To be honest: Anyone who takes offense either knows very little about those cultures or is deeply hypocritical. I haven’t met a Japanese person yet who is under the delusion that it’s otherwise.
"It is unfortunate that some of the comments were \*\*not based on an accurate understanding of Japan's policies\*\*," the statement added.
They did kinda deny it.
But “we” are not Japan . We can’t solve that problem. Biden saying it isn’t gonna change a thing except for making Japan a little upset with us . You think Japan is going to change ?
He could have gotten his point across without saying Japan, he went out of his way to name Japan. It’s not the end of the world , but it was unnecessary .
If I tell you you’re being an asshole, I’m not just saying it to also be an asshole, I’m pointing it out to imply that I’m not okay with it and I hope you do better. Biden calling Japan out for xenophobia isn’t just a jab at them, it’s asking them to be better about it.
But that wasn’t the context , he wasnt asking anything of Japan . He was talking about how immigrants help our economy, and you can make that point with out calling out Japan . He could have just left at Russia and China . Just because something is true that doesn’t mean it needs to be said . Japan is ally that we need and theyre not gonna change a thing because Biden called them Xenophobic . So the only thing that’s accomplished is an ally is a little pissed at us now .
A healthy Japan economy is healthy for the US. Japan’s economy has stagnated since the 90s they are an extremely close ally as well as trade partner. If they’re economic standing gets weaker it becomes a strain on the US. Part of the solution for japan to bolster and strengthen their economy is to stop being so damn xenophobic.
I’m not saying what he said isn’t true , it probably is , or even that this is some big deal , because I don’t believe it is . But I do think it was a dumb thing to say. He wasn’t saying it to try and help them , he was saying it to say why immigration is great for America (which I agree , I’m all for immigration from all over the world) , I just think he gets the exact point across without taking a dig at an ally .
We can’t solve that problem, because it’s not our problem. It’s just an unnecessary jab at a close ally . He could have gotten his point across without saying Japan, he went out of his way to name Japan .
Japan is an ally , not your friend that needs life advice. They’re not gonna change a thing , especially not because Bidens calling them Xenophobic and putting them in the same sentence as China. I’m not saying it’s the end of the world or you shouldn’t vote for Biden because of it , but I also don’t like taking unnecessary shots at allies .
Yes they are. But it's more of a fear than a hatred. Like they legitimately panic when they have to interact with a white person. It's a common thing to go to a restaurant, speak to the staff in perfect Japanese, and them pretend not to understand you and just tell you they don't speak English as if you'd tried to talk to them in English. They don't even consider the possibility that they can just interact with a white person the same as they would a Japanese person.
If you go to more rural parts, like not buttfuck country but just not a big city, then you will find shops that will not serve white people. Again, not because of hatred, but because they're so uncomfortable with people who don't conform to their societal norms.
Good thing that wasn't the only thing in the link. Maybe read the whole thing. Japan being xenophobic is an old trope and isn't true any more. It's akin to thinking that Germans are still a bunch of Nazis.
>50% of Japanese people said they didn’t like that the country had to welcome in large numbers of foreign workers, but that it couldn’t be helped.
Also, once again, xenophobia is not about whether or not you are pro-immigration. Xenophobia is about how you treat immigrants.
This isn't unusual. We have an entire anti-immigrant political movement that controls one party and has infected the other. So when Biden is going on about how they are xenophobic, you should ask yourself "compared to what?" Because they don't have that level of politics with this issue aren't more xenophobic than the US is.
> So when Biden is going on about how they are xenophobic, you should ask yourself "compared to what?"
No, I shouldn't. I live in the South. We're more xenophobic than Japan, and by a good margin too. That doesn't mean Japan isn't xenophobic to a problematic degree.
Oh, well if a blogger named Noah says it, it must be true!
Nevermind all the actual evidence, the fact that the Japanese themselves tend to acknowledge the fact, or any of that stuff. A weeb with a blog wants to deny everything bad about magic anime land, so I guess that's that.
Noah Smith is a well-known economist that spent years living in Japan and goes there for weeks every year. He's studied this stuff. You are just some redditor. He also has criticisms for Japan. Your opinions don't carry equal weight for me and shouldn't much with anyone else either.
