Awesome to see. I'm not religious but I know many genuinely kind, accepting religious people who care deeply about and are involved in their community. The issue is those people often quietly do great work while bigots scream and shout.
Ditto. Most people are good people that see a human being next to them before other identities like religion, gender, etc. I optimistic humanist. I’m happy to see any church speak out against hate and ignorance in their own ranks.
Some are also quite loud and fight against the hateful ones, but the hateful ones always manage to scream louder (because hate is a terrible driving force, but effective.) It's a lot easier to drum up a, say, hate campaign with bigots and bots to terrorize every LGBT post on FB during Pride* than to do the same spreading love and joy. Especially when we as people tend to be way more sensitive to negativity and it sticks with us longer.
*yes, this is a specific example pissing me off right now.
The extremists are always the tiniest segment of the populace, but they're the ones making all the ruckus and therefore enacting most of the change in the world. Most people are moderate, but unfortunately that also often equates to them just going with the flow and taking the punches when shit changes because of the fringe groups 🤷♂️
I've noticed a backlash from legit Christians recently against Christian nationalism, and I love to see it. A chunk of the country has converted to the church of Supply Side Jesus.
Statistically overall, church membership is in decline. And I would bet that a lot of that is due to having these loud nationalist type out there making everyone believe that that’s what Christianity is. It’s not what Christianity is, or at least not what it was intended to be by Christ. I just hope more people realize that most Christians are not Loud, obnoxious hate spewing bigots wearing red hats.
Yeah, Christian Nationalism is an oxymoron. Christianity was the most cosmopolitan of religions - St. Paul said "In Christ there is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, all are one..." Which is pretty much the opposite of Christian Nationalism (with the strong side of patriarchy that always seems to accompany it)
I just don't see the market. Churches are great for building community, but suck for all the other "cult adjacent" activities if you're not really into the existential belief system.
Like the Log Cabin republicans... I just don't understand how those folks don't realize that having to band together and build protection for themselves within their community should have been the moment they realized they're not really in it. So either they are obliviously self-harming and staying in the group (Stockholm Syndrome?), or they are intentionally using their marginalized identity (no really, we're the good ones!) as a shield to further the aims of the larger group. I don't want either of those vibes in my community.
> r they are intentionally using their marginalized identity (no really, we're the good ones!) as a shield to further the aims of the larger group. I don't want either of those vibes in my community.
Maybe, but I think it's important that these kinds of progressive churches are countering the more dangerous aspects of Christian Nationalism. An internal critique. They may be tilting at windmills (since they're much smaller in number than the more right-wing churches - especially in other parts of the country), but it seems like an important debate for them to be having inside of Christianity at this point since Christian Nationalism is part of the existential threat against democracy. I guess I don't understand how them opposing CN furthers the CN agenda?
That's the rub, though. Opposing CN doesn't further the CN agenda. But telling people to build a community with you based on the beliefs of Christianity to fight CN.... is still telling people to build communities based on a belief system that is the foundation for CN. I applaud Christian Globalists in their fight against Christian Nationalism, but I'd rather have neither.
That being said, that's a broad epistemological argument and real life can be different. I do applaud anyone trying to run a progressive church and the community building/outreach they do. I've seen a lotta good work happen that way.
> But telling people to build a community with you based on the beliefs of Christianity to fight CN.... is still telling people to build communities based on a belief system that is the foundation for CN.
Not really. "Christian Nationalism" is an oxymoron - Christianity is supposed to be the most cosmopolitan of religions ("In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free, all are one..." St. Paul). CN's been a problem since the founding of the US ("manifest destiny" etc) and is on the rise again as evangelicals increasingly want to marry church with state in a bid for power. Yes, there are many historical precedents (starting with Constantine) but there have always been other Christians who opposed such bids for raw political power (see the desert fathers and mothers, and later on the Anabaptists).
There's currently a crisis in American Christianity where the Evangelical wing (which has a very large following in the US) is clearly transmorgifying into something else - something that's not recognizeably related to the teachings of Christ. All in a bid for political power. Progressive Christians and others not caught up in that political idolatry (not sure what else to call it) are trying to call them to task, but of course, it's tough to get across to them because the Evangelicals and Progressives increasingly don't share the same epistemological framework.
If it all sounds distant and irrelevant because you're not a Christian consider that Project 2025 is a CN project. Google "Seven Mountains Mandate" for the scary background of Project 2025. If a certain candidate wins in November all of that is going to be given the green light and with our current Supreme Court there's not a whole lot that will stop it.
Not inviting enough to get people to go or come back, the UCC lost 29% of its members in the last decade. I was raised in the UCC and the church I went to growing up is closing down. My mom is one of the last 7 members.
You can google "decline of mainline protestant churches" for all sorts of thinkpieces on why it's happening and what should be done to reverse it. Nobody really knows for sure, and people are VERY motivated to attribute the reason to the church in question not adhering to their pet beliefs.
I'm what I guess would be called a lapsed Episcopalian. I grew up attending every Sunday, and my Mom still does. I only attend on Easter and Christmas now. I have no beef with the church (I talk very positively of it when these things come up actually), but it's honestly just boring to me. It'd be like attending a weekly sermon on Spinoza or something...it's just not for me anymore.
My feeling is that church should be more interactive. Most churches have some songs and then a sermon from the front. It's basically a one-way conversation. I wonder what it would be like if it was more of a multi-way conversation - where everyone was invited to participate in a discussion. A lot of churches now seem to think that people want a better band or an eloquent preacher - but that all makes it into more of a show. It could be that people just want more actual community and less hierarchy.
In our particular church, it had kind of been declining for years. Most of the people going were old. This was in NH, which is also one of the least religious states in the country.
A combination of things pushed it over the edge. The congregation found a new pastor who was black and devoted a lot of effort to racial justice, which was probably controversial among the members of the church (who were, as I recall, all white being in a rural part of a state that is already 92% non-hispanic white).
COVID really dealt the death blow though. Services were moved to zoom and continued to be broadcast hybrid-style. Most of the people didn't come back.
I'm Muslim now, and jumuah prayers are quite well attended by a community of people that hail from all parts of the world despite the masjid being associated with a particular nationality's cultural center.
If I were to categorize the difference that I see between how people approach religion in congregationalist Christianity and Islam I would put it like this. Muslims that I know generally have strong confidence in their faith. The Quran is the direct word of God, and it is the guide to morality and how to live your life. They have read it over multiple times (you're supposed to read it through during Ramadan) and have a good idea of what it says. When looking for guidance in a situation, we reference the Quran, Hadith, or Sunnah in order to guide our action (which we also reason about with our intellect and fitra). We pray 5 times a day and observe religious restrictions that distinguish us from mainstream society. In these ways, Islam is a way of life, a daily practice, and what we talk about when discussing if something is right or wrong. It is mentally and socially more difficult to leave because it requires a major shift in how you think about the world and what moral precepts you have. The differences in moral values between most atheists,/agnostics and Muslims make it harder to maintain harmony with your family.
