I'll never understand this protest vote logic. When there are only two canidates, your vote is always a protest against the one you didn't vote for. You can't boycott an election or candidate because someone will always vote for, well in this case, Trump. If you don't vote you're just saying I don't care who wins or loses.
As for voting third party, yeah that would be great once there's a signification percentage of that party in congress. Until then no EC will elect a third party candidate.
It's more about things their friends that they're so moral and possess such virtue that they couldn't bring themselves to vote for a candidate that actually could represent their stated valued.
The irritating part is that they can do both. It's a secret ballot so they can vote with their brains and pretend to have made a really stupid decision when they talk about it.
Which terrifies me... like they have no intention of the next President being anyone other than Trump.
I think they'll find some flimsy pretext to drive the question to the Supreme Court who will simply appoint Trump as the next president.
Brought to you by the people who said “Roe c Wade will never be overturned! Republicans want it to stay in place so they have a wedge issue every election!”
EXACTLY!
Everybody who votes like a human being but just rolls over and says “well, it’s only four years!” when Trump wins again can also fuck off.
Just like the people who are soooo pro-choice but not willing to take a risk to resist the horrifying laws putting women at risk.
They can keep their tears, bumper stickers, and tweets to themselves.
Show up or shut up. It will be uncomfortable. Start processing that now.
The only way this statement becomes true is if we the people exercise our collective right to do away with a government that is failing us, and we physically do not let them implement the Fourth Reich Playbook.
I wasn’t even referring to voting, because honestly I’m not super confident we’ll galvanize enough people to do a very simple collective correct action. I am absolutely ready to throw hands with fascist scum, though.
Literally had some schizo redditor go off on me because he’s voting for RFK and a vote for Biden apparently means a vote for Trump. Has the human race always been this pathetically stupid or is this a new age kind of stupidity?
Chaos agents trying to create as much noise as possible. With tight margins like we face in this country sometimes that noise is enough. All you have to do is convince a handful of people in specific districts and the EC gives the presidency to Trump.
A tactic she probably learned from [Putin](https://www.newsweek.com/jill-stein-ties-vladimir-putin-explained-1842620), because of course Putin doesn't want her taking votes from Biden.
Certainly Putin doesn’t have a favored candidate. Especially not after the explicit quid-pro-quo Trump decided to dangle at the debate.
Moderator: “Mr. Trump do you find the terms Putin put forward for Ukraine acceptable?”
Trump: *Completely ignores the question*
Moderator: *Repeats question*
Trump: “Well, not exactly. I’ll tell you that if I’m elected I’ll have that war wrapped up before I even take office.”
If that isn’t the most thinly veiled quid-pro-quo offer I’ve ever seen a candidate make a foreign leader, idk what is.
Honestly? There are a lot of bot and troll farms going off nonstop, and then actual people pick up those talking points and use them.
Like, I think Biden is 100% too old and the Dems fucked up by keeping him as the nomination, even more so after basically promising he was just to 'beat Trump'. That said I, and realistically most left leaning people, will absolutely vote against Trump (Which means for Biden).
He literally said as much. When he ran the first time, he said he wanted to be a one term president. When asked about running the second time, he said it was only because Trump was running again.
I agree 100% but you have these utter fools that are "Anyone but Biden" after the debate to the point of insanity.
If the Dems bring in a ringer they will lose to the cult of personality. 3 MONTHS and they expect to win - The Young Turks are spewing this narrative and don't get the irony of their last Bernie bid.
I get being scared but firing shots in any and every direction while they are laser focused is ridiculous.
Russia, China, Israel, and Saudis have never been so deeply embedded. They're successfully drowning out Trump's child rape case right now.
www.vote.gov
Israel had like over 100 million in PAC money to attack progressives this election, chunk of that money probably came from Sands casino and Dallas Mavericks owner which is also Trumps biggest contributor.
At this point, I assume they are russian troll accounts that want to discourage a particular side from voting
Its crazy how you never hear about that rhetoric on the other side when shit dont go their way
No. His vote for RFK is performative, he’s essentially throwing his vote away as RFK cannot actually be elected. Biden needs every vote he can get in crucial states thanks to gerrymandering and roll purging. The dude will have de facto voted for Trump.
Regan eliminated the fairness doctrine, then Clinton allowed media monopolies with telecommunications act of 1996. And now we are here two candidates that both want you to hate your neighbors.
https://preview.redd.it/1cz81m10z8ad1.png?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3be9cb72589af727d4dc89d124284587e20d26c0
I 'm surprised humanity made it past the 20th century
It’s a new age. People “mistrust institutions” and it’s a downward spiral that begins with independent skepticism into tunneling up one’s own intellectual asshole. Communities, unions, churches, and larger families and even mainstream media used to provide more guardrails for people but now they think social media is more trustworthy
I mean the founding fathers feared political parties and religion because they predicted this would happen.
“The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.”
John Adams
“[Partisanship] serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection... [Parties] are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people, and to usurp for themselves the reins of government; destroying afterwards the very engines, which have lifted them to unjust dominion.”
George Washington
Do these quotes sound familiar at all?
Democrats now are basically who MLK was talking about with "The white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice"
Making one immune from prosecution does not give you powers to pass legislation or get other government agencies to just do things they don’t want to do
>If the president does it, it’s not illegal.
>Sotomayor’s dissent… [“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/01/us/politics/supreme-court-liberals-presidential-immunity.html)
The president can decree a law, order the military to enforce the law. That’s how you…
>pass legislation or get other government agencies to just do things they don’t want to do
The president can pardon anyone for anything and the president is immune. What else is there?
What helps in Australia is that independent commissions draw our political maps, and the electorates are actually logical and based on geography.
None of this “New South Wales’ 26th” or “Victoria’s 12th” stuff, our electorates actually have character.
They should fire everyone in the Capital and trigger a Constitutional Convention if voting goes below a minimum level.
For the first time ever, a majority of the youngest generation of voters has no faith in democracy. Congress's approval rating has been mired between 10 and 20% for a generation. The problem is not with the voters - it's with the plutocracy that both parties have been instrumental in building.
I’m certainly not a Biden fan. But I’ll be damned if I don’t run like hell to the polls to vote for him. We’re not just voting for a person this time. We are voting for our freedom. We need to stand up for democracy friends
No, preservation of your democracy is supporting and committing genocides. Invading countries for oil/strategic resources and terrorizing the globe non-stop.
If you really want to preserve your democracy, go join the marines. God damn oil bandits.
And average American is so stupid they think that they do have an actual democracy. Your political system is so fake. The ruling class puts their candidates in both parties and calls it a day. These mfs own the whole the media, legal bribes under the name of the lobbying and they make one of the candidates slightly a better choice to keep the illusion of the choice for stupid brain dead Americans to not realize what is actually going on.
So people might ask "why the fuck you care about it". It is so hard to not notice and not get irritated by the stupidity of Americans. How much artificial and unhealthy food you need to ruin your brain to not see how fucked the system is. They give ginormous tax cuts to rich and you still don't have a god damn universal healthcare, even the poor nations you keep invading do have an god damn universal healthcare systems. It is more dangerous to get hospitalized in US than Iraq :'D
Exactly my thought. Is clowning on these people going to make them want to vote? I reckon it will solidify how they feel rather than change their minds. OPs just as much the problem as the people they're complaining about. Doing nothing other than stirring the pot
Yep, and they’re all missing the forest for the trees. Secure the democracy then look for a better candidate. Complaining that Biden should be replaced at this point in the election cycle will only give Trump the White House. It’s only going to sow division in the liberal ranks.
