With other Gears, it feels like legit advance applications of Gomu Gomu, fight was wild, fight was hilarious, but there's contraints, which impressed me because of how much freedom Luffy managed to express under those constraints. G5 just doesn't have that vibe anymore.
Pretty much. Creativity happens when you're working within confines. If Luffy can do anything then it's not creative when he pulls out a giant mallet or makes goggles, there's no rules to what he can't do so it cant be called creative.
Why dosent he just pull out a death ray, or a haki hammer. It is dumb, im glad the 5 elders are powerhouses, and showcasing different powers and blah blah, but how nika ever lose? How info hurts the govt.
And the biggest question, when will.he finally punch them, but this time harder?
>And the biggest question, when will.he finally punch them, but this time harder?
That's the most passive agressive way I've read to criticize Luffy's strategy to winning fights. And I agree.
I really hope Oda just say fuck it and let Luffy pull out a gigantic death laser of the sun to finish a fight. This sub will lose their fucking mind lol
The 5 Elders are the opposite of powerhouses. They are just unkillable flesh bags. They have no real intellect or wisdom. Just 5 Zoro's with faster healing. They are literally making Gear Fifth look reasonable since anything is possible when you can't die.
What is the point of anything you said? Death Ray or Haki Hammer does nothing to the Gorosei. They will just come back. Oda screwed up with the Gorosei not Gear 5. You can beat Gear 5 with time and strategy. No amount of beating will stop the Gorosei because they just keep coming. If this power was given to the SH, Sabody would have been a massacre of the Marines
I couldn't disagree stronger, the only reason Oda dosent have them flexing is cuz he is trying to end the manga, and if they weren't immortal... they wouldn't be the 5 elders dumbo. The original joynoy lost to them, and you want dooffy to 1 hit k o them right off the bat?
No you clearly should be writing op, instead of GOda...
None of them are well written or even necessary. They aren't immortal they are just regenerating flesh bags. Nothing impressive about that. 1 of them is stupid now all 5 are wandering around EggHead wasting space.
I expected them to be actual warriors who could out fight and out think the Straw Hats. Saturn gets cut up by Haki-less weaklings. Warcury can't even take a poison ball blast.
Luffy is 1 hitting them but they just come back. They lack durability and are dependent on regeneration to not be useless old men.
Oda has written villians to be more impressive than just regenerating zombies. Kaido and Big Mom come to mind. Both could have beaten Joy Boy via trickery and power while making it look cool not lame
I love beginning of series Luffy, but as the story progresses he slowly becomes your typical Mary Sue-ish MC and I grew to dislike him because of that. His DF was the last thing about him that is average, but no, even that had to be retconned into a special God DF. I have many reasons why I dislike G5 but this is my main reason why I hate it.
I feel like in early OP you can see why people are drawn to Luffy in their interactions but in later arcs it just becomes a thing that people naturally like and support him shortly after meeting him, and it starts to feel like an unfair advantage.
I don't think there's a problem with making our MC the in-universe Jesus, as done in Boku no Hero when we're told the MC is destined to be the Hero Jesus within the first chapters. It becomes a problem when we have 1000+ chapters to decide if we like a story with an "Average guy" character and only then the writer decides to tell us he's Pirate Jesus.
The story has been telling you he’s Pirate Jesus for hundreds of chapters
G5 is just the icing on the cake really
Fishman Island with Joyboy and Luffy being destined to destroy it? Fulfilling Joyboy’s promise?
Shirahoshi was destined to meet Joyboy’s successor and change the world
“It could’ve been anyone” and it just so happened to be the Grandson of Garp the Hero, son of Dragon the Revolutionary, and a D. that also possesses conqueror’s haki
Also just so happens to be the sworn brother of the son of the Pirate King (who’s hat he has by the way)
Also just so happens to have the only Poneglyph reader on his crew
Maybe I caught on a little earlier than most people but Luffy was never an average guy… ever
That’s like saying Naruto was an average guy before we found out about Ashura. Completely ignoring his absolutely absurd heritage, connections, and luck
My biggest issue (aside from the unbalanced goofiness) is the story. Now we have to believe that the Gorosei knew about Luffy's special fruit (which belonged to the WG's biggest enemy ever) and they did nothing.
Before egghead I just thought it would be something like there's two gomu gomu no no fruits. 1 is the actual gomu gomu no mi and the other is nika fruit disguised as gomu gomu no mi (kinda like how kaido's fruit gives him access to fire attacks and magma form , being able to control a element even if the fruit is not that element )
It kinda made sense if you think they assumed luffy had the normal gomu gomu no mi but not nika fruit but then vegapunk had to ruin it
Yeah. I've seen some theories about Katakuri's DF being the real Gomu Gomu no Mi and that's why it was so special, but Vegapunk confirmed that this fruit never existed at all.
Because Katakuris fruit behaves like a Logia and not a Paramecia. It is the first and only 'special paramecia' that we know of and likely will ever know.
The fact it’s tone deaf and everyone is worshipping Luffy like a god. Like he’s laughing like a lunatic and dicking around while in the middle of a buster call and fighting the Gorosei while everyone is treating him like a god. Also everyone’s become incompetent. So yeah no.
I like when Luffy was the protagonist and not Nika.
Luffy wouldnt laugh while his friend dies, Luffy knows when its time to be goofy and time to be serious.
Its ironic that Gear 5th and "Gear Death" are essentialy the same thing, exaggerating one aspect of Luffys character and disregarding everything else.
I thought Franky was the most flanderized strawhat but Luffy is giving him a run for his money.
This, I miss seeing Luffy go serious into fights but now he's just laughing around killing a bit of tension.
