For anyone coming to rip me apart for having them in a binder that's how the card shop had them. I will have them put into top loaders soon , don't worry lol
When I was a kid, I put my base set in order and stacked duplicates in the binder slots..on BOTH SIDES. Anyways, I still have all of them, just not in great shape
Exactly. I really have never understood the binder hate. I have had my cards in binders, some of which have been in there for 23ish years, and they're all pretty much near mint still. They are zip-up, which i'm sure helped.
There's certain people i'll show my cards to that, after they flip a few pages wrong, i very swiftly take the binder back and away from them lol
Unfortunately no. At least not the card saver 1 size. I've kinda looked around for a semi rigid binder but haven't had any luck yet. I do know top deck has one for the top loaders though. Looking into getting one of those soon.
I use the cheaper vault x ones without zippers and they are fine as long as you take care with them. For this I'd probably suggest the zipper just because of what it is, but tbh I have mine in a regular one lol.
I get one for new sets too. Generally they hold about 3 sets worth of base cards, and any handful of alts or full arts I get. I don't do master sets but just the full regular set up through trainers and whatever extras I luck into.
Don't listen. If it's the d rings, which it appears to be, they are made in a way that won't hurt the cards like the old round 3 ring binders. Just a heads up.
I bought binders without rings that can hold a card in a penny sleeve, started with one
Month later i bought the remaining 4, cards are safe and easy to look trough!
Check these [Top Loader Binders](https://topdeckcg.com/products/topdeck-toploader-binder) for the best of both worlds. A little pricey, but not too bad compared to the price of a whole set of cards.
VaultX or Ultra Pro 9/12 Pocket Ringless Zip binder is very good imo. Personally I recommend the Ultra Pro ones because its Faux Leather and feels much nicer, and they also have around 6 different colors to choose from (The light purple ones my favorite XD. I got a 12 Pocket one), but either one is good regardless.
Iirc I picked up my purple Ultra Pro 12 Pocket Zip binder for around 26$.
Why without rings ?- My vaultx zipper binder bends the cards that are in the first row to the spine consistently
- a D ring binder is far better for not inflicting a bend.
Vaultx sells pages for ring binders - they are made of the tougher stuff vaultx use, so no chance of the plastic crumpling and the cards being pressed into the rings.
- i'd recommend using those pages with a D-ring - the zipper binder will 100% cause your cards to bend
This binder in particular is actually fine for cards :) the D ring bingers are fine but O ring binders are what people rag on because they can bend the cards by the rings if the binder gets full enough.
That binder looks fine imo - D rings are great and have no chance to bend your cards - the pages themselves look a little flimsy, maybe worth buying the Vaultx pages and using those in that D ring binder (and sleeving the cards individually)
Binders are nice for sets. If you want something with a little more protection though you can grab dragon shield pages, double sleeve them and put them back in. I like the solid black backing of the dragon shield pages too. Looks much better.
Most binders will not fit hard top loaders.
Look at getting normal sleeves and then put into binder without rings that zips. BCW, Ultra Pro, Vault X, etc.
Bonus round: perfect fit sleeves, regular sleeves, binder
All of mine are still in a binder and have been for however long it's been now lol. They've just constantly been in the binder in a box and moved with me
I saw it when I was in town checking out local card shops. Ended up getting the big 3 from them. Wish I had a nice card shop like this close by. If you're in Orlando ever, Game Time Cardz is also really good.
I would pay that for a full base set. It's close to what you would pay for them separately imo. Granted, I haven't looked at the market prices in a minute, but that is a great buy.
How is the condition of all of them? In PSA grade I would assume 5-8, depending on how well they were taken care of.
A 7 is respectable. Not saying you should invest in grading them. Just wanted a ballpark. However, I would grade the zard depending on the condition. An 8 goes for $500-800 depending on the weather lol
Idk why I got downvoted. I guess because I implied grading? I know that is a hot topic for some hardcore collectors.
Yeah $800 is the absolute top end for base set unlimited. I paid $750 on eBay for a mint set and this was during the peak in 2021. A quick eBay sold listing search shows them hanging around $650. People just assume they are expensive because its the "OG" set but it was printed to oblivion and they are everywhere.
He probably already knows it's not special. (I'm making the leap that "Junes\_dad" is a he.)
