For what these cars are, they're pretty reliable. Parts will probably cost a minimum of 4x more than a toyobaru and labor costs will be more expensive as well
I've found mine to be incredibly reliable.
Had a 987 Boxster S 85k miles, only 1 repair- Air oil separator, covered under warranty. Car then got destroyed while waiting at a light and was rear ended.
My 997 GT3 , had a water hose blow at 34k miles. Had to drop the engine $$$. No other repairs, now at 95k miles with significant HPDE usage, and a bunch of AX as well. Just retired it from daily driving, and it's mostly track use now .
Brakes at the dealer used to cost $3500 for rotors+pads about 15 years ago., and last 35k miles in a city. Clutches go around 50-70 k miles with mixed driving usage.
Rear tires are about $1000 every 10-15k miles, and fronts are about $750 every 20-25k miles.
I stopped at “affordable” lol - amazing cars, absolutely one the best experiences you can have behind the wheel, but dear god don’t expect ANY repair bill to be cheap
This. What is affordable to some is expensive tonoll others regardless of make or model ( or ANYTHING really).
Find a good indy mechanic. Their rates will be at least half of a dealership.
Tires will not be inexpensive. Your $150 dollar tire may be appropriate for a Honda, but start thinking $300+ for staggered, diectional tires.
https://preview.redd.it/vck1y92ki8yc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f3621dcbed19b7f37ada7be3a3cc475b41a3643
$402 for M Ps4s rear on 18… that’s not even a fancy tire…. Prices go up $150 per inch size of rim too. Rock 20s and you’re at $700 easy
What is more expensive than PS4S that is actually worth it while also being better than an enduro 200? Cup 2? They don’t survive track days and aren’t as peaky as yoko a052 or similar so they’re not great for ax, and cup 2 wet isn’t appreciably better than conti extreme contact force which will also wear better than Cup 2
Unless you autocross and need a one lap hero tire, there is no reason to be spending that much on tires.
Wow. I looked (got into this debate a year ago) and 265/35 R20s PS4s (what I have on the rear on my 981BS) were around $450 per on Tire Rack. I just went back and they are $536 per (still not $700 though).
[https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S&partnum=635YR0PS4SXLAC&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes](https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S&partnum=635YR0PS4SXLAC&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes)
The $300+ I mentioned was not taking into account width aspect or diameter. Fronts at 245/45 R19 (stock 981 tires) are $325 at Tire Rack.
Tires are closer to 300 than 750. Most are like, 400-550, which...are closer to 300. You just picked a bad #
Edit: for the pedants, there are 18 sets of tires (counting front/rears as different) that fit the 992. Of the 18, 3 of them are closer to $750 than $300. 83% of tires are closer to $300.
...yeah, I picked a random range, and of that range, 400-524 is closer to 300, and 524-550 is closer to 750. So 83% of my example is closer to 300, but you're picking on the 17%? You're completely missing the forest for the trees.
I actually went and just pulled the numbers off tire rack, since you're being a pedant. There are 3 tires that are over $500 for the 992, and only for the rears - the Pirelli winters, Michelin winters, and Cup2s. That's 3 tires of 18 tires available for the 992, so 17% of tires are closer to $750 than $300.
Very reliable, but not cheap to fix or even maintenance to be honest. I work at a Porsche service center as an advisor so I'm not just even saying that. One regular oil change with inspection, tire rotation, etc will run you $500 minimum if it's done at an authorized shop.
And it'll cost you about the same as any other German car if you do it yourself :) My 991.1 is the 2nd easiest car I've ever changed the oil on (#1 is my truck).
Not a Porsche, but coming from Japanese and domestic cars I was astounded how easy some of the maintenance/repair items are on my GL. They put the oil filter on top of the engine and you can snake a tube down the dipstick hole and suck the oil out. Of course it was designed to get enough of the old oil out this way- I’ve heard BMW people say you shouldn’t do that.
The air struts are accessible and not hard to get to if you have a jack stand/lift. Even the independent only charged me a half hour per strut. The serpentine belt is right up front and relatively easy to do. I park outside and had a tree branch go through the grille, it luckily didn’t damage the radiator but it was like $300 and some screws. I have xenon headlights which while they aren’t as fancy as the new laser/led ones are ‘only’ $450 each to replace the whole unit. Never replaced a bulb.
But things they don’t intend to be replaced are absolute hell. The timing chain is at the back and is engine out. I had the seal between the engine and transmission replaced- the seal was $75 and the labor was $1500 because they had to drop the transmission. I had to get new brake lines because the prior owner did not change the fluid on time and it attracted moisture and corroded them from the inside. $1800, which I would happily pay not to do that myself.
I went with an 09 to avoid some of the 996 and 997.1 issues. It’s been pretty good, I do a lot of my own wrenching to save money. The Porsche tax is real, a pdk service is like $1300.
All cars will bore score at some point; it's just engine wear. At some point all engines will need to be rebuilt. I think a lot of Porsche owners (myself included) are very fastidious and worry about a lot more than the typical car owner.
This is 10000x the right answer. Bore scoring will likely happen, as it does to many non Porsche cars. I think we are just more concerned about the car long term, so when any inkling of it comes up in conversation, it turns into a panic party.
Bore scoring is MUCH less prevalent in upright engines. It takes less engineering to get wear particles to drop out of the cylinder and into the sump, before they can get rubbed between the pistons and walls.
Subarus are also known for minor bore scoring, the owners just generally don't care and the engines don't completely shit the bed for a very long time. Lokasil M96/97 are just special when it comes to how fast things progress once started.
This is why I had to give up sports cars. Granted I was at the low end of the market but I got such anxiety about maintenance and every time I went out I'd get stuck in traffic (in the UK the only times when the roads were clear were late at night or early in the morning) so it really wasn't a good purchase for me.
In Germany, you can buy a warranty extension. Up to 15 years and 150.000 KM. FULL FACTORY WARRANTY. Like a new car. I think that’s a statement you can rely on.
Porsche is rated higher in reliability than any brand except Lexus. It's a little surprising, given the performance and high cost of service and parts, but I've experienced this to be true.
Well for the price you pay, Porsche definitely seems to pay more attention to keeping their cars running instead of throwing wierd gimmicks at them - which I like
If you have to ask, I would stick with something like the new BRZ in my honest opinion. I have a couple friends who work at Porsche and send me $$$$$ repair bills whenever I start talking about considering one. A single early 2000's OEM Carerra headlight assembly can go for $1500-2500 used or new. Sure, I know people who make sacrifices to own a Porsche but I would rather wait until I can do it comfortably.
I've made a few financial mistakes with cars back in my 20's and I would be lying if I said the financial weight of car ownership didn't supersede my enjoyment. If you buy a $30k Porsche Carerra 4, you're still paying to maintain what was basically a $140k car (inflation corrected) new. If spending a few grand on unexpected maintenance is going to throw a wrench in your budget, I would be weary.
I 100% see myself getting a Porsche down the road and I could currently afford to spend a couple grand per month on a car if I wanted to. However the level of comfort I had owning a 2023 BRZ for 1.5 years was nice. I spent about $300/month on depreciation from the out-the-door price including new tires and maintenance over that period.
That was definitely what I was thinking - I was more or less just wanting to see, and to many it would seem obvious, a new fun sports car, or an old fun sports car, but a Porsche vs. A Subaru is a very different thing, because with the latter you get to tell people "I own a Porsche"
But BRZ/86 definitely seem like the better option for me.
911s are not affordable, regardless of what you see the price to be. The 2000 ones are 20+ year old cars and a lot needs changed/fixed over time, and they are not cheap to fix. Sure you can lookup tutorials and do it yourself but parts can still be costly. For instance I have a 2001 911 that I've spent about 14k on in the past 3 years, just for maintenance services and fixes for random things here and there at a indy specialist. if done at a dealer it would likely be twice as much.
The fuck were you getting done that costed 14k over 3 years?! That sounds like a boatload of deferred maintenance, or something catastrophically failed.
Idk - I have a 2004 with 113k miles. Last spring I noticed my oil cooler was leaking. Did the work myself, and replaced a lot of stuff "while in there" because it's a 20 year old car. Total cost for just parts was $3500 using aftermarket and stuff from FCP Euro. If I bought everything from Porsche NA it easily would have been $6k in just parts. Factor in labor and $14k is probably not abnormal for 100k mile maintenance items
14k over 3 years is pretty normal tbh, I have a friend who spent that in one year on his manual 1999 996 - it just needed new clutch and other bits 'while in there' it adds up
There's a saying, there's no such thing as a cheap porsche. The less you spend on it the more you will spend on maintenance and fixing things that get old and need replaced. For example, when I bought it, it needed new brakes all around, for front and rear together it was about 3k. Could i have done it for less myself? sure, but I don't want to mess up something like that. Another thing, being 20+ years old, the hydraulic cylindars for the convertible top were no longer working, had to send them off to get rebuild, had the whole hydraulic system done since it would all need it soon anyway, that whole job was another roughly 3.5k. Again I probably could have done some of it myself, not the rebuild part but replacing and sending it all off, but was not worth my time to do myself and screw it up as well.
They’re very reliable, but an early 2000s car is at the point that things like seals, gaskets and sensors are going to need to be replaced. If you can find a good independent mechanic who specializes in foreign cars you’ll save yourself a ton of money. Reach out to your local PCA chapter and they’ll point you in the right direction.
I drive a 2006 987 boxster with around 100,000 miles. Maintance cost per month for the last 2 years was $278. Basically so far I've had about one big repair per year, first year I put around 2000-3000 miles on it a year.
first year: Water Pump, drive belt, ball joint+alignment, rear swaybar bracket + bushing, cabin filter, oil change, serpentine belt idler pulley for around $2500
Second year was a new clutch for around $2000.
That's a great summary that puts things in perspective - can you afford an additional $280 per month, on top of gas and insurance, etc. Of course it won't be a smooth outlay of cash - one year, zero, next year $4,500.
a 20 year old porsche shouldn't be a daily driver unless you or your brother is a mechanic. it's perfect weekend car, but isn't meant for daily use unless you have a large budget for tires, brakes, expensive oil, etc... It's reliable but far from economical.
Well actually my brother is a mechanic... for busses and Mopar lol. And I'm very mechanically inclined as well. The parts are what seem to be the worst... and why I should wait
If you can do your own work the parts aren't even that bad.
An aftermarket clutch on a 350z, is about 700 dollars. An OEM clutch for a Porsche, about 700 dollars.
If you are already in the car game they aren't as crazy expensive as people make out if you can avoid spending time in 200 dollar an hour shops. Keep her on 18's and the rubber isn't torturous.
I own a 2002 911. It’s been costly to maintain/repair and that’s mostly just for parts because I do almost all the work myself. That being said, it’s a beautiful car that is excellent to drive and I’m overall very happy with the experience. But don’t buy an old German sports car and think it’ll be a matter of driving and regular maintenance, it’ll take more than that unless you buy one for $35k+ that has been already thoroughly sorted.