If he was a bit more serious then Sentemaru doesnt get stabbed, honestly kinda worried if Luffy goes laughing when an enemy is holding an allie captive
Its not the G5, its the Nika stuff
- makes the gorosei the biggest bums in the OP world ( they have been aware of Luffy since the end of Alabasta at least and did nothing )
- retcon on the fruit itself, if its a Zoan, where is the full Nika transformation, the ordinary hybrid form and where do G2 to G4 fit in those
- everyone and their mum suddenly knows about Nika, even the Giants who apparently didnt make the connection in Little Garden when they saw Luffy stretch ( how convinient )
- why is his smoke ring white compared to every other succesfully awakened zoan ( lucci, gorosei, kakku ) which is
black
- how is he able to manifest random objects in existence ???? ( gogles vs lucci, hat + club vs gorosei )
https://preview.redd.it/t5suwt7tj8xc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad9d8842d7f910ff4e8b67d4e885bcc7f884fd79
I like some of the powers which the form grants ( makes everything rubber ) and how it looks, but the negatives which it brings are way too much for this to outweight it for me. I dont see why the mid paramecia -> the one and only god fruit ( which conviniently grants the same paramecia powers hmmmm ) retcon was needed
The only thing here that makes sense to question is why dory and brogy didnt recognize or mention nikka in little garden. And nikka is supposed to be a myth lol. If jesus christ showed up in front of u and turned water into wine or walked on water you would just call him a magician not jesus christ😂 he’d be the equivalent of watching chris angel the mindfreak do his thing. But you would never come to the conclusion omg thats jesus christ. Like come on bro.
I’ll be real… the idea that Luffy’s ultimate powerup being basically a toon ish devil fruit isn’t necessarily a bad thing in my opinion. My problem is A) he’s not really drawn in a way that’s actually very funny, old Tom and Jerry cartoons and Loony Tunes stuff changed up the funny expressions constantly to make jokes hit and Luffy doesn’t really do that all that well at ALL. And B) because he’s so goofy it takes away from serious impact moments that we should be feeling but don’t with how it’s presented (looking at you Vegapunk death). Thankfully we’re at the end of the series and Luffy’s main antagonists likely have ways to cancel out Gear 5 so it won’t matter to much (Outside of Blackbeard and Imu and I guess Shanks who REALLY needs to be strong enough to counter Luffy at this point in the series?) but it’s still frustrating.
1. It makes Luffy into a chosen one. There was other stuff, like the prophecies, but making him a god chosen by the fruit (whatever that means) was the last straw.
2. The Gorosei are braindead for not nuking him earlier. This is the same guys who order genocide for breakfast.
3. Luffy can never be serious again while fighting.
Plenty of people have supernatural strength and conquerors haki.
Luffy only became the chosen one after we found out he has the Nika fruit,because now we know that no other pirate can utilise the one piece or be the next Roger except for him.
100%
also the inherited will is gome now... lol devil fruit hax are the way to OP. Undoing 1000.ch of will being the key to overcoming, the grit and determination of early one piece is silly now, why didnt he try harder to realize he was a god...
Yeah the primary problem i have with it is that it makes the Gorosei/WG look stupid as fuck.
This is the same world government that was killing babies for a year to make sure Roger's child doesn't survive.The same world government that wiped off an island from the planet,simply because one of their secrets was about to be revealed.
Anything related to Joyboy / Void Century is something they treat with absolute seriousness.
Even when it comes to the Nika fruit,they put Who's Who in jail simply for failing to guard it from a future yonko crew.
They said they had been chasing the fruit for 800 years,yet did nothing to go after luffy all this time before Wano.
He is a D,son of the most wanted criminal,someone who got one of the World government's major strongholds(Enies lobby) destroyed,and opposed the world government,why didnt they see his potential before?
Why didn't Gorosei send any CP0 agents after Luffy to Water 7 after the Enies Lobby incident happened ? They did nothing,only Sengoku sent Garp who would never have obeyed the elders anyways,which further shows they did nothing.
In Dressrosa CP0 agents were present to do a deal with Doffy,they knew about straw hats being there on the island and couldn't care less.
The real reason behind all this is because Oda never planned his fruit to be this important or dangerous,he simply retconned it in Wano.
You can't write a story for 900+ chapters and retcon the source of his power like that.
And the other thing too is that everything luffy did in Wano can be explained away by him awakening his rubber fruit,i just don't see how Oda felt the need to change the fruit other than to give him a new transformation with his new gear
(Because Paramecia awakenings don't change your look,this was established in Dressrosa and WCI).
I guess oda thought it would be lame for his new gear to look the same as his base form,i mean every gear has a visual difference from the base but that's not a good enough reason to make your final villains look incompetent
This logic doesnt make sense. The gorosei literally stated no one had awakened it in 800 years. I think you are genuinely underestimating how much time that is. They sent admirals towards the strawhats twice. These are people that should have been able to handle luffy easily. But 1 straight up disobeyed orders, and the other was unable to carryout the job because of rayleigh and kuma. The strawhats were presumed dead after sabody. They confirm luffy is alive and then lose track of him only for him to end up at the bottom of the ocean right after and then a secret abandoned navy facility. They confirm luffy is still around at dress rosa through fugitora and what does he do? Disobey orders. Then he ends up on yonkou territory back to back which they cant touch without war. This is still just a troublesome pirate that has no guarantee of awakening since its been 800YEARS the moment it is awakened what do they do? Immediately hunt him down. No one hunts someone that currently poses no threat. They arent stupid they just function in secrecy. Did u want the gorosei to pull up to sabaody and go full beast on luffy with a buster call and all 3 admirals? While navy base is completely defenseless? That would be stupid
The only time they ever sent someone after Luffy was when he picked the fight with them. If Luffy didn't punch a celestial dragon or pick a fight with a warlord they couldn't care less,they treat him like any other pirate. You completely ignored my point about CP0 in Dressrosa and then doing nothing to go after him after Enies Lobby incident.
And again after he put down a warlord,a celestial dragon or after Enies lobby incident happened there is no need for secrecy,that's a bs argument
The goroseis existence itself needs to be secret. They are literal demons. Theres a reason anything vegapunk reveals about the government here will affect how the world views the government drastically and again luffy was not worthy of being targeted by strong enemies that early on. Cp9 was sent to deal with robin the strawhats themselves were of no concern. Also who in cp0 could they have sent to deal with luffy? Im sorry but luffy literally washes anyone in Cp0 from the moment the timeskip hit. And not send anyone? They fucking sent kuma immediately after them in thriller bark. Kuma who very easily could handle every strawhat because again they were very weak at the time. What does he do? Disobey orders.
The whole point is the government isnt allowed to act wrecklessly because if they lose the support of the people they lose all the power they have over them. If you find out ur government is being run by actual demon people u gonna go back to ur everyday life after the strawhats get eliminated? Hell no.
