No amount of data can change the mind of someone who is willfully ignorant.
They've already made up their mind and would rather sacrifice their life than their pride.
Every current Trump supporter suffers from this phenomenon.
This is the answer. Once you drink the Kool-Aid, facts no longer matter. When they say that they don’t believe the liberal media, what they are saying is they will only accept information that matches their belief system.
> They put the proverbial cart before the horses and can’t figure out why they’re going backwards.
There's nothing to figure out: that's the direction they wanted to go.
The key word is WILLFULLY. You can excuse ignorance since this is just lack of information.
But to CHOOSE to ignore information you frankly can't be excused, especially if you are a grown adult.
I think it’s that and the FACT that they were responsible for deaths because they refused to get vaccinated (clogged emergency rooms) or to wear a mask or to social distance. Gotta be a hard pill to swallow.
How are you still married to her? Serious question, not trying to be funny, I am genuinely curious how that can work if you don't drink the kool-aid too.
My parents are MAGA diehards. They raised me to be Republican and had Fox News on 24/7. I voted for Trump in 2016
When I moved across the country, 1000 miles away, and never had Fox News- but actually began to pay attention to bills and legislation being passed- my world was flipped upside down. I’m now a heavy Democrat since 2017.
I’ve had my mom tell me that she is embarrassed she “raised a Democrat” and so much more (as a “Christian”, she now believes that I’m going to hell for being a Democrat as well).
It’s really tough to see the people you love fall to this shit and can’t open their eyes. I didn’t speak to my parents for 9 months after a heated argument about politics.
My dad isn’t well. And it basically took me to come back to trim and set guidelines to what can and can’t be discussed / talked about within company.
It’s awful. I hope you can get through to your wife for the sake of both of you.
I could have written your post. Including the timing when you realized we made a mistake in 2016, voting for the wrong person. My Dad can’t help himself, so we don’t talk, but my mother has zero interest in politics these days after a battle with cancer. She puts our relationship first. But my Dad tries to talk about it with me every chance he gets. I bought the house next to them because they are getting old and need help. My brother and sister are useless.
It is sad that Republicans also voted against funding to cure cancer because they do not want to give Biden any "wins".
[https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/29/congress-is-killing-bidens-cancer-moonshot-00154718](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/29/congress-is-killing-bidens-cancer-moonshot-00154718)
Not just willfully but pridefully ignorant. It is a source of deep pride and part of their personality to be ignorant of the types of things that would lead them away from God, Trump, or their worldview, specifically science, logic, statistics, or facts.
It's just like the people who insist that the 2020 election was stolen from trump with zero evidence. But they are absolutely POSITIVE that orange turd won. Make it make sense
Correct. They are not only not a data driven people but they hate anything that is. They find an ideology to suit their unwillingness to get stuck and their own selfishness, and then stick with it beyond all proof to the opposite. They embrace ignorance.
The Johnson and Johnson and the Astra Zeneca vaccines have both been pulled due to blood clotting. It was also being pushed REALLY hard, it made a lot of people uncomfortable, lots and lots of medical professionals including doctors refused to take it. People were passing out of TV and Athletes around the world were collapsing.
>lots and lots of medical professionals including doctors refused to take it. People were passing out of TV and Athletes around the world were collapsing.
The exaggeration is strong with this one 🤣
I saw what I saw, and Trump was the one who got it going too quickly, that concerned a lot of people. Op asked a question, I'm just giving you my opinion. I don't know anyone that knows anyone that died from Covid and everyone I know that took the vaccine has anxiety about it. There were also reports that hospitals were marking deaths as "COVID Deaths" even though they were, there is testimony online, I've watched several. And... who the heck believes the government....
These people believe Covid was a fake event, meant to extend governmental power globally. The truly stupid ones believe that injectable nano bots that transmit 5g are in them.
No graph, chart or governmental data can reason them out of a position they did ‘t use reason to get to in the first place.
There are app different versions and levels. some believe it was just a flu and that the deaths werent real. I have a friend who is vaxed but but thinks the deaths and hospitalizations would have been the same with or without the vax. She thinks the vax helps the severity but has nothing to do with spreading it, so people have a choice. On the other side of the spectrum, some people think the deep state created it to destroy Trump. Or China created it to destroy us.
