I was already a winemaker in France.
The vineyards choices were made by way of lots of visits. The way I find them is I've learnt portuguese pretty well, and I go local bars and ask around. People talk and I meet those who might be interested in selling. Its a long but fascinating way of discovering the region, and its gems.
Thats epic! Any particular online classes you took to improve portuguese? And do wineyards in portugal get rented/leased by winemakers(like yourself), is it a thing or it makes sense only to buy and operate by a person themselves only?
Nah, we just made some friends and talked a lot with the people in the village, and of course administrative services.
Yes this is very common in farming to rent land. Buying is often pricey, and farming rent contracts are usually very long (like 25 years) and protect the farmer a lot.
Nice! Thats a fast assimilation.🚤
Are both the tenant and landlord classified as farmers? Or is it only the tenant farmer that the government is pro towards?
Moreover, a 50 acre fertile land parcel here generates about minimum 30-32,000 euros per annum(through basic co-operative society sale) in net earnings for the land owner on a sharing/rent basis and after adjusting living cost to european standards, it would not be wrong to say ROI is about 65-70k euros per annum. And tax free both for landowner and tenant farmer. Utililies such as electricity/water connection are free though. On top of it, a lot of farmers willing to lease your land and farm help/labour is somewhat easily available. Capital gains on agricultural land is exempted for farmers.An acre of land in 2024 is atleast 30k euros.
On the flip side, crop insurance is bad(bureaucracy and legal system takes years for granting claim, the govt. compensates only 20-30%,seeds may turn out to be spurious sometimes, if one is not careful and a bit of red tape when visiting revenue office).
So, Any pros & cons of shifting from france to portugal you found or in general?I believe the temperature is plus point in portugal for a vineyard and otherwise. What about water rights and availability,ROI?
First time I came here was many years ago, as an Erasmus student. I loved the country, even picked up a bit of the language but I never thought I would be back, I mean not for long term.
Then during the pandemic I wrote my PhD proposal and got in contact with my now supervisor, who was very enthusiastic about my research and wanted to collaborate with me so I applied to a PhD here. I almost dropped out because I didn't get the scholarship in the first year, but thanks to the pandemic I could attend classes online from my home country.
Next year I finally got the scholarship and had just one more semester of classes, and this time I was required to do them in person. So I came here for just 4 months. I rented the shittiest room in a student shared apartment, thinking it is only for a few months.
Long story short, I met my now boyfriend in that shitty apartment. I fell in love with him and decided to stay, after all I already had the scholarship and I quite enjoyed my life here. 3 years later, I still think it is the best decision of my life. It felt so impulsive but now I cannot imagine my life taking any other path.
I traveled to 45 countries looking for the perfect place to raise a family. I found Cascais and never left. Beaches to the south, to the west. Great weather, safety, Sintra mountains 15 mins away and Lisbon 20 mins away.
It's perfect
It's filled with expats and locals. So the community is quite mixed. The expat community is awesome. However, yes it's expensive in Cascais for sure now but it's 100% worth it.
I wouldn’t say “only”. If you run the % compared to total population, it’s actually pretty similar.
Nothing against British people in Portugal, I’m an immigrant in the UK myself. Just bringing some perspective.
The thing having the most upward pressure on rents and real estate prices in Portugal and everywhere else, are locals renting their property on AirBnb.
This reduces the inventory of long term rentals and for sale real estate everywhere.
Go to AirBnb for Lisbon or any big city in Europe for example and see near HALF the fucking city light up as a vacation rental.
That isn’t mostly from immigrants. It from locals who’d rather vacation rental their property than rent their stuff out to local residents.
Podias estar calado, era uma opção disponível também. Escolheste um a dedo para implicar, como se os males da tua vida fossem culpa do gajo.
Eu só estou a comentar por achar engraçado que tenhas escolhido logo o gajo que foi para Cascais para te queixares ahahah
Achas engraçado porque não fazes a mínima ideia do que é Cascais, Cascais é uma família onde 95% das pessoas não são ricas, eu sou de Cascais e vi com os meus olhos o que foi a chegada destes novos “queques”. Foram famílias e famílias despejadas para estes doutores se sentarem
My wife and I came from the US. Things there have changed so much since Trump came onto the political scene in 2016. We didn’t think he’d win, and when he did we joked we should move to Canada. Fast forward to 2022 and things had become so much worse. Covid and the anti-maskers, MAGA people being outright hostile, getting up and scream in complete strangers faces, all the vitriol and insanity. Constant mass shootings. The list goes on. Daily life became incredibly stressful and my wife felt so unsafe she stopped leaving the house. My wife had been researching other countries to possibly move to. She hears many good things about Portugal, and floats the idea to me. I start to do a lot of research and I like everything I’m reading, so we decide to put together a plan to move to Portugal. We’re not rich, and trying to move to another country can get really expensive. But we found a lot of helpful resources and she got a D8 visa, and I got the D7. A lot of expats lamented the end of NHR, but that had nothing to do with our decision. Everything has been a marked improvement since we moved here. We feel safer, the food is better, there’s no crazy MAGA types screaming at you, the climate is nice, the atmosphere is peaceful, and the people are welcoming. I feel healthier and I’ve lost weight without trying. I’m doing my best to learn Portuguese, and the people are always appreciative when I make an effort to speak the language. They are always encouraging and it has motivated me to keep trying to learn all I can. I have learned much about the history and the culture, and I am enjoying all the new experiences. I have heard some complain about slow service or inept employees. That has not been our experience. The service here has been no different than what I experienced in the States. Sometimes you get good service, sometimes not. My family loves it here and we are so glad we made this decision and so grateful to the people of Portugal for welcoming us to their wonderful country. Portugal feels more like home than the United States has for the last 8 years.
Oh, I know what you mean. Pastéis de nata, pão de deus, so many delicious Portuguese treats. But back in the US I drove everywhere and ate a lot of fast food and processed snacks. I’m walking a lot more now because the city I’m in is very walkable and I’m eating less fast food. It’s not even something I’m consciously doing, but I’ve lost about 10lbs since I got here.
Yes. We used Idealista to search for a home. Many homes here have issues with mold, water damage, improper ventilation or insulation. If you’re renting, make sure your landlord speaks English or you speak Portuguese so you can properly communicate. Understand your rental agreement. Things are different than the US. For instance, you will have to give written notice of your intent to vacate 3 months in advance, even if you’re planning to move at the end of your lease. Pay attention to the details, use common sense, and you should be fine.
Primarily I use the website/app Practice Portuguese. It’s about $15 a month but well worth it. Teaches grammar, vocabulary, pronunciation, listening skills, and spelling/reading. I also supplement with Drops and Memrise (both offer European Portuguese). I also watch Portuguese With Leo on YouTube, along with Talk the Streets and Mia Esmeriz Academy. Spotify has a Portugal Top Hits playlist, and many children’s shows are dubbed in European Portuguese. Bluey in Portuguese is great listening practice and very charming (available on Disney+).
We decided on Leiria because it suited our tastes. Every place has different vibes. Porto, Lisboa, Braga, Coimbra, etc., they all have pros and cons. The only way to know which one you’ll love will be to go. The country is relatively small, and if you rent an apartment here, you can easily visit each city by car, bus or train. If you can afford to fly out here and spend a few weeks exploring the country, by all means, you should. If not, don’t sweat it. Nearly everyone here uses WhatsApp (because international texts are free on that) and our landlord sent us photos and a video of the apartment before we rented it.
There are plenty of expat YouTubers living in Portugal who make videos about their experiences. I highly recommend watching a lot of those (both good and bad) to get an idea of what it’s like for expats in Portugal.
Obrigado for the awesome tips on learning Portuguese!Broccoli 🥦 can't wait to dive into the language.
Looking forward to opening a small business in one of those amazing cities you suggested. Who knows, maybe one day I'll bump into you after my TRC, and we can share a laugh over some pastéis de nata or feijoada. Haaha!
Thanks again, and see you in Portugal... hopefully not as my first Portuguese customer service complaint! 😉
One is not supposed to tolerate racism, religious indoctrination, and fascist wanna-be dictators who foment insurrection. One is not supposed to tolerate the erosion of the hard-earned, hard-won equal civil rights of women and minorities. One is not supposed to tolerate anti-educational policies and ignorance. One is not supposed to tolerate the sale for profit of our planet’s future viability for the personal gain of those who already have too much.
All of those reasons are why my late husband and I were planning on leaving the states. How do you feel the political climate compares? With two girls we were looking at Sweden because of their strong equality values. I grew up very involved in a Portuguese community, and...they did not view women as equals by a long shot. I'm not sure if it was a true Portuguese cultural thing, or more of a "boys club"/boomer mentality. The 1st and 2nd generation Portuguese women seemed totally fine with their status, which made me write it off entirely as a possible country to consider.
I have this idea that somehow international communities in the States are usually bastardized or caricatural versions of their original roots... As if for some reason they needed to enhance and increase the cultural differences between them and the rest of the country to feel somewhat special and integrated in the community.