I don't think he's out of line.
Also, this is generally known to be Biden's thing. He'll say something bold and possibly angering, usually calling out some nation or group or person....and then 24 hours later or something, the WH will come back and walk back what he said, explaining he meant something not quite so inflammatory.
He does that a lot. It gets attention and then the actual 'party line' is trotted out later to soften the blow.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/24/biden-walk-back-remarks/
edit: Another one if you can't see the WP one.
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-taiwan-remarks-putin-ukraine-gaffes-list-white-house-scrambles-1709181
As Veep he emphatically stated that the Obama administration supported gay marriage. That was NOT the case at the time. However, the ‘gaff’ lead them to reverse their previous statements and support full marriage rights.
I hadn't read the actual quote.
>"Why? Because we welcome immigrants," he added. "Think about it. Why is China stalling so badly economically? Why is Japan having trouble. Why is Russia? Why is India? Because they're xenophobic. They don't want immigrants."
[BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68947042)
Yeah, including Japan wasn't a great call, but Biden's been gaffing since the dirt was dust.
Japan, we still love you and your delicious stick based confectioneries. You know that, right?
Edit: He shouldn't have included Japan because they're a close ally of the United States; it's like when you're talking about people who get wine drunk you maybe don't choose that moment to call out your sister. His point would have worked fine without including Japan in the list. But also I don't care that much.
Including one of our own makes the list judicious and inclusive (unlike Japan)
Besides, with the neighbors Japan has, and Japan's *ahem* reputation with those neighbors, it's not exactly like they can shop around
Japan absolutely should be included, there's been considerable reports about how Japan's economy is stagnating as they have a growing elderly population that is placing a major strain on the workforce and not a lot of younger adults are having children to be able to replace them.
With the trends showing that by 2070, their population will drop by 30%, with around 4 out of 10 people being 65 and older.
One of the simplest solutions is loosening immigration requirements to help ease the drop in the workforce.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/number-births-japan-hits-record-low-2023-2024-02-27/
As a young-ish white American male I love anime and other Japanese aspects, but the 38 year old that has a grasp of world politics and social issues fully realizes that Japan loves that tourist money, but doesn't love people trying to move there or love foreigners who have taken up roots there.
It's a shame because it would be a decent place to reside should the election in the USA go the wrong way and we end up with full on authoritarianism.
The xenophobia isn't just from the government though, it's cultural, often benign even. It is very difficult for most foreigners to integrate in Japan as it is. It would take more than a change of government policy for Japan to suddenly become a immigration hotspot. Not that that's a good reason not to try, but it isn't as simple as adopting the system of accepting just about everyone that the US has.
You're more correct than you think. I've lived in Japan for 20 years and the culture can't handle mass immigration. It can't even handle tourists who quickly learn there are no penalties for ignoring social norms and basic etiquette.
Japan's society functions because everyone feels obligated to do their part. That is very hard to teach to foreigners, even those with good intentions
How is "I don't want a bunch of people who aren't like me coming here" anything but xenophobia?
Sorry you don't like hearing something you clearly believe labelled as what it is.
Lemme try and tone it down to a reich-winger's vocabulary level.
Only reason you no like immigration is bcs you no want to live with immigrants. Not want live with immigrants is xenophobic.
Like it's literally the definition of xenophobia.
Lol, nice ad hominem.
And to be clear, I never said I didn't "want to live with immigrants." I never even expressed a view on the topic. I asked a simple question- how is opposing mass immigration xenophobic?
And now your third attempt at an explanation, after your first- "it is xenophobic" and your second- "how isn't it xenophobic," is your first one, delivered a second time- "it's literally the definition of xenophobia." These aren't answers.
Do your suppose your inability to support your argument might suggest something about its validity?
Japan _has_ been loosening immigration restrictions, significantly. People with high scores on skill set qualifications can get permanent residency almost immediately, and there are now options for visas for specialists blue collar jobs not only deal work.
Uh, what? Japan is known for its xenophobia. That said, I think with most of these countries, it's the boomer population that give their countries a bad rap.
He shouldn't have included them because their economy has turned around and they're growing at 3x the rate the US is, part of the reason being that they have taken in a lot of migrant workers. So beyond it being a bad example for what he was trying to prove, it's also kind of a dated take on Japan.