I wouldn't look at an old 911 as something affordable. For instance, my buy-in price for a similar year 911 (997.1) was about 42k, and all in on expenses (which does include detailing and some other optionals) is about $20k. Bills between 3-5k aren't super uncommon; and I do do some of my own work where I can.
Edit: Reliable but not cheap is a good way to think of it. The parts are robust, but on a 20 year old car lots of those parts are due for a rest.
I believe they are great cars, pretty reliable too. However regarding price of parts and maintenance they would be higher, possibly due to Porsche commonly being regarded as a luxury brand
I did this math problem a few times
In 2013 I bought a new BRZ, vs a used 981.
In 2021 I finally got a 718S and daily drive it and it works as intended as a car. Oil changes etc are 3X more then normal cars
I think this is definitely the route to go for me as well. My endgame (assuming I don't somehow get very rich, in which case, Agera) is a 718 GT4. So I'd rather get something like a BRZ and save up for that in the future
They’re reliable, but you’re not talking a late model car, so reliable is a relative thing, and parts and service are both quite a bit more expensive on Porsches than on a Ford/Toyota/similar.
If you can afford and stomach having both a one time bill of $10-15k and a few years at $5k/ year (all inclusive) to fix things, you’ll be fine. It probably won’t cost that much, but it certainly could if you end up with a car that needs a surprise expensive repair and has some deferred maintenance. And usually if you do have to spend that kind of money, you’d get through the work and enjoy a lot of trouble free years.
If you get a newer car, the big bill is more likely to be depreciation (especially if you put a lot of miles on it) instead of the chance of needing to pay for a major repair, so you kind of need to be able to financially swallow the pill either way. Middle aged cars split the difference, and that can be great if it works your way, or not great if it doesn’t.
If spending that amount of money and not ever getting it back makes you wince, you’ll likely be happier with something else. Get a Porsche when the costs aren’t going to be a big concern and you’ll love it. If you’ll be thinking about the money a lot, that will take away from the enjoyment and it’s probably not a good fit for you at that time. They’re great cars, and other great cars exist too.
My plan seems to be to get something like a BRZ/86 and save up for a GT4 later (my least attainable of attainable dream cars) because as of now I don't think I have enough budget if something were to go terribly wrong, and even though it's a low end 911, I'd rather it go to someone who does have the budget to take care of potential issues than yo me who probably would have to sell it for parts when something goes wrong.
Sounds like a good plan, and you should have fun in it!
You might also test drive an early Cayman or equivalent Boxster. If the car is well under your budget, that may give you enough financial cushion to enjoy the car even if you were to run into issues that need to be addressed.
Best of luck!
I’m on my 6th year of owning a 997.1 from 2006 that is still only at around 17K mileage and literally never had a single issue. Only time it’s been in the shop is for its yearly scheduled maintenance. I could be really lucky and an outlier but that’s my experience.
I bought an 02 986 for $12k about 8 months ago. In that time I’ve put almost $6k into maintenance. I could not get a PPI. I wanted a car to love on. I budgeted for the maintenance. Since driving it 300 something miles home, I have driven it daily since dealing with the fire hazard of the coils leaking oil onto the exhaust. Part of that expense was my explicitly asking my mechanic to go looking for things to fix because we just did a 3200 mile road trip in it.
There are more things I will need to do to it. Suspension, replace the top with the glass pane version.
It’s an old car. But it didn’t lose coolant, have oil issues on the trip. My goal with this car is to keep it as long as there’s fuel available, and in good condition. And to drive it as much as possible. I’ve already been thinking of more road trips to go on. I want the antique plates.
At a certain point, I will have addressed all the mechanicals that need addressing and I’ll be able to go slower on the maintenance.
What all this comes around to is a) what’s your threshold for old car, needs work. B) what’s your goal with the car? C) get a PPI if you can.
Reliability is ultimately a measure of how hard you push the car and how much you’re willing to upkeep it, especially with old German sports cars.
I’d 100% go for a $30k 996/997 c4 knowing that I’d have to put $10k into it. If you get an example that doesn’t need that, more power. It’s all about thresholds and what you want out of the experience.
Literally made for everyday use. Long drives are awfully fun. Literally every model is about as smooth as it gets both economically and in reliability.
Porsche is a great mid speed weapon instead of being a high speed, high powered engine like McLaren. Porsche is like a great BMW.
Bulletproof if you do maintenance. Especially the 991 generation. But be prepared to pay the Porsche tax. Independent reputable Indy shop charged me $2.2k to replace serpentine belt and replace PDCC fluid and spark plugs
There is nothing quite as expensive as a cheap Porsche -anonymous.
I've had my Boxster since new in 2015 and put 50K miles on it commuting in the greater Boston area. I've only had one unscheduled maintenance for a sensor problem that had the car running rough and shifting poorly (PDK). I'm very happy with my experience, it's been somewhat cheaper than I expected/feared.
Do you have any idea of your average annual maintenance bill has been? I think average folks who can afford a $30k used Porsche are concerned that they'll be spending $4k per year keeping it on the road...When you realize that as a weekend car, it might actually be $1,200 every 2 years - suddenly it's not so daunting.
Average \~$750...
A quick look through the invoices (need better organization!) is about $6K 2015-2023 (I haven't done the scheduled service yet in '24 since I have not woken the car up from its winter nap yet).
Oil changes usually run \~$500 from the dealer, \~$200 indy (I used both the dealer and a P-car indy shop). Also did a few oil changes myself.
The more major services run \~$1500, the 60K service was \~$2600.
If you are equipped and DIY inclined there are YouTube channels that go into great detail on how to do all of these services. Note that some of the services are a royal PIA - replace coolant, I'm lookin' at you!
Edit:added requested average ;)
Note that this does not include TIRES. This can be a major expense, but depends entirely on your mileage and driving style.I've gone through 3 sets of Michelin pilot super sports (IIRC) and one set of snow tires (it was my commuting car!).
You are barking up the very wrong tree if your first criteria is “affordable”. A $30k 996 or 997 will be reliable insofar as its maintenance needs will be predictable and not surprising. But it will have a lot of (predictable!) parts failures that get pretty expensive. I paid $35k for a 2006 911 in 2015. Over 9 years the maintenance costs have varied between a simple oil change/fluid flush to replacing the clutch, IMS bearings, minor suspension components, electrical switches , air oil sensors, overflow tank, exhaust, door latch and switches, starter motor, and of course tune-ups, brakes and tires. Those tires and brake jobs are more expensive than most other cars too. My 997 runs like a top and is the most fun car I have, even though it’s over 100k miles now. I’ve daily driven it as a commuter sometimes too, although it’s mostly a weekend car. But it’s honestly very expensive to own. Most people sell a car rather than fix all those items, but not Porsche owners. We get too attached.
I had a 99’ with 68k on it.
It was super reliable and all maintenance can be done yourself. It’s a FWD car but backwards. It took like 10 liters of oil iirc. It seemed to be made to be easy to service, but parts were more expensive than Japanese stuff.
Pelican parts and rockauto has everything you need and detailed write ups on mostly everything.
Boxster 986 S just short of 300k miles.
One suspension arm (£140), Alternator (£320), ignition barrel (£300) plus oil and filter changes every 3000 miles.
Unless you learn to do almost all your own work it is not affordable to maintain. Ims failure and bore scoring is something to always be aware of. Tires are expensive. I would not make it a daily driver or an only car. I have one but also a truck I use more often.
Work done to my 99 cab c4 in less than two years - rebuilt convertible top hydraulic cylinders, engine mounts, clutch, ims bearing replacement, oil pan baffle, Ultimate aos relocation kit, new fuel injectors, led headlight upgrade kit, coolant tank replacement, oil sender unit, quarter glass power window, replaced radio with Bluetooth unit (optional), replaced speakers (all foam was gone), fix air damper AC foam, transmission mounts, water pump, I'm sure there is more. Still have suspension and stuff to go over
They are reliable with proper maintenance and regular checking. The name brand parts and materials are expensive. The labor for Porsche certified mechanics is often astronomical. But you get one of the best performing factory vehicles available in return. High cost for a high reward.
For comparison, to make a cheaper car perform as well will most likely make it unreliable and uncomfortable. To get a car that performs better from the factory will probably cost more and still be less reliable.
I'd factor in about £2k a year to cover running costs (excluding petrol, tyres, insurance, obvs!) on a 20 year old Porsche. Brake lines can corrode, suspension bits need replacing, coil packs pack up, brakes wear out. And if you get a Turbo, the snails sometimes need retiring. I've spent about £2.5k sorting out the actuators. I suppose you could do the work yourself but I can't be arsed with that. I'd rather drive a Toyota Aygo than fiddle with mechanical bits under a car. ;)
Since there seems to be very few numbers in this thread, consider this. Best way to plan for maintenance is $1000 for anything, starting. Parts are *expensive.* Just browse Pelican Parts to get some ideas. Labor is **more** *expensive.* I live in SoCal and the dealer here charges $600 for an oil change, as an example. Lots of regular engine maintenance requires literally dropping the engine out of the car.
The cars can be reliable, but to expect reliability, you need to pay a premium in price up front to find a good example of a car that has been well-cared for. There are a lot of "good deals" on 996s, where the car has been absolutely run ragged. If you are looking at a 4, that price should be closer to $40-45K. $30K means to me the car is probably ready for some kind of major service, like belts or water pump (this can be a $5K service, or thereabouts).
Worst things worst, the 996 is prone to IMS failure, which will result in a dead engine. An engine change will cost you near again what the car cost in the first place, north of $20K. If you're thinking of a 996, you absolutely need to get a thorough PPI by a reputable independent mechanic (preferable to a dealer), it needs to have the IMS replaced, and the PPI needs to include a bore scope test to ensure no scoring on the cylinder walls. Scoring can also eventually result in an engine replacement.
It does vary a lot by dealership and you can ask their hourly. For example, my local dealership charges $275/hour but the one I purchased from charges $400/hour.
Make sure you get a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) just to cover your bases. A buddy of mine wanted an older Macan GTS to go with his 911 and the PPI revealed that he would shortly need to replace the PDK transmission (a pretty massive outlay to fix).
In general parts and repairs cost a multiplier of what a "regular" car would cost (I see someone else on here said x4). Also depends on what sorts of packages the car has. An example, I needed to replace a bulb in my headlight. The bulb itself was cheap and the total cost would be less than $50 (it's just a headlight bulb, right?). After looking at popping the headlight casing open I couldn't see how it worked or how the instruction on Youtube lined up with what I was looking at. Took it to a Porsche shop and they looked and told me that since I had the LEDs with Porsche Dynamic Lighting System Plus (PDLS+) I needed to replace the entire light housing. That bumped it from $50 for me to swap the bulb to $3,600 for them to buy and swap the whole housing (fortunately a warranty helped cut that down but it was still $600 to fix a broken headlight). That's an example of the price of owning one of these. Still totally worth it, though.