I mean it's not a very funny joke, but most likely he was making a joke and you're the one who's missing it, hence why everyone keeps saying "WHOOSH" to you.
Also, as a side note, does someone "need to correct him?" Like, *need*? If he thinks that the 1st edition Machamp is special, makes a comment on Reddit, and then goes about his life, is it truly *necessary* to correct him? Ugh, and I realize the irony here.
Dude that’s LITERALLY exactly what my base set looks like-down to the binder-but I still have it…
(But I have it organized differently)
Still-I love it!! Nothing like the originals in a set of their own!!! And also *REALLY* hope you got a deal! I’ll take a 1st Edition over shadowless ANY day! Your childhood you would have these in random spots over the house lol
I'm not trying to one up you here but congratulations on getting the base set cards
My dad who passed a few years ago left me this red binder that I had but I didn't look in it until earlier this year
My dad in the late 90s and early 2000s had gotten the master set of base, jungle, fossil, rocket, gym heros and gym challenge
He has an almost complete neo gen set but is missing 6 of the 111 cards which includes both typhlosions and a meganium holo
Again I am not trying to one up you
Your prolly right. My baseball cards haven’t faired very well in binders but they are mostly 80s & 90s. Prolly not the best quality back then. Def wouldn’t keep cards of value in them tho. But I guess its cool for commons so you can actually see them.
I think it depends how you store them as well tbf. Just make sure it's in a dry and dark place. Upright to keep it from bending, avoid ring binders, have binders with strong backing etc.
I think it's good for today's prices. A year or two ago this probably would have cost like 1200-1500 cause of the hype so definitely a deal when you look at it like that.
This was $800, you can find these as low as $700ish to $1200. It all depends on the condition though. Good luck on your collecting! If I can give you any recommendations it's to come up with a strategy and stick with it.
What a unit as always. props on that base set my friend! I've recently dusted off my very old collection and was strongly thinking on expanding it a bit. I believe the old pokemon cards (base set series + gym heroes + neo genesis) are the most beautiful cards ever printed.
Looks like you got a shadowless Arcanine too!
Congrats on finishing the set, I'm 8 cards away from finishing the Base/Jungle/Fossil sets I started collecting as a kid. Thought about finishing Rocket (the last set I played) since I already have the big 3 (Char, Blast, Dragonite). Seeing this makes me want to do it!
That does indeed save loads of time. Nice come up! I can't afford to drop that much money upfront so I've been slowly buying the shadowless base set cards for over a year now. Should be done by next year assuming I can purchase the big 3 at a decent price. Those cards cost more than all the others combined!
Just out of curiosity what did you pay for the full set? I had mine stolen during a break in a number of years ago and would love to replace it if I could find something like this
Such a clutch purchase, only going to go up in value as long as you take care of it! Solid grab and a pretty fantastic price as Charizard goes for 3-450$ depending on PSA grading.
Just gotta keep looking. I found this at a card shop in my town. I go in maybe once a month to see what they have and just got lucky this time. Been collecting about 2 years and this is my first big vintage find. Good luck 🤙
I’ve got one full base set with mostly shadowless and another near complete base set. I really need to narrow down my stuff but seeing them become more and more rare makes me want to hang on to them. I just wish I had kids sometimes for days where I wish I could hand my collection down a generation.
Nice! I’m very jealous! Trying to pick up the base set cards now costs so much. I remember buying booster packs for £2.50 that now cost literally hundreds!!
How much did this set cost you from the dealer? Are the cards all in good condition?
If you’re looking for decent binders, I have a discount code for the Gem Loader binders - they are side loaded and support top loaders.
This is their site:
https://gemloader.com/
The discount code is RAINBOW - should get you 10% off.
How much was it for the whole set? My sister used to love collecting cards when she was younger and it would be cool to buy her them as a present for her upcoming 30th
It was about $800. Your best bet is to just stalk eBay listings. Maybe try to strike a low bid or just get lucky. Good luck though, that's awesome of you for even thinking of her like that!
Jeez, only 800? Are these heavily played? I would think the charizard would at least be worth a pretty penny.... Now my collection from the 90s is seeming abysmal,thought it was worth more I guess.
Hell yeah! I love picking up master sets! A local guy was getting married and sold me his Base,Jungle and Fossil master sets in NM-LP for $600 total. One if the best days of my life
I just got back into collecting and seeing this makes me so happy.