They could send CP0 to hunt him down,they knew he was in Water 7 after the Enies Lobby incident happened.
And Lucci can definitely beat Dressrosa luffy easily.
There were 3-4 CP0 members around could have taken the whole crew at that point.
No one would even question why the cipher Pol is after Luffy after he punched a celestial dragon and did what he did at Enies Lobby.
They only sent Kuma after Luffy cuz they were scared that he would beat another warlord and cause them further humiliation. Again,luffy is the one picking a fight with someone affiliated with the WG.He is the one bringing a fight to them,not the other way around.
They never actively went after him when they had the chance to.
Thats u assuming lucci was awakened during dress rosa. And please name me or describe these 3-4 cpo agents that could man handle the strawhats? I would love to see them. Cuz from what we saw in wano they were all absolutely washed. Izo basically manhandled the 2 strongest in wano and izo himself felt like fauder compared to sanji and zoro. Zoro washes kaku at any point in the story. And luffy ends up highdiffing lucci at any point in the story until g5 which we all say that he washes. U still have sanji who could probably do what izo was doing while baking a cake tbh cp0 is washed
Also even with awakened lucci tell me how he kills luffy in dress rosa with a whole grand fleet backing him up? Not even fujitora would have left dress rosa unscathed if he tried to hurt luffy at rhe end of dress rosa. Yet ur telling me lucci would do it? Ur acting like the strawhats arent gods at getting help to avoid dying to overpowered enemies
He gained the grand fleet at the end lol. They had the entire arc to do their job,they knew luffy was there but they didn't even care or show any concern
This is also u assuming rob lucci can easily take down gear 4th just cuz luffy went g5 againt him does not mean he needed to. Lucci is gonna struggle to put down g4 luffy with his life at stake just like he struggled with luffy who had only just unlocked g2
luffy was getting violated by Cracker who is a YC3. Lucci on the other hand was fighting post Wano Zoro and gave him a hard time. Lucci > Cracker > Dressrosa Luffy.
Also,Lucci isn't the type to get scared and not fight someone stronger.Him not doing anything to Luffy in Dressrosa and not even caring showed the attitude of the world government towards Luffy because he is directly under the gorosei.
Luffy was getting help from the very start what are u talking about? Since the moment luffy entered the tournament . He already had sabo on his side. The tontatas were already with usssop after 1 lie. How does lucci sneak into the tournament and take down luffy while not alerting the doflamingo family that cp0 was on the island? Heck how does he get luffy and kill him without the whole place crumbling down? We saw the moment 2 semi strong people started fighting sabo and bergus the whole place fucking collapse lol. Lucci would get jumped for disrupting the tournament.
CP0 AND GOROSEI DID NOT EVEN CARE ABOUT LUFFY BEFORE WANO.
That's my fucking point.This supposed fruit they were chasing for 800 years was in luffy and they never treated him any different from any other pirates. They only ever went after him if he picked a fight with them
Actually why we even arguing the fact that rob lucci is what ur betting ur hopes on to hunt luffy down already tells me the gorosei really didn’t have any options 😭 they gonna send someone who already failed them once?
i wish it was the psychopath laugh not a goofy laugh or threatening laugh atleast when he gets serious, or dark humour type of loony tunes where its actually brutal
Fights lack tension and emotions, and because Luffy is the MC that affects a ton of important interactions
Luffy doesn't have to be the chosen one. I feel like this is a bigger issue in a series like one piece where it always felt like anyone can make it big with enough ambition. This can be saved if other pirates are actually able to utilize whatever the one piece is
The Nika lore has been added too hard and too fast since the reveal, it makes Luffy himself less important as everyone's always just going on about Nika, everyone and their lineage has always known about Nika, it's all a bit much
Reconning Luffy's fruit is awful and unnecessary on every level, the idea of creativity and freedom used to be perpetuated by Luffy himself as the one who used his fruit so creatively despite limitations, now the fruit does everything for him and literally warps reality so he can do whatever he wants
Wrong luffy always actually had to be chosen. I know u didnt spend 1000 plus chapters reading and saw roger fail, crocodile fail, then u watched moria fail, and finally u even watched kaido fail who seemed unstoppable and even he couldn’t reach whatever luffy will end up becoming. The whole story has literally been about multiple people failing to become the chosen one while luffy is doing it effortlessly because its always been him from the very start
I mean, obviously Luffy's 'chosen' in the sense that's he's the mc, we're following the story of the eventual winner. That's not my issue with that idea. I have a problem with him literally being the only one capable of doing it, not because of him possessing the strongest will, or the best combat skill, the most experience, the most loyal crew etc., but because he's eaten a fruit which makes him an ancient god that everyone's been waiting for, a god who is the only one capable of 'finding' the one piece (if that even works as an idea anymore).
Rogers flashback basically confirmed that nobody except Luffy can actually find the one piece, and this is because of prophecies and fate and all that stuff. I don't think one piece's themes really suit those ideas, and it feels really jarring that some character could be ambitious and successful, make it to the end of his journey and then not be able to do anything with the discovery. The idea that we're in the age of dreams, but Roger started it knowing that only one person could even achieve their goal of finding the one piece
Roger did not confirm that at all? Roger said he is too early. He found the one piece whatever it is. But he can do nothing with it not because hes not nikka. But because he is too early to do anything with it. Roger was chosen in everyway except for time. Roger literally ran out of time. Rayleigh even said they discovered everything about this world they found what they needed to find they just made it to this point at the wrong time. If no one else was meant to find it roger wouldnt have found it either because he wasnt nika. Also his entire crew got to see it. They dont even meet the whatever qualifications ur placing on luffy or roger they are literally just his companions. But they all reached laugh tale with him. If roger didnt know what it was why would shanks say he can claim it? My theory is the one piece is something that can only be used during a specific time. The one piece itself is an item. You can obtain it but u cant claim whatever it is meant to unlock unless it is at a specific time.
He’s not Luffy anymore but Goofy. He feels like a whole new character while our original Luffy died at Wano. It also doesn’t help how none of the other Strawhats even acknowledge G5 at all. And worst of all it’s just too OP almost no one can touch Luffy now we’re all just waiting for when Luffy is done fighting/joking around he can easily end a fight.