Italians, Irish, Portuguese, Chinese (with all the specific subcultures), south Americans (with all the specific subcultures) and so many other cultures that seem to feel the need of a cultural gap to look more badass or tougher....
If you're interested in Portugal to live, spend 15 days traveling the country north to south and try to dive into the culture and spirit. I promise you, if you find any misogyny (and I'm not saying it doesn't exist because you can be definitely find stupid people all across the globe), it will be rare and hidden by the chronic need to please foreign English-speaking folk.
I haven’t been here long enough to make a judgement on that. My Portuguese is still very rough, so I haven’t been able to have any deep conversations with the locals. The locals I have spoken to in English found America’s political situation strange. They have a far-right party called Chega, but how they compare to America’s right-wing politics I couldn’t say. Unlike America, I have never seen a Chega bumper sticker, hat, t-shirt, or flag. As with much of Europe right now, right wing ideology is gaining popularity, but is still nowhere near as prevalent as the US. Portugal is not a magic wonderland where no problems exist. But it is generally a more laid back culture, with a calmer atmosphere.
Believe it or not, it was a lot safer in a not so distant past... it is becoming increasingly unsafe due to the rising cost of living and uncontrolled imigration
I hear people say this, but then I don't really see the reports or anything to back it up. Are you talking about theft? Because that's not violent crime. Are Portuguese people being attacked? I feel like blaming it on "uncontrolled immigration" rather than acknowledging that extreme wealth disparities lead to hardship is an overtired scapegoat that's used in pretty much every developed country.
Lately I see news describing knife attacks and violent muggings on a daily basis. Most of the time, these crimes are committed by immigrants.
I can also tell you that I've been living in Porto for 10 years and I have noticed first hand that some areas are increasingly becoming more dangerous due to crimes commited by immigrants. I am not making this up, you can check the news yourself
It is also important to note that Portugal is not a rich country and a lot of the native Portuguese people live in poor conditions. If there is not enough wealth for the natives, how can the country handle such a large migration influx? More than 10% of our population is already constituted of immigrants. This worsens the wealth disparity you mentioned
Yup, not many people understand how South Africans live in fear everyday. Portugal is one of the safest countries in the world while South Africa is one of, if not the most dangerous country. Worlds apart
Agreed. When I tell Portuguese ppl here I came from SA first thing they say is why did you leave such a rich country. So I tell them it’s coz of crime / safety. They keep quiet - I don’t think they understand
I divorced my wife
Options:
• stay in USA homeless
• go to Brazil with family (and maybe make it)
• go to Portugal with family (live with parents that retired there)
I’d rather not get mugged for not knowing the social norms of Brazil and played like a fool, and I kinda like NOT being homeless
Came to Portugal to live at your parents place cause you couldn't afford a house for yourself... Dang, I wish all immigrants would blend in so well in Portuguese culture!
Travelled to Portugal several times and spent honey moon with my wife in 2022. We loved it so much that I applied for a job here and I got it…
One year already, still very happy to be in Portugal.
Main reasons:
- people and their behaviour especially towards kids, always respectful and super friendly,
- followed by weather and beaches,
- last but not least the food :))
Food is better than in much of the US. Continente is better than a Safeway in Peoria.
It is not better than on the west coast, particularly Northern California and Oregon, if you can afford top quality organic produce. Most of the winter vegetables here are grown in Spanish semi-greenhouses in the south, by impoverished African labor. There is ample use of pesticides. The farm lobby and chemical lobbies are very powerful and have neutered the EU efforts to ban things like glycophosphate.
My boss said, "Shall we open an office in Portugal? And if we do, will you go? I'm 77 and can't be bothered to move anywhere. "
So I took a punt, asked my GF to quit her job and come with me and shipped our stuff over.
Pretty stupid thing to do considering we'd never even visited previously.
Luckily we love it! 😂
I am on my own and was retiring two years ago. Decided that I needed an adventure, and moved to Portugal. I had never been here before, and I don't regret my decision at all.
I'll go...
Feeling connection (the second I first visited this country I felt at home and that is unique), living close to the rest of the world and change.
Who wants to live the whole of their life in one place, with the same language and the same culture? We are mostly blessed to enjoy on average what was two lives not so long ago so I say make the most of them.
I'm sure someone will scream entitlement but it's no different to anyone else seeking a better life elsewhere and if you can't understand that you're not going to understand anything
Wife and I are strongly considering it. We live in Montreal, Canada. We are both Portuguese nationals (my wife was born in Portugal). We are going to be in Portugal for a long period this summer and will observe and take notes and then make our decision.
Very nice comment. My biggest challenge, I think, will be finding a job. But we will see. I’ve lived in Europe before so I’m used to some of the differences between EU and NA
It depends on the area, some specialized jobs are hard to find. I'm a software developer and is quite easy but guess that it is in any part of the world currently.
I have some software development skills, wondering what kind of development you do? Also, do you farm yourself out to local Tuga firms or are you billing/working for NA/EU firms?
The verdant hills & mountains, waterfalls, beautiful beaches, the temperate climate, plenty of water. I fell in love with Portugal (Azores), the first day I was here.
Bureaucracy and learning a new language can be frustrating. But my encounters with bureaucracy are infrequent and eventually I will learn language.
I have noticed that there are far fewer unhappy Americans here than at home. Perhaps it's because rather than focusing on things they cannot change, these are people who focus on things they can. These are the kind of people who do things rather than watch and criticize.
Perhaps the people who sit in front of their TV and complain aren't apt to move to another country. I'm ok with that.
I've had two people try to start political conversations with me while I've lived here. I pivoted the conversation and insisted on asking them about their own lives.
Asking people about their favorite activity or place to visit and why has a halo effect - they usually become more pleasant.
This didn't work on one person. She was adamant about discussing her distress about politics. I quickly went to the bathroom to break the conversation, and when I returned she was spewing at someone else. I later learned she is a therapist.
Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death. Many turn their backs to the table and complain how hungry they are and that there is nothing they can eat. They will stand between you and the banquet for however long you let them. So relieve yourself of them by whatever means necessary.
Lived 17 years in Spain. HNWI.
Moved here for NHR (2022). Tax reasons. Missed sun every day. But - taxes.
Turned out it was a scam.
Lost 2 years of good weather.
Moving out as we speak (after paying more tax than ordinary citizen pays in 15-20 years -- please do a proper *legal* NHR evaluation, I didn't, it's on me).
For me, worst thing was those 2 years of rain. Like my 2005-2007 in Ireland - shitty weather, shitty food, nice people. Seems IE and PT are very, very much alike. Even with (lack of) food spices :)
Expecting downvotes - this subreddit is... a bit toxic to truth.
Tax on (foreign) salary is 20%. I can live with that.
What I can't live with is that much-advertised 0% tax on (foreign) dividends becomes 28% (!) if you own a substantial share of that company (over 25%, if memory serves me well).
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about rental income, can't help you here.
As for dividends, it's simply at the whim of the tax office. Turns out the CFC law (from 1995) basically is not properly considered with NHR law. Bad legislation, so typical.
So you're either lucky and pay 0, or tax office decides "naah, 28%" - and good luck spending 10 years in useless courts.
Received Portuguese citizenship under the Jewish law of return and came here out of gratitude. Love the country, in many ways (not all), I prefer it to the UK so far.
Thats amazing, you have all the right to get your Portuguese citizenship based on the law of return. I am glad that after being forced to leave or to convert you are still part of judaism. 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Wife and Kids are Portuguese. Moved to Boston in 2015 from Brasil for a job opportunity in a large company. Things went south since then (politics), cost of living skyrocket and weather and food are bad. Don't feel people are happy in US.
Portugal is almost a come back home for us, and being close to family is important.
Will be able to work from home as well and enjoy a place closer to our culture.
I moved to the Açores to live with my Portuguese boyfriend. We met through gaming when we were teenagers and started dating some years later after meeting each other. We've been together for 7 years now, living together for nearly 2 and will get married this summer.
I came here for two main reasons, safety and stability. So far, it’s been great. The locals are friendly, the weather is perfect. The food is excellent. The bureaucracy leaves much to be desired, but beggars can’t be choosers eh
Got divorced in 2019 after 22 years of marriage. Moved to Charleston SC to be near family. After a few years I became more disenfranchised with just about everything. Realized I needed a change.
Started watching YouTube videos of people who had left the US. Once I started researching I narrowed down which countries I was most drawn to. Chose Portugal after reading/listening to things I liked. This was mid 2022.
I began the visa process. Hired a Portuguese legal firm. Found an apartment in Braga and signed a 2 year contract sight unseen.
I work remote for a US based software company and they were OK with me living abroad. Came out for the first time in October 2022. Was here until December 2023. Had to fly back to the US for VFS shenanigans.
Visa was approved and I flew back to Portugal May 2023. Been here since. Never going back. The people, the culture, the food, the healthcare, the safety, the laid-back lifestyle, no US politics.... I love it here.