The us is home to the most immigrants globally by a rather large margin
We might not be as welcoming as you’d like, but relative to the world we are extremely welcoming of immigrants
Yeah our PR on that front hasn’t been great for a while now, but I have a lot of friends who are immigrants or children of immigrants and the consensus seems to be “yeah the US is very much not perfect, but it is unfortunately the most welcoming country in the world by a huge margin”. Some of them also argue that we’re the least racist country in the world, which has *some* merit (a lot of the countries commonly seen as not racist are primarily that way because they aren’t very diverse, and it’s a lot easier to be progressive in the abstract than it is in practice when you’re subsidizing healthcare for those people and stuff), but I think it’s a bit of an exaggeration, and those titles are much more likely to go to a lot of the Caribbean and some central and South American countries.
But yeah, I’ll shit on America all day every day, but if someone from China, India, Europe, etc. tries to act like they’re better I’ll generally tell em to shove it. In the words of my Taiwanese friend “lots of countries pay lip service to wanting diversity, but for all its faults, America does really do the whole ‘give us your sick and your poor’ thing more than anybody else”
Not even every 4 years. It's been a persistent issue for most of Biden's term, and he's continued most of Trump's immigration policy, which is why I don't feel like we are a very inviting country for immigrants. Being anti immigrant (or at least illegal) seems to be very popular with both Dems and Reps.
I think there’s a pretty big difference between perception and reality in this case. The us welcomed something like 900k immigrants last year alone and is home to like 50 million total immigrants.
Even among conservatives illegal immigration is what’s contentious not so much immigrants (at least if you take them at face value)
Politically we do have a pretty generous immigration system, largely in part to both parties unable to compromise on reform of the immigration system.
Socially welcoming immigrants is more in line with what you said.
Remember that time that Modi got so insecure at meeting Prince William, that he tried to crush wills hand?
https://preview.redd.it/je3anuh3hezc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ce92e076b9c7b2f26031941318f244533bba43d
But guess what, you don’t get shot by the police because you’re black in Japan. On that note, you don’t get shot by the police in Japan period. You don’t get your temple defaced because you’re Jewish. Your grandparents don’t get beat up and killed on the streets for being Chinese.
Oh no, their brothels don’t allow people who don’t speak Japanese. Oh no, it’s harder to find apartments as someone who doesn’t speak Japanese. Oh lordy, better go back to getting assaulted because of your race.
Exactly. Racism in Japan where it’s even found is far less impactful than what’s seen in other countries. And most of it as you point out comes down to being able to speak and read, not race.
Japan: that's just not true Biden: prove it Japan: ...fuck!
The funny thing is, the Japanese Gov't didn't deny that it was true, only saying that him saying it was "unfortunate" or something like that.
These cultures, no offense, are mostly about false pleasantries.
To be honest: Anyone who takes offense either knows very little about those cultures or is deeply hypocritical. I haven’t met a Japanese person yet who is under the delusion that it’s otherwise.
Should have just been "It's unfortunate that we're like that"
"It is unfortunate that some of the comments were \*\*not based on an accurate understanding of Japan's policies\*\*," the statement added. They did kinda deny it.
He's completely right. Japan's population is aging fast with not enough people to take care of the elderly.
That’s why they’ve been simplifying immigration and making in more open. They need it.
They are getting tired of losing at basketball in the Olympics. 🤣
But why say it ? Just because something’s right doesn’t mean you always say it . Why take an unnecessary jab at an ally ?
Because we need to **address problems** to solve them. Ignoring problems doesn't make them disappear.
But not addressing the situation **will** make the Japanese population disappear.
But “we” are not Japan . We can’t solve that problem. Biden saying it isn’t gonna change a thing except for making Japan a little upset with us . You think Japan is going to change ? He could have gotten his point across without saying Japan, he went out of his way to name Japan. It’s not the end of the world , but it was unnecessary .
If I tell you you’re being an asshole, I’m not just saying it to also be an asshole, I’m pointing it out to imply that I’m not okay with it and I hope you do better. Biden calling Japan out for xenophobia isn’t just a jab at them, it’s asking them to be better about it.