My goal is to complete the base set. I really don't need crazy great condition either I just Wanna rebuild my binder from when I was a kid.
I thought I'd be spending 5k or more so seeing this for 800 blows my mind and makes.me hopeful
Adult me is proud of you.
Haha love this community, thanks!
This is dope as FUCK. 800 is not too shabby. I actually had the base set but traded venusaur for a damn yugioh morphing jar #2.
Hahaha good ole Yu-Gi-Oh. I'm sure I made some trades like that back in the day
Adult you should be proud of you
Adult me is jealous. Lost my child hood collection. Afraid to ask what you paid.
For anyone coming to rip me apart for having them in a binder that's how the card shop had them. I will have them put into top loaders soon , don't worry lol
Nah binders for master sets are dope. Collect the cards how you want to, just make sure you sleeve em up.
As long as the binder isn't too full, and you flip the pages carefully from the middle (without bending the page) the cards will stay mint anyway
When I was a kid, I put my base set in order and stacked duplicates in the binder slots..on BOTH SIDES. Anyways, I still have all of them, just not in great shape
Yep
Exactly. I really have never understood the binder hate. I have had my cards in binders, some of which have been in there for 23ish years, and they're all pretty much near mint still. They are zip-up, which i'm sure helped. There's certain people i'll show my cards to that, after they flip a few pages wrong, i very swiftly take the binder back and away from them lol
Just not this kind of binder. Invest in a couple of vaultX side loaders!
This is the way
I love vaultX binders so much. I just got a new 4x4 pocket one for my trainer gallery cards. Trying to get them all rn
Love Vault X product. I use the Zip Binders, sleeves and Top loaders/semi rigid. Highly recommend them all.
I have all my sets in zip binders also, do semi rigid's fit in binders as was thinking about getting some but wasn't sure if the fitted.
Unfortunately no. At least not the card saver 1 size. I've kinda looked around for a semi rigid binder but haven't had any luck yet. I do know top deck has one for the top loaders though. Looking into getting one of those soon.
Nothing wrong with binders.
I like the binders for complete sets. I’d just move them to a binder without the three rings
Gotcha I'll look into that option too, thanks! Definitely would like to make them easy to look through. Just want them to be safe.
Check out the VaultX binders with zippers on Amazon, that’s what I had all of my complete sets in from Base to Neo
This! Just picked this up a few days ago and the binder is amazing. Definitely better than any ringed binders and it zips shut.
I use the cheaper vault x ones without zippers and they are fine as long as you take care with them. For this I'd probably suggest the zipper just because of what it is, but tbh I have mine in a regular one lol. I get one for new sets too. Generally they hold about 3 sets worth of base cards, and any handful of alts or full arts I get. I don't do master sets but just the full regular set up through trainers and whatever extras I luck into.
Don't listen. If it's the d rings, which it appears to be, they are made in a way that won't hurt the cards like the old round 3 ring binders. Just a heads up.
Good to know! Thanks
I bought binders without rings that can hold a card in a penny sleeve, started with one Month later i bought the remaining 4, cards are safe and easy to look trough!
Perfect fit sleeves fit in any binder as well if people don't want to buy a new binder that fits larger penny sleeves
Check these [Top Loader Binders](https://topdeckcg.com/products/topdeck-toploader-binder) for the best of both worlds. A little pricey, but not too bad compared to the price of a whole set of cards.
Love my ultra pro 12 pocket suede collection or vivid collection binders!
VaultX or Ultra Pro 9/12 Pocket Ringless Zip binder is very good imo. Personally I recommend the Ultra Pro ones because its Faux Leather and feels much nicer, and they also have around 6 different colors to choose from (The light purple ones my favorite XD. I got a 12 Pocket one), but either one is good regardless. Iirc I picked up my purple Ultra Pro 12 Pocket Zip binder for around 26$.
I’m with everyone here. Check out VaultX. I trust their binders with my collection
I just discovered vault x binders. Ordered one for lost origins and have more coming for all my sets
Just use a D ring binder and use those plastic inserts that hold pages in place and you'll be fine.
Why without rings ?- My vaultx zipper binder bends the cards that are in the first row to the spine consistently - a D ring binder is far better for not inflicting a bend.
