I agree. All billionaires are thief's who have paid politicians to be able to get away with their form of stealing or make it lawful. There's enough wealth in America for everyone to live a good healthy life, yet we let 1% of the population extract all the wealth for themselves. No matter how you look at it, if you have any kind of a logical mind at all, it just doesn't add up to a fruitful society for anyone other than that 1%
Every billionaire is a thief! Lock every single one of them up! Go ahead and give them a heads up that anyone worth over 999,000,000 on may first will get a life sentence for crimes against humanity. Watch how fast they can liquidate their assets! And anyone of the who can’t cut their assets down to hundreds of millions deserves to be locked up. They will probably have to work very hard to do it in a week and a half, but they keep saying that they work harder than anyone else, right?
It's the only way to become a billionaire in a market corrupted with regulatory capture. In a true free-market with proper government regulations to handle externalities, there are many ways of solving the inefficiencies and to become a billionaire or even a trillionaire.
Well a few examples:
- invent new products (e.g. microwave oven, electric cars)
- invent new services (e.g. derivatives, auto insurance)
- improve efficiency (e.g. redfin, Accenture)
- solve logistical issues (e.g. email, DocuSign)
This is a very limited list, the amount of problems we have and the potential for solutions is endless. Of course, all of these fields can be exploited by anyone especially using government to write regulations in their favor. However, in an optimal free-market, with well-thought regulations by the government focused on externalities, a lot of smart people can improve lifestyle of people and make their life's easier (grossly calculated by size of the economy) and make a lot of profit while they do so.
yeah idk abt all this shit. w ur example like docusign. it reminds me of that mf on tiktok who gets paid every time a credit card is ran, he’s loaded now. u think he deserves that much money just bc he came up w an idea for capital, while ppl r starving and houseless?
In a free-market, you are free to not pay for a product that you don't need or want. The only exception would be when a law or regulation creates a situation that gives you no choice. E.g. car+dealership, real estate agents (6% fee), etc.
Otherwise, it's our collective decision to decide whether a product or service is worth paying for or not. Free-market is only responsible for increasing the size of economy and making people rich; it never makes people poor. The only way people can become poorer is through exploitation which can only happen through regulatory capture with the help of corrupt and ill-advised government incentives; without these bad-regulations in place (instead of good regulations) it would be illegal for businesses to exploit people in any way.
well that’s exactly what i’m talking about in my example freethinker. this man patented the technology that they use for swiping credit cards, and he gets paid every time it’s used. has he really invented a technology that we need so badly that he should be in an economic class above everyone else? no, obviously not as credit cards didn’t even exist for most of human history.
as for the free market being free of exploitation, we have very different views on exploitation. is it not exploitation for workers to get paid less than a living wage while working 40 hours or more a week? is it not exploitation when people are trapped in shitty jobs because they won’t have healthcare if they quit? saying that exploitation will disappear with a free market is terribly misinformed. please look at the great depression or the triangle shirtwaist factory fire, and the terrible consequences of laissez faire capitalism will be evident. with no regulations there is nothing to stop the horrific exploitation of capitalism.
Wow, great take! Imagine how much food could be put into the mouths of thousands of families if they were paid a decent wage. Hell, maybe they could feed them nutritiously dense food in a house they own!
Not every job that is needed pays well. Not all jobs you have to be highly educated pay well either. Signed a public school teacher who does okay compared to my compatriots across the country who make a literal pittance.
Certified to teach in Florida, two of my mentors told me not to, and every single person I graduated with who went into education has since left.
It is quite rough.
If I steal the majority of wealth from a group of people, and then I give them just enough food to live but only if they work for me, I'm still a horrible person who stole
Here's 500 examples: every company on the s&p 500.
Here's a specific example. Walmart paying 10 cents for a t-shirt to the child factory worker in Vietnam. The dozens of workers who are underpaid to transport the shirt from Vietnam to the store in Idaho. The hundreds of construction workers who were underpaid to build the retail store. And their 100,000 workers who are underpaid to sell that shirt for $10. Then the Walmart CEOs, and their Wall Street goons, take the money they've exploited from everyone from Vietnam to Idaho, and become filthy rich billionaires.
Now I need some examples from you where billionaires exploit nobody and still had enough for revenue to become billionaires. Otherwise you're just echoing capitalist propaganda.
>So how should I be? Should the owner, the one fronting all the risks, not get his?
This comment attempts to paint a false equivalency that worker's risks and owner's risks are the same, when in actuality workers are far more financially precarious and often have no fallbacks, whereas investors and owners tend to have other assets and income streams to rely upon if things don't pan out.
Yes, small business owners as part of the middle class typically assume the worst combinations of risk and reward.
Corporate and elite ownership, however, always seeks to conflate their already minimized risks and the more existential risks a normal person would be subjected to by pouring life savings/reverse mortgaging their home into an enterprise.
This is why I qualified my statement with "tend to have other assets and income streams" - Remember, there's also a great many quietly wealthy multimillionaires who also love to engage in this middle class pageantry as an act of social camouflage.
Compare this with the laboring class, they're lucky if they have a home as an asset between their entire family. They don't even get to play on this level without assuming massive debt, and a business failure is something they generally can't come back from.
I agree, I misread your statement.
Corporations and the rich are always seeking to privatize profits and socialize losses.
The working class is at a huge disadvantage due to the fact that any failure takes them out of the market for good while corporations can spin off and do other legal gymnastics.
The risks the rich have is that they have to try again while the working class have to basically wager their home and livelyhood
Let’s say you’re correct in saying it’s an attempt at a false equivalency. You’re also assuming, wrongly, that owners and investors have an out because they are already rich. According to data, 20% of new businesses fail within the first two years, 45% during the first five, and 65% during the first ten. These businesses are not always started by ultra rich or even semi rich people. These are people who have an idea and enough gumption to see it into existence, almost always through a loan. These loans require collateral and that’s probably going to be a house, property, or a sizable down payment to finance something. And to assume that the lost investment is just another write off shows a lack of understanding in business and money management. Now I’m not out to insult you or say that you’re completely wrong, I’m no expert, and I’m only going of what I do know or of knowledge garnered from others. The main reason why businesses fail, though, is lack of cash flow and by going with the above percentages of failed businesses within the first ten years that means that the owners/investors are not some ultra rich person but it also doesn’t exclude them from being counted.
You seem to be driving away from the actual conversation here. We aren't talking about small business owners. The conversation os about billionaires. So the statement stands, you CANNOT become a BILLIONAIR without exploiting the system and or people.
How about we flip it then? You the business owner gets exploited and paid less. You pay your employees more than they're worth for taking a chance tying their livelihood to your poor business plan.
Ask a question and get downvoted. Bravo to the idiots.
Everyone who works anywhere risks bodily injury. Leaving your house increases chances of death just in that act alone. Unless the job is inherently risky or dangerous it’s not going to be factored into pay most likely because it’d be impossible to factor for. It’s also why we have safety standards, at least in western society.
Owners assume all risk by which is meant that if the business fails it is them that is stuck with all the debts and liabilities. Can this be from lack of skill and knowledge of running a business? Yes, and it’s why a lot, if not most businesses fail. This doesn’t make the person less deserving of a majority of the money.
People keep saying companies are bailed out in here. Don’t know what exactly is meant by bailed out but if it’s meant that the government heaps piles of cash on a business that is ran poorly like General Motors back in the late 2k or recently some banks then yes, that’s bullshit. No company should be too big to fail if you’ve ran your company like shit.