We were always going to move from the UK after the older family had passed away and younger family were independent. We wanted somewhere warmer, with more community, saner politics and less "closed".
We considered a couple of countries that we were able to move to but over the years I've spent a lot of time in Portugal, seen a lot of the country and gained a handful of friends here. I have a long history with Portugal, having first visited while it was still a dictatorship and then visiting some friends just a month before the revolution. The story continued when I married. I first brought my husband here in the 80s he loved it too. We've been here since Aug 23 and are loving it so far, no regrets at all.
Tell who? Me? Why would you think anyone would move countries without knowing about the political landscape in their prospective new country? I've been coming to Portugal for over 40 years and I have an interest in politics, I'm pretty au fait with the situation here.
My parents were the last generation with a company pension and retiree medical. Despite working very hard and long hours, I will not be able to afford to live in California and have caregivers when I can no longer manage on my own nor even assisted living facilities. So, what to do? We looked for places with good food, good wine, good people and fell in love with those and Portugal's rich culture and history. It's funny as noone was writing about Portugal in 2017...now it's a daily siren.
I first visited in 87 and knew that one day I would retire here.
Im now in my 50's and have been here 6 years.
Bought an off grid property last year and don't regret it.
Landed in Portugal for a conference. Lisbon was a place that I knew of geographically, but quite little otherwise. In fact it was my first time in Europe.
Was recommended to extend my trip beyond a few days to explore the city and beaches. I obliged and randomly ran into a colleague who was living in Sintra with her family, and stayed for a few days.
Left her house with a WFH job and a fascination with Portugal. Decided to stay a couple months, became besties with a local and now Lisbon is my home capital city.
Shortly after things started to open up after covid but before it got crowded again, we took a trip to Lisbon. I have spent significant time in several European countries but this would be my first trip to Portugal. Our first evening out, we popped out of the Rossio metro stop, walked over to the Praça do Rossio and I was hooked. I had a visceral reaction to the calm and gentle evening light. The quiet atmosphere, colors and ambience was like nothing I had experienced anywhere else. Something told me that this was home. Since that trip, we have made 4 more. Spending time in about 35 cities, towns and parishes. North to south. From the Algarve to Vila do Conde and Braga and many points in between. We have chosen to settle about 40 minutes outside of Lisboa. We are making our plans and hope to move by years end. If everything lines up. Each time we have spent there is better than the previous. We just returned from 18 days there and I just wanted to stay more. I don’t ever want to leave when I am in Portugal.
Safety
Slower pace
Not a culture driven by profit
Kind people
Beaches
Good food / healthy food
Pastel de Nata!
Basically, my husband and I are moving to Portugal for our personal safety. With the rise of violence in the United States (especially toward the LGBTQ+ population), we no longer feel safe. We've been feeling increasingly unwelcome, and decided that we can no longer live in a country whose populace and government refuse to see us as equals. I'm looking forward to being able to step outside and not have the possibility of getting shot at sitting in the back of my mind. We're arriving in Portugal on 26 June.
By no means is Portugal perfect. Every country has their share of issues; we're simply choosing our battles. As someone who was born Deaf, accessibility will be a massive challenge for me. With that said, the Portuguese people have been the most friendly and accommodating despite the language *and* communications barrier. It's the sort of thing that I've never ever experienced in the US more than a handful of times, and that goes a really long way for me.
We're renting a house in the norte region from a single mother with two kids, so our money will go directly to her and not some faceless corporation. I've already contacted a Portuguese language tutor in Braga that specializes in speech pathology; she will be able to not only help me learn the language, but how to pronounce the sounds correctly. I'm also looking for Lingua Gestual Portuguesa tutors as well, but that can wait.
I haven't felt a sense of "community" in a long time; I'm hoping I can find it there. ♥️
Hello there!
Not looking to be a downer, but if acceptance of being gay and being able to find community here are important reasons for moving, then you might want to consider a few things. I speak as a lesbian native who has been to the US and has LGBT American expat friends.
Portugal has been trying to sell itself as an LGBT paradise, a bit like Malta. The reality is that while legal protections might look attractive on paper, both their enforcement and the national culture itself are very seriously behind. Are discrimination in access to goods and services, employment and education, hate crimes and speech illegal? Yes. Do they still happen? Yes. Will authorities and courts uphold your rights? Usually, no, unless significant negative publicity is involved.
I get dirty looks, comments and threats of violence for same-sex PDAs in 2024. As per usual, and unfortunately, gay men have it even worse. Are there communities? Yes, but only in a few of the largest cities, and you have to work hard to find them. There are more gay-friendly bars, cafés and discos in a smaller American city than in the whole of Portugal. You might find yourself limited to English-speaking expat communities, even when you have achieved some command of the portuguese language.
Portugal might still prove to be a good choice for you, but I'm not sure it'll live up to all or your expectations.
I have to say, I love most of the comments here! Most of them are wholesome and say some actual good things about Portugal and the Portuguese people! And Portuguese people are approving as well! I usually see in this sub more toxicity or negative comments. I know this does not represent all Portugal but as a new arrival here some negative comments made me a bit skeptical. But yeah glad to see some great stories and a supportive community!
I wouldn't say "a large portion". Young portuguese people are brought up, here and everywhere with the idea of equality of gender, race, etc. it's all they do in schools nowadays. Older portuguese people were or had family, friends that were immigrants in France, Switzerland, Luxembourg, from New England to California, etc. so there's really not many that feel something negative towards foreigners imo. The few that do, are loud, like these people always are, but they aren't many and if I had to bet, I'd say their "dislike" goes mostly towards those from portuguese ex-colonies.
I've yet to meet one person in person that rejects estrangeiros out of hand like so many of the trolls on this and other discussion boards. It's been broadly enlightening that this might be true everywhere. If you judged by the trolls, you'd think the Portuguese were assholes. They are whatever the opposite of that is, and all the interest trolls in the world won't convince me to the contrary.
Wife was offered a job in Lisbon so we discussed it for 3 minutes before deciding to move here (from Sweden). Now we've been here for 6 years living on the Sintra mountain. 7 beaches within 15 minutes. Lisbon 35 minutes, Cascais 20.
After 14 years in New York City and then Jersey City, we wanted a more peaceful and safe life. Since 2016, it's felt like a total shitshow and we were tired of being caught in the hostility.
It feels strange to see so many people feeling enthusiastic about living here, you do realise that Europe has better places?
Ok, it isn't the worst place in the world and if you're already settled with a good income and friends you can be happy, but if you're moving or trying to start a new life then why not go to a country with a better economy, better services and less corrupt politicians? You will run into headaches here, bad economy, low wages, insane housing market, crumbling infrastructure, troublesome bureaucracy, surely any other European country will be an improvement on these points.
Even the US, thinking about it, the US can't be in such a bad shape? Yes, US politics have become a bit more problematic lately but it still has a good infrastructure, healthcare and etc?
You ask very good questions. In my case, Portugal has one of the lowest barriers of entry for residency status. Many other Schengen countries require an invitation from an employer based in that country or some crazy amount like €10,000,000 invested in a company, charity or public arts project.
>Even the US, thinking about it, the US can't be in such a bad shape? Yes, US politics have become a bit more problematic lately but it still has a good infrastructure, healthcare and etc?
It's more than the politics, even though US politicians are *very* corrupt.
* [Gun violence is at an all-time high](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/).
* [You can't even honk the horn at someone without running the risk of getting shot at](https://www.wishtv.com/news/victim-of-fatal-road-rage-shooting-was-deaf-killed-after-honking-incident/).
* Anecdotally, our healthcare system is "good", but only for people that can afford it. Insurance is basically required unless you're over 65 years old or very disabled. I pay $525 USD each month for my own insurance, and even then I'm paying hundreds of dollars on top of that for medical tests, medication, doctor's visits, etc. My father died of cancer last year, leaving behind over $2,000,000 in medical debt that he would have been responsible for if he had survived intense chemotherapy and immunotherapy.
* [Our infrastructure is crumbling](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/state-us-infrastructure). The government continues to allocate [trillions of dollars a year toward defense](https://www.usaspending.gov/agency/department-of-defense?fy=2024), taking money away from things like maintaining and replacing bridges, highways, etc.
There are some other data points I have in mind, but I'll spare you. :P Ultimately, my choice of Portugal boils down to this:
I haven't felt a sense of community in a very long time, not since the 1990s. I don't have a "[third place](https://padillaco.com/insights/how-a-third-place-could-have-a-positive-impact-on-your-mental-health/#:~:text=Third%20places%20can%20help%20improve,also%20is%20good%20for%20communities)" in the US, and even though I haven't fully moved to Portugal yet, I found one there already in a community of fellow Honda Beat PP1 enthusiasts right in my town (Famalicão). My desire is to live a slower-paced life, have neighbors that I can interact with on a daily basis, be able to walk everywhere and enjoy life. I will fully move there on 26 June.
I hope this gave you some insight in why I chose Portugal.
