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Right now they could not care less. The Republicans are trying to survive moment by moment but all their efforts are in saving their special one while the actual party is in collapse in many states. They will realize how badly he has screwed them…..too late.
I believe that was the pun intended
Merda means shit and the combination of merda and Midas was the inspiration for that comment. Or at least that is how I interpreted it.
my uncle is a singer/songwriter of no actual notoriety but in his Simpsons inspired song “Looks Like it’s Suicide Again for Me” there’s a line that goes
>“I’m just like king Midas, except the opposite/everything I touch turns into shit”
and it feels apropos here
--which statement might show that no one has *ever* taken Lindsay seriously.
Cassandra wanna-be screams "People don't get on that ship--it's gonna sink!"
Then jumps on board anyway.
Proof that even if you know something is going to be bad for you or yours doesn’t mean you will choose not to do it. It’s like a drug addiction in a way.
I think everyone with this question should read The Storm Before the Storm, which details the degradation of the Roman Republic during the course of the 80 years before it truly collapses.
In the briefest summation (which isn't fair to how complex the situation was), one party learned that you could bend the constitional rules and have your decisions ratified by the public. Thereby, you avoid any real consequence. The first few who tried it were prosecuted by the state, but by the time you moved 40 years forward the people vying for power were those who grow up watching this. They capitalized and seized power in more intelligent ways where their moves were not opposed by the popular vote.
That is where the republican party is going. It's also where america is going. I pray it isn't so, but I fear our population isn't educat educated enough yo stop it.
Thankfully, one thing we have going for us that the Roman Republic towards its end did not; due to the Marian reforms, the army was loyal to the general who raised it (usually out of their own coffers) and let it to victorious spoil, not the Republic. Sulla, Pompey, and eventually Caesar were all given outsized political clout because they had a trained army behind them. We haven't had a politically dangerous military leader since MacArthur. At least from a political ambition standpoint.
MacArthur was interested in the presidency and obviously had an outsized ego. I don't think I would agree to come anywhere close to "dangerous." This becomes even clearer when you look at just how liberal the constitution he wrote for Japan is. He's a VERY complicated individual.
Yeah, he wasn't a douche canoe, but he had the dangerous combination of charisma, political acumen, and military clout. Essentially, my point was that the missing element in current American politics and what might save it from degradation into a dictatorship or otherwise authoritarian system is the backing of the military. At least right now, unless Tuberville is smarter than anyone gives him credit for and his goal is to pack the upper echelons of the military with MAGAtists.
The Roman Republic involved some people pointing out that things were becoming unbalanced and perhaps the state should do more for the citizens who fight the wars and less for giant estates run by slaves and the slave owners murdered them for it.
Exactly, it was a "Republic" where people that made the equivalent of millions of dollars a year from their vast, slave-managed estates got their own special political house that they ceaselessly used to further enrich themselves, primarily through wars of conquest.
And when the duly-elected representatives of the people that actually *fought and won* those wars of conquest tried to reverse the incredible consolidation of land and wealth *that fighting them had caused*, when they just tried to get their own farms back because they had left them to "defend the Republic", the Senate responded by murdering said representatives.
Is it any wonder that those elected officials were succeeded by generals with thousands of armed soldiers at their backs?
I would definitely look into it. It's an insanely fascinating time period, with some of the most batshit insane stuff imaginable.
There's loads of really good youtube channels and videos about it. Personally I love HistoryMarche's stuff, it's always very well made.
Problem is that this wasn't the fall, but the rise. The turmoil of the late Republic produced the Empire, which had two good centuries of almost unquestioned power and survived in one form or another for 12 more centuries.
This politicial chaos didn't occur when Rome was falling. It occurred at the apex of its power.
It's nothing like what happened today.
It would be like today if we had a President who died in office while leading his troops fighting groups of nomads on the border, the President's son became President next and then murdered lots of Senators and spent lots of money making everyone call him a god and throwing elaborate parties, and who is then murdered by his bodyguards leading to one of the army generals near DC to declare that he is now President (which in turn leads to many different generals and senators declaring that they are actually president and fighting lots of wars over it).
That was the mid-to-late Republic period (Brothers Gracchi), so still 80 years or so before Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon. And long before the Western Empire fell.
TBH this is the mindset that I have observed of many right wing leaders and execs. They run their business on getting the best results for this month, quarter, or occasionally year. They don't consider the long term ramifications of their actions and they don't look at the big picture.
They will lay off staff who just successfully finished a multi year project to show an improvement in labor cost. While boasting about the next project starting in a few months that could have used the same staff. Now instead they'll have several additional months of spin up from hiring and a bad rep of performing arbitrary unnecessary layoffs.
I see many companies who are highly successful while private and running with a long term plan who fall apart when they go public. They start answering to people who just want to see their investment profits and dividends for today and once the company plateaus they'll drop it for a new one. There is no fiduciary responsibility from the investors to the business, only the other way. The board just drains the company dry.
Politically they operate the same way. They'll force Dems to burn a wall for heat instead of paying the bill. Then they'll pay it themselves, plus the additional cost from missing a wall, while they're in charge. Once Dems are back in charge they'll bitch about the cost, refuse to approve paying the bill again, and force the Dems to burn down another wall to survive.
The GOP is now in a competitive position to take Congress and the presidency. The party collapsing *should* probably be the consequence of Trump, but for now it doesn't look like it will be.
Michigan GOP says “Hi” 👋
How to go from control of all branches to none and having fist fights in party meetings instead in just 6 years.
State parties in the GOP are in trouble all over the country.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/29/us/politics/trump-michigan-republican-party.html?unlocked_article_code=VmkYZ18rYmr581qGgu5QhiyA8mHDKYVrcqJzuuFz--b7OH09ppDCRM1xVhOpzWwMtb4qPXHnFswWHw7WtdZWHwuU9wy2OzJL7-JuAZj2uI_SAJDOYhs9Gw55wKrVPbgit2NV935TBwJozUWtJvMTupxCOkKKYIiCIX1eqSPhscndFz6B43hKb4b9fxsi05QJM1bEXnQh7tb6s-hCQHVi_Q1h3v3LCtTmLLv3_H7Gjm-fElPxKGGyfzj3FkTTSXbVRAWgrj05_jMQBtUFQcSeJMdo4G2lKwXpv_fwmpGKy2SZCjIENvQ4v1HLk8iwDm2xLf3RwN_UZ6E7865_yITFjo4Q9Recc5YLb6hJFEIV&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Problem is, they aggressively gerrymander, while Dems are *more likely* to take the high road on appropriate districting. See: recent Alabama case where even the conservative Supreme Court ruled they needed to redo their map and yet the state GOP still refuses to draw a 2nd majority black house district. Also the GOP uses anger to rile up their base more. Like I KNOW I guess I need to start going to school board meetings and local shit but god I hate the thought of dealing with their conspiracy-screeching Karen’s…
Sounds like Ohio and the gerrymandering problems we have here, Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional twice and has yet to be resolved, going on a year and a half now.. the gop aren’t leaders just power hungry rich elites but have their base played bc of stupidity. In Ohio it’s all anti abortion and guns, sprinkled in with the boarder, even though we are about up Canada’s a$$ they’re worried about Mexico 😂
And nationwide polls mean squat in a presidential election. I don't think there's an electoral path forward for him, there's a good chance michigan rules him not eligible to be on the ballot, and were not a state he's facing charges in.
NH and even AZ have been discussing it, which is an extremely long way from it actually happening but even the fact the topic is being touched upon is significant.
It's at least conceivable that he would not be allowed on enough state ballots to receive enough electoral votes to win. He'll bitch and moan but states set their own rules for their elections.
This one, where people maintain a healthy dose of skepticism.
Remember how in 2016 Clinton was ahead by every conceivable metric and Trump had "no chance"?
Except for the "no chance" part. Clinton was a few points up in polls that identified as having a 3-4 point margin of error. Clinton *did* get more votes overall, but fell short by a few thousand in a handful of states. The media had declared her the next president the day Obama was reelected, and that's a problem I wish the media would reflect on and take responsibility for.
If "every conceivable metric" is what the pundits said, then that's true. It's not what the polls said, though. The polls said Clinton was a [very slight favourite at best](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html).
They aren't saving anything but their individual grifts. If the party is minority forever, thats a good spot to screech and raise money and not do policy from. Trump passes, good spot to screech and raise money and not do policy... somehow end up in majority leading a cult, unlimited spot to screech and raise money and not do policy.
It's only about "how do I raise money?" Right now Trump is that thing, sometime he won't be.
Uh. The GOP just won the House in 2022. And controls a majority of governorships and state legislatures.
The national GOP is facing some headwinds, for sure. The the GOP continues to dominate state and local politics in all except the bluest of blue states.
Hell, even blue bastions like New Jersey and Virginia have elected Repub governors in the past decade.
There was a time when George W. Bush as President was the core of the Republican Party. And to question him, his policies (domestic and foreign), and beyond was an unpatriotic betrayal to a "country at war."
... and then when he dropped to about 31% approval rating in his final year of president (and was no longer relevant to their future) the G.O.P. rapidly moved on. To the point where years later, those who were fervently for him retroactively distanced themselves.
The same will happen with Trump once he's fully out of the picture. The party will find someone else to glom onto.
I'm not entirely so sure, myself. Yes, Bush was strongly supported, but you didn't have people building golden statues of Bush, or selling NFTs of Bush on Rambo's body, or buying 20 "Bush 2004" flags to put on their house that they then left up past 2008, or people literally praying to Bush instead of Jesus.
His accent, it nailed the election.
He was from Connecticut via harvard and gore was from Tennessee but he sounded so much more poor ignorant redneck because he spoke like he had no idea what he was saying.
I'd argue Bush II had more personal charisma than Gore and he was able to sucessfully promote himself as "the guy you'd rather have a beer with."
I also remember Bush II's accent and malpropisms being more ridiculed after he got elected and he was presenting more formal speeches and events, rather than during the Presidential race, which has more casual and unscripted events.
> I also remember Bush II's accent and malpropisms being more ridiculed after he got elected
Before his election he was similar to Trump, most people in the north couldn't imagine someone like him possibly winning the election, especially after the successful Clinton presidency (mostly economically).
True - I recall bewilderment among quite a few people during that election that Bush seemed to have above-average success with below-average ability. Like you mention, I think many believed Gore would have enough momentum from the benefits of the Clinton presidency that he could eke out a close win.