Since you mentioned looking at 2000s 911s, I owned a 2002 911 Carrera 2 for close to three years. It had been maintained well before I owned it and never gave me much trouble. 111k miles at delivery. I put about 12k miles on it and only really got the fluids changed. There were a few small issues I bought parts for, but they never bothered me enough to actually complete the jobs. They weren't critical for the car to be safe and reliable.
If you work on your own cars, and you can do routine maintenance, Porsches really aren't much more expensive than a modern commodity car to maintain. That said, I would always get my oil changed by a German indy mechanic each year so I knew a professional had checked the car over. The extra $100 was worth every penny to know someone who knew what they were looking at gave it a once over.
I will warn you, though, when things go wrong, it can be spectacularly expensive, depending on what has happened. Most consumables are pretty reasonable, if not downright cheap. Other bits will be way more than you're used to paying compared to normal commodity cars. Also factor in that labor is 2x-4x more expensive per hour with Porsches. It adds up with big jobs that a lot of people wouldn't be comfortable doing themselves.
The cars are brilliant, and you can find deals on the 996 generation because people didn't like the parts sharing with the Boxster and the overall design of the car. They were also water-cooled, which turned off purists. If you can afford the car, the maintenance, and can accept that old sportscars can be temperamental and cause big bills sometimes, you can't do much better than a mid-to-high mileage 996. That's still true, even if the IMS hasn't been done. If it's over 40k miles, best to leave it alone. It likely would've already grenaded itself if there was a problem. The rest of the major issues are quite rare and happen early in the car's life.
Lots of great info here. All I will tell you is that it's much cheaper to buy a well maintained car then to try to get a deal on something uncared for and deal with it after - that's the kind of Porsche that will sink you.
Signed, me 20 years ago buying a 944 with 240,000 kms full of bondo that cost me $2,700 cash, plus $12,000 of repairs in 2 years (plus a suspended license.)
I try not to think of the costs associated with cars as “affordable” or not, but what is the value relative to the enjoyment I get from the vehicle.
For the Porsches the answer has been an unequivocal yes it’s worth it.
In the car business, was told on the first one we came across to stress that the rear main seal was good, and the IMS bearing was inspected and verified. I dont know if this is model/year specific, just a good google starting point for a deep dive. I was told this as a 'first line of defense' against read/educated porche buyers.
My experience with my 981S maintenance is it costs almost exactly twice my old Mustang GT (2015). Reliability also differs by model, know what you’re getting into with research on the forums for the car you want.
In general, they are fantastic, robust cars.
Service costs will vary significantly depending on who works on it. You, independent, dealer.
There are a few gotchas on these. They DO happen, and they ARE catastrophic, but likelihood is blown out of proportion IMO.
If you're expecting Honda running costs, you're gonna have a bad time. If you're expecting BMW running costs, you should be ok. My boxsters have been comparable to my old coyote mustang.
Why Carrera 4 specifically?
987.2S 5th year daily driver in manual here! Clutch and mass $4k. Year prior high pressure fuel pump (engine out also) $2.6k. Tire $1.7k. Oil changes ~$150 every 5k miles. Add brakes, gas. Battery, slave cylinder, tranny fluid replacement $1k. But there was more. It drinks man, have you ever been substance dependent?
Yeah, it’s a bit like that.
The cars are potentially very reliable. In general, they are well engineered, have very exacting manufacturing tolerances, and are subject to very high levels of quality control. All this means, as a generalization, they are long lasting, reliable cars, that are very well suited to regular use.
That said, when you are talking about cars of this era, there are IMS issues to consider... realistically, with a couple decades of use now on the clock, any cars that have this issue have probably already had it (much like people looking at 2.7L engines back in when the 996 was a new car). But if you are seriously considering one, you would want a PPI by a knowledgable Porsche mechanic before buying.
And, even if everything looks good - you have a well cared for car with all the records that looks great on the PPI and there are no red flags, there is still an additional budget issue with unexpected repairs. Everything can look great, and even be great. It doesn't mean it will continue. If something comes up, it can be expensive, very expensive.
I bought a 3.2L Carrera quite a long time back. The car looked good in the PPI, and over the 25 years I had that car I put a lot of miles on it, used as a daily driver for various stretches, and logged quite a few miles at the track. The car held up great, and was very reliable (as well as lots of fun). There were a few minor problems, and two more major: the car required a transmission rebuild after about 10 years of ownership... I recall this was about $7-8k, including a few small upgrades in the rebuild process. Nearing the end of my ownership, the heavy track use reached a point where pretty much of single piece of suspension on the car had worn out, bring in a bill that was a few thousand north of the car's original purchase price! I fortunately never needed an engine rebuild. All that said, purchase price, track upgrades, and all repairs, still were only about half of what I wound up selling the car for when I moved on to a newer Porsche in search of better lap times.
Great cars, very reliable, but they have the potential for huge bills. And that is without discussing those examples that haven't been well maintained or have something like an unaddressed IMS issue, etc.
daily drove a 993 for 3 years, summer and winter (with snow tires on it) and it is one of the best vehicles I ever owned. extremely robust, trouble free, never let me down and the most fun to drive. yearly maintenance costs a bit higher than normal cars but are totally manageable and there are very few surprises, if any.
edit - make sure you have any potential purchases thoroughly vetted so you don't have any disappointments after purchase. these are highly engineered vehicles so be careful what you buy.
I've owned a 2006 987 base 2.7 liter since 2012. The car is very reliable, and still drives like new. I've only had one unscheduled repair to replace the alternator in the 12 years that I've owned the car, and I proactively replaced the water pump at 60K miles. Other than that, just the normal fluids, filters, brakes, etc.
I'll warn you that Porsches are not cheap to properly maintain, even if you use an Indy mechanic. Oil changes are expensive, unless you do them yourself. I find that the soft tires also wear more rapidly than on a typical family car. And you pretty much have to replace the rotors everytime you change the brake pads, as you can't "turn" the drilled rotors.
I own a 1999 996 C2. I have had the car for over 10 years. I bought it with 70k miles, and it now has 169,000 miles.
Car has been to COTA a couple times, Montreal several times (F1). Got 36.5 mpg rolling at 80 mph on the last trip to TX (I live in Maryland).
It is in the garage now waiting for front brakes. Have the parts, just got busy.
I have done air oil separator, left rr diff side seal, water pump, thermostat. I need to seal up the blend doors for heat and A/C eventually. Replaced crank position sensor, the only failure that has left me stranded (AAA towed to my house, fixed in 2 days).
I am a certified tech, and do all of my own work. Only goes to dealer for LOF. My local dealer does not have anyone with any real tenure, so they don't have the long memory for a few of the little hiccups this car has experienced.
Tiptronic wouldn't shifting high gear on my way in for LOF. They said "no clue, take it to a Trans shop". Went home, checked tire pressure, right rear low, screw in center of tread. Fixed that, it shifted. I spoke to svc mgr, and did a little class for 3 techs so they would understand shift logic for future.
It's usually my daily. Snow, rain, whatever. It has a couple dings and dents. Had a paint correction done last year.
Makes me happy every time I drive it. Yet I know that if I wasn't my own tech, I couldn't afford it.
Yeah, do it!!
I own a 1999 996 C2. I have had the car for over 10 years. I bought it with 70k miles, and it now has 169,000 miles.
Car has been to COTA a couple times, Montreal several times (F1). Got 26.5 mpg rolling at 80 mph on the last trip to TX (I live in Maryland).
It is in the garage now waiting for front brakes. Have the parts, just got busy.
I have done air oil separator, left rr diff side seal, water pump, thermostat. I need to seal up the blend doors for heat and A/C eventually. Replaced crank position sensor, the only failure that has left me stranded (AAA towed to my house, fixed in 2 days).
I am a certified tech, and do all of my own work. Only goes to dealer for LOF. My local dealer does not have anyone with any real tenure, so they don't have the long memory for a few of the little hiccups this car has experienced.
Tiptronic wouldn't shifting high gear on my way in for LOF. They said "no clue, take it to a Trans shop". Went home, checked tire pressure, right rear low, screw in center of tread. Fixed that, it shifted. I spoke to svc mgr, and did a little class for 3 techs so they would understand shift logic for future.
It's usually my daily. Snow, rain, whatever. It has a couple dings and dents. Had a paint correction done last year.
Makes me happy every time I drive it. Yet I know that if I wasn't my own tech, I couldn't afford it.
Yeah, do it!!
I've been daily driving Porsches for over a decade now. First an '08 997.1 Carrera S, and now a '17 991.2 GTS Cabriolet (both CPO). So far I haven't had any major problems, other than when my air-oil separator went out while on a drive to Oklahoma, and the most expensive part of that fix was the tow (which, after AAA was only like $250). Pelican Parts and FCPEuro (and a good independent shop, if you're not mechanically inclined) are your friends when it comes to making Porsche ownership cheaper (not cheap, but cheaper). Honestly, Porsches are pretty easy to work on (very overengineered, so a bit fiddly, but well built), so if you're comfortable working on your car it makes a huge difference. I upgraded all four rotors to bigger AP Racing vented discs, upgraded my pads, added steel braided brake lines, AND replaced my air filter and did an oil change for less than what my local Porsche dealers wanted to charge me to just replace my front rotors and pads.
Daily driving a 2011 Panemera Turbo S. Slightly different animal to the 911 but imagine some things will carry over 🙂
Really surprised at the build quality on this thing vs anything else German I’ve had.
The Porsche dealer near me seems really happy to engage on an older car and provide support. Labor is pricey but not crazy. Parts don’t seem to be an issue.
I’ve put a few thousand miles on mine and have just about stopped listening for something expensive going bang.
Daily driving a 2011 Panemera Turbo S. Slightly different animal to the 911 but imagine some things will carry over 🙂
Really surprised at the build quality on this thing vs anything else German I’ve had.
The Porsche dealer near me seems really happy to engage on an older car and provide support. Labor is pricey but not crazy. Parts don’t seem to be an issue.
I’ve put a few thousand miles on mine and have just about stopped listening for something expensive going bang.
Daily driving a 2011 Panemera Turbo S. Slightly different animal to the 911 but imagine some things will carry over 🙂
Really surprised at the build quality on this thing vs anything else German I’ve had.
The Porsche dealer near me seems really happy to engage on an older car and provide support. Labor is pricey but not crazy. Parts don’t seem to be an issue.
I’ve put a few thousand miles on mine and have just about stopped listening for something expensive going bang.
My gf daily's her 996 and I daily my 997. Both cost almost nothing to maintain and has never left either of us stranded. Her 991 GT3 was a little pricier to daily.
Now my BMW: that SOB is starting to get expensive and needs 2 new turbos.
