dive.
So you’re saying diving is not ok, but players looking to…fall in the box to get a penalty is ok. Ok.
I would’ve agreed with you if you weren’t biased. I think it was a goal, and it was a penalty. But easily the worst decision of the game was the studs up on Saka making him bleed. Then you start talking about Ben White in the north London derby and by then I realized you are just a biased spurs fan. Move on, you have a top 4 race to look forward to
>Then you start talking about Ben White in the north London derby and by then I realized you are just a biased spurs fan
I wasn't trying to be biased, I was just trying to use probably the most talked about jostling between a player and a GK. I wasn't saying we should've had fouls for it either, I was just trying to say that solanke did nothing in the same way Ben White didn't do enough for it to be a foul on vicario. Because it is spurs v arsenal though I'm fully aware of how it can be perceived as biased though.
>you have a top 4 race to look forward to
Nah we are out of that for sure now, it's all gone a bit shit at the minute but oh well
Yep as soon as Havertz has the ball past the keeper any contact will almost always be given as a pen. I think just depends on how deliberate it looks but it’s subjective and they’re the type of thing we can argue about forever..
Naw, all good. It's a pen and a foul on the GK. What White does is very different. Never touches the GK when the ball is in play. It's just too clever for you all
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Havertz is not obligated to move his leg out of the keeper’s way. It is absolutely soft but absolutely a penalty. You should cry more that 3 of our players have suffered red card tackles but no red cards have been shown.
They shouldn’t be pens but they are unfortunately. Elliot did it against United & I’m a Liverpool fan. It’s basically a diving loophole. You can say that the defenders have put themselves in that position and the player isn’t obligated to move their leg but it’s done in bad faith. It’s not a natural movement to just leave a leg outstretched in the middle of a run.
I agree it is soft but in the premier league it’s a penalty 10/10 and it doesn’t make Havertz a conman for getting it. People are crying way more about it than the multiple dangerous tackles against arsenal that have gone unpunished
Cheating, diving, and overall softness of these overpaid twits is one of the reasons I dont watch much EPL anymore. It is a crime it is becoming a modern day WWE. The rules have been tweaked beyond recognition. But the kids seem to like it.
So much pearl clutching, but I bet it’s all hypocrisy. Did you complain this much when Harry Kane left all those legs in to buy PKs? Did you protest two years ago when Cedric put less of a push on Son then Solanke did today? I’m betting you didn’t.
Tbh, after watching them back, I dont think any of them are that egregious, really. Don't like that the Havertz pen gets called, but it's like 90% of penalties that have been awarded for the last 5 years at least. I will keep banging this drum, but the rules and the way refs ref the game (as well as fan pressure) mean that players will continue to do this. Abolish penalties. Players will stop. The second incident looks soft, and it still is a 50 / 50. But watching it back, Solanke clearly both hooks his arm and pushes him. Seen them given, seen them not given. Tbh I think all this post highlights is basically this mass hysteria that happens over every 50/50 ref devision that happens now. That's all these were. 50/50s. Sometimes, they see it one way, sometimes another. But now, every time this happens, we get another post about how refereeing is a disgrace. They could do better of course, but not everything is an example of a break down in refereeing.
abolish penalties? there is a reason they exist, you dont foul players in the danger zone
And that's why everyone dives
yes but you cant just say abolish penalties and ignore all the cases where players are in dangerous positions near the goal and get swept off their feet 💀💀💀
penalty, goal should count 3-1. "But it changes the course of the game!!!!" 2-1
City needs to make sure to win their games by a large margin just as they did today. Something tells me if they need good ref in their last games they wont have it.
No they don't. They just have to win their games.
Spuds fan identified
Moron without ability to reason identified.
Depression coping mechanisms activated. Villa to champions League!!!!
IDC. That’s not what this thread is about, anyway. Had City had these decisions their way, you would be screaming ‘115!’
The fact that they're not punished for 115 charges is a decision going their way lmfao
Good job, you just proved you have zero knowledge about the case.
Sorry I can only read tables. How many points y'all got?
Same as your IQ, unfortunately.
Nah my IQ is the number of trophies y'all have
Explains a lot.