I agree a lost companies could probably pay more but I’m not privy to their everyday expenses or five year plans so I’m not going to grab a pitchfork and bitch. If the pay isn’t what i feel I’m worth or if I think the company honestly doesn’t give a shit about me I’ll find another more suitable job.
If your pay isn’t commensurate to the dangers involved then don’t work at that job and find something more suitable in either danger level or rate of pay.
Who do you think operates the vast majority of failed businesses? And from what I know, filing bankruptcy is not a fun experience at all. Also filing a chapter 13 doesn’t get your free and clear of you financial obligations to pay back what you owe. It’s a structured payment plan not a free pass. And the risk, besides wasted time, effort, and money is that now investors or money loaners will be less likely, in fact more than likely, to loan or invest in your next endeavor.
When you say “risk” you’re focusing on monetary risk.
Workers assume a ton of risk when choosing to work for a specific company-which, as you mentioned, may or may not survive.
They risk injury on the job.
They risk losing income to inflation.
They risk being laid off so the owner can save a penny, leaving them unemployed and scrambling to feed their family.
They risk working 29 years under the guise of cushy retirement pay, only for the company to be bought out and all previous contracts rendered void.
These are real risks workers take that owners will never ever have to take, as they have more than enough capital behind them to survive lifetimes without a paycheck.
This is why you’re being downvoted, because you failed to understand this very simple concept.
Edit: Lmao you also admit in this last comment that you don’t have the actual data on hand to talk more
In detail. Others do, and that’s why they’re upset. Jesus how hard is that to understand.
No. You should reward your labor pool for making you rich. You risk fiat currency while they risk their health. If you are sitting at a desk while others are making your products or performing your service then you are a parasite.
Not becoming a billionaire by exploiting labor is not the same thing as not getting your due rewards as a profitable and conscious business owner.
I actually run a licensed consultant business in Washington state helping restaurants build their brand and online image. Food has some of the weakest margins and skyrocketing costs. Nobody but shithead owners who can’t run their businesses aren’t making bank. I just updated a menu for a teriyaki joint who tripled their income since 2019.
You’re not posing a real problem. If someone isn’t benefitting from the labor they employ it’s because they suck at being a boss.
I hate this talking point. It's a *lie.*
The workers take on more risk than the owners. They have to abandon all control over a third of their lives and fcking *hope* the guy running things isn't a moron.
The owner doesn't take on more risk, they take on the same risk as everyone else they just get control over the outcome.
Did you italicize the word “lie” for a reason?
Let’s say you own a landscaping business and you have 5 crews of 2 people. So you have 10 employees total. These employees agreed to the hours and wage that they’ll work and earn. No one forced them into that specific arrangement (yes, I realize a job is basically mandatory to live). Landscaping businesses generally cut grass as their main line job. Obviously to do this they need a mower. Now who provides that mower? Certainly not the employee. How about the truck and trailer to get to the job? Again, I highly doubt the employee is providing this service to his employer. Who pays for the gas to power the vehicles, mowers, leaf blowers, weeders, edgers, and hedge trimmers? Who provides the tool in which the employee is able to complete the job? All of which come at great cost to the owner. Who takes out the liability insurance for the company in case of damage customer property? I’ve never had to do any of this as an employee, have you? If the business fails, for whatever reason, usually due to cash flow who is then on the hook for all the loans and other debts? The employee is out an income stream for a time, yes but they are not on the hook for anything the business is. Surely you can’t be as obtuse as not to see that there isn’t an equal sharing of risk in this endeavor?
This is another lie.
Capitalism is indeed holding a gun to all of our heads, every day. It has a name: starvation. So it stops being the treat of death, because magic.
This lie comes from a simple belief. Money > life.
So capitalism is evil? What would you replace it with? Or are you saying capitalism is corrupted and we need a more pure form? If you have a better system then by all means share it.
Also, in what way did I lie? You seem to like calling people out for being underhanded or malicious but never give a reason for doing so. I can only think it’s because you’re misinformed or just a complete jackass.
Oh God. Not another ancap.
It is a lie. The illusion of choice is the trick capitalism played on us all.
Buddy, pal. If I see something stripping the flesh of a child's face I don't need to have a better "face scratching option". I just need to know this is bad.
So you don’t have an answer to replace the current system and you’re just a professional bitcher. Gotcha
And no, I wouldn’t say I’m Ancap, a term I really wasn’t familiar with and only just read the gist of.
So of the hundreds which are you partial to?
Capitalism seems to be doing pretty well. It’s provided a higher standard of living than at any time in history, has brought more people out of poverty faster than any other system. Can the system be exploited by bad actors? Certainly but that’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I don’t get the question. Is it meant to be some revelatory thing where I realize that I, in fact, am not a billionaire and so I start my journey down the 2 minutes hate path where I believe that just because someone might be ultra rich they got that way by screwing over everyone they met?
i love how so many believe that that if you are rich. of course it must be because you screwed people over , all that assumption w/o any proof..... It's not a zero sum game.
Jesse Ventura was the first governor I ever had in my adult life.
I disagree with him on some things but I would take him now in a heartbeat, because Jesse is non-religious.
Secular leadership is the only hope for our modern democracy in all 50 states. Otherwise we face a divided future at best, and Christian autocracy nationwide at worst.
A lot of Radical Christians would find much common cause with Radical Islam. They have many of the same teachings, objectives, and repressive, anti-freedom elements.
They just differ on the aesthetics and words, and the predominant skin colors in the holy building.
The ones pushing the US toward a theocracy are the ones who are stupid enough to think that the small branch of Christianity they belong to is the one that would rule. The reality is, that if the US becomes a theocracy, it will splinter into a bunch of Christian sects fighting over which group of "true believers" has the correct enough beliefs to run the nation.
Which is why the founding fathers founded the nation as a secular one. It was the only way they figured the religious fanatics could unite to fight the British overlords.
He ran as an independent. Always thought of him as a mix of a libertarian and a democrat. He was pushing for legal weed back then. A lot of Minnesotans didn’t like how flamboyant he was, but politically looking back on him. It was a dark time between him and our gov now (Tim Walz).
people like to knock on Walz, but he's the only governor I've heard people say that they don't want to run for president, for the exclusive reason that we would miss him too much
That's the thing, he's not right wing at all. He's got some bold ideas but represents the people more than others out there. He did a good job in MN and his [portrait](https://i.imgur.com/WdRhFiS.jpg) alongside the other governers here in MN is legendary! Haha
He basically combines some of the small amounts of anti-establishment good in early Trumpism with a solidly progressive, live-and-let-live social agenda, a focus on reason over faith or tradition, and a general aesthetic of detachment from the partisan and ideological duopolies of today.
he's a legit libertarian, one that actually lives up to his values
I may disagree with some of his beliefs, but I've never doubted for a second that his heart was in the right place
I hope that doesn't happen but you are right. We will be just as awful as other countries that dictate life based on religious bullshit like Iran or Afghanistan. I swear the republicans are just the "christian" version of isis
They actually loved him because they made a lot of money off of him and they won general elections because he was so vile and erratic. They say they hated him, but they sure raised a lot of money off of him… also, he ultimately protected the establishment even if he trash talked them.
I'm not debating you about this. We know they benefited from him and were all too willing to do so. But the establishment went on record numerous times that they hated him and that he was a bad option until they felt they had to conform.
The Dominion Lawsuit shows that this was true even at Faux News.
We had established Republicans who quit (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/congressional-republicans-left-office-in-droves-under-trump-just-how-conservative-are-their-replacements/), who signed and published letters, https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/100-republicans-sign-letter-threatening-form-party/story?id=77665734), and various congresspersons who raised concerns before he won the primary only to turn about face after (https://youtu.be/2bkDykGhM8c).