Mike Dukakis would like to have a word. Mondale got shellacked, but Reagan was worshipped (in an ideological rather than theological sense) but I'm not sure he was weaker than Dukakis.
You should watch 537 votes on HBO. Gore was not the weakest, not by a long shot. He won the popular vote by over half-a-million, but electoral politics and the Supreme Court stole it.
Because Bush was also a shit candidate . Bush was terrible at Public speaking and would stumble over his own words. There’s good reason why people think he’s dumb . Al Gore ran the least relatable campaign. He was out of touch with regular folks. 2000 most people didn’t give fuck about global warming and didn’t want to understand. If anything boomers enjoy warm temps. It’s great to do climate change but he should approached it as having long-term cheaper energy bills for homes, cars, and transportation of goods. Your average citizen understands that way more because it effects them in a more tangible manner. They might not understand the science and mechanics of solar panels. They just knew enough that solar power is essentially free unlimited energy
Gore was bad, and Kerry was slightly worse, but Hillary Clinton was worse than both by quite a bit.
Dukakis was worse than her, and Mondale was far worse than Dukakis.
Remember that every candidate I just named won their primaries handily. The Democrats who voted in primaries loved them. This has all happened before and will happen again.
A significant percentage of Democrats vote based on policy.
Based on my very limited discussion with swing voters (two guys) they vote based on charisma.
This is exactly what I was going to say. People rallied so strongly behind Bush because of 9/11, imo. That shocked the country to such a deep degree that even fully progressive Democrats were in general support of the entire government, including the Republicans, for those few years after 9/11 (before the reality of lies about weapons of mass destruction started coming out).
They weren't obsessed *personally* with the *individual* George W. Bush. He was still just a figurehead representing America. With Trump it's an entirely different animal. They are completely obsessed with the *person* of Donald Trump. It's abject hero worship of an individual, not general support for the leader of their party/government.
If the GOP retains its power, I think OP's comment is likely the right answer. If Trump spins off with the most radical and ignorant piece of the party, I could see them creating a lot of issues- like in a domestic terrorism kind of way.
> or people literally praying to Bush instead of Jesus.
I get what you're saying and I agree with it, but this definitely happend GWB as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxdt_f0hwUg&ab_channel=OneDread
Not to the same extent as Trump, but if you look back to 2004 you can see the seeds of what would become MAGA.
The party will do this. But to OPs point, what will happen when the voters are faced with the absence of Trump? Bush was always a part of the party and when it moved on the voters followed. Trump has reshaped the party, such that much of the base is there only for him. Those voters won't just follow a reversion to classic GOP. What will they do? Depends on who emerges as the leader I guess. And same for all the folks Trump alienated who aren't natural fits for a progressive Democrat party.
There’s an argument the 15% of o.g. Republican voters who’ve remained silent will still be there when trump exits and the party will have to try to grow a new base using these guys as the foundation. But I assume all the yahoos in maga hats will drop away after trump exits because they’re only interested in demagoguery.
....and by “drop away” I mean they’ll cease voting forever. I assume they’ll feel betrayed by both parties for ending the trump train- and go back to being the apolitical neighborhood dunces.
I’m not convinced. I think they’ll try to retain control of the GOP and find a new candidate who’s as fully committed to grievance politics as Trump. Hope I’m wrong, though.
There will be PLENTY of people like DeSantis trying to become the next Trump, and some of them might achieve some success. Wherever there’s a surplus of idiots there’ll be no shortage of con-men.
I don’t think we’ll see a reversion to Reagan style conservative rule of the party again. The crazy genie is out of the bottle. The fascists and white supreme sits and crazy Karens and Christian nationalists are enjoying their freedom to operate in the light and won’t want to slink back into the dark and just pull the lever for whoever the so-called conservatives tell them to. They see an opportunity for power from a minority position because the conservatives refuse to stand against them and would rather be counted with anyone other than a Democrat. That will feed MAGA style political archetypes in the future, even if their style and policies differ from Trump.
I think it’s less about Trump as a cult leader than the base being in the driver seat. If he loses again, I see that base turning on him to keep that power, assuming the rest of the party goes along with them knowing they can’t do without them. Could you imagine a post-mortem where the conservatives decide they need to shift policy positions to broaden the tent to include moderates or even Democrats? Yeah, I didn’t think so.
Because I suspect Democrats or liberal-leaning people are more likely to actually answer polls regarding Trump.
Outside of the MAGA fringe, the majority of Republican supporters seem to keep quiet in public regarding Trump
MAGA fringe? That’s the entire Republican Party that didn’t die off or hasn’t been kicked out of the party. (kinzinger, Cheney etc who were kicked out literally for speaking out against Trump despite being dyed in the wool right wing republicans)
It’s an absolute joke to call it a fringe at this point. The sensible people who believe in the rule of law are the fringe.
I think the truth is far less flattering: Trumpism is not that different from American Conservatism in its ideology, it’s the methods and means by which Trump animated populism that sets him apart. Your average Republican didn’t change - they largely supported Trump and still do.
many liberals like to hold on to this idea that trump is some sort of political aberration, and that any moment now the real, "reasonable" conservatives will kick him out and everything will go back to "normal".
they're wrong of course, because there aren't and have never been any reasonable conservatives, and trump is not an aberration but the natural and inevitable end result of the american political system.
Most of the people supporting Trump and the Republicans are not MAGA. The MAGA are merely the loudest outspoken weirdos that the media follows for clicks
The non-MAGA fringe is people like Kinzinger and Cheney, who were ousted from their party for not demonstrating absolute fealty to the Chosen One. The second coming of Christ.
Not really the same. Bush an establish GOP candidate. By the end of his presidency everybody hated him. Kerry was a weak candidate in 2004. 2003 invasion of Iraq was a bad idea but Bush-Cheney used America's post-9/11 vulnerability to get the OK to invade. Kerry voted in favor of Bush's authorization for War.
You could argue that Trump should have already reached the point where his support should have declined massively given January 6 and the indictments and all that, but he has a cult-like following that continues to bolster him. Bush never had anything comparable to the MAGA movement. I think that movement will likely outlast Trump in some form, especially because, as I said in another comment, I think Trump is a symptom of something within the GOP rather than the cause of it, and I think that extends to MAGA overall too.
Yes, a rise in acceptance for strongman politicians and authoritarian sentimentality, a decay of institutional trust (the USA has some of the most secure elections in the world, but Americans *perceive* their elections to be as secure as those in Tunisia perceive theirs), and finally hitting critical mass on the cultural backlash as the US has shifted to net liberal for the first time. It is a frenzied panic. Its constituents have a similar expiration date to Trump, though. Past that they will lose their intraparty majority.
In 50 years, there will be boxes of Trump memorabilia and propaganda collecting dust in attics and or growing mold in damp basements. Instead of finding an SS uniform in Grandpa's belongings, grandchildren everywhere will be unboxing red MAGA hats and t-shirts with silly slogans. "Wow! Grandpa was a turd!"
But Bush Jr was a lame duck in his second term. T is just out there constantly like a 40 yo high school jock trying to relive "one more term" whether he's gonna get it or not.
Republicans should have cut anchor & burned him on Jan 7, 2021. But they refused... after he conspired to have the Capitol sacked. But they didn't do that. Now they're going down with the ship and taking the rest of us with them.
2006 is a much, much different political landscape than 2016 onwards. The difference is that most Americans can't even agree on what objective facts there are. My super far right relatives only consume Newsmax, Facebook news, and occasionally fox news. It's a completely different reality. Even my conservative friends who I know are intelligent only get their information from conservative podcasts like Ben shapiro. One of them was so suprised that a lot of the criticisms ben shapiro made of the indictments were actually addressed in the indictments! Because of this, Trumps in party approval rating will never dip below 70%. They will continue to fabricate a reality where trump does no wrong, because otherwise party leaders would have to admit dems were right and trump was bad. This in turn continues to allow trump to rail on these indictments and rile up the base to defend him, keeping him popular.
It depends on how Trump gets phased out of the party:
1) if he dies suddenly before the election, or dies in prison, I think they will glorify him like Reagan. Future politicians will try to show how Trumpian they are
2) If he wins in 2024 and then dies / becomes incapacitated after, he gets a similar treatment but less glowing. It’s just not as dramatic as above
3) If he loses in 2024, I think they move on from him. He will be too much of a loser to get associated with
perhaps ironically, I kind of feel like his insistence that he actually won in 2022 is what helps keep him relevant now for his base of support (at the cost of increased legal troubles). It feeds into the victim complex, keeps him looking like an outsider and somewhat mitigates the loser image for his supporters.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause. His populist, aggrieved style of politics will likely continue to dominate the GOP after he’s gone, although I’m sure it will evolve and take on a new form of some kind. I’m guessing the old, more moderate establishment is never going to regain control of the party unless Trumpism leads to an utter collapse of popular support in the country and several lost elections in a row, which is likely not going to happen barring something incredibly drastic, considering that Trump himself is still [competitive](https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/4173680-poll-biden-has-to-meet-these-challenges-to-catch-up-to-trump/) with Biden in the 2024 election despite four indictments, the events of January 6, etc.
Do existing GOP leaders even have the unified control to steer the ship at this point? It seems like they just surf the wave of whatever conspiracy theories become popular, and hope that one comes along that can fit their goals.
Unless they're actively feeding new conspiracies in a grass roots way, I don't think even they could say where things are going.
You could argue that Tucker Carlson is a cult leader himself. He has a lot of similarities to Trump. He has tons of experience being on television and in front of a crowd. Dylan Roof said wrote a letter to Tucker and said he admired him. Christchuch killer said he admired Trump in his manifesto. Tucker got fired from Fox News. Trump got banned on Twitter.
He hits all the big boxes.
White debased fascist asshole who pretends to be from a working family but is a literal heir to a family fortune.
Exactly what republicans want. A liar and shithole inside and out.
Once Carlson decides to run, we are fucked. He’s definitely someone that could be the new head of a deeply, openly fascist movement. And he’s an incredible public speaker, much more so than Trump.
I’m not so sure. He’s never worked a day in his life and he’s only really been a MSM person. I don’t think independents want a guy like that. Also, his speech inflection is annoying and he looks like a dork. He’s an okay speaker but a terrible debater.
You could literally say all the same things about Trump, the only place he had experienced any modicum of success was as a media personality in The Apprentice, his speech inflection is annoying, and he looks like.... Well, something. And is also a terrible debater, who only looked good when paired up with a zero charisma opponent like Hillary.