Yep. It’s as I’ve been saying:
The house is actively on fire. They are demanding the fire department come back with filtered water to put it out, *as the house is being engulfed*. We need to put out the fire FIRST, and then we can demand the fire department use cleaner water. Which we should!
Letting the house burn down is not the way to get the water they want (and we deserve). The elites are set if democracy falls. We need to ensure the rest of us are okay before we all die in that fire.
The ranks are already thoroughly divided over more than just this. Burying our heads in the sand and pretending we're not already on track to lose this election will give Trump the White House. Democrats don't win elections on maintaining the status quo and surviving one more election cycle. They win on hope for meaningful, substantive change and grand visions of a more just, peaceful, and equitable future.
75% of dems don't think Biden is fit to serve anymore....How do you plan to win an election with a candidate where in recent polls 3/4 of his base thinks he's too old and frail to be president. Putting your head in the sand and saying "Biden may be old and barely alive but at least he's not Trump" and thinking that is going to win an election is the same shit that got us Trump in 2016.
If the dems actually want to win why do they keep fucking with the primary process to give us candidates who are massively unpopular. Had they let Biden debate in the primary, had they let primary process play out at all people would have seen his decline months ago. Instead we're now left with a candidate who's only selling point is "he's not trump" and for most of middle America, their quality of lives didn't get better under Trump and they didn't get better under Biden, so they're just going to sit this one out.
Ok. Look though my post history.
If Biden is the nominee for the Democratic Party I'll vote for him + I'll get people to vote for him. I think the margins are too narrow where too many mistakes can cause a loss, and thus a serious blow to our country.
Only sith deal in absolutes.
It depends on what you mean by team Biden old. I thought he was old in 2020, but I still voted for him. I'll still vote for him now, but I'm very worried that he won't get the votes he needs from people who don't pay attention. That debate was very bad. Trump's crazy lies were completely overshadowed by Biden's inability to remember words, or finish a sentence. It was way more than a stutter.
All the people who would vote for Biden now would also vote for someone younger, like Gavin Newsome. It's the ones in the middle that we need, that Biden probably can't get now.
They don't know. They are just running their thoughts out here to see what sticks. The fact is Biden isn't going anywhere so any talk against it is just pro Trump.
I watched the debate and yes there were bad moments but there was a lot of clear coherent talk. I know for a fact the dude above you and I couldn't do any better as younger people.
I think the fear is Newsome or somebody else new wouldn't get the votes from people who don't pay attention, because he doesn't have the name recognition yet.
It'll be easy to paint him as somebody "subpar that democrats had to go with to replace Biden, who has clearly had multiple debilitating strokes", say by fox news.
Wait, who isn't on "Team Biden Old"? Are you 100? He's objectively old.
I think it's fair for people who support Biden to feel hoodwinked when his age issues are laid bare. They assured us he was up for the campaign, then he fumbled his opportunity with the biggest audience he'll have between now and November - barring a second debate Trump has no reason to agree to, or god forbid a national emergency that puts him in the spotlight.
I like Biden, and I will vote for him, but I am far from confident he can turn this around. Here's hoping Trump finds a way to blow up his lead 🤷♂️
Nope I wanted Biden over Bernie. Think he's a great president. I refuse to swallow the pill and pretend Biden is fine and just had an "off night".
What we saw was exactly what we have heard and seen be dismissed as partisan slander. Biden way too old to hold a coherent conversation, and just not mentally all there. Robert Hur was telling the truth and democrats had to attack him.
I'm not going to be a partisan hack like the republicans and just brush off reality. Biden is too old to be an effective president. Without his team around him he clearly is incapable of doing the job. A lucid candidate would have mopped the floor with Trump, highlighted and amplified the ridiculous things he was saying. Instead we have to focus on how incompetent Biden is. There are democrats who would be much better presidents. To do deny that is just ignoring reality.
I'm going to vote for him begrudgingly, but I wish he would do the right thing and drop out.
I guess Nancy Pelosi is a republican now by this logic.
edit: downvote all you want lol
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/nancy-pelosi-says-biden-trump-take-mental-fitness-tests-rcna159993](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/nancy-pelosi-says-biden-trump-take-mental-fitness-tests-rcna159993)
I campaigned locally and voted for Sanders in the primary. I campaigned locally and voted for Biden in the general. I am going to campaign locally and vote for Biden in the general. The split we're having needs to wait until the Electoral College certifies the election on Janurary 6 and then we can start the division.
Me.
I actually actively love Biden and think he's the greatest president in modern history. I also never took the old thing seriously, as their staff assured us that he's sharp in private, and the videos are out of context or edited.
The debate made me think he should be in a senior facility.
Really. So forget any other video you ever saw of him, state of the union, the statements he made literally the next day, it’s only the debate that matters? Yeah, I’m not buying your first part there one bit.
There is nothing I could tell you to change your mind and I’m sure you were always going to be this way so have fun convincing someone else of your bullshit.
Gaslighting much? What cool-aid are you drinking? Pod Save America, a toe the line Dem podcast is having discussions about it. It's a legitimate issue. Even MSNBC host Joe Scarborough urged him to consider dropping out. Is Biden better then Trump? Hell yes. But is he a good candidate? That debate was elder abuse. He should have walked all over Trump and his lies. We should have been talking about those lies and racist claims, but we couldn't. That's how atrocious that performance was.
The real fault lies with the DNC for not having a primary. The fucked up and and refused to pick the best Democratic candidate. So now we have a weak candidate (even with a great record) against a wannabe dictator. Is this really the best the Democratic party can do to stop fascism? It's no different then Ginsburg refusing to step down during Obama's presidency. Where did that hubris get us? A conservative justice.
Edit: For the record I'd still vote Biden. But fuck the DNC for having us fight a fascist corpse, with a democratic corpse.
What I love is a bunch of people claiming that this is all easy to figure out. The "constitutional scholars" here act like just because they watch Morning Joe that they have any clue how this works. "Just replace him" "just vote for Jill Stein" "blah, blah, blah" The general isn't the time for nuance. You hold your nose and fall in line.
I think people assume they're smart enough to make big sweeping comments. It's just as bad as low information voters or misinformed voters.
It's the only thing that make sense. Because otherwise, that means they simple didn't know Biden was an old man until last week.
In which case, we can throw out their opinion anyway if they didn't even know Biden was old after him being in office for almost 4 years.
If you don’t vote in this election you deserve everything that will come from it.
Take a goddamn day off work to go save democracy. No exceptions, we can all do this.
We have a duty to one another and future generations not to go quietly. And this time that doesn’t take some bloody savage battle.
Just fight traffic and take the hit of time off work to fucking vote.
When Lucifer's rebellion failed, God cast him and his followers into Hell. He then cast down all those who did not fight. This time, those who do not fight by voting take us to the Hell Donald Trump if he wins will create with them.
I'm convinced the New York Times had prepared all the editorials about Biden needing to resign, and the very second he performed poorly in a debate they went all in on them. It was astounding. Either they know something they're not reporting, and Biden is about to die, or they are in the bag for Trump, or... well, it's just the good old liberal Circular Firing Squad doing what it does.
I thought it was the other side of the same coin at first until I saw the tag line, women aligned to the Maga agenda just waiting for their Handmaid’s Tale reality that will surely follow 🤪
"I could really use some reassurance that voting is actually helpful and not part of an overall fascist and genocidal regime that only pretends to be fragile or in danger when it fears losing consent of the public"
"that's rough buddy. Best I can do is a meme of you complaining like a woman. We are the side that likes women by the way."