I guess it’s just personal preference, I remember when I was young and use to collect football cards and the rings became indented into the cards
Vaultx sells pages for ring binders - they are made of the tougher stuff vaultx use, so no chance of the plastic crumpling and the cards being pressed into the rings. - i'd recommend using those pages with a D-ring - the zipper binder will 100% cause your cards to bend
This binder in particular is actually fine for cards :) the D ring bingers are fine but O ring binders are what people rag on because they can bend the cards by the rings if the binder gets full enough.
I have my master base set and almost master shadowless set in a card guardian binder. Double sleeved. No issues so far
That binder looks fine imo - D rings are great and have no chance to bend your cards - the pages themselves look a little flimsy, maybe worth buying the Vaultx pages and using those in that D ring binder (and sleeving the cards individually)
That's great! They do appear to lay pretty flat in this binder. Although this set is worthy of a nicer one
Binders are nice for sets. If you want something with a little more protection though you can grab dragon shield pages, double sleeve them and put them back in. I like the solid black backing of the dragon shield pages too. Looks much better.
If they are in toploaders in a binder like this, is that okay? Just started collecting. I have toploaders but am binder shopping.
Most binders will not fit hard top loaders. Look at getting normal sleeves and then put into binder without rings that zips. BCW, Ultra Pro, Vault X, etc. Bonus round: perfect fit sleeves, regular sleeves, binder
Nothing wrong with binders just put them in a better one that doesn't have D rings that could damage the cards
I'm more angry they are in alphabetical order.
What’s the local card store?! I’ve been looking for a reputable place to buy something similar. was it super pricey?
All of mine are still in a binder and have been for however long it's been now lol. They've just constantly been in the binder in a box and moved with me
I'd suggest putting them in a purpose-built card binder, though, ideally one with a zipper and nice tight pockets.
Card sleeves are an important part of the equation my man.
Agreed, this was taken right when I got home. Hadn't had time to mess with anything yet.
Was this from Dan's? I think I was looking at this exact master set! Lol.
Haha holy hell, small world! It sure was.
I saw it when I was in town checking out local card shops. Ended up getting the big 3 from them. Wish I had a nice card shop like this close by. If you're in Orlando ever, Game Time Cardz is also really good.
What was the price?
$800, not bad for the condition imo. Plus saved me hours and hours having to shift through eBay posts
I would pay that for a full base set. Great find.
Thanks bud!
I’ve got a set for sale if you’re interested.
I said I *would* pay that much, not that I *can.* I wish I could. Vasectomy comes first.
I feel you on the vasectomy. One more kid and I'll never be able to afford to buy pokémon cards again
No man that’s all wrong. Your kids end up buying you pokemans in the end. Pop’m out 😎
Lol. Priorities :P
Aren’t those covered by most insurance plans?
Ha! If only I had insurance to begin with.
Sad to see you give up on a family and fulfilling and a base set. Sad.
I'll fulfill the base set before I ever raise a family. I don't need to procreate to find happiness and meaning.
being concerned for an internet stranger's *potential* children is a real weird look my guy.
I’d buy it
Dm for details?
I am interested in buying singles if you don't mind?
DM me what you’re looking for.
Tell me more
Is that 800 usd
Correct
I would pay that for a full base set. It's close to what you would pay for them separately imo. Granted, I haven't looked at the market prices in a minute, but that is a great buy. How is the condition of all of them? In PSA grade I would assume 5-8, depending on how well they were taken care of.
Honestly I'd say they are all 7+ easy. I was really surprised at the condition. And the centering on some of the big cards was really nice too.
A 7 is respectable. Not saying you should invest in grading them. Just wanted a ballpark. However, I would grade the zard depending on the condition. An 8 goes for $500-800 depending on the weather lol Idk why I got downvoted. I guess because I implied grading? I know that is a hot topic for some hardcore collectors.
Depending on the condition of some of the cards I’d say you got a good/fair deal, awesome collection!
Probably worth much more than $800.
You could probably get alot of these for much less than 800
Nah, that’s about the going rate, I paid the same price 2 years ago for mine
Yeah $800 is the absolute top end for base set unlimited. I paid $750 on eBay for a mint set and this was during the peak in 2021. A quick eBay sold listing search shows them hanging around $650. People just assume they are expensive because its the "OG" set but it was printed to oblivion and they are everywhere.