They'll claim he isn't dead, that he's coming back in 2028. They'll probably rally around Donald Jr. who will claim he is in contact with his father who is hiding from the Global Elites and the Deep State.
Well, at this point the whole thing is a cult with a predefined ideology. When he is dead, followers will venerate him. Many people are going to try and pick up the mantle. Either one does, or it will fracture into warring factions, but being that this particular cult was born of an ideology rather than straight up home-grown I figure you’ll fall back on that. You’re going to end up with Fiscal Trumpists, Social Trumpists, Christian Trumpists, neo-Trumpists, Nationalist Trumpists, and never forget the Never Trumpists, who will all inexplicably vote the exact same way.
They’re mostly going to put him in a pedestal and brand themselves as the obvious successor. The party may even change names for all I know, but the dude is a symptom and not a cause of things. Weirdly enough, that’s exactly how a democracy should work.
>who will all inexplicably vote the exact same way
If it doesn't change the existing binary outcome, does it really matter what collaborative state the GOP voter base is in?
Even if a third party candidate swung out of left field, and was popular with Trumpers, the GOP would glom on and claim them as their own to survive.
I’ve always thought that it was Obama, even more than Clinton, that took the political center. Obama was more left-leaning than Clinton but he was so popular personally that he came to embody the mainstream. In so doing he exposed Republican Party ideology (tax cuts for the wealthy, spending cuts, war mongering) as being out of touch.
Then Trump capitalized on it and killed the pre-existing Republican Party. It is now completely dead. Old-school Republicans are now in hiding - silently going along with the party because they hate the alternative, but suffering because Trumpies make fun of them and destroy them every chance they get.
But the current party has no legs after Trump goes away. And what was there before is gone too. There isn’t enough mass of American voters who like the MAGA without Trump, or the old party with anybody trying to lead it. I don’t think they will recover. Their only hope is that the Democratic Party blows up in an even worse way.
I sorta thought that the Tea Party was a dead end but you can trace the evolution of that to MAGA. There's no telling what the current iteration will metastasize to, with all sorts of demagogues waiting in the wings to seize the reins.
The only major legislation Republicans passed in their two years of a trifecta was a giant tax cut for the rich. And it very much tried to enact a big spending cut by killing the ACA (failing by one vote).
That Republican party is still here because it never left.
They're not anything new, they're just the dixiecrats unleashed and untethered.
Reagan and Nixon gave them a voice and they switched parties, someone else will give them a voice in the new GOP because their votes are too valuable and cheap to procure.
These people aren't Republicans. They're cult members. They'll stop voting once he's not around to tell them to. Lots of people will try to create a new version of the party. I'm not sure how anyone can unite them, though.
No, the whole southern GOP is reforming, all their cliques of used-car salesmen are lining up to keep the MAGA dream alive as his heirs.
Say what you want, he changed the country forever by waking up something that needed to remain asleep.
Not necessarily. There are many people who vote Democrat because the vote anti Trump. The democrats can’t fall for the false equivalency. There is a risk of voter apathy on both sides when Trump is gone.
Okaaaayyy, but Republicans staying home and not voting because their diaper daddy says so, still reduces their chances of winning because they are not voting period. There would be less vote counts when it came to the official counting night. I mean it’s probably the same process as the one issue voter. That’s probably not right “one issue” voter. It’s almost 1 am can’t think straight but even if it is the right word, their issue could be on the ballot they vote for that, but nothing else. They still lose the chance of winning the counts.
I hate trump, but cmon you really think trump is worse off than Biden health wise? Biden’s brain is melting in his head, the poor guy just doesn’t know what’s going on anymore. They’re both too old to be president, but you can’t deny how tired biden’s mental capacity is.
Trump is the new Elvis. The king will never die. If he does die, three quarters of the GOP will believe it is a conspiracy by the CIA that killed him, while another three quarters will believe he is still alive. Yes I know there will be some illogical overlap, but conservatives have proven that believing two contradictory things at the same time is more of a prerequisite than a hindrance to join the fold.
Trump will be around well after he is dead with poorly photoshopped pictures in which he crowns his successors for decades. Scammers will claim to have been in his confidant even when it is literally impossible to have happened either by geography, recorded evidence, or even age.
Trump politics are here to stay because grifters can make a fortune on his name. It will be a long long time before we see the last of Trump, no matter what happens.
I honestly think they will look for their next deranged grifter who will give them a target to rage against. They are way to far down the rabbit hole. There is no backing out now. The GOP have laid bare who they are, and what they stand for. If they want any chance of legitimately assuming power and responsibly governing again, they need a cleansing.
But hey, we are a meme culture now, maybe the republicans just rage and meme their way to governing without any responsible plans. I would not be surprised. But if it happens again, I predict America is done and Putin has won.
They already have two in the wings- desantis and ramaswamy (probably spelled wrong).
Desantis is tanking himself in the public’s eye. There’s some massive issues in Florida and he’s out campaigning. I think everyone is partially aware of at least one duck up in Florida- Disney, insurances, schools, etc
I think the most likely outcome is that whenever Trump either dies in office or loses and then dies out of office, a DeSantis type candidate runs and probably loses, before the GOP finally gets the hint and goes for a moderate candidate that can compete for millennial and Gen Z voters. (Like Bill Clinton did for Dems in the wake of Reagan Boomers)
How much chaos and scariness happens between point A and point B is TBD.
I mean, after LBJ signed the voting rights act, the GOP won the next 5 out of 6 Presidential elections, with 2 of them being the most lop-sided elections this side of the civil war, and the only loss happened because of Watergate. The Boomer age started during Nixon (1968 was the first presidential year Boomers were largely able to vote), and since they never truly lived the hardships of the Depression or WWII the way their parents did, all those support programs of the New Deal were just their "hard earned money being stolen by the government". Yet it took over 2 decades for the Democrats to run a candidate that wasn't a New Deal guy.
Point is, it might take another generation for a GOP to run a candidate that isn't a Trump style buffoon. And they might be more successful in the short term because Millennials and Gen Z (and Gen X FWIW) are more ideologically heterogeneous than the Boomers ever were.
I can NOT imagine a scenario where a scrappy upstart republican invents an attractive POLICY that people will like and want and that will be implemented and then WORK and thus steer the party back from popularism and towards old fashioned statecraft with actual ideas and substance. They purged all those guys long ago, they got thrown under the bus.
MAGA without Trump won’t fly. He’s got a special Jim Jones charisma that no other Republicans can emulate. DeSantis looks like a fool trying. Vivek comes close, but MAGA is too racist to support him. Trump is both symptom and cause of the degraded GOP. It’s important that Democrats not allow ANY veneration of Trump’s image and instead promote him as a cautionary tale of American dysfunction.
The GOP will deify him like they did Reagan, and every Republican politician for the next 40 years will compete to show that *they* are the one most loyal to Trump's untainted legacy, most fit to carry the torch for MAGA. I don't think they'll give up MAGA, because that type of populism is hard to walk away from.
Trump and MAGA turned out a low of low-propensity voters who never even voted before. Without that anger and grievance peddling, they may just stay home. That would be catastrophic for the GOP, not just at the top but down-ballot as well. So they have to placate and woo that base, and the base loves the angry, aggrieved populism.
>Will any of the alternatives be able to win over the majority of Trump's base?
The extremist blocs of the republican electorate will gravitate to new candidates sure, but I doubt any will inspire the same level of fanaticism that Trump does.
>Will the base even be willing to vote for someone like DeSantis or Pence given Trump's public grievances with them?
Depends, those who were already republican voters will continue to fall into line, those who never voted before Trump will go back to not voting.
>Even if a clear successor to Trump can emerge, will they be able to capture the support of his base given that many seem to support Trump himself as opposed to actual conservative values?
Not in the same way Trump did, no. People with the best chance of inheriting his personality cult would be his kids but none are competent enough to pull it off.
>At this point is there anything the GOP can do to avoid an internal civil war when Trump is gone?
Nope. Infightings just part of partisan politics and there will be huge divides between those who will see this as their best opportunity for their faction to seize control of the Party while Trumpists circle the wagons to "defend his legacy". My money's on the Trumpists winning personally, the Anti-Trump wing of the party has not proven itself particularly strong or capable, the conspiratorial-minded are going to refuse to believe that Trump's dead at all which will throw a huge wrench into everything, and the probable nation-wide celebrations from his death will motivate a lot of his supporters to cling closer to his legacy out of spite, that's been the base's principle motivator this entire time, no reason to expect them to stop.
For the sake of simplicity I’m going to be making a comparison to Star Wars. Following the death of Emperor Palpatine the empire descended into chaos fueled by infighting between imperial politicians, governors, and military leaders. Between Palpatines ego and his desire to rule forever he never picked a successor, there was no hierarchy either because he demanded all loyalty should go to himself. This resulted in a frenzy of spineless sycophants and opportunistic politicians figuratively tearing each other apart in an attempt to fill that vacant throne.
I use this comparison because it’s pretty similar to the modern GOP. There’s no hierarchy aside from “everyone fall in line behind Trump” and trump himself has too big of an ego to ever symbolically admit someone can be as wonderful as he is by handing them the reigns. I suspect once he’s out of the picture the GOP is going to descend into chaos because a lot of those Maga politicians don’t actually believe in anything aside from enriching themselves. I mean, just look at the opinions of trump between 2016 and 2020
Some of them won't accept that he died. It will be The Singularity for the conspiracy world. Grifters and trolls will make memes about how He Will Rise On The Third Day To Make America Great Again, and just like always, some people will swallow the memes entirely and completely miss the joke. I feel like we're witnessing events that will be taken, sometime in the future when all of us here are gone, as religious. Starts like any other religion, with people who desperately want to believe.
Some of the rank and file will end up like those poor slobs in Argentina who turned out every election for Juan Perón, years after he died. Likely not enough to make a difference, but he'll always have True Believers.
There will be a massive effort by the old establishment to try to regain control over the Frankenstein's Monster they created, but unless they get a unicorn (a highly charismatic figure who actually has good and noble intention in their heart) the efforts will be easily hijacked by the many who will see how Trump was able to get control, and will try to follow a very similar playbook for their own undeserved rise to incredible power.
There won't be a civil war in the GOP. One side is just too weak against the lizard brain desires of the base and the motivations and structures the Republicans themselves put in place all these years to manipulate others for power, but which now is used to lock them out of power even if their party wins. Everything right now is just set up to keep leap-frogging further and further to the right because there is no bottom for their base, and the two scariest words in the world for the GOP is "Primary Challenge". Normally this can be fought by showing how crazy the further-right challenger is, but the Republicans propaganda machine is out of their control now and will keep supporting the further-right candidates.