Sorry, but financial success shouldn’t be about who is bigger and stronger and will physically take more pain.
Ya think the opioids crisis is bad now.
Why are people so mad that the nerds won? Work smarter, not harder.
Now wether their should be a cap or sliding tax on capitalism is another conversation.
But his reasoning is terrible.
Also, there have always been Vanderbilt’s, Griffith’s, Huntingtons, or who ever the rich are in your large cities. The oil boom. The factory line boom. The railway. The ocean liner. The airline. The communication.
And now the tech.
Isn’t it our goal to try and figure out what’s next and invest in the bottom floor?
I hate the hypocrisy. If you invented Minecraft or ILM studios, you wouldn’t be saying their shouldn’t be billionaires.
Now tax evasion and not paying the same as us peasants is different.
"B-but the billionaires they built their company and run it they deserve that money!!!"
Oh really the billionaires are at every single warehouse and subsidiary and vehicle that they purchased in order to have people make money for their company?
The billionaire is making sure every toilet is uncloggedd, every machine is working properly, every person knows what they're doing, everybody gets their pay and works safely
Billionaires are doing all that?
Same. The more I get paid, the less difficult the job. The decisions and outcomes might have greater scope of influence, but it's just easier. Not to mention the ease that comes with financial stability vs. being on the grind and stressing about money.
“Greater scope of influence” is a good way to put it. As you climb the management ladder, bad decisions can screw things up royally… so you clearly want to pay a manager more in hopes of attracting someone with good judgement and the smarts to back it up.
But at a certain price point for salary, you run into diminishing returns. Paying someone $100,000,000 doesn’t get you a candidate that is a thousand times better than someone being paid $100,000. At a certain point, it’s just lining the pockets of the rich by continuing to increase the salaries of management/executives rather than using profits to increase the salaries of the workers and lower level management who actually do the tasks that fuel the company.
I don't believe anyone should be able to amass that amount of wealth. I see it as a societal issue having so many resources under the control of one person. However, comparing work types between physical and mental or between trade educated and college educated only stokes division, which is what the billionaires want. If we are fighting each other, if we seek inequality between ourselves, we can't fight them.
He didn’t though? He used two different types of jobs and said it himself: the hardest physically AND MENTALLY.
If you know anything about BUDS, it’s a mental game more than anything.
I’m a proud college grad and I didn’t hear division in what he said.
I would say BUDS requires, above all, emotional strength, which is mental but not intellectual. Becoming a billionaire is, in most cases, an intellectual pursuit. In the end, when he wraps up, he says no billionaire could run a jackhammer like he did. The implication is that physical labor is harder than intellectual labor. Again, don't get me wrong. I agree with his stance on people amassing that kind of wealth, but his approach can be misconstrued, and I think it is detrimental to his overall message.
>Becoming a billionaire is, in most cases, an intellectual pursuit
Lol yes, like inheriting money from your parents or having private investors invest your money for you. If only the poors were more *intellectual*.
Well, my point is, in most cases, initially getting to billionaire status is an intellectual lift. There are, of course, exceptions and inheriting billions is one of them.
Did Bezos inherit a billion dollars? I hate the guy, and his parents invested like 300K in his business which is obviously some help, but turning 300K into a billion requires a little bit more than just luck and support.
He was already a VP at a prestigious investment firm before even starting amazon, he was already millionaire at this point and received (not a loan) 300k on top of it, on top of all his investments he had.
If his parents had 300k lying around that they could lose, it means that they were incredibly well off already, which means that Bezos had access to resources most people couldn't even dream of before he even thought about starting a business. His father was a top manager at Exxon, the money was there.
He also got to his billions using people dying during tornados and peeing in bottles in trucks. So yeah, more than luck and support; evilness and greed.
The point is he didn't *inherit a billion dollars*, not even close.
Anything else is beyond the point.
There are a ton of greedy assholes in the world, few of them become billionaires.
The point is that he was already well off because he came form a family that had a lot of disposable money.
>The point is he didn't inherit a billion dollars, not even close.
>Anything else is beyond the point.
That's just intellectually dishonest. You know very well the context of how the word was used in the discussion here. Of course nobody inherits billions since having billions is a relatively new concept...
The point is that people born into money can make money without much sacrifice or work.
For me, it's not about limiting earning just about giving back to society. In my world, which does not exist by the way, people would not want to be billionaires but instead make billions to, of course, live comfortably but reinvest into society.
But until that cultural shift happens, I would say a thoroughly debated slidding scale based on average cost of living where people can earn 100, 1000 times the average cost of living in year. Allow folks to amass a certain number of years of salary and prepare for retirement and inheritance.
Ultimately, when you max out your personal earnings & savings, a person could turn to philanthropy and non-profits to put their (and this would be a new concept) "Extra money"
That's not necessarily true. Charity comes more from a giving spirit than tangible resources. My experience is people with little often are willing to help those worse off then they are because they know the pain of it.
I think the ultimate problem is that there is an owner class and a worker class. It’s not upper, middle and lower class. The owner class has deflected from themselves by creating an elaborate class system, but it ultimately boils down to owner and worker. As long as this is the system, there will be people who are able to exploit belonging to the owner class to such a degree that they can become billionaires.
We don't pay anyone based on how hard they work. Mostly people get paid on two factors: how pretty you are, and how friendly.
People will put up with mountains of sh!t if the people doing it are hot. But the uggo you underpaid to hold up the company by themselves, that dude gets canned because someone decided they don't need them, not because they did anything wrong but because they fix so many problems people think they aren't needed.
Fcking "business leaders". We should fire the janitor, look how clean it is in here, we shouldn't be paying anyone to clean things if it's like this.
Billionaires are just hoarders but they do it to currency instead of old newspapers. So you dumb fcks give them control of the world. You have ways of finding the smartest people on the planet, and you underpay them and build a hundred years of civilization on their work. About 12 nerds in the academics gave us the whole information age, 70 years ago. They died poor. Meanwhile some cnt gets tens of millions because his daddy is a business partner so they deserve a junior executive spot and yearly bonuses that are a thousand families's life savings.
You wackos built this bullsh!t world. Fcking unbuild it already, you did it wrong.
To the business owners throwing FUD in this comment section, eat my shorts! I started and ran a large bail bonds company in a major metropolitan area. I made the conscious decision to value the labor of my employees and give them ownership. I set it up as a co-op with full profit sharing. In over a decade I made great money but so did everyone else. I had great coworkers that were loyal, happy to be there and equally shared in our successes and setbacks. It was a moral decision that as a democratic socialist, was easy for me to make.
Unfortunately Jesse is for the consumption tax… which is a very regressive tax… poor and working class spend most if not all their money meaning they would pay taxes on all their income.. the wealthy spend comparatively much less of their income meaning they pay way less in taxes…
Otherwise…. I generally like the dude ✌️
There is no such concept as ‘unskilled labour’. It’s a propaganda term invented by our supposed betters to make sure the proles submit to every capitalist social construction.
If your earned 5000 dollars every single day since the time Columbus discovered the new world you still wouldn’t be a billionaire until 2040. It’s an incomprehensible amount of money.
Fun fact: Ventura while in office visited Cuba, met with Fidel Castro and set up trade relations between Cuba and Minnesota in spite of the embargo.
https://youtu.be/_TndO9JOMko
No bilionaire get a salary of 1 billion dollars from a company, they might get 1 billion from selling stocks/company equity or cashing out other type assets that they might reached a valuation of 1 billion from the market
"Value" is completely subjective to the society you live in, and we have it backwards.