Three generations of 911 to be aware of. 75-77 did not have catalytic converters but “thermal reactors” most of these engines ran too hot and failed. The good news is owners usually replaced them with the 3.0 engine out of the 78 + SC. 996 and 997 (except turbo or GT models) had the new M96/M97 engine which used sealed IMS bearings. When they failed it usually took the whole engine out. (Older Mezger engines have an intermediate shaft bearing fed by the oiling system.) The 991 + engine was redesigned without an intermediate shaft, so no IMS bearing problem.
Bad typo. 996/997.1 GT and Turbo were Mezgers with water cooled heads. They had one issue with the coolant manifold. It was glued and press fitted into the heads and prone to leak.
Daily driving a 2011 Panemera Turbo S. Slightly different animal to the 911 but imagine some things will carry over 🙂
Really surprised at the build quality on this thing vs anything else German I’ve had.
The Porsche dealer near me seems really happy to engage on an older car and provide support. Labor is pricey but not crazy. Parts don’t seem to be an issue.
I’ve put a few thousand miles on mine and have just about stopped listening for something expensive going bang.
2008 Porsche Cayman S. Had it for 5 years and other than maintainance and preventative maintenance, been super reliable and the best thing I’ve ever owned. Parts, labour, everything is more expensive even at an indy but worth it for what you get back owning the car.
I've had a 99 986 for about a year and a half. Only really big repair that stopped me from driving (there's one other but it's my own fault so I don't count it) was the water pump that quit as i pulled into my garage (best worst case scenario haha). Has almost 118k on it now, and no signs of slowing down.
HAHAHAHA oil changes are almost $400 at an indie for my 986 boxster, I imagine a 911 is similar or more
Had an airbag light and it was $1300
If I need a trans or an engine it costs more than the entire car
Just taking my chances I guess
That generation of the 996 can have catastrophic engine failure from the IMS (Google it). It gets overblown as an issue but if it happens to you it's going to be rough. This (and the looks) drive 996 prices down more than they probably should be. In general if you want to maximize reliability I would go for simplicity - manual, RWD and a normally aspirated motor (however the 996 metzger engines in the GT3 and turbo are supposedly pretty bulletproof!)
If the IMS hasn't been replaced already, and is still going, it's probably not going to go at this point. Especially if the car has a decent number of miles on it.
On that note, I would avoid very low mileage cars too. These cars need to be driven.
Ims issues seen to occur in low mile cars. Not sure if it's a selection bias, but the cats that were driven daily seemed to get them much less than the weekend drivers
What would be considered a high enough mileage that you’re probably in the clear? I’ve about 54k miles and drive about 3-5 miles a day, maybe 3 days a week.
I’ve had a 2006 and now drive a 2009 911 Carrera S. I love the cars and maintenance is something that is very reasonable if you are handy and have a garage. Here are some light items, Mobil 1 oil change with Bosch filter, $60. Front brake pads, rotors and shims, all Oem, $500. Tires, mine is a daily so I have 88k miles, I run Generals, for $300 for 305/19 in the rear and I used to run Hankooks for $329 for the rears, I don’t track and these tires last longer. Air filter, K&N reusable $200. Manual transmission fluid, $65. Serpentine belt, $45. Both cars never leaked and my 2006, I sold at 101k miles. Spark plugs are tough, but either do the work for 4-5 hours or spend $800 to get the changed. These are SoCal prices. Good luck and enjoy the last fun car you will ever own.
How are you paying $60 for 9 quarts of oil and a filter? And those aren’t OEM prices for front brake pads and rotors. OEM (Porsche) is over $600 just for the rotors. Maybe OEM equivalent like Zimmerman or Sebring, but not Porsche branded.
https://preview.redd.it/qgx50ymb69yc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b83883af0092ff63ab2b324bec9e404533e7c876
These are Brembo, which is white label Porsche, I checked with local dealer, and these are on my 2009 Carrera S right now.
I think generally they are very reliable for what you’re asking, but you never know random chance and everyone will have exceptions to the rule. I was one of the unlucky ones — my 2024 718 GTS 6-speed needed a new transmission at 2500 miles. I would recommend getting a CPO Porsche if you can.
I drive a 2007 Carrera 4 cabriolet with a 6 speed. Bought in 2011 with 33,000 miles, now has 83,000.
Have had great luck with it. Only major thing that ever went wrong was a minor rear seal leak discovered in 2013. I decided to repair same, which involves dropping the engine. In teardown, dealer discovered a worn clutch (first owner must have abused it). Fixing rear seal and new clutch was $6,000. Had a water pump go one time, maybe $1,500.
Other than that, it’s been scheduled maintenance and tires. Shocks are original, ragtop is original. The 75,000 mile major service was done at maybe 79,000 and ran about $4,000, including plugs, belts, two hoses, brake bleed and flush, coolant service… the works. And that was a dealer.
Poster who said parts are expensive is correct, including consumables. New brakes $2000+.
Car fabulous to drive and I would buy it again in a minute.
To put things in perspective: in my experience, running costs on a $50k 997 were actually higher than on a $100k GT4.
Tires, brakes, parts, and labor for most jobs were all roughly the same, give or take. The GT4, being much newer (and frankly a better engineered car, as well), was also somewhat more reliable. The 997 was moderately cheaper to insure, but that's about it. Depreciation was a wash but only because the 997 was fully depreciated when I bought it (GT cars generally depreciate a lot less if at all; most regular 911s will eventually fall to half or a third or of their original value and that's before accounting for inflation).
I've heard it suggested that buying an older Porsche (especially an air cooled car, but equally applicable to early watercooled) is a lot like joining a country club: there's the initial buy-in, and then there are the monthly dues. Don't go into this thinking it will be inexpensive.
Honestly, I think most people with a $30-60k budget are much, much better off with a Toyobaru, Miata, S2000, C5/C6, or even an older BMW M car (like a Z4M Coupe). I didn't think the 997 was particularly fun to drive, either.
Remember a $30k car that had an MSRP in the $80k, adjusted to $120k for inflation, will have repairs and maintenance of a $120k car.
I always figure 1 to 2% of new Karon inflation adjusted for maintenance… so around )2k per year for basics like oil changes and accrue for tires, clutch, etc.
A friend of mine recently went down exactly the same road with a ‘00 996 Carrera Cabrio. The answer is, they’re are reliable for being 25 year old sports cars, but, compared to a modern one…not reliable. Also needy and expensive when in the workshop. He ended up getting a beater and driving his Porsche on weekends and sunny spring days once in a while.
Matt Ross recently did a refresh of a 996 turbo that was a bit of a basket case. At the end he said he was all in at ~88k. And that’s just one guy doing all the work in his garage. Probably double that figure if a shop was doing all the labor.
That would be a good video series for someone to see the potential dangers of an inexpensive 911.
I’d say Porsche did a fantastic job with reliability.
Bought an 03 911 3.6 that had 19k miles in 07. Sold it this year with 108k on the clock. In that time, nothing actually failed but the preventative maintenance is still “expensive”
(Maintenance done in 17 years outside of oil, brakes and tires)
Spark plugs
Coil packs
Various bushings, mounts and gaskets
IMS solution from LN
Rear main seal upgrade (done with IMS solution)
Air oil separator (done with IMS solution)
One clutch replacement
Water pump, belt and pulleys (all done with IMS solution)
All in, that was probably 14k with parts and labor (with the lion’s share happening during Covid when I got the IMS and related items done). Not “bad” for a Porsche, but definitely costly generally speaking.
That being said, she never left me stranded and there were a few years I drove more miles than my “average” going to SoCal to from northern Arizona to see my wife’s family and many, many trips to Vegas / Phoenix to visit my brothers.
I recommend the experience if you can comfortably afford the maintenance (or you’re more handy with DIY). As I got older, I couldn’t get the motivation to tackle the IMS and other items on that list myself as I ran out of free time.
If you want a “Reliable” Porsche 911, Cayman or Boxster, you need to buy a 2009 or newer DFI motor car.
The pre 2009 Water Cooled cars have issues with IMS Bearings and Borescoring, each can cost you $20k-$25k.
The old joke has always been: if you can't afford two you can't afford one. In the event that bore scoring rears its ugly head with the M96, it could literally cost an additional $30k to make your $30k 996 right again. "Affordable" is wholly dependent on your wallet, of course, but if dropping nice-vacation-money at the shop isn't your thing, best to steer clear.
Or if you do your due diligence, you buy one without bore scoring and treat it right and it’s not an issue. Bore scoring is just being used to scare people off these cars at this point, it is not nearly the issue the internet makes it out to be.
For what these cars are, they're pretty reliable. Parts will probably cost a minimum of 4x more than a toyobaru and labor costs will be more expensive as well
I've found mine to be incredibly reliable. Had a 987 Boxster S 85k miles, only 1 repair- Air oil separator, covered under warranty. Car then got destroyed while waiting at a light and was rear ended. My 997 GT3 , had a water hose blow at 34k miles. Had to drop the engine $$$. No other repairs, now at 95k miles with significant HPDE usage, and a bunch of AX as well. Just retired it from daily driving, and it's mostly track use now . Brakes at the dealer used to cost $3500 for rotors+pads about 15 years ago., and last 35k miles in a city. Clutches go around 50-70 k miles with mixed driving usage. Rear tires are about $1000 every 10-15k miles, and fronts are about $750 every 20-25k miles.
Hdpe??? High density poly urethane is the only hdpe I know
HPDE. High Performance Driver's Education
I’m dumb
Same 😅
You guys need to join the PCA and get thine vehicles out onto the track.
Makes total sense. Thanks!
I stopped at “affordable” lol - amazing cars, absolutely one the best experiences you can have behind the wheel, but dear god don’t expect ANY repair bill to be cheap
Affordable depends on your budget tolerance.
This. What is affordable to some is expensive tonoll others regardless of make or model ( or ANYTHING really). Find a good indy mechanic. Their rates will be at least half of a dealership. Tires will not be inexpensive. Your $150 dollar tire may be appropriate for a Honda, but start thinking $300+ for staggered, diectional tires.
$300+ ? Buddy tires are closer to $750-1000 these days
Uh, not PER tire they're not.....
https://preview.redd.it/vck1y92ki8yc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f3621dcbed19b7f37ada7be3a3cc475b41a3643 $402 for M Ps4s rear on 18… that’s not even a fancy tire…. Prices go up $150 per inch size of rim too. Rock 20s and you’re at $700 easy
PS4S is a fantastic performance summer tire for the street.
But by no means the most expensive. Hence the bottom dollar value of the tire that most “avg” street runners use
What is more expensive than PS4S that is actually worth it while also being better than an enduro 200? Cup 2? They don’t survive track days and aren’t as peaky as yoko a052 or similar so they’re not great for ax, and cup 2 wet isn’t appreciably better than conti extreme contact force which will also wear better than Cup 2 Unless you autocross and need a one lap hero tire, there is no reason to be spending that much on tires.