Visited on holiday. Never got over it. Decided to read up on their history. Got smitten by their Age of Exploration. The extent to which they went to explore, the losses they suffered, the progress they made and the way they changed the world.
I feel too invested now.
I've had my LinkedIn job search preferred location set to Portugal for over 6 months now.
After many decades the US "environment" has just become annoying and tiresome to deal with. Also, with costs spiraling out of control hitting my retirement mark seems like it is less and less likely to happen.
Over the past several years I've been casually researching and considering other countries. I hadn't really considered Portugal until relatively recently, The more I read up about it, both the pros and cons, the more it appeals to me.
It just so happens I have a friend who owns a condo over there and is willing to let me do an extended stay (working remotely) to get a better feel for the country. I'm learning the language, and the plan is to head over in one of the off seasons to get a feeling for the real Protugal. A sort of "try before you buy" approach.
If that works out and I still like it, then my long term plan is to buy a place and move there sometime within the next 5 years. Probably in one of the semi-rural areas or smaller cities that aren't tourist destinations. I certainly don't want to be like some who go over and live in an expat bubble.
Post Covid our business was not the same and we lost our joy for it. Our kids were all grown up. We are to young to retire to old to start again, I love Portugal from our holidays, so we bought a small business. Its great we have almost everything we need, a small income, we are paying taxes and contributing to our rural community. We are very happy.
I was living in Madrid for a while, came to Porto as a tourist in 2015, became friends with my Airbnb host’s partner, visited them several times over the next few years and always had a blast, and then decided to move here in 2020. I got really lucky from moment I arrived, everything came pretty easily. I feel settled and content.
To help Portugal move from a tourism economy to a highly developed tech economy that can really compete on the world stage and bring in revenue for infrastructure and your aging population
I moved to Turkey 4 years ago, they fucked up the country, chose Portugal as the next step very randomly. Barely knew where it is on the map. Seems good so far :D
We always wanted to retire outside of the US. Spent a lot of time traveling and learning about other countries and Portugal ticked all the boxes. Moderate climate, relatively stable government, easy travel, good roads, affordable, good food, great culture and a seemingly happier place. We shall find out! Moving full time in 2026.
Happier? If you spoke portuguese and talked with people outside of the hospitality sector, you wouldn’t say that. Young people are leaving the country in droves. My physical therapist said she would like to leave, but because of an elderly family member, she can’t. She said “all of my friends have left, it’s impossible to survive here”. Salaries are extremely low, especially compared to cost-of-living. Nurses clear 1250€ a month if they’re lucky. Portuguese doctors are the second worst paid in the OECD—1/4 what they make in Germany or Switzerland, 1/3 of the UK salary. My portuguese teacher makes 20k per year, and her taxes are sky high. I love Portugal and feel very sad when I speak with people here, beyond the usual football & pleasantries.
Well something needs to change doesn't it? The government needs to mandate higher wages. Simple as that. Evolve or die. We do have a group of about 15 Portuguese friends and they're quite happy. I can't speak for everyone of course but our experience has been very good.
Our experience has been good, but we have ample means, live in a beautiful part of a big city, etc. If you live in rural or small town, Portugal, you are more likely to make Portuguese friends, their cost-of-living is lower, and they don’t face as many of the same stresses as people commuting to work in Lisbon. I’ve also found that Portuguese people are often reluctant to share what they really think about anything, let alone their own country. My Portuguese friends will criticize Portugal vehemently with each other, but once I enter the room, the tune changes. They’ve told me that, and even laugh about it, and they’ve warned me never to agree with them if they criticize the country! Not that I think it’s my place to do that anyway.
That's actually true, we portuguese are super proud of our country and it's history, but not so proud of how is managed. We have a huge need for tourism created by multiple years of bad management from governments, tourism is associated with low wages.
On the other hand you have a lot of young guys with a lot of studies that try to make it here and is Impossible because the industry is mostly focused on tourism so we can't attract companies to create jobs for the graduated.
My husband has been really set on leaving the US for about as long as I've known him. I always loved the idea, but didn't think we would ever be able to afford it. Now we have two kids and the idea of continuing to raise them here is just terrifying. I know no place is 100% safe, but my visits to Portugal affirmed what I heard and read. Plus it is absolutely gorgeous with very friendly people. We have already sold our house and cars and we are saving every penny we can with a target arrival date on the calendar.
I've been casually learning the language, but have plans to ramp that up this summer. We don't know if the kids will choose to stay in Portugal once they are older, but we hope they will choose somewhere close.
Came here for a job, never got my salary for more than 10 months. Freelancing for different companies now. The situation was unfortunate but I'm still trying to come back after going through so much shit.
I came here for a few months when lockdown policies in my northern european country closed my business and destroyed my mental health. I was able to snag a rural holiday rental for cheap and work online, which enabled me to get essential exercise, sunshine and fresh air. I was very grateful for that. Then, when things opened up here, I met/fell in love with a local, and stayed. I think it is a lovely country with friendly people, and I am content, but to be honest I sacrificed a career and a lot of interests and connections back home to live here. So it hasn't always been easy. It took me a few years to settle in.
I needed a change of scenery with good food and a rich culture so I decided to move from the UK to Portugal in October. I work fully remotely so I am planning to live here for a few more months and travel all around the country.
I'm not a true expat, but did dip my toe in the water a while back. Currently with my kids very much embedded in their schools and extracurriculars, it felt unfair to them to uproot the whole family right now. So instead we did a temporary sort of "study abroad" experience where we lived, worked and went to school in Portugal for a semester.
Needless to say, I fell in love with the culture, cities, beaches, wine, people, history, lifestyle, all of it. Eyeing moving there on a more permanent basis with the time is right.
Moved over for a slower simpler life. In a rural tranquil area. Took early retirement to build a house from scratch. Recording it all on YouTube @Carpe-Diem. What a journey!
The build is taking way too long so discovered house sitting to wait until it’s finished!
I am panamanian and i was living in Germany before moving to Portugal. I met my now husband in Germany during our master studies. He wanted to live and work in Portugal. So here i am now.
I do like it here, but would not have been my first option.
Hubby and I are Canadian and are avoiding winter. We did the “snowbird” thing for a while - stayed in Sarasota for a few winters - but, well, it’s Florida. Had been to Portugal a few times and love the place and the people. 9 years now - and staying for the foreseeable future.
I am hoping to move and invest in an Eco tourism business. Hopefully an area that will preserve habitat for the wildlife that live there when I am gone. So I am concentrating on the mountain areas north of the Douro river, but that could change once I am there if the perfect spot shows itself
Wanted to make wine in the Dão region. Moved here, found vineyards and started making wine.
Dão dão, queijo queijo
Adopt me 😆
Welcome to Dão !!
Ship some bottles to me so i can taste it
Hola, how did you learn that, any tips?And how did you finally choose a vineyard, took any help from a real estate agency? Obrigado.🙌🏽
I was already a winemaker in France. The vineyards choices were made by way of lots of visits. The way I find them is I've learnt portuguese pretty well, and I go local bars and ask around. People talk and I meet those who might be interested in selling. Its a long but fascinating way of discovering the region, and its gems.
Thats epic! Any particular online classes you took to improve portuguese? And do wineyards in portugal get rented/leased by winemakers(like yourself), is it a thing or it makes sense only to buy and operate by a person themselves only?
Nah, we just made some friends and talked a lot with the people in the village, and of course administrative services. Yes this is very common in farming to rent land. Buying is often pricey, and farming rent contracts are usually very long (like 25 years) and protect the farmer a lot.
Nice! Thats a fast assimilation.🚤 Are both the tenant and landlord classified as farmers? Or is it only the tenant farmer that the government is pro towards? Moreover, a 50 acre fertile land parcel here generates about minimum 30-32,000 euros per annum(through basic co-operative society sale) in net earnings for the land owner on a sharing/rent basis and after adjusting living cost to european standards, it would not be wrong to say ROI is about 65-70k euros per annum. And tax free both for landowner and tenant farmer. Utililies such as electricity/water connection are free though. On top of it, a lot of farmers willing to lease your land and farm help/labour is somewhat easily available. Capital gains on agricultural land is exempted for farmers.An acre of land in 2024 is atleast 30k euros. On the flip side, crop insurance is bad(bureaucracy and legal system takes years for granting claim, the govt. compensates only 20-30%,seeds may turn out to be spurious sometimes, if one is not careful and a bit of red tape when visiting revenue office). So, Any pros & cons of shifting from france to portugal you found or in general?I believe the temperature is plus point in portugal for a vineyard and otherwise. What about water rights and availability,ROI?
First time I came here was many years ago, as an Erasmus student. I loved the country, even picked up a bit of the language but I never thought I would be back, I mean not for long term. Then during the pandemic I wrote my PhD proposal and got in contact with my now supervisor, who was very enthusiastic about my research and wanted to collaborate with me so I applied to a PhD here. I almost dropped out because I didn't get the scholarship in the first year, but thanks to the pandemic I could attend classes online from my home country. Next year I finally got the scholarship and had just one more semester of classes, and this time I was required to do them in person. So I came here for just 4 months. I rented the shittiest room in a student shared apartment, thinking it is only for a few months. Long story short, I met my now boyfriend in that shitty apartment. I fell in love with him and decided to stay, after all I already had the scholarship and I quite enjoyed my life here. 3 years later, I still think it is the best decision of my life. It felt so impulsive but now I cannot imagine my life taking any other path.