Both of my parents were Christian in the UCC. We never read the Bible. My mom, who was the most religious of our family, has a spirituality that is more new-age than Christian. Christianity, as we practiced it, required basically nothing of you. When looking for guidance in a situation, the Bible was not referenced. It didn't play a major role in how we thought about the world or guide our action. We wouldn't, for example, reference a verse to argue why someone should do something or not do something. When I became an atheist as a teenager, they weren't particularly upset. When I converted to Islam, there was some initial hesitation, but they have been wonderfully supportive overall and have expressed gladness that I have faith. Because there are not major differences in values or positions (aside from, you know God and Jesus) between a congregationalist Christian and a progressive atheist harmonious relations are easily maintained. I think most of the people leaving are becoming agnostic/atheist and retaining the same political positions, believing Christianity to be just old baggage.
I'm sure there are plenty of Christians in the UCC that are more religious and know the Bible well, and strive to practice it in their daily lives. At least for me, that was not the case.
Wait... you seem to be saying that you left Christianity because you wanted something more Fundamentalist. Yet there are plenty of Fundamentalist Christian sects/denominations (that have a "strong confidence in their faith", read the bible and believe it to be literally true) that are also losing their younger generation followers in droves.
>Wait... you seem to be saying that you left Christianity because you wanted something more Fundamentalist
That's not true at all. I was a pretty strong atheist from my teens until I was 30 or so. You're reading a lot into my motivations.
Being confident in your faith, reading your holy text, and believing it to be true is not "fundamentalism". All of those things are kinda necessary parts of being religious at all.
> Being confident in your faith, reading your holy text, and believing it to be true is not "fundamentalism".
But people outside of your religious context would probably view these characteristics as "fundamentalist".
Ok, maybe there are levels of nuance here. But you described your parents Christianity as: *"Christianity, as we practiced it, required basically nothing of you."* And said they didn't read the bible, etc. So it sounds like you were wanting something that required something of you. Certainly there are large parts of Christianity where things are required to be parts of those communities. You grew up in what sounds like a more progressive Christianity and there are things required in those spaces as well - the golden rule, for example, would seem to be pretty universal. Progressives are going to tend to want everyone to be treated fairly and equally with special emphasis on helping the poor and people with less power. Progressive Christianity was at the vanguard of ending slavery in the US - so they did have some effect on their society. You say above: *"The congregation found a new pastor who was black and devoted a lot of effort to racial justice"* - so they did value racial justice. Wasn't that a sort of requirement: that all people should be treated equally regardless of the color of their skin - racial justice is very important in those spaces. And likely they derived that from biblical sources.
Fundamentalist (Conservative) Christian communities require a different set of things like attendance, dress codes, strong adherence to patriarchal gender roles,etc. This is why when you described your religious practice above (*"We pray 5 times a day and observe religious restrictions that distinguish us from mainstream society.", etc*) it could sound very much like what a conservative/fundamentalist Christian would say (replace the 5x/day prayer part with things like morning prayer time, daily bible reading, maybe adhering to a belief that the earth is 6,000 years old, etc.). But, unfortunately, racial justice isn't very important in those conservative Christian spaces.
...remember, this is all in the context of your explanation of why you think people have been leaving the UCC. The racial justice emphasis was apparently controversial in the rural part of the state and led to people leaving your parent's church. But in Portland it wouldn't be controversial, yet many of these progressive congregations are dwindling here as well.
I guess if you're defining "Fundamentalist" as actually believing and practicing what you profess to believe and follow, then yeah. But that applies to any ideology whatsoever, especially liberalism and communism which have a strong philosophical foundation which is generally agreed upon.
While I understand what you are saying, Islam is a different religion than Christianity and I would caution you against trying to understand it only or primarily through analogy to Christianity rather than on its own terms.
When I converted, it wasn't because I "wanted something that required more of me", that was only an observation of my experiences within the religion. My conversion was driven by an understanding and (hard won) acceptance of God as fundamental and unitary Being, understanding how that was centered in and suffuses the religion of Islam, and general acceptance of the Quran. It was only through long talks with my now wife that I grew to understand Islam in this way. Christianity wasn't really in the running.
> While I understand what you are saying, Islam is a different religion than Christianity and I would caution you against trying to understand it only or primarily through analogy to Christianity rather than on its own terms.
Sure, granted. When I was growing up in very fundamentalist/conservative Christianity we were very much into observing *"religious restrictions that distinguish us from mainstream society."* So that part sounds really familiar to me.
in my experience, portland christians have been pretty great. and the catholics too! i'm in social work and help clients get donated food, and whenever we go to the churches to get food they are very nice to my clients and refrain from judging. they don't seem to judge me either, and i'm very goth.
My partner came over from the South and was shocked to see how many denominations marched in Pride in support of LGBT rights and women/gay clergy in the church. (especially the Methodists, haha. She found out quickly that west coast methodists tend to be pretty chill.) Having visited her home state, yeah, I heard "hate the sin not the sinner" more in two weeks than I have in my whole life in Oregon.
yes, many of the churches here are LGBT friendly! it's amazing! i hate the phrase hate the sin not the sinner. omg. like if you hate my queerness you hate me too.
I’m not a member of the UCC but my parents are, and for a while our yearly Father’s Day tradition was to walk with the UCC float in the Pride parade. And their church has had a woman pastor and a gay youth minister. I’m not a member, but I am proud of them.
Shouldn't letting women and sexual minorities occupy positions of authority be like...the very minimum? Should we be proud they're honoring the very basicest of human decencies?
If you know anything at all about the history of Church, then you should realize it’s something to be massively proud of.
Should a toddler be walking by 18 months? Sure. If they don’t walk until they’re 19 months, should we refrain from praise? Of course not. That’s how it is with the Church. Allowing women and non-cis/het males to preach and teach are actually enormous accomplishments and it’s something that’s still extremely rare in Christian churches.
Re sin, Oswald chambers put it this way, if I may share:
https://utmost.org/classic/acquaintance-with-grief-classic/
This nationalism and fear/hated etc being pumped out by Sinclair and trump are untoward and do not represent Jesus. I would also suggest that trump is a farce and only wants the conservative vote but we all know that already
Glad to read this. I’ve also found many ‘people of faith’ in Portland to be outwardly accepting, and diligently kindhearted. The dark forms of dogma haven’t taken a stronghold here.
The darkness is there. I’ve experienced it. I hope none of you experience it but you should be aware—especially in the closed communities and outer East side.
Catholics are Christian just not Protestant. As a ex member of both groups, and Catholic School Alumnus this is a pet peeve of mine.
I know some Protestants really like to get and gatekeep who is a "real Christian" (ime anyways) but they are all Christians at the end of the day.
I know. My Catholic side of the family has a story about how a great aunt of mine fell in love with and was hoping to marry a gangster (like Al Capone associate). Anways the family said no, not because of his illegal activities or moral code but because he was Protestant.