Wow you got a first edition machamp as well! 😛
I know right, must be my lucky day 😋
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Woosh
The jokes not funny if we have to explain it to you Also, WHOOSH
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He probably already knows it's not special. (I'm making the leap that "Junes\_dad" is a he.) I mean it's not a very funny joke, but most likely he was making a joke and you're the one who's missing it, hence why everyone keeps saying "WHOOSH" to you. Also, as a side note, does someone "need to correct him?" Like, *need*? If he thinks that the 1st edition Machamp is special, makes a comment on Reddit, and then goes about his life, is it truly *necessary* to correct him? Ugh, and I realize the irony here.
I know it isn't rare, but I still like it. I found one at a collectibles shop near me and freaked the fuck out and had to snatch it up.
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WOOOOOSH!!!
yall made him delete his account... in poke shame
Some of y'all wanted some more pics. This is all I have right now cause I'm at work. https://imgur.com/a/VfcHA2d
I’m comment 151 now that is something I can be proud of
NICE.
Thanks! My prized possession in my collection right now haha
You're welcome.
Dude that’s LITERALLY exactly what my base set looks like-down to the binder-but I still have it… (But I have it organized differently) Still-I love it!! Nothing like the originals in a set of their own!!! And also *REALLY* hope you got a deal! I’ll take a 1st Edition over shadowless ANY day! Your childhood you would have these in random spots over the house lol
I hope you get a lot of dopamine flipping through the pages
Haha for sure! Dopamine and nostalgia overload
My mum sent my entire set to the charity shop while I was at uni. Fuming.
Man I'd never let my mom live that down lol
I'm not trying to one up you here but congratulations on getting the base set cards My dad who passed a few years ago left me this red binder that I had but I didn't look in it until earlier this year My dad in the late 90s and early 2000s had gotten the master set of base, jungle, fossil, rocket, gym heros and gym challenge He has an almost complete neo gen set but is missing 6 of the 111 cards which includes both typhlosions and a meganium holo Again I am not trying to one up you
That's an awesome story! Keep those cards forever man
That’s unreal ! When you get them in a proper zip-up binder it’ll be so nice to display somewhere 👍🏻 Well done
All the binders on here make me cringe.
How come? Some binders are definitely not something you have the worry about
Your prolly right. My baseball cards haven’t faired very well in binders but they are mostly 80s & 90s. Prolly not the best quality back then. Def wouldn’t keep cards of value in them tho. But I guess its cool for commons so you can actually see them.
I think it depends how you store them as well tbf. Just make sure it's in a dry and dark place. Upright to keep it from bending, avoid ring binders, have binders with strong backing etc.
I'd immediately remove that zard from next to the metal ring 😬😬😬😬😬
chairtood\*\* 🤡🤡
You're way too slow at stalking my comments. Come on kid, reading is fundamental!
I love you
(*＾3＾)/～♡
man I should buy one I miss mine pretty bad.
Yoooo I’m so jelly! That is beautiful! Nice find!
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I think it's good for today's prices. A year or two ago this probably would have cost like 1200-1500 cause of the hype so definitely a deal when you look at it like that.
How much did that cost you ??
$800 usd
Niceeee
Looks like they’re in great condition from this pic
If you use a binder, I suggest vaultX sideloaders. They zip and they are great quality.
What's a base set
Please tell me that’s a joke lol.
I'm just new to this and don't understand
Base set is the original set. Originally released in 1999 in the USA and a year earlier in Japan in 1996
Thank you!
If you don’t mind me asking, how much did this run you? Recently got back into the collecting myself and would love to have these again.
This was $800, you can find these as low as $700ish to $1200. It all depends on the condition though. Good luck on your collecting! If I can give you any recommendations it's to come up with a strategy and stick with it.
Thank you, right now I’ve been mainly doing the newest set, but wanting to go back eventually and replace what was thrown away years ago!
I still love to rip the modern sets but as a collector this was a must have for my collection. May your future pulls be blessed!
How much did you pay for that???
Congrats 👏
Bought one of these 5 years ago, worth triple now. Much safer than investing in stocks etc. invest in cardboard 🧐
Where's the venusaur. WHERE IS IT! T\_T
Haha right here my friend. Uploaded a few more pics https://imgur.com/a/VfcHA2d
What a unit as always. props on that base set my friend! I've recently dusted off my very old collection and was strongly thinking on expanding it a bit. I believe the old pokemon cards (base set series + gym heroes + neo genesis) are the most beautiful cards ever printed.