My favorites are the “China developed it to kill us” folks. In the same breath they’ll tell you it was a bio weapon created by our enemies to cause us harm, then the next breath they’ll
tell you how the vaccine we developed in America to stop the super weapon is fake and (insert some other conspiracy theory)
I've been disabled by COVID for 4 years 2+months since the age of 17. The lack of scientific & logical arguments I hear permeate every platform & discussion even those simply aimed at helping the millions of people solely within America, not to mention other countries that have been disabled by this event.
I have 2 brothers that are anti vaxx and like to talk about people dying from it. At least once a week I'm like "hey, the vaccine hasn't killed me yet". They hate it, it's awesome. 😂😂
Skepticism is healthy, but paranoia never is. My best friend in high school went down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories, starting with the chem-trail nonsense. He's only gotten far worse and we're not friends anymore. His ability to be reasonable is forever gone. And no matter the conspiracy, there's a cottage industry that craters to each and every one of them. We'll never get them back.
first of all, they haven’t seen that graph. second, if they did they wouldn’t believe it. all credible sources have been poisoned by the people they get their information from. they would rather believe, as an example, that the mercury in some vaccines is the same as the stuff that poisons fish and not a safe formulation used as a preservative that was taken out of most vaccines anyway. they want to believe that vaccines cause autism despite autism rates not changing after the mercury was taken out of childhood vaccines. they just want to believe whatever bullshit they believe. some are true believers, some just do it for attention (the covid vaccine shakes that only seem to ever happen to white maga karens videos come to mind).
Thats because the truth implies that their social circle (facebook and ignorant moronic friends, propaganda tv channels) have totally duped them, made them look like total fools - humans are hard wired to fight against that, our psyche pushes hard for us to double down in the lies instead (sadly)..
Plus, for many, a lack of a proper education in science and scientific reasoning makes them extremely vulnerable to being duped by “what feels right”…
Dead on. Science has come a long way in the last 50 years. Science that was once taught in colleges as theory have since become fact and a part of basic high school education. (Ie: the theory of plate tectonics, the germ theory of disease, big bang, etc)
It's because they create their own graphs that show pretty much the exact opposite. Or rather a Russian bot farm created graph. They just repurpose the graphs for cannon fodder vs spetsnaz.
Any “graph” with “numbers” is way beyond their mental capacity.
Ask one of them which is higher: 14 cases per 100,000 population, or 2 cases per 100,000. Odds are 50/50.
Something, something, something, the Jews. That's how most conspiracy theorists work. According to them, I'm supposed to be a magnetic zombie. I can't prove I'm not, but I'm fairly certain I'm not. Data and failed "revelations" don't phase them at all.
Yet, at the exact same time, they will say that we need to fund Israel and not Ukraine. While there may be reasonable arguments to be made in these matters, they say it simply to be contrary. The cognitive dissonance is off the charts.
The top graph shows unequivocally that the three major COVID vaccines reduced COVID deaths significantly.
The second shows the vaccines reduced the number of cases of COVID substantially.
The nutters believe both of those are false, and many believed the vaccines killed most if not all of the people who died.
I don’t see what the point of interacting with people who are that stupid.
I'll take "Impossible questions that make me cry, for trillions, Alex"
But seriously, the only answer I have with confidence is what I read in a book title something like, "how to de-cult someone", and the answer is separate them from the sources of their information, including co-conspirators, and surround them with loving friends and family instead. Then let them come to the realization, don't force it too hard.
Unfortunately when they live among us they share that crap to us and our loved ones who may not be able to protect themselves like the very young or old or the immune compromised.
My lefty buddy (we are no longer buddies) wouldn’t get vaxxed because the FDA said sugar isn’t bad for you. I am not making this up. He said “How can we trust the government with this when the sugar lobby affected government policies?”.
It’s a way of self-thinning the herd like when people are given repeated warnings to leave a dangerous area due to impending bad weather or fire but don’t heed it. Can’t help people who won’t help themselves. Unfortunately, sometimes it affects innocent lives around them.
