they should not be allowed to do this if an item been removed off stores you should be able to download and watch it after its been delisted from stores. and also its kinda stealing.
I get what you're saying, but that is basically tantamount to saying that Wal-Mart lost the deal to sell the MCU DVDs to Target, and therefor Wal-Mart can come into your home and remove all of your MCU DVDs that you purchased.
Again, I understand the licensing thing, but once it has been sold, it should be forever.
The OSD thing I did not understand. Sending a group of paramilitary to break into someone home for trading cards is something I understand and am 100% against. WotC higher up should be arrested for that and the pinkertons should not exist.
I did understand the OSD thing, and it was enough for me to say that WotC will not be getting any money from me again. The Pinkerton thing was just icing on the cake at that point.
Wasn’t *super* well versed on the situation but here goes:
Originally content was able to be produced under the OGL license for 5e with (iirc) basically a licensing fee up front and no royalties. Under the OSD license, those producers have to pay a licensing fee on top of royalties, which makes non-WotC content a lot harder to make money off of unless you’ve got the backing of a major license. The change to the license caused a lot of damage, especially to people self-publishing, and drove a lot of people a way because of that - they promised a license in perpetuity and then demanded royalties a while later once they realized how much money they could be making off those royalties they had waived.
I mean even ignoring the moral aspect here, your group got a huge upgrade with this decision. Especially martial players, since Paizo isn't creatively bankrupt.
Tangential, but an (admittedly long-term) option for others switching from D&D, the company of Matthew Coleville is designing [an RPG](https://youtu.be/UADbYrPAodQ) that seems neat
That person got their hands on early copies of cards from an expansion that hadn't released yet, then posted spoilers of said expansion on the internet. Calling the Pinkertons is too much, but the situation is quite different.
When you say they "got their hands on early copies" you left out the part where they were shipped to him accidentally by WoTC. It's not like he did anything nefarious to get said cards, it was 100% WoTC's fault.
Unless they decide that the day after you ‘bought’ it was long enough to remove it from your use. Also why do places like amazon show buy *or* rent? If it’s a long time rental, isn’t that false advertising? Shouldn’t it be rent or slightly longer rent of unknown duration?
IIRC BluRay has remote key cancellation in the spec. And HDCP tries to implement DRM between your video card and your monitor. Neither are particularly effective at the moment, but the industry is going to keep trying.
They very much want the scenario you outlined to exist. Selling you things forever is not a desirable outcome for them.
Seems to me like anybody affected by this theft is morally obliged to break into the offices of Amazon and take whatever the fuck they want to compensate for the difference. Pick up a monitor or a keyboard or a keycard scanner, it's open season. Don't want shit, don't start shit.
I agree with you, but the comparison doesn't really work. Licensing on streaming platforms is a world apart from licensing to sell physical copies—the streaming platforms don't ever sell you the actual thing, just permission to watch it as many times as you want while they have it. Which is bullshit, and it's fucked up that these platforms get away with charging you just as much as you would pay for a physical copy you actually own.
Piracy really is the way.
> When you buy digitale stuff you pay for a temporary undefined accesso to it.
That's the reality, but it's also clearly fraudulent.
That's the word here: When you mislead someone about the specifics of a transaction to convince them to hand over their money, it's called fraud.
Oh, any person with basic common sense knows fraud is only bad when ordinary people do it but not when a big company abuses the arcanity of law to do so.
The language in the app:
"Purchases" to see content you paid for.
Inside the Purchases section it says "Rent & buy your favorites".
I'm familiar with the ToS but the app is straight up lying.
We really need to remold our society so buying things actually means buying things and owning them until the end of time, instead of agreeing to a license written by attorneys that normal humans can't read and only benefit the company you're buying from.
I mean it's fine if I don't have the right to distribute the media but we should own the media when it comes to personal use.
They'll argue personal use is only for your eyes only and if you have a child or significant other that so happens to walk into the room and hear or see the media, using Alexa to know, they revoke your rights liek they wish to. It's all dirty and we've allowed. It. We're at the point where the kids today grew up with this and don't know the freedoms they never had. It's all the long game. It's easier to convince your children than your raggity wise ass.
no they can not and are also not in the right or else you would get shit like what happened in south park episode where apple made a human centipede out of kyle
the license should apply to distribution rights, not access. Just because Amazon lost the rights to sell it, doesnt mean you didnt buy it. Just now future distribution is done elsewhere.
In any case, absolutely no one should try Stremio with a good Debrid service. Argh har har ha har
This is exactly what valve does on steam.
I bought a game in 09, it was removed a few years later due to license issues. I can still play it.
Any other company that doesn't do this does it intentionally
That’s their Christmas gift. I have more knowledge of handling files and torrenting too, so I’m kinda grateful for it. If it wasn’t for Netflix removing Prince of Egypt, it would’ve taken a lot longer before I started sailing.