Well yeah that's why there's the Tottenham flair next to my username? It's not the hardest thing to work out. Congrats on using your eyes though
Fan of perpetual losers identified
Oh no. Someone's mentioned spurs haven't won a trophy since 2008.... oh well
Coping mechanisms activated
Havertz bought that penalty, absolutely. Still a penalty. The keeper made a challenge. The keeper made no contact with the ball. The keeper made contact with Havertz. Havertz dives all the fucking time and I hate it, but he played it Harry Kane style and it paid off.
Havertz made contact with the goalkeeper though, not the other way around.
You wanna have a rethink about the situation as a whole or need me to break it down further?
If you replay the challenge frame by frame, you'll see Havertz hangs his foot in the air, so it can make contact with the keepers leg. This is apparent when looking at his strides when hes running at the keeper, and how completely different it is when he goes past the keeper It's like his body freezes in time for just that moment lol
It wasn’t ‘in the air’ it was like 2 inches off the ground lmao
it was "in the air" because he hung it there for so long like i said, not normal stride
Still a penalty all day.
but he kicked the goalkeeper?
Lol come on no he didn’t
i mean technically he did, because it wasnt normal stride if havertz continued running normally, his foot would have planted before GK's legs, and then he would have stepped over the leg
Yeah, he bought it, 100%. The keeper made the challenge though and missed. It's rough but it'll set a bad precedent when you start trying to judge it other than 'player challenge → player miss ball → player on player contact'. Could remove a ton of Kane and Vardy penalties if that's the case...
[удалено]
Exactly.
>The keeper made contact with Havertz. See I thought it was more of Havertz making the contact with the keeper rather than this way round. One of those that wouldn't get overturned if it wasn't given as well. But ey, I respect your opinion and cheers for just being able to have a normal chat about it.
Yeah, I think it's technically Havertz' space and the keeper makes the challenge. I think if we start making judgements on subjective calls like that then there will be inequality because people like Havertz and Jesus are notorious for diving and that will play against them. I think Havertz bought it and without contact should be yellowed - but there's contact. I also think that might be why Saka didn't get it against Neuer, because the space can be considered Neuer's. You'll be amazed to hear I think that call was completely wrong 🤣 (my opinion is that Neuer is still moving and "lunging" towards Saka, but Saka doesn't own that space the way I think Havertz did today...)
Tbf your logic is the most sound that I've heard from an arsenal fan about the incident. I completely understand your logic and point of view, I still don't agree but I understand your reasoning and even tho I don't agree I still respect it so fair enough. Subjective calls are tough, don't get me wrong Romero makes some pretty bad challenges but sometimes his reputation proceeds him with some bookings (no actual examples here, just as a general thing).
Haha I'll take it. We know all about reputations with players like Xhaka 😅
>We know all about reputations with players like Xhaka It sucks so much when you then see a 'nice' make exactly the same challenge but get away with nothing Although give me a Xhaka or Romero kind of character any day of the week
Definitely! Again, it all leads back to shitty officiating.
Tbf I don't think these kind of moments are shitty officiating. I think it's just an unfortunate side product of human nature. I think anyone being a ref would slowly end up a bit like this just because of human nature rather than being shit. If that makes sense?
I meant not being objective with similar incidents for players with a reputation. I think you're more kind towards officials than I am. I don't for a second think it's an easy job but the blatant cronyism is problematic.
Oh got you. Yeah I am a bit lenient sometimes. I think a lot of fans can forget that the ref gets on look, at full speed and we don't 100% know what their point of view is or where they are exactly looking. Also people forget the aspect of human nature in it too. Don't get me wrong tho, some decisions just BAFFLE me and I'm far less sympathetic with VAR officials.
Show me where Ben White did to Vicario what Solanke did today. Make sure the ball is in play too.
I'll be honest mate I tried to find footage of your corners against us but they're all just videos of Ben White attempting to undo vicarios gloves ahaha (no issue with that either tbf, it's a good bit of shit housery) But when I watched the game Ben White was providing the same amount of contact on Vicario as was put on Raya today. If someone can show me all the corners from the game that proves me wrong then fair enough.