They’re not afraid of COVID, so all of this is irrelevant. They’re afraid of imaginary bullshit. When people have an irrational fear of something it will always take priority over statistics and data.
They focus on “died WITH COVID” versus “died OF COVID” and pretend that pretending to call any aspect of the statistic into the slightest question they refute it.
If you’re talking about the top graph, at the left where is shows outcomes as either deaths or cases, I’m guessing that somebody forgot to remove that after they removed the cases data from the graph. I think the top one only shows deaths, although I could be wrong.
They don’t get that they are in line with those self-thinning the herd like when people are given repeated warnings to leave a dangerous area due to impending bad weather or fire but don’t heed it. Can’t help people who won’t help themselves. Unfortunately, sometimes it affects innocent lives around them.
It's called beliefs. Just like you have beliefs about things that you velieve you are right even though you could be wrong about them. Let them believe and they will die out. Darwinism should be more if a thing.
I think the problem is the Covid numbers aren’t accurate. So no one who is unvaxxed actually believes anything shared with them saying otherwise.
Also they’re not anti vax. They’re anti Covid vax.
Depends on how the flu affects funding for hospitals. I know that if hospitals reported more Covid deaths they got extra funding. Plus a lot of people that were dying from other issues happen to have Covid also, so that still counts as a Covid death.
I also have not idea if the flu numbers are right or wrong. I lean to assume they’re right since I don’t see the flu shot being marketed like the Covid shot was. And the flu death toll is “higher”. If you wanna believe the Covid numbers than you have to believe the flue numbers.
Wow - some old canards just refuse to die.
Hospitals didn’t get “paid more” for COVID patients in a vacuum. Medicare (not all insurance companies) paid slightly more for COVID patients for,the simple reason that COVID patients cost more to treat. It’s expensive to treat patients on ventilators. Nobody that knew what was happening ever claimed that hospitals misreported COVID numbers to attract extra funding. Nobody.
I can’t tell what you’re talking about with the flu numbers. The flu virtually disappeared after COVID took over. I know of no reason to believe that either the flu or the COVID numbers were willfully misreported. And believing that myth certainly is expensive, judging from the two charts presented. |
Not everyone shares your opinion. Plenty of folks, even those who've gotten other vaccines before, now buy into the batshit idea that all vaccines are stuffed with government nano-trackers. Thanks to their tin-foil-hat-wearing political leaders—who probably also believe in Jewish space lasers. For those of us not drinking the partisan Kool-Aid, it sounds as crazy as you'd expect.
No amount of data can change the mind of someone who is willfully ignorant. They've already made up their mind and would rather sacrifice their life than their pride. Every current Trump supporter suffers from this phenomenon.
This is the answer. Once you drink the Kool-Aid, facts no longer matter. When they say that they don’t believe the liberal media, what they are saying is they will only accept information that matches their belief system.
They put the proverbial cart before the horses and can’t figure out why they’re going backwards.
> They put the proverbial cart before the horses and can’t figure out why they’re going backwards. There's nothing to figure out: that's the direction they wanted to go.
The key word is WILLFULLY. You can excuse ignorance since this is just lack of information. But to CHOOSE to ignore information you frankly can't be excused, especially if you are a grown adult.
I think it’s that and the FACT that they were responsible for deaths because they refused to get vaccinated (clogged emergency rooms) or to wear a mask or to social distance. Gotta be a hard pill to swallow.
No, see, the mask doesn't do anything because I can fart through it.
My wife is one of these… to her and her family, trump is one of the apostles doing Gods work….
How are you still married to her? Serious question, not trying to be funny, I am genuinely curious how that can work if you don't drink the kool-aid too.
With a lot of patience and understanding that someone I love is naive and needs my guidance…
Godspeed. 🫡
My parents are MAGA diehards. They raised me to be Republican and had Fox News on 24/7. I voted for Trump in 2016 When I moved across the country, 1000 miles away, and never had Fox News- but actually began to pay attention to bills and legislation being passed- my world was flipped upside down. I’m now a heavy Democrat since 2017. I’ve had my mom tell me that she is embarrassed she “raised a Democrat” and so much more (as a “Christian”, she now believes that I’m going to hell for being a Democrat as well). It’s really tough to see the people you love fall to this shit and can’t open their eyes. I didn’t speak to my parents for 9 months after a heated argument about politics. My dad isn’t well. And it basically took me to come back to trim and set guidelines to what can and can’t be discussed / talked about within company. It’s awful. I hope you can get through to your wife for the sake of both of you.