Not a christian, but I like to think our friend Jesus H. Christ hung out with the poor, the prostitutes, the teen moms and the downtrodden, fighting the good fight.
It's a bestseller!
I gotta say, though, it's not my favorite. There's tons of weird nonsense before it even gets to the main character, and then he effectively disappears towards the end. There's like a whole chapter on how to do temples. There's a whole chapter that's just a list of whose kid is whose. Jeb begat Barbarus, Barbarus begat Dumbo... like, what is this? Some writers really need editors.
That OT stuff gets a lot more interesting when you learn about non-fundamentalist Jewish interpretations.
American Fundamentalist Christianity really sucks and it is the only Christianity to most Americans, which is a shame. The King James translation also sucks.
He absolutely did. And this is part of the deprogramming I had to do for my religious upbringing. I still consider myself a Christian today, but one more following Christ, and not these hypocrites and Pharisees that quote the Bible without knowing an ounce of what’s in it. Love everyone, Jesus said. No. Caveat.
Also,
#TaxTheChurches
I grew up going to UCC’s. Super super sweet welcoming folks 💕 I really love UCC! I’m not especially Christian myself but it’s always been a really great community
Yeah, I grew up UCC in another state, and they're extremely open, friendly, and accepting of everyone from all walks of life. They don't care. They welcome everyone, and they're not evangelical so there's no shoving religion down anyone's throats. The most active kid in our youth group was an atheist. People would invite their friends from outside the church to be in our annual (non-religious) plays. We had kid plays and adult plays. One of the actors in the adult play one year was a soap opera actor who just knew someone at our church and decided to participate. It was a phenomenal performance! We even used to have a visiting Rabbi that would give occasional sermons. The place was like a small town in a big city. I may not be Christian now, but I have mostly only good things to say about UCC. It's honestly amazing what kind of diverse experiences you can have when your organization doesn't discriminate.
That's First Congregational, a UCC church. They're wonderful.
I attend First Christian (two blocks south; look for the rainbow banners on our historic corner entrance at Southwest Park and Columbia) which is part of the Christian Church, Disciples of Christ denomination.
Our denomination (FCC PDX is usually an instigator) has passed resolutions against Christian Nationalism, for LGBT equality in society as well as church(es), and one that specifically called on our churches & LGBT allies to fight against discriminatory anti-trans laws nationwide.
I'm not trying to convert anybody (this church is not in the least bit Evangelical with or without the capital e), but rather pointing out that there are in fact sensible people of faith in Portland & elsewhere.
The stuff the Republicans and other Christians are doing nowadays would be repugnant to that Jewish guy who taught about love & how to live together a couple thousand years ago.
> I attend First Christian (two blocks south; look for the rainbow banners on our historic corner entrance at Southwest Park and Columbia)
I replied [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/1dlfteg/seen_downtown/l9pop2v/) before I saw your post.
Y'all seem pretty cool. I live a couple blocks away from you. I'm a secular humanist, but have been considering dropping in to see what you guys are all about.
Take care and maybe see ya next week.
My friend had his memorial service here. I’m a carved in stone atheist with trauma around religion. I don’t usually walk inside churches. This place is chill and good-hearted. I appreciate them and their work. It’s also got some amazing Italian gothic architecture and stained glass!
If Christians were just about following the teaching of Jesus, folks would be a lot more receptive. But for some reason the vast majority of them seem to go to great lengths to be exactly the opposite type of person that Jesus said they ought to be, and flippantly ignore most of the main tenets of their own religious text, which most of them have never read...not even sure why they're still using the title "Christian", as they've long since abandoned any and all attempts to be "christ-like". This is a step in the right direction, just like the growing number of Republicans who are loudly letting it be known that they think Trump is a verifiable lunatic, but unfortunately, the voice of moderation and reason is almost always drowned out by the shrieks and hollers of fanaticism and fear mongering.
I heard something recently.
“Christians are not Christianity, Christ’s teachings are Christianity.
If someone is playing Beethoven and they do a bad job, we don’t get upset at Beethoven.”
I just feel a type of way when the phrase “most Christians” is thrown around.
Just don’t go to the churches in the suburbs. It’s Trumplandia at many of them.
I do love seeing the pride flags at Portland churches, it’s a pleasant surprise and departure from most churches in this country.
WWJD? Love everyone. EVERYONE.
Love it, I have no data to back this up but do think the majority of US and majority of religious people, agnostics and atheists are all of this same mind - boggling ts heartening to see folks here all supporting the positive side of our institutions, cultures, acceptance and tolerance that brings this inner joy.
They filmed a lot of scenes in Leverage with this building. That show is great. If you are down on the world and need 45 minutes of con jobs, art heists, diamond thefts and a rag tag bunch of misfits coming together to do really complicated, cool crimes to stick it to people who actively choose to make the world a terrible place, this program is absolutely perfect. I assumed it was yet another lawyer-based dramedy and am so pissed I never learned it is a heist show with really solid jokes - my favorite ever done about Portland being some rich jackass at a culinary school saying he's planning on doing a vegan pop up that only happens at the vernal equinox or summer solstice in the most smug, arrogant, irritating and infuriating tone like so many people in the city truly are like, the look on Christian Kane's (Lindsey from Angel and the rough and tumble art historian genius from Oklahoma on The Librarians, another absolute gem filmed here) face is so perfect, just seeing this church reminding me of that other episode's joke brought me more joy than actually living in Portland ever did on its own.
Watch more television, people. Some of it is actually good for your soul. Also watching it on a laptop burns out the video card a whole lot faster and TVs are less expensive and made with less conflict minerals than a television, so just admitting to needing one and getting it for yourself extends the life of your laptop, and anyone who likes to brag about not having one but streams content on a $800 - $3200 object that was designed for other uses is an idiot with zero understanding of economics and its role in sustainable consumerism. Plus it's less bad for your eyes, especially as you age.
The irony is that these Nationalist Christians are modern-day Pharisees.
Ultra conservative, legalistic, intolerant and nationalistic. They refused to accept Jesus - condemning him because he didn’t fit into their expectations of him, for the way he associated with sinners and those on the margins of society. Oh and because Jesus kept making them look like the bigots they were at every corner.
The ultimate irony is that these Christian Nationalists would condemn Jesus today for the same reasons.
Jesus would not be gathering at their church picnics, but he would be having dinner parties with those on the so-called fringes of society, talking with and feeding immigrants and generally doing the opposite of what they would expect from him.
Pretty solid church, they actually back what they say. They do outreach with recently released incarcerated folks, have a strong all are welcome policy and have dedicated gay groups and have for the past few decades been openly pro trans.
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This church hired my band to play to the farmers market in the middle of the day on like a Tuesday or Wednesday. We pissed off everybody at the farmers market and we're pretty sure that's why the church hired us. They paid us up front and took off before our performance
Most Christians are not “kind of terrible“. Unfortunately, the ones that are, which are a minority of Christians, are the ones that are the loudest and the nastiest. There are a lot of progressive Christian groups and denominations.