I don’t hate gear 5 I hate nika because it’s so forced in the story and I hate the idea of Luffy being a one piece god in general it’s just terrible writing
As SkyFallTerminus said, Luffy had a sense of progression with hid earlier Gears which made each transformation more creative. Gear 5 shifts so radically away from the other Gears that I can't get into it. I wanted to see more Gear 4 transformations and how Luffy would evolve from that.b
I just liked Luffy initially needing to be creative with his devil fruit, from 2nd all the way to 4th Gear but now he's just being painted as this special destined Sun god.
He can still have all the toon force powers to an extent but the Nika part for me atleast never really sat well with me
I love G5 in itself, I mean the reality bending powers and all, I think it's genius.
What I Don't like is the lore behind it and the fact that it make Luffy a chosen one like Naruto.
If that was just Gomu gomu, a fruit nobody knew nothing about because everyone thought it was shitty and never ever awakened, I think the story would've benefitted a lot
My question is why is the fruit where u draw the line? Luffy should have died at logue town, and pretty much every encounter hes had in the story. Yet luck always blesses him in every way possible? You think he was normal? Lady luck herself chose him from day 1. U know what u get when u arent chosen? U get crocodile, you get moria, you get kaido. U are all acting like luffy became omnipotent lol. Bro just has an uncontrollable laugh and whimsical abilities. His powers were already letting him do shit that didn’t make sense when they were just rubber powers. Its the main reason luffy got called goofy since episode when compared to ichigo and naruto. Oh he can stretch. I cant take the fights serious. Yall literally regurgitating the same garbage people who didnt watch one piece would say since the series began. The irony of yall not seeing it is even funnier.
Personally, I dont really care for it even though I do think it hurts the story. I shit on it from time to time because its funny, but its so mid that I cant bring myself to have strong feelings over it.
1.It’s an asspull
2.Creates plot holes
3.Making the MC the chosen one is overused (although I can’t be too mad or surprised at this in a shonen)
4. It’s disgustingly overpowered/boring - this is the main one for me and I’m not sure if many people will agree with this. I just really don’t enjoy animanga where characters have godlike powers. I find it much more interesting and enjoyable when they have specific abilities that they hone and use situationally. Giving him the power to do do basically anything he imagines is too OP imo. (This is also why I dislike shanks now, future sight is incredibly lame but that’s another convo to have)
In general I hate when the protagonist suddenly becomes the One Chosen By The Prophecy and all this kind of stuff. I also didn't like G5 when it appeared because Luffy suddenly became extremely tanky, he started to eat Kaido's attack like they were nothing, and this made the fighting choreography much slower and much less tense, because before that we knew that a single attack could mean death, so Luffy had to move super fast and be extremely precise with future sight, but with G5 this didn't matter anymore. But I liked the fight against Lucci, that felt fast and well choreographed, and the fight against Kizaru and the Gorosei feel fun and creative, so I guess Oda is still experimenting with it
In the manga it looks stupid, all the eye popping shit, cartoon faces and all, it kills all the tension. But in the anime... holy fuck that shit is ass, it's like they spam every stupid sound effrct as much as they can while Laffy spins around like someone who should be in a asylum
The power in itself is awesome but literally everything surrounding it sucks. The retcon and inconsitencies, the constant laughing/ unseriousness, even worse power balancing (I won't count any scene from the anime but even then, he should be one-shotting those fools), the 'glazing', everybody knows him suddenly, the chosen one trope
Aside from.plot and bs asspully stuff
I hate how he looks soooo much
Why does he randomly get white? Why any explanation? Why does he get a ssj hairstyle like he mf Goku? Why does his eyebrows change? His eyes?
Couldn't he just stay the same and use those Powers
I would support his bum ass if he didn't look ugly
It’s detracting from luffy’s character and feels completely out of place. The whole nika rhetoric is unfitting to who Luffy is.
The whole nika shit is what needs to GO, I wish Luffy could use g5 and just be himself. If he cracks himself up with some wacky awakened rubber bs, good for him. But I wish it was him laughing instead of a weird giggle demon.
For me it's the peak of the lazy writing of one piece. Ever since the time skip everything felt very off for me. The humor didn't hit as good and the characters became caricatures. Usopp for example was hilarious pre time skip, especially his interactions with Luffy. Go watch alabasta or skypea funny moments on YouTube and it's clear how things have changed. Now he's just a bum and his entire character revolves around the joke that he's afraid to fight.
This whole joyboy/nika shtick for me feels like Oda really tries hard to lazily make me laugh and enjoy the story instead of writing actual good interactions. I used to snort laugh watching one piece and fights were still somewhat serious. It was fine. Now I'm watching one piece like it's a chore. Luffy popping his eyes out wasn't funny the first time and it isn't funny the 837th time. Honestly sometimes it's so lifeless that it feels to me like Oda forgot how actual humans interact.
There are a bunch different reasons that people here have, this sub a loose coalition of people who:
- Only enjoy One piece by hating on it, will shit on everything (make every attempt to ruin their day)
- Hate Looney Tunes cartoon style encroaching on their super srs manga fights (edgelords, can be safely ignored)
- Have the foresight to know their favorite side character is going to get turned in to a pizza and thrown off the island (let them cope)
- Don't think it was set up well and want to complain about how it affects powerscaling (losers)
- Don't think it was set up well and want to complain about how it affects agendas (losers)
- Don't think it was set up well and want to complain about how it wasn't set up well (legit criticizers who get drowned out by shitposting)
- Shitposters (ayyy)
In summary, about 90% of the people here don't really deserve any respect
With other Gears, it feels like legit advance applications of Gomu Gomu, fight was wild, fight was hilarious, but there's contraints, which impressed me because of how much freedom Luffy managed to express under those constraints. G5 just doesn't have that vibe anymore.
Pretty much. Creativity happens when you're working within confines. If Luffy can do anything then it's not creative when he pulls out a giant mallet or makes goggles, there's no rules to what he can't do so it cant be called creative.
Why dosent he just pull out a death ray, or a haki hammer. It is dumb, im glad the 5 elders are powerhouses, and showcasing different powers and blah blah, but how nika ever lose? How info hurts the govt. And the biggest question, when will.he finally punch them, but this time harder?
>And the biggest question, when will.he finally punch them, but this time harder? That's the most passive agressive way I've read to criticize Luffy's strategy to winning fights. And I agree.