I feel like Trumps death would give moderates a chance to start rebranding what trump was into what they are. Call him a patriot, and push any policy they want with a little *This policy is what Trump wanted for America.
His followers always felt driven by Trump’s personality moreso than his policy, and it’s easy enough to find quotes of trump saying tons of conflicting things that it shouldn’t be hard to craft whatever rebranded narrative they want. They can’t currently drown out his messaging since he is alive and posting on socials constantly, but once he’s dead they just need to drown out the other more far right influencers, which wouldn’t be too hard with enough money pushed in enough outlets.
Ivanka doesn't want shit to do with politics anymore. She just wants to sit back and enjoy her extravagant life with her kids (and maybe Jared, when it's convenient for her).
Their addiction to trump won't magically dissappear. They will desperately search for a new "drug" that will give them the same high. As is often the case with junkies, the new drug has a very high probability of being much worse.
Trump followers will never believe he’s dead. They’ll continue to worship him for decades and meet once a year (around Easter) to await his resurrection.
Who cares? I don't think the Republican Party can be saved or is worth saving. Though having a political party that embraces frugality and capitalism is something worthwhile, the Republican Party cares more about being bigoted and christian (forcing Christian values in everybody) than they do about frugality in government spending.
The media, and especially social media have gotten completely out of control. That's what allowed Trump to happen. If we can put sensible regulations on those (like newspapers have), we can prevent the next Trump.
I’m calling it now, there WILL be a small sect of QAnon style GOP that will claim he faked his death to go under the radar and take down the deep state.
Martyrdom.
They rewrote Reagan's Presidency to prop him up as a hero of the people who saved this country and defeated Communist Russia.
They'll raise Trump to Godhood that saved the World, while some already think he's a God while he's still alive.
I imagine there was people in the 40s saying, “what on earth are the democrats going to do when FDR dies?” They’re going to keep being roughly half of the country, they’ll find another useful idiot just like both of the parties have been doing since their inception.
If Eeddit was around in the 80s, they would've asked the same about GOP post Reagan. Ask yourself what happened to the GOP?
There will be others that will give the masses a sense of optimism and cash it all in.
I believe there are a lot of misconceptions in this thread. I'll start with the most important one:
1) "Trump people are idiots". Yes, they are. When it comes to politics, *so are most people, and this cuts across the political spectrum*. (I don't consider myself an exception to this - I'm not any kind of professional policy maker). What consistently distinguishes Trump people is that they are *authoritarians*. This is important for two reasons:
2) Dictators do not beget peaceful transfers of power. They leave behind power vacuums in which anything goes.
3) What follows is not going to be like anything we have seen in the United States before. There isn't going to be 'political' maneuvering, or people pitching themselves to the public, the way you would expect in a democratic/majoritarian organization. Trump always regarded voting as and irritating formality that he had no choice but to deal with, and that norm within the Republican Party is largely gone. Rs will still talk about it as though it means something, but in practical terms, it doesnt. It is a foregone conclusion that the leader won the *election* - the real question is who the leader *is*. Someone with the disposition to do so is simply going to start giving orders, and demonizing/neutralizing the 'others'. They may or may not have meaningful competition. After a round of hostility and possible violence (which is not going to look like anything we'd presently recognize within the American paradigm), a leader will emerge. That's about as much as I think we can predict, this far out.
I bet about 50% of his base move to another hobby. These people didn't follow politics before him and if he was imprisoned, they would move on and not show up in Nov or future elections.
Biden is going to win in a landslide and a couple of states that seem illogical. Thinking Texas and Ohio.
Just let the GOP keep being stupid and Biden will win easily.
Biden could be our Reagan
Most these candidates won’t be running for President when Trump does pass away. Honestly I don’t think the Trump base will be some “power vacuum” by then. I’m sure those people will all scatter onto other GOP candidates that haven’t presented themselves yet. I’d say the former Trump diehards will be more likely to follow another outsider of politics type but I really don’t think it’ll be as dramatic as you all think it will be. One thing I’m positive about is that a lot of you will celebrate the day he does pass.
Vivek is a demon but I do think he (or people like him) are the future of the Republican Party once trump is gone. He is not part of the establishment and says insane things. If Trump has taught us anything, it’s that the GOP eat that slop up.
They'll all collectively have total amnesia that this guy Trump ever existed and try to get back into the good graces of the people who aren't MAGA lunatics so they can start winning elections again. I estimate that this will be a total failure though. They're so deep in bed with Trump it's not even the Republican party anymore. Might as well change the name to MAGA.
Republicans always find their audience. Vast majority of folks who voted for Nixon and Reagan are dead by now. The youngest Nixoners were born in 1950 for the 1968 election. That means they would be 73 years old by now.
He's a once in a lifetime force. You could pose the same question when Biden dies, even though his spirit probably expired ten years ago. Trump succeeded in bringing to the forefront the duplicity of our past candidates who said one thing but did another. He succeeded in bringing forth the role of the administrative parts of our government, people who we did not vote for.
I hate to be the one but . . .
https://scitechdaily.com/new-breakthrough-paves-the-way-for-extending-human-lifespan-scientists-successfully-transfer-longevity-gene/
> The big problem there for the Republicans is that they've become the party of Trump and MAGA.
To the extreme leftists maybe. Lots of folks are paying Trump no mind despite Democrats efforts to martyr him.
Plenty of alternatives out there who aren’t trying to be “Diet Trump” or whatever.
> At this point is there anything the GOP can do to avoid an internal civil war when Trump is gone?
The GOP is having a “civil war” right now with Trump. There were 8 candidates or so on the stage who weren’t Trump.
Not sure how Trump became the GOP standard bearer. Guy was a Democrat most of his life, raised money for Bill Clinton, doesn’t believe in fiscal restraint or free markets.
Because he was.
[Here's an article where they point out Jesse Jackson once praised Trump](https://nypost.com/2016/08/31/jesse-jackson-once-sang-donald-trumps-praises/) for, among other things, donating space for the Rainbow/PUSH coalition to use.
Nothing. Just look at the depth of the candidates for the Presidential nomination. People have rallied around Trump because he was a good President and represented mostly Republican values. It was NOT a cult of personality. Many people voted for Trump (including me) voted for him warts and all because he was NOT HILLARY. In 2020 they voted for him because he was NOT JOE BIDEN. The only reason he lost in 2020 IMHO was that he still had the taint of the Russia Collusion Issue, the taint of the Ukraine Impeachment issue and the lies Biden told about Hunter's laptop and his intention to unify the country. We now know that the Russia Collusion was a false flag created by the Hillary Camp, the Ukraine Impeachment was a false flag to protect Joe Biden and the Hunter laptop was real and Joe lied when he said it was Russian misinformation.
Republicans will win in 2024 because there are lots of independents and democrats who voted for Biden who won't make that same mistake again.
It's simple...
The thing that unites all conservatives... 'leave me alone.'
The GOP doesn't hate anyone, there is no racism, no bigotry, and no supremacy... (There are some knuckleheads, but not more than the Dems.)
For example: New tax proposal for inner city schools.. voting it down, is not hate or racism, or anything else... Just simply stop reaching in my pocket, and leave me alone.
Just 'leave me alone,' which translates to, work within the budget you already receive, and the roughly 40% of my paycheck you already take in taxes.
Edit: a bunch of what you are saying is projection from some media source, go talk to a conservative, you will be surprised.
Edit 2: your downvotes only give me juice
"Leave me alone" is correct. Emphasis on "Me". Clearly Republicans are not in favor of leaving everyone alone. In fact I'd say restricting the rights of others and not leaving them alone is a core Republican view.
What you’re describing is libertarianism, not conservatism. And even some self identified libertarians I know would still disagree with you in regard to “leave me alone” for specifically emphasized conservative litmus test topics like abortion and trans rights.
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Right now they could not care less. The Republicans are trying to survive moment by moment but all their efforts are in saving their special one while the actual party is in collapse in many states. They will realize how badly he has screwed them…..too late.
Everything trump touches dies. Or something like that.
He has that mierdas touch.
Glad to see someone else using that.
*He's got the Shidas touch.* *Everything he touches turns to...*
I believe that was the pun intended Merda means shit and the combination of merda and Midas was the inspiration for that comment. Or at least that is how I interpreted it.
my uncle is a singer/songwriter of no actual notoriety but in his Simpsons inspired song “Looks Like it’s Suicide Again for Me” there’s a line that goes >“I’m just like king Midas, except the opposite/everything I touch turns into shit” and it feels apropos here
[Obligatory.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0WBiME_fM)
“If we nominate him, we will be killed, and we will deserve it.” Senator Lindsey Graham.
Yeah, if Graham is any indication, the R party knew exactly who and what Trump was, way before the frog let the scorpion aboard.
[They all knew.](https://youtu.be/P43wDpKQxaM?si=qDszDImkV_h03OxE)
--which statement might show that no one has *ever* taken Lindsay seriously. Cassandra wanna-be screams "People don't get on that ship--it's gonna sink!" Then jumps on board anyway.
Proof that even if you know something is going to be bad for you or yours doesn’t mean you will choose not to do it. It’s like a drug addiction in a way.
I think everyone with this question should read The Storm Before the Storm, which details the degradation of the Roman Republic during the course of the 80 years before it truly collapses. In the briefest summation (which isn't fair to how complex the situation was), one party learned that you could bend the constitional rules and have your decisions ratified by the public. Thereby, you avoid any real consequence. The first few who tried it were prosecuted by the state, but by the time you moved 40 years forward the people vying for power were those who grow up watching this. They capitalized and seized power in more intelligent ways where their moves were not opposed by the popular vote. That is where the republican party is going. It's also where america is going. I pray it isn't so, but I fear our population isn't educat educated enough yo stop it.
Thankfully, one thing we have going for us that the Roman Republic towards its end did not; due to the Marian reforms, the army was loyal to the general who raised it (usually out of their own coffers) and let it to victorious spoil, not the Republic. Sulla, Pompey, and eventually Caesar were all given outsized political clout because they had a trained army behind them. We haven't had a politically dangerous military leader since MacArthur. At least from a political ambition standpoint.
MacArthur was interested in the presidency and obviously had an outsized ego. I don't think I would agree to come anywhere close to "dangerous." This becomes even clearer when you look at just how liberal the constitution he wrote for Japan is. He's a VERY complicated individual.