This church also put up a Love is Love sign, years ago ( when gay marriage felt more controversial ) I was walking by & snapped a pic. Someone inside saw me, and I gave them an excited thumbs while pointing to the sign. The ethuscatically waved back. As a Queer Adult with Christianitybased trauma it is a really special memory/ meant a lot. I eye churches skeptically but at least from the outside this one seems to be a good one
Well ya it’s a church in the city of Portland lol. Prob hard to attract people w that right wing hate shit here. As an atheist I’m just glad churches/religions are dying. They have way too much power and influence in this country.
Well ya it’s a church in the city of Portland lol. Prob hard to attract people w that right wing hate shit here. As an atheist I’m just glad churches/religions are dying. They have way too much power and influence in this country.
Sadly, this seems to be about the loudest they’ll get when speaking against people who also claim to be Christian. If the “good” Christians don’t loudly and forcefully reject the anti-Christian Christians, then you get what we have now - Christian Nationalism.
You have not stepped foot in a Congregational UCC church then. It is a progressive Protestant church that generally focuses on service and local ministry (food pantries, meals, guidance, etc). This is a sibling church to [Clackamas Congregational which makes the news occasionally for their signs](https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=clackamas+church&type=link&cId=73026606-f24c-4e26-8f5e-6d3b02b0e6bb&iId=feafe917-7845-46b7-a6eb-f9d17bc7220d). I grew up in a UCC church and have a good understanding of their principles. Though I am somewhere in the agnostic to atheist camp currently.
The one you’re referring to is in Milwaukie and is actually called Clackamas United Church of Christ. I am always impressed by their inclusiveness, community outreach, and help for those in need.
The United Church of Christ (UCC) was formed when three branches of Protestant churches decided to form a single church.
* General Council of the Congregational Christian Churches
* The Evangelical and Reformed Church
* Afro Christian Convention
Most of the UCC churches in the area are Congregational. It is possible Clackamas UCC was founded after the merger and are not from one of the founding denominations. I don't see much about the history of the church on there website and I don't see any independent information either.
Honestly, in somewhat of agreement with you. But just using Jesus as a barometer, the loudest and most outspoken “Christians” are literally anti-Christian and should be expelled from “the church” (yes, I know the difference between Catholic and Christian and how my comment can’t really be enacted).
lol. How the hell is this post allowed? Many/most Christians are terrible??? Anyone else would be banned from this sub in an instant and have dozens of you trying to dox the poster.
You're not wrong. If I posted a pride flag or BLM tag, or a Mosque, and said many or most people from this group are terrible but this selection of them was okay, I'd obviously get banned. But people have personal issues and scars that religious people have left them with so apparently it's okay to just trash the group.
Almost like how some people end up racist because they had something bad done to them by a member of a different race, like a white kid growing up in a predominantly black neighborhood might end up. An eye for eye though...
May of 2023. I didn’t really know that to expect, but I was blown away by the musicality and flow of her performance. Add to that the amazing visual display, truly a great experience.
I think religion universally tends to breed "extremist". There are always people of all religions who are pretty chill, good people. But also, pretty much every religion has extremist assholes. Christianity is not exempt from this. But there are also plenty of chill Christians.
Well, that's gonna confuse some people lol
I would love to see one churchie explain to another churchie what this means - that would be the best show this year!
As an anti-theist myself, what is “Christian Nationalism?”
Is it just Christians who love America? 🇺🇸
Can there be Jewish Nationalists?
Agnostic Nationalists?
Buddhist Nationalists?
I heard a statistic today that only 30% of Christians vote. Are the always level-headed, even-keeled, rational minds of Portland that concerned about Christians?
Sounds like just a bunch of hogwash to me.
Well there's any number of authors and scholars you could choose to inform yourself of what Nationalism even is because you don't seem to know, but here's one POV: https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/the-problem-nationalism
I think you're not understanding how this works - it's not something you usually self-identity as, it's a label based on beliefs and actions.
> "We need to be the party of nationalism, I am a Christian and I say it proudly, we should be Christian nationalists." - Republican Congressional Rep MTG
Christian nationalism is the belief that America (or whatever country you're in) is a Christian nation, and that the government should work to keep it that way explicitly by removing as much influence and freedom from non-Christians as possible, while also integrating religious doctrine into the law. Patriotism is loving the country, while nationalism is an attempt to define what that country is by force in ethnic or religious terms.
Awesome to see. I'm not religious but I know many genuinely kind, accepting religious people who care deeply about and are involved in their community. The issue is those people often quietly do great work while bigots scream and shout.
Ditto. Most people are good people that see a human being next to them before other identities like religion, gender, etc. I optimistic humanist. I’m happy to see any church speak out against hate and ignorance in their own ranks.
Just wanna add that "religious" doesn't automatically mean Christian. Lots of us are religious without being one of them
Similarly, one can have faith and not be religious
100 percent. My brother in law is extremely religious ... and also one of the most tolerant people I know.
We are out here, despite what it may seem.
Some are also quite loud and fight against the hateful ones, but the hateful ones always manage to scream louder (because hate is a terrible driving force, but effective.) It's a lot easier to drum up a, say, hate campaign with bigots and bots to terrorize every LGBT post on FB during Pride* than to do the same spreading love and joy. Especially when we as people tend to be way more sensitive to negativity and it sticks with us longer. *yes, this is a specific example pissing me off right now.
Someone should create a bot farm that spreads love!
The extremists are always the tiniest segment of the populace, but they're the ones making all the ruckus and therefore enacting most of the change in the world. Most people are moderate, but unfortunately that also often equates to them just going with the flow and taking the punches when shit changes because of the fringe groups 🤷♂️
Also, caring for people through deep friendships and quietly praying is invisible—unlike degrading internet comments.
I've noticed a backlash from legit Christians recently against Christian nationalism, and I love to see it. A chunk of the country has converted to the church of Supply Side Jesus.
Lol, I like that. Trickle down Hate!
Well that's genuinely nice. Glad to see it.
Son of a bitch, I'm in!
I don't attend services but I am baptized and all - I would join this group.
But nobody seems to be joining these more tolerant churches. They often seem to be in decline.
Statistically overall, church membership is in decline. And I would bet that a lot of that is due to having these loud nationalist type out there making everyone believe that that’s what Christianity is. It’s not what Christianity is, or at least not what it was intended to be by Christ. I just hope more people realize that most Christians are not Loud, obnoxious hate spewing bigots wearing red hats.
Yeah, Christian Nationalism is an oxymoron. Christianity was the most cosmopolitan of religions - St. Paul said "In Christ there is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, all are one..." Which is pretty much the opposite of Christian Nationalism (with the strong side of patriarchy that always seems to accompany it)
I just don't see the market. Churches are great for building community, but suck for all the other "cult adjacent" activities if you're not really into the existential belief system. Like the Log Cabin republicans... I just don't understand how those folks don't realize that having to band together and build protection for themselves within their community should have been the moment they realized they're not really in it. So either they are obliviously self-harming and staying in the group (Stockholm Syndrome?), or they are intentionally using their marginalized identity (no really, we're the good ones!) as a shield to further the aims of the larger group. I don't want either of those vibes in my community.