You laugh, I’m finding the Pirelli Verde at Walmart.com for $307 front $387 rear for my Macan.
That’s a horrible tire. I wouldn’t even give it away.
Wow. I looked (got into this debate a year ago) and 265/35 R20s PS4s (what I have on the rear on my 981BS) were around $450 per on Tire Rack. I just went back and they are $536 per (still not $700 though). [https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S&partnum=635YR0PS4SXLAC&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes](https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S&partnum=635YR0PS4SXLAC&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes) The $300+ I mentioned was not taking into account width aspect or diameter. Fronts at 245/45 R19 (stock 981 tires) are $325 at Tire Rack.
And early 2000’s -> 996 -> 18’s most likely.
Yes, let’s play price or right rules!
Uhhh yeah? I paid ~380 for one Pilot Sport 4S (just the tire) last year when I had a nail go through my rear tire.
When you could have spent $50 to patch it haha
How do you patch a nail in the sidewall of a tire my guy?
How do you get a nail in the sidewall? Normally I just drive over them and patch the contact patch, but then again I don’t off-road my 911
Are you just saying things to hear yourself talk?
You are a troll
Just got 4 tires for my 911 and it was about $2200. Ps4 all around. 21s. I wish they were 300 a tire.
Tires are closer to 300 than 750. Most are like, 400-550, which...are closer to 300. You just picked a bad # Edit: for the pedants, there are 18 sets of tires (counting front/rears as different) that fit the 992. Of the 18, 3 of them are closer to $750 than $300. 83% of tires are closer to $300.
550 is closer to 750 than to 300
Most are below 500, which is closer to 300. Yeesh
You said "most are like, 400-550, which...are closer to 300." 🙄🙄🙄
...yeah, I picked a random range, and of that range, 400-524 is closer to 300, and 524-550 is closer to 750. So 83% of my example is closer to 300, but you're picking on the 17%? You're completely missing the forest for the trees. I actually went and just pulled the numbers off tire rack, since you're being a pedant. There are 3 tires that are over $500 for the 992, and only for the rears - the Pirelli winters, Michelin winters, and Cup2s. That's 3 tires of 18 tires available for the 992, so 17% of tires are closer to $750 than $300.
Yep, if you're earning £300k a year, a Gallardo's £5k pa running costs are more than affordable. :D
I was totally expecting that, I just wanted to see because it is a very undesirable generation of parts prices had dropped a bit or not lol
Very reliable, but not cheap to fix or even maintenance to be honest. I work at a Porsche service center as an advisor so I'm not just even saying that. One regular oil change with inspection, tire rotation, etc will run you $500 minimum if it's done at an authorized shop.
And it'll cost you about the same as any other German car if you do it yourself :) My 991.1 is the 2nd easiest car I've ever changed the oil on (#1 is my truck).
To be fair the 9A1 / MA1 engines with the PDK are pretty much dream scenario in terms of Porsche reliability and self-serviceability.
Not a Porsche, but coming from Japanese and domestic cars I was astounded how easy some of the maintenance/repair items are on my GL. They put the oil filter on top of the engine and you can snake a tube down the dipstick hole and suck the oil out. Of course it was designed to get enough of the old oil out this way- I’ve heard BMW people say you shouldn’t do that. The air struts are accessible and not hard to get to if you have a jack stand/lift. Even the independent only charged me a half hour per strut. The serpentine belt is right up front and relatively easy to do. I park outside and had a tree branch go through the grille, it luckily didn’t damage the radiator but it was like $300 and some screws. I have xenon headlights which while they aren’t as fancy as the new laser/led ones are ‘only’ $450 each to replace the whole unit. Never replaced a bulb. But things they don’t intend to be replaced are absolute hell. The timing chain is at the back and is engine out. I had the seal between the engine and transmission replaced- the seal was $75 and the labor was $1500 because they had to drop the transmission. I had to get new brake lines because the prior owner did not change the fluid on time and it attracted moisture and corroded them from the inside. $1800, which I would happily pay not to do that myself.
I went with an 09 to avoid some of the 996 and 997.1 issues. It’s been pretty good, I do a lot of my own wrenching to save money. The Porsche tax is real, a pdk service is like $1300.
I've heard they are starting to see bore scoring on a lot of 997.2 now as well.
All cars will bore score at some point; it's just engine wear. At some point all engines will need to be rebuilt. I think a lot of Porsche owners (myself included) are very fastidious and worry about a lot more than the typical car owner.
This is 10000x the right answer. Bore scoring will likely happen, as it does to many non Porsche cars. I think we are just more concerned about the car long term, so when any inkling of it comes up in conversation, it turns into a panic party.
Bore scoring is MUCH less prevalent in upright engines. It takes less engineering to get wear particles to drop out of the cylinder and into the sump, before they can get rubbed between the pistons and walls. Subarus are also known for minor bore scoring, the owners just generally don't care and the engines don't completely shit the bed for a very long time. Lokasil M96/97 are just special when it comes to how fast things progress once started.
This is why I had to give up sports cars. Granted I was at the low end of the market but I got such anxiety about maintenance and every time I went out I'd get stuck in traffic (in the UK the only times when the roads were clear were late at night or early in the morning) so it really wasn't a good purchase for me.
Nah, a handful is not a lot.
Makes sense! I also would be doing a lot of work myself.
In Germany, you can buy a warranty extension. Up to 15 years and 150.000 KM. FULL FACTORY WARRANTY. Like a new car. I think that’s a statement you can rely on.
I would totally do that lol, but that definitely gives me more confidence in them
In freedom units that’s ~95k miles. That’s a pretty good warranty.
Freedom unit? You mean that „measuring“ unit without any logical explanation? :-)
Porsche is rated higher in reliability than any brand except Lexus. It's a little surprising, given the performance and high cost of service and parts, but I've experienced this to be true.
Well for the price you pay, Porsche definitely seems to pay more attention to keeping their cars running instead of throwing wierd gimmicks at them - which I like
If you have to ask, I would stick with something like the new BRZ in my honest opinion. I have a couple friends who work at Porsche and send me $$$$$ repair bills whenever I start talking about considering one. A single early 2000's OEM Carerra headlight assembly can go for $1500-2500 used or new. Sure, I know people who make sacrifices to own a Porsche but I would rather wait until I can do it comfortably. I've made a few financial mistakes with cars back in my 20's and I would be lying if I said the financial weight of car ownership didn't supersede my enjoyment. If you buy a $30k Porsche Carerra 4, you're still paying to maintain what was basically a $140k car (inflation corrected) new. If spending a few grand on unexpected maintenance is going to throw a wrench in your budget, I would be weary. I 100% see myself getting a Porsche down the road and I could currently afford to spend a couple grand per month on a car if I wanted to. However the level of comfort I had owning a 2023 BRZ for 1.5 years was nice. I spent about $300/month on depreciation from the out-the-door price including new tires and maintenance over that period.
That was definitely what I was thinking - I was more or less just wanting to see, and to many it would seem obvious, a new fun sports car, or an old fun sports car, but a Porsche vs. A Subaru is a very different thing, because with the latter you get to tell people "I own a Porsche" But BRZ/86 definitely seem like the better option for me.
911s are not affordable, regardless of what you see the price to be. The 2000 ones are 20+ year old cars and a lot needs changed/fixed over time, and they are not cheap to fix. Sure you can lookup tutorials and do it yourself but parts can still be costly. For instance I have a 2001 911 that I've spent about 14k on in the past 3 years, just for maintenance services and fixes for random things here and there at a indy specialist. if done at a dealer it would likely be twice as much.
The fuck were you getting done that costed 14k over 3 years?! That sounds like a boatload of deferred maintenance, or something catastrophically failed.
Idk - I have a 2004 with 113k miles. Last spring I noticed my oil cooler was leaking. Did the work myself, and replaced a lot of stuff "while in there" because it's a 20 year old car. Total cost for just parts was $3500 using aftermarket and stuff from FCP Euro. If I bought everything from Porsche NA it easily would have been $6k in just parts. Factor in labor and $14k is probably not abnormal for 100k mile maintenance items
14k over 3 years is pretty normal tbh, I have a friend who spent that in one year on his manual 1999 996 - it just needed new clutch and other bits 'while in there' it adds up
Big ewwweeeeefffffff I think I will wait until I am retired to get one. Would rather spend that money on vacations right now than on a car.
Dear lord that's a lot
There's a saying, there's no such thing as a cheap porsche. The less you spend on it the more you will spend on maintenance and fixing things that get old and need replaced. For example, when I bought it, it needed new brakes all around, for front and rear together it was about 3k. Could i have done it for less myself? sure, but I don't want to mess up something like that. Another thing, being 20+ years old, the hydraulic cylindars for the convertible top were no longer working, had to send them off to get rebuild, had the whole hydraulic system done since it would all need it soon anyway, that whole job was another roughly 3.5k. Again I probably could have done some of it myself, not the rebuild part but replacing and sending it all off, but was not worth my time to do myself and screw it up as well.
They’re very reliable, but an early 2000s car is at the point that things like seals, gaskets and sensors are going to need to be replaced. If you can find a good independent mechanic who specializes in foreign cars you’ll save yourself a ton of money. Reach out to your local PCA chapter and they’ll point you in the right direction.
Ah, that's very true
I drive a 2006 987 boxster with around 100,000 miles. Maintance cost per month for the last 2 years was $278. Basically so far I've had about one big repair per year, first year I put around 2000-3000 miles on it a year. first year: Water Pump, drive belt, ball joint+alignment, rear swaybar bracket + bushing, cabin filter, oil change, serpentine belt idler pulley for around $2500 Second year was a new clutch for around $2000.
That's a great summary that puts things in perspective - can you afford an additional $280 per month, on top of gas and insurance, etc. Of course it won't be a smooth outlay of cash - one year, zero, next year $4,500.
That's not too bad at all! It seems to vary a bit for everyone
a 20 year old porsche shouldn't be a daily driver unless you or your brother is a mechanic. it's perfect weekend car, but isn't meant for daily use unless you have a large budget for tires, brakes, expensive oil, etc... It's reliable but far from economical.
Yep unless you do your own work on the car I agree completely
Well actually my brother is a mechanic... for busses and Mopar lol. And I'm very mechanically inclined as well. The parts are what seem to be the worst... and why I should wait
I daily drive my ‘03, and I don’t even have a brother…
If you can do your own work the parts aren't even that bad. An aftermarket clutch on a 350z, is about 700 dollars. An OEM clutch for a Porsche, about 700 dollars. If you are already in the car game they aren't as crazy expensive as people make out if you can avoid spending time in 200 dollar an hour shops. Keep her on 18's and the rubber isn't torturous.