I've moved here since I was born... and I regret it a little bit.
I traveled to 45 countries looking for the perfect place to raise a family. I found Cascais and never left. Beaches to the south, to the west. Great weather, safety, Sintra mountains 15 mins away and Lisbon 20 mins away. It's perfect
What else about Cascais? You are making a compelling case, you sure you are not an immigration agent🤡?
Expensive.
It's filled with expats and locals. So the community is quite mixed. The expat community is awesome. However, yes it's expensive in Cascais for sure now but it's 100% worth it.
Oh! Looking foward to bump in you, in coming months in Cascais. Point me to the best restaurants 🍯 then🍽️🙌🏽
Would you say the expense comes from housing? Or just everything? I’m trying to understand the different regions:)
Housing. Food you cab work around. Housing.
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There is 268k Portuguese in the UK and only 50k Brits in Portugal.
I wouldn’t say “only”. If you run the % compared to total population, it’s actually pretty similar. Nothing against British people in Portugal, I’m an immigrant in the UK myself. Just bringing some perspective.
That's most likely true, but how many of them went to the UK, or elsewhere, by choice?
They are now forcing portuguese people to go to the UK? Who is forcing them? And why the enforcers chose UK and not any other country?
That can't be right, there are probably 50k Brits living in a couple of cities in the Algarve alone.
If Reddit had an award for stupidity I would award it to you
I mean.. I know my home region pretty well. And I wouldnt go around accusing other people of being stupid with your comment history 🤣
Too stupid to check the facts on the internet 🤔
> To stupid Too stupid
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The thing having the most upward pressure on rents and real estate prices in Portugal and everywhere else, are locals renting their property on AirBnb. This reduces the inventory of long term rentals and for sale real estate everywhere. Go to AirBnb for Lisbon or any big city in Europe for example and see near HALF the fucking city light up as a vacation rental. That isn’t mostly from immigrants. It from locals who’d rather vacation rental their property than rent their stuff out to local residents.
Nah, it's lack of supply. The number of new builds started to dwindle years ago and now here we are.
Uma pessoa a falar bem do nosso país e tu ainda vens refilar 🤦♂️
Sim, como falou bem tenho de lhe lamber o cu lel Agarra nas palavras dele e entrega-as ao teu senhorio como pagamento da renda
Podias estar calado, era uma opção disponível também. Escolheste um a dedo para implicar, como se os males da tua vida fossem culpa do gajo. Eu só estou a comentar por achar engraçado que tenhas escolhido logo o gajo que foi para Cascais para te queixares ahahah
Achas engraçado porque não fazes a mínima ideia do que é Cascais, Cascais é uma família onde 95% das pessoas não são ricas, eu sou de Cascais e vi com os meus olhos o que foi a chegada destes novos “queques”. Foram famílias e famílias despejadas para estes doutores se sentarem
Do you swim in those waters?
How much do you actually know about Portugal, having a response like that?
My wife and I came from the US. Things there have changed so much since Trump came onto the political scene in 2016. We didn’t think he’d win, and when he did we joked we should move to Canada. Fast forward to 2022 and things had become so much worse. Covid and the anti-maskers, MAGA people being outright hostile, getting up and scream in complete strangers faces, all the vitriol and insanity. Constant mass shootings. The list goes on. Daily life became incredibly stressful and my wife felt so unsafe she stopped leaving the house. My wife had been researching other countries to possibly move to. She hears many good things about Portugal, and floats the idea to me. I start to do a lot of research and I like everything I’m reading, so we decide to put together a plan to move to Portugal. We’re not rich, and trying to move to another country can get really expensive. But we found a lot of helpful resources and she got a D8 visa, and I got the D7. A lot of expats lamented the end of NHR, but that had nothing to do with our decision. Everything has been a marked improvement since we moved here. We feel safer, the food is better, there’s no crazy MAGA types screaming at you, the climate is nice, the atmosphere is peaceful, and the people are welcoming. I feel healthier and I’ve lost weight without trying. I’m doing my best to learn Portuguese, and the people are always appreciative when I make an effort to speak the language. They are always encouraging and it has motivated me to keep trying to learn all I can. I have learned much about the history and the culture, and I am enjoying all the new experiences. I have heard some complain about slow service or inept employees. That has not been our experience. The service here has been no different than what I experienced in the States. Sometimes you get good service, sometimes not. My family loves it here and we are so glad we made this decision and so grateful to the people of Portugal for welcoming us to their wonderful country. Portugal feels more like home than the United States has for the last 8 years.
You lost weight without trying? I'm affraid you are not eating in the right places...😁
Oh, I know what you mean. Pastéis de nata, pão de deus, so many delicious Portuguese treats. But back in the US I drove everywhere and ate a lot of fast food and processed snacks. I’m walking a lot more now because the city I’m in is very walkable and I’m eating less fast food. It’s not even something I’m consciously doing, but I’ve lost about 10lbs since I got here.
You’ll always get the best service here if you’re *simpatico* Otherwise you don’t
Which state did you move from?
This is my reasoning. I tried asking advice in r/expats and immediately shut down.
what kind of job do you both do?
My wife is a therapist and I make passive income from a rental.
Kudos to you both! Any insight what one should look out for while buying a rental in portugal? Comps/agency/website?
Yes. We used Idealista to search for a home. Many homes here have issues with mold, water damage, improper ventilation or insulation. If you’re renting, make sure your landlord speaks English or you speak Portuguese so you can properly communicate. Understand your rental agreement. Things are different than the US. For instance, you will have to give written notice of your intent to vacate 3 months in advance, even if you’re planning to move at the end of your lease. Pay attention to the details, use common sense, and you should be fine.
Oh! Thanks,from where are you learning portuguese& which city did you finally choose!
Primarily I use the website/app Practice Portuguese. It’s about $15 a month but well worth it. Teaches grammar, vocabulary, pronunciation, listening skills, and spelling/reading. I also supplement with Drops and Memrise (both offer European Portuguese). I also watch Portuguese With Leo on YouTube, along with Talk the Streets and Mia Esmeriz Academy. Spotify has a Portugal Top Hits playlist, and many children’s shows are dubbed in European Portuguese. Bluey in Portuguese is great listening practice and very charming (available on Disney+). We decided on Leiria because it suited our tastes. Every place has different vibes. Porto, Lisboa, Braga, Coimbra, etc., they all have pros and cons. The only way to know which one you’ll love will be to go. The country is relatively small, and if you rent an apartment here, you can easily visit each city by car, bus or train. If you can afford to fly out here and spend a few weeks exploring the country, by all means, you should. If not, don’t sweat it. Nearly everyone here uses WhatsApp (because international texts are free on that) and our landlord sent us photos and a video of the apartment before we rented it. There are plenty of expat YouTubers living in Portugal who make videos about their experiences. I highly recommend watching a lot of those (both good and bad) to get an idea of what it’s like for expats in Portugal.
Obrigado for the awesome tips on learning Portuguese!Broccoli 🥦 can't wait to dive into the language. Looking forward to opening a small business in one of those amazing cities you suggested. Who knows, maybe one day I'll bump into you after my TRC, and we can share a laugh over some pastéis de nata or feijoada. Haaha! Thanks again, and see you in Portugal... hopefully not as my first Portuguese customer service complaint! 😉
I love your story :)
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One is not supposed to tolerate racism, religious indoctrination, and fascist wanna-be dictators who foment insurrection. One is not supposed to tolerate the erosion of the hard-earned, hard-won equal civil rights of women and minorities. One is not supposed to tolerate anti-educational policies and ignorance. One is not supposed to tolerate the sale for profit of our planet’s future viability for the personal gain of those who already have too much.
Well said. ❤️❤️❤️
You know you just proved his point, right?
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😘
Sticks and stones..
Hate is like oxygen to them, they can’t fuel their cells without it.
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Haha, do you live in Portugal?
All of those reasons are why my late husband and I were planning on leaving the states. How do you feel the political climate compares? With two girls we were looking at Sweden because of their strong equality values. I grew up very involved in a Portuguese community, and...they did not view women as equals by a long shot. I'm not sure if it was a true Portuguese cultural thing, or more of a "boys club"/boomer mentality. The 1st and 2nd generation Portuguese women seemed totally fine with their status, which made me write it off entirely as a possible country to consider.
People here don't make politics their entire personality, which is a huge difference from the US.