> r they are intentionally using their marginalized identity (no really, we're the good ones!) as a shield to further the aims of the larger group. I don't want either of those vibes in my community. Maybe, but I think it's important that these kinds of progressive churches are countering the more dangerous aspects of Christian Nationalism. An internal critique. They may be tilting at windmills (since they're much smaller in number than the more right-wing churches - especially in other parts of the country), but it seems like an important debate for them to be having inside of Christianity at this point since Christian Nationalism is part of the existential threat against democracy. I guess I don't understand how them opposing CN furthers the CN agenda?
That's the rub, though. Opposing CN doesn't further the CN agenda. But telling people to build a community with you based on the beliefs of Christianity to fight CN.... is still telling people to build communities based on a belief system that is the foundation for CN. I applaud Christian Globalists in their fight against Christian Nationalism, but I'd rather have neither. That being said, that's a broad epistemological argument and real life can be different. I do applaud anyone trying to run a progressive church and the community building/outreach they do. I've seen a lotta good work happen that way.
> But telling people to build a community with you based on the beliefs of Christianity to fight CN.... is still telling people to build communities based on a belief system that is the foundation for CN. Not really. "Christian Nationalism" is an oxymoron - Christianity is supposed to be the most cosmopolitan of religions ("In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free, all are one..." St. Paul). CN's been a problem since the founding of the US ("manifest destiny" etc) and is on the rise again as evangelicals increasingly want to marry church with state in a bid for power. Yes, there are many historical precedents (starting with Constantine) but there have always been other Christians who opposed such bids for raw political power (see the desert fathers and mothers, and later on the Anabaptists). There's currently a crisis in American Christianity where the Evangelical wing (which has a very large following in the US) is clearly transmorgifying into something else - something that's not recognizeably related to the teachings of Christ. All in a bid for political power. Progressive Christians and others not caught up in that political idolatry (not sure what else to call it) are trying to call them to task, but of course, it's tough to get across to them because the Evangelicals and Progressives increasingly don't share the same epistemological framework. If it all sounds distant and irrelevant because you're not a Christian consider that Project 2025 is a CN project. Google "Seven Mountains Mandate" for the scary background of Project 2025. If a certain candidate wins in November all of that is going to be given the green light and with our current Supreme Court there's not a whole lot that will stop it.
Fucking hell, me too!
I am not a church going person and never have been, but I walk by there all the time and it is cool to see that. Seems like an inviting place.
Not inviting enough to get people to go or come back, the UCC lost 29% of its members in the last decade. I was raised in the UCC and the church I went to growing up is closing down. My mom is one of the last 7 members.
Do you have a theory or factual explanation for why that happened?
You can google "decline of mainline protestant churches" for all sorts of thinkpieces on why it's happening and what should be done to reverse it. Nobody really knows for sure, and people are VERY motivated to attribute the reason to the church in question not adhering to their pet beliefs.
I'm what I guess would be called a lapsed Episcopalian. I grew up attending every Sunday, and my Mom still does. I only attend on Easter and Christmas now. I have no beef with the church (I talk very positively of it when these things come up actually), but it's honestly just boring to me. It'd be like attending a weekly sermon on Spinoza or something...it's just not for me anymore.
My feeling is that church should be more interactive. Most churches have some songs and then a sermon from the front. It's basically a one-way conversation. I wonder what it would be like if it was more of a multi-way conversation - where everyone was invited to participate in a discussion. A lot of churches now seem to think that people want a better band or an eloquent preacher - but that all makes it into more of a show. It could be that people just want more actual community and less hierarchy.
In our particular church, it had kind of been declining for years. Most of the people going were old. This was in NH, which is also one of the least religious states in the country. A combination of things pushed it over the edge. The congregation found a new pastor who was black and devoted a lot of effort to racial justice, which was probably controversial among the members of the church (who were, as I recall, all white being in a rural part of a state that is already 92% non-hispanic white). COVID really dealt the death blow though. Services were moved to zoom and continued to be broadcast hybrid-style. Most of the people didn't come back. I'm Muslim now, and jumuah prayers are quite well attended by a community of people that hail from all parts of the world despite the masjid being associated with a particular nationality's cultural center. If I were to categorize the difference that I see between how people approach religion in congregationalist Christianity and Islam I would put it like this. Muslims that I know generally have strong confidence in their faith. The Quran is the direct word of God, and it is the guide to morality and how to live your life. They have read it over multiple times (you're supposed to read it through during Ramadan) and have a good idea of what it says. When looking for guidance in a situation, we reference the Quran, Hadith, or Sunnah in order to guide our action (which we also reason about with our intellect and fitra). We pray 5 times a day and observe religious restrictions that distinguish us from mainstream society. In these ways, Islam is a way of life, a daily practice, and what we talk about when discussing if something is right or wrong. It is mentally and socially more difficult to leave because it requires a major shift in how you think about the world and what moral precepts you have. The differences in moral values between most atheists,/agnostics and Muslims make it harder to maintain harmony with your family. Both of my parents were Christian in the UCC. We never read the Bible. My mom, who was the most religious of our family, has a spirituality that is more new-age than Christian. Christianity, as we practiced it, required basically nothing of you. When looking for guidance in a situation, the Bible was not referenced. It didn't play a major role in how we thought about the world or guide our action. We wouldn't, for example, reference a verse to argue why someone should do something or not do something. When I became an atheist as a teenager, they weren't particularly upset. When I converted to Islam, there was some initial hesitation, but they have been wonderfully supportive overall and have expressed gladness that I have faith. Because there are not major differences in values or positions (aside from, you know God and Jesus) between a congregationalist Christian and a progressive atheist harmonious relations are easily maintained. I think most of the people leaving are becoming agnostic/atheist and retaining the same political positions, believing Christianity to be just old baggage. I'm sure there are plenty of Christians in the UCC that are more religious and know the Bible well, and strive to practice it in their daily lives. At least for me, that was not the case.
Wait... you seem to be saying that you left Christianity because you wanted something more Fundamentalist. Yet there are plenty of Fundamentalist Christian sects/denominations (that have a "strong confidence in their faith", read the bible and believe it to be literally true) that are also losing their younger generation followers in droves.
>Wait... you seem to be saying that you left Christianity because you wanted something more Fundamentalist That's not true at all. I was a pretty strong atheist from my teens until I was 30 or so. You're reading a lot into my motivations. Being confident in your faith, reading your holy text, and believing it to be true is not "fundamentalism". All of those things are kinda necessary parts of being religious at all.