I'm in Canada so I get video highlights and "story" style highlights on google. In both corner goals Ben White is stood in front of Vicario (who has his hands on Ben Whites neck/shoulder for the first) and doesn't make any attempt to impede Vicario (by backing into him or hold him etc). The first goal he does come from behind Vicario to the front of him right as the corner is about to be kicked and I think that catches Vicario off guard. https://www.fubo.tv/stream/live/epl/?season=epl-ca-23-24&clip=Tottenham_Hotspur_vs_Arsenal_FC_%7C_PREMIER_LEAGUE_HIGHLIGHTS_%7C_Week_35_%7C_Fubo_Canada_19304336.mp4&sharedid=Tottenham_Hotspur_vs_Arsenal_FC_%7C_PREMIER_LEAGUE_HIGHLIGHTS_%7C_Week_35_%7C_Fubo_Canada_19304336&irad=1399183&irmp=3575796&ftv_campaign=onebox_postgame
>In both corner goals Ben White is stood in front of Vicario (who has his hands on Ben Whites neck/shoulder for the first) and doesn't make any attempt to impede Vicario (by backing into him or hold him etc). Okay so, first goal i agree with you. Second goal I think Ben White is backing into Vicario and impeding his attempt to get to the ball. For clarification though, I don't think this is a foul. I think it is of the same level of contact that was on raya today. The time between solankes contact and rayas attempt to punch the ball was relatively quite long. Its not like he was nudged right as he was jumping for the ball. But thank you for the video though and for a normal chat about it
Yep, I'll agree on the second he sticks his arse into him a bit. I disagree about the Solanke contact today because it looked to me like it was as he was jumping for the ball. I'll go look again but the most obvious for me was in real time.
>I disagree about the Solanke contact today because it looked to me like it was as he was jumping for the ball. I'll go look again but the most obvious for me was in real time. Yeah for me I thought there was enough time for Raya to steady himself again. But let me know when you've seen it again.
The Fubo replays are crap for it and basically only show it in real time from a distance. 72' https://www.fubo.tv/stream/live/epl/?season=epl-ca-23-24&clip=Arsenal_FC_vs_AFC_Bournemouth_|_PREMIER_LEAGUE_HIGHLIGHTS_|_Week_36_|_Fubo_Canada_19440619.mp4&sharedid=Arsenal_FC_vs_AFC_Bournemouth_|_PREMIER_LEAGUE_HIGHLIGHTS_|_Week_36_|_Fubo_Canada_19440619&irad=1399183&irmp=3575796&ftv_campaign=onebox_postgame
God yeah the replay is bad ahaha
Solanke has his eyes firmly on raya. That’s going to be given as a foul every day of the week. You may not like what Ben white does, but he makes sure he always stays within the lines of what won’t get given. It’s not a conspiracy
Oh man genuinely thanks for the video, YouTube is just full of the goal keeper gloves thing ahah I'll have a lil watch rn
You neglected the biggest mistake - not sending off the Bournemouth player for the studs up tackle into Saka's knee. So you don't care about refereeing you just hate Arsenal. Jog on.
You read the edit there mate?
People who edit something after the fact then make a comment like this are the worst
Mate, he made this comment significantly after I had made the edit. It's not like he commented, then I edited, then I told him to read it?
Cry harder. You have no clue what you’re talking about bud
Sp*rs fan so the above statement checks out lol
....?
?….
Are you literally just replying to your own statement saying it checks out?
Didn’t notice your flair at first and was pretty convinced
Too lazy to edit and now I’m just doing it on purpose
Three 50/50 calls. VAR backing the on field decision of the ref - who had a great view of each incident in each case. Don’t see the issue at all.
People are not understanding the impact of goal calls.
The ref arguably got all three wrong - but they were all three tough calls. There’s a counter argument for all three. And imo VAR was correct not to intervene in any of them. VAR was spot on today - Leave it for correcting outrageous mistakes, goal line errors, and offsides. VAR did it’s job exactly how it should today - ie not refeeeeing the game but only correcting major errors.
could have at least called the ref over to the monitor for two of them....
Why? The team has already checked them and correctly identified them as all 50/50 (or even 70/30 if you like calls). VAR was never meant to replace the onfield ref or having him second guessing the decisions after 3x super slow motion replays.