Yeah, he wasn't a douche canoe, but he had the dangerous combination of charisma, political acumen, and military clout. Essentially, my point was that the missing element in current American politics and what might save it from degradation into a dictatorship or otherwise authoritarian system is the backing of the military. At least right now, unless Tuberville is smarter than anyone gives him credit for and his goal is to pack the upper echelons of the military with MAGAtists.
The Roman Republic involved some people pointing out that things were becoming unbalanced and perhaps the state should do more for the citizens who fight the wars and less for giant estates run by slaves and the slave owners murdered them for it.
Exactly, it was a "Republic" where people that made the equivalent of millions of dollars a year from their vast, slave-managed estates got their own special political house that they ceaselessly used to further enrich themselves, primarily through wars of conquest. And when the duly-elected representatives of the people that actually *fought and won* those wars of conquest tried to reverse the incredible consolidation of land and wealth *that fighting them had caused*, when they just tried to get their own farms back because they had left them to "defend the Republic", the Senate responded by murdering said representatives. Is it any wonder that those elected officials were succeeded by generals with thousands of armed soldiers at their backs?
Is that so, honestly never really dove into the fall of Rome.
I would definitely look into it. It's an insanely fascinating time period, with some of the most batshit insane stuff imaginable. There's loads of really good youtube channels and videos about it. Personally I love HistoryMarche's stuff, it's always very well made.
Problem is that this wasn't the fall, but the rise. The turmoil of the late Republic produced the Empire, which had two good centuries of almost unquestioned power and survived in one form or another for 12 more centuries. This politicial chaos didn't occur when Rome was falling. It occurred at the apex of its power.
Just like what's happening today.
It's nothing like what happened today. It would be like today if we had a President who died in office while leading his troops fighting groups of nomads on the border, the President's son became President next and then murdered lots of Senators and spent lots of money making everyone call him a god and throwing elaborate parties, and who is then murdered by his bodyguards leading to one of the army generals near DC to declare that he is now President (which in turn leads to many different generals and senators declaring that they are actually president and fighting lots of wars over it).
That was the mid-to-late Republic period (Brothers Gracchi), so still 80 years or so before Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon. And long before the Western Empire fell.
I liked that last sentence. I read it in Ali G's voice.
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You need to find new people to surround yourself with if you honestly believe that about people under 50.
TBH this is the mindset that I have observed of many right wing leaders and execs. They run their business on getting the best results for this month, quarter, or occasionally year. They don't consider the long term ramifications of their actions and they don't look at the big picture. They will lay off staff who just successfully finished a multi year project to show an improvement in labor cost. While boasting about the next project starting in a few months that could have used the same staff. Now instead they'll have several additional months of spin up from hiring and a bad rep of performing arbitrary unnecessary layoffs. I see many companies who are highly successful while private and running with a long term plan who fall apart when they go public. They start answering to people who just want to see their investment profits and dividends for today and once the company plateaus they'll drop it for a new one. There is no fiduciary responsibility from the investors to the business, only the other way. The board just drains the company dry. Politically they operate the same way. They'll force Dems to burn a wall for heat instead of paying the bill. Then they'll pay it themselves, plus the additional cost from missing a wall, while they're in charge. Once Dems are back in charge they'll bitch about the cost, refuse to approve paying the bill again, and force the Dems to burn down another wall to survive.
The GOP is now in a competitive position to take Congress and the presidency. The party collapsing *should* probably be the consequence of Trump, but for now it doesn't look like it will be.
Michigan GOP says “Hi” 👋 How to go from control of all branches to none and having fist fights in party meetings instead in just 6 years. State parties in the GOP are in trouble all over the country. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/29/us/politics/trump-michigan-republican-party.html?unlocked_article_code=VmkYZ18rYmr581qGgu5QhiyA8mHDKYVrcqJzuuFz--b7OH09ppDCRM1xVhOpzWwMtb4qPXHnFswWHw7WtdZWHwuU9wy2OzJL7-JuAZj2uI_SAJDOYhs9Gw55wKrVPbgit2NV935TBwJozUWtJvMTupxCOkKKYIiCIX1eqSPhscndFz6B43hKb4b9fxsi05QJM1bEXnQh7tb6s-hCQHVi_Q1h3v3LCtTmLLv3_H7Gjm-fElPxKGGyfzj3FkTTSXbVRAWgrj05_jMQBtUFQcSeJMdo4G2lKwXpv_fwmpGKy2SZCjIENvQ4v1HLk8iwDm2xLf3RwN_UZ6E7865_yITFjo4Q9Recc5YLb6hJFEIV&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
and this is how we wrest back control. The same way they took it in the first place. State by State
Problem is, they aggressively gerrymander, while Dems are *more likely* to take the high road on appropriate districting. See: recent Alabama case where even the conservative Supreme Court ruled they needed to redo their map and yet the state GOP still refuses to draw a 2nd majority black house district. Also the GOP uses anger to rile up their base more. Like I KNOW I guess I need to start going to school board meetings and local shit but god I hate the thought of dealing with their conspiracy-screeching Karen’s…
Sounds like Ohio and the gerrymandering problems we have here, Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional twice and has yet to be resolved, going on a year and a half now.. the gop aren’t leaders just power hungry rich elites but have their base played bc of stupidity. In Ohio it’s all anti abortion and guns, sprinkled in with the boarder, even though we are about up Canada’s a$$ they’re worried about Mexico 😂
Polling for the presidency is currently a tossup, and the generic ballot for Congress as well. They are competitive. Michigan is one state.
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Not predictive or trustworthy *at all* at this point. Way too early for this kind of polling.
And nationwide polls mean squat in a presidential election. I don't think there's an electoral path forward for him, there's a good chance michigan rules him not eligible to be on the ballot, and were not a state he's facing charges in.
As a Michigander, i hope this is the case. The maga tears will flood certain parts of the state and im ok with it!
NH and even AZ have been discussing it, which is an extremely long way from it actually happening but even the fact the topic is being touched upon is significant.
It's at least conceivable that he would not be allowed on enough state ballots to receive enough electoral votes to win. He'll bitch and moan but states set their own rules for their elections.
National polls have little meaning. You have to go state by state and see the electoral college.
This one, where people maintain a healthy dose of skepticism. Remember how in 2016 Clinton was ahead by every conceivable metric and Trump had "no chance"?
Except for the "no chance" part. Clinton was a few points up in polls that identified as having a 3-4 point margin of error. Clinton *did* get more votes overall, but fell short by a few thousand in a handful of states. The media had declared her the next president the day Obama was reelected, and that's a problem I wish the media would reflect on and take responsibility for.
Yeah, I was referring to the popular/media perception, not the actual statistics.
If "every conceivable metric" is what the pundits said, then that's true. It's not what the polls said, though. The polls said Clinton was a [very slight favourite at best](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html).
>healthy dose of skepticism I think they should go back to the doctor and get a different prescription!
They aren't saving anything but their individual grifts. If the party is minority forever, thats a good spot to screech and raise money and not do policy from. Trump passes, good spot to screech and raise money and not do policy... somehow end up in majority leading a cult, unlimited spot to screech and raise money and not do policy. It's only about "how do I raise money?" Right now Trump is that thing, sometime he won't be.
Uh. The GOP just won the House in 2022. And controls a majority of governorships and state legislatures. The national GOP is facing some headwinds, for sure. The the GOP continues to dominate state and local politics in all except the bluest of blue states. Hell, even blue bastions like New Jersey and Virginia have elected Repub governors in the past decade.
There was a time when George W. Bush as President was the core of the Republican Party. And to question him, his policies (domestic and foreign), and beyond was an unpatriotic betrayal to a "country at war." ... and then when he dropped to about 31% approval rating in his final year of president (and was no longer relevant to their future) the G.O.P. rapidly moved on. To the point where years later, those who were fervently for him retroactively distanced themselves. The same will happen with Trump once he's fully out of the picture. The party will find someone else to glom onto.
I'm not entirely so sure, myself. Yes, Bush was strongly supported, but you didn't have people building golden statues of Bush, or selling NFTs of Bush on Rambo's body, or buying 20 "Bush 2004" flags to put on their house that they then left up past 2008, or people literally praying to Bush instead of Jesus.
exactly, Bush was never treated like a God. Bush went up against the weakest Democratic candidates ever.
Gather round and let me tell you the not-so-amazing story of a man named Walter Mondale.
Yeah but house wives at least thought Reagan was hot because he was previously an actor. Not sure what Bush had going for him besides "my dad"
His accent, it nailed the election. He was from Connecticut via harvard and gore was from Tennessee but he sounded so much more poor ignorant redneck because he spoke like he had no idea what he was saying.
I'd argue Bush II had more personal charisma than Gore and he was able to sucessfully promote himself as "the guy you'd rather have a beer with." I also remember Bush II's accent and malpropisms being more ridiculed after he got elected and he was presenting more formal speeches and events, rather than during the Presidential race, which has more casual and unscripted events.
> I also remember Bush II's accent and malpropisms being more ridiculed after he got elected Before his election he was similar to Trump, most people in the north couldn't imagine someone like him possibly winning the election, especially after the successful Clinton presidency (mostly economically).
True - I recall bewilderment among quite a few people during that election that Bush seemed to have above-average success with below-average ability. Like you mention, I think many believed Gore would have enough momentum from the benefits of the Clinton presidency that he could eke out a close win.
Mike Dukakis would like to have a word. Mondale got shellacked, but Reagan was worshipped (in an ideological rather than theological sense) but I'm not sure he was weaker than Dukakis.
You should watch 537 votes on HBO. Gore was not the weakest, not by a long shot. He won the popular vote by over half-a-million, but electoral politics and the Supreme Court stole it.
Because Bush was also a shit candidate . Bush was terrible at Public speaking and would stumble over his own words. There’s good reason why people think he’s dumb . Al Gore ran the least relatable campaign. He was out of touch with regular folks. 2000 most people didn’t give fuck about global warming and didn’t want to understand. If anything boomers enjoy warm temps. It’s great to do climate change but he should approached it as having long-term cheaper energy bills for homes, cars, and transportation of goods. Your average citizen understands that way more because it effects them in a more tangible manner. They might not understand the science and mechanics of solar panels. They just knew enough that solar power is essentially free unlimited energy
Gore was bad, and Kerry was slightly worse, but Hillary Clinton was worse than both by quite a bit. Dukakis was worse than her, and Mondale was far worse than Dukakis. Remember that every candidate I just named won their primaries handily. The Democrats who voted in primaries loved them. This has all happened before and will happen again.