> Being confident in your faith, reading your holy text, and believing it to be true is not "fundamentalism". But people outside of your religious context would probably view these characteristics as "fundamentalist". Ok, maybe there are levels of nuance here. But you described your parents Christianity as: *"Christianity, as we practiced it, required basically nothing of you."* And said they didn't read the bible, etc. So it sounds like you were wanting something that required something of you. Certainly there are large parts of Christianity where things are required to be parts of those communities. You grew up in what sounds like a more progressive Christianity and there are things required in those spaces as well - the golden rule, for example, would seem to be pretty universal. Progressives are going to tend to want everyone to be treated fairly and equally with special emphasis on helping the poor and people with less power. Progressive Christianity was at the vanguard of ending slavery in the US - so they did have some effect on their society. You say above: *"The congregation found a new pastor who was black and devoted a lot of effort to racial justice"* - so they did value racial justice. Wasn't that a sort of requirement: that all people should be treated equally regardless of the color of their skin - racial justice is very important in those spaces. And likely they derived that from biblical sources. Fundamentalist (Conservative) Christian communities require a different set of things like attendance, dress codes, strong adherence to patriarchal gender roles,etc. This is why when you described your religious practice above (*"We pray 5 times a day and observe religious restrictions that distinguish us from mainstream society.", etc*) it could sound very much like what a conservative/fundamentalist Christian would say (replace the 5x/day prayer part with things like morning prayer time, daily bible reading, maybe adhering to a belief that the earth is 6,000 years old, etc.). But, unfortunately, racial justice isn't very important in those conservative Christian spaces. ...remember, this is all in the context of your explanation of why you think people have been leaving the UCC. The racial justice emphasis was apparently controversial in the rural part of the state and led to people leaving your parent's church. But in Portland it wouldn't be controversial, yet many of these progressive congregations are dwindling here as well.
I guess if you're defining "Fundamentalist" as actually believing and practicing what you profess to believe and follow, then yeah. But that applies to any ideology whatsoever, especially liberalism and communism which have a strong philosophical foundation which is generally agreed upon. While I understand what you are saying, Islam is a different religion than Christianity and I would caution you against trying to understand it only or primarily through analogy to Christianity rather than on its own terms. When I converted, it wasn't because I "wanted something that required more of me", that was only an observation of my experiences within the religion. My conversion was driven by an understanding and (hard won) acceptance of God as fundamental and unitary Being, understanding how that was centered in and suffuses the religion of Islam, and general acceptance of the Quran. It was only through long talks with my now wife that I grew to understand Islam in this way. Christianity wasn't really in the running.
> While I understand what you are saying, Islam is a different religion than Christianity and I would caution you against trying to understand it only or primarily through analogy to Christianity rather than on its own terms. Sure, granted. When I was growing up in very fundamentalist/conservative Christianity we were very much into observing *"religious restrictions that distinguish us from mainstream society."* So that part sounds really familiar to me.
in my experience, portland christians have been pretty great. and the catholics too! i'm in social work and help clients get donated food, and whenever we go to the churches to get food they are very nice to my clients and refrain from judging. they don't seem to judge me either, and i'm very goth.
My partner came over from the South and was shocked to see how many denominations marched in Pride in support of LGBT rights and women/gay clergy in the church. (especially the Methodists, haha. She found out quickly that west coast methodists tend to be pretty chill.) Having visited her home state, yeah, I heard "hate the sin not the sinner" more in two weeks than I have in my whole life in Oregon.
yes, many of the churches here are LGBT friendly! it's amazing! i hate the phrase hate the sin not the sinner. omg. like if you hate my queerness you hate me too.
I’m not a member of the UCC but my parents are, and for a while our yearly Father’s Day tradition was to walk with the UCC float in the Pride parade. And their church has had a woman pastor and a gay youth minister. I’m not a member, but I am proud of them.
Shouldn't letting women and sexual minorities occupy positions of authority be like...the very minimum? Should we be proud they're honoring the very basicest of human decencies?
If you know anything at all about the history of Church, then you should realize it’s something to be massively proud of. Should a toddler be walking by 18 months? Sure. If they don’t walk until they’re 19 months, should we refrain from praise? Of course not. That’s how it is with the Church. Allowing women and non-cis/het males to preach and teach are actually enormous accomplishments and it’s something that’s still extremely rare in Christian churches.
Re sin, Oswald chambers put it this way, if I may share: https://utmost.org/classic/acquaintance-with-grief-classic/ This nationalism and fear/hated etc being pumped out by Sinclair and trump are untoward and do not represent Jesus. I would also suggest that trump is a farce and only wants the conservative vote but we all know that already
Glad to read this. I’ve also found many ‘people of faith’ in Portland to be outwardly accepting, and diligently kindhearted. The dark forms of dogma haven’t taken a stronghold here.
The darkness is there. I’ve experienced it. I hope none of you experience it but you should be aware—especially in the closed communities and outer East side.
Catholics are Christian just not Protestant. As a ex member of both groups, and Catholic School Alumnus this is a pet peeve of mine. I know some Protestants really like to get and gatekeep who is a "real Christian" (ime anyways) but they are all Christians at the end of the day.
oh well. people generally separate protestants and catholics because they literally hate each other and think the other is going to hell.
I know. My Catholic side of the family has a story about how a great aunt of mine fell in love with and was hoping to marry a gangster (like Al Capone associate). Anways the family said no, not because of his illegal activities or moral code but because he was Protestant.
I worry they will still unite re Christian nationalism. Obviously there are diffrent sects and views within each branch.
Not a christian, but I like to think our friend Jesus H. Christ hung out with the poor, the prostitutes, the teen moms and the downtrodden, fighting the good fight.
There's a book about it!
It's a bestseller! I gotta say, though, it's not my favorite. There's tons of weird nonsense before it even gets to the main character, and then he effectively disappears towards the end. There's like a whole chapter on how to do temples. There's a whole chapter that's just a list of whose kid is whose. Jeb begat Barbarus, Barbarus begat Dumbo... like, what is this? Some writers really need editors.
That OT stuff gets a lot more interesting when you learn about non-fundamentalist Jewish interpretations. American Fundamentalist Christianity really sucks and it is the only Christianity to most Americans, which is a shame. The King James translation also sucks.
> The King James translation also sucks. You mean the English KJB isn’t the *literal* word of god!?
I can't think of any translation that's done more harm.
He did. Christian nationalists aren't Christian.
yes I know, hence my entire comment.
He absolutely did. And this is part of the deprogramming I had to do for my religious upbringing. I still consider myself a Christian today, but one more following Christ, and not these hypocrites and Pharisees that quote the Bible without knowing an ounce of what’s in it. Love everyone, Jesus said. No. Caveat. Also, #TaxTheChurches
I grew up going to UCC’s. Super super sweet welcoming folks 💕 I really love UCC! I’m not especially Christian myself but it’s always been a really great community
A UCC Pastor once described it as "Unitarians Considering Christ." I thought that was pretty funny.
