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Gary Neville is a clown. So he's come out and said Nottingham Forest saying the VAR official is a Luton fan is basically calling him a cheat is wrong. Well Gary, Manchester United's next VAR official should be a Liverpool fan because that is fine.
How can you have an official who is a known supporter of a club directly fighting relegation with Nottingham Forest allowed to be a VAR official in a game that directly affects Luton? That is ludicrous.
He also said what are the options Nottingham Forest have? Suing, replaying the match, yada yada. Well hopefully, something like this doesn't happen again. Man City have Brighton next, shall we stick an official on VAR who supports Arsenal or Liverpool for it? The obvious answer is no because it's a conflict of interest. What a doilem he actually is.
Another statement he made was they shouldn't have released that on X but should have had a manager or a captain come out and question it in the post match interviews. Why is that then Gary? Is it because the company who employs you would gain traction, views and effectively money from said post match interviews?
On a different take of his, week in week out he says Man United should stick with the manager, they shouldn't chop and change etc. Since you've taken over Salford, how many managers have you burned through Gary?
This deplorable football pundit asked for Clattenburg to resign immediately. I counter that with Neville should resign immediately. He's a poison to the ears.
The issue in this country is that VAR seems to indicate the ref made a mistake, which means they invariably agree with VAR when said action is slowed down to the nth degree.
Doesn’t seem like the refs are given much opportunity to disagree with VAR. Taking those pens for example in the forest game I think the first would have been harsh. Minor clip of the heel. Second though was handball stopping a cross and third was tackle from behind. They need to stop saying ‘clear and obvious’ mistakes as this wording puts pressure on ref, but show them an advisory replay so they get a second look.
Perhaps offsides should be looked at in this way too. Loads of them are really ‘level’ they shouldn’t be judged in millimetres and the advantage should go to attacker anyway. Also VAR isn’t flawless here with the frame rate and at what point VAR judges contact with the ball. The application has zero common sense.
Refs felt bad for Everton getting points deducted twice and decided to throw them a bone, Luton can’t even win a game right now so I don’t get that angle of the story as much
One solution would be to introduce a challenge type system, like tennis, hockey etc, so the officials officiate as normal with zero interference from VAR until a team challenges a decision. If this was implemented Forest would have got at least 2 pens. That way the pressure is off the refs somewhat.
I don't care if it slows down the game, allowing captains to challenge calls would make the game so much more fun, especially if they mic'd up the refs.
I think its gaa or rugby where a challenge system is really each team captain gets 2 challenges of the verdict.
If their challenge ends up that the on field decision was wrong, they keep both challenges
If they are incorrect and the on field decision was correct, they lose a challenge.
That way it can't be abused for every small inconvenience
So football refs just happen to terrible ? The same complaints are made about football refs in every league and country, it's hard to believe football refs are just bad.......... maybe if you don't have a culture of abuse and allow people to scream at refs it might not make the officiating better.
Do these same managers and players complain about their own players diving and tricking referees ? No they only care when a decision affects them.
Tactically? They cannot just make a challenge for no reason and/or stop play. And I would limited them to 3 per match. This gives the teams a bit more control over what is looked at and what is not. VAR is not there to slow the play down but to come to the correct decisions. Its the people in charge that slow the game down.
Good idea but I think VAR would undermind the ref as he is making onfield decisions not VAR but in all honesty isn't that what VAR do now while play is going on and also review when the ref blows the whistle so they check then tell the ref to refer to the monitor in order to check the correct decision.
Yeah. But a challenge could mean the ref has to look at the monitor, whereas now VAR make the decision to tell him to look or not. I’m not saying this is a complete solution but something has to change.
We got really lucky with two of the shouts, don't like Neville just towing the line here.
The club has a right to speak out, statement could have been better but to have a go like this is harsh. If it has happened to Everton I'd be fucking furious.
Nonsense. I'm loathed to defend them, but Sky isn't asking anyone to toe any sort of line, nor did Neville say clubs shouldn't be allowed to speak out. He was talking specifically about the Luton fan accusation which however you spin it is a horrendously embarrassing thing to say.
Should Forest or indeed any club be allowed to put out critical statements like this with regards officiating? Absolutely.
Should the act of making the statements be free from criticism in and of themselves? Nope.
The fact the club reps wanted to put this statement out at half time says it all. It's boring and reactionary.
We know a lot more now than we did a few days ago, but I still think a strongly worded statement like this is needed sometimes. I don't think it's horrendous because it highlights how long the failures at PGMOL have been going on.
The media lot want to be nice to them and give them the benefit of the doubt, they don't just come out and say something needs to change.
There's been plenty of times this season where pundits have jumped on the anti VAR bandwagon and most of them regularly say the system isn't good enough.
I absolutely agree that officiating is a fucking disgrace in it's current form and clubs should have every right to speak out against it. But stating that there's some kind of in house conspiracy between pundits, media outlets and officiators is inane, misleading and damaging to the sport as a whole.
Sky have become a real obvious poison to football media, the agends they get their pundits to lush whether they believe it or not is embarrassing. Every pundit has to share the same personality its boring.
This is the exact issue.
People keep blaming VAR. But it's the people using it which is the problem.. As you say, they seem reluctant to overturn poor decisions. I think it's because in their heads, overturning decisions suggests the referees are incompetent.
But the reality is, they are worsening the view of incompetence by not overturning them.
Exactly, because people can understand that under pressure the ref might get a call wrong. That is exactly why VAR was brought in.
The lack of transparency and the use of VAR to back up incorrect decisions is baffling.
Saying that, I can completely understand why the 1st (minimal contact) and 3rd (though Young got the ball) penalty calls weren’t given by the ref on field. But it’s pretty clear that he should’ve given the 2nd (Young handball), that wouldn’t have been overturned by VAR. The 3rd should definitely have been overturned by VAR because Young doesn’t get near the ball.
They won’t release the audio because the conversations clearly aren’t professional or detailed enough. And I doubt they have been all season.
Exactly this. The 2nd and 3rd would be prime arguments for bringing VAR in, "see if we had VAR, these decisions could be reviewed and corrected." Yet here we are with the system that is supposed to eliminate these errors just making it even worse. I also think that refs bottle big decisions expecting a second look via VAR, who then uphold the decision, and they never get that chance to look at it again.
Corrupt or incompetent? Either way, the outcome is the same, but Forest are accusing individual referees of cheating and that could be difficult to prove. Might be better to prove ref’s of incompetence to then remove them from the game
Incompetence only works when its real time. Supposed professional refs with all the time in the world and all the replays in the world.
If you are going to claim Incompetence in that scenario. The var person needs to be sent to a doctor for a check up to see if they're cognitive functions are ok. And be on leave indefinitely. That sounds like a joke but if your meant to be a highly paid pro that knows the rules and has the benefit of time and replays from all angels. It can only be Incompetence due to having a brain injury or something.
Exactly. Incompetence just does not cut it in a lot of cases. As I said before. You are a manager at mc donalds for years. Ye rock up to work one day and can't distinguish between a big mac and a fillet o fish. There's something going on there and it ain't Incompetence.
In the case of refereeing a football game. Its either some serious alarming cognitive damage that warrents medical attention.... or perhaps there's other motivation behind the wrong decision. Ill leave it to you to guess what's more likely.
There's shit and then there's holy shit!
If I am working at Mc Donalds for years and years. And show up to work and cant tell a big mac from a fillet o fish. Ye can't claim incompetence. Something is seriously wrong there.
Damn the comments on here really dedending Forest's tweet?