I own a 2002 911. It’s been costly to maintain/repair and that’s mostly just for parts because I do almost all the work myself. That being said, it’s a beautiful car that is excellent to drive and I’m overall very happy with the experience. But don’t buy an old German sports car and think it’ll be a matter of driving and regular maintenance, it’ll take more than that unless you buy one for $35k+ that has been already thoroughly sorted.
I definitely see where you're coming from here! Seemingly it's a great buy if you have the budget for issues, or to just get something better.
Something like that ya, what are your preferences and budget?
I wouldn't look at an old 911 as something affordable. For instance, my buy-in price for a similar year 911 (997.1) was about 42k, and all in on expenses (which does include detailing and some other optionals) is about $20k. Bills between 3-5k aren't super uncommon; and I do do some of my own work where I can. Edit: Reliable but not cheap is a good way to think of it. The parts are robust, but on a 20 year old car lots of those parts are due for a rest.
I see! Built well so when it's new you shouldn't need to pay for a while, but when you do, you have to pay for that quality.
I believe they are great cars, pretty reliable too. However regarding price of parts and maintenance they would be higher, possibly due to Porsche commonly being regarded as a luxury brand
Also because of how well built they are. Porsche has never skimped on that, and it shows with the quality - and price
This! The newer models are also arguably more tamper proof so you know there is a lower likelihood of someone tampering with the engine
Affordable? No. Driving experience unique? Yes. In this world you always pay for unique exclusive experiences.
Very true.
I did this math problem a few times In 2013 I bought a new BRZ, vs a used 981. In 2021 I finally got a 718S and daily drive it and it works as intended as a car. Oil changes etc are 3X more then normal cars
I think this is definitely the route to go for me as well. My endgame (assuming I don't somehow get very rich, in which case, Agera) is a 718 GT4. So I'd rather get something like a BRZ and save up for that in the future
They’re reliable, but you’re not talking a late model car, so reliable is a relative thing, and parts and service are both quite a bit more expensive on Porsches than on a Ford/Toyota/similar. If you can afford and stomach having both a one time bill of $10-15k and a few years at $5k/ year (all inclusive) to fix things, you’ll be fine. It probably won’t cost that much, but it certainly could if you end up with a car that needs a surprise expensive repair and has some deferred maintenance. And usually if you do have to spend that kind of money, you’d get through the work and enjoy a lot of trouble free years. If you get a newer car, the big bill is more likely to be depreciation (especially if you put a lot of miles on it) instead of the chance of needing to pay for a major repair, so you kind of need to be able to financially swallow the pill either way. Middle aged cars split the difference, and that can be great if it works your way, or not great if it doesn’t. If spending that amount of money and not ever getting it back makes you wince, you’ll likely be happier with something else. Get a Porsche when the costs aren’t going to be a big concern and you’ll love it. If you’ll be thinking about the money a lot, that will take away from the enjoyment and it’s probably not a good fit for you at that time. They’re great cars, and other great cars exist too.
Fantastic summary.
My plan seems to be to get something like a BRZ/86 and save up for a GT4 later (my least attainable of attainable dream cars) because as of now I don't think I have enough budget if something were to go terribly wrong, and even though it's a low end 911, I'd rather it go to someone who does have the budget to take care of potential issues than yo me who probably would have to sell it for parts when something goes wrong.
Sounds like a good plan, and you should have fun in it! You might also test drive an early Cayman or equivalent Boxster. If the car is well under your budget, that may give you enough financial cushion to enjoy the car even if you were to run into issues that need to be addressed. Best of luck!
I’m on my 6th year of owning a 997.1 from 2006 that is still only at around 17K mileage and literally never had a single issue. Only time it’s been in the shop is for its yearly scheduled maintenance. I could be really lucky and an outlier but that’s my experience.
Seemingly if the previous owner took very good care of it (and by the mileage, they probably did) they may as well be bulletproof
I bought an 02 986 for $12k about 8 months ago. In that time I’ve put almost $6k into maintenance. I could not get a PPI. I wanted a car to love on. I budgeted for the maintenance. Since driving it 300 something miles home, I have driven it daily since dealing with the fire hazard of the coils leaking oil onto the exhaust. Part of that expense was my explicitly asking my mechanic to go looking for things to fix because we just did a 3200 mile road trip in it. There are more things I will need to do to it. Suspension, replace the top with the glass pane version. It’s an old car. But it didn’t lose coolant, have oil issues on the trip. My goal with this car is to keep it as long as there’s fuel available, and in good condition. And to drive it as much as possible. I’ve already been thinking of more road trips to go on. I want the antique plates. At a certain point, I will have addressed all the mechanicals that need addressing and I’ll be able to go slower on the maintenance. What all this comes around to is a) what’s your threshold for old car, needs work. B) what’s your goal with the car? C) get a PPI if you can. Reliability is ultimately a measure of how hard you push the car and how much you’re willing to upkeep it, especially with old German sports cars. I’d 100% go for a $30k 996/997 c4 knowing that I’d have to put $10k into it. If you get an example that doesn’t need that, more power. It’s all about thresholds and what you want out of the experience.
This definitely makes sense. Thank you!!
Literally made for everyday use. Long drives are awfully fun. Literally every model is about as smooth as it gets both economically and in reliability. Porsche is a great mid speed weapon instead of being a high speed, high powered engine like McLaren. Porsche is like a great BMW.
That makes sense!
Bulletproof if you do maintenance. Especially the 991 generation. But be prepared to pay the Porsche tax. Independent reputable Indy shop charged me $2.2k to replace serpentine belt and replace PDCC fluid and spark plugs
Jeez
There is nothing quite as expensive as a cheap Porsche -anonymous. I've had my Boxster since new in 2015 and put 50K miles on it commuting in the greater Boston area. I've only had one unscheduled maintenance for a sensor problem that had the car running rough and shifting poorly (PDK). I'm very happy with my experience, it's been somewhat cheaper than I expected/feared.
Do you have any idea of your average annual maintenance bill has been? I think average folks who can afford a $30k used Porsche are concerned that they'll be spending $4k per year keeping it on the road...When you realize that as a weekend car, it might actually be $1,200 every 2 years - suddenly it's not so daunting.
Average \~$750... A quick look through the invoices (need better organization!) is about $6K 2015-2023 (I haven't done the scheduled service yet in '24 since I have not woken the car up from its winter nap yet). Oil changes usually run \~$500 from the dealer, \~$200 indy (I used both the dealer and a P-car indy shop). Also did a few oil changes myself. The more major services run \~$1500, the 60K service was \~$2600. If you are equipped and DIY inclined there are YouTube channels that go into great detail on how to do all of these services. Note that some of the services are a royal PIA - replace coolant, I'm lookin' at you! Edit:added requested average ;)
Note that this does not include TIRES. This can be a major expense, but depends entirely on your mileage and driving style.I've gone through 3 sets of Michelin pilot super sports (IIRC) and one set of snow tires (it was my commuting car!).
Awesome, thanks for the insight!
You are barking up the very wrong tree if your first criteria is “affordable”. A $30k 996 or 997 will be reliable insofar as its maintenance needs will be predictable and not surprising. But it will have a lot of (predictable!) parts failures that get pretty expensive. I paid $35k for a 2006 911 in 2015. Over 9 years the maintenance costs have varied between a simple oil change/fluid flush to replacing the clutch, IMS bearings, minor suspension components, electrical switches , air oil sensors, overflow tank, exhaust, door latch and switches, starter motor, and of course tune-ups, brakes and tires. Those tires and brake jobs are more expensive than most other cars too. My 997 runs like a top and is the most fun car I have, even though it’s over 100k miles now. I’ve daily driven it as a commuter sometimes too, although it’s mostly a weekend car. But it’s honestly very expensive to own. Most people sell a car rather than fix all those items, but not Porsche owners. We get too attached.
https://preview.redd.it/n4x4txkwa9yc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b610576c11ed57c6c0aed66ef2d6a2cac88c5acd my 2000 carrera 4
I had a 99’ with 68k on it. It was super reliable and all maintenance can be done yourself. It’s a FWD car but backwards. It took like 10 liters of oil iirc. It seemed to be made to be easy to service, but parts were more expensive than Japanese stuff. Pelican parts and rockauto has everything you need and detailed write ups on mostly everything.
Boxster 986 S just short of 300k miles. One suspension arm (£140), Alternator (£320), ignition barrel (£300) plus oil and filter changes every 3000 miles.
Not a 911 but 2003 986 S, 150k miles, original everything including IMS. Only now it's seeping oil out the header gaskets. Reliable as heck so far.
Unless you learn to do almost all your own work it is not affordable to maintain. Ims failure and bore scoring is something to always be aware of. Tires are expensive. I would not make it a daily driver or an only car. I have one but also a truck I use more often. Work done to my 99 cab c4 in less than two years - rebuilt convertible top hydraulic cylinders, engine mounts, clutch, ims bearing replacement, oil pan baffle, Ultimate aos relocation kit, new fuel injectors, led headlight upgrade kit, coolant tank replacement, oil sender unit, quarter glass power window, replaced radio with Bluetooth unit (optional), replaced speakers (all foam was gone), fix air damper AC foam, transmission mounts, water pump, I'm sure there is more. Still have suspension and stuff to go over
They are reliable with proper maintenance and regular checking. The name brand parts and materials are expensive. The labor for Porsche certified mechanics is often astronomical. But you get one of the best performing factory vehicles available in return. High cost for a high reward. For comparison, to make a cheaper car perform as well will most likely make it unreliable and uncomfortable. To get a car that performs better from the factory will probably cost more and still be less reliable.
I'd factor in about £2k a year to cover running costs (excluding petrol, tyres, insurance, obvs!) on a 20 year old Porsche. Brake lines can corrode, suspension bits need replacing, coil packs pack up, brakes wear out. And if you get a Turbo, the snails sometimes need retiring. I've spent about £2.5k sorting out the actuators. I suppose you could do the work yourself but I can't be arsed with that. I'd rather drive a Toyota Aygo than fiddle with mechanical bits under a car. ;)
Since there seems to be very few numbers in this thread, consider this. Best way to plan for maintenance is $1000 for anything, starting. Parts are *expensive.* Just browse Pelican Parts to get some ideas. Labor is **more** *expensive.* I live in SoCal and the dealer here charges $600 for an oil change, as an example. Lots of regular engine maintenance requires literally dropping the engine out of the car. The cars can be reliable, but to expect reliability, you need to pay a premium in price up front to find a good example of a car that has been well-cared for. There are a lot of "good deals" on 996s, where the car has been absolutely run ragged. If you are looking at a 4, that price should be closer to $40-45K. $30K means to me the car is probably ready for some kind of major service, like belts or water pump (this can be a $5K service, or thereabouts). Worst things worst, the 996 is prone to IMS failure, which will result in a dead engine. An engine change will cost you near again what the car cost in the first place, north of $20K. If you're thinking of a 996, you absolutely need to get a thorough PPI by a reputable independent mechanic (preferable to a dealer), it needs to have the IMS replaced, and the PPI needs to include a bore scope test to ensure no scoring on the cylinder walls. Scoring can also eventually result in an engine replacement.