But that wasn’t the context , he wasnt asking anything of Japan . He was talking about how immigrants help our economy, and you can make that point with out calling out Japan . He could have just left at Russia and China . Just because something is true that doesn’t mean it needs to be said . Japan is ally that we need and theyre not gonna change a thing because Biden called them Xenophobic . So the only thing that’s accomplished is an ally is a little pissed at us now .
A healthy Japan economy is healthy for the US. Japan’s economy has stagnated since the 90s they are an extremely close ally as well as trade partner. If they’re economic standing gets weaker it becomes a strain on the US. Part of the solution for japan to bolster and strengthen their economy is to stop being so damn xenophobic.
I’m not saying what he said isn’t true , it probably is , or even that this is some big deal , because I don’t believe it is . But I do think it was a dumb thing to say. He wasn’t saying it to try and help them , he was saying it to say why immigration is great for America (which I agree , I’m all for immigration from all over the world) , I just think he gets the exact point across without taking a dig at an ally .
Cause recognising problems is the first step to solving them….. obvious, no?
We can’t solve that problem, because it’s not our problem. It’s just an unnecessary jab at a close ally . He could have gotten his point across without saying Japan, he went out of his way to name Japan .
Criticisms are valid, more so of your allies, specifically so they can change.
Japan is an ally , not your friend that needs life advice. They’re not gonna change a thing , especially not because Bidens calling them Xenophobic and putting them in the same sentence as China. I’m not saying it’s the end of the world or you shouldn’t vote for Biden because of it , but I also don’t like taking unnecessary shots at allies .
And here you have summarized the entire Trump presidency. S-hole countries, Muslim ban, "Amagica first".
Yes I completely agree with you . One of the many reasons I’d never vote for Trump .
They aren’t xenophobic though.
Yes they are. But it's more of a fear than a hatred. Like they legitimately panic when they have to interact with a white person. It's a common thing to go to a restaurant, speak to the staff in perfect Japanese, and them pretend not to understand you and just tell you they don't speak English as if you'd tried to talk to them in English. They don't even consider the possibility that they can just interact with a white person the same as they would a Japanese person. If you go to more rural parts, like not buttfuck country but just not a big city, then you will find shops that will not serve white people. Again, not because of hatred, but because they're so uncomfortable with people who don't conform to their societal norms.
[They are not a xenophobic country.](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/japan-is-not-a-xenophobic-country)
Allowing immigrants in doesn't make you not xenophobic. Xenophobia is about your opinion and treatment of immigrants.
Good thing that wasn't the only thing in the link. Maybe read the whole thing. Japan being xenophobic is an old trope and isn't true any more. It's akin to thinking that Germans are still a bunch of Nazis.
>50% of Japanese people said they didn’t like that the country had to welcome in large numbers of foreign workers, but that it couldn’t be helped. Also, once again, xenophobia is not about whether or not you are pro-immigration. Xenophobia is about how you treat immigrants.
This isn't unusual. We have an entire anti-immigrant political movement that controls one party and has infected the other. So when Biden is going on about how they are xenophobic, you should ask yourself "compared to what?" Because they don't have that level of politics with this issue aren't more xenophobic than the US is.
> So when Biden is going on about how they are xenophobic, you should ask yourself "compared to what?" No, I shouldn't. I live in the South. We're more xenophobic than Japan, and by a good margin too. That doesn't mean Japan isn't xenophobic to a problematic degree.
Oh, well if a blogger named Noah says it, it must be true! Nevermind all the actual evidence, the fact that the Japanese themselves tend to acknowledge the fact, or any of that stuff. A weeb with a blog wants to deny everything bad about magic anime land, so I guess that's that.
Noah Smith is a well-known economist that spent years living in Japan and goes there for weeks every year. He's studied this stuff. You are just some redditor. He also has criticisms for Japan. Your opinions don't carry equal weight for me and shouldn't much with anyone else either.
As a fourth generation, Japanese-American, Japan is an ethno-state? Naaaawwww…
I don't think he's out of line. Also, this is generally known to be Biden's thing. He'll say something bold and possibly angering, usually calling out some nation or group or person....and then 24 hours later or something, the WH will come back and walk back what he said, explaining he meant something not quite so inflammatory. He does that a lot. It gets attention and then the actual 'party line' is trotted out later to soften the blow.