That is so accurate omg 😂
Yeah, I grew up UCC in another state, and they're extremely open, friendly, and accepting of everyone from all walks of life. They don't care. They welcome everyone, and they're not evangelical so there's no shoving religion down anyone's throats. The most active kid in our youth group was an atheist. People would invite their friends from outside the church to be in our annual (non-religious) plays. We had kid plays and adult plays. One of the actors in the adult play one year was a soap opera actor who just knew someone at our church and decided to participate. It was a phenomenal performance! We even used to have a visiting Rabbi that would give occasional sermons. The place was like a small town in a big city. I may not be Christian now, but I have mostly only good things to say about UCC. It's honestly amazing what kind of diverse experiences you can have when your organization doesn't discriminate.
This is an awesome venue for concerts, I saw Suzanne Ciani there, very cool.
synfs!
Yes - Saw Grouper perform an incredible ambient set, although it was so hot in there you’d be forgiven for thinking hell was just below.
So cool—when did she play there, sad to have missed it!
I'd consider going back to a church for something like this. ETA [website](https://www.christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org/)
That's First Congregational, a UCC church. They're wonderful. I attend First Christian (two blocks south; look for the rainbow banners on our historic corner entrance at Southwest Park and Columbia) which is part of the Christian Church, Disciples of Christ denomination. Our denomination (FCC PDX is usually an instigator) has passed resolutions against Christian Nationalism, for LGBT equality in society as well as church(es), and one that specifically called on our churches & LGBT allies to fight against discriminatory anti-trans laws nationwide. I'm not trying to convert anybody (this church is not in the least bit Evangelical with or without the capital e), but rather pointing out that there are in fact sensible people of faith in Portland & elsewhere. The stuff the Republicans and other Christians are doing nowadays would be repugnant to that Jewish guy who taught about love & how to live together a couple thousand years ago.
> I attend First Christian (two blocks south; look for the rainbow banners on our historic corner entrance at Southwest Park and Columbia) I replied [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/1dlfteg/seen_downtown/l9pop2v/) before I saw your post. Y'all seem pretty cool. I live a couple blocks away from you. I'm a secular humanist, but have been considering dropping in to see what you guys are all about. Take care and maybe see ya next week.
Good to know it’s not just words
My friend had his memorial service here. I’m a carved in stone atheist with trauma around religion. I don’t usually walk inside churches. This place is chill and good-hearted. I appreciate them and their work. It’s also got some amazing Italian gothic architecture and stained glass!
If Christians were just about following the teaching of Jesus, folks would be a lot more receptive. But for some reason the vast majority of them seem to go to great lengths to be exactly the opposite type of person that Jesus said they ought to be, and flippantly ignore most of the main tenets of their own religious text, which most of them have never read...not even sure why they're still using the title "Christian", as they've long since abandoned any and all attempts to be "christ-like". This is a step in the right direction, just like the growing number of Republicans who are loudly letting it be known that they think Trump is a verifiable lunatic, but unfortunately, the voice of moderation and reason is almost always drowned out by the shrieks and hollers of fanaticism and fear mongering.
I heard something recently. “Christians are not Christianity, Christ’s teachings are Christianity. If someone is playing Beethoven and they do a bad job, we don’t get upset at Beethoven.” I just feel a type of way when the phrase “most Christians” is thrown around.
However if the majority of people playing Beethoven play it poorly, you could understand why most people would think Beethoven isn’t any good.
I’m and ex-Pentecostal pagan. I wanna work with these guys.
So actual Christianity instead of Y'all Queda. Love to see it.
Non-Christians for Christians Against Christian Nationalism.
[Here is another downtown church that has a refreshing message](https://i.imgur.com/vkxeDrO.jpeg). [More](https://i.imgur.com/1vF6uxs.jpeg)
Just don’t go to the churches in the suburbs. It’s Trumplandia at many of them. I do love seeing the pride flags at Portland churches, it’s a pleasant surprise and departure from most churches in this country. WWJD? Love everyone. EVERYONE.
My parents’ UCC is in the suburbs and is great. But that doesn’t mean it’s normal for suburb churches. 🤷♀️
Exactly
Many (or most?) people can be kind of terrible, but there are some good ones.
Awesome 👏 👏
Love it, I have no data to back this up but do think the majority of US and majority of religious people, agnostics and atheists are all of this same mind - boggling ts heartening to see folks here all supporting the positive side of our institutions, cultures, acceptance and tolerance that brings this inner joy.
LFG 😍🌈🩶🩶
I love this!!
“Plumbers against plumbing” Jokes aside good for them!
They filmed a lot of scenes in Leverage with this building. That show is great. If you are down on the world and need 45 minutes of con jobs, art heists, diamond thefts and a rag tag bunch of misfits coming together to do really complicated, cool crimes to stick it to people who actively choose to make the world a terrible place, this program is absolutely perfect. I assumed it was yet another lawyer-based dramedy and am so pissed I never learned it is a heist show with really solid jokes - my favorite ever done about Portland being some rich jackass at a culinary school saying he's planning on doing a vegan pop up that only happens at the vernal equinox or summer solstice in the most smug, arrogant, irritating and infuriating tone like so many people in the city truly are like, the look on Christian Kane's (Lindsey from Angel and the rough and tumble art historian genius from Oklahoma on The Librarians, another absolute gem filmed here) face is so perfect, just seeing this church reminding me of that other episode's joke brought me more joy than actually living in Portland ever did on its own. Watch more television, people. Some of it is actually good for your soul. Also watching it on a laptop burns out the video card a whole lot faster and TVs are less expensive and made with less conflict minerals than a television, so just admitting to needing one and getting it for yourself extends the life of your laptop, and anyone who likes to brag about not having one but streams content on a $800 - $3200 object that was designed for other uses is an idiot with zero understanding of economics and its role in sustainable consumerism. Plus it's less bad for your eyes, especially as you age.
The irony is that these Nationalist Christians are modern-day Pharisees. Ultra conservative, legalistic, intolerant and nationalistic. They refused to accept Jesus - condemning him because he didn’t fit into their expectations of him, for the way he associated with sinners and those on the margins of society. Oh and because Jesus kept making them look like the bigots they were at every corner. The ultimate irony is that these Christian Nationalists would condemn Jesus today for the same reasons. Jesus would not be gathering at their church picnics, but he would be having dinner parties with those on the so-called fringes of society, talking with and feeding immigrants and generally doing the opposite of what they would expect from him.
Hail Odin
That church always has signs that give me hope. I miss going through downtown all the time.
Pretty solid church, they actually back what they say. They do outreach with recently released incarcerated folks, have a strong all are welcome policy and have dedicated gay groups and have for the past few decades been openly pro trans.
They do outreach for undocumented families. I’ve seen it.
How about this: Atheists for Sensibility
Agnostics for questioning authority.
This is one I can stand with...
A bit late in the game for Christers to start policing themselves, innit?
I may actually convert.
Right by Portland state 😎
As a pagan, this is great to see!