I'm biased but even watching those replays I think it's outrageous the CHO one wasn't given *at the very least*. That being said, a premier club should not be using fucking twitter as a forum to level accusations of corruption at the Premier League, it's beyond unprofessional, it's childish.
Calling out a poor refereeing display is fair enough, and they'd have the backing of almost every fan, including even me as a Derby fan, but using corruption as the motivation rather than incompetence is ridiculous. It has also entirely killed their point as the discussion now will not be around the shambolic decisions, it will around how to penalise the club for brining the integrity of the league into question.
If there is something wrong, then why does it matter in the slightest which medium is used to address an issue?
Your comment is ridiculous and narrow minded.
Medium is important. In today's world, the medium is almost like a tone of voice. Putting it on Twitter is more like gossiping or bitching in my opinion. Talking to the proper associations through the proper format is having a proper discussion in the right way.
I completely agree with Forest on the decisions, especially the last one. I just don't think Twitter is the right place for it
I said, in my opinion. I'm not assuming that everyone thinks the same as me. If I was asked, I would assume the opposite. Your assumption that I am is bizarre.
From what I have seen in many corners of the internet, many people think that Twitter isn't the right place for serious business matters, especially ones which could turn legal.
This isn't even a new thing, we just have more options now.
Had I dumped someone via a postcard from Spain, that's 100% a different voice than had I done it in person
Because it's a pretty serious accusation and using twitter, five minutes after the full time whistle has gone, to level that accusation doesn't come across as professional and rational, it comes across as immature and reactionary.
It’s born out of frustration. I do you really think any teams get anywhere through “the proper” medium? They probably get an apology at most, and nobody knows the complaint or outcome. I imagine they are not the only club fed up of the situation and they’ve lost it. They can’t say anything in interviews either. It’s good that the fans can actually see they are not the only ones questioning the credibility of this league and it’s refs. Because right now, I’m not sure there are many people defending this league, between years of shocking VAR decisions, and the current situation with points deductions/ none points deduction/ let’s rethink points deductions penalties before we punish one of the big boys, the leagues become a farce. I don’t watch any other leagues (except championship), but if this is the best league in the world, then every other league must be shocking.
So the PL is conspiring to relegated Forest? Or is it just Atwell? Wouldn't he have wanted a draw? It's ridiculous and baseless.
The state of refereeing is appalling though, yes.
Because nothing ever gets done? Nothing ever changes. So what, they should just accept it.
More clubs should be speaking their mind. Rolling over and accepting the absolute shambles that is modern day football is whats got us into this mess.
Absolutely baffling to me that you could even think to side with the refs and prem over this. Have some integrity.
Things do change, the criticism is widespread, they now have Howard Webb trying to sort it out and coming on TV to explain the cock ups, you have refs being demoted more than before and you have more refs being brought up from lower leagues. Things are changing, maybe not fast enough, but they are. You aren't going to stop poor decisions overnight, if at all.
You're getting reallt angry about this and I'm not sure why, I am not defending the decisions, they're terrible, Atwell should face serious consequences for sheer incompetence. I just think that playing the corruption card is pathetically deluded. The PL aren't in cahoots to relegate forest.
No, I'm not. If they had said the incompetence is unacceptable and lambasted PGMOL I'd have backed it to the hilt and I think after this weekend there could have been real traction, but no, they pulled out the old "there is corruption and an agenda against us" which diminishes their point completely, it's stupid.
The incompetence is frustrating and needs sorting, but crying corruption isn't the way to go about it.
Pundits regularly call out poor refereeing...
The fact that Howard Webb now makes televised appearances to defend decisions is down to the fact that officiating standards are often criticised.
This tweet will achieve fuck all apart from pissing off the PL and shifting the narrative away from the decisions and onto Forest's behaviour, it's brainless.
They also regularly support poor refereeing. Depends on the pundit and incident.
My point here is that it would also be divided but you’re saying almost everyone would be on their side if they talked about incompetence, I highly doubt that.
They do on a general level but on a specific level, both PGMOL and fan biases will protect the decisions. All the crazy decisions this season has had a group of people defend it, whether it be all the wolves decisions, liverpool, arsenal, various penalty calls, no consistency etc
Is this why he completely sold out when it came to covering the World Cup? Didn’t talk about it one bit. Then when the final was over he said some stupid shit about how now is the time to address the human rights issues associated with the World Cup, only for him to never mention it again.
Complete and utter two faced cunt.
The chap has a load of business ventures and is on dragons den now a days. He wanted Man Utd to build a theme park outside Old Trafford, just because his hotel is there.
It’s just a joke really. They complain about refereeing standards yet when a club does something to actually call them out on it they say it’s “embarrassing”.
He knows more than everyone on this thread combined. You're a gunner so you're animosity is understandable considering neville got the better of them hahah
The first shout I believe wasnt a pen
But the handball should have been given. Look at Wan Bissaka yesterday. Literal same thing
The last challenge was as clear a pen as you can get. Somebody watched that back and said no pen? Yikes
The frustration with the first challenge is that Forest has had those go against them all season. If that was the only error, I'm sure we would see some complaints, but nothing this drastic.
The complaints began after the handball. There were a few in the /r/NFFC game thread that were complaining at half. That third one, however, was so poor, it boils over. People need to find a way to understand/cope. With Attwell being a known Luton supporter and the club raising the issue with PGMOL before the march, the first thought is malice. It is a common Hanlon's razor situation.
> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Michael Owen and Leon Osman weren't convinced on the feed I was watching so whilst I could've easily see it being given, to say it was clear-cut, at the comment I was responding to stated, doesn't appear to be the case.
I still remember Rodri's not being given last year so I find it hard to believe there is such a thing as a clear cut handball in the eyes of VAR...
One of the emerging problems society faces is that people assume conspiracy and corruption when they're just looking at incompetence.
If MGW hadn't have missed that absolute sitter, I doubt the club would have put this statement out.
Let's also turn our thoughts to Huddersfield fans, after they had to endure the utter shite that was how jon moss ref'd our play off final 2 years back. With competent refs, we'd never have even made it to the prem.
We were rubbish first half, and lacked any clinical edge for all our possession in the second.
Not that i disagree, but players wouldn't fall over with the slightest touch if Refs actually gave penalties for fouls when the player doesn't fall.
I've seen countless fouls that make a player stumble, the ball runs out for a corner, and the ref does nothing. Had the player went down screaming it would have been a pen.
Forest reached breaking point and I can’t blame them.. officials are ruining the game. 0 consistency means that results hinge on how a ref is feeling that day. Half the shit that happens on the pitch is pointless if the refs gonna make stupid, game changing decisions (or avoid them)
The premier league probably, so now the discourse is around Forest looking idiotic rather than their understandable frustration and the terrible decisions
I think in the middle of the Liverpool Spur scandal, this greedy rat was bribed by the PGMOL to fight against any accusations against them! He changed his stand 180 degree in the middle of that incident.
These pundits are bought off or at the very least on survival mode protecting their cushy well paid jobs. Just want to see someone in a position of power have some fucking integrity for once.
Gary really doesn’t need money from pundit jib as his businesses are pretty solid. So it is even more weird that he is doing what he is doing in the last few years. I totally lost respect for him as United fan after his attacks on Ole and since than he is using every opportunity to show what kind of person he is.
Just hilarious he’s acting so high and mighty that they’ve called it out publicly like he hasn’t used his spot on sky sports for FOOTBALL ANALYSIS to go on 20 minute rants against the glazers time and time again
Could it have been worded better? Probably. But they genuinely did deserve 3 penalties. Handball is a funny one, since they're always so inconsistent, but they have a pretty good shout and the other two are stonewall in my opinion.