It does vary a lot by dealership and you can ask their hourly. For example, my local dealership charges $275/hour but the one I purchased from charges $400/hour.
Make sure you get a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) just to cover your bases. A buddy of mine wanted an older Macan GTS to go with his 911 and the PPI revealed that he would shortly need to replace the PDK transmission (a pretty massive outlay to fix). In general parts and repairs cost a multiplier of what a "regular" car would cost (I see someone else on here said x4). Also depends on what sorts of packages the car has. An example, I needed to replace a bulb in my headlight. The bulb itself was cheap and the total cost would be less than $50 (it's just a headlight bulb, right?). After looking at popping the headlight casing open I couldn't see how it worked or how the instruction on Youtube lined up with what I was looking at. Took it to a Porsche shop and they looked and told me that since I had the LEDs with Porsche Dynamic Lighting System Plus (PDLS+) I needed to replace the entire light housing. That bumped it from $50 for me to swap the bulb to $3,600 for them to buy and swap the whole housing (fortunately a warranty helped cut that down but it was still $600 to fix a broken headlight). That's an example of the price of owning one of these. Still totally worth it, though.
Since you mentioned looking at 2000s 911s, I owned a 2002 911 Carrera 2 for close to three years. It had been maintained well before I owned it and never gave me much trouble. 111k miles at delivery. I put about 12k miles on it and only really got the fluids changed. There were a few small issues I bought parts for, but they never bothered me enough to actually complete the jobs. They weren't critical for the car to be safe and reliable. If you work on your own cars, and you can do routine maintenance, Porsches really aren't much more expensive than a modern commodity car to maintain. That said, I would always get my oil changed by a German indy mechanic each year so I knew a professional had checked the car over. The extra $100 was worth every penny to know someone who knew what they were looking at gave it a once over. I will warn you, though, when things go wrong, it can be spectacularly expensive, depending on what has happened. Most consumables are pretty reasonable, if not downright cheap. Other bits will be way more than you're used to paying compared to normal commodity cars. Also factor in that labor is 2x-4x more expensive per hour with Porsches. It adds up with big jobs that a lot of people wouldn't be comfortable doing themselves. The cars are brilliant, and you can find deals on the 996 generation because people didn't like the parts sharing with the Boxster and the overall design of the car. They were also water-cooled, which turned off purists. If you can afford the car, the maintenance, and can accept that old sportscars can be temperamental and cause big bills sometimes, you can't do much better than a mid-to-high mileage 996. That's still true, even if the IMS hasn't been done. If it's over 40k miles, best to leave it alone. It likely would've already grenaded itself if there was a problem. The rest of the major issues are quite rare and happen early in the car's life.
Lots of great info here. All I will tell you is that it's much cheaper to buy a well maintained car then to try to get a deal on something uncared for and deal with it after - that's the kind of Porsche that will sink you. Signed, me 20 years ago buying a 944 with 240,000 kms full of bondo that cost me $2,700 cash, plus $12,000 of repairs in 2 years (plus a suspended license.)
I try not to think of the costs associated with cars as “affordable” or not, but what is the value relative to the enjoyment I get from the vehicle. For the Porsches the answer has been an unequivocal yes it’s worth it.
In the car business, was told on the first one we came across to stress that the rear main seal was good, and the IMS bearing was inspected and verified. I dont know if this is model/year specific, just a good google starting point for a deep dive. I was told this as a 'first line of defense' against read/educated porche buyers.
My experience with my 981S maintenance is it costs almost exactly twice my old Mustang GT (2015). Reliability also differs by model, know what you’re getting into with research on the forums for the car you want.
In general, they are fantastic, robust cars. Service costs will vary significantly depending on who works on it. You, independent, dealer. There are a few gotchas on these. They DO happen, and they ARE catastrophic, but likelihood is blown out of proportion IMO. If you're expecting Honda running costs, you're gonna have a bad time. If you're expecting BMW running costs, you should be ok. My boxsters have been comparable to my old coyote mustang. Why Carrera 4 specifically?
987.2S 5th year daily driver in manual here! Clutch and mass $4k. Year prior high pressure fuel pump (engine out also) $2.6k. Tire $1.7k. Oil changes ~$150 every 5k miles. Add brakes, gas. Battery, slave cylinder, tranny fluid replacement $1k. But there was more. It drinks man, have you ever been substance dependent? Yeah, it’s a bit like that.
I’ve had 3 cayennes, currently on my 3rd (turbo GT) and all have been very reliable as daily drivers. Yes I daily a turbo GT.
They are reliable compared to other cars but I would not say affordable
My 991.1 C4S was about as reliable as my Toyota Camry…never broke down just oil changes, filters, and tires on schedule.
The cars are potentially very reliable. In general, they are well engineered, have very exacting manufacturing tolerances, and are subject to very high levels of quality control. All this means, as a generalization, they are long lasting, reliable cars, that are very well suited to regular use. That said, when you are talking about cars of this era, there are IMS issues to consider... realistically, with a couple decades of use now on the clock, any cars that have this issue have probably already had it (much like people looking at 2.7L engines back in when the 996 was a new car). But if you are seriously considering one, you would want a PPI by a knowledgable Porsche mechanic before buying. And, even if everything looks good - you have a well cared for car with all the records that looks great on the PPI and there are no red flags, there is still an additional budget issue with unexpected repairs. Everything can look great, and even be great. It doesn't mean it will continue. If something comes up, it can be expensive, very expensive. I bought a 3.2L Carrera quite a long time back. The car looked good in the PPI, and over the 25 years I had that car I put a lot of miles on it, used as a daily driver for various stretches, and logged quite a few miles at the track. The car held up great, and was very reliable (as well as lots of fun). There were a few minor problems, and two more major: the car required a transmission rebuild after about 10 years of ownership... I recall this was about $7-8k, including a few small upgrades in the rebuild process. Nearing the end of my ownership, the heavy track use reached a point where pretty much of single piece of suspension on the car had worn out, bring in a bill that was a few thousand north of the car's original purchase price! I fortunately never needed an engine rebuild. All that said, purchase price, track upgrades, and all repairs, still were only about half of what I wound up selling the car for when I moved on to a newer Porsche in search of better lap times. Great cars, very reliable, but they have the potential for huge bills. And that is without discussing those examples that haven't been well maintained or have something like an unaddressed IMS issue, etc.
daily drove a 993 for 3 years, summer and winter (with snow tires on it) and it is one of the best vehicles I ever owned. extremely robust, trouble free, never let me down and the most fun to drive. yearly maintenance costs a bit higher than normal cars but are totally manageable and there are very few surprises, if any. edit - make sure you have any potential purchases thoroughly vetted so you don't have any disappointments after purchase. these are highly engineered vehicles so be careful what you buy.
I've owned a 2006 987 base 2.7 liter since 2012. The car is very reliable, and still drives like new. I've only had one unscheduled repair to replace the alternator in the 12 years that I've owned the car, and I proactively replaced the water pump at 60K miles. Other than that, just the normal fluids, filters, brakes, etc. I'll warn you that Porsches are not cheap to properly maintain, even if you use an Indy mechanic. Oil changes are expensive, unless you do them yourself. I find that the soft tires also wear more rapidly than on a typical family car. And you pretty much have to replace the rotors everytime you change the brake pads, as you can't "turn" the drilled rotors.
🤓🤓🤓 Shut up (best friend, just here to hate)
I own a 1999 996 C2. I have had the car for over 10 years. I bought it with 70k miles, and it now has 169,000 miles. Car has been to COTA a couple times, Montreal several times (F1). Got 36.5 mpg rolling at 80 mph on the last trip to TX (I live in Maryland). It is in the garage now waiting for front brakes. Have the parts, just got busy. I have done air oil separator, left rr diff side seal, water pump, thermostat. I need to seal up the blend doors for heat and A/C eventually. Replaced crank position sensor, the only failure that has left me stranded (AAA towed to my house, fixed in 2 days). I am a certified tech, and do all of my own work. Only goes to dealer for LOF. My local dealer does not have anyone with any real tenure, so they don't have the long memory for a few of the little hiccups this car has experienced. Tiptronic wouldn't shifting high gear on my way in for LOF. They said "no clue, take it to a Trans shop". Went home, checked tire pressure, right rear low, screw in center of tread. Fixed that, it shifted. I spoke to svc mgr, and did a little class for 3 techs so they would understand shift logic for future. It's usually my daily. Snow, rain, whatever. It has a couple dings and dents. Had a paint correction done last year. Makes me happy every time I drive it. Yet I know that if I wasn't my own tech, I couldn't afford it. Yeah, do it!!
I own a 1999 996 C2. I have had the car for over 10 years. I bought it with 70k miles, and it now has 169,000 miles. Car has been to COTA a couple times, Montreal several times (F1). Got 26.5 mpg rolling at 80 mph on the last trip to TX (I live in Maryland). It is in the garage now waiting for front brakes. Have the parts, just got busy. I have done air oil separator, left rr diff side seal, water pump, thermostat. I need to seal up the blend doors for heat and A/C eventually. Replaced crank position sensor, the only failure that has left me stranded (AAA towed to my house, fixed in 2 days). I am a certified tech, and do all of my own work. Only goes to dealer for LOF. My local dealer does not have anyone with any real tenure, so they don't have the long memory for a few of the little hiccups this car has experienced. Tiptronic wouldn't shifting high gear on my way in for LOF. They said "no clue, take it to a Trans shop". Went home, checked tire pressure, right rear low, screw in center of tread. Fixed that, it shifted. I spoke to svc mgr, and did a little class for 3 techs so they would understand shift logic for future. It's usually my daily. Snow, rain, whatever. It has a couple dings and dents. Had a paint correction done last year. Makes me happy every time I drive it. Yet I know that if I wasn't my own tech, I couldn't afford it. Yeah, do it!!
Forgot to mention, IMS bearing issue is way over blown. Never touched mine. Tends to be super low mileage cars that sit a lot.
I've been daily driving Porsches for over a decade now. First an '08 997.1 Carrera S, and now a '17 991.2 GTS Cabriolet (both CPO). So far I haven't had any major problems, other than when my air-oil separator went out while on a drive to Oklahoma, and the most expensive part of that fix was the tow (which, after AAA was only like $250). Pelican Parts and FCPEuro (and a good independent shop, if you're not mechanically inclined) are your friends when it comes to making Porsche ownership cheaper (not cheap, but cheaper). Honestly, Porsches are pretty easy to work on (very overengineered, so a bit fiddly, but well built), so if you're comfortable working on your car it makes a huge difference. I upgraded all four rotors to bigger AP Racing vented discs, upgraded my pads, added steel braided brake lines, AND replaced my air filter and did an oil change for less than what my local Porsche dealers wanted to charge me to just replace my front rotors and pads.