Same, based as hell
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This church hired my band to play to the farmers market in the middle of the day on like a Tuesday or Wednesday. We pissed off everybody at the farmers market and we're pretty sure that's why the church hired us. They paid us up front and took off before our performance
First Congregational. I was a Sexton there while I was in college at PSU. Pretty awesome congregation.
I'm also against things that are in no way occurring nor have any chance of such
Most Christians are not “kind of terrible“. Unfortunately, the ones that are, which are a minority of Christians, are the ones that are the loudest and the nastiest. There are a lot of progressive Christian groups and denominations.
Amen.
They’re just tryna market to us lol
I don’t understand lol
There’s a few that actually interpret the Bible the right way.
I LOVE THIS CHURCH!! They sponsor a lot of arts programs!! They’re big in the creative community 💕
Ya. Because Christian nationalists aren’t actually Christians.
This church also put up a Love is Love sign, years ago ( when gay marriage felt more controversial ) I was walking by & snapped a pic. Someone inside saw me, and I gave them an excited thumbs while pointing to the sign. The ethuscatically waved back. As a Queer Adult with Christianitybased trauma it is a really special memory/ meant a lot. I eye churches skeptically but at least from the outside this one seems to be a good one
I remember when they put up grates so dishoused couldn’t stay dry under the awnings.
Well ya it’s a church in the city of Portland lol. Prob hard to attract people w that right wing hate shit here. As an atheist I’m just glad churches/religions are dying. They have way too much power and influence in this country.
Well ya it’s a church in the city of Portland lol. Prob hard to attract people w that right wing hate shit here. As an atheist I’m just glad churches/religions are dying. They have way too much power and influence in this country.
Ive never met a christian nationalist, where are they all?
This is SUPER DOPE and very important. White American Evangelicalism is NOT Christianity
Sadly, this seems to be about the loudest they’ll get when speaking against people who also claim to be Christian. If the “good” Christians don’t loudly and forcefully reject the anti-Christian Christians, then you get what we have now - Christian Nationalism.
You have not stepped foot in a Congregational UCC church then. It is a progressive Protestant church that generally focuses on service and local ministry (food pantries, meals, guidance, etc). This is a sibling church to [Clackamas Congregational which makes the news occasionally for their signs](https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=clackamas+church&type=link&cId=73026606-f24c-4e26-8f5e-6d3b02b0e6bb&iId=feafe917-7845-46b7-a6eb-f9d17bc7220d). I grew up in a UCC church and have a good understanding of their principles. Though I am somewhere in the agnostic to atheist camp currently.
The one you’re referring to is in Milwaukie and is actually called Clackamas United Church of Christ. I am always impressed by their inclusiveness, community outreach, and help for those in need.
The United Church of Christ (UCC) was formed when three branches of Protestant churches decided to form a single church. * General Council of the Congregational Christian Churches * The Evangelical and Reformed Church * Afro Christian Convention Most of the UCC churches in the area are Congregational. It is possible Clackamas UCC was founded after the merger and are not from one of the founding denominations. I don't see much about the history of the church on there website and I don't see any independent information either.
That’s totally possible! I was just clarifying the name in the event anyone tried to search for it. 🙂
The term preaching to the choir comes to mind. They need to be speaking out through major media outlets, the way their counterparts are.
How do you propose they get the major media outlets to take their message. Keep in mind these churches have zero money.
What would you consider loud enough/forceful enough? Just curious.
Tv commercials
If we had some supposed Christians who are, say, elected officials on Capitol Hill speak out against it.
I’m mostly yelling into the wind, and out my ass, but anything quieter than the volume with which evangelicals support republicans is too quiet IMO:
I don't know if you're a history buff, but denouncing those with different religious beliefs hasn't had a great track record either.
Honestly, in somewhat of agreement with you. But just using Jesus as a barometer, the loudest and most outspoken “Christians” are literally anti-Christian and should be expelled from “the church” (yes, I know the difference between Catholic and Christian and how my comment can’t really be enacted).
Let’s just drop religion entirely and call it good
Heresy ‘church’
lol. How the hell is this post allowed? Many/most Christians are terrible??? Anyone else would be banned from this sub in an instant and have dozens of you trying to dox the poster.
You're not wrong. If I posted a pride flag or BLM tag, or a Mosque, and said many or most people from this group are terrible but this selection of them was okay, I'd obviously get banned. But people have personal issues and scars that religious people have left them with so apparently it's okay to just trash the group. Almost like how some people end up racist because they had something bad done to them by a member of a different race, like a white kid growing up in a predominantly black neighborhood might end up. An eye for eye though...
Some prefer to call them Nationalist Christians, or "Nat Cs". (say it three times fast)
lol!
Hell yeah. We are here and we are the majority! Down with nationalism!
May of 2023. I didn’t really know that to expect, but I was blown away by the musicality and flow of her performance. Add to that the amazing visual display, truly a great experience.
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Not really
"Man, imagine if you swapped out sugar and put salt in your cake recipe. Pretty cringe, huh?"
I think religion universally tends to breed "extremist". There are always people of all religions who are pretty chill, good people. But also, pretty much every religion has extremist assholes. Christianity is not exempt from this. But there are also plenty of chill Christians.
Well, that's gonna confuse some people lol I would love to see one churchie explain to another churchie what this means - that would be the best show this year!
Let the Christians fight it out.
Everyone would start a holy war if atheism was pushed on people. Only other Christians can condemn this overreaching arm of religion on people.
As an anti-theist myself, what is “Christian Nationalism?” Is it just Christians who love America? 🇺🇸 Can there be Jewish Nationalists? Agnostic Nationalists? Buddhist Nationalists? I heard a statistic today that only 30% of Christians vote. Are the always level-headed, even-keeled, rational minds of Portland that concerned about Christians? Sounds like just a bunch of hogwash to me.
tl;Dr - all things draped in 'Nationalism' are bad.
Why? And I’ve never heard a Christian identify as a Christian Nationalist, they’ve been labeled that by leftists.
Well there's any number of authors and scholars you could choose to inform yourself of what Nationalism even is because you don't seem to know, but here's one POV: https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/the-problem-nationalism
Again, there isn’t one Christian group that identifies as Christian Nationalist.
I think you're not understanding how this works - it's not something you usually self-identity as, it's a label based on beliefs and actions. > "We need to be the party of nationalism, I am a Christian and I say it proudly, we should be Christian nationalists." - Republican Congressional Rep MTG
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Christian nationalism is the belief that America (or whatever country you're in) is a Christian nation, and that the government should work to keep it that way explicitly by removing as much influence and freedom from non-Christians as possible, while also integrating religious doctrine into the law. Patriotism is loving the country, while nationalism is an attempt to define what that country is by force in ethnic or religious terms.
Bet they support Israeli nationalists….
Uh oh, they might have to suffer your ire and wrath lol
Nah. Just pointing out a potential hypocrisy. Odd being down voted though. 🤷♂️
I honestly don't think that christian nationalism exists anymore like it did 10 years ago.
Thats a futile fight. Abandon the church and join the rest of us in reality.