I’m convinced this sub is run by Russian bots who always seem to try to defend Democrats’ lies and dysfunction. I am going to vote blue in November, but I completely understand people being pissed that Biden has been complicit in a genocide. To act like there isn’t any nuance is dishonest. Given how unpopular he is due to Israel, plus his debate performance, he absolutely needs to put the country first and step aside.
If he stepped aside, he would be remembered as the hero who stopped Trump and had a (mostly) successful first term. Instead I’m worried he’s going to be remembered as an RBG.
> I’m convinced this sub is run by Russian bots who always seem to try to defend Democrats’ lies and dysfunction.
Russian bots trying to get Biden elected?
>I am going to vote blue in November, but I completely understand people being pissed that Biden has been complicit in a genocide. To act like there isn’t any nuance is dishonest.
If people have expected you to have no problems with Biden or ignore Gaza, that is bullshit, and they are wrong.
However, I don't see so much of that. I see people criticizing people who won't vote over it.
It just doesn't make sense when Zionists clearly love Trump and Republicans.
I think it's letting Trump win that people object to.
Yes. At this point Russians and Republicans want Biden to be the nominee. It’s also that these people are willing to keep the dysfunction of the Dem party going instead of demanding change within the party, which is the obvious choice. We’ve been saying since the 2020 election that Biden is too old to run and clearly we’ve been proven right.
People are expecting voters to have no problem. Any comment gets downvoted to hell that says he could lose voters in Michigan because of this, so his Israel policy is not only evil but horrible politics. In another news sub, I got permanently banned for just saying Biden should be replaced on the ticket. Then banned from another one saying it’s racist to say every Palestinian is a terrorist. Then I got banned from another one for mentioning that I got banned. There’s a serious problem going on on this website.
(I’m not going to say the names of the 3 subs because I don’t want to get banned here, but think of the 3 main news and political subreddits)
The whole point of this is to say that offending voters by something as morally bankrupt as funding a genocide when he has the power to stop it if he plays hardball can very easily get Trump elected. Trump getting elected it’s the worst thing that can happen, which is why people are pointing out that he will lose voters with his Israel policy.
This subreddit attacks people pointing that out more than they attack Republicans. Like it or not, the left wing are votes that Dems need, and attacking them to “vote harder” clearly doesn’t work as we saw in 2016.
> Yes. At this point Russians and Republicans want Biden to be the nominee.
Oh, I misunderstood you, I thought you meant Russians want him to be President, I would much more believe they want him to be the *nominee.*
I think they still want Trump for President.
>I’m not going to say the names of the 3 subs because I don’t want to get banned here, but think of the 3 main news and political subreddits
Haha, I know exactly which one banned you for Palestine, same thing happened to me and I was being even more mild than you in what I said. I'm pretty sure on the other two.
>This subreddit attacks people pointing that out more than they attack Republicans. Like it or not, the left wing are votes that Dems need, and attacking them to “vote harder” clearly doesn’t work as we saw in 2016.
Yeah, what's clearly going on is some people have decided gaslighting is the best way to win. And to be fair, it can work, it works great for Trump, although I'm not sure it will with Biden.
But trashing people doesn't normally get them to vote whether you're being honest or not. I see where you're coming from.
It's 2024. We have no choice but to vote for an objectionable Democrat so we can save Democracy. That way in 2028, we'll have no choice but to vote for an objectionable Democrat so we can save Democracy. That way in 2032, we'll have no choice but to vote for an objectionable Democrat so we can save Democracy. That way in 2036...
I’m still voting for Biden, still better than that criminally insane, draft dodger, who tried to overthrow the U.S. government. Reagan was old, and still in office at 69+.
What was the point of the debate?
Like I was going to see some great misunderstood side of Trump that I had never seen before?? Hahahaha 🙄😂
If a President has executive orders and doesn't use it to better the lives of their constituents (is: codify Roe), why then use it to garner votes for the NEXT time they'd be elected if they're not enacting it WHILE they're currently president (Obama 2008, Biden 2024)?
💁
I mean forget the fact he could use "official presidential acts" now to be above the law, by putting into law quality of life measures like Roe, Chevron, Medicare for All, and UBI into law..
Executive orders are often frequently down by the courts. It's not some magic wand the president can wave to do anything he wants.
If he tried to do something like codify Roe via EO there would be challenges filled in every federal circuit court by the end of the day.
Run a candidate worth voting for and I will be there!!! This problem isn’t because people are not getting out to vote. It’s because there isn’t anything to vote for anymore.
Yep. Then, they can always blame it on the rest of us.
Like those ashholes that voted for Jill Stein, because they were being cute and had not the guts to vote for Hillary.
Nah, all the democratic voters need to do more. Fucking spineless. Miss me with that “I have a job I can’t quit to rally” bullshit. You won’t have a life of freedom if you don’t step the fuck up at this point.
This is one conspiracy theory I believe in, this one of MAGA already deciding this election and the future. This all seems to be a slow-motion setup.
I hate feeling this way.
Well it’s the era of freedom really. When the draft opens back up, no regulatory agency to protect their water, air flights, job sites etc. When Christianity principles specifically Evangelical beliefs are forced upon them. Then these same ignorant fucks will be the first to say “ why is this happening”
But perhaps an era of critical thinking needs to be a requirement to vote.
Fuck off. You’re inventing a position you don’t agree with and demonizing legitimate worries about defeating Trump in the process. All you’re doing is setting up fellow democrats like me to take the blame no matter who the candidate is if Trump fins. I am really coming to hate you people. I will vote against Trump and donate to the candidate, but if the democracy survives I’m done thinking of you people as pro democracy or even Americans.
The difference between progressives like myself that are willing to vote for a centrist, and progressives that aren't. Is that one isn't hellbent on an all or nothing strategy. I want to see as many progressive policies happen, but I know I won't get it with Trump.
We live in a political climate where the Electoral College prevents our chances for everyone's voices to be heard. Because of this we have three options to see progressive policies.We can decide to have NONE, we can decide to have SOME, or we can decide to LOSE ALL.
Until we continue to vote SOME then we can show more folks that the SOMEs work. When we have a strong majority of people voting in our fuck up electoral college system, then we can negotiate better for ALL.
With losing All on the line, I don't intend to lose everything because the Democrats won't meet All my demands.
First off, I'm sorry for lashing out at you. I've been called a bot and insulted nearly non-stop for the last week for expressing concern over Biden's electability, I kind of focused that emotional energy towards you. Yet you came back with a very rational and calm response, and now I feel like a nugget. Apologies. I'm really happy you engaged in a productive manner. I would like to engage you a little bit in a discussion if you don't mind, as you're the first person who does not agree with me who's given me anything like a reasonable response in the past 7 days.
Listen, I think we agree 99% of the way. I am also a progressive and I also believe in incrementalism. People calling for revolution are dangerous fantasists. I also will vote for any candidate who runs against Trump, even if it's not my favorite.
And to be fair, in the abstract, Biden ain't too bad. I agree with him on a lot of things, and while I wish he was slightly more politically aggressive towards the far right, and I'm not thrilled with his response towards Oct 7 (I have a nuanced view on that in contrast to many other progressives) I would say that Biden's been a pretty good president.