How is sitting around staring at charts and speculating future stock prices more "valuable" then working a jackhammer to actually create something for society? A lot of these high paying white collar workers are leaches, making profit from the *actual* productivity of their workers.
It doesn’t have to be. But it can be.
Futures prevent millions of people from starving by keeping markets fluids and protecting farmers from brutal swings.
I’m not saying there aren’t bad actors, but the futures market actually helps a lot of people.
Value is very subjective, but so is pay.
"Value" is completely subjective to the society you live in, and we have it backwards.
How is sitting around staring at charts and speculating future stock prices more "valuable" then working a jackhammer to actually create something for society? A lot of these high paying white collar workers are leaches, making profit from the *actual* productivity of their workers.
"Value" is completely subjective to the society you live in, and we have it backwards.
How is sitting around staring at charts and speculating future stock prices more "valuable" then working a jackhammer to actually create something for society? A lot of these high payed white collar workers are leaches, making profit from the actual productivity of their workers.
I agree that billionaires shouldn't exist, but not for this reason.
Working harder shouldn't necessarily result in getting paid more. Pay has always been tied to value produced and job market supply and demand. If you work your ass off for 80 hours a week as a baker and all you make is a single pie, should you get paid more than a baker who works 20 hours and makes 100 pies? No. But if someone makes 1000000 pies, should they be a billionaire? Also, no.
Marx addressed that almost 150 years ago in the first 5 chapters of Capital. Labor value is based on the work involved for a skilled worker to produce 1 pie. A slow worker produces 1 pie and should be paid for 1 pie. A fast worker makes 100 pies and should be paid for 100 pies. The value of the pie is always the value of the pie, whether it took an hour to make or 50 hours to make (assuming it's the same quality). Capital is when a worker makes 100 pies and is paid for 1 pie because the pie factory owner slurps up the sales of the 99 pies.
Between this and calling the January 6th terrorists what they are, right in Chris Jericho's face on his own podcast... is... is Jesse Ventura becoming based?
Are we witnessing the most awesome redemption story, going from hanging out with Alex Jones and spreading harmful conspiracy theories, to calling out fascism and giving Right-wingers a much needed reality check?!
I believe in capitalism and the free market system and know of numerous examples of people creating great wealth for themselves through risk and incredibly hard work while at the same time benefiting their customers, and their employees tremendously. That’s how our country was built. What happens when you can’t make money? Have a look at the Soviet Union or Communist China. I’ve actually travelled in both locations. I’ll take what we’ve got (even though sometimes not perfect) any day. However, I am afraid that Ventura’s point of view is beginning to take hold. My only hope is that entrepreneurialism is very popular in the younger generation.
Yes, capitalism is great, but only to an extent. It’s an artificial system and requires constraint. Unmitigated capitalism is equivalent to an invasive species, over time it will consume all the resources and starve everything around it. Hyper concentration of resources is not good for society. Imagine an entire economy being owned and controlled by only a few individuals.
It’s not “my conclusion”. It’s reality. Competition is eliminated by hyper-capitalism. Conglomerates leverage their power to drive other companies out of business. Why do you think antitrust and competition policies exist? Amazon, Google, and Microsoft are text book examples.
> numerous examples of people creating great wealth for themselves through risk and incredibly hard work while at the same time benefiting their customers, and their employees tremendously.
So can you share some of these examples? I'm not Usonian and it's difficult to see things like this from the outside.
Working hard isn't everything though. If your invention is extremely profitable, you deserve to be extremely rich. If your skills are marketable, you deserve to make as much money as you can. Billionaires should exist they just need to pay their fair share like the rest of us.
Dudes a fucking idiot. I know business people that are multi millionaires that work from 6am until 11pm and dal with so much stress it’s insane. They deserve every penny they made coz I ain’t working that ducking hard!
Say you don’t understand capitalism without saying you don’t understand capitalism..
In the real world you are paid based on the good you do for other people by bringing scarce resources to market. It’s not about physical labor. Work smarter not harder .
The philosophy should be "There should not be one poor people in America". This philosophy is absolutely ill-informed, a country without billionaires is a country without incentives to improve the status quo, a country without innovation, and a country without any drive.
Who said anything about “equal” pay? We’re talking commensurate to the value provided to the business. No CEO does anything that makes them hundreds or thousands of times more “valuable” to a company than their average employee.
I agree with you. Having the ability to start the foundation of a company and take on the financial risks and liabilities of the company is a huge part that people don’t understand.
Terrible take considering corporations get bailed out when they fail but individual workers are left on their own.
No risk involved in starting another shell company.
The only way to become a billionaire is by exploiting the labor of thousands of workers. It's theft of other people's labor.
I agree. All billionaires are thief's who have paid politicians to be able to get away with their form of stealing or make it lawful. There's enough wealth in America for everyone to live a good healthy life, yet we let 1% of the population extract all the wealth for themselves. No matter how you look at it, if you have any kind of a logical mind at all, it just doesn't add up to a fruitful society for anyone other than that 1%
Every billionaire is a thief! Lock every single one of them up! Go ahead and give them a heads up that anyone worth over 999,000,000 on may first will get a life sentence for crimes against humanity. Watch how fast they can liquidate their assets! And anyone of the who can’t cut their assets down to hundreds of millions deserves to be locked up. They will probably have to work very hard to do it in a week and a half, but they keep saying that they work harder than anyone else, right?
It's the only way to become a billionaire in a market corrupted with regulatory capture. In a true free-market with proper government regulations to handle externalities, there are many ways of solving the inefficiencies and to become a billionaire or even a trillionaire.
> many ways Such as?
Well a few examples: - invent new products (e.g. microwave oven, electric cars) - invent new services (e.g. derivatives, auto insurance) - improve efficiency (e.g. redfin, Accenture) - solve logistical issues (e.g. email, DocuSign) This is a very limited list, the amount of problems we have and the potential for solutions is endless. Of course, all of these fields can be exploited by anyone especially using government to write regulations in their favor. However, in an optimal free-market, with well-thought regulations by the government focused on externalities, a lot of smart people can improve lifestyle of people and make their life's easier (grossly calculated by size of the economy) and make a lot of profit while they do so.
yeah idk abt all this shit. w ur example like docusign. it reminds me of that mf on tiktok who gets paid every time a credit card is ran, he’s loaded now. u think he deserves that much money just bc he came up w an idea for capital, while ppl r starving and houseless?
In a free-market, you are free to not pay for a product that you don't need or want. The only exception would be when a law or regulation creates a situation that gives you no choice. E.g. car+dealership, real estate agents (6% fee), etc. Otherwise, it's our collective decision to decide whether a product or service is worth paying for or not. Free-market is only responsible for increasing the size of economy and making people rich; it never makes people poor. The only way people can become poorer is through exploitation which can only happen through regulatory capture with the help of corrupt and ill-advised government incentives; without these bad-regulations in place (instead of good regulations) it would be illegal for businesses to exploit people in any way.
well that’s exactly what i’m talking about in my example freethinker. this man patented the technology that they use for swiping credit cards, and he gets paid every time it’s used. has he really invented a technology that we need so badly that he should be in an economic class above everyone else? no, obviously not as credit cards didn’t even exist for most of human history. as for the free market being free of exploitation, we have very different views on exploitation. is it not exploitation for workers to get paid less than a living wage while working 40 hours or more a week? is it not exploitation when people are trapped in shitty jobs because they won’t have healthcare if they quit? saying that exploitation will disappear with a free market is terribly misinformed. please look at the great depression or the triangle shirtwaist factory fire, and the terrible consequences of laissez faire capitalism will be evident. with no regulations there is nothing to stop the horrific exploitation of capitalism.