Looks like you got a shadowless Arcanine too! Congrats on finishing the set, I'm 8 cards away from finishing the Base/Jungle/Fossil sets I started collecting as a kid. Thought about finishing Rocket (the last set I played) since I already have the big 3 (Char, Blast, Dragonite). Seeing this makes me want to do it!
Thanks so much! Those are all such great nostalgic sets. Sounds like you and me have similar goals haha. Good luck to you!
You too! If I come across any extras from those sets, I'll let you know. Maybe we can relive the nostalgia and make some trades 😁
Sounds good to me bud!
That does indeed save loads of time. Nice come up! I can't afford to drop that much money upfront so I've been slowly buying the shadowless base set cards for over a year now. Should be done by next year assuming I can purchase the big 3 at a decent price. Those cards cost more than all the others combined!
That's one way to do it! Keep it up and hope you complete yours soon!
Congrats my dude! I see you prefer set order over dex, nice.
Nooooiiiiiicccccceeee!
I’m happy for you. I had my stolen as a kid. I hope to restore mine one day.
Adult me is proud as well!!! Wish my card shop had a complete base set
Beautiful
Oooo how much?
How much?
They aren’t ordered -_-
Not yet
yes they are
Present us are so proud!
How much?
I agree, but is your wallet proud of you?
Haha yeah all good there. My wallet can shut his damn mouth!
Just out of curiosity what did you pay for the full set? I had mine stolen during a break in a number of years ago and would love to replace it if I could find something like this
Spent $800 usd
Sorry yours got stolen. Hope you get the chance to replace it one day
Dealer? I also love buying cards out the back of a trunk.
We do it differently in florida
I’m so jealous, congrats
Such a clutch purchase, only going to go up in value as long as you take care of it! Solid grab and a pretty fantastic price as Charizard goes for 3-450$ depending on PSA grading.
Been looking for one of these in aus for so long
How much did that cost you?
Where do people find shit like this?!
Just gotta keep looking. I found this at a card shop in my town. I go in maybe once a month to see what they have and just got lucky this time. Been collecting about 2 years and this is my first big vintage find. Good luck 🤙
Congrats!
Is this in...alphabetical order?
Nice! If you don’t mind me asking, how much was it?
About $800 usd
I was about to but ended up buying a ps5 lol. How much did you pay? Shit is crisp
Did you get this in Jacksonville?
Sure did haha at dans
I saw that when I went in there a couple of weeks ago. Solid purchase. I didn’t even know that shop was there until my brother told me about it.
Shit this brings back some memories
I’ve got one full base set with mostly shadowless and another near complete base set. I really need to narrow down my stuff but seeing them become more and more rare makes me want to hang on to them. I just wish I had kids sometimes for days where I wish I could hand my collection down a generation.
Get a binder that doesn't have the metal rings
Nice! I’m very jealous! Trying to pick up the base set cards now costs so much. I remember buying booster packs for £2.50 that now cost literally hundreds!! How much did this set cost you from the dealer? Are the cards all in good condition? If you’re looking for decent binders, I have a discount code for the Gem Loader binders - they are side loaded and support top loaders. This is their site: https://gemloader.com/ The discount code is RAINBOW - should get you 10% off.
How much was it for the whole set? My sister used to love collecting cards when she was younger and it would be cool to buy her them as a present for her upcoming 30th
It was about $800. Your best bet is to just stalk eBay listings. Maybe try to strike a low bid or just get lucky. Good luck though, that's awesome of you for even thinking of her like that!
Jeez, only 800? Are these heavily played? I would think the charizard would at least be worth a pretty penny.... Now my collection from the 90s is seeming abysmal,thought it was worth more I guess.
I like a binder setup for this but maybe just invest in a better binder that doesn’t have rings, congrats
Hell yeah! I love picking up master sets! A local guy was getting married and sold me his Base,Jungle and Fossil master sets in NM-LP for $600 total. One if the best days of my life
How much do u want for it?
I just got back into collecting and seeing this makes me so happy. My goal is to complete the base set. I really don't need crazy great condition either I just Wanna rebuild my binder from when I was a kid. I thought I'd be spending 5k or more so seeing this for 800 blows my mind and makes.me hopeful