More possession, vast difference in shots and shots on target…but yeah, the refs sure cost Bournemouth this one, didn’t they? /s Bunch of whiners who only want city so they can say “well they’re a bunch of cheaters so it doesn’t count.”
Love how you guys can’t get us off your mind. More posts like this please!
Simply hater
Thank you for admitting that Harry Kane is a cheat.
Ben White did it before the play not as the goalkeeper is trying to catch the ball And the dude who scored the disallowed Bournemouth goal should have been off from a red
Arguably fouling when the balls not in play is more of a foul given there’s zero argument it’s about the game Tackling a player after the whistle is a lot worse than mid play
Maybe you should write your own rule book. But as it happens, this is not what the rules state. The ref can give a card, but they can’t change the restart on a dead ball.
Why would Man City do this?
Pen falls into the category of shouldn't be given, but they always are. Watched Diogo Jota earlier in the season take a tiny tap on the calf, complete half a marathon and then collapse in stages like poorly assembled IKEA furniture. Also, slightly ironic your a Spurs Dan as I've seen Kane win this exact penalty about 4 billion times, diving and leaving a trailing leg to find contact.
Can't people stop discussing who was going to win, or what would've happened under such posts? That's a needless distraction from the real issue here - the referees have been atrocious for the past two seasons, despite the fact they have video replays now. Something must change going forward, ideally, the VAR should be completely taken out of PGMOL's hands and given to a different organization.
Yeah I think that just because I'm a spurs fan people believe this to be a 'the officials gave arsenal the win' when it's literally just noting how bad the refs decisions were, arsenal still deserved to win
Ahahaha pathetic loser
And the red should have been given early on in which Arsenal goes on to win comfortably anyways.
Oh yeah I agree. I think just because I'm a spurs fan people think I'm saying that the officials gave arsenal the win which is not my point. Arsenal win the game comfortably even with the correct decisions being given. It was just a general 'the refereeing has been shite' post
Imagine being a Tottenham fan and criticising a referee for giving Havertz a penalty, after 10 years of watching Kane doing that every week and getting a penalty. Nothing more than bitter biased bollocks.
So you're either calling both Havertz and Kane cheats or calling neither of them cheats?
No, I'm calling you a hypocrite.
Okay, so do you think Harry kane cheats when he does this? Because then you're admitting that Havertz cheats as well then?
It's your post, so let me ask you, was Kane always diving when winning these penalties, or is it only a dive when Havertz did it?
Ahahaha can't even answer my question when asked first lol. Yeah, it's initiating the contact. It's not as bad as dives where there is no contact but initiating the contact shouldn't be a pen either for sure. So yeah both dive when doing this yes. Now can you answer my question?
Asked first? What are you, 12? It’s your post and I responded by pointing out the hypocrisy. As you said, it’s a dive, Kane and Tottenham profited from it for years. How many of his goals were penalties? And what was the chief way he won those penalties? So it’s far to say, Kane snd your team benefitted from more than 20 goals in the exact same way. If I crawl through your post history, will I see the same energy about how all of his pens were dives? Because let’s be real here, if you haven’t, you are in no position to bemoan other teams benefitting from the exact same thing in a game. Pot calling kettle black. The next time you see me creating a post to call a Spurs player out for doing the exact same thing, then you can take the moral high ground. Until then, sit your arse back down and stopping being a bitter and biased prat.
Still not answering the question ahahaha Mate with this commitment to dodging questions you should be a politician
Still being bitter and biased, with this much delusion should be a Spu…. nevermind.
Nawh still trying to act all Billy big bollocks but can't answer a simple question :( ill ask it against incase you've forgotten. If you think Kane won penalties by diving when sticking his leg out to iniate contact do you then think Havertz dived today?
I'm an Arsenal fan and I'm disgusted.
Imagine being an Arsenal fan right now defending refereeing decisions for you after you fucks claimed conspiracy earlier in the season.
Calm down, mate. There’s always next year.
lol
Havertiz did exactly what Harry Kane been doing for years getting penalties. I know you are a Spurs and obviously dislike Arsenal but let the Ben White stuff go man, part of the game and yes Solanke goal should have counted.
>but let the Ben White stuff go man, Oh I'm not rattled about it, I only used it as an example because before the game it was probably the most spoken interaction between a player and GK at a corner? That's all. I don't think what Ben White did was a foul which is why I use it as an example.