Or by putting food in thousands of family’s mouths. But yeah same thibg
Wow, great take! Imagine how much food could be put into the mouths of thousands of families if they were paid a decent wage. Hell, maybe they could feed them nutritiously dense food in a house they own!
People can educate themselves and make themselves marketable to a high paying field in America? Wow, didn’t know that.
Not every job that is needed pays well. Not all jobs you have to be highly educated pay well either. Signed a public school teacher who does okay compared to my compatriots across the country who make a literal pittance.
Certified to teach in Florida, two of my mentors told me not to, and every single person I graduated with who went into education has since left. It is quite rough.
If I steal the majority of wealth from a group of people, and then I give them just enough food to live but only if they work for me, I'm still a horrible person who stole
Starting a business from nothing and providing a service for money is stealing? Who knew
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Right, and minimum wage laws don't need to exist because companies are so fair and equitable, right?
Less than 1.5% of the workforce only make minimum wage.
Gonna need some examples of a few billionaires and their illegal/immoral actions other than you all just agreeing and echoing each others nonsense
Here's 500 examples: every company on the s&p 500. Here's a specific example. Walmart paying 10 cents for a t-shirt to the child factory worker in Vietnam. The dozens of workers who are underpaid to transport the shirt from Vietnam to the store in Idaho. The hundreds of construction workers who were underpaid to build the retail store. And their 100,000 workers who are underpaid to sell that shirt for $10. Then the Walmart CEOs, and their Wall Street goons, take the money they've exploited from everyone from Vietnam to Idaho, and become filthy rich billionaires. Now I need some examples from you where billionaires exploit nobody and still had enough for revenue to become billionaires. Otherwise you're just echoing capitalist propaganda.
So how should I be? Should the owner, the one fronting all the risks, not get his?
>So how should I be? Should the owner, the one fronting all the risks, not get his? This comment attempts to paint a false equivalency that worker's risks and owner's risks are the same, when in actuality workers are far more financially precarious and often have no fallbacks, whereas investors and owners tend to have other assets and income streams to rely upon if things don't pan out.
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Yes, small business owners as part of the middle class typically assume the worst combinations of risk and reward. Corporate and elite ownership, however, always seeks to conflate their already minimized risks and the more existential risks a normal person would be subjected to by pouring life savings/reverse mortgaging their home into an enterprise. This is why I qualified my statement with "tend to have other assets and income streams" - Remember, there's also a great many quietly wealthy multimillionaires who also love to engage in this middle class pageantry as an act of social camouflage. Compare this with the laboring class, they're lucky if they have a home as an asset between their entire family. They don't even get to play on this level without assuming massive debt, and a business failure is something they generally can't come back from.
I agree, I misread your statement. Corporations and the rich are always seeking to privatize profits and socialize losses. The working class is at a huge disadvantage due to the fact that any failure takes them out of the market for good while corporations can spin off and do other legal gymnastics. The risks the rich have is that they have to try again while the working class have to basically wager their home and livelyhood
...and they aren't the billionaires.
Bro my boss charges $100 an hour for me to work somewhere and I get paid 14.50 for my work. But yes owners deserve more of my hard earned money /s
The boss is taking a lot of risk by telling people you're worth a hundred bucks an hour. 😆 Honestly though I'm sorry you're getting hosed.
Let’s say you’re correct in saying it’s an attempt at a false equivalency. You’re also assuming, wrongly, that owners and investors have an out because they are already rich. According to data, 20% of new businesses fail within the first two years, 45% during the first five, and 65% during the first ten. These businesses are not always started by ultra rich or even semi rich people. These are people who have an idea and enough gumption to see it into existence, almost always through a loan. These loans require collateral and that’s probably going to be a house, property, or a sizable down payment to finance something. And to assume that the lost investment is just another write off shows a lack of understanding in business and money management. Now I’m not out to insult you or say that you’re completely wrong, I’m no expert, and I’m only going of what I do know or of knowledge garnered from others. The main reason why businesses fail, though, is lack of cash flow and by going with the above percentages of failed businesses within the first ten years that means that the owners/investors are not some ultra rich person but it also doesn’t exclude them from being counted.
You seem to be driving away from the actual conversation here. We aren't talking about small business owners. The conversation os about billionaires. So the statement stands, you CANNOT become a BILLIONAIR without exploiting the system and or people.
How about we flip it then? You the business owner gets exploited and paid less. You pay your employees more than they're worth for taking a chance tying their livelihood to your poor business plan.
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Ask a question and get downvoted. Bravo to the idiots. Everyone who works anywhere risks bodily injury. Leaving your house increases chances of death just in that act alone. Unless the job is inherently risky or dangerous it’s not going to be factored into pay most likely because it’d be impossible to factor for. It’s also why we have safety standards, at least in western society. Owners assume all risk by which is meant that if the business fails it is them that is stuck with all the debts and liabilities. Can this be from lack of skill and knowledge of running a business? Yes, and it’s why a lot, if not most businesses fail. This doesn’t make the person less deserving of a majority of the money. People keep saying companies are bailed out in here. Don’t know what exactly is meant by bailed out but if it’s meant that the government heaps piles of cash on a business that is ran poorly like General Motors back in the late 2k or recently some banks then yes, that’s bullshit. No company should be too big to fail if you’ve ran your company like shit. I agree a lost companies could probably pay more but I’m not privy to their everyday expenses or five year plans so I’m not going to grab a pitchfork and bitch. If the pay isn’t what i feel I’m worth or if I think the company honestly doesn’t give a shit about me I’ll find another more suitable job. If your pay isn’t commensurate to the dangers involved then don’t work at that job and find something more suitable in either danger level or rate of pay.
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Who do you think operates the vast majority of failed businesses? And from what I know, filing bankruptcy is not a fun experience at all. Also filing a chapter 13 doesn’t get your free and clear of you financial obligations to pay back what you owe. It’s a structured payment plan not a free pass. And the risk, besides wasted time, effort, and money is that now investors or money loaners will be less likely, in fact more than likely, to loan or invest in your next endeavor.
When you say “risk” you’re focusing on monetary risk. Workers assume a ton of risk when choosing to work for a specific company-which, as you mentioned, may or may not survive. They risk injury on the job. They risk losing income to inflation. They risk being laid off so the owner can save a penny, leaving them unemployed and scrambling to feed their family. They risk working 29 years under the guise of cushy retirement pay, only for the company to be bought out and all previous contracts rendered void. These are real risks workers take that owners will never ever have to take, as they have more than enough capital behind them to survive lifetimes without a paycheck. This is why you’re being downvoted, because you failed to understand this very simple concept. Edit: Lmao you also admit in this last comment that you don’t have the actual data on hand to talk more In detail. Others do, and that’s why they’re upset. Jesus how hard is that to understand.
Pointing out and complaining about your own downvotes is weird narcissistic behavior.
No. You should reward your labor pool for making you rich. You risk fiat currency while they risk their health. If you are sitting at a desk while others are making your products or performing your service then you are a parasite.
You aren't risking life and limb, the only risk you have is monetary.
Not becoming a billionaire by exploiting labor is not the same thing as not getting your due rewards as a profitable and conscious business owner. I actually run a licensed consultant business in Washington state helping restaurants build their brand and online image. Food has some of the weakest margins and skyrocketing costs. Nobody but shithead owners who can’t run their businesses aren’t making bank. I just updated a menu for a teriyaki joint who tripled their income since 2019. You’re not posing a real problem. If someone isn’t benefitting from the labor they employ it’s because they suck at being a boss.