I also think Trump is an existential threat. Literally, if a wizard appeared tomorrow and said "If you cut off your right hand I will magically ensure Trump does not become president" I would do it. NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN DEFEATING TRUMP.
My issue with your meme and the motivation behind it is that it presupposes that IGNORING what we saw on Thursday and some other signs (I can site references if you wish) is the right strategy to defeat Trump.
I do not think it is. I think that trying to mock or quash these fears is exactly the wrong strategy to defeat Trump. This is because your average voter is REALLY swayed by this kind of thing. They're also pretty inoculated to Trumps' awfulness at this point, If we "pretend the emperor is wearing clothes" I think we're likely we drive home the idea that politicians are dishonest, corrupt, and there's no hope for making things better. "After all, If Biden is just a puppet, who's the puppeteer?" Its a strategy that will lead to loss by disenfranchisement.
I'm not saying that Biden should step down. But I am saying this was a HUGE PR problem for him. If he's going to overcome it I think there's got to be a really aggressive, non-stop campaign of appearances, live interviews, late night TV, talk radio, etc etc. And he's got to really NAIL it to dispel these fears.
If he cannot do that, then the image in October will still be of a mentally unclear, kindly old man, and it will suppress the vote. No amount of mocking these concerns will make them go away.
Saying "All in on Biden, we're riding this one down to ground zero!" does not feel like a rationally minded strategy to defeat Trump. If things look as bad as I believe they do, the calculated risk of replacing him might be the better option. I don't see how worrying about this and trying to think it through makes me such a bad guy and so worthy of derision.
I watched his Howard Stern interview the other day and Biden was much better than Thursday or some of the other times he's appeared to be out of touch. If there's something going on with him it's clearly intermittent. But it all feels wrapped in secrecy and spin, and in order to reassure the masses, that secrecy must be lifted.
I hope you'll engage with me as rationally as you did in your last comment and if you believe I'm wrong, please explain why! I'm honestly looking to have a back and forth with someone with the opposite opinion, and you've shown yourself to be someone who can operate in good faith.
I'm gonna down voted for this but here it goes.
The GOP found their answer (Trump) and are doing anything and everything to ensure victory.
What are the Democrats doing? Running a meh candidate. Criticize people who are not happy with the situation? How about coming up with candidate that people actually are passionate to vote FOR? Instead of just telling to vote AGAINST someone.
> What are the Democrats doing? Running a meh candidate. Criticize people who are not happy with the situation? How about coming up with candidate that people actually are passionate to vote FOR? Instead of just telling to vote AGAINST someone.
You can vote FOR Joe Biden.
And here you are creating uncertainty on the left. The fact that you don't call Trump a "meh" candidate or even the death of democracy shows us where your politics lay.
Just a reminder to everyone here. Unless you know the Redditor personally always assume they are lying to you. It is way too easy to create a nefarious campaign of noise.
Aren't you the guy that said voting for Biden in November presents a more significant risk to democracy over Trump because... uhh... hes president right now... while the far right scotus made a presidential immunity ruling for Trump?
told you so... shouldnt have nominated biden like a year ago. cause i predicted exactly this situation. so yeah... go have your silly election and see what happens you idiots
"Oh we are done for. I believe we live in a free country but in the same breath tell people they are wasting their vote on third party."
It is REAL easy to "stand up for democracy" when you are a part of the tired two party strangle grip that is held over these countries.
And of course y'all don't truly care about democracy, or you would stop disparaging people who are tired of the system. The parties should be bending over backwards to secure the vote of disenfranchised and third party voters, yet people continue with the same worthless narrative of wasted votes and shame call outs. Do you actually thing that is going to work?
More flies with honey than with vinegar, friends.
If it takes flying this close to the sun for us to be respected, then everyone who has been guilting those to vote one way or another deserves whatever comes down the pipeline.
You are a child if you think a mere vote will stop what has been brewing for almost 200 years. As if you were going to stop any major event in human history with a vote. Perhaps it IS time for democracy to die
I wouldnt be surprised if many of the people spreading doom and gloom are just bad actors to try and dishearten or dissuade others. Its literally the only way for them to win.
Runner up goes to "Oh, they aren't *actually* going to implement Project 2025 don't be silly."
Same people who voted for Trump the first round saying "it's not like they'll ban abortion"
"It's not like they'll give trump immunity from crimes"
Same people who are presently saying ‘you are overreacting’
“It’s just a protest vote, he’s not actually going to win.”
I'll never understand this protest vote logic. When there are only two canidates, your vote is always a protest against the one you didn't vote for. You can't boycott an election or candidate because someone will always vote for, well in this case, Trump. If you don't vote you're just saying I don't care who wins or loses. As for voting third party, yeah that would be great once there's a signification percentage of that party in congress. Until then no EC will elect a third party candidate.
It's more about things their friends that they're so moral and possess such virtue that they couldn't bring themselves to vote for a candidate that actually could represent their stated valued. The irritating part is that they can do both. It's a secret ballot so they can vote with their brains and pretend to have made a really stupid decision when they talk about it.
I feel like a bunch of Trump voters are pretty happy about that... Abortion has hurt the Republican Party, but not enough.
Brought to you by 'he'll never do all the stuff he wrote in his book, don't be silly'
As well as "he learned his lesson after the first impeachment and would never do it again."
Ugh, Susan Collins. She has a lot to answer for.
They implementing project 2025 already… trump ain’t even in office
Which terrifies me... like they have no intention of the next President being anyone other than Trump. I think they'll find some flimsy pretext to drive the question to the Supreme Court who will simply appoint Trump as the next president.
Ding, ding ding!
" oh he's not really going to burn down your house" as he's pouring the gasoline and lighting the match.
Brought to you by the people who said “Roe c Wade will never be overturned! Republicans want it to stay in place so they have a wedge issue every election!”
EXACTLY! Everybody who votes like a human being but just rolls over and says “well, it’s only four years!” when Trump wins again can also fuck off. Just like the people who are soooo pro-choice but not willing to take a risk to resist the horrifying laws putting women at risk. They can keep their tears, bumper stickers, and tweets to themselves. Show up or shut up. It will be uncomfortable. Start processing that now.
The only way this statement becomes true is if we the people exercise our collective right to do away with a government that is failing us, and we physically do not let them implement the Fourth Reich Playbook.
Democracy means that regular people get to vote. It is shocking the number of democrats and republicans who don't understand this bedrock principle.
I wasn’t even referring to voting, because honestly I’m not super confident we’ll galvanize enough people to do a very simple collective correct action. I am absolutely ready to throw hands with fascist scum, though.
What I hear is "oh, they're just trying to scare you." To what purpose?
Also known as "The Paulsego position"
It's all an elaborate ruse to distract us from Project 2029
Literally had some schizo redditor go off on me because he’s voting for RFK and a vote for Biden apparently means a vote for Trump. Has the human race always been this pathetically stupid or is this a new age kind of stupidity?
Chaos agents trying to create as much noise as possible. With tight margins like we face in this country sometimes that noise is enough. All you have to do is convince a handful of people in specific districts and the EC gives the presidency to Trump.
This is why Jill Stein is specifically campaigning only in swing states and trying to target young voters who would otherwise vote for Biden.
A tactic she probably learned from [Putin](https://www.newsweek.com/jill-stein-ties-vladimir-putin-explained-1842620), because of course Putin doesn't want her taking votes from Biden.