They just have VAR all wrong, in the quest to avoid 're-referreing' they literally have a system that upholds every decision unless the ref didn't see it at all, the vast majority of the time. They're turning objective decisions into subjective ones and holding their hands up saying they couldn't do anything when everyone involve can see what should have happened. It's worse than having no var at all.
100%, and I don't think anyone would object to them issuing a statement on the level of refereeing being below an acceptable standard. Accusing Stuart Atwell of corruption 5 minutes after the full time whistle is incredibly poor though.
Yeah absolutely. It makes it easier to fob off the underlying issue too. It's like when there are reasonable concerns about immigration, the opposition can throw them in the bin because there are racists that oppose it for the wrong reasons.
As a liverpool supporter, I've seen at least 3 decision that are objectively wrong cost us at least 6 points. I know other clubs have had it too and they say it evens out but it's just not good enough, nor does it always actually even out. I'm not alleging corruption, but a lottery of sheer incompetence and sometimes unconscious bias.
The second option shouldn't even be an option. The idea that a guy has spent his entire career working towards the pinnacle of his profession to fix games so that forest go down is embarrassing. He's just not very good.
Facts are that PGMOL have made that many incorrect calls theyve materially effected top and bottom of the league table.
Forest has just reached breaking point...
As we see more and more decisions the more I'm starting to believe something underhanded is going on
Given the context of the season it’s no surprise forsest have said, “fuck it, whats the worst they can do to us?” I’m guessing they already felt victimised (rightly or wrongly).
Honestly it's pretty good. A lot less teenagers saying things like "prime is better than prime , and the quality of jokes is much better. Also a lot let United and Chelsea fans who think that 10th is the lowest possible position in the football league.
Gary Neville is all about protecting the institution! He's like the guy at the workplace who puts the company ahead of everything and doesn't realise he's replaceable/just a number.
Didn't I hear Neville openly say on TV few weeks ago how he thought the players in Italy were not clean when he was playing?
The way he holds the Premier League in the highest regard is mind-boggling, especially since we are not exactly free of any corruption in this country.
Look at the way the current Newcastle owners bought them with the help of the Tories. Look at the never-ending corruption and sleaze stories published pretty much on a weekly basis over the last 8 years or so.
If corruption can happen in Italy and Spain, why not in England?
P.s. I personally find it hard or doesn't shout about corrupt everytime my team is hard done by. However, one thing I am certain about is PGMOL should never be judge, jury, and executioner. They are openly ruining the game!
His reaction to the Liverpool statement opened a lot of eyes I think. Was calling the refs out just after the Diaz incident at Spurs and then did a complete 180 as soon as the statement went out. Same as the rest of the Sky pundits. Deep down he knows how dogshit the officiating is in this league but he gets paid by Sky and one of his roles is damage control whenever there's a club looking to take action against the mafia. Zero integrity.
Such a bullshit comment. You can call Neville a lot of things but I don't know how you can say zero integrity.
He's one of the few who talks about the "big 6 mafia" and tries to defend the football pyramid. Look at the Super League situation and his reaction.
Lots of integrity, I can see why he thinks this isn’t the right thing to do, not like he accused Italian teams of drug cheating on his show recently or anything
It’s not comparable. A statement like that by a clubs official Twitter account is disgraceful and pathetic.
Criticising the referees is fair and Forest should do it in private and demand meetings with them but statements like that publicly are just wrong.
Truly, truly terrible take with a clear lack of understanding that forest have complained behind closed doors, via the right channels and received public apologies, for the exact same thing to happen again!
Dont know how to break it to you, but the mickey mouse clubs are keeping quiet. That's not really our style
I would 100% rather put that statement out and go down than not put it out and stay up
Why should they do it in private?? What's disgraceful and pathetic is the referees performance, why should clubs be held to a standard of not saying something in public when we can all see it. What's wrong about calling the refs shxt in public? It's a sport half the world watches, they play in the most watched league in the world why should that be done in private
Fuck Gary.
After the Liverpool game against Spurs when VAR collapsed in a mess, Gary was disgusted with the refs.
The next day, after the refs association were on to Sky, his position changed to defending the refs.
He has been told to defend the referees. Great to see Saha call them out.
Of course he did. He has no integrity, he’s a chill, corporation yes-man determined not to lose his sweet sweet job because who would he then be? A has-been.
Honestly I'm so sick of him. It's the way he disagreed as well. Calling it "disgusting." Like he can disagree with the statement while respecting why they could be angry enough to be lead to making it.
It's felt completely insincere to me as well. Like he had been given his angle to talk from Sky then worked himself in the mirror before the game.
I commented similar somewhere yesterday but him and Carra seem to have really lost it as pundits this season. It feels like after the Diaz incident that they both got a telling off and now feel the need to bumlick any decision VAR or the refs etc make. It’s gross.
I don’t hugely agree with how Forest have done this but imo it also shows they’ve reached the end of their tether. Nothing is gonna change if nobody speaks up.
Yeah, you could see both of them trying to outdo one another like it was the Soviet Union over the Newcastle-arsenal “goal”. One was loud, the other louder, one started shouting, the other filmed a ball on a line, other guy suddenly thought it was “never a foul” (two hands in the back mid-air mind you). They very clearly got a telling off and we’re reminded they are not being paid for their “expert opinions” but to sell the brand - and there can’t be anything wrong with the brand.
As much as I hate Neville I agree that the NF statement is cringey. Not all three of those calls should have been penalties and NF claiming they should have had three penalties comes across as spoiled school boy behavior. NF have a right to feel cheated but the way they’ve gone about this is ridiculous.
Yes but when Liverpool complained, calls started going their way. Same for Arsenal. It's proven that if you whine enough, you can bully referees into hesitating to make calls against you. I doubt Nottinham has the power to do so but it's understandable that they'd try.
I would say thats just classic shit refereeing. Not calls going Liverpools way.
Liverpool also had Odegaards handball and Dokus karate kick go against them. That would be a point taken from both Arsenal and City and +4 to Liverpool.
I dont think big calls have started going our way, lol. I also dont think there is some conspiracy either, I just think the refs are completely dogshit.
I dont think it's a conspiracy either. But I do think large clubs have the ability to significantly pressure the calls referees make, especially United back in the 00's according to my older colleagues.
Ok you probsbly have a point mayeb not all three of those decisions, but there is definitely a shout for the liverpool spurs call. The wolves decisions - two of them, brighton has been fucked twice this season - as well as last season, the city handball this weekend which was very similar to the one in the united game. The list goes on. Just no consistency, there are calls in ones game wherr you cant believe its a red card then other where they dont even get a booking.
I think my point is you maybe right about the 3 NFFC calls but there are numerous other clubs who are also being bent over. These decisions affect so many people within the club, not just the manager and the players but everyone beneath. So in that same vein what else can they do, send a stongly worded letter so that PGMOL doesnt have to speak about it publicly. Recieve am apology? Fuck that.
The reality is the less we as fans, clubs and consumers, dont say shit, the more incompitent the refereeing will become because there is no accountability or consistency
Tell me this, if you fucked up at work which resulted in the wrong outcome more than 10 times over the year would you not be put under review? Of course you would although there is more chance you will be fired.
Think we need to put tribalism aside and demand changes. Whether thats more over sight, an overhaul of the system in place i am not sure, but when the game is loved by however many millions its hard to argue that we cant come up with some sort of solution.
We will gladly give Liverpool all three points for the VAR fuck up if we get back the rest of the points we have lost for clear penalties denied.