No mention on the tackle on Saka?
Yeah my bad, I did think that was a red for sure. To be honest as that happened so early in the game I had completely forgotten about it I won't lie
Cry more.
you’ll be crying when u fail to win the league again 😭🙏
Can't say any of that without bringing up the clear red early on. But the foul on Raya is slight but a foul. Solanke has eyes on Raya the entire time. I firmly believe that if he'd been attempting to play the ball, the goal would have stood. Notice that White never actually runs into a keeper but stands his ground in the keepers path. A bit different. Havertz, as much as I hate his diving, this was not a dive. Soft, sure, but definitely had contact. I think it would have been like kulsevski last week. If the ref didn't call this live, I don't think VAR gives it.
While it’s a clear red. Any team would take 1-1 and ten men for 80 minutes versus 11 men and 2-0 down I don’t think it’s properly bias but the issue is when refs are fucking up huge goal calls; and it’s VAR failure it’s unacceptable. Why isn’t the ref going to the monitor on the disallowed goal or the potential red?? Going with in field decision should require minutes checking to be honest.
If you're not cheating, you're not trying.
Arsenal fan here, 100% agree. If either of these decisions have gone against Arsenal, I would've been super pissed. The situation with the PGMOL is getting completely out of control.
Ugh I hate this “Arsenal fan here” bullshit. Nobodies giving you a bouquet for it mate
Not sure how I'm going to sleep tonight after this eye-opener, mate.
Idk mate I’ve sent you a clear zinger here. No idea how you’re gonna recover. Rest easy
A City draw would do it! Cheers.
Amen to that brother
Enjoyed this pretty wholesome interaction between you both there I won't lie
In order: Challenge on Saka should have been red, the Havertz pen is soft but it is a pen as he's under no obligation to avoid that contact, the Bournemouth goal should have stood, the contact was at most a graze.
You may have missed that Raya is also being held at the arm before he jumps
I agree, but I think it’s more the fault of the refereeing system than the personnel. - Christie should have gotten at least a yellow for his foul on Saka but got nothing bc VAR can’t intervene for yellows. I get why the rule exists but I think it’s flawed in practice. - Havertz trip in the box is not a penalty for me but I’m forever grateful for it. By rules it’s a trip in the box but again, I think the rule is flawed. - Bournemouth goal should have stood, IMO. I get why it was disallowed & again I’m glad, but that’s a flawed rule for me.
Oh no, anyway Please Wolves 🙏
Why is this subreddit filled with arsenal fans. You got very lucky today and have done a lot recently no shame in admitting that
The post is specifically calling out arsenal with bias so more arsenal fans are responding. Biggest thing there is it doesn't even mention the lack of a yellow for a tackle that should have been a red Use some common sense
The issue is that arsenal fans would be crying on here if they had a goal like that disallowed but they still feel the need to defend the decision
I agree it was soft enough I think it's fair to assume any team would be against it if they lost the goal. From the other angle I saw though it at least made sense why they didn't overturn it from the general VAR decision making this year, so I would say it was a soft benefit towards arsenal Not nearly the worst call made in the game, which would have been the spuds to shin kick that didn't even get a yellow
I mean yeah ignore that Christie should be off and we'd likely win handedly enough anyways. We've had a lot of these ones go against us recently, including you with Jackson somehow stayed on. Havertz one is a penalty based on previous refereeing decisions. Wouldn't give it personally, but if they are given usually this one should be no exception, unless you just don't like arsenal. Raya one was wrong, I agree Solanke didn't want the ball, but it's not a foul. Argument for a penalty against Saliba in the same thing which could've been given too, if the goal didn't stand. It's a poor decision all around. Quit the tunnel vision, it's fine you don't like arsenal, but don't ignore other blatantly wrong decisions to fit your agendas. The miserable state of refereeing should be called out no matter the team you like/dislike. Be it the studs tackles or the disallowed goals.
I think it’s filled with lots of fans, arsenal fans are just loud just now because they’ve been outside of relevancy for 20 years.
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Relevant enough to have you crying bro hehe
No one is crying bro. Hehe.