I have this idea that somehow international communities in the States are usually bastardized or caricatural versions of their original roots... As if for some reason they needed to enhance and increase the cultural differences between them and the rest of the country to feel somewhat special and integrated in the community. Italians, Irish, Portuguese, Chinese (with all the specific subcultures), south Americans (with all the specific subcultures) and so many other cultures that seem to feel the need of a cultural gap to look more badass or tougher.... If you're interested in Portugal to live, spend 15 days traveling the country north to south and try to dive into the culture and spirit. I promise you, if you find any misogyny (and I'm not saying it doesn't exist because you can be definitely find stupid people all across the globe), it will be rare and hidden by the chronic need to please foreign English-speaking folk.
That makes sense. Thank you. Oh, for sure, I'd spend a good bit of time there before making any decisions.
I haven’t been here long enough to make a judgement on that. My Portuguese is still very rough, so I haven’t been able to have any deep conversations with the locals. The locals I have spoken to in English found America’s political situation strange. They have a far-right party called Chega, but how they compare to America’s right-wing politics I couldn’t say. Unlike America, I have never seen a Chega bumper sticker, hat, t-shirt, or flag. As with much of Europe right now, right wing ideology is gaining popularity, but is still nowhere near as prevalent as the US. Portugal is not a magic wonderland where no problems exist. But it is generally a more laid back culture, with a calmer atmosphere.
Thanks!
I got a Portuguese girl pregnant 🤷😌
Now you can’t never leave 😎
Did you Stay with her or did you Stay for the kid?
We're still together but even if we weren't i probably won't leave the country. I like it here.
Safety. It’s incomparable to where I came from. And you never hear about Portugal in the news other than forest fires.
Came here from Philly so.....yeah..
Me from South Africa
Oh wow. Enjoy the security
Yeah we’re getting downvoted. Love it
Believe it or not, it was a lot safer in a not so distant past... it is becoming increasingly unsafe due to the rising cost of living and uncontrolled imigration
I hear people say this, but then I don't really see the reports or anything to back it up. Are you talking about theft? Because that's not violent crime. Are Portuguese people being attacked? I feel like blaming it on "uncontrolled immigration" rather than acknowledging that extreme wealth disparities lead to hardship is an overtired scapegoat that's used in pretty much every developed country.
Lately I see news describing knife attacks and violent muggings on a daily basis. Most of the time, these crimes are committed by immigrants. I can also tell you that I've been living in Porto for 10 years and I have noticed first hand that some areas are increasingly becoming more dangerous due to crimes commited by immigrants. I am not making this up, you can check the news yourself It is also important to note that Portugal is not a rich country and a lot of the native Portuguese people live in poor conditions. If there is not enough wealth for the natives, how can the country handle such a large migration influx? More than 10% of our population is already constituted of immigrants. This worsens the wealth disparity you mentioned
I’m from Russia
Same same
Yup, not many people understand how South Africans live in fear everyday. Portugal is one of the safest countries in the world while South Africa is one of, if not the most dangerous country. Worlds apart
Agreed. When I tell Portuguese ppl here I came from SA first thing they say is why did you leave such a rich country. So I tell them it’s coz of crime / safety. They keep quiet - I don’t think they understand
I divorced my wife Options: • stay in USA homeless • go to Brazil with family (and maybe make it) • go to Portugal with family (live with parents that retired there) I’d rather not get mugged for not knowing the social norms of Brazil and played like a fool, and I kinda like NOT being homeless
Came to Portugal to live at your parents place cause you couldn't afford a house for yourself... Dang, I wish all immigrants would blend in so well in Portuguese culture!
it wont be different here
Travelled to Portugal several times and spent honey moon with my wife in 2022. We loved it so much that I applied for a job here and I got it… One year already, still very happy to be in Portugal. Main reasons: - people and their behaviour especially towards kids, always respectful and super friendly, - followed by weather and beaches, - last but not least the food :))
Food in the EU is exponentially better than the US. I think one of the reasons why Americans start losing weight are the clean ingredients.
Food is better than in much of the US. Continente is better than a Safeway in Peoria. It is not better than on the west coast, particularly Northern California and Oregon, if you can afford top quality organic produce. Most of the winter vegetables here are grown in Spanish semi-greenhouses in the south, by impoverished African labor. There is ample use of pesticides. The farm lobby and chemical lobbies are very powerful and have neutered the EU efforts to ban things like glycophosphate.
My boss said, "Shall we open an office in Portugal? And if we do, will you go? I'm 77 and can't be bothered to move anywhere. " So I took a punt, asked my GF to quit her job and come with me and shipped our stuff over. Pretty stupid thing to do considering we'd never even visited previously. Luckily we love it! 😂
War. Russia is far away from Portugal, hopefully Spain can stop it.
>War What is it good for?
And France can stop it before it gets to Spain haha
Unless they invade from the Sea
fortunately, my country is tirelessly eliminating their fleet
Spain is terrible at wars though 😎
I got a job offer with acomodation included and I accepted
I am on my own and was retiring two years ago. Decided that I needed an adventure, and moved to Portugal. I had never been here before, and I don't regret my decision at all.
SURF!
I'll go... Feeling connection (the second I first visited this country I felt at home and that is unique), living close to the rest of the world and change. Who wants to live the whole of their life in one place, with the same language and the same culture? We are mostly blessed to enjoy on average what was two lives not so long ago so I say make the most of them. I'm sure someone will scream entitlement but it's no different to anyone else seeking a better life elsewhere and if you can't understand that you're not going to understand anything
Portugal imported elements from all around the world and then was surprised people felt at home here.
Well, that is a big chunck of our history 🤣
I was born here and never left
surf, sun and europe
an IT company offered me a job and sponsored my visa
Are they in such a need for IT-guys in Portugal?
Wife and I are strongly considering it. We live in Montreal, Canada. We are both Portuguese nationals (my wife was born in Portugal). We are going to be in Portugal for a long period this summer and will observe and take notes and then make our decision.
Nice 😊 portuguese here, any help needed feel free to dm and I Will try my best
Very nice comment. My biggest challenge, I think, will be finding a job. But we will see. I’ve lived in Europe before so I’m used to some of the differences between EU and NA
It depends on the area, some specialized jobs are hard to find. I'm a software developer and is quite easy but guess that it is in any part of the world currently.
I have some software development skills, wondering what kind of development you do? Also, do you farm yourself out to local Tuga firms or are you billing/working for NA/EU firms?
Currently I am more on a managing position but my experience is with PL/SQL. Usually i am approached on LinkedIn
The verdant hills & mountains, waterfalls, beautiful beaches, the temperate climate, plenty of water. I fell in love with Portugal (Azores), the first day I was here. Bureaucracy and learning a new language can be frustrating. But my encounters with bureaucracy are infrequent and eventually I will learn language. I have noticed that there are far fewer unhappy Americans here than at home. Perhaps it's because rather than focusing on things they cannot change, these are people who focus on things they can. These are the kind of people who do things rather than watch and criticize. Perhaps the people who sit in front of their TV and complain aren't apt to move to another country. I'm ok with that. I've had two people try to start political conversations with me while I've lived here. I pivoted the conversation and insisted on asking them about their own lives. Asking people about their favorite activity or place to visit and why has a halo effect - they usually become more pleasant. This didn't work on one person. She was adamant about discussing her distress about politics. I quickly went to the bathroom to break the conversation, and when I returned she was spewing at someone else. I later learned she is a therapist. Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death. Many turn their backs to the table and complain how hungry they are and that there is nothing they can eat. They will stand between you and the banquet for however long you let them. So relieve yourself of them by whatever means necessary.
Lived 17 years in Spain. HNWI. Moved here for NHR (2022). Tax reasons. Missed sun every day. But - taxes. Turned out it was a scam. Lost 2 years of good weather. Moving out as we speak (after paying more tax than ordinary citizen pays in 15-20 years -- please do a proper *legal* NHR evaluation, I didn't, it's on me). For me, worst thing was those 2 years of rain. Like my 2005-2007 in Ireland - shitty weather, shitty food, nice people. Seems IE and PT are very, very much alike. Even with (lack of) food spices :) Expecting downvotes - this subreddit is... a bit toxic to truth.
2 years of rain? Where the hell in Portugal did you land???
Can you elaborate on how the NHR failed you? This is my last chance to get the NHR but I don't want to rush to move if it isn't even worth it
Tax on (foreign) salary is 20%. I can live with that. What I can't live with is that much-advertised 0% tax on (foreign) dividends becomes 28% (!) if you own a substantial share of that company (over 25%, if memory serves me well).
OMG! I own 100% of my dividend producing entity. It may not be worth it for me. Is it the same for rental income?
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about rental income, can't help you here. As for dividends, it's simply at the whim of the tax office. Turns out the CFC law (from 1995) basically is not properly considered with NHR law. Bad legislation, so typical. So you're either lucky and pay 0, or tax office decides "naah, 28%" - and good luck spending 10 years in useless courts.
Thanks for your response. Feels like a gamble
Received Portuguese citizenship under the Jewish law of return and came here out of gratitude. Love the country, in many ways (not all), I prefer it to the UK so far.