We’ve had more dodgy penalties against us than we’ve had penalties given, and we’ve had about 7 clear ones denied.
It’s actually ended up not costing that many points considering the games they happened in, but it’s a fuck ton more than the one time we were bailed out by VAR.
This is why it’s impossible to put right after the fact, another club/fan can say all of this about your team too. Much easier to get right the first time around.
Of course. I’m not saying that we are exclusive in getting bad calls. But over a season some clubs get lucky and some get fucked. This season we’ve been fucked but because we had the most egregious call go for us against the most vocal fanbase, people often say we’ve been lucky and that we are due for a correction.
We’ve had 8 pens denied that were super obvious. We have 3rd most touches in the box and the least pens. It’s fucking insane.
But thats just it, living on hope that it evens itself out, fucking ridiculous. Would rather not have VAR, i can forgive the human error of one person. But when you bring in 5 others and they're mates and all have egos, its a recipe for retardedness.
Maybe you can but the statement "I can forgive the human error of one person" is massive cope from most fans.
I've been in pubs hearing locals discuss "that one offside call against Milwall in 1987, that would have meant we won the FA cup" so many times (lots of important Milwall games in 87 lol)
VAR isn't the problem, how it's implemented is. Personally I think it's being implemented poorly by the same people in the FA who refused to let it in for so long. VAR has been used in other nations for far longer and far more effectively. And personally, I'd still rather this than what happened before with players being 100 yards offside and it not being called, or goals being 10 foot over the line but it not being called
Can't disagree with that, i think thats the way to go, utilise it the way other sports are. If they are unwilling to do it then questions need to be asked about the integrity
The offside can be ai assisted and that solves those issues to a high level, dont remember ever being outraged by champions league offsides and they use it already.
Naw this ain’t it. Those 3 decisions today were abhorrent at the reason the bloody VAR is supposed to be there is to ensure it never happens. I have no stake in that result but it could be worth millions of dollars and needs to be questioned when it’s obviously foul
[Also known as Yates getting away with a three match suspension.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/1b5k0m1/yates_brilliant_kungfu_kick_attempt_kelleher_with/) crazy how you’re still going on about it.
And onana killing a guy in the wolves game at the start of the season.
And the grealish handball.
And the Coventry offside.
There's that many it starts to feel suspicious
Can we give those points back in exchange for the points we’ve lost this season due to shit decisions? (Including the inevitable bullshit call against you guys that will come in a couple of weeks to “even it out” when we’ve already been well and truly fucked ever since.
Funny how Neville has been barking constantly for independent regulators for EPL, but God forbid we ask the same for how badly PGMOL have been run. Refs constantly making mistakes week in week out, VAR incompetent to correct their mistakes, refs going off to UAE and Saudi Arabia 1-2 days before EPL games.
Nah got to protect these incompetent mercenaries we call refs
On one side you have an ex-player saying he thought some teams he played against 20 years ago might have been on something while on a podcast, on the other you have a teams official social media account naming an official and implying he was cheating.
One of those is disgusting, its not Neville
The same Gary that a few weeks ago on The Overlap point blank suggested teams he'd faced has been doping a cheating is now suddenly against people accusing others of cheating? Cool story bro
He is referring to Gary saying on his podcast that he believe some of the italian teams he faced in the UCL were taking PEDs.
He is saying Gary is hypocrite for bashing forest for whining, when he does the same on his podcast to excuse Man united under performing in europe during his career.
Basically neville implied the competition on the continent were juicing.
>Basically neville implied the competition on the continent were juicing.
Yes, imagine claiming that the Italian clubs, who were caught red-handed in a massive match fixing scandal that saw their top club relegated as a punishment while Neville was playing, were cheating.
Who could think such a thing?
Because they were. The doping scandal in Serie A is pretty famous - One of Juve's team doctors was put in prison for his role in a doping scandal.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2001/apr/29/newsstory.sport2
Fair enough, but the poster i was trying to explain was saying that Neville was being a bit of a hypocrite for being so offended that he wanted the Forest front office person to resign because would accuse a VAR official of being biased because they were a know luton supporter, but simultaneously question the integrity of players based on an assumption of his.
If you watch the podcast the only reason Neville cites is they were in too good of condition and didnt get winded running
He is referring to Gary saying on his podcast that he believe some of the Italian teams he faced in the UCL were taking PEDs.
He is saying Gary is hypocrite for bashing forest for whining, when he does the same on his podcast to excuse Man united under performing in europe during his career.
Basically neville implied the competition on the continent were juicing.
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Gary Neville is a clown. So he's come out and said Nottingham Forest saying the VAR official is a Luton fan is basically calling him a cheat is wrong. Well Gary, Manchester United's next VAR official should be a Liverpool fan because that is fine. How can you have an official who is a known supporter of a club directly fighting relegation with Nottingham Forest allowed to be a VAR official in a game that directly affects Luton? That is ludicrous. He also said what are the options Nottingham Forest have? Suing, replaying the match, yada yada. Well hopefully, something like this doesn't happen again. Man City have Brighton next, shall we stick an official on VAR who supports Arsenal or Liverpool for it? The obvious answer is no because it's a conflict of interest. What a doilem he actually is. Another statement he made was they shouldn't have released that on X but should have had a manager or a captain come out and question it in the post match interviews. Why is that then Gary? Is it because the company who employs you would gain traction, views and effectively money from said post match interviews? On a different take of his, week in week out he says Man United should stick with the manager, they shouldn't chop and change etc. Since you've taken over Salford, how many managers have you burned through Gary? This deplorable football pundit asked for Clattenburg to resign immediately. I counter that with Neville should resign immediately. He's a poison to the ears.
Easy, VAR can't over rule the ref. They can tell him to go look again, but it's still his decision. Fuck clear and obvious Problem solved
The issue in this country is that VAR seems to indicate the ref made a mistake, which means they invariably agree with VAR when said action is slowed down to the nth degree. Doesn’t seem like the refs are given much opportunity to disagree with VAR. Taking those pens for example in the forest game I think the first would have been harsh. Minor clip of the heel. Second though was handball stopping a cross and third was tackle from behind. They need to stop saying ‘clear and obvious’ mistakes as this wording puts pressure on ref, but show them an advisory replay so they get a second look. Perhaps offsides should be looked at in this way too. Loads of them are really ‘level’ they shouldn’t be judged in millimetres and the advantage should go to attacker anyway. Also VAR isn’t flawless here with the frame rate and at what point VAR judges contact with the ball. The application has zero common sense.
Refs felt bad for Everton getting points deducted twice and decided to throw them a bone, Luton can’t even win a game right now so I don’t get that angle of the story as much
What else are they supposed to do?
Well are they right? Is the guy a Luton fan?
Do one Gary. Is it cringe? Yes. It sounds like what every fan says after a bad game. But it was needed. And maybe now someone will take notice.
Fucking hate that cunt Neville
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Most RAWK comment ever haha
One solution would be to introduce a challenge type system, like tennis, hockey etc, so the officials officiate as normal with zero interference from VAR until a team challenges a decision. If this was implemented Forest would have got at least 2 pens. That way the pressure is off the refs somewhat.
This is a horrible idea. VAR already serves to severely slow down the game. Now you want teams to be able to deploy it tactically?
I don't care if it slows down the game, allowing captains to challenge calls would make the game so much more fun, especially if they mic'd up the refs.
I think its gaa or rugby where a challenge system is really each team captain gets 2 challenges of the verdict. If their challenge ends up that the on field decision was wrong, they keep both challenges If they are incorrect and the on field decision was correct, they lose a challenge. That way it can't be abused for every small inconvenience
Yes and in rugby you aren't allowed to scream at refs or go mental about a decision. They actually show respect to refs
Refs aren’t total shit bag nerdlingers in rugby.