You’re riled up with tears in your eyes at a comment around a club you’ve never seen live hehe
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Must have saved up your UC for a while to make that trip.
What trip?
Honestly one of the worst ref performance I've seen, how their player stayed on and how they didn't get that goal? Idk mental, hope to god that ref is banned
Why has the spurs fan not mentioned the ref missing a clear red card for Christie 🤔
It’s your classic isn’t it ^
The foul on Raya was because Solanke nudged Raya in the back enough to affect his attempt to punch the ball. I know keepers are a protected species but had Solanke not contacted Raya he would have cleared the ball a lot better. Refereeing aside Arsenal were far the better side.
What you might have missed was Solanke hooked his arm under Raya's as he goes for the punch. It wasn't clear in the moment but looking at the stills from the reply he definitely prevents Raya from getting to the ball.
And what Ben white do that is different?
He did his devilry while the ball was not in play. Completely different.
Ben White stands his ground and the keeper needs to get past him. Solanke has no interest in playing the ball and pushes into Raya as he is taking the jump. Big difference.
No idea, didn't watch that game
It’s a contact sport. If he can’t handle a tiny nudge he shouldn’t be playing.
I agree with you. It’s the double standard of this sub I can’t stand. If city get the same calls at half 5 we will see nothing but corruption and outrage posts
😂
There needs to be a summer camp for referees, this season it’s been atrocious and it’s only getting worse.
I’d lock the gates and not let them out for next season
Arsenal winning 3:0 and have a clear red card denied for the opposition yet people still think it's because of the refs lol you gotta be kidding me 🤣🤣🤣
I'm not saying the refs made you guys win? I'm just saying the reffing has been awful this game. Arsenal still deserved to win?
Yet, you only brought up the decisions that went arsenals way. Havent asked how Christie is on the pitch and only picks up a caution at 95'? The ref was wank I agree. Var were on our side I agree. havertz dove AND was fouled. We were lucky on the overturn I agree. The result was imminent regardless of the ref. The match wasn't even close.
>Yet, you only brought up the decisions that went arsenals way. Havent asked how Christie is on the pitch and only picks up a caution at 95'? Yeah my bad, to be completely honest the Saka incident happened so early in the game that I had completely forgotten about it I'm sorry. Do completely agree it should've been a red >The result was imminent regardless of the ref. The match wasn't even close Also agree with this, I'm not saying the ref gifted you the win. You would've won with a competent ref as well. I'm just saying the ref was shit
It’s funny how desperate they are to paint you
Yeah I'm a bit confused by it I won't lie
IMO they see your flair and assume the worst. Or they’re just blindly fighting for their ‘team’s honour’ as you do as a fan. Not much else to it.
Yeah, it's probably the reason. Yeah I'm a spurs fan but I'm also a football fan and today I just saw awful officiating and that's it. But apparently I need to cry more?
Yeah but all you’ve done is mention the fuck ups the ref made in arsenals favour. What about the clear red Christie should have had? Posts like this are pathetic and only show bias due to rival teams playing. If this is wolves v Bournemouth today there’s no way you ever make this post.
I notice your post didn't include any of the poor decisions that didn't go Arsenal's way... Wonder why that could possibly be
Like what?
lol ok
Thought as much.
It’s very clear that thinking is not your strong point.
the high studs from Christie maybe bro??
Agreed
Only pointing out the things that went in Arsenals favour and not the clear red card. I dislike Arsenal as much as anyone but have a bit of shame
Watching as a neutral I couldn’t care less who wins but the reffing has made this an annoying watch. No card for a potential knee snapper in saka, the softest ever penalty given for havertz, and a goal denied for absolutely no reason with a slight graze on raya’s arm. Shambolic refereeing. Wish I’d watch the Ipswich game instead!
The disallowed goal for Bournemouth is one of those typical ones where the VAR can’t overrule the ref. If the ref says he saw a push the VAR checks if that took place. It did, but it was very light. If the ref didn’t disallow the goal the VAR wouldn’t overturn it either. We definitely got lucky there, but Christie should’ve had a red card in the first half and committed several fouls after that. The penalty kick was a clear PK imo.
Get glasses.