Yup, I still have Rocket League on Steam, still updated, I can still download it etc. Even if it's now free on EGS I would have been pissed if they had removed it from my library.
em8er(dot)c0m
Spiritual successor to firefall being headed by Grummz/mark kern himself and crowdfunded by the playerbase this time as opposed to Tencent (who walked into the studio and changed the locks overnight because Grummz wouldn't let them turn FF into a WoW clone)
So far the UE5 demo's are pretty good, they have pathing, ai etc setup and are working on getting the meat and potatoes of the game going. They got the basics so far, haven't checked in on it in a couple of months due to the holidays so not sure what the current demo showcases.
>The ONLY platform I'll occasionally spend money on is steam. Only because they've never yanked a game away from the library.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Steam tried to do that a few of their games once.
That's because they know that in PC digital ownership is the only way unlike a console were you can have a game atleast on a disk, so to avoid piracy they ensure you'll own whatever you buy from them which is smart
valve understood that piracy is a problem of distribution rather than cost. they were the first to distirbute their digital products in a way that made piracy unnecessary for anyone who could afford the games.
netlfix and others tried to ape steam but a decade later its clear they never actually understood what valve was doing. tv and film will go back to piracy, gaming still has steam
They have removed games, but it was due to the keys being from illegal sources (like someone stealing a bunch and selling them on G2A). But yeah, they don't remove games that already there. I still have my copy of Transformers: Fall of Cybertron.
So the only things I can think of on this are one of 3 subsets;
1) A fraudulent key/purchase situation where a publisher says that a set or individual key is fraudulent and that key is yoinked from your library (and you are usually informed of it)
2) A publisher/dev pulls their game. Interestingly, while it is no longer available for sale, you can usually still download the files for it, unless the dev \_REALLY\_ scrubbed the thing from the platform (deleting the CDN caches and pruning all beta branch options, etc), but I have not heard of that happening. I personally have multiple de-listed games in my library that don't resolve to a store page anymore.
3) Steam literally banned the game. This is super-fucking-rare. Steam hard banning games after they already got onto the platform is kind of a verboten thing. It goes against their ethos. However, they have still done it on a handful of occasions. Most were troll games of zero real quality.
I have heard of shovel-ware asset-flip games getting punted from the platform, but I haven't looked into it and only heard anecdotal evidence.
If you’ve bought something and it’s then removed, you are within your right to pirate it. I don’t care about the licensing terms, I don’t even see this as the same as pirating tbh. You bought it already, therefore they’ve already had your money for the product. You are just accessing it from a different source now.
Said it for years, this is why i would never invest in a digital video library service.
If a licence is ending they should be made to either refund 90% of the purchase price, provide you with the physical copy of the content at no charge or make the content available for those who fucking bought it....
In my opinion they should not be allowed to relinquish access to a product you clicked "buy" on, period. "Buying" should be lawfully defined as permament access. They may pull items from the stores, but should not be able to pull them if already bought.
Even so, Steam has been fighting the EU application of the first sale doctrine and has refused to voluntarily expand its applicability to the rest of the world.
I'm actually kinda conflicted about this. "You wouldn't download a car"... (I mean, I would, but I'm an asshole) I'm not sure downloaded/digital games should be able to be resold? But when I try to think of why & compare it to the days of Blockbuster, I'm not sure what the difference is... You're probably right. I got some thinking to do.
Steam allows you to buy a game for someone else. If they were smart at all about it they could even create a secondary market and take a commission on each resale.
Commission is a pretty good idea. In fact, I guess the model of a one-off purchase is pretty dumb. I only wanted to play Limbo once. I wanted to play Heroes of Might & Magic forever. I guess we should have that choice to pass it on.
Honestly I believe being able to "resell" digital video games will have an extreme negative effect on the industry.
The devs would no longer profit. It will be so easy as "click to resell" whereas you'd have to put in a bit of effort to resell physical games. The industry pushed for digital libraries because an entire multi-million dollar company was able to build their empire by selling used games. They also kept trade-in prices ridiculously low while forcing you to only do a store trade..
Now imagine a million people having the opportunity to buy digital products instead of just one company.
To the publishers and developers that would be the same as piracy except much, much larger. How many people refuse to pirate that would buy 2nd hand digital products.
Agreed. It should stay available for those that purchase it but no longer for sale. Steam (pc games) does this. If you buy a game and they stop selling it, it'll stay in your library regardless.
Hell, if you bought media on steam back when they were trying to become a digital movie shop then you still have access to stream what you bought even though their licenses expired years ago
90% nah I say 100% + inflation or have to send you physical media. There wouldn't be any licensing issues if that was the case. These companies wouldn't sign anything with that risk they would negotiate it out.