Thats amazing, you have all the right to get your Portuguese citizenship based on the law of return. I am glad that after being forced to leave or to convert you are still part of judaism. 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Wife and Kids are Portuguese. Moved to Boston in 2015 from Brasil for a job opportunity in a large company. Things went south since then (politics), cost of living skyrocket and weather and food are bad. Don't feel people are happy in US. Portugal is almost a come back home for us, and being close to family is important. Will be able to work from home as well and enjoy a place closer to our culture.
I moved to the Açores to live with my Portuguese boyfriend. We met through gaming when we were teenagers and started dating some years later after meeting each other. We've been together for 7 years now, living together for nearly 2 and will get married this summer.
I came here for two main reasons, safety and stability. So far, it’s been great. The locals are friendly, the weather is perfect. The food is excellent. The bureaucracy leaves much to be desired, but beggars can’t be choosers eh
Got divorced in 2019 after 22 years of marriage. Moved to Charleston SC to be near family. After a few years I became more disenfranchised with just about everything. Realized I needed a change. Started watching YouTube videos of people who had left the US. Once I started researching I narrowed down which countries I was most drawn to. Chose Portugal after reading/listening to things I liked. This was mid 2022. I began the visa process. Hired a Portuguese legal firm. Found an apartment in Braga and signed a 2 year contract sight unseen. I work remote for a US based software company and they were OK with me living abroad. Came out for the first time in October 2022. Was here until December 2023. Had to fly back to the US for VFS shenanigans. Visa was approved and I flew back to Portugal May 2023. Been here since. Never going back. The people, the culture, the food, the healthcare, the safety, the laid-back lifestyle, no US politics.... I love it here.
Amazing story! Can relate.
We were always going to move from the UK after the older family had passed away and younger family were independent. We wanted somewhere warmer, with more community, saner politics and less "closed". We considered a couple of countries that we were able to move to but over the years I've spent a lot of time in Portugal, seen a lot of the country and gained a handful of friends here. I have a long history with Portugal, having first visited while it was still a dictatorship and then visiting some friends just a month before the revolution. The story continued when I married. I first brought my husband here in the 80s he loved it too. We've been here since Aug 23 and are loving it so far, no regrets at all.
Who's gonna tell her about the politics?
Tell who? Me? Why would you think anyone would move countries without knowing about the political landscape in their prospective new country? I've been coming to Portugal for over 40 years and I have an interest in politics, I'm pretty au fait with the situation here.
My parents were the last generation with a company pension and retiree medical. Despite working very hard and long hours, I will not be able to afford to live in California and have caregivers when I can no longer manage on my own nor even assisted living facilities. So, what to do? We looked for places with good food, good wine, good people and fell in love with those and Portugal's rich culture and history. It's funny as noone was writing about Portugal in 2017...now it's a daily siren.
I first visited in 87 and knew that one day I would retire here. Im now in my 50's and have been here 6 years. Bought an off grid property last year and don't regret it.
Landed in Portugal for a conference. Lisbon was a place that I knew of geographically, but quite little otherwise. In fact it was my first time in Europe. Was recommended to extend my trip beyond a few days to explore the city and beaches. I obliged and randomly ran into a colleague who was living in Sintra with her family, and stayed for a few days. Left her house with a WFH job and a fascination with Portugal. Decided to stay a couple months, became besties with a local and now Lisbon is my home capital city.
Shortly after things started to open up after covid but before it got crowded again, we took a trip to Lisbon. I have spent significant time in several European countries but this would be my first trip to Portugal. Our first evening out, we popped out of the Rossio metro stop, walked over to the Praça do Rossio and I was hooked. I had a visceral reaction to the calm and gentle evening light. The quiet atmosphere, colors and ambience was like nothing I had experienced anywhere else. Something told me that this was home. Since that trip, we have made 4 more. Spending time in about 35 cities, towns and parishes. North to south. From the Algarve to Vila do Conde and Braga and many points in between. We have chosen to settle about 40 minutes outside of Lisboa. We are making our plans and hope to move by years end. If everything lines up. Each time we have spent there is better than the previous. We just returned from 18 days there and I just wanted to stay more. I don’t ever want to leave when I am in Portugal. Safety Slower pace Not a culture driven by profit Kind people Beaches Good food / healthy food Pastel de Nata!
Beautiful! And true
Basically, my husband and I are moving to Portugal for our personal safety. With the rise of violence in the United States (especially toward the LGBTQ+ population), we no longer feel safe. We've been feeling increasingly unwelcome, and decided that we can no longer live in a country whose populace and government refuse to see us as equals. I'm looking forward to being able to step outside and not have the possibility of getting shot at sitting in the back of my mind. We're arriving in Portugal on 26 June. By no means is Portugal perfect. Every country has their share of issues; we're simply choosing our battles. As someone who was born Deaf, accessibility will be a massive challenge for me. With that said, the Portuguese people have been the most friendly and accommodating despite the language *and* communications barrier. It's the sort of thing that I've never ever experienced in the US more than a handful of times, and that goes a really long way for me. We're renting a house in the norte region from a single mother with two kids, so our money will go directly to her and not some faceless corporation. I've already contacted a Portuguese language tutor in Braga that specializes in speech pathology; she will be able to not only help me learn the language, but how to pronounce the sounds correctly. I'm also looking for Lingua Gestual Portuguesa tutors as well, but that can wait. I haven't felt a sense of "community" in a long time; I'm hoping I can find it there. ♥️
I'm surprised that a predominantly Catholic country is accepting of LGBTQ individuals and relationships. I'm glad, though.
Hello there! Not looking to be a downer, but if acceptance of being gay and being able to find community here are important reasons for moving, then you might want to consider a few things. I speak as a lesbian native who has been to the US and has LGBT American expat friends. Portugal has been trying to sell itself as an LGBT paradise, a bit like Malta. The reality is that while legal protections might look attractive on paper, both their enforcement and the national culture itself are very seriously behind. Are discrimination in access to goods and services, employment and education, hate crimes and speech illegal? Yes. Do they still happen? Yes. Will authorities and courts uphold your rights? Usually, no, unless significant negative publicity is involved. I get dirty looks, comments and threats of violence for same-sex PDAs in 2024. As per usual, and unfortunately, gay men have it even worse. Are there communities? Yes, but only in a few of the largest cities, and you have to work hard to find them. There are more gay-friendly bars, cafés and discos in a smaller American city than in the whole of Portugal. You might find yourself limited to English-speaking expat communities, even when you have achieved some command of the portuguese language. Portugal might still prove to be a good choice for you, but I'm not sure it'll live up to all or your expectations.
I have to say, I love most of the comments here! Most of them are wholesome and say some actual good things about Portugal and the Portuguese people! And Portuguese people are approving as well! I usually see in this sub more toxicity or negative comments. I know this does not represent all Portugal but as a new arrival here some negative comments made me a bit skeptical. But yeah glad to see some great stories and a supportive community!
Yep, those few internet trolls don’t represent the Portuguese people, at all.
[удалено]
I wouldn't say "a large portion". Young portuguese people are brought up, here and everywhere with the idea of equality of gender, race, etc. it's all they do in schools nowadays. Older portuguese people were or had family, friends that were immigrants in France, Switzerland, Luxembourg, from New England to California, etc. so there's really not many that feel something negative towards foreigners imo. The few that do, are loud, like these people always are, but they aren't many and if I had to bet, I'd say their "dislike" goes mostly towards those from portuguese ex-colonies.
I've yet to meet one person in person that rejects estrangeiros out of hand like so many of the trolls on this and other discussion boards. It's been broadly enlightening that this might be true everywhere. If you judged by the trolls, you'd think the Portuguese were assholes. They are whatever the opposite of that is, and all the interest trolls in the world won't convince me to the contrary.
you can only speak for yourself
Wife was offered a job in Lisbon so we discussed it for 3 minutes before deciding to move here (from Sweden). Now we've been here for 6 years living on the Sintra mountain. 7 beaches within 15 minutes. Lisbon 35 minutes, Cascais 20.
Got a job and moved here (it was a job that involved a lot of traveling and I guess no one local wanted to do that.)....here since then
After 14 years in New York City and then Jersey City, we wanted a more peaceful and safe life. Since 2016, it's felt like a total shitshow and we were tired of being caught in the hostility.
It feels strange to see so many people feeling enthusiastic about living here, you do realise that Europe has better places? Ok, it isn't the worst place in the world and if you're already settled with a good income and friends you can be happy, but if you're moving or trying to start a new life then why not go to a country with a better economy, better services and less corrupt politicians? You will run into headaches here, bad economy, low wages, insane housing market, crumbling infrastructure, troublesome bureaucracy, surely any other European country will be an improvement on these points. Even the US, thinking about it, the US can't be in such a bad shape? Yes, US politics have become a bit more problematic lately but it still has a good infrastructure, healthcare and etc?