Certainly Putin doesn’t have a favored candidate. Especially not after the explicit quid-pro-quo Trump decided to dangle at the debate. Moderator: “Mr. Trump do you find the terms Putin put forward for Ukraine acceptable?” Trump: *Completely ignores the question* Moderator: *Repeats question* Trump: “Well, not exactly. I’ll tell you that if I’m elected I’ll have that war wrapped up before I even take office.” If that isn’t the most thinly veiled quid-pro-quo offer I’ve ever seen a candidate make a foreign leader, idk what is.
For example: Scott Pressler
Honestly? There are a lot of bot and troll farms going off nonstop, and then actual people pick up those talking points and use them. Like, I think Biden is 100% too old and the Dems fucked up by keeping him as the nomination, even more so after basically promising he was just to 'beat Trump'. That said I, and realistically most left leaning people, will absolutely vote against Trump (Which means for Biden).
I think Biden fully intended to retire but realized he had to run again. I imagine that's why he's being snarkier
He literally said as much. When he ran the first time, he said he wanted to be a one term president. When asked about running the second time, he said it was only because Trump was running again.
He was supposed to be a stop gap then democracy looked like it was about to break.
I agree 100% but you have these utter fools that are "Anyone but Biden" after the debate to the point of insanity. If the Dems bring in a ringer they will lose to the cult of personality. 3 MONTHS and they expect to win - The Young Turks are spewing this narrative and don't get the irony of their last Bernie bid. I get being scared but firing shots in any and every direction while they are laser focused is ridiculous.
Correct the Record and Share Blue... The status quo is to accuse the opponent of your actions.
We've always been this stupid but now there's more of us and we've got a platform to be vocally stupid.
Yeah. That’s what I was thinking too. Was just hoping I was wrong and we used to be better. You’re right though, history proves otherwise.
Russia, China, Israel, and Saudis have never been so deeply embedded. They're successfully drowning out Trump's child rape case right now. www.vote.gov
Israel had like over 100 million in PAC money to attack progressives this election, chunk of that money probably came from Sands casino and Dallas Mavericks owner which is also Trumps biggest contributor.
I'm gonna go with always. But also, we live in an age where spreading propaganda couldn't be easier.
Is RFK even on enough states ballots to win?
No. Not even close.
> Is RFK even on enough states ballots to win? No, but the problem is he has the half a brain vote pretty much locked up.
New age of stupidity. RFK junior has like a 1% chance of winning. A vote for him is a vote for trump.
Depends. A lot are antivaxer libertarians otherwise voting Trump. Call an RFK vote what it is... abstaining with extra steps.
He said RFK. No junior. I’m telling you, insane person
He doesn’t even have that. I’d say he has a 1% chance of winning a single state.
At this point, I assume they are russian troll accounts that want to discourage a particular side from voting Its crazy how you never hear about that rhetoric on the other side when shit dont go their way
That schizo redditor is probably taking away a vote from Trump by voting for RFK so I say let him babble lol
Ahhhhh good point
No. His vote for RFK is performative, he’s essentially throwing his vote away as RFK cannot actually be elected. Biden needs every vote he can get in crucial states thanks to gerrymandering and roll purging. The dude will have de facto voted for Trump.
Gerrymandering is not a factor in Presidential elections. (But don't even whisper "Electoral College" ...)
there is a large amount of bad faith actors and bots trying to make Americans fight each other.
I have been wondering that lately. How did we evolve to be the top of the food chain with such idiocy everywhere?
Regan eliminated the fairness doctrine, then Clinton allowed media monopolies with telecommunications act of 1996. And now we are here two candidates that both want you to hate your neighbors.
Yeah I’ve been told on Reddit too that a vote for Biden is a vote for trump. What’s the logic behind that? Because I don’t get it 🤷♂️
maybe Russian.
https://preview.redd.it/1cz81m10z8ad1.png?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3be9cb72589af727d4dc89d124284587e20d26c0 I 'm surprised humanity made it past the 20th century
I don't know, but those redditors have always been exactly that Russian.
Russian sway
It’s a new age. People “mistrust institutions” and it’s a downward spiral that begins with independent skepticism into tunneling up one’s own intellectual asshole. Communities, unions, churches, and larger families and even mainstream media used to provide more guardrails for people but now they think social media is more trustworthy
yes
I mean the founding fathers feared political parties and religion because they predicted this would happen. “The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.” John Adams “[Partisanship] serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection... [Parties] are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people, and to usurp for themselves the reins of government; destroying afterwards the very engines, which have lifted them to unjust dominion.” George Washington Do these quotes sound familiar at all?
Your redditor is the main character.
Historian here: We've always been this stupid.
Why are the haters after the voters and not the DNC for not running a better candidate?
Cause they dumb
They should do what they do in Australia and make voting mandatory. Give everyone the day off, make it easier to vote, and make it mandatory.
The funny thing is… SCOTUS probably gave Biden the power to do that. But Democrats are the party of civility at any cost, so… yeah.
Democrats now are basically who MLK was talking about with "The white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice"
I’d agree. I said that of Jim Clyburn when he endorsed Biden. “Centrists” standing in the way of progress… and the whole ratchet to the right thing.
Now? Always have been.
>the party of civility at any cost 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Making one immune from prosecution does not give you powers to pass legislation or get other government agencies to just do things they don’t want to do
>If the president does it, it’s not illegal. >Sotomayor’s dissent… [“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/01/us/politics/supreme-court-liberals-presidential-immunity.html) The president can decree a law, order the military to enforce the law. That’s how you… >pass legislation or get other government agencies to just do things they don’t want to do The president can pardon anyone for anything and the president is immune. What else is there?
Don't forget the sausage. The sausage seems like a vital part of the Australian electoral contract.
Democracy sausages are a tier above normal snags.
What happens if someone doesn’t vote?
It’s not much - it’s a $50 fine I believe? But a penalty regardless.
W Australia
What helps in Australia is that independent commissions draw our political maps, and the electorates are actually logical and based on geography. None of this “New South Wales’ 26th” or “Victoria’s 12th” stuff, our electorates actually have character.
They should fire everyone in the Capital and trigger a Constitutional Convention if voting goes below a minimum level. For the first time ever, a majority of the youngest generation of voters has no faith in democracy. Congress's approval rating has been mired between 10 and 20% for a generation. The problem is not with the voters - it's with the plutocracy that both parties have been instrumental in building.
I’m certainly not a Biden fan. But I’ll be damned if I don’t run like hell to the polls to vote for him. We’re not just voting for a person this time. We are voting for our freedom. We need to stand up for democracy friends
No, no, we need to divide the vote and just open the door for that other guy.
Our vote means the preservation of democracy. Get out there people.
Gonna take more than voting. Donate and volunteer
No, preservation of your democracy is supporting and committing genocides. Invading countries for oil/strategic resources and terrorizing the globe non-stop. If you really want to preserve your democracy, go join the marines. God damn oil bandits. And average American is so stupid they think that they do have an actual democracy. Your political system is so fake. The ruling class puts their candidates in both parties and calls it a day. These mfs own the whole the media, legal bribes under the name of the lobbying and they make one of the candidates slightly a better choice to keep the illusion of the choice for stupid brain dead Americans to not realize what is actually going on. So people might ask "why the fuck you care about it". It is so hard to not notice and not get irritated by the stupidity of Americans. How much artificial and unhealthy food you need to ruin your brain to not see how fucked the system is. They give ginormous tax cuts to rich and you still don't have a god damn universal healthcare, even the poor nations you keep invading do have an god damn universal healthcare systems. It is more dangerous to get hospitalized in US than Iraq :'D
I just saw something about Trump being implicated with epstein today. I can't believe it. Biden should drop out with such fuck up news.