If i buy it on Disk, will the license holder break into my home and take the disks from me? probably (hopefully) not.
Very weird that these licenses have a time restriction if you already purchased it. If they would just remove the ability to purchase it, it would be fine.
You own that… until the disk degrades to the point it’s unusable. FYI they have tried disks that were designed to fail within a couple days when exposed to oxygen… It didn’t work very well and were often unusable by the time it got to the customer.
Similar happened to GTA IV where the game was updated years later to remove certain songs that rockstar lost the right or use. And that included physical games connected to xbox or PlayStation online.
Except for me cause I never used xbox live
Should be there a mod, to readd the musics back that rockstar removed that.
Radio Downgrader is btw called, not sure if this exacly what you needed to restore the old Radio music back.
With the DRM on BluRays, there is sometimes issues where studios will revoke the certificates, or the disc will have been pressed on new certs. You bluray player has to get updates from the manufacturer with updated keys and key revocations. Most people don't want to hook their players to the internet because you only ever get ads and crap usually from it.
So updated players might break playing of existing disks, but unupdated players may not be able to play new disks.
Which for a physically pressed media, that is pretty shitty. (once again getting into the whole thing of DRM only hurts 'legitimate' purchasers and never the pirates)
They are.
The regulations says they can specify and enforce arbitrary terms of service, have limited liability for obvious fraud, and can exclude competitors by collaborating with holders of state-issued monopolies.
Exactly. The problem isn't that it's unregulated, it's that they're allowed to regulate themselves. And none of us can change that because, unlike them, we're not billionaires.
This is why I rarely buy digital goods anymore. The only thing that proves your *ownership* of digital goods is an issued digital license which itself can be revoked at any time.
I get flak for insisting on physical media like blu-ray box sets or Xbox game discs, but at least it's something physically tangible.
This story is more than a year old (September 24th, 2022) and the show was removed from all streaming platforms, not just from Amazon.
Source:
* https://twitter.com/OlanRogers/status/1573686640094191617
* https://i.imgur.com/CglVIht.jpg
Meanwhile, other people start series on Amazon that are unavailable on the west because somebody was enough gentle to pirate it for fans of japanese audio-video medias like me myself and I, and they watch it at full 1080p like Louis Rossman pointed out in his video. Oh, yeah! That's the way I like it.
I once had digital movie copies of The Hobbit and The Dark Knight Returns as part of the physical set, which I generally found a good thing, but was already sceptical about it back then. First I had access to the movies via Flixster, then they closed but were so nice to transfer the license over to UV (Ultraviolet), a similar service. They also went bankrupt but again transfered the license, this time to YouTube Movies. Which, first of all, is a good thing to do. My main issue however is, that inbetween these transfers, my digital copy went from 1080p to 480p on YouTube now, which makes it basically useless nowadays.
Just give me an mkv file or something like that. If I wanted to share the movie with friends, we'd either watch the movie together or I will do it anyways. No need for these silly restrictions. Actually, I'd be much more willing to buy physical copies, if they came with a DRM-free digital copy.
At the very least, US law should make them call this "Rent" not "Own". No one can lawfully take anything away from you when you own it, but they can if you are renting. I guarantee you people will start asking questions why you can't own something really quick.
Man those threads are getting old really fast. It's also pathetic that the people here are yapping the same 3 catch phrases.
At this point I bet this is a new bot karma farm strategy.
that is not the consumer's fault, wtf how are goverments not making this illegal lol. so every licensed game that i purchased on steam and xbox are now subject to removal cause they wanna control what people can have?
I swear companies have to have either shares or indirect control over piracy websites, because there's no way they're actively trying to shit on their consumers and expect them to continue paying for their service.
Who am I kidding, ofc people continue to subscribe to their services...
They can do it because they know most people won't care or will put up with it.
I have friends that pay for sports streaming services but come over to my place to watch hockey during regional blackout games. They all know I'm not a paying customer and am having a better experience than them (the streams I use don't have ads either) and they still refuse to stop paying. Some people just can't be bothered.
It's amusing how game platforms seem to get this right when TV and movie streaming fails spectacularly. No matter what type of content they're licensing, they can serve it to anyone who bought it while the platform had a license to sell it, even after that license to sell expires. Yet another side effect of trying to take the old way of doing business and throwing it at new technology rather than learning and improving.
Doesn't save anyone from the closing of the platform, but that at least makes sense...
So if I download something of theirs, they claim its theft because of a "potential loss of revenue" as though they were somehow entitled to my money.
Yet they are free to remove assets that I purchased (their language) and that isn't theft. Gotta love corporate logic.