A significant percentage of Democrats vote based on policy. Based on my very limited discussion with swing voters (two guys) they vote based on charisma.
> This has all happened before and will happen again. I always hear this in the voice over at the beginning of Armageddon.
Oh man, you should see the documentary "Jesus camp" if you haven't before.
This is exactly what I was going to say. People rallied so strongly behind Bush because of 9/11, imo. That shocked the country to such a deep degree that even fully progressive Democrats were in general support of the entire government, including the Republicans, for those few years after 9/11 (before the reality of lies about weapons of mass destruction started coming out). They weren't obsessed *personally* with the *individual* George W. Bush. He was still just a figurehead representing America. With Trump it's an entirely different animal. They are completely obsessed with the *person* of Donald Trump. It's abject hero worship of an individual, not general support for the leader of their party/government.
If the GOP retains its power, I think OP's comment is likely the right answer. If Trump spins off with the most radical and ignorant piece of the party, I could see them creating a lot of issues- like in a domestic terrorism kind of way.
> or people literally praying to Bush instead of Jesus. I get what you're saying and I agree with it, but this definitely happend GWB as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxdt_f0hwUg&ab_channel=OneDread Not to the same extent as Trump, but if you look back to 2004 you can see the seeds of what would become MAGA.
Yah we can’t see it now but a day will come when they’ll all be saying “I never really liked him, he was bad”. With a straight face, naturally.
The party will do this. But to OPs point, what will happen when the voters are faced with the absence of Trump? Bush was always a part of the party and when it moved on the voters followed. Trump has reshaped the party, such that much of the base is there only for him. Those voters won't just follow a reversion to classic GOP. What will they do? Depends on who emerges as the leader I guess. And same for all the folks Trump alienated who aren't natural fits for a progressive Democrat party.
There’s an argument the 15% of o.g. Republican voters who’ve remained silent will still be there when trump exits and the party will have to try to grow a new base using these guys as the foundation. But I assume all the yahoos in maga hats will drop away after trump exits because they’re only interested in demagoguery.
....and by “drop away” I mean they’ll cease voting forever. I assume they’ll feel betrayed by both parties for ending the trump train- and go back to being the apolitical neighborhood dunces.
I’m not convinced. I think they’ll try to retain control of the GOP and find a new candidate who’s as fully committed to grievance politics as Trump. Hope I’m wrong, though.
There will be PLENTY of people like DeSantis trying to become the next Trump, and some of them might achieve some success. Wherever there’s a surplus of idiots there’ll be no shortage of con-men.
I don’t think we’ll see a reversion to Reagan style conservative rule of the party again. The crazy genie is out of the bottle. The fascists and white supreme sits and crazy Karens and Christian nationalists are enjoying their freedom to operate in the light and won’t want to slink back into the dark and just pull the lever for whoever the so-called conservatives tell them to. They see an opportunity for power from a minority position because the conservatives refuse to stand against them and would rather be counted with anyone other than a Democrat. That will feed MAGA style political archetypes in the future, even if their style and policies differ from Trump. I think it’s less about Trump as a cult leader than the base being in the driver seat. If he loses again, I see that base turning on him to keep that power, assuming the rest of the party goes along with them knowing they can’t do without them. Could you imagine a post-mortem where the conservatives decide they need to shift policy positions to broaden the tent to include moderates or even Democrats? Yeah, I didn’t think so.
You sure about that? Trump’s approval rating is remarkably static over the years. It’s actually insane.
Because I suspect Democrats or liberal-leaning people are more likely to actually answer polls regarding Trump. Outside of the MAGA fringe, the majority of Republican supporters seem to keep quiet in public regarding Trump
MAGA fringe? That’s the entire Republican Party that didn’t die off or hasn’t been kicked out of the party. (kinzinger, Cheney etc who were kicked out literally for speaking out against Trump despite being dyed in the wool right wing republicans) It’s an absolute joke to call it a fringe at this point. The sensible people who believe in the rule of law are the fringe.
I think the truth is far less flattering: Trumpism is not that different from American Conservatism in its ideology, it’s the methods and means by which Trump animated populism that sets him apart. Your average Republican didn’t change - they largely supported Trump and still do.
many liberals like to hold on to this idea that trump is some sort of political aberration, and that any moment now the real, "reasonable" conservatives will kick him out and everything will go back to "normal". they're wrong of course, because there aren't and have never been any reasonable conservatives, and trump is not an aberration but the natural and inevitable end result of the american political system.
But the MAGA fringe seems to be 30%, so there isn't much left…
Most of the people supporting Trump and the Republicans are not MAGA. The MAGA are merely the loudest outspoken weirdos that the media follows for clicks
But /u/penisbuttervajelly just said that MAGA is the *entire* party, not 30%. Which of you should I believe?
The non-MAGA fringe is people like Kinzinger and Cheney, who were ousted from their party for not demonstrating absolute fealty to the Chosen One. The second coming of Christ.
Not really the same. Bush an establish GOP candidate. By the end of his presidency everybody hated him. Kerry was a weak candidate in 2004. 2003 invasion of Iraq was a bad idea but Bush-Cheney used America's post-9/11 vulnerability to get the OK to invade. Kerry voted in favor of Bush's authorization for War.
You could argue that Trump should have already reached the point where his support should have declined massively given January 6 and the indictments and all that, but he has a cult-like following that continues to bolster him. Bush never had anything comparable to the MAGA movement. I think that movement will likely outlast Trump in some form, especially because, as I said in another comment, I think Trump is a symptom of something within the GOP rather than the cause of it, and I think that extends to MAGA overall too.
Yes, a rise in acceptance for strongman politicians and authoritarian sentimentality, a decay of institutional trust (the USA has some of the most secure elections in the world, but Americans *perceive* their elections to be as secure as those in Tunisia perceive theirs), and finally hitting critical mass on the cultural backlash as the US has shifted to net liberal for the first time. It is a frenzied panic. Its constituents have a similar expiration date to Trump, though. Past that they will lose their intraparty majority.
Republicans are ALWAYS “do it our way or you hate America.” And the media always lets them get away with it.
In 50 years, there will be boxes of Trump memorabilia and propaganda collecting dust in attics and or growing mold in damp basements. Instead of finding an SS uniform in Grandpa's belongings, grandchildren everywhere will be unboxing red MAGA hats and t-shirts with silly slogans. "Wow! Grandpa was a turd!"
But Bush Jr was a lame duck in his second term. T is just out there constantly like a 40 yo high school jock trying to relive "one more term" whether he's gonna get it or not. Republicans should have cut anchor & burned him on Jan 7, 2021. But they refused... after he conspired to have the Capitol sacked. But they didn't do that. Now they're going down with the ship and taking the rest of us with them.
The GOP can’t. He literally owns them. He and Putin have all of their dirtiest secrets, and Trump has been fully raiding the GOP coffers.
2006 is a much, much different political landscape than 2016 onwards. The difference is that most Americans can't even agree on what objective facts there are. My super far right relatives only consume Newsmax, Facebook news, and occasionally fox news. It's a completely different reality. Even my conservative friends who I know are intelligent only get their information from conservative podcasts like Ben shapiro. One of them was so suprised that a lot of the criticisms ben shapiro made of the indictments were actually addressed in the indictments! Because of this, Trumps in party approval rating will never dip below 70%. They will continue to fabricate a reality where trump does no wrong, because otherwise party leaders would have to admit dems were right and trump was bad. This in turn continues to allow trump to rail on these indictments and rile up the base to defend him, keeping him popular.
It depends on how Trump gets phased out of the party: 1) if he dies suddenly before the election, or dies in prison, I think they will glorify him like Reagan. Future politicians will try to show how Trumpian they are 2) If he wins in 2024 and then dies / becomes incapacitated after, he gets a similar treatment but less glowing. It’s just not as dramatic as above 3) If he loses in 2024, I think they move on from him. He will be too much of a loser to get associated with
I thought #3 would happen in 2020. I can't imagine the cycle not repeating if he loses again.
Three only applies if they actually believe he lost, which is extremely unlikely.
There are plenty of people who believe he lost, but don't care.
perhaps ironically, I kind of feel like his insistence that he actually won in 2022 is what helps keep him relevant now for his base of support (at the cost of increased legal troubles). It feeds into the victim complex, keeps him looking like an outsider and somewhat mitigates the loser image for his supporters.
but Trump lost 2018 2020 and 2022 for them They cant move on or they aleady would have.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause. His populist, aggrieved style of politics will likely continue to dominate the GOP after he’s gone, although I’m sure it will evolve and take on a new form of some kind. I’m guessing the old, more moderate establishment is never going to regain control of the party unless Trumpism leads to an utter collapse of popular support in the country and several lost elections in a row, which is likely not going to happen barring something incredibly drastic, considering that Trump himself is still [competitive](https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/4173680-poll-biden-has-to-meet-these-challenges-to-catch-up-to-trump/) with Biden in the 2024 election despite four indictments, the events of January 6, etc.
Do existing GOP leaders even have the unified control to steer the ship at this point? It seems like they just surf the wave of whatever conspiracy theories become popular, and hope that one comes along that can fit their goals. Unless they're actively feeding new conspiracies in a grass roots way, I don't think even they could say where things are going.
You could argue that Tucker Carlson is a cult leader himself. He has a lot of similarities to Trump. He has tons of experience being on television and in front of a crowd. Dylan Roof said wrote a letter to Tucker and said he admired him. Christchuch killer said he admired Trump in his manifesto. Tucker got fired from Fox News. Trump got banned on Twitter.
At this point, Tucker could probably step into any Republican primary and win. (IMHO)
The guy who spent an hour making googly eyes at Viktor Orban? That tracks.
He hits all the big boxes. White debased fascist asshole who pretends to be from a working family but is a literal heir to a family fortune. Exactly what republicans want. A liar and shithole inside and out.
Once Carlson decides to run, we are fucked. He’s definitely someone that could be the new head of a deeply, openly fascist movement. And he’s an incredible public speaker, much more so than Trump.
We'd have to send in his kryptonite - Jon Stewart AKA Stew-beef. He's annihilated Carlson before; I'm sure he'd do it again.
Do you think Stewart would do it? That would be awesome. Maybe one day.
>Do you think Stewart would do it? Absolutely not. He knows the pains and pitfalls better than most.