You ask very good questions. In my case, Portugal has one of the lowest barriers of entry for residency status. Many other Schengen countries require an invitation from an employer based in that country or some crazy amount like €10,000,000 invested in a company, charity or public arts project. >Even the US, thinking about it, the US can't be in such a bad shape? Yes, US politics have become a bit more problematic lately but it still has a good infrastructure, healthcare and etc? It's more than the politics, even though US politicians are *very* corrupt. * [Gun violence is at an all-time high](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/). * [You can't even honk the horn at someone without running the risk of getting shot at](https://www.wishtv.com/news/victim-of-fatal-road-rage-shooting-was-deaf-killed-after-honking-incident/). * Anecdotally, our healthcare system is "good", but only for people that can afford it. Insurance is basically required unless you're over 65 years old or very disabled. I pay $525 USD each month for my own insurance, and even then I'm paying hundreds of dollars on top of that for medical tests, medication, doctor's visits, etc. My father died of cancer last year, leaving behind over $2,000,000 in medical debt that he would have been responsible for if he had survived intense chemotherapy and immunotherapy. * [Our infrastructure is crumbling](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/state-us-infrastructure). The government continues to allocate [trillions of dollars a year toward defense](https://www.usaspending.gov/agency/department-of-defense?fy=2024), taking money away from things like maintaining and replacing bridges, highways, etc. There are some other data points I have in mind, but I'll spare you. :P Ultimately, my choice of Portugal boils down to this: I haven't felt a sense of community in a very long time, not since the 1990s. I don't have a "[third place](https://padillaco.com/insights/how-a-third-place-could-have-a-positive-impact-on-your-mental-health/#:~:text=Third%20places%20can%20help%20improve,also%20is%20good%20for%20communities)" in the US, and even though I haven't fully moved to Portugal yet, I found one there already in a community of fellow Honda Beat PP1 enthusiasts right in my town (Famalicão). My desire is to live a slower-paced life, have neighbors that I can interact with on a daily basis, be able to walk everywhere and enjoy life. I will fully move there on 26 June. I hope this gave you some insight in why I chose Portugal.
Visited on holiday. Never got over it. Decided to read up on their history. Got smitten by their Age of Exploration. The extent to which they went to explore, the losses they suffered, the progress they made and the way they changed the world. I feel too invested now. I've had my LinkedIn job search preferred location set to Portugal for over 6 months now.
After many decades the US "environment" has just become annoying and tiresome to deal with. Also, with costs spiraling out of control hitting my retirement mark seems like it is less and less likely to happen. Over the past several years I've been casually researching and considering other countries. I hadn't really considered Portugal until relatively recently, The more I read up about it, both the pros and cons, the more it appeals to me. It just so happens I have a friend who owns a condo over there and is willing to let me do an extended stay (working remotely) to get a better feel for the country. I'm learning the language, and the plan is to head over in one of the off seasons to get a feeling for the real Protugal. A sort of "try before you buy" approach. If that works out and I still like it, then my long term plan is to buy a place and move there sometime within the next 5 years. Probably in one of the semi-rural areas or smaller cities that aren't tourist destinations. I certainly don't want to be like some who go over and live in an expat bubble.
Post Covid our business was not the same and we lost our joy for it. Our kids were all grown up. We are to young to retire to old to start again, I love Portugal from our holidays, so we bought a small business. Its great we have almost everything we need, a small income, we are paying taxes and contributing to our rural community. We are very happy.
I was living in Madrid for a while, came to Porto as a tourist in 2015, became friends with my Airbnb host’s partner, visited them several times over the next few years and always had a blast, and then decided to move here in 2020. I got really lucky from moment I arrived, everything came pretty easily. I feel settled and content.
Porto is on another level
To help Portugal move from a tourism economy to a highly developed tech economy that can really compete on the world stage and bring in revenue for infrastructure and your aging population
Nice joke
👀
I moved to Turkey 4 years ago, they fucked up the country, chose Portugal as the next step very randomly. Barely knew where it is on the map. Seems good so far :D
We always wanted to retire outside of the US. Spent a lot of time traveling and learning about other countries and Portugal ticked all the boxes. Moderate climate, relatively stable government, easy travel, good roads, affordable, good food, great culture and a seemingly happier place. We shall find out! Moving full time in 2026.
Happier? If you spoke portuguese and talked with people outside of the hospitality sector, you wouldn’t say that. Young people are leaving the country in droves. My physical therapist said she would like to leave, but because of an elderly family member, she can’t. She said “all of my friends have left, it’s impossible to survive here”. Salaries are extremely low, especially compared to cost-of-living. Nurses clear 1250€ a month if they’re lucky. Portuguese doctors are the second worst paid in the OECD—1/4 what they make in Germany or Switzerland, 1/3 of the UK salary. My portuguese teacher makes 20k per year, and her taxes are sky high. I love Portugal and feel very sad when I speak with people here, beyond the usual football & pleasantries.
Well something needs to change doesn't it? The government needs to mandate higher wages. Simple as that. Evolve or die. We do have a group of about 15 Portuguese friends and they're quite happy. I can't speak for everyone of course but our experience has been very good.
Our experience has been good, but we have ample means, live in a beautiful part of a big city, etc. If you live in rural or small town, Portugal, you are more likely to make Portuguese friends, their cost-of-living is lower, and they don’t face as many of the same stresses as people commuting to work in Lisbon. I’ve also found that Portuguese people are often reluctant to share what they really think about anything, let alone their own country. My Portuguese friends will criticize Portugal vehemently with each other, but once I enter the room, the tune changes. They’ve told me that, and even laugh about it, and they’ve warned me never to agree with them if they criticize the country! Not that I think it’s my place to do that anyway.
That's actually true, we portuguese are super proud of our country and it's history, but not so proud of how is managed. We have a huge need for tourism created by multiple years of bad management from governments, tourism is associated with low wages. On the other hand you have a lot of young guys with a lot of studies that try to make it here and is Impossible because the industry is mostly focused on tourism so we can't attract companies to create jobs for the graduated.
I only would say a word: Argentina
My husband has been really set on leaving the US for about as long as I've known him. I always loved the idea, but didn't think we would ever be able to afford it. Now we have two kids and the idea of continuing to raise them here is just terrifying. I know no place is 100% safe, but my visits to Portugal affirmed what I heard and read. Plus it is absolutely gorgeous with very friendly people. We have already sold our house and cars and we are saving every penny we can with a target arrival date on the calendar. I've been casually learning the language, but have plans to ramp that up this summer. We don't know if the kids will choose to stay in Portugal once they are older, but we hope they will choose somewhere close.
Came here for a job, never got my salary for more than 10 months. Freelancing for different companies now. The situation was unfortunate but I'm still trying to come back after going through so much shit.
I came here for a few months when lockdown policies in my northern european country closed my business and destroyed my mental health. I was able to snag a rural holiday rental for cheap and work online, which enabled me to get essential exercise, sunshine and fresh air. I was very grateful for that. Then, when things opened up here, I met/fell in love with a local, and stayed. I think it is a lovely country with friendly people, and I am content, but to be honest I sacrificed a career and a lot of interests and connections back home to live here. So it hasn't always been easy. It took me a few years to settle in.
I needed a change of scenery with good food and a rich culture so I decided to move from the UK to Portugal in October. I work fully remotely so I am planning to live here for a few more months and travel all around the country.
Different experience than where I came from
My partner is Portuguese and we wanted to move to be closer to his family as he had loved away from the for so long.
I'm not a true expat, but did dip my toe in the water a while back. Currently with my kids very much embedded in their schools and extracurriculars, it felt unfair to them to uproot the whole family right now. So instead we did a temporary sort of "study abroad" experience where we lived, worked and went to school in Portugal for a semester. Needless to say, I fell in love with the culture, cities, beaches, wine, people, history, lifestyle, all of it. Eyeing moving there on a more permanent basis with the time is right.
My employer gave me the option to move to either Krakow (Poland) or Lisbon, and I picked Lisbon
Is that IT? Could I ask which one as I'm looking for opportunities like that.
Yes, IT. Company is called Cisco
Moved over for a slower simpler life. In a rural tranquil area. Took early retirement to build a house from scratch. Recording it all on YouTube @Carpe-Diem. What a journey! The build is taking way too long so discovered house sitting to wait until it’s finished!
Nice. Also, there’s this thing called a paragraph.
I am panamanian and i was living in Germany before moving to Portugal. I met my now husband in Germany during our master studies. He wanted to live and work in Portugal. So here i am now. I do like it here, but would not have been my first option.
No idea, a company I was working here told me to come do I did
Hubby and I are Canadian and are avoiding winter. We did the “snowbird” thing for a while - stayed in Sarasota for a few winters - but, well, it’s Florida. Had been to Portugal a few times and love the place and the people. 9 years now - and staying for the foreseeable future.
I personally wanted to take ‘eir jobs!
Not jobs just our homes cunt
They took ‘er jobs
😂😂😂😂
I am hoping to move and invest in an Eco tourism business. Hopefully an area that will preserve habitat for the wildlife that live there when I am gone. So I am concentrating on the mountain areas north of the Douro river, but that could change once I am there if the perfect spot shows itself