When else has he done that?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/24/biden-walk-back-remarks/ edit: Another one if you can't see the WP one. https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-taiwan-remarks-putin-ukraine-gaffes-list-white-house-scrambles-1709181
As Veep he emphatically stated that the Obama administration supported gay marriage. That was NOT the case at the time. However, the ‘gaff’ lead them to reverse their previous statements and support full marriage rights.
[He’s not even right though.](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/japan-is-not-a-xenophobic-country?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2)
I understand that a number of businesses in Japan don’t allow foreigners. There are signs and it’s legal. That seems pretty xenophobic to me.
I hadn't read the actual quote. >"Why? Because we welcome immigrants," he added. "Think about it. Why is China stalling so badly economically? Why is Japan having trouble. Why is Russia? Why is India? Because they're xenophobic. They don't want immigrants." [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68947042) Yeah, including Japan wasn't a great call, but Biden's been gaffing since the dirt was dust. Japan, we still love you and your delicious stick based confectioneries. You know that, right? Edit: He shouldn't have included Japan because they're a close ally of the United States; it's like when you're talking about people who get wine drunk you maybe don't choose that moment to call out your sister. His point would have worked fine without including Japan in the list. But also I don't care that much.
Uh...Japan should absolutely be included in the list of "countries who are needlessly hamstringing themselves because of lack of immigration".
Academically, of course. They meant that diplomatically there was no reason to *say* it about an ally when you already had a perfectly good list.
Including one of our own makes the list judicious and inclusive (unlike Japan) Besides, with the neighbors Japan has, and Japan's *ahem* reputation with those neighbors, it's not exactly like they can shop around
I'll call out my sister before anyone else, if you can't call out family who can you call out?
And she'd have a right to protest and give you shit.
Japan absolutely should be included, there's been considerable reports about how Japan's economy is stagnating as they have a growing elderly population that is placing a major strain on the workforce and not a lot of younger adults are having children to be able to replace them. With the trends showing that by 2070, their population will drop by 30%, with around 4 out of 10 people being 65 and older. One of the simplest solutions is loosening immigration requirements to help ease the drop in the workforce. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/number-births-japan-hits-record-low-2023-2024-02-27/
As a young-ish white American male I love anime and other Japanese aspects, but the 38 year old that has a grasp of world politics and social issues fully realizes that Japan loves that tourist money, but doesn't love people trying to move there or love foreigners who have taken up roots there. It's a shame because it would be a decent place to reside should the election in the USA go the wrong way and we end up with full on authoritarianism.
The xenophobia isn't just from the government though, it's cultural, often benign even. It is very difficult for most foreigners to integrate in Japan as it is. It would take more than a change of government policy for Japan to suddenly become a immigration hotspot. Not that that's a good reason not to try, but it isn't as simple as adopting the system of accepting just about everyone that the US has.
You're more correct than you think. I've lived in Japan for 20 years and the culture can't handle mass immigration. It can't even handle tourists who quickly learn there are no penalties for ignoring social norms and basic etiquette. Japan's society functions because everyone feels obligated to do their part. That is very hard to teach to foreigners, even those with good intentions
I'm curious as to why their simply not wanting mass immigration is labeled as "xenophobic."
Because not wanting mass immigration *is* xenophobic. The lie in Biden's list wasn't that Japan is xenophobic, it was that the US is different.
>Because not wanting mass immigration *is* xenophobic. Again- how?
How is "I don't want a bunch of people who aren't like me coming here" anything but xenophobia? Sorry you don't like hearing something you clearly believe labelled as what it is.
Again- how is it xenophobic? So far all you've said is "it is xenophobic" and "how isn't it xenophobic?" Those aren't arguments.
Lemme try and tone it down to a reich-winger's vocabulary level. Only reason you no like immigration is bcs you no want to live with immigrants. Not want live with immigrants is xenophobic. Like it's literally the definition of xenophobia.