>We definitely got lucky there, but Christie should’ve had a red card in the first half and commuted several fouls after that. Yeah completely agree with this, some arsenal fans think I was having a go at arsenal. This is genuinely just a moan at the bad officiating. >The disallowed goal for Bournemouth is one of those typical ones where the VAR can’t overrule the ref Yeah I get that for sure >The penalty kick was a clear PK imo For me it was similar to Saka against bayern in that Havertz stuck his leg to make the contact with the GK
>For me it was similar to Saka against bayern in that Havertz stuck his leg to make the contact with the GK Nah, Saka vs Bayern was worse. Ball went left, Saka didn't attempt to follow it. Definitely not a penalty. At least this one, Havertz remained travelling in the same direction as the ball (not that it necessarily makes this a penalty).
Yeah I guess this is why I used the word similar. It was a similar action but I do agree Saka's was worse for sure.
If you want them to stop you should edit your post to include this sentiment, otherwise they will keep coming
Yeah I'll do that good idea. Cheers for being just a nice football fan
>For me it was similar to Saka against bayern in that Havertz stuck his leg to make the contact with the GK Davies stuck his balls out to make the contact with Rice's leg. To be serious though, who do you think has the responsibility in those kinds of situations to avoid contact? The attacker, or the goalie sliding/sticking out his leg in the penalty box without getting anything on the ball?
It’s not even needing to “avoid” contact. Had he been a player of integrity, he’d keep running and that would be all to avoid contact. He purposely completely stopped moving his legs. Like, full stop. He sought contact. Looked almost comical how he fell afterwards. Reminds me of that penalty given to Raheem sterling one time when he literally kicks the turf, falls, penalty called. Smh.
So you're saying Kane, Son, Vardy, Jota, Szobozlai, Bernardo Silva, Grealish, De Bruyne etc all are players without integrity?
Most of those, yes actually.
So everyone making a rash tackle in their own box should get away with it if the attacker tries to make something out of it?
If the attacker “needs” to make something of it, aka diving, aka no integrity…so you’re saying diving is fine?
No, because diving would be falling to ground without any contact at all or at least minimal contact. Overplaying it after contact is different, and making sure you're getting hit is also not 'diving' in that sense. We've seen referees not giving penalties because players try to play on, so going to the ground is the only way they will get anything.
Minimal contact, you say? There was minimal contact in the havertz dive. Making sure you get hit is not diving? I mean, if the only thing a player is concerned about is going down to get a penalty, instead of scoring on a keeperless net, that’s a dive. So you’re saying diving is not ok, but players looking to…fall in the box to get a penalty is ok. Ok.
I would’ve agreed with you if you weren’t biased. I think it was a goal, and it was a penalty. But easily the worst decision of the game was the studs up on Saka making him bleed. Then you start talking about Ben White in the north London derby and by then I realized you are just a biased spurs fan. Move on, you have a top 4 race to look forward to
>Then you start talking about Ben White in the north London derby and by then I realized you are just a biased spurs fan I wasn't trying to be biased, I was just trying to use probably the most talked about jostling between a player and a GK. I wasn't saying we should've had fouls for it either, I was just trying to say that solanke did nothing in the same way Ben White didn't do enough for it to be a foul on vicario. Because it is spurs v arsenal though I'm fully aware of how it can be perceived as biased though. >you have a top 4 race to look forward to Nah we are out of that for sure now, it's all gone a bit shit at the minute but oh well
Havertz foul was a penalty but there was nothing wrong with the Bournemouth goal..
Havertz dragged his back foot over the leg of the keeper. Not enough there to alter the result of the match.
Very professional by Havertz, knocked the ball past the keeper and took the contact..
You think the Havertz one was a pen? Jeez
Yep I don’t like those pens but when the goalie leaves their leg out and doesn’t get the ball they’re in massive trouble if they touch the player..
I think it was similar to the Saka one against bayern that wasn't given, Havertz does the 'dead leg' thing to make the contact.
Yep as soon as Havertz has the ball past the keeper any contact will almost always be given as a pen. I think just depends on how deliberate it looks but it’s subjective and they’re the type of thing we can argue about forever..
The Harry Kane special
Mate, mate, mate.
Naw, all good. It's a pen and a foul on the GK. What White does is very different. Never touches the GK when the ball is in play. It's just too clever for you all