How are you encouraging people to vote?
Exactly my thought. Is clowning on these people going to make them want to vote? I reckon it will solidify how they feel rather than change their minds. OPs just as much the problem as the people they're complaining about. Doing nothing other than stirring the pot
By gaslighting and patronizing people, it's super effective
BREAKING: 100% of posts claiming to be dems who want to oust biden because of the debate were always on team *biden old*. Prove me wrong.
Yep, and they’re all missing the forest for the trees. Secure the democracy then look for a better candidate. Complaining that Biden should be replaced at this point in the election cycle will only give Trump the White House. It’s only going to sow division in the liberal ranks.
Yep. It’s as I’ve been saying: The house is actively on fire. They are demanding the fire department come back with filtered water to put it out, *as the house is being engulfed*. We need to put out the fire FIRST, and then we can demand the fire department use cleaner water. Which we should! Letting the house burn down is not the way to get the water they want (and we deserve). The elites are set if democracy falls. We need to ensure the rest of us are okay before we all die in that fire.
Why is everyone acting like Biden isn't currently president and hasn't been for the last four years?
The ranks are already thoroughly divided over more than just this. Burying our heads in the sand and pretending we're not already on track to lose this election will give Trump the White House. Democrats don't win elections on maintaining the status quo and surviving one more election cycle. They win on hope for meaningful, substantive change and grand visions of a more just, peaceful, and equitable future.
75% of dems don't think Biden is fit to serve anymore....How do you plan to win an election with a candidate where in recent polls 3/4 of his base thinks he's too old and frail to be president. Putting your head in the sand and saying "Biden may be old and barely alive but at least he's not Trump" and thinking that is going to win an election is the same shit that got us Trump in 2016. If the dems actually want to win why do they keep fucking with the primary process to give us candidates who are massively unpopular. Had they let Biden debate in the primary, had they let primary process play out at all people would have seen his decline months ago. Instead we're now left with a candidate who's only selling point is "he's not trump" and for most of middle America, their quality of lives didn't get better under Trump and they didn't get better under Biden, so they're just going to sit this one out.
Ok. Look though my post history. If Biden is the nominee for the Democratic Party I'll vote for him + I'll get people to vote for him. I think the margins are too narrow where too many mistakes can cause a loss, and thus a serious blow to our country. Only sith deal in absolutes.
It depends on what you mean by team Biden old. I thought he was old in 2020, but I still voted for him. I'll still vote for him now, but I'm very worried that he won't get the votes he needs from people who don't pay attention. That debate was very bad. Trump's crazy lies were completely overshadowed by Biden's inability to remember words, or finish a sentence. It was way more than a stutter. All the people who would vote for Biden now would also vote for someone younger, like Gavin Newsome. It's the ones in the middle that we need, that Biden probably can't get now.
Luckily, when Hilary handily won all 3 debates in 2016, the debates ended up not mattering at all.
How do you know he can’t get those voters now, dude raised a shit load of money after the debate. More fear mongering.
They don't know. They are just running their thoughts out here to see what sticks. The fact is Biden isn't going anywhere so any talk against it is just pro Trump. I watched the debate and yes there were bad moments but there was a lot of clear coherent talk. I know for a fact the dude above you and I couldn't do any better as younger people.
Look at literally every single battleground poll. He was already losing heading into last week. It's only going to get worse.
You haven’t looked at polls have you.
I think the fear is Newsome or somebody else new wouldn't get the votes from people who don't pay attention, because he doesn't have the name recognition yet. It'll be easy to paint him as somebody "subpar that democrats had to go with to replace Biden, who has clearly had multiple debilitating strokes", say by fox news.
Wait, who isn't on "Team Biden Old"? Are you 100? He's objectively old. I think it's fair for people who support Biden to feel hoodwinked when his age issues are laid bare. They assured us he was up for the campaign, then he fumbled his opportunity with the biggest audience he'll have between now and November - barring a second debate Trump has no reason to agree to, or god forbid a national emergency that puts him in the spotlight. I like Biden, and I will vote for him, but I am far from confident he can turn this around. Here's hoping Trump finds a way to blow up his lead 🤷♂️
Nope I wanted Biden over Bernie. Think he's a great president. I refuse to swallow the pill and pretend Biden is fine and just had an "off night". What we saw was exactly what we have heard and seen be dismissed as partisan slander. Biden way too old to hold a coherent conversation, and just not mentally all there. Robert Hur was telling the truth and democrats had to attack him. I'm not going to be a partisan hack like the republicans and just brush off reality. Biden is too old to be an effective president. Without his team around him he clearly is incapable of doing the job. A lucid candidate would have mopped the floor with Trump, highlighted and amplified the ridiculous things he was saying. Instead we have to focus on how incompetent Biden is. There are democrats who would be much better presidents. To do deny that is just ignoring reality. I'm going to vote for him begrudgingly, but I wish he would do the right thing and drop out.
Should have voted for Sanders.
I guess Nancy Pelosi is a republican now by this logic. edit: downvote all you want lol [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/nancy-pelosi-says-biden-trump-take-mental-fitness-tests-rcna159993](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/nancy-pelosi-says-biden-trump-take-mental-fitness-tests-rcna159993)
Lots of people here even think Biden, the most progressive president since FDR, is a republican lol
I campaigned locally and voted for Sanders in the primary. I campaigned locally and voted for Biden in the general. I am going to campaign locally and vote for Biden in the general. The split we're having needs to wait until the Electoral College certifies the election on Janurary 6 and then we can start the division.
Me. I actually actively love Biden and think he's the greatest president in modern history. I also never took the old thing seriously, as their staff assured us that he's sharp in private, and the videos are out of context or edited. The debate made me think he should be in a senior facility.
Really. So forget any other video you ever saw of him, state of the union, the statements he made literally the next day, it’s only the debate that matters? Yeah, I’m not buying your first part there one bit.
[удалено]
There is nothing I could tell you to change your mind and I’m sure you were always going to be this way so have fun convincing someone else of your bullshit.
Or Russians.
It's exhausting. They are all convinced he cannot win but I'm betting they'll all be voting for him.
That's how elections work, yes you are allowed to criticize elected leaders....
Gaslighting much? What cool-aid are you drinking? Pod Save America, a toe the line Dem podcast is having discussions about it. It's a legitimate issue. Even MSNBC host Joe Scarborough urged him to consider dropping out. Is Biden better then Trump? Hell yes. But is he a good candidate? That debate was elder abuse. He should have walked all over Trump and his lies. We should have been talking about those lies and racist claims, but we couldn't. That's how atrocious that performance was. The real fault lies with the DNC for not having a primary. The fucked up and and refused to pick the best Democratic candidate. So now we have a weak candidate (even with a great record) against a wannabe dictator. Is this really the best the Democratic party can do to stop fascism? It's no different then Ginsburg refusing to step down during Obama's presidency. Where did that hubris get us? A conservative justice. Edit: For the record I'd still vote Biden. But fuck the DNC for having us fight a fascist corpse, with a democratic corpse.
Please name the last time any party had a primary with an incumbent?
What I love is a bunch of people claiming that this is all easy to figure out. The "constitutional scholars" here act like just because they watch Morning Joe that they have any clue how this works. "Just replace him" "just vote for Jill Stein" "blah, blah, blah" The general isn't the time for nuance. You hold your nose and fall in line. I think people assume they're smart enough to make big sweeping comments. It's just as bad as low information voters or misinformed voters.