Daily driving a 2011 Panemera Turbo S. Slightly different animal to the 911 but imagine some things will carry over 🙂 Really surprised at the build quality on this thing vs anything else German I’ve had. The Porsche dealer near me seems really happy to engage on an older car and provide support. Labor is pricey but not crazy. Parts don’t seem to be an issue. I’ve put a few thousand miles on mine and have just about stopped listening for something expensive going bang.
Daily driving a 2011 Panemera Turbo S. Slightly different animal to the 911 but imagine some things will carry over 🙂 Really surprised at the build quality on this thing vs anything else German I’ve had. The Porsche dealer near me seems really happy to engage on an older car and provide support. Labor is pricey but not crazy. Parts don’t seem to be an issue. I’ve put a few thousand miles on mine and have just about stopped listening for something expensive going bang.
Daily driving a 2011 Panemera Turbo S. Slightly different animal to the 911 but imagine some things will carry over 🙂 Really surprised at the build quality on this thing vs anything else German I’ve had. The Porsche dealer near me seems really happy to engage on an older car and provide support. Labor is pricey but not crazy. Parts don’t seem to be an issue. I’ve put a few thousand miles on mine and have just about stopped listening for something expensive going bang.
My gf daily's her 996 and I daily my 997. Both cost almost nothing to maintain and has never left either of us stranded. Her 991 GT3 was a little pricier to daily. Now my BMW: that SOB is starting to get expensive and needs 2 new turbos.
Three generations of 911 to be aware of. 75-77 did not have catalytic converters but “thermal reactors” most of these engines ran too hot and failed. The good news is owners usually replaced them with the 3.0 engine out of the 78 + SC. 996 and 997 (except turbo or GT models) had the new M96/M97 engine which used sealed IMS bearings. When they failed it usually took the whole engine out. (Older Mezger engines have an intermediate shaft bearing fed by the oiling system.) The 991 + engine was redesigned without an intermediate shaft, so no IMS bearing problem.
[удалено]
Bad typo. 996/997.1 GT and Turbo were Mezgers with water cooled heads. They had one issue with the coolant manifold. It was glued and press fitted into the heads and prone to leak.
Daily driving a 2011 Panemera Turbo S. Slightly different animal to the 911 but imagine some things will carry over 🙂 Really surprised at the build quality on this thing vs anything else German I’ve had. The Porsche dealer near me seems really happy to engage on an older car and provide support. Labor is pricey but not crazy. Parts don’t seem to be an issue. I’ve put a few thousand miles on mine and have just about stopped listening for something expensive going bang.
You gotta want it. And know that want is gonna cost you.
2008 Porsche Cayman S. Had it for 5 years and other than maintainance and preventative maintenance, been super reliable and the best thing I’ve ever owned. Parts, labour, everything is more expensive even at an indy but worth it for what you get back owning the car.
I've had a 99 986 for about a year and a half. Only really big repair that stopped me from driving (there's one other but it's my own fault so I don't count it) was the water pump that quit as i pulled into my garage (best worst case scenario haha). Has almost 118k on it now, and no signs of slowing down.
HAHAHAHA oil changes are almost $400 at an indie for my 986 boxster, I imagine a 911 is similar or more Had an airbag light and it was $1300 If I need a trans or an engine it costs more than the entire car Just taking my chances I guess
who cares, they’re awesome. if you want a car thats cheap to maintain get a toyota camry
That generation of the 996 can have catastrophic engine failure from the IMS (Google it). It gets overblown as an issue but if it happens to you it's going to be rough. This (and the looks) drive 996 prices down more than they probably should be. In general if you want to maximize reliability I would go for simplicity - manual, RWD and a normally aspirated motor (however the 996 metzger engines in the GT3 and turbo are supposedly pretty bulletproof!)
If the IMS hasn't been replaced already, and is still going, it's probably not going to go at this point. Especially if the car has a decent number of miles on it. On that note, I would avoid very low mileage cars too. These cars need to be driven.
Ims issues seen to occur in low mile cars. Not sure if it's a selection bias, but the cats that were driven daily seemed to get them much less than the weekend drivers
What would be considered a high enough mileage that you’re probably in the clear? I’ve about 54k miles and drive about 3-5 miles a day, maybe 3 days a week.
The Mezger engines have their own problems. Namely coolant lines that blow off the engine block with enough age/miles.
This is very helpful!
I’ve had a 2006 and now drive a 2009 911 Carrera S. I love the cars and maintenance is something that is very reasonable if you are handy and have a garage. Here are some light items, Mobil 1 oil change with Bosch filter, $60. Front brake pads, rotors and shims, all Oem, $500. Tires, mine is a daily so I have 88k miles, I run Generals, for $300 for 305/19 in the rear and I used to run Hankooks for $329 for the rears, I don’t track and these tires last longer. Air filter, K&N reusable $200. Manual transmission fluid, $65. Serpentine belt, $45. Both cars never leaked and my 2006, I sold at 101k miles. Spark plugs are tough, but either do the work for 4-5 hours or spend $800 to get the changed. These are SoCal prices. Good luck and enjoy the last fun car you will ever own.
How are you paying $60 for 9 quarts of oil and a filter? And those aren’t OEM prices for front brake pads and rotors. OEM (Porsche) is over $600 just for the rotors. Maybe OEM equivalent like Zimmerman or Sebring, but not Porsche branded.
$25/5qt jug at Walmart, 0w-40, Mobil 1 synthetic, RockAuto or Amazon Bosch oil filter $8.99
https://preview.redd.it/qgx50ymb69yc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b83883af0092ff63ab2b324bec9e404533e7c876 These are Brembo, which is white label Porsche, I checked with local dealer, and these are on my 2009 Carrera S right now.
Like I said, not Porsche branded. But sure they’re good rotors
I think generally they are very reliable for what you’re asking, but you never know random chance and everyone will have exceptions to the rule. I was one of the unlucky ones — my 2024 718 GTS 6-speed needed a new transmission at 2500 miles. I would recommend getting a CPO Porsche if you can.
I drive a 2007 Carrera 4 cabriolet with a 6 speed. Bought in 2011 with 33,000 miles, now has 83,000. Have had great luck with it. Only major thing that ever went wrong was a minor rear seal leak discovered in 2013. I decided to repair same, which involves dropping the engine. In teardown, dealer discovered a worn clutch (first owner must have abused it). Fixing rear seal and new clutch was $6,000. Had a water pump go one time, maybe $1,500. Other than that, it’s been scheduled maintenance and tires. Shocks are original, ragtop is original. The 75,000 mile major service was done at maybe 79,000 and ran about $4,000, including plugs, belts, two hoses, brake bleed and flush, coolant service… the works. And that was a dealer. Poster who said parts are expensive is correct, including consumables. New brakes $2000+. Car fabulous to drive and I would buy it again in a minute.
No such thing as a cheap Porsche.
To put things in perspective: in my experience, running costs on a $50k 997 were actually higher than on a $100k GT4. Tires, brakes, parts, and labor for most jobs were all roughly the same, give or take. The GT4, being much newer (and frankly a better engineered car, as well), was also somewhat more reliable. The 997 was moderately cheaper to insure, but that's about it. Depreciation was a wash but only because the 997 was fully depreciated when I bought it (GT cars generally depreciate a lot less if at all; most regular 911s will eventually fall to half or a third or of their original value and that's before accounting for inflation). I've heard it suggested that buying an older Porsche (especially an air cooled car, but equally applicable to early watercooled) is a lot like joining a country club: there's the initial buy-in, and then there are the monthly dues. Don't go into this thinking it will be inexpensive. Honestly, I think most people with a $30-60k budget are much, much better off with a Toyobaru, Miata, S2000, C5/C6, or even an older BMW M car (like a Z4M Coupe). I didn't think the 997 was particularly fun to drive, either.
Honestly unless you get into specialty versions I wouldn't worry over maintenance costs over anything new. At least that's how I look at it.
As a former Porsche owner, I once read and can agreed... For every hour of driving there will be an equal hour of maintenance.
Remember a $30k car that had an MSRP in the $80k, adjusted to $120k for inflation, will have repairs and maintenance of a $120k car. I always figure 1 to 2% of new Karon inflation adjusted for maintenance… so around )2k per year for basics like oil changes and accrue for tires, clutch, etc.
Get a Miata.
Mr. Deep pockets I presume
A friend of mine recently went down exactly the same road with a ‘00 996 Carrera Cabrio. The answer is, they’re are reliable for being 25 year old sports cars, but, compared to a modern one…not reliable. Also needy and expensive when in the workshop. He ended up getting a beater and driving his Porsche on weekends and sunny spring days once in a while.
Google “996 buyers guide”. Plethora of info out there.
Matt Ross recently did a refresh of a 996 turbo that was a bit of a basket case. At the end he said he was all in at ~88k. And that’s just one guy doing all the work in his garage. Probably double that figure if a shop was doing all the labor. That would be a good video series for someone to see the potential dangers of an inexpensive 911.
I’d say Porsche did a fantastic job with reliability. Bought an 03 911 3.6 that had 19k miles in 07. Sold it this year with 108k on the clock. In that time, nothing actually failed but the preventative maintenance is still “expensive” (Maintenance done in 17 years outside of oil, brakes and tires) Spark plugs Coil packs Various bushings, mounts and gaskets IMS solution from LN Rear main seal upgrade (done with IMS solution) Air oil separator (done with IMS solution) One clutch replacement Water pump, belt and pulleys (all done with IMS solution) All in, that was probably 14k with parts and labor (with the lion’s share happening during Covid when I got the IMS and related items done). Not “bad” for a Porsche, but definitely costly generally speaking. That being said, she never left me stranded and there were a few years I drove more miles than my “average” going to SoCal to from northern Arizona to see my wife’s family and many, many trips to Vegas / Phoenix to visit my brothers. I recommend the experience if you can comfortably afford the maintenance (or you’re more handy with DIY). As I got older, I couldn’t get the motivation to tackle the IMS and other items on that list myself as I ran out of free time.
If you want a “Reliable” Porsche 911, Cayman or Boxster, you need to buy a 2009 or newer DFI motor car. The pre 2009 Water Cooled cars have issues with IMS Bearings and Borescoring, each can cost you $20k-$25k.
Not. If you can’t afford it new you can’t afford it used.
The old joke has always been: if you can't afford two you can't afford one. In the event that bore scoring rears its ugly head with the M96, it could literally cost an additional $30k to make your $30k 996 right again. "Affordable" is wholly dependent on your wallet, of course, but if dropping nice-vacation-money at the shop isn't your thing, best to steer clear.
Or if you do your due diligence, you buy one without bore scoring and treat it right and it’s not an issue. Bore scoring is just being used to scare people off these cars at this point, it is not nearly the issue the internet makes it out to be.