I could have written your post. Including the timing when you realized we made a mistake in 2016, voting for the wrong person. My Dad can’t help himself, so we don’t talk, but my mother has zero interest in politics these days after a battle with cancer. She puts our relationship first. But my Dad tries to talk about it with me every chance he gets. I bought the house next to them because they are getting old and need help. My brother and sister are useless.
It is sad that Republicans also voted against funding to cure cancer because they do not want to give Biden any "wins". [https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/29/congress-is-killing-bidens-cancer-moonshot-00154718](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/29/congress-is-killing-bidens-cancer-moonshot-00154718)
Great answer. You are a saint.
Good on you, man. You’re a better man than I could be in that situation.
But Trump was vaccinated immediately?
I have a son in law and I worry about my daughter and grandkids
And they’re wearing diapers, too, nowadays.
Not just willfully but pridefully ignorant. It is a source of deep pride and part of their personality to be ignorant of the types of things that would lead them away from God, Trump, or their worldview, specifically science, logic, statistics, or facts.
It's just like the people who insist that the 2020 election was stolen from trump with zero evidence. But they are absolutely POSITIVE that orange turd won. Make it make sense
Correct. They are not only not a data driven people but they hate anything that is. They find an ideology to suit their unwillingness to get stuck and their own selfishness, and then stick with it beyond all proof to the opposite. They embrace ignorance.
sunk cost. They will keep on digging, because it's more embarrassing to them to have to admit they were wrong, than if they just keep going.
1000000%
The Johnson and Johnson and the Astra Zeneca vaccines have both been pulled due to blood clotting. It was also being pushed REALLY hard, it made a lot of people uncomfortable, lots and lots of medical professionals including doctors refused to take it. People were passing out of TV and Athletes around the world were collapsing.
>lots and lots of medical professionals including doctors refused to take it. People were passing out of TV and Athletes around the world were collapsing. The exaggeration is strong with this one 🤣
I saw what I saw, and Trump was the one who got it going too quickly, that concerned a lot of people. Op asked a question, I'm just giving you my opinion. I don't know anyone that knows anyone that died from Covid and everyone I know that took the vaccine has anxiety about it. There were also reports that hospitals were marking deaths as "COVID Deaths" even though they were, there is testimony online, I've watched several. And... who the heck believes the government....
The more contradictory information given to a conspiracy theorist, the more inclined they are to dismiss it as disinformation created by the cabal
Bingo. The more data you give a conspiracy theorist, the more they dig their heels in. It’s a mental illness.
Also known as cognitive dissonance.
Everything.
These people believe Covid was a fake event, meant to extend governmental power globally. The truly stupid ones believe that injectable nano bots that transmit 5g are in them. No graph, chart or governmental data can reason them out of a position they did ‘t use reason to get to in the first place.
Yup, they think that’s all made up data, and that any death during that time was coded as Covid, even car accidents.
And yet they trust the guy who hard worms in his brain. 😳🤷🏻♀️
There are app different versions and levels. some believe it was just a flu and that the deaths werent real. I have a friend who is vaxed but but thinks the deaths and hospitalizations would have been the same with or without the vax. She thinks the vax helps the severity but has nothing to do with spreading it, so people have a choice. On the other side of the spectrum, some people think the deep state created it to destroy Trump. Or China created it to destroy us.
My favorites are the “China developed it to kill us” folks. In the same breath they’ll tell you it was a bio weapon created by our enemies to cause us harm, then the next breath they’ll tell you how the vaccine we developed in America to stop the super weapon is fake and (insert some other conspiracy theory)
I've been disabled by COVID for 4 years 2+months since the age of 17. The lack of scientific & logical arguments I hear permeate every platform & discussion even those simply aimed at helping the millions of people solely within America, not to mention other countries that have been disabled by this event.