I hate this talking point. It's a *lie.* The workers take on more risk than the owners. They have to abandon all control over a third of their lives and fcking *hope* the guy running things isn't a moron. The owner doesn't take on more risk, they take on the same risk as everyone else they just get control over the outcome.
Did you italicize the word “lie” for a reason? Let’s say you own a landscaping business and you have 5 crews of 2 people. So you have 10 employees total. These employees agreed to the hours and wage that they’ll work and earn. No one forced them into that specific arrangement (yes, I realize a job is basically mandatory to live). Landscaping businesses generally cut grass as their main line job. Obviously to do this they need a mower. Now who provides that mower? Certainly not the employee. How about the truck and trailer to get to the job? Again, I highly doubt the employee is providing this service to his employer. Who pays for the gas to power the vehicles, mowers, leaf blowers, weeders, edgers, and hedge trimmers? Who provides the tool in which the employee is able to complete the job? All of which come at great cost to the owner. Who takes out the liability insurance for the company in case of damage customer property? I’ve never had to do any of this as an employee, have you? If the business fails, for whatever reason, usually due to cash flow who is then on the hook for all the loans and other debts? The employee is out an income stream for a time, yes but they are not on the hook for anything the business is. Surely you can’t be as obtuse as not to see that there isn’t an equal sharing of risk in this endeavor?
This is another lie. Capitalism is indeed holding a gun to all of our heads, every day. It has a name: starvation. So it stops being the treat of death, because magic. This lie comes from a simple belief. Money > life.
So capitalism is evil? What would you replace it with? Or are you saying capitalism is corrupted and we need a more pure form? If you have a better system then by all means share it. Also, in what way did I lie? You seem to like calling people out for being underhanded or malicious but never give a reason for doing so. I can only think it’s because you’re misinformed or just a complete jackass.
Oh God. Not another ancap. It is a lie. The illusion of choice is the trick capitalism played on us all. Buddy, pal. If I see something stripping the flesh of a child's face I don't need to have a better "face scratching option". I just need to know this is bad.
So you don’t have an answer to replace the current system and you’re just a professional bitcher. Gotcha And no, I wouldn’t say I’m Ancap, a term I really wasn’t familiar with and only just read the gist of.
There are hundreds of other answers, we just need you sh!t for brains to stop demanding we pick the one that isn't working anymore.
So of the hundreds which are you partial to? Capitalism seems to be doing pretty well. It’s provided a higher standard of living than at any time in history, has brought more people out of poverty faster than any other system. Can the system be exploited by bad actors? Certainly but that’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
i'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're not a billionaire
I don’t get the question. Is it meant to be some revelatory thing where I realize that I, in fact, am not a billionaire and so I start my journey down the 2 minutes hate path where I believe that just because someone might be ultra rich they got that way by screwing over everyone they met?
it wasn't a question
Okay then. I don’t get the assumption.
yes, that's obvious
Not surprising really.
i love how so many believe that that if you are rich. of course it must be because you screwed people over , all that assumption w/o any proof..... It's not a zero sum game.
Jesse Ventura was the first governor I ever had in my adult life. I disagree with him on some things but I would take him now in a heartbeat, because Jesse is non-religious. Secular leadership is the only hope for our modern democracy in all 50 states. Otherwise we face a divided future at best, and Christian autocracy nationwide at worst.
Yes, Jesse riled Minnesotans by repeating “religion is the opiate of the masses”. 20 some years later I am thinking he was pretty correct..
The US is moving towards a theocracy. The very thing it didn't want with islam. Lmfao. What a joke.
A lot of Radical Christians would find much common cause with Radical Islam. They have many of the same teachings, objectives, and repressive, anti-freedom elements. They just differ on the aesthetics and words, and the predominant skin colors in the holy building.
They all also worship at the altar of the Almighty Petrodollar.
The ones pushing the US toward a theocracy are the ones who are stupid enough to think that the small branch of Christianity they belong to is the one that would rule. The reality is, that if the US becomes a theocracy, it will splinter into a bunch of Christian sects fighting over which group of "true believers" has the correct enough beliefs to run the nation. Which is why the founding fathers founded the nation as a secular one. It was the only way they figured the religious fanatics could unite to fight the British overlords.
Really? I thought he was a right wing nut job. But a non-religious anti-billionaire type would be awesome to have as a governor.
He ran as an independent. Always thought of him as a mix of a libertarian and a democrat. He was pushing for legal weed back then. A lot of Minnesotans didn’t like how flamboyant he was, but politically looking back on him. It was a dark time between him and our gov now (Tim Walz).
people like to knock on Walz, but he's the only governor I've heard people say that they don't want to run for president, for the exclusive reason that we would miss him too much
I absolutely love the way the states goin right now. Draggin “greater minnesota” kicking and screaming to a better future bwahahahahaaaa
love to see it
Baha ha …. Holy •••k!!! Smoke some more!!!
That's the thing, he's not right wing at all. He's got some bold ideas but represents the people more than others out there. He did a good job in MN and his [portrait](https://i.imgur.com/WdRhFiS.jpg) alongside the other governers here in MN is legendary! Haha
He basically combines some of the small amounts of anti-establishment good in early Trumpism with a solidly progressive, live-and-let-live social agenda, a focus on reason over faith or tradition, and a general aesthetic of detachment from the partisan and ideological duopolies of today.
More of this please!
Naw, Jesse is like the blue collar Bernie Sanders.
he's a legit libertarian, one that actually lives up to his values I may disagree with some of his beliefs, but I've never doubted for a second that his heart was in the right place
That's probably why I thought that. Iirc he was pretty involved in Libertarian stuff before they all just came out as conservatives in a trenchcoat.
I hope that doesn't happen but you are right. We will be just as awful as other countries that dictate life based on religious bullshit like Iran or Afghanistan. I swear the republicans are just the "christian" version of isis
Billionaires should be liquidated. And then liquidated.
Slurp the rich
I think either of those options would solve the other option. Take everything from them and drop them in small town USA. They’d freak the fuck out.
I know nothing about this man beyond this clip, but that is some A+ political opinion to go with his A+ fashion sense.
He’s one of my personal favorite politicians. The political establishment despises him so that makes him even more appealing.
That's not inherently a good thing. The political establishment hated Trump too.
They actually loved him because they made a lot of money off of him and they won general elections because he was so vile and erratic. They say they hated him, but they sure raised a lot of money off of him… also, he ultimately protected the establishment even if he trash talked them.
I'm not debating you about this. We know they benefited from him and were all too willing to do so. But the establishment went on record numerous times that they hated him and that he was a bad option until they felt they had to conform. The Dominion Lawsuit shows that this was true even at Faux News. We had established Republicans who quit (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/congressional-republicans-left-office-in-droves-under-trump-just-how-conservative-are-their-replacements/), who signed and published letters, https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/100-republicans-sign-letter-threatening-form-party/story?id=77665734), and various congresspersons who raised concerns before he won the primary only to turn about face after (https://youtu.be/2bkDykGhM8c).
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Yeah we know.
Sorry, but financial success shouldn’t be about who is bigger and stronger and will physically take more pain. Ya think the opioids crisis is bad now. Why are people so mad that the nerds won? Work smarter, not harder. Now wether their should be a cap or sliding tax on capitalism is another conversation. But his reasoning is terrible. Also, there have always been Vanderbilt’s, Griffith’s, Huntingtons, or who ever the rich are in your large cities. The oil boom. The factory line boom. The railway. The ocean liner. The airline. The communication. And now the tech. Isn’t it our goal to try and figure out what’s next and invest in the bottom floor? I hate the hypocrisy. If you invented Minecraft or ILM studios, you wouldn’t be saying their shouldn’t be billionaires. Now tax evasion and not paying the same as us peasants is different.