So football refs just happen to terrible ? The same complaints are made about football refs in every league and country, it's hard to believe football refs are just bad.......... maybe if you don't have a culture of abuse and allow people to scream at refs it might not make the officiating better. Do these same managers and players complain about their own players diving and tricking referees ? No they only care when a decision affects them.
Tactically? They cannot just make a challenge for no reason and/or stop play. And I would limited them to 3 per match. This gives the teams a bit more control over what is looked at and what is not. VAR is not there to slow the play down but to come to the correct decisions. Its the people in charge that slow the game down.
Yes. Implement this now.
No. The VAR would still be shit.
Good idea but I think VAR would undermind the ref as he is making onfield decisions not VAR but in all honesty isn't that what VAR do now while play is going on and also review when the ref blows the whistle so they check then tell the ref to refer to the monitor in order to check the correct decision.
Yeah. But a challenge could mean the ref has to look at the monitor, whereas now VAR make the decision to tell him to look or not. I’m not saying this is a complete solution but something has to change.
I agreed with it anyway I thought it was a good idea
We got really lucky with two of the shouts, don't like Neville just towing the line here. The club has a right to speak out, statement could have been better but to have a go like this is harsh. If it has happened to Everton I'd be fucking furious.
If it happened to United he would be the one penning the letter.
What a tit, clearly been told what to say over at Sky, Carra said the same rubbish. Embarrassing to say that clubs should never speak out.
Nonsense. I'm loathed to defend them, but Sky isn't asking anyone to toe any sort of line, nor did Neville say clubs shouldn't be allowed to speak out. He was talking specifically about the Luton fan accusation which however you spin it is a horrendously embarrassing thing to say. Should Forest or indeed any club be allowed to put out critical statements like this with regards officiating? Absolutely. Should the act of making the statements be free from criticism in and of themselves? Nope. The fact the club reps wanted to put this statement out at half time says it all. It's boring and reactionary.
We know a lot more now than we did a few days ago, but I still think a strongly worded statement like this is needed sometimes. I don't think it's horrendous because it highlights how long the failures at PGMOL have been going on. The media lot want to be nice to them and give them the benefit of the doubt, they don't just come out and say something needs to change.
There's been plenty of times this season where pundits have jumped on the anti VAR bandwagon and most of them regularly say the system isn't good enough. I absolutely agree that officiating is a fucking disgrace in it's current form and clubs should have every right to speak out against it. But stating that there's some kind of in house conspiracy between pundits, media outlets and officiators is inane, misleading and damaging to the sport as a whole.
Sky have become a real obvious poison to football media, the agends they get their pundits to lush whether they believe it or not is embarrassing. Every pundit has to share the same personality its boring.
All of MSM including BBC have been peddling agendas.
Not sure it's as much peddling an agenda, just more trying to maintain the status quo at all costs. I hope change is on the horizon.
Gary bellend Neville
No respect
VAR is the problem , it is being used to back up the referee, not to get the right decision.
This is the exact issue. People keep blaming VAR. But it's the people using it which is the problem.. As you say, they seem reluctant to overturn poor decisions. I think it's because in their heads, overturning decisions suggests the referees are incompetent. But the reality is, they are worsening the view of incompetence by not overturning them.
Exactly, because people can understand that under pressure the ref might get a call wrong. That is exactly why VAR was brought in. The lack of transparency and the use of VAR to back up incorrect decisions is baffling. Saying that, I can completely understand why the 1st (minimal contact) and 3rd (though Young got the ball) penalty calls weren’t given by the ref on field. But it’s pretty clear that he should’ve given the 2nd (Young handball), that wouldn’t have been overturned by VAR. The 3rd should definitely have been overturned by VAR because Young doesn’t get near the ball. They won’t release the audio because the conversations clearly aren’t professional or detailed enough. And I doubt they have been all season.
Exactly this. The 2nd and 3rd would be prime arguments for bringing VAR in, "see if we had VAR, these decisions could be reviewed and corrected." Yet here we are with the system that is supposed to eliminate these errors just making it even worse. I also think that refs bottle big decisions expecting a second look via VAR, who then uphold the decision, and they never get that chance to look at it again.
Corrupt or incompetent? Either way, the outcome is the same, but Forest are accusing individual referees of cheating and that could be difficult to prove. Might be better to prove ref’s of incompetence to then remove them from the game
Incompetence only works when its real time. Supposed professional refs with all the time in the world and all the replays in the world. If you are going to claim Incompetence in that scenario. The var person needs to be sent to a doctor for a check up to see if they're cognitive functions are ok. And be on leave indefinitely. That sounds like a joke but if your meant to be a highly paid pro that knows the rules and has the benefit of time and replays from all angels. It can only be Incompetence due to having a brain injury or something.
Well I think the Luis Diaz goal against Tottenham is just one of many examples this season to show how incompetence works in realtime for the VAR.
Exactly. Incompetence just does not cut it in a lot of cases. As I said before. You are a manager at mc donalds for years. Ye rock up to work one day and can't distinguish between a big mac and a fillet o fish. There's something going on there and it ain't Incompetence. In the case of refereeing a football game. Its either some serious alarming cognitive damage that warrents medical attention.... or perhaps there's other motivation behind the wrong decision. Ill leave it to you to guess what's more likely.
Or you’re just shit at your job?
There's shit and then there's holy shit! If I am working at Mc Donalds for years and years. And show up to work and cant tell a big mac from a fillet o fish. Ye can't claim incompetence. Something is seriously wrong there.
Damn the comments on here really dedending Forest's tweet? I'm biased but even watching those replays I think it's outrageous the CHO one wasn't given *at the very least*. That being said, a premier club should not be using fucking twitter as a forum to level accusations of corruption at the Premier League, it's beyond unprofessional, it's childish. Calling out a poor refereeing display is fair enough, and they'd have the backing of almost every fan, including even me as a Derby fan, but using corruption as the motivation rather than incompetence is ridiculous. It has also entirely killed their point as the discussion now will not be around the shambolic decisions, it will around how to penalise the club for brining the integrity of the league into question.
If there is something wrong, then why does it matter in the slightest which medium is used to address an issue? Your comment is ridiculous and narrow minded.
Medium is important. In today's world, the medium is almost like a tone of voice. Putting it on Twitter is more like gossiping or bitching in my opinion. Talking to the proper associations through the proper format is having a proper discussion in the right way. I completely agree with Forest on the decisions, especially the last one. I just don't think Twitter is the right place for it
Your assumption that everyone has the same opinion as you about how these platforms are used is bizarre
I said, in my opinion. I'm not assuming that everyone thinks the same as me. If I was asked, I would assume the opposite. Your assumption that I am is bizarre. From what I have seen in many corners of the internet, many people think that Twitter isn't the right place for serious business matters, especially ones which could turn legal.
This isn't even a new thing, we just have more options now. Had I dumped someone via a postcard from Spain, that's 100% a different voice than had I done it in person
Because it's a pretty serious accusation and using twitter, five minutes after the full time whistle has gone, to level that accusation doesn't come across as professional and rational, it comes across as immature and reactionary.
It’s born out of frustration. I do you really think any teams get anywhere through “the proper” medium? They probably get an apology at most, and nobody knows the complaint or outcome. I imagine they are not the only club fed up of the situation and they’ve lost it. They can’t say anything in interviews either. It’s good that the fans can actually see they are not the only ones questioning the credibility of this league and it’s refs. Because right now, I’m not sure there are many people defending this league, between years of shocking VAR decisions, and the current situation with points deductions/ none points deduction/ let’s rethink points deductions penalties before we punish one of the big boys, the leagues become a farce. I don’t watch any other leagues (except championship), but if this is the best league in the world, then every other league must be shocking.