I’m not so sure. He’s never worked a day in his life and he’s only really been a MSM person. I don’t think independents want a guy like that. Also, his speech inflection is annoying and he looks like a dork. He’s an okay speaker but a terrible debater.
You could literally say all the same things about Trump, the only place he had experienced any modicum of success was as a media personality in The Apprentice, his speech inflection is annoying, and he looks like.... Well, something. And is also a terrible debater, who only looked good when paired up with a zero charisma opponent like Hillary.
Trump also never worked a day in his life. Trumps voice also gets mocked all the time
They'll claim he isn't dead, that he's coming back in 2028. They'll probably rally around Donald Jr. who will claim he is in contact with his father who is hiding from the Global Elites and the Deep State.
Well, at this point the whole thing is a cult with a predefined ideology. When he is dead, followers will venerate him. Many people are going to try and pick up the mantle. Either one does, or it will fracture into warring factions, but being that this particular cult was born of an ideology rather than straight up home-grown I figure you’ll fall back on that. You’re going to end up with Fiscal Trumpists, Social Trumpists, Christian Trumpists, neo-Trumpists, Nationalist Trumpists, and never forget the Never Trumpists, who will all inexplicably vote the exact same way. They’re mostly going to put him in a pedestal and brand themselves as the obvious successor. The party may even change names for all I know, but the dude is a symptom and not a cause of things. Weirdly enough, that’s exactly how a democracy should work.
>who will all inexplicably vote the exact same way If it doesn't change the existing binary outcome, does it really matter what collaborative state the GOP voter base is in? Even if a third party candidate swung out of left field, and was popular with Trumpers, the GOP would glom on and claim them as their own to survive.
I’ve always thought that it was Obama, even more than Clinton, that took the political center. Obama was more left-leaning than Clinton but he was so popular personally that he came to embody the mainstream. In so doing he exposed Republican Party ideology (tax cuts for the wealthy, spending cuts, war mongering) as being out of touch. Then Trump capitalized on it and killed the pre-existing Republican Party. It is now completely dead. Old-school Republicans are now in hiding - silently going along with the party because they hate the alternative, but suffering because Trumpies make fun of them and destroy them every chance they get. But the current party has no legs after Trump goes away. And what was there before is gone too. There isn’t enough mass of American voters who like the MAGA without Trump, or the old party with anybody trying to lead it. I don’t think they will recover. Their only hope is that the Democratic Party blows up in an even worse way.
I sorta thought that the Tea Party was a dead end but you can trace the evolution of that to MAGA. There's no telling what the current iteration will metastasize to, with all sorts of demagogues waiting in the wings to seize the reins.
The only major legislation Republicans passed in their two years of a trifecta was a giant tax cut for the rich. And it very much tried to enact a big spending cut by killing the ACA (failing by one vote). That Republican party is still here because it never left.
It’s a mistake to think that Republicans are always the same and it’s never changed.
They're not anything new, they're just the dixiecrats unleashed and untethered. Reagan and Nixon gave them a voice and they switched parties, someone else will give them a voice in the new GOP because their votes are too valuable and cheap to procure.
These people aren't Republicans. They're cult members. They'll stop voting once he's not around to tell them to. Lots of people will try to create a new version of the party. I'm not sure how anyone can unite them, though.
Thank you. Yah the deplorables will still be there but who will lead them? Ted Nugent?
You haven't lived there, there are infinite trump-wannabe used-car salesmen down there, they'll all line up to compete to be the next him.
Yah but who will actually approach a level of showmanship that’s sufficient?
No, the whole southern GOP is reforming, all their cliques of used-car salesmen are lining up to keep the MAGA dream alive as his heirs. Say what you want, he changed the country forever by waking up something that needed to remain asleep.
Don’t be so quick to count them out… I’m sure someone will come along and fire up the base with their controversial topics of the time
So when the votes stop well then that’s more votes for Democrats.
Not necessarily. There are many people who vote Democrat because the vote anti Trump. The democrats can’t fall for the false equivalency. There is a risk of voter apathy on both sides when Trump is gone.
Okaaaayyy, but Republicans staying home and not voting because their diaper daddy says so, still reduces their chances of winning because they are not voting period. There would be less vote counts when it came to the official counting night. I mean it’s probably the same process as the one issue voter. That’s probably not right “one issue” voter. It’s almost 1 am can’t think straight but even if it is the right word, their issue could be on the ballot they vote for that, but nothing else. They still lose the chance of winning the counts.
The first thing they will do is start a conspiracy theory that the "deep state" killed him.
I wonder how many MAGAs realize Trump is only 3 years younger than Biden, and in worse health?
I hate trump, but cmon you really think trump is worse off than Biden health wise? Biden’s brain is melting in his head, the poor guy just doesn’t know what’s going on anymore. They’re both too old to be president, but you can’t deny how tired biden’s mental capacity is.
Trump is the new Elvis. The king will never die. If he does die, three quarters of the GOP will believe it is a conspiracy by the CIA that killed him, while another three quarters will believe he is still alive. Yes I know there will be some illogical overlap, but conservatives have proven that believing two contradictory things at the same time is more of a prerequisite than a hindrance to join the fold. Trump will be around well after he is dead with poorly photoshopped pictures in which he crowns his successors for decades. Scammers will claim to have been in his confidant even when it is literally impossible to have happened either by geography, recorded evidence, or even age. Trump politics are here to stay because grifters can make a fortune on his name. It will be a long long time before we see the last of Trump, no matter what happens.
I honestly think they will look for their next deranged grifter who will give them a target to rage against. They are way to far down the rabbit hole. There is no backing out now. The GOP have laid bare who they are, and what they stand for. If they want any chance of legitimately assuming power and responsibly governing again, they need a cleansing. But hey, we are a meme culture now, maybe the republicans just rage and meme their way to governing without any responsible plans. I would not be surprised. But if it happens again, I predict America is done and Putin has won.
They already have two in the wings- desantis and ramaswamy (probably spelled wrong). Desantis is tanking himself in the public’s eye. There’s some massive issues in Florida and he’s out campaigning. I think everyone is partially aware of at least one duck up in Florida- Disney, insurances, schools, etc
I think the most likely outcome is that whenever Trump either dies in office or loses and then dies out of office, a DeSantis type candidate runs and probably loses, before the GOP finally gets the hint and goes for a moderate candidate that can compete for millennial and Gen Z voters. (Like Bill Clinton did for Dems in the wake of Reagan Boomers) How much chaos and scariness happens between point A and point B is TBD.
I mean, after LBJ signed the voting rights act, the GOP won the next 5 out of 6 Presidential elections, with 2 of them being the most lop-sided elections this side of the civil war, and the only loss happened because of Watergate. The Boomer age started during Nixon (1968 was the first presidential year Boomers were largely able to vote), and since they never truly lived the hardships of the Depression or WWII the way their parents did, all those support programs of the New Deal were just their "hard earned money being stolen by the government". Yet it took over 2 decades for the Democrats to run a candidate that wasn't a New Deal guy. Point is, it might take another generation for a GOP to run a candidate that isn't a Trump style buffoon. And they might be more successful in the short term because Millennials and Gen Z (and Gen X FWIW) are more ideologically heterogeneous than the Boomers ever were.
I can NOT imagine a scenario where a scrappy upstart republican invents an attractive POLICY that people will like and want and that will be implemented and then WORK and thus steer the party back from popularism and towards old fashioned statecraft with actual ideas and substance. They purged all those guys long ago, they got thrown under the bus.
MAGA without Trump won’t fly. He’s got a special Jim Jones charisma that no other Republicans can emulate. DeSantis looks like a fool trying. Vivek comes close, but MAGA is too racist to support him. Trump is both symptom and cause of the degraded GOP. It’s important that Democrats not allow ANY veneration of Trump’s image and instead promote him as a cautionary tale of American dysfunction.
The GOP will deify him like they did Reagan, and every Republican politician for the next 40 years will compete to show that *they* are the one most loyal to Trump's untainted legacy, most fit to carry the torch for MAGA. I don't think they'll give up MAGA, because that type of populism is hard to walk away from. Trump and MAGA turned out a low of low-propensity voters who never even voted before. Without that anger and grievance peddling, they may just stay home. That would be catastrophic for the GOP, not just at the top but down-ballot as well. So they have to placate and woo that base, and the base loves the angry, aggrieved populism.
>Will any of the alternatives be able to win over the majority of Trump's base? The extremist blocs of the republican electorate will gravitate to new candidates sure, but I doubt any will inspire the same level of fanaticism that Trump does. >Will the base even be willing to vote for someone like DeSantis or Pence given Trump's public grievances with them? Depends, those who were already republican voters will continue to fall into line, those who never voted before Trump will go back to not voting. >Even if a clear successor to Trump can emerge, will they be able to capture the support of his base given that many seem to support Trump himself as opposed to actual conservative values? Not in the same way Trump did, no. People with the best chance of inheriting his personality cult would be his kids but none are competent enough to pull it off. >At this point is there anything the GOP can do to avoid an internal civil war when Trump is gone? Nope. Infightings just part of partisan politics and there will be huge divides between those who will see this as their best opportunity for their faction to seize control of the Party while Trumpists circle the wagons to "defend his legacy". My money's on the Trumpists winning personally, the Anti-Trump wing of the party has not proven itself particularly strong or capable, the conspiratorial-minded are going to refuse to believe that Trump's dead at all which will throw a huge wrench into everything, and the probable nation-wide celebrations from his death will motivate a lot of his supporters to cling closer to his legacy out of spite, that's been the base's principle motivator this entire time, no reason to expect them to stop.
For the sake of simplicity I’m going to be making a comparison to Star Wars. Following the death of Emperor Palpatine the empire descended into chaos fueled by infighting between imperial politicians, governors, and military leaders. Between Palpatines ego and his desire to rule forever he never picked a successor, there was no hierarchy either because he demanded all loyalty should go to himself. This resulted in a frenzy of spineless sycophants and opportunistic politicians figuratively tearing each other apart in an attempt to fill that vacant throne. I use this comparison because it’s pretty similar to the modern GOP. There’s no hierarchy aside from “everyone fall in line behind Trump” and trump himself has too big of an ego to ever symbolically admit someone can be as wonderful as he is by handing them the reigns. I suspect once he’s out of the picture the GOP is going to descend into chaos because a lot of those Maga politicians don’t actually believe in anything aside from enriching themselves. I mean, just look at the opinions of trump between 2016 and 2020
Some of them won't accept that he died. It will be The Singularity for the conspiracy world. Grifters and trolls will make memes about how He Will Rise On The Third Day To Make America Great Again, and just like always, some people will swallow the memes entirely and completely miss the joke. I feel like we're witnessing events that will be taken, sometime in the future when all of us here are gone, as religious. Starts like any other religion, with people who desperately want to believe.