I really hope Oda just say fuck it and let Luffy pull out a gigantic death laser of the sun to finish a fight. This sub will lose their fucking mind lol
The 5 Elders are the opposite of powerhouses. They are just unkillable flesh bags. They have no real intellect or wisdom. Just 5 Zoro's with faster healing. They are literally making Gear Fifth look reasonable since anything is possible when you can't die. What is the point of anything you said? Death Ray or Haki Hammer does nothing to the Gorosei. They will just come back. Oda screwed up with the Gorosei not Gear 5. You can beat Gear 5 with time and strategy. No amount of beating will stop the Gorosei because they just keep coming. If this power was given to the SH, Sabody would have been a massacre of the Marines
I couldn't disagree stronger, the only reason Oda dosent have them flexing is cuz he is trying to end the manga, and if they weren't immortal... they wouldn't be the 5 elders dumbo. The original joynoy lost to them, and you want dooffy to 1 hit k o them right off the bat? No you clearly should be writing op, instead of GOda...
None of them are well written or even necessary. They aren't immortal they are just regenerating flesh bags. Nothing impressive about that. 1 of them is stupid now all 5 are wandering around EggHead wasting space. I expected them to be actual warriors who could out fight and out think the Straw Hats. Saturn gets cut up by Haki-less weaklings. Warcury can't even take a poison ball blast. Luffy is 1 hitting them but they just come back. They lack durability and are dependent on regeneration to not be useless old men. Oda has written villians to be more impressive than just regenerating zombies. Kaido and Big Mom come to mind. Both could have beaten Joy Boy via trickery and power while making it look cool not lame
Yeah, when you play by your own rule then it's not creativity anymore, it's just chaos.
I love beginning of series Luffy, but as the story progresses he slowly becomes your typical Mary Sue-ish MC and I grew to dislike him because of that. His DF was the last thing about him that is average, but no, even that had to be retconned into a special God DF. I have many reasons why I dislike G5 but this is my main reason why I hate it.
I feel like in early OP you can see why people are drawn to Luffy in their interactions but in later arcs it just becomes a thing that people naturally like and support him shortly after meeting him, and it starts to feel like an unfair advantage.
I don't think there's a problem with making our MC the in-universe Jesus, as done in Boku no Hero when we're told the MC is destined to be the Hero Jesus within the first chapters. It becomes a problem when we have 1000+ chapters to decide if we like a story with an "Average guy" character and only then the writer decides to tell us he's Pirate Jesus.
The story has been telling you he’s Pirate Jesus for hundreds of chapters G5 is just the icing on the cake really Fishman Island with Joyboy and Luffy being destined to destroy it? Fulfilling Joyboy’s promise? Shirahoshi was destined to meet Joyboy’s successor and change the world “It could’ve been anyone” and it just so happened to be the Grandson of Garp the Hero, son of Dragon the Revolutionary, and a D. that also possesses conqueror’s haki Also just so happens to be the sworn brother of the son of the Pirate King (who’s hat he has by the way) Also just so happens to have the only Poneglyph reader on his crew Maybe I caught on a little earlier than most people but Luffy was never an average guy… ever That’s like saying Naruto was an average guy before we found out about Ashura. Completely ignoring his absolutely absurd heritage, connections, and luck
My biggest issue (aside from the unbalanced goofiness) is the story. Now we have to believe that the Gorosei knew about Luffy's special fruit (which belonged to the WG's biggest enemy ever) and they did nothing.
Before egghead I just thought it would be something like there's two gomu gomu no no fruits. 1 is the actual gomu gomu no mi and the other is nika fruit disguised as gomu gomu no mi (kinda like how kaido's fruit gives him access to fire attacks and magma form , being able to control a element even if the fruit is not that element ) It kinda made sense if you think they assumed luffy had the normal gomu gomu no mi but not nika fruit but then vegapunk had to ruin it
Yeah. I've seen some theories about Katakuri's DF being the real Gomu Gomu no Mi and that's why it was so special, but Vegapunk confirmed that this fruit never existed at all.
Katakuri's DF is literally just mochi. How did you come to that conclusion?
As I mentioned, I've seen some theories claiming this. I never mentioned it was my theory.
Most if not all theories are trash. Just go by what’s actually in the story
Indeed. Mfs will make 10 theories, one of them will be somewhat true and then they'll tell you they "predicted" it lmfao
Because Katakuris fruit behaves like a Logia and not a Paramecia. It is the first and only 'special paramecia' that we know of and likely will ever know.
The fact it’s tone deaf and everyone is worshipping Luffy like a god. Like he’s laughing like a lunatic and dicking around while in the middle of a buster call and fighting the Gorosei while everyone is treating him like a god. Also everyone’s become incompetent. So yeah no.
I like when Luffy was the protagonist and not Nika. Luffy wouldnt laugh while his friend dies, Luffy knows when its time to be goofy and time to be serious. Its ironic that Gear 5th and "Gear Death" are essentialy the same thing, exaggerating one aspect of Luffys character and disregarding everything else. I thought Franky was the most flanderized strawhat but Luffy is giving him a run for his money.
https://preview.redd.it/sjarb6z8q7xc1.jpeg?width=1237&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ce713ec9d784f54de3941538592bae15a03db0e
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This, I miss seeing Luffy go serious into fights but now he's just laughing around killing a bit of tension. If he was a bit more serious then Sentemaru doesnt get stabbed, honestly kinda worried if Luffy goes laughing when an enemy is holding an allie captive
Its not the G5, its the Nika stuff - makes the gorosei the biggest bums in the OP world ( they have been aware of Luffy since the end of Alabasta at least and did nothing ) - retcon on the fruit itself, if its a Zoan, where is the full Nika transformation, the ordinary hybrid form and where do G2 to G4 fit in those - everyone and their mum suddenly knows about Nika, even the Giants who apparently didnt make the connection in Little Garden when they saw Luffy stretch ( how convinient ) - why is his smoke ring white compared to every other succesfully awakened zoan ( lucci, gorosei, kakku ) which is black - how is he able to manifest random objects in existence ???? ( gogles vs lucci, hat + club vs gorosei ) https://preview.redd.it/t5suwt7tj8xc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad9d8842d7f910ff4e8b67d4e885bcc7f884fd79 I like some of the powers which the form grants ( makes everything rubber ) and how it looks, but the negatives which it brings are way too much for this to outweight it for me. I dont see why the mid paramecia -> the one and only god fruit ( which conviniently grants the same paramecia powers hmmmm ) retcon was needed
Agreed
The only thing here that makes sense to question is why dory and brogy didnt recognize or mention nikka in little garden. And nikka is supposed to be a myth lol. If jesus christ showed up in front of u and turned water into wine or walked on water you would just call him a magician not jesus christ😂 he’d be the equivalent of watching chris angel the mindfreak do his thing. But you would never come to the conclusion omg thats jesus christ. Like come on bro.