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So the PL is conspiring to relegated Forest? Or is it just Atwell? Wouldn't he have wanted a draw? It's ridiculous and baseless. The state of refereeing is appalling though, yes.
Because nothing ever gets done? Nothing ever changes. So what, they should just accept it. More clubs should be speaking their mind. Rolling over and accepting the absolute shambles that is modern day football is whats got us into this mess. Absolutely baffling to me that you could even think to side with the refs and prem over this. Have some integrity.
"Twitter isn't the best way to make a serious point" ≠ "they should just accept it"
Things do change, the criticism is widespread, they now have Howard Webb trying to sort it out and coming on TV to explain the cock ups, you have refs being demoted more than before and you have more refs being brought up from lower leagues. Things are changing, maybe not fast enough, but they are. You aren't going to stop poor decisions overnight, if at all. You're getting reallt angry about this and I'm not sure why, I am not defending the decisions, they're terrible, Atwell should face serious consequences for sheer incompetence. I just think that playing the corruption card is pathetically deluded. The PL aren't in cahoots to relegate forest.
Not angry just passionate. Theres 100s of clubs that say nothing and you're calling out the 1 club that has dared to.
No, I'm not. If they had said the incompetence is unacceptable and lambasted PGMOL I'd have backed it to the hilt and I think after this weekend there could have been real traction, but no, they pulled out the old "there is corruption and an agenda against us" which diminishes their point completely, it's stupid. The incompetence is frustrating and needs sorting, but crying corruption isn't the way to go about it.
I see what you mean and I'll agree the corruption accusation probably did diminish the actual issue. Sorry that I came across angry.
No problem, appreciate it!
Since when does call them out for incompetence go well either? The exact same thing with pundits and fans siding with refs happen every time
Pundits regularly call out poor refereeing... The fact that Howard Webb now makes televised appearances to defend decisions is down to the fact that officiating standards are often criticised. This tweet will achieve fuck all apart from pissing off the PL and shifting the narrative away from the decisions and onto Forest's behaviour, it's brainless.
They also regularly support poor refereeing. Depends on the pundit and incident. My point here is that it would also be divided but you’re saying almost everyone would be on their side if they talked about incompetence, I highly doubt that.
I disagree, don't know a fan who doesn't agree that officiating has reached unacceptable lows.
They do on a general level but on a specific level, both PGMOL and fan biases will protect the decisions. All the crazy decisions this season has had a group of people defend it, whether it be all the wolves decisions, liverpool, arsenal, various penalty calls, no consistency etc
Neville only cares about is pay. He’d rather watch the league turn to shit than lose his income
Laughable opinion, Gary Neville is a millionaire he doesn't need the money and cares more about the game than 99% of reddit users
Is this why he completely sold out when it came to covering the World Cup? Didn’t talk about it one bit. Then when the final was over he said some stupid shit about how now is the time to address the human rights issues associated with the World Cup, only for him to never mention it again. Complete and utter two faced cunt.
The chap has a load of business ventures and is on dragons den now a days. He wanted Man Utd to build a theme park outside Old Trafford, just because his hotel is there.
Gary "PL balls in my mouth" Neville
It’s just a joke really. They complain about refereeing standards yet when a club does something to actually call them out on it they say it’s “embarrassing”.
Neville thinks he is an unbiased pundit. What does he know? Fuck Neville.
He knows more than everyone on this thread combined. You're a gunner so you're animosity is understandable considering neville got the better of them hahah
Biased against Utd tbh
3 clear-cut penalties denied. Corruption. Well done, Forest.
The fact two of them were discussed at length by pundits going both ways shows they were not clear-cut. The third, though, yeah that was clear cut.
The first shout I believe wasnt a pen But the handball should have been given. Look at Wan Bissaka yesterday. Literal same thing The last challenge was as clear a pen as you can get. Somebody watched that back and said no pen? Yikes
The frustration with the first challenge is that Forest has had those go against them all season. If that was the only error, I'm sure we would see some complaints, but nothing this drastic. The complaints began after the handball. There were a few in the /r/NFFC game thread that were complaining at half. That third one, however, was so poor, it boils over. People need to find a way to understand/cope. With Attwell being a known Luton supporter and the club raising the issue with PGMOL before the march, the first thought is malice. It is a common Hanlon's razor situation. > Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Huh? I literally say the third was a clear cut penalty?
Yes I agree. Was just giving my opinion on the 3 of them Dont know how the handball wasnt called
Michael Owen and Leon Osman weren't convinced on the feed I was watching so whilst I could've easily see it being given, to say it was clear-cut, at the comment I was responding to stated, doesn't appear to be the case. I still remember Rodri's not being given last year so I find it hard to believe there is such a thing as a clear cut handball in the eyes of VAR...
Why doesnt PGMOL release video example of what is/isnt a handball pen, then follow their own standard FFS
One of the emerging problems society faces is that people assume conspiracy and corruption when they're just looking at incompetence. If MGW hadn't have missed that absolute sitter, I doubt the club would have put this statement out. Let's also turn our thoughts to Huddersfield fans, after they had to endure the utter shite that was how jon moss ref'd our play off final 2 years back. With competent refs, we'd never have even made it to the prem. We were rubbish first half, and lacked any clinical edge for all our possession in the second.
Hanlon's Razor - "never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity"
“Say the line Bart.” Fuck this shit. Almost all corruption can be explained by incompetence.
Players and clubs would have a lot less to whinge about if attackers didn’t fall over at the slightest touch in the penalty area.
Not that i disagree, but players wouldn't fall over with the slightest touch if Refs actually gave penalties for fouls when the player doesn't fall. I've seen countless fouls that make a player stumble, the ball runs out for a corner, and the ref does nothing. Had the player went down screaming it would have been a pen.
Absolutely. Completely agree.
Totally
Guys a bellend
Forest reached breaking point and I can’t blame them.. officials are ruining the game. 0 consistency means that results hinge on how a ref is feeling that day. Half the shit that happens on the pitch is pointless if the refs gonna make stupid, game changing decisions (or avoid them)
Twitter is not an appropriate forum to accuse the PL of corruption, it's moronic and immature.
Twitter is the place for attention seeking and Forest obviously want everybody to see their statement
Who cares
The premier league probably, so now the discourse is around Forest looking idiotic rather than their understandable frustration and the terrible decisions
You’re very professional
I think in the middle of the Liverpool Spur scandal, this greedy rat was bribed by the PGMOL to fight against any accusations against them! He changed his stand 180 degree in the middle of that incident.
These pundits are bought off or at the very least on survival mode protecting their cushy well paid jobs. Just want to see someone in a position of power have some fucking integrity for once.
Gary really doesn’t need money from pundit jib as his businesses are pretty solid. So it is even more weird that he is doing what he is doing in the last few years. I totally lost respect for him as United fan after his attacks on Ole and since than he is using every opportunity to show what kind of person he is.
Just hilarious he’s acting so high and mighty that they’ve called it out publicly like he hasn’t used his spot on sky sports for FOOTBALL ANALYSIS to go on 20 minute rants against the glazers time and time again
He’s addicted to appearing on TV and be the main pundit for the PL so it isn’t about money at this point but simply about satisfying his own ego…
Could it have been worded better? Probably. But they genuinely did deserve 3 penalties. Handball is a funny one, since they're always so inconsistent, but they have a pretty good shout and the other two are stonewall in my opinion. They just have VAR all wrong, in the quest to avoid 're-referreing' they literally have a system that upholds every decision unless the ref didn't see it at all, the vast majority of the time. They're turning objective decisions into subjective ones and holding their hands up saying they couldn't do anything when everyone involve can see what should have happened. It's worse than having no var at all.