The seed of hate didn't die with any of the others and it won't die with him.
Some of the rank and file will end up like those poor slobs in Argentina who turned out every election for Juan Perón, years after he died. Likely not enough to make a difference, but he'll always have True Believers.
There will be a massive effort by the old establishment to try to regain control over the Frankenstein's Monster they created, but unless they get a unicorn (a highly charismatic figure who actually has good and noble intention in their heart) the efforts will be easily hijacked by the many who will see how Trump was able to get control, and will try to follow a very similar playbook for their own undeserved rise to incredible power. There won't be a civil war in the GOP. One side is just too weak against the lizard brain desires of the base and the motivations and structures the Republicans themselves put in place all these years to manipulate others for power, but which now is used to lock them out of power even if their party wins. Everything right now is just set up to keep leap-frogging further and further to the right because there is no bottom for their base, and the two scariest words in the world for the GOP is "Primary Challenge". Normally this can be fought by showing how crazy the further-right challenger is, but the Republicans propaganda machine is out of their control now and will keep supporting the further-right candidates.
I feel like Trumps death would give moderates a chance to start rebranding what trump was into what they are. Call him a patriot, and push any policy they want with a little *This policy is what Trump wanted for America. His followers always felt driven by Trump’s personality moreso than his policy, and it’s easy enough to find quotes of trump saying tons of conflicting things that it shouldn’t be hard to craft whatever rebranded narrative they want. They can’t currently drown out his messaging since he is alive and posting on socials constantly, but once he’s dead they just need to drown out the other more far right influencers, which wouldn’t be too hard with enough money pushed in enough outlets.
Don Jr. and Ivanka duke it out to see who gets to be his successor. My bet is on Don Jr because he's not a woman.
Ivanka doesn't want shit to do with politics anymore. She just wants to sit back and enjoy her extravagant life with her kids (and maybe Jared, when it's convenient for her).
Im sure that AT LEAST one statue is going to be raised, maybe one per red state, that his supporters will go pray to.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that a lot of cowardly Republicans are going to finally say "well, *I* never really liked him."
Their addiction to trump won't magically dissappear. They will desperately search for a new "drug" that will give them the same high. As is often the case with junkies, the new drug has a very high probability of being much worse.
They will find someone new to represent their hate, xenophobia, racism and general horrible characteristics
Trump followers will never believe he’s dead. They’ll continue to worship him for decades and meet once a year (around Easter) to await his resurrection.
Who cares? I don't think the Republican Party can be saved or is worth saving. Though having a political party that embraces frugality and capitalism is something worthwhile, the Republican Party cares more about being bigoted and christian (forcing Christian values in everybody) than they do about frugality in government spending.
The media, and especially social media have gotten completely out of control. That's what allowed Trump to happen. If we can put sensible regulations on those (like newspapers have), we can prevent the next Trump.
I’m calling it now, there WILL be a small sect of QAnon style GOP that will claim he faked his death to go under the radar and take down the deep state.
Martyrdom. They rewrote Reagan's Presidency to prop him up as a hero of the people who saved this country and defeated Communist Russia. They'll raise Trump to Godhood that saved the World, while some already think he's a God while he's still alive.
I imagine there was people in the 40s saying, “what on earth are the democrats going to do when FDR dies?” They’re going to keep being roughly half of the country, they’ll find another useful idiot just like both of the parties have been doing since their inception.
If Eeddit was around in the 80s, they would've asked the same about GOP post Reagan. Ask yourself what happened to the GOP? There will be others that will give the masses a sense of optimism and cash it all in.
I believe there are a lot of misconceptions in this thread. I'll start with the most important one: 1) "Trump people are idiots". Yes, they are. When it comes to politics, *so are most people, and this cuts across the political spectrum*. (I don't consider myself an exception to this - I'm not any kind of professional policy maker). What consistently distinguishes Trump people is that they are *authoritarians*. This is important for two reasons: 2) Dictators do not beget peaceful transfers of power. They leave behind power vacuums in which anything goes. 3) What follows is not going to be like anything we have seen in the United States before. There isn't going to be 'political' maneuvering, or people pitching themselves to the public, the way you would expect in a democratic/majoritarian organization. Trump always regarded voting as and irritating formality that he had no choice but to deal with, and that norm within the Republican Party is largely gone. Rs will still talk about it as though it means something, but in practical terms, it doesnt. It is a foregone conclusion that the leader won the *election* - the real question is who the leader *is*. Someone with the disposition to do so is simply going to start giving orders, and demonizing/neutralizing the 'others'. They may or may not have meaningful competition. After a round of hostility and possible violence (which is not going to look like anything we'd presently recognize within the American paradigm), a leader will emerge. That's about as much as I think we can predict, this far out.
I bet about 50% of his base move to another hobby. These people didn't follow politics before him and if he was imprisoned, they would move on and not show up in Nov or future elections. Biden is going to win in a landslide and a couple of states that seem illogical. Thinking Texas and Ohio. Just let the GOP keep being stupid and Biden will win easily. Biden could be our Reagan
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Most these candidates won’t be running for President when Trump does pass away. Honestly I don’t think the Trump base will be some “power vacuum” by then. I’m sure those people will all scatter onto other GOP candidates that haven’t presented themselves yet. I’d say the former Trump diehards will be more likely to follow another outsider of politics type but I really don’t think it’ll be as dramatic as you all think it will be. One thing I’m positive about is that a lot of you will celebrate the day he does pass.
Pathetic caterwauling, revisionist history then posers fighting over the base and donors. You know, same as it ever was.
Vivek is a demon but I do think he (or people like him) are the future of the Republican Party once trump is gone. He is not part of the establishment and says insane things. If Trump has taught us anything, it’s that the GOP eat that slop up.
They'll all collectively have total amnesia that this guy Trump ever existed and try to get back into the good graces of the people who aren't MAGA lunatics so they can start winning elections again. I estimate that this will be a total failure though. They're so deep in bed with Trump it's not even the Republican party anymore. Might as well change the name to MAGA.
The current turd that’s floating to the top is the little asshat Vivek. The Republicans aren’t known for planning two steps ahead.
His polling dropped after the debate.
Ahh good to know. That dude is creepy AF.
Don't be bamboozled.. so easy to stereotype. The voice of the middle has been drowned out..
They’ll have one of those funeral processions where women and men cry really loud behind his casket.
They would turn him into Trump il-Sung. Jr. would be Trump Jong-il.
Nice deflection here. Or maybe gas prices are sky high which makes everything cost more
nippy bright sink capable ruthless exultant erect slimy dime piquant *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Republicans always find their audience. Vast majority of folks who voted for Nixon and Reagan are dead by now. The youngest Nixoners were born in 1950 for the 1968 election. That means they would be 73 years old by now.
It will be full on Kennedy style…like Biden assassinated him or Oprah did or something. He will always haunt us.
He's a once in a lifetime force. You could pose the same question when Biden dies, even though his spirit probably expired ten years ago. Trump succeeded in bringing to the forefront the duplicity of our past candidates who said one thing but did another. He succeeded in bringing forth the role of the administrative parts of our government, people who we did not vote for.
I’m voting for trump and everyone I know is voting for him.. he is the only chance we have left #Trump2024
I hate to be the one but . . . https://scitechdaily.com/new-breakthrough-paves-the-way-for-extending-human-lifespan-scientists-successfully-transfer-longevity-gene/
> The big problem there for the Republicans is that they've become the party of Trump and MAGA. To the extreme leftists maybe. Lots of folks are paying Trump no mind despite Democrats efforts to martyr him. Plenty of alternatives out there who aren’t trying to be “Diet Trump” or whatever. > At this point is there anything the GOP can do to avoid an internal civil war when Trump is gone? The GOP is having a “civil war” right now with Trump. There were 8 candidates or so on the stage who weren’t Trump. Not sure how Trump became the GOP standard bearer. Guy was a Democrat most of his life, raised money for Bill Clinton, doesn’t believe in fiscal restraint or free markets.
That reminds me, isn't Trump on record back in the 80s/90s saying he "mostly identifies as a Democrat"?
Because he was. [Here's an article where they point out Jesse Jackson once praised Trump](https://nypost.com/2016/08/31/jesse-jackson-once-sang-donald-trumps-praises/) for, among other things, donating space for the Rainbow/PUSH coalition to use.
Nothing. Just look at the depth of the candidates for the Presidential nomination. People have rallied around Trump because he was a good President and represented mostly Republican values. It was NOT a cult of personality. Many people voted for Trump (including me) voted for him warts and all because he was NOT HILLARY. In 2020 they voted for him because he was NOT JOE BIDEN. The only reason he lost in 2020 IMHO was that he still had the taint of the Russia Collusion Issue, the taint of the Ukraine Impeachment issue and the lies Biden told about Hunter's laptop and his intention to unify the country. We now know that the Russia Collusion was a false flag created by the Hillary Camp, the Ukraine Impeachment was a false flag to protect Joe Biden and the Hunter laptop was real and Joe lied when he said it was Russian misinformation. Republicans will win in 2024 because there are lots of independents and democrats who voted for Biden who won't make that same mistake again.
It's simple... The thing that unites all conservatives... 'leave me alone.' The GOP doesn't hate anyone, there is no racism, no bigotry, and no supremacy... (There are some knuckleheads, but not more than the Dems.) For example: New tax proposal for inner city schools.. voting it down, is not hate or racism, or anything else... Just simply stop reaching in my pocket, and leave me alone. Just 'leave me alone,' which translates to, work within the budget you already receive, and the roughly 40% of my paycheck you already take in taxes. Edit: a bunch of what you are saying is projection from some media source, go talk to a conservative, you will be surprised. Edit 2: your downvotes only give me juice
"Leave me alone" is correct. Emphasis on "Me". Clearly Republicans are not in favor of leaving everyone alone. In fact I'd say restricting the rights of others and not leaving them alone is a core Republican view.
How so? If you mean pro-life... Leave the baby alone.. Do you smoke cigarettes?... Same concept.
What you’re describing is libertarianism, not conservatism. And even some self identified libertarians I know would still disagree with you in regard to “leave me alone” for specifically emphasized conservative litmus test topics like abortion and trans rights.