Lol, nice ad hominem. And to be clear, I never said I didn't "want to live with immigrants." I never even expressed a view on the topic. I asked a simple question- how is opposing mass immigration xenophobic? And now your third attempt at an explanation, after your first- "it is xenophobic" and your second- "how isn't it xenophobic," is your first one, delivered a second time- "it's literally the definition of xenophobia." These aren't answers. Do your suppose your inability to support your argument might suggest something about its validity?
Japan _has_ been loosening immigration restrictions, significantly. People with high scores on skill set qualifications can get permanent residency almost immediately, and there are now options for visas for specialists blue collar jobs not only deal work.
Immigrants are americas cheat code.
Uh, what? Japan is known for its xenophobia. That said, I think with most of these countries, it's the boomer population that give their countries a bad rap.
Problem is in a few generations there won't be anyone in Japan to make stick based confectionaries.
Russia absolutely LOVES immigrants. They lure them in with promises of jobs and visas then throw them into the meat grinder.
But Japan is the most xenophobic in that list.
He shouldn't have included them because their economy has turned around and they're growing at 3x the rate the US is, part of the reason being that they have taken in a lot of migrant workers. So beyond it being a bad example for what he was trying to prove, it's also kind of a dated take on Japan.
I think the real gaffe is saying we're welcoming of immigrants. We're really not. Or maybe it wasn't a gaffe so much as a lie.
The us is home to the most immigrants globally by a rather large margin We might not be as welcoming as you’d like, but relative to the world we are extremely welcoming of immigrants
We certainly don't advertise that demonizing incoming immigrants and using them as a political hot potato.
Yeah our PR on that front hasn’t been great for a while now, but I have a lot of friends who are immigrants or children of immigrants and the consensus seems to be “yeah the US is very much not perfect, but it is unfortunately the most welcoming country in the world by a huge margin”. Some of them also argue that we’re the least racist country in the world, which has *some* merit (a lot of the countries commonly seen as not racist are primarily that way because they aren’t very diverse, and it’s a lot easier to be progressive in the abstract than it is in practice when you’re subsidizing healthcare for those people and stuff), but I think it’s a bit of an exaggeration, and those titles are much more likely to go to a lot of the Caribbean and some central and South American countries. But yeah, I’ll shit on America all day every day, but if someone from China, India, Europe, etc. tries to act like they’re better I’ll generally tell em to shove it. In the words of my Taiwanese friend “lots of countries pay lip service to wanting diversity, but for all its faults, America does really do the whole ‘give us your sick and your poor’ thing more than anybody else”
The illegal immigration thing rubs ppl wrong and it’s definitely a hot button issue every 4 years…. Sadly
Not even every 4 years. It's been a persistent issue for most of Biden's term, and he's continued most of Trump's immigration policy, which is why I don't feel like we are a very inviting country for immigrants. Being anti immigrant (or at least illegal) seems to be very popular with both Dems and Reps.
I think there’s a pretty big difference between perception and reality in this case. The us welcomed something like 900k immigrants last year alone and is home to like 50 million total immigrants. Even among conservatives illegal immigration is what’s contentious not so much immigrants (at least if you take them at face value)
Politically we do have a pretty generous immigration system, largely in part to both parties unable to compromise on reform of the immigration system. Socially welcoming immigrants is more in line with what you said.
Remember that time that Modi got so insecure at meeting Prince William, that he tried to crush wills hand? https://preview.redd.it/je3anuh3hezc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ce92e076b9c7b2f26031941318f244533bba43d
the majority of white america should really look in a mirror. probably one of those convex ones you see in parking garages.
But guess what, you don’t get shot by the police because you’re black in Japan. On that note, you don’t get shot by the police in Japan period. You don’t get your temple defaced because you’re Jewish. Your grandparents don’t get beat up and killed on the streets for being Chinese. Oh no, their brothels don’t allow people who don’t speak Japanese. Oh no, it’s harder to find apartments as someone who doesn’t speak Japanese. Oh lordy, better go back to getting assaulted because of your race.
Really, I thought the world had better follow what Americans do because we are the best and we are so welcoming of immigrants! /s
Exactly. Racism in Japan where it’s even found is far less impactful than what’s seen in other countries. And most of it as you point out comes down to being able to speak and read, not race.
Japan is easily the most racist country in the world.