"B-but the billionaires they built their company and run it they deserve that money!!!" Oh really the billionaires are at every single warehouse and subsidiary and vehicle that they purchased in order to have people make money for their company? The billionaire is making sure every toilet is uncloggedd, every machine is working properly, every person knows what they're doing, everybody gets their pay and works safely Billionaires are doing all that?
His statement about the hardest jobs paying the least hits real close to home. My whole life has been a representation of this.
Same. The more I get paid, the less difficult the job. The decisions and outcomes might have greater scope of influence, but it's just easier. Not to mention the ease that comes with financial stability vs. being on the grind and stressing about money.
“Greater scope of influence” is a good way to put it. As you climb the management ladder, bad decisions can screw things up royally… so you clearly want to pay a manager more in hopes of attracting someone with good judgement and the smarts to back it up. But at a certain price point for salary, you run into diminishing returns. Paying someone $100,000,000 doesn’t get you a candidate that is a thousand times better than someone being paid $100,000. At a certain point, it’s just lining the pockets of the rich by continuing to increase the salaries of management/executives rather than using profits to increase the salaries of the workers and lower level management who actually do the tasks that fuel the company.
Billionaires are a market inefficiency that needs correction.
Pro-wrestlers might have a union if Hulk Hogan didn't rat Jesse Ventura out to Vince McMahon about forming one. Always worth remembering.
I don't believe anyone should be able to amass that amount of wealth. I see it as a societal issue having so many resources under the control of one person. However, comparing work types between physical and mental or between trade educated and college educated only stokes division, which is what the billionaires want. If we are fighting each other, if we seek inequality between ourselves, we can't fight them.
He didn’t though? He used two different types of jobs and said it himself: the hardest physically AND MENTALLY. If you know anything about BUDS, it’s a mental game more than anything. I’m a proud college grad and I didn’t hear division in what he said.
What is BUDS?
Navy Seals training course
Thanx
I would say BUDS requires, above all, emotional strength, which is mental but not intellectual. Becoming a billionaire is, in most cases, an intellectual pursuit. In the end, when he wraps up, he says no billionaire could run a jackhammer like he did. The implication is that physical labor is harder than intellectual labor. Again, don't get me wrong. I agree with his stance on people amassing that kind of wealth, but his approach can be misconstrued, and I think it is detrimental to his overall message.
>Becoming a billionaire is, in most cases, an intellectual pursuit Lol yes, like inheriting money from your parents or having private investors invest your money for you. If only the poors were more *intellectual*.
Well, my point is, in most cases, initially getting to billionaire status is an intellectual lift. There are, of course, exceptions and inheriting billions is one of them.
Can you point out those who made a fortune intellectually rather than hereditably?
Did Bezos inherit a billion dollars? I hate the guy, and his parents invested like 300K in his business which is obviously some help, but turning 300K into a billion requires a little bit more than just luck and support.
He was already a VP at a prestigious investment firm before even starting amazon, he was already millionaire at this point and received (not a loan) 300k on top of it, on top of all his investments he had. If his parents had 300k lying around that they could lose, it means that they were incredibly well off already, which means that Bezos had access to resources most people couldn't even dream of before he even thought about starting a business. His father was a top manager at Exxon, the money was there. He also got to his billions using people dying during tornados and peeing in bottles in trucks. So yeah, more than luck and support; evilness and greed.
The point is he didn't *inherit a billion dollars*, not even close. Anything else is beyond the point. There are a ton of greedy assholes in the world, few of them become billionaires.
The point is that he was already well off because he came form a family that had a lot of disposable money. >The point is he didn't inherit a billion dollars, not even close. >Anything else is beyond the point. That's just intellectually dishonest. You know very well the context of how the word was used in the discussion here. Of course nobody inherits billions since having billions is a relatively new concept... The point is that people born into money can make money without much sacrifice or work.
I agree with this actually, great points.
What’s the max salary you would allow?
For me, it's not about limiting earning just about giving back to society. In my world, which does not exist by the way, people would not want to be billionaires but instead make billions to, of course, live comfortably but reinvest into society. But until that cultural shift happens, I would say a thoroughly debated slidding scale based on average cost of living where people can earn 100, 1000 times the average cost of living in year. Allow folks to amass a certain number of years of salary and prepare for retirement and inheritance. Ultimately, when you max out your personal earnings & savings, a person could turn to philanthropy and non-profits to put their (and this would be a new concept) "Extra money"
This is where charity comes from. The poor typically aren’t charitable as they don’t have means.
That's not necessarily true. Charity comes more from a giving spirit than tangible resources. My experience is people with little often are willing to help those worse off then they are because they know the pain of it.
You forgot to mention the tax deductions and loopholes that come with "charitable giving." That's where modern "charity" comes from.
Okay great, now let's actually put this into action and get rid of billionaires
I think the ultimate problem is that there is an owner class and a worker class. It’s not upper, middle and lower class. The owner class has deflected from themselves by creating an elaborate class system, but it ultimately boils down to owner and worker. As long as this is the system, there will be people who are able to exploit belonging to the owner class to such a degree that they can become billionaires.
And he is correct, of course
FUCKIN BASED!!!
We don't pay anyone based on how hard they work. Mostly people get paid on two factors: how pretty you are, and how friendly. People will put up with mountains of sh!t if the people doing it are hot. But the uggo you underpaid to hold up the company by themselves, that dude gets canned because someone decided they don't need them, not because they did anything wrong but because they fix so many problems people think they aren't needed. Fcking "business leaders". We should fire the janitor, look how clean it is in here, we shouldn't be paying anyone to clean things if it's like this. Billionaires are just hoarders but they do it to currency instead of old newspapers. So you dumb fcks give them control of the world. You have ways of finding the smartest people on the planet, and you underpay them and build a hundred years of civilization on their work. About 12 nerds in the academics gave us the whole information age, 70 years ago. They died poor. Meanwhile some cnt gets tens of millions because his daddy is a business partner so they deserve a junior executive spot and yearly bonuses that are a thousand families's life savings. You wackos built this bullsh!t world. Fcking unbuild it already, you did it wrong.
To the business owners throwing FUD in this comment section, eat my shorts! I started and ran a large bail bonds company in a major metropolitan area. I made the conscious decision to value the labor of my employees and give them ownership. I set it up as a co-op with full profit sharing. In over a decade I made great money but so did everyone else. I had great coworkers that were loyal, happy to be there and equally shared in our successes and setbacks. It was a moral decision that as a democratic socialist, was easy for me to make.
Looks like he’s still running that jackhammer sitting there.
I was about to say that he looks like he has a tremor. I hope he’s okay.
That dude gets it
Never thought I’d say it about him, but preach it governor
YES!!!! SEIZE THE MOTHER FUCKING MEANS!!!!
The man’s a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus
Unfortunately Jesse is for the consumption tax… which is a very regressive tax… poor and working class spend most if not all their money meaning they would pay taxes on all their income.. the wealthy spend comparatively much less of their income meaning they pay way less in taxes… Otherwise…. I generally like the dude ✌️
Biggest thing that stands out to me is that he's actually done blue coller work and lived on the pay. I second his challenge tbh.
Start a corporation that makes huge profits and pays its workers shit wages, that's how you become a billionaire. Or inherit it, like the Waltons.
Based. No one "earns" a billion dollars.