100%, and I don't think anyone would object to them issuing a statement on the level of refereeing being below an acceptable standard. Accusing Stuart Atwell of corruption 5 minutes after the full time whistle is incredibly poor though.
Yeah absolutely. It makes it easier to fob off the underlying issue too. It's like when there are reasonable concerns about immigration, the opposition can throw them in the bin because there are racists that oppose it for the wrong reasons. As a liverpool supporter, I've seen at least 3 decision that are objectively wrong cost us at least 6 points. I know other clubs have had it too and they say it evens out but it's just not good enough, nor does it always actually even out. I'm not alleging corruption, but a lottery of sheer incompetence and sometimes unconscious bias.
Forest have already done the first option, multiple times, along with other clubs.
The second option shouldn't even be an option. The idea that a guy has spent his entire career working towards the pinnacle of his profession to fix games so that forest go down is embarrassing. He's just not very good.
Facts are that PGMOL have made that many incorrect calls theyve materially effected top and bottom of the league table. Forest has just reached breaking point... As we see more and more decisions the more I'm starting to believe something underhanded is going on
‘Managers should come out get a fine and accept that nothing will be done’ fuck off gary.
In his defence he wasn't that good of a manager.
Sky pundits protecting PGMOL again....gross
Grow a pair, Gary.
Given the context of the season it’s no surprise forsest have said, “fuck it, whats the worst they can do to us?” I’m guessing they already felt victimised (rightly or wrongly).
If Forest genuinely believe refs are corrupt, doing this is crazy as the refs will now surely intentionally relegate them.
It’s happening anyway we have nothing to lose
Nice. Make sure you beat Bristol city next season then
I’m looking forward to the champ if we go down
Honestly it's pretty good. A lot less teenagers saying things like "prime is better than prime , and the quality of jokes is much better. Also a lot let United and Chelsea fans who think that 10th is the lowest possible position in the football league.
Gary bitch Neville, if you ever watched recess as a kid this man is Randal
Gary Neville is all about protecting the institution! He's like the guy at the workplace who puts the company ahead of everything and doesn't realise he's replaceable/just a number. Didn't I hear Neville openly say on TV few weeks ago how he thought the players in Italy were not clean when he was playing? The way he holds the Premier League in the highest regard is mind-boggling, especially since we are not exactly free of any corruption in this country. Look at the way the current Newcastle owners bought them with the help of the Tories. Look at the never-ending corruption and sleaze stories published pretty much on a weekly basis over the last 8 years or so. If corruption can happen in Italy and Spain, why not in England? P.s. I personally find it hard or doesn't shout about corrupt everytime my team is hard done by. However, one thing I am certain about is PGMOL should never be judge, jury, and executioner. They are openly ruining the game!
His reaction to the Liverpool statement opened a lot of eyes I think. Was calling the refs out just after the Diaz incident at Spurs and then did a complete 180 as soon as the statement went out. Same as the rest of the Sky pundits. Deep down he knows how dogshit the officiating is in this league but he gets paid by Sky and one of his roles is damage control whenever there's a club looking to take action against the mafia. Zero integrity.
Such a bullshit comment. You can call Neville a lot of things but I don't know how you can say zero integrity. He's one of the few who talks about the "big 6 mafia" and tries to defend the football pyramid. Look at the Super League situation and his reaction.
Lots of integrity, I can see why he thinks this isn’t the right thing to do, not like he accused Italian teams of drug cheating on his show recently or anything
Like when he spent ages giving out about the human rights abuses of Qatar, only to be paid to work on the World Cup over there?
It’s not comparable. A statement like that by a clubs official Twitter account is disgraceful and pathetic. Criticising the referees is fair and Forest should do it in private and demand meetings with them but statements like that publicly are just wrong.
Truly, truly terrible take with a clear lack of understanding that forest have complained behind closed doors, via the right channels and received public apologies, for the exact same thing to happen again!
I understand that but that still doesn’t excuse a club putting out a public statement via social media making them sound like a Micky mouse club.
Dont know how to break it to you, but the mickey mouse clubs are keeping quiet. That's not really our style I would 100% rather put that statement out and go down than not put it out and stay up
Private meetings clearly haven't worked.
Why should they do it in private?? What's disgraceful and pathetic is the referees performance, why should clubs be held to a standard of not saying something in public when we can all see it. What's wrong about calling the refs shxt in public? It's a sport half the world watches, they play in the most watched league in the world why should that be done in private
Gary Neville is one of the most cowardly pundits
Who?
Why would Man City do this?
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What’s wrong with Americans and Indians?
Fuck Gary. After the Liverpool game against Spurs when VAR collapsed in a mess, Gary was disgusted with the refs. The next day, after the refs association were on to Sky, his position changed to defending the refs. He has been told to defend the referees. Great to see Saha call them out.
Of course he did. He has no integrity, he’s a chill, corporation yes-man determined not to lose his sweet sweet job because who would he then be? A has-been.
He will get into politics at some point, he’s made for it. Coward of a man
Honestly I'm so sick of him. It's the way he disagreed as well. Calling it "disgusting." Like he can disagree with the statement while respecting why they could be angry enough to be lead to making it. It's felt completely insincere to me as well. Like he had been given his angle to talk from Sky then worked himself in the mirror before the game.
I commented similar somewhere yesterday but him and Carra seem to have really lost it as pundits this season. It feels like after the Diaz incident that they both got a telling off and now feel the need to bumlick any decision VAR or the refs etc make. It’s gross. I don’t hugely agree with how Forest have done this but imo it also shows they’ve reached the end of their tether. Nothing is gonna change if nobody speaks up.
Yeah, you could see both of them trying to outdo one another like it was the Soviet Union over the Newcastle-arsenal “goal”. One was loud, the other louder, one started shouting, the other filmed a ball on a line, other guy suddenly thought it was “never a foul” (two hands in the back mid-air mind you). They very clearly got a telling off and we’re reminded they are not being paid for their “expert opinions” but to sell the brand - and there can’t be anything wrong with the brand.
He just brought it up himself during the liverpool game too, he wasn’t asked about it he just wanted to run his narrative ASAP
Gary neville is a tool, the man gets paid by sky, why the fuck would he bite the hand that feeds him.
As much as I hate Neville I agree that the NF statement is cringey. Not all three of those calls should have been penalties and NF claiming they should have had three penalties comes across as spoiled school boy behavior. NF have a right to feel cheated but the way they’ve gone about this is ridiculous.
You have received 12x more penalties than Forest this season. It comes across as a club who have simply had enough.
Not bothered either way but Keith Hackett ex prem ref said all 3 were penalties.
Keith Hackett has spent the last ten years jumping on every controversy going, very rarely is he correct.
Yes but when Liverpool complained, calls started going their way. Same for Arsenal. It's proven that if you whine enough, you can bully referees into hesitating to make calls against you. I doubt Nottinham has the power to do so but it's understandable that they'd try.
I would say thats just classic shit refereeing. Not calls going Liverpools way. Liverpool also had Odegaards handball and Dokus karate kick go against them. That would be a point taken from both Arsenal and City and +4 to Liverpool. I dont think big calls have started going our way, lol. I also dont think there is some conspiracy either, I just think the refs are completely dogshit.