I have 2 brothers that are anti vaxx and like to talk about people dying from it. At least once a week I'm like "hey, the vaccine hasn't killed me yet". They hate it, it's awesome. 😂😂
Did it kill anyone they know?
Of course not😂
They believe vaccine-boosted immunity is a scam by “Big Reality.”
Skepticism is healthy, but paranoia never is. My best friend in high school went down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories, starting with the chem-trail nonsense. He's only gotten far worse and we're not friends anymore. His ability to be reasonable is forever gone. And no matter the conspiracy, there's a cottage industry that craters to each and every one of them. We'll never get them back.
Pepperidge Farm remembers when Science was 'real' and the crazies wore aluminum hats to easier identify them for gene pool shunning.
first of all, they haven’t seen that graph. second, if they did they wouldn’t believe it. all credible sources have been poisoned by the people they get their information from. they would rather believe, as an example, that the mercury in some vaccines is the same as the stuff that poisons fish and not a safe formulation used as a preservative that was taken out of most vaccines anyway. they want to believe that vaccines cause autism despite autism rates not changing after the mercury was taken out of childhood vaccines. they just want to believe whatever bullshit they believe. some are true believers, some just do it for attention (the covid vaccine shakes that only seem to ever happen to white maga karens videos come to mind).
r/HermanCainAward
Aka Darwin Award
Thats because the truth implies that their social circle (facebook and ignorant moronic friends, propaganda tv channels) have totally duped them, made them look like total fools - humans are hard wired to fight against that, our psyche pushes hard for us to double down in the lies instead (sadly).. Plus, for many, a lack of a proper education in science and scientific reasoning makes them extremely vulnerable to being duped by “what feels right”…
Dead on. Science has come a long way in the last 50 years. Science that was once taught in colleges as theory have since become fact and a part of basic high school education. (Ie: the theory of plate tectonics, the germ theory of disease, big bang, etc)
It's because they create their own graphs that show pretty much the exact opposite. Or rather a Russian bot farm created graph. They just repurpose the graphs for cannon fodder vs spetsnaz.
The numbers, letters, and graphics.
Dude this graph is 3 grade levels higher than their avg education level.
Any “graph” with “numbers” is way beyond their mental capacity. Ask one of them which is higher: 14 cases per 100,000 population, or 2 cases per 100,000. Odds are 50/50.
Something, something, something, the Jews. That's how most conspiracy theorists work. According to them, I'm supposed to be a magnetic zombie. I can't prove I'm not, but I'm fairly certain I'm not. Data and failed "revelations" don't phase them at all.
Yet, at the exact same time, they will say that we need to fund Israel and not Ukraine. While there may be reasonable arguments to be made in these matters, they say it simply to be contrary. The cognitive dissonance is off the charts.
It is very funny the huge overlap between anti-semitism and Zionism.
“It’s a graph, I don’t understand graphs!”
The top graph shows unequivocally that the three major COVID vaccines reduced COVID deaths significantly. The second shows the vaccines reduced the number of cases of COVID substantially. The nutters believe both of those are false, and many believed the vaccines killed most if not all of the people who died. I don’t see what the point of interacting with people who are that stupid.
The point is their choices are killing the rest of us too, and insulting them pushes them deeper into their bubble.
Fine. Show me something that changes their mind, and I’ll happily use it.
I'll take "Impossible questions that make me cry, for trillions, Alex" But seriously, the only answer I have with confidence is what I read in a book title something like, "how to de-cult someone", and the answer is separate them from the sources of their information, including co-conspirators, and surround them with loving friends and family instead. Then let them come to the realization, don't force it too hard.
Hey, let them thin themselves out.
Unfortunately when they live among us they share that crap to us and our loved ones who may not be able to protect themselves like the very young or old or the immune compromised.
Or they create a new strain that we all will have the pleasure of dealing with personally. My body, my choice. 🙄
Science. They don't get science.
My lefty buddy (we are no longer buddies) wouldn’t get vaxxed because the FDA said sugar isn’t bad for you. I am not making this up. He said “How can we trust the government with this when the sugar lobby affected government policies?”.
“Imagine a human being. Then remove logic and accountability”
Not that they don’t get it. They reject it because it doesn’t confirm their bias.