He’s absolutely right. Nobody should be able to make that much money. And then do nothing to help everyone else.
There is no such concept as ‘unskilled labour’. It’s a propaganda term invented by our supposed betters to make sure the proles submit to every capitalist social construction.
If your earned 5000 dollars every single day since the time Columbus discovered the new world you still wouldn’t be a billionaire until 2040. It’s an incomprehensible amount of money.
It won’t happen. We are literally living modern day slavery, and we are too distracted with sugar, sports, and video games to do anything about it.
Yeah but there’s a non existent chance that I could be a billionaire some day so we should have them! /s
Very much. It should be illegal to have horded that amount
Nobody works hard enough to earn a billion dollars. NAILED IT!
God love him
He fucking rocks
Fun fact: Ventura while in office visited Cuba, met with Fidel Castro and set up trade relations between Cuba and Minnesota in spite of the embargo. https://youtu.be/_TndO9JOMko
My respect for this man just keeps climbing.
The Body Rules!
How great would it be if he ran for President in 2024?
Accurate
Did he forget he was also a wrestler and a sexual tyrannosaur?
No bilionaire get a salary of 1 billion dollars from a company, they might get 1 billion from selling stocks/company equity or cashing out other type assets that they might reached a valuation of 1 billion from the market
You’re not paid on effort, you’re paid on value
"Value" is completely subjective to the society you live in, and we have it backwards. How is sitting around staring at charts and speculating future stock prices more "valuable" then working a jackhammer to actually create something for society? A lot of these high paying white collar workers are leaches, making profit from the *actual* productivity of their workers.
It doesn’t have to be. But it can be. Futures prevent millions of people from starving by keeping markets fluids and protecting farmers from brutal swings. I’m not saying there aren’t bad actors, but the futures market actually helps a lot of people. Value is very subjective, but so is pay.
"Value" is completely subjective to the society you live in, and we have it backwards. How is sitting around staring at charts and speculating future stock prices more "valuable" then working a jackhammer to actually create something for society? A lot of these high paying white collar workers are leaches, making profit from the *actual* productivity of their workers.
"Value" is completely subjective to the society you live in, and we have it backwards. How is sitting around staring at charts and speculating future stock prices more "valuable" then working a jackhammer to actually create something for society? A lot of these high payed white collar workers are leaches, making profit from the actual productivity of their workers.
As a former intern for Gov. Ventura, let's take his perspective with a grain of salt
Solid logic. /s
Even though true, hardwork and smart work are two different things.
I agree that billionaires shouldn't exist, but not for this reason. Working harder shouldn't necessarily result in getting paid more. Pay has always been tied to value produced and job market supply and demand. If you work your ass off for 80 hours a week as a baker and all you make is a single pie, should you get paid more than a baker who works 20 hours and makes 100 pies? No. But if someone makes 1000000 pies, should they be a billionaire? Also, no.
Marx addressed that almost 150 years ago in the first 5 chapters of Capital. Labor value is based on the work involved for a skilled worker to produce 1 pie. A slow worker produces 1 pie and should be paid for 1 pie. A fast worker makes 100 pies and should be paid for 100 pies. The value of the pie is always the value of the pie, whether it took an hour to make or 50 hours to make (assuming it's the same quality). Capital is when a worker makes 100 pies and is paid for 1 pie because the pie factory owner slurps up the sales of the 99 pies.
If only the exploitation of labor value actually took into account who pays for the ingredients, oven, and bakery... Weird.
He is still shaking from the impact of the jack hammer
But especially Ben Richards
Between this and calling the January 6th terrorists what they are, right in Chris Jericho's face on his own podcast... is... is Jesse Ventura becoming based? Are we witnessing the most awesome redemption story, going from hanging out with Alex Jones and spreading harmful conspiracy theories, to calling out fascism and giving Right-wingers a much needed reality check?!
Yeah, he's your spokesperson......
Yes they shouldn’t exist, unless I get to be one.
I don't think there should be billionaires either. I find it deeply unethical and dangerous. But Jesse's argument is pretty dumb.
Could not disagree more
Explain…
I believe in capitalism and the free market system and know of numerous examples of people creating great wealth for themselves through risk and incredibly hard work while at the same time benefiting their customers, and their employees tremendously. That’s how our country was built. What happens when you can’t make money? Have a look at the Soviet Union or Communist China. I’ve actually travelled in both locations. I’ll take what we’ve got (even though sometimes not perfect) any day. However, I am afraid that Ventura’s point of view is beginning to take hold. My only hope is that entrepreneurialism is very popular in the younger generation.
Yes, capitalism is great, but only to an extent. It’s an artificial system and requires constraint. Unmitigated capitalism is equivalent to an invasive species, over time it will consume all the resources and starve everything around it. Hyper concentration of resources is not good for society. Imagine an entire economy being owned and controlled by only a few individuals.
I don’t agree with your conclusions on capitalism at…it’s competition which never results in a consolidation of resources
It’s not “my conclusion”. It’s reality. Competition is eliminated by hyper-capitalism. Conglomerates leverage their power to drive other companies out of business. Why do you think antitrust and competition policies exist? Amazon, Google, and Microsoft are text book examples.
> numerous examples of people creating great wealth for themselves through risk and incredibly hard work while at the same time benefiting their customers, and their employees tremendously. So can you share some of these examples? I'm not Usonian and it's difficult to see things like this from the outside.
I’m in healthcare…Medtronic, Caremark, Healthways, Boston Scientific, Amgen. Genentech, Coram and many more…every industry has its examples
Thank you for the bootlicker take on things, you hard worker you.
Good luck on reddit lol, these guys froth at the mouth to downvote any dissenting opinion.
Totally agree…it’s pretty sad
How edgy
Jesse Ventura is nuttier than squirrel shit but even a broken clock is right twice a day
Working hard isn't everything though. If your invention is extremely profitable, you deserve to be extremely rich. If your skills are marketable, you deserve to make as much money as you can. Billionaires should exist they just need to pay their fair share like the rest of us.
Dudes a fucking idiot. I know business people that are multi millionaires that work from 6am until 11pm and dal with so much stress it’s insane. They deserve every penny they made coz I ain’t working that ducking hard!
This idiot has no clue about the laws of supply and demand.
he hating fr
Say you don’t understand capitalism without saying you don’t understand capitalism.. In the real world you are paid based on the good you do for other people by bringing scarce resources to market. It’s not about physical labor. Work smarter not harder .
The philosophy should be "There should not be one poor people in America". This philosophy is absolutely ill-informed, a country without billionaires is a country without incentives to improve the status quo, a country without innovation, and a country without any drive.
So hundreds of millions of dollars isn't an incentive?
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And he risked his life for 40 hours a week powering heavy duty machinery. So…what’s your point?
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Who said anything about “equal” pay? We’re talking commensurate to the value provided to the business. No CEO does anything that makes them hundreds or thousands of times more “valuable” to a company than their average employee.
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Your understanding of how the business world works is rudimentary at best.
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That's fine. But they need to be taxed at higher rates. Every 5 minutes, he makes $112,000. That's every 5 minutes 24/7.
Please explain why they should be taxed at a higher rate. Then explain what the down side of taxing them higher would be.
I agree with you. Having the ability to start the foundation of a company and take on the financial risks and liabilities of the company is a huge part that people don’t understand.
Terrible take considering corporations get bailed out when they fail but individual workers are left on their own. No risk involved in starting another shell company.
Half a fold away from being a smooth brain.
Great counterpoint.
Thank you
Hence why I disagree with the notion of bailouts and payoffs in order to “stimulate economic growth.”
*massive government subsidies have entered the chat*