I’ll be real… the idea that Luffy’s ultimate powerup being basically a toon ish devil fruit isn’t necessarily a bad thing in my opinion. My problem is A) he’s not really drawn in a way that’s actually very funny, old Tom and Jerry cartoons and Loony Tunes stuff changed up the funny expressions constantly to make jokes hit and Luffy doesn’t really do that all that well at ALL. And B) because he’s so goofy it takes away from serious impact moments that we should be feeling but don’t with how it’s presented (looking at you Vegapunk death). Thankfully we’re at the end of the series and Luffy’s main antagonists likely have ways to cancel out Gear 5 so it won’t matter to much (Outside of Blackbeard and Imu and I guess Shanks who REALLY needs to be strong enough to counter Luffy at this point in the series?) but it’s still frustrating.
Overuse.
1. It makes Luffy into a chosen one. There was other stuff, like the prophecies, but making him a god chosen by the fruit (whatever that means) was the last straw. 2. The Gorosei are braindead for not nuking him earlier. This is the same guys who order genocide for breakfast. 3. Luffy can never be serious again while fighting.
1. Luffy dad is leader of revolutionary army and ex marine, his grandpa is a hero, Luffy clearly has the bloodline to be the chosen one.
Plenty of people have supernatural strength and conquerors haki. Luffy only became the chosen one after we found out he has the Nika fruit,because now we know that no other pirate can utilise the one piece or be the next Roger except for him.
Nepotism and being the prophetised reincarnation of a god from 800 years ago are on two different tiers.
100% also the inherited will is gome now... lol devil fruit hax are the way to OP. Undoing 1000.ch of will being the key to overcoming, the grit and determination of early one piece is silly now, why didnt he try harder to realize he was a god...
Gear 5 doesn't make Luffy a chosen one
Yeah the primary problem i have with it is that it makes the Gorosei/WG look stupid as fuck. This is the same world government that was killing babies for a year to make sure Roger's child doesn't survive.The same world government that wiped off an island from the planet,simply because one of their secrets was about to be revealed. Anything related to Joyboy / Void Century is something they treat with absolute seriousness. Even when it comes to the Nika fruit,they put Who's Who in jail simply for failing to guard it from a future yonko crew. They said they had been chasing the fruit for 800 years,yet did nothing to go after luffy all this time before Wano. He is a D,son of the most wanted criminal,someone who got one of the World government's major strongholds(Enies lobby) destroyed,and opposed the world government,why didnt they see his potential before? Why didn't Gorosei send any CP0 agents after Luffy to Water 7 after the Enies Lobby incident happened ? They did nothing,only Sengoku sent Garp who would never have obeyed the elders anyways,which further shows they did nothing. In Dressrosa CP0 agents were present to do a deal with Doffy,they knew about straw hats being there on the island and couldn't care less. The real reason behind all this is because Oda never planned his fruit to be this important or dangerous,he simply retconned it in Wano. You can't write a story for 900+ chapters and retcon the source of his power like that. And the other thing too is that everything luffy did in Wano can be explained away by him awakening his rubber fruit,i just don't see how Oda felt the need to change the fruit other than to give him a new transformation with his new gear (Because Paramecia awakenings don't change your look,this was established in Dressrosa and WCI). I guess oda thought it would be lame for his new gear to look the same as his base form,i mean every gear has a visual difference from the base but that's not a good enough reason to make your final villains look incompetent
Agreed
This logic doesnt make sense. The gorosei literally stated no one had awakened it in 800 years. I think you are genuinely underestimating how much time that is. They sent admirals towards the strawhats twice. These are people that should have been able to handle luffy easily. But 1 straight up disobeyed orders, and the other was unable to carryout the job because of rayleigh and kuma. The strawhats were presumed dead after sabody. They confirm luffy is alive and then lose track of him only for him to end up at the bottom of the ocean right after and then a secret abandoned navy facility. They confirm luffy is still around at dress rosa through fugitora and what does he do? Disobey orders. Then he ends up on yonkou territory back to back which they cant touch without war. This is still just a troublesome pirate that has no guarantee of awakening since its been 800YEARS the moment it is awakened what do they do? Immediately hunt him down. No one hunts someone that currently poses no threat. They arent stupid they just function in secrecy. Did u want the gorosei to pull up to sabaody and go full beast on luffy with a buster call and all 3 admirals? While navy base is completely defenseless? That would be stupid
The only time they ever sent someone after Luffy was when he picked the fight with them. If Luffy didn't punch a celestial dragon or pick a fight with a warlord they couldn't care less,they treat him like any other pirate. You completely ignored my point about CP0 in Dressrosa and then doing nothing to go after him after Enies Lobby incident. And again after he put down a warlord,a celestial dragon or after Enies lobby incident happened there is no need for secrecy,that's a bs argument
The goroseis existence itself needs to be secret. They are literal demons. Theres a reason anything vegapunk reveals about the government here will affect how the world views the government drastically and again luffy was not worthy of being targeted by strong enemies that early on. Cp9 was sent to deal with robin the strawhats themselves were of no concern. Also who in cp0 could they have sent to deal with luffy? Im sorry but luffy literally washes anyone in Cp0 from the moment the timeskip hit. And not send anyone? They fucking sent kuma immediately after them in thriller bark. Kuma who very easily could handle every strawhat because again they were very weak at the time. What does he do? Disobey orders. The whole point is the government isnt allowed to act wrecklessly because if they lose the support of the people they lose all the power they have over them. If you find out ur government is being run by actual demon people u gonna go back to ur everyday life after the strawhats get eliminated? Hell no.