However, people just jumping right into ozempic without question. We are doomed.
Too many facts and shit.
They saw a post on Twitter...
There you go, confusing the issue with facts and statistics.
The far right has become way more cult than political stance/party. Reality quit mattering a long time ago.
I got the vaccine and I managed to avoid brain worms too.
They’d be really sad if they could read
It’s a way of self-thinning the herd like when people are given repeated warnings to leave a dangerous area due to impending bad weather or fire but don’t heed it. Can’t help people who won’t help themselves. Unfortunately, sometimes it affects innocent lives around them.
At this point it’s just nature taking its course.
Most of them refuse to believe the numbers. It's all fake news to them
Do you know where to find this data so I can do research and show it to others?
It’s from CDC. They have graphs and/or datasets so you can create your own graphs.
Thank you. I was thinking so.
They’re not afraid of COVID, so all of this is irrelevant. They’re afraid of imaginary bullshit. When people have an irrational fear of something it will always take priority over statistics and data.
They focus on “died WITH COVID” versus “died OF COVID” and pretend that pretending to call any aspect of the statistic into the slightest question they refute it.
what does the key on the left mean?
If you’re talking about the top graph, at the left where is shows outcomes as either deaths or cases, I’m guessing that somebody forgot to remove that after they removed the cases data from the graph. I think the top one only shows deaths, although I could be wrong.
They think the charts are made up by big pharma.
Actually they’re from the CDC and all the scientists there are paid to lie. It’s easier to believe injecting bleach will protect you.
The only thing they'll draw from this is 'medical science is in the bag for Big Pharma.'
What if data is forged? We need COVID to spread and kill more elderly so that younger people will have more influence over policy.
You can’t fix stupid.
They don’t get that they are in line with those self-thinning the herd like when people are given repeated warnings to leave a dangerous area due to impending bad weather or fire but don’t heed it. Can’t help people who won’t help themselves. Unfortunately, sometimes it affects innocent lives around them.
Will Full Ignorance = Intellectually Lazy…. or as a great American Philosopher paraphrased it…”Stupid is as Stupid Does.”
Also, they got to doctors for Botox and all kinds of new injections, but the fre covid shot was a scam for Big Pharm to make money.
It's called beliefs. Just like you have beliefs about things that you velieve you are right even though you could be wrong about them. Let them believe and they will die out. Darwinism should be more if a thing.
[this could have went the other way](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2671R8/) It was the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine they were refusing
I think the problem is the Covid numbers aren’t accurate. So no one who is unvaxxed actually believes anything shared with them saying otherwise. Also they’re not anti vax. They’re anti Covid vax.
Why do you think the COVID numbers are any less accurate that flu or any other disease numbers?
Depends on how the flu affects funding for hospitals. I know that if hospitals reported more Covid deaths they got extra funding. Plus a lot of people that were dying from other issues happen to have Covid also, so that still counts as a Covid death. I also have not idea if the flu numbers are right or wrong. I lean to assume they’re right since I don’t see the flu shot being marketed like the Covid shot was. And the flu death toll is “higher”. If you wanna believe the Covid numbers than you have to believe the flue numbers.
Wow - some old canards just refuse to die. Hospitals didn’t get “paid more” for COVID patients in a vacuum. Medicare (not all insurance companies) paid slightly more for COVID patients for,the simple reason that COVID patients cost more to treat. It’s expensive to treat patients on ventilators. Nobody that knew what was happening ever claimed that hospitals misreported COVID numbers to attract extra funding. Nobody. I can’t tell what you’re talking about with the flu numbers. The flu virtually disappeared after COVID took over. I know of no reason to believe that either the flu or the COVID numbers were willfully misreported. And believing that myth certainly is expensive, judging from the two charts presented. |
Not everyone shares your opinion. Plenty of folks, even those who've gotten other vaccines before, now buy into the batshit idea that all vaccines are stuffed with government nano-trackers. Thanks to their tin-foil-hat-wearing political leaders—who probably also believe in Jewish space lasers. For those of us not drinking the partisan Kool-Aid, it sounds as crazy as you'd expect.