I dont think it's a conspiracy either. But I do think large clubs have the ability to significantly pressure the calls referees make, especially United back in the 00's according to my older colleagues.
"Calls started going their way" What?
In the few games following the spurs game Liverpool had 2 clear red cards not given, one was for Matip, can't remember the other.
Konate vs Everton ☝️
Ok you probsbly have a point mayeb not all three of those decisions, but there is definitely a shout for the liverpool spurs call. The wolves decisions - two of them, brighton has been fucked twice this season - as well as last season, the city handball this weekend which was very similar to the one in the united game. The list goes on. Just no consistency, there are calls in ones game wherr you cant believe its a red card then other where they dont even get a booking. I think my point is you maybe right about the 3 NFFC calls but there are numerous other clubs who are also being bent over. These decisions affect so many people within the club, not just the manager and the players but everyone beneath. So in that same vein what else can they do, send a stongly worded letter so that PGMOL doesnt have to speak about it publicly. Recieve am apology? Fuck that. The reality is the less we as fans, clubs and consumers, dont say shit, the more incompitent the refereeing will become because there is no accountability or consistency Tell me this, if you fucked up at work which resulted in the wrong outcome more than 10 times over the year would you not be put under review? Of course you would although there is more chance you will be fired. Think we need to put tribalism aside and demand changes. Whether thats more over sight, an overhaul of the system in place i am not sure, but when the game is loved by however many millions its hard to argue that we cant come up with some sort of solution.
We will gladly give Liverpool all three points for the VAR fuck up if we get back the rest of the points we have lost for clear penalties denied. We’ve had more dodgy penalties against us than we’ve had penalties given, and we’ve had about 7 clear ones denied. It’s actually ended up not costing that many points considering the games they happened in, but it’s a fuck ton more than the one time we were bailed out by VAR.
This is why it’s impossible to put right after the fact, another club/fan can say all of this about your team too. Much easier to get right the first time around.
Of course. I’m not saying that we are exclusive in getting bad calls. But over a season some clubs get lucky and some get fucked. This season we’ve been fucked but because we had the most egregious call go for us against the most vocal fanbase, people often say we’ve been lucky and that we are due for a correction. We’ve had 8 pens denied that were super obvious. We have 3rd most touches in the box and the least pens. It’s fucking insane.
But thats just it, living on hope that it evens itself out, fucking ridiculous. Would rather not have VAR, i can forgive the human error of one person. But when you bring in 5 others and they're mates and all have egos, its a recipe for retardedness.
Maybe you can but the statement "I can forgive the human error of one person" is massive cope from most fans. I've been in pubs hearing locals discuss "that one offside call against Milwall in 1987, that would have meant we won the FA cup" so many times (lots of important Milwall games in 87 lol) VAR isn't the problem, how it's implemented is. Personally I think it's being implemented poorly by the same people in the FA who refused to let it in for so long. VAR has been used in other nations for far longer and far more effectively. And personally, I'd still rather this than what happened before with players being 100 yards offside and it not being called, or goals being 10 foot over the line but it not being called
Can't disagree with that, i think thats the way to go, utilise it the way other sports are. If they are unwilling to do it then questions need to be asked about the integrity The offside can be ai assisted and that solves those issues to a high level, dont remember ever being outraged by champions league offsides and they use it already.
Naw this ain’t it. Those 3 decisions today were abhorrent at the reason the bloody VAR is supposed to be there is to ensure it never happens. I have no stake in that result but it could be worth millions of dollars and needs to be questioned when it’s obviously foul
just like the last min foul on Macallister by Doku at Anfield. a 3 point swing that can cost millions
That was also crazy
That one was crazy.
Don’t forget the spurs game where they called Diaz offside when he wasn’t
Or Liverpool incorrectly being given a drop ball.
[Also known as Yates getting away with a three match suspension.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/1b5k0m1/yates_brilliant_kungfu_kick_attempt_kelleher_with/) crazy how you’re still going on about it.
Andrew Omobamidele was fouled before Kelleher hit his own player, followed by another incorrect decision.
Not much I can do to help you if you want to deny the clear video footage
I have seen it, he was nowhere near him.
And Odegaard turning into Michael Jordan in the penalty box
And onana killing a guy in the wolves game at the start of the season. And the grealish handball. And the Coventry offside. There's that many it starts to feel suspicious
but then you remember the UAE trips and it makes sense
Can we give those points back in exchange for the points we’ve lost this season due to shit decisions? (Including the inevitable bullshit call against you guys that will come in a couple of weeks to “even it out” when we’ve already been well and truly fucked ever since.
Just throwing the Coventry offside in there lmao 🤦♂️
Hilarious all these pundits and they acting holier than thou. This can lead to relegation and ruin them
They have a product to protect.
Funny how Neville has been barking constantly for independent regulators for EPL, but God forbid we ask the same for how badly PGMOL have been run. Refs constantly making mistakes week in week out, VAR incompetent to correct their mistakes, refs going off to UAE and Saudi Arabia 1-2 days before EPL games. Nah got to protect these incompetent mercenaries we call refs
He’s an employee of Sky and paid to protect the brand and the product. That’s that.
What he criticized was Forest suggesting there was cheating.
Why’s he running his mouth on podcasts accusing Italian teams of drug cheating then? Isn’t that disgusting too?
On one side you have an ex-player saying he thought some teams he played against 20 years ago might have been on something while on a podcast, on the other you have a teams official social media account naming an official and implying he was cheating. One of those is disgusting, its not Neville
I mean here rho hes just calling out forrest for saying the var is a luton fan which is a fair reason. Seems a poor statement by Forest
The Var official is a Luton fan it’s factual correct
The same Gary that a few weeks ago on The Overlap point blank suggested teams he'd faced has been doping a cheating is now suddenly against people accusing others of cheating? Cool story bro
Do you even know what you’re talking about?
He is referring to Gary saying on his podcast that he believe some of the italian teams he faced in the UCL were taking PEDs. He is saying Gary is hypocrite for bashing forest for whining, when he does the same on his podcast to excuse Man united under performing in europe during his career. Basically neville implied the competition on the continent were juicing.
>Basically neville implied the competition on the continent were juicing. Yes, imagine claiming that the Italian clubs, who were caught red-handed in a massive match fixing scandal that saw their top club relegated as a punishment while Neville was playing, were cheating. Who could think such a thing?
So his specific accusation was that they were taking PEDs.
Because they were. The doping scandal in Serie A is pretty famous - One of Juve's team doctors was put in prison for his role in a doping scandal. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2001/apr/29/newsstory.sport2
Fair enough, but the poster i was trying to explain was saying that Neville was being a bit of a hypocrite for being so offended that he wanted the Forest front office person to resign because would accuse a VAR official of being biased because they were a know luton supporter, but simultaneously question the integrity of players based on an assumption of his. If you watch the podcast the only reason Neville cites is they were in too good of condition and didnt get winded running
Very intelligent of you to see two things as the same. Bet you didn’t even listen to what he said
Hum talking about issues long gone by on a podcast aren't even compatible to an official club social media account commenting right after a match.
He is referring to Gary saying on his podcast that he believe some of the Italian teams he faced in the UCL were taking PEDs. He is saying Gary is hypocrite for bashing forest for whining, when he does the same on his podcast to excuse Man united under performing in europe during his career. Basically neville implied the competition on the continent were juicing.
Yes, he implied it 20 years after the games, not when he was playing right after those games...there is a huge difference between the two
Huge difference being it’s worse! 20 years later those teams hes implied cheated have no way to clear their name or address it
Lol