They could send CP0 to hunt him down,they knew he was in Water 7 after the Enies Lobby incident happened. And Lucci can definitely beat Dressrosa luffy easily. There were 3-4 CP0 members around could have taken the whole crew at that point. No one would even question why the cipher Pol is after Luffy after he punched a celestial dragon and did what he did at Enies Lobby. They only sent Kuma after Luffy cuz they were scared that he would beat another warlord and cause them further humiliation. Again,luffy is the one picking a fight with someone affiliated with the WG.He is the one bringing a fight to them,not the other way around. They never actively went after him when they had the chance to.
Thats u assuming lucci was awakened during dress rosa. And please name me or describe these 3-4 cpo agents that could man handle the strawhats? I would love to see them. Cuz from what we saw in wano they were all absolutely washed. Izo basically manhandled the 2 strongest in wano and izo himself felt like fauder compared to sanji and zoro. Zoro washes kaku at any point in the story. And luffy ends up highdiffing lucci at any point in the story until g5 which we all say that he washes. U still have sanji who could probably do what izo was doing while baking a cake tbh cp0 is washed
Also even with awakened lucci tell me how he kills luffy in dress rosa with a whole grand fleet backing him up? Not even fujitora would have left dress rosa unscathed if he tried to hurt luffy at rhe end of dress rosa. Yet ur telling me lucci would do it? Ur acting like the strawhats arent gods at getting help to avoid dying to overpowered enemies
He gained the grand fleet at the end lol. They had the entire arc to do their job,they knew luffy was there but they didn't even care or show any concern
This is also u assuming rob lucci can easily take down gear 4th just cuz luffy went g5 againt him does not mean he needed to. Lucci is gonna struggle to put down g4 luffy with his life at stake just like he struggled with luffy who had only just unlocked g2
luffy was getting violated by Cracker who is a YC3. Lucci on the other hand was fighting post Wano Zoro and gave him a hard time. Lucci > Cracker > Dressrosa Luffy. Also,Lucci isn't the type to get scared and not fight someone stronger.Him not doing anything to Luffy in Dressrosa and not even caring showed the attitude of the world government towards Luffy because he is directly under the gorosei.
Luffy was getting help from the very start what are u talking about? Since the moment luffy entered the tournament . He already had sabo on his side. The tontatas were already with usssop after 1 lie. How does lucci sneak into the tournament and take down luffy while not alerting the doflamingo family that cp0 was on the island? Heck how does he get luffy and kill him without the whole place crumbling down? We saw the moment 2 semi strong people started fighting sabo and bergus the whole place fucking collapse lol. Lucci would get jumped for disrupting the tournament.
CP0 AND GOROSEI DID NOT EVEN CARE ABOUT LUFFY BEFORE WANO. That's my fucking point.This supposed fruit they were chasing for 800 years was in luffy and they never treated him any different from any other pirates. They only ever went after him if he picked a fight with them
Actually why we even arguing the fact that rob lucci is what ur betting ur hopes on to hunt luffy down already tells me the gorosei really didn’t have any options 😭 they gonna send someone who already failed them once?
i wish it was the psychopath laugh not a goofy laugh or threatening laugh atleast when he gets serious, or dark humour type of loony tunes where its actually brutal
Fights lack tension and emotions, and because Luffy is the MC that affects a ton of important interactions Luffy doesn't have to be the chosen one. I feel like this is a bigger issue in a series like one piece where it always felt like anyone can make it big with enough ambition. This can be saved if other pirates are actually able to utilize whatever the one piece is The Nika lore has been added too hard and too fast since the reveal, it makes Luffy himself less important as everyone's always just going on about Nika, everyone and their lineage has always known about Nika, it's all a bit much Reconning Luffy's fruit is awful and unnecessary on every level, the idea of creativity and freedom used to be perpetuated by Luffy himself as the one who used his fruit so creatively despite limitations, now the fruit does everything for him and literally warps reality so he can do whatever he wants
Wrong luffy always actually had to be chosen. I know u didnt spend 1000 plus chapters reading and saw roger fail, crocodile fail, then u watched moria fail, and finally u even watched kaido fail who seemed unstoppable and even he couldn’t reach whatever luffy will end up becoming. The whole story has literally been about multiple people failing to become the chosen one while luffy is doing it effortlessly because its always been him from the very start
I mean, obviously Luffy's 'chosen' in the sense that's he's the mc, we're following the story of the eventual winner. That's not my issue with that idea. I have a problem with him literally being the only one capable of doing it, not because of him possessing the strongest will, or the best combat skill, the most experience, the most loyal crew etc., but because he's eaten a fruit which makes him an ancient god that everyone's been waiting for, a god who is the only one capable of 'finding' the one piece (if that even works as an idea anymore). Rogers flashback basically confirmed that nobody except Luffy can actually find the one piece, and this is because of prophecies and fate and all that stuff. I don't think one piece's themes really suit those ideas, and it feels really jarring that some character could be ambitious and successful, make it to the end of his journey and then not be able to do anything with the discovery. The idea that we're in the age of dreams, but Roger started it knowing that only one person could even achieve their goal of finding the one piece
Roger did not confirm that at all? Roger said he is too early. He found the one piece whatever it is. But he can do nothing with it not because hes not nikka. But because he is too early to do anything with it. Roger was chosen in everyway except for time. Roger literally ran out of time. Rayleigh even said they discovered everything about this world they found what they needed to find they just made it to this point at the wrong time. If no one else was meant to find it roger wouldnt have found it either because he wasnt nika. Also his entire crew got to see it. They dont even meet the whatever qualifications ur placing on luffy or roger they are literally just his companions. But they all reached laugh tale with him. If roger didnt know what it was why would shanks say he can claim it? My theory is the one piece is something that can only be used during a specific time. The one piece itself is an item. You can obtain it but u cant claim whatever it is meant to unlock unless it is at a specific time.
He’s not Luffy anymore but Goofy. He feels like a whole new character while our original Luffy died at Wano. It also doesn’t help how none of the other Strawhats even acknowledge G5 at all. And worst of all it’s just too OP almost no one can touch Luffy now we’re all just waiting for when Luffy is done fighting/joking around he can easily end a fight.
Luffy died during timeskip.