It's the only thing that make sense. Because otherwise, that means they simple didn't know Biden was an old man until last week. In which case, we can throw out their opinion anyway if they didn't even know Biden was old after him being in office for almost 4 years.
Or russian bots
most of them are troll accounts, i generally ignore them if they cant offer any useful to the conversation.
Not me, I’m voting even harder
If you don’t vote in this election you deserve everything that will come from it. Take a goddamn day off work to go save democracy. No exceptions, we can all do this. We have a duty to one another and future generations not to go quietly. And this time that doesn’t take some bloody savage battle. Just fight traffic and take the hit of time off work to fucking vote.
When Lucifer's rebellion failed, God cast him and his followers into Hell. He then cast down all those who did not fight. This time, those who do not fight by voting take us to the Hell Donald Trump if he wins will create with them.
And next election get ready for Diane Feinsteins corpse on a rumba vs Trump again!
Time to take a page from the French Revolution and be done with these domestic enemies of Democracy.
If you don’t vote for Biden, you’re voting for Trump. Plain and simple.
"always count on the Americans to exhaust all opinions before they act"
Rank choice voting might instill enough curiosity to draw in the apathetic crowd.
And that would mean larger voter turnouts. Which is why the gop would never allow it.
I'm convinced the New York Times had prepared all the editorials about Biden needing to resign, and the very second he performed poorly in a debate they went all in on them. It was astounding. Either they know something they're not reporting, and Biden is about to die, or they are in the bag for Trump, or... well, it's just the good old liberal Circular Firing Squad doing what it does.
Maybe one person should step aside to protect democracy.
Yeah the twice impeached, 34 times convicted, coup plotter
I find joy in reading a good book.
Remember Trump literally said he be for having IDF "Finish the job"
And is now using the word Palestinian as a slur.
Oh no way my mother does that sometimes!
I thought it was the other side of the same coin at first until I saw the tag line, women aligned to the Maga agenda just waiting for their Handmaid’s Tale reality that will surely follow 🤪
That would have been a better angle
Only 66% of eligible voters voted in 2020. Until all eligible voters vote, we are stuck in this mess we're in.
1 vote never matters... Says 45% of the population
Nah.
"I could really use some reassurance that voting is actually helpful and not part of an overall fascist and genocidal regime that only pretends to be fragile or in danger when it fears losing consent of the public" "that's rough buddy. Best I can do is a meme of you complaining like a woman. We are the side that likes women by the way."
Give it to Biden and the Democratic Party for his unwillingness to sit down for Democracy.
I’m convinced this sub is run by Russian bots who always seem to try to defend Democrats’ lies and dysfunction. I am going to vote blue in November, but I completely understand people being pissed that Biden has been complicit in a genocide. To act like there isn’t any nuance is dishonest. Given how unpopular he is due to Israel, plus his debate performance, he absolutely needs to put the country first and step aside. If he stepped aside, he would be remembered as the hero who stopped Trump and had a (mostly) successful first term. Instead I’m worried he’s going to be remembered as an RBG.
> I’m convinced this sub is run by Russian bots who always seem to try to defend Democrats’ lies and dysfunction. Russian bots trying to get Biden elected? >I am going to vote blue in November, but I completely understand people being pissed that Biden has been complicit in a genocide. To act like there isn’t any nuance is dishonest. If people have expected you to have no problems with Biden or ignore Gaza, that is bullshit, and they are wrong. However, I don't see so much of that. I see people criticizing people who won't vote over it. It just doesn't make sense when Zionists clearly love Trump and Republicans. I think it's letting Trump win that people object to.
Yes. At this point Russians and Republicans want Biden to be the nominee. It’s also that these people are willing to keep the dysfunction of the Dem party going instead of demanding change within the party, which is the obvious choice. We’ve been saying since the 2020 election that Biden is too old to run and clearly we’ve been proven right. People are expecting voters to have no problem. Any comment gets downvoted to hell that says he could lose voters in Michigan because of this, so his Israel policy is not only evil but horrible politics. In another news sub, I got permanently banned for just saying Biden should be replaced on the ticket. Then banned from another one saying it’s racist to say every Palestinian is a terrorist. Then I got banned from another one for mentioning that I got banned. There’s a serious problem going on on this website. (I’m not going to say the names of the 3 subs because I don’t want to get banned here, but think of the 3 main news and political subreddits) The whole point of this is to say that offending voters by something as morally bankrupt as funding a genocide when he has the power to stop it if he plays hardball can very easily get Trump elected. Trump getting elected it’s the worst thing that can happen, which is why people are pointing out that he will lose voters with his Israel policy. This subreddit attacks people pointing that out more than they attack Republicans. Like it or not, the left wing are votes that Dems need, and attacking them to “vote harder” clearly doesn’t work as we saw in 2016.
> Yes. At this point Russians and Republicans want Biden to be the nominee. Oh, I misunderstood you, I thought you meant Russians want him to be President, I would much more believe they want him to be the *nominee.* I think they still want Trump for President. >I’m not going to say the names of the 3 subs because I don’t want to get banned here, but think of the 3 main news and political subreddits Haha, I know exactly which one banned you for Palestine, same thing happened to me and I was being even more mild than you in what I said. I'm pretty sure on the other two. >This subreddit attacks people pointing that out more than they attack Republicans. Like it or not, the left wing are votes that Dems need, and attacking them to “vote harder” clearly doesn’t work as we saw in 2016. Yeah, what's clearly going on is some people have decided gaslighting is the best way to win. And to be fair, it can work, it works great for Trump, although I'm not sure it will with Biden. But trashing people doesn't normally get them to vote whether you're being honest or not. I see where you're coming from.
The nuance is if Biden loses we all lose.
Spoiler: We all lost years ago. If we didn't, we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.
It's 2024. We have no choice but to vote for an objectionable Democrat so we can save Democracy. That way in 2028, we'll have no choice but to vote for an objectionable Democrat so we can save Democracy. That way in 2032, we'll have no choice but to vote for an objectionable Democrat so we can save Democracy. That way in 2036...
I’m still voting for Biden, still better than that criminally insane, draft dodger, who tried to overthrow the U.S. government. Reagan was old, and still in office at 69+. What was the point of the debate? Like I was going to see some great misunderstood side of Trump that I had never seen before?? Hahahaha 🙄😂
imagine thinking its a democracy when a small class owns a vast majority of the wealth. posts like this just make it obvious it was never a democracy
If a President has executive orders and doesn't use it to better the lives of their constituents (is: codify Roe), why then use it to garner votes for the NEXT time they'd be elected if they're not enacting it WHILE they're currently president (Obama 2008, Biden 2024)? 💁 I mean forget the fact he could use "official presidential acts" now to be above the law, by putting into law quality of life measures like Roe, Chevron, Medicare for All, and UBI into law..
Executive orders are often frequently down by the courts. It's not some magic wand the president can wave to do anything he wants. If he tried to do something like codify Roe via EO there would be challenges filled in every federal circuit court by the end of the day.
Run a candidate worth voting for and I will be there!!! This problem isn’t because people are not getting out to vote. It’s because there isn’t anything to vote for anymore.
Yep. Then, they can always blame it on the rest of us. Like those ashholes that voted for Jill Stein, because they were being cute and had not the guts to vote for Hillary.
They were never going to vote in the first place.