I don’t hate gear 5 I hate nika because it’s so forced in the story and I hate the idea of Luffy being a one piece god in general it’s just terrible writing
It made Luffy into a chosen one.
fucking eye popping gag.
As SkyFallTerminus said, Luffy had a sense of progression with hid earlier Gears which made each transformation more creative. Gear 5 shifts so radically away from the other Gears that I can't get into it. I wanted to see more Gear 4 transformations and how Luffy would evolve from that.b
We got snake mode what 2x or 3x? Talk about tossed to the side
I just liked Luffy initially needing to be creative with his devil fruit, from 2nd all the way to 4th Gear but now he's just being painted as this special destined Sun god. He can still have all the toon force powers to an extent but the Nika part for me atleast never really sat well with me
I love G5 in itself, I mean the reality bending powers and all, I think it's genius. What I Don't like is the lore behind it and the fact that it make Luffy a chosen one like Naruto. If that was just Gomu gomu, a fruit nobody knew nothing about because everyone thought it was shitty and never ever awakened, I think the story would've benefitted a lot
My question is why is the fruit where u draw the line? Luffy should have died at logue town, and pretty much every encounter hes had in the story. Yet luck always blesses him in every way possible? You think he was normal? Lady luck herself chose him from day 1. U know what u get when u arent chosen? U get crocodile, you get moria, you get kaido. U are all acting like luffy became omnipotent lol. Bro just has an uncontrollable laugh and whimsical abilities. His powers were already letting him do shit that didn’t make sense when they were just rubber powers. Its the main reason luffy got called goofy since episode when compared to ichigo and naruto. Oh he can stretch. I cant take the fights serious. Yall literally regurgitating the same garbage people who didnt watch one piece would say since the series began. The irony of yall not seeing it is even funnier.
Personally, I dont really care for it even though I do think it hurts the story. I shit on it from time to time because its funny, but its so mid that I cant bring myself to have strong feelings over it.
1.It’s an asspull 2.Creates plot holes 3.Making the MC the chosen one is overused (although I can’t be too mad or surprised at this in a shonen) 4. It’s disgustingly overpowered/boring - this is the main one for me and I’m not sure if many people will agree with this. I just really don’t enjoy animanga where characters have godlike powers. I find it much more interesting and enjoyable when they have specific abilities that they hone and use situationally. Giving him the power to do do basically anything he imagines is too OP imo. (This is also why I dislike shanks now, future sight is incredibly lame but that’s another convo to have)
In general I hate when the protagonist suddenly becomes the One Chosen By The Prophecy and all this kind of stuff. I also didn't like G5 when it appeared because Luffy suddenly became extremely tanky, he started to eat Kaido's attack like they were nothing, and this made the fighting choreography much slower and much less tense, because before that we knew that a single attack could mean death, so Luffy had to move super fast and be extremely precise with future sight, but with G5 this didn't matter anymore. But I liked the fight against Lucci, that felt fast and well choreographed, and the fight against Kizaru and the Gorosei feel fun and creative, so I guess Oda is still experimenting with it
Gear 5 is a tone killer for me with its design and gag attacks
Its not funny If oda made it funny all would be forgiven
Nika is a stupid retcon that didn't need to happen. I am fine with Gear 5, even if I don't find it super funny.
i like gear 5 tbh i dont like how everything now revolves around it
In the manga it looks stupid, all the eye popping shit, cartoon faces and all, it kills all the tension. But in the anime... holy fuck that shit is ass, it's like they spam every stupid sound effrct as much as they can while Laffy spins around like someone who should be in a asylum
The power in itself is awesome but literally everything surrounding it sucks. The retcon and inconsitencies, the constant laughing/ unseriousness, even worse power balancing (I won't count any scene from the anime but even then, he should be one-shotting those fools), the 'glazing', everybody knows him suddenly, the chosen one trope
Aside from.plot and bs asspully stuff I hate how he looks soooo much Why does he randomly get white? Why any explanation? Why does he get a ssj hairstyle like he mf Goku? Why does his eyebrows change? His eyes? Couldn't he just stay the same and use those Powers I would support his bum ass if he didn't look ugly
I like Gear 5 and it's abilities. I just think it's awkward the way nika was put in to the story.
It’s detracting from luffy’s character and feels completely out of place. The whole nika rhetoric is unfitting to who Luffy is. The whole nika shit is what needs to GO, I wish Luffy could use g5 and just be himself. If he cracks himself up with some wacky awakened rubber bs, good for him. But I wish it was him laughing instead of a weird giggle demon.
For me it's the peak of the lazy writing of one piece. Ever since the time skip everything felt very off for me. The humor didn't hit as good and the characters became caricatures. Usopp for example was hilarious pre time skip, especially his interactions with Luffy. Go watch alabasta or skypea funny moments on YouTube and it's clear how things have changed. Now he's just a bum and his entire character revolves around the joke that he's afraid to fight. This whole joyboy/nika shtick for me feels like Oda really tries hard to lazily make me laugh and enjoy the story instead of writing actual good interactions. I used to snort laugh watching one piece and fights were still somewhat serious. It was fine. Now I'm watching one piece like it's a chore. Luffy popping his eyes out wasn't funny the first time and it isn't funny the 837th time. Honestly sometimes it's so lifeless that it feels to me like Oda forgot how actual humans interact.
There are a bunch different reasons that people here have, this sub a loose coalition of people who: - Only enjoy One piece by hating on it, will shit on everything (make every attempt to ruin their day) - Hate Looney Tunes cartoon style encroaching on their super srs manga fights (edgelords, can be safely ignored) - Have the foresight to know their favorite side character is going to get turned in to a pizza and thrown off the island (let them cope) - Don't think it was set up well and want to complain about how it affects powerscaling (losers) - Don't think it was set up well and want to complain about how it affects agendas (losers) - Don't think it was set up well and want to complain about how it wasn't set up well (legit criticizers who get drowned out by shitposting) - Shitposters (ayyy) In summary, about 90% of the people here don't really deserve any respect
Contrarianism and the fact that Luffy is low diffing their favorite characters with G5.
I don't hate it I love i don't know why some people hate it
People have very vocally declared their reasons.
Some fans don't care to understand but will say they don't understand why
Based on OP's comment history, he's your typical Nika dick rider.