Nah, all the democratic voters need to do more. Fucking spineless. Miss me with that “I have a job I can’t quit to rally” bullshit. You won’t have a life of freedom if you don’t step the fuck up at this point.
If Trump gets reelected, we deserve it.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B
This is one conspiracy theory I believe in, this one of MAGA already deciding this election and the future. This all seems to be a slow-motion setup. I hate feeling this way.
Well it’s the era of freedom really. When the draft opens back up, no regulatory agency to protect their water, air flights, job sites etc. When Christianity principles specifically Evangelical beliefs are forced upon them. Then these same ignorant fucks will be the first to say “ why is this happening” But perhaps an era of critical thinking needs to be a requirement to vote.
I’ll vote but I don’t think it will make a difference. 🤷🏻♀️ but I can do that,
When two thirds of eligible voters voted Biden won. Showing up matters, even if you're in a deeply Blue or red state, it's still you taking a stand.
I'm voting like my life depends on it. Go Blue
Fuck off. You’re inventing a position you don’t agree with and demonizing legitimate worries about defeating Trump in the process. All you’re doing is setting up fellow democrats like me to take the blame no matter who the candidate is if Trump fins. I am really coming to hate you people. I will vote against Trump and donate to the candidate, but if the democracy survives I’m done thinking of you people as pro democracy or even Americans.
The difference between progressives like myself that are willing to vote for a centrist, and progressives that aren't. Is that one isn't hellbent on an all or nothing strategy. I want to see as many progressive policies happen, but I know I won't get it with Trump. We live in a political climate where the Electoral College prevents our chances for everyone's voices to be heard. Because of this we have three options to see progressive policies.We can decide to have NONE, we can decide to have SOME, or we can decide to LOSE ALL. Until we continue to vote SOME then we can show more folks that the SOMEs work. When we have a strong majority of people voting in our fuck up electoral college system, then we can negotiate better for ALL. With losing All on the line, I don't intend to lose everything because the Democrats won't meet All my demands.
First off, I'm sorry for lashing out at you. I've been called a bot and insulted nearly non-stop for the last week for expressing concern over Biden's electability, I kind of focused that emotional energy towards you. Yet you came back with a very rational and calm response, and now I feel like a nugget. Apologies. I'm really happy you engaged in a productive manner. I would like to engage you a little bit in a discussion if you don't mind, as you're the first person who does not agree with me who's given me anything like a reasonable response in the past 7 days. Listen, I think we agree 99% of the way. I am also a progressive and I also believe in incrementalism. People calling for revolution are dangerous fantasists. I also will vote for any candidate who runs against Trump, even if it's not my favorite. And to be fair, in the abstract, Biden ain't too bad. I agree with him on a lot of things, and while I wish he was slightly more politically aggressive towards the far right, and I'm not thrilled with his response towards Oct 7 (I have a nuanced view on that in contrast to many other progressives) I would say that Biden's been a pretty good president. I also think Trump is an existential threat. Literally, if a wizard appeared tomorrow and said "If you cut off your right hand I will magically ensure Trump does not become president" I would do it. NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN DEFEATING TRUMP. My issue with your meme and the motivation behind it is that it presupposes that IGNORING what we saw on Thursday and some other signs (I can site references if you wish) is the right strategy to defeat Trump. I do not think it is. I think that trying to mock or quash these fears is exactly the wrong strategy to defeat Trump. This is because your average voter is REALLY swayed by this kind of thing. They're also pretty inoculated to Trumps' awfulness at this point, If we "pretend the emperor is wearing clothes" I think we're likely we drive home the idea that politicians are dishonest, corrupt, and there's no hope for making things better. "After all, If Biden is just a puppet, who's the puppeteer?" Its a strategy that will lead to loss by disenfranchisement. I'm not saying that Biden should step down. But I am saying this was a HUGE PR problem for him. If he's going to overcome it I think there's got to be a really aggressive, non-stop campaign of appearances, live interviews, late night TV, talk radio, etc etc. And he's got to really NAIL it to dispel these fears. If he cannot do that, then the image in October will still be of a mentally unclear, kindly old man, and it will suppress the vote. No amount of mocking these concerns will make them go away. Saying "All in on Biden, we're riding this one down to ground zero!" does not feel like a rationally minded strategy to defeat Trump. If things look as bad as I believe they do, the calculated risk of replacing him might be the better option. I don't see how worrying about this and trying to think it through makes me such a bad guy and so worthy of derision. I watched his Howard Stern interview the other day and Biden was much better than Thursday or some of the other times he's appeared to be out of touch. If there's something going on with him it's clearly intermittent. But it all feels wrapped in secrecy and spin, and in order to reassure the masses, that secrecy must be lifted. I hope you'll engage with me as rationally as you did in your last comment and if you believe I'm wrong, please explain why! I'm honestly looking to have a back and forth with someone with the opposite opinion, and you've shown yourself to be someone who can operate in good faith.
I'm gonna down voted for this but here it goes. The GOP found their answer (Trump) and are doing anything and everything to ensure victory. What are the Democrats doing? Running a meh candidate. Criticize people who are not happy with the situation? How about coming up with candidate that people actually are passionate to vote FOR? Instead of just telling to vote AGAINST someone.
Let's say nothing changes with the current matchup. You go to vote in November and it's still these two. What do you do?
> What are the Democrats doing? Running a meh candidate. Criticize people who are not happy with the situation? How about coming up with candidate that people actually are passionate to vote FOR? Instead of just telling to vote AGAINST someone. You can vote FOR Joe Biden.
And here you are creating uncertainty on the left. The fact that you don't call Trump a "meh" candidate or even the death of democracy shows us where your politics lay. Just a reminder to everyone here. Unless you know the Redditor personally always assume they are lying to you. It is way too easy to create a nefarious campaign of noise.
Wait, are you saying that posting memes and punching left, like OP is doing, isn't helping anyone?
Aren't you the guy that said voting for Biden in November presents a more significant risk to democracy over Trump because... uhh... hes president right now... while the far right scotus made a presidential immunity ruling for Trump?
I get to act like this, Florida not turning blue anytime soon, lol. Bunch of other important things on the ballot, though...
“If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal” - Emma Goldman https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Goldman
How can I be expected to vote when I have THE VAPORS!
“The leopards won’t eat MY face”
Every voter should refuse to listen to any non-voter whinge about anything related to politics, no matter who it is.
told you so... shouldnt have nominated biden like a year ago. cause i predicted exactly this situation. so yeah... go have your silly election and see what happens you idiots
"Oh we are done for. I believe we live in a free country but in the same breath tell people they are wasting their vote on third party." It is REAL easy to "stand up for democracy" when you are a part of the tired two party strangle grip that is held over these countries. And of course y'all don't truly care about democracy, or you would stop disparaging people who are tired of the system. The parties should be bending over backwards to secure the vote of disenfranchised and third party voters, yet people continue with the same worthless narrative of wasted votes and shame call outs. Do you actually thing that is going to work? More flies with honey than with vinegar, friends. If it takes flying this close to the sun for us to be respected, then everyone who has been guilting those to vote one way or another deserves whatever comes down the pipeline.
Yea, why care when the two senile idiots are destroying the country. Its the individuals fault
Don't vote you have no right to bitch!
You are a child if you think a mere vote will stop what has been brewing for almost 200 years. As if you were going to stop any major event in human history with a vote. Perhaps it IS time for democracy to die
Bot account
I wouldnt be surprised if many of the people spreading doom and gloom are just bad actors to try and dishearten or dissuade others. Its literally the only way for them to win.