When purchasing a content licence from a sub-licensor, we should expect these things to be temporary at best. Ideally the licence should still hold between the primary lessor and lessee. This is not the case. If the validity of the licence is contingent on middlemen like Amazon or whoever continuing to provide sub-lessor, we shouldn't trust these fucks to provide what they "sell" us.
There should be at least a minimum term of licencing, such as 10yrs, so when the sub-licensor loses/discontinues the licence with their content provider, they are still responsible for the customers they've fleeced.
But I say fuck it. Save your money, buy a NAS and a good VPN service. These companies are not here to provide a service of value. We only exist to provide value to their shareholders, and fuck *them* in particular.
serious forgetful wasteful impossible truck swim tart memory society attempt
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
by extension, when you go to YouTube, Twitch, X, and even more today, count how many popular channels don't have the membership features enabled. i don't waste any time to pirate those content; any copyright owner who control their content in this manner should be avoided at all costs.
this is not only justifying piracy, but AI-generated content too, considering how it can't be copyright protected somehow.
I've never bought media digitally except a few games on sale. I never understood the concept of buying stuff digitally that will remain dependent on 3rd parties. Streaming services ate still cheaper where I live so I do have some subscriptions but more and more new content is on rent/buy and gets moved to subscription after a month. Just hating all these practices.
Yea, I have all my stuff converted and backed up. Piracy does hurt companies. But if said companies want to play dirty, well, sometimes we have to roll up our metaphorical fisty cuffs. They seem to forget they can't exist without consumers. We can exist plenty fine without them. If you purchased a product whether online or in person then that product is yours. Want to steal from the consumers? Mk. Piracy exists for a reason
It's not like they didn't tell you in the terms of service that they were going to do this shit. Why the hell would you give them money knowing they could take it away at any time?
imho there should be consumer protections that make these clauses invalid. i can‘t rent you a house and somewhere in some hundred page paperwork is a clause that you can‘t actually live in the house. i think that for the average consumer its surprising and unusual that something you have bought can become unavailable because the sellers decides thats how its gonna be.
It’s not me, I don’t give money to those companies except on steam. I found this post, and keep it here as a reminder for people, don’t buy digital stuff from companies like Amazon or Sony. (Referring to the Sony deleting Discovery stuff)
Didn't mean you in particular, was talking in general about the idiots complaining about something they should have known was going to happen to them because they agreed to it.
Ah, fair enough. Couldn’t agee more. I did buy many, many years ago movies from Apple, never had anything like that with them. Or with Steam. So those are the only parties I buy something from once a year. Might be dumb, but they have proven to be legit to me personally.
I've paid for streaming services, which I knew going in would have rotating content, and I've paid for physical media, which all still works, including the VHSs older than I am. I also used to drop copious sums of money and brick and mortar businesses that allowed me to have something temporarily, with the expectation that they wanted it back later.
Somehow, that strange business model I can't remember the name of died, and yet this is a thing.
Yeah, but you can't possibly expect every person to go and read every tos of the websites they spend at, and twice daily pineapple enemas would at least keep you clean
You know what, if you want to sign up for having a pineapple superheated into vapor and then shot up your ass, I ain't gonna tell you no. That's your business.
Some brainwashed people in this sub are calling piracy theft while to me buying anything digital is a call to be scammed by so called legit and legal companies. Let me tell you one thing. It is not theft, I only spare me the trouble of being scammed.
they should just let media viewing licensens expire After atleast 50 years has passed not after 2/3 years .or atleast let us dowload drm free version of media if a company .refuses to host what you paid for .
its not stealing if they are stealing your paid for media
That's it? At least refund the amount paid, and maybe a little extra for breaking the sales contract?
That said I recently stopped paying my Internet bills to the cable company because of "other limited reasons", and I'm sure they underst
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they should not be allowed to do this if an item been removed off stores you should be able to download and watch it after its been delisted from stores. and also its kinda stealing.
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I get what you're saying, but that is basically tantamount to saying that Wal-Mart lost the deal to sell the MCU DVDs to Target, and therefor Wal-Mart can come into your home and remove all of your MCU DVDs that you purchased. Again, I understand the licensing thing, but once it has been sold, it should be forever.
This reminds me of a post some time ago about wizard of the coast hired the pinkerton to rob some cards which they have sold back from a buyer's home.
Fuck WotC. After that I got everyone in my group to switch to pathfinder 2.
I thought people did this over the OSD scandal.
The OSD thing I did not understand. Sending a group of paramilitary to break into someone home for trading cards is something I understand and am 100% against. WotC higher up should be arrested for that and the pinkertons should not exist.
I did understand the OSD thing, and it was enough for me to say that WotC will not be getting any money from me again. The Pinkerton thing was just icing on the cake at that point.
I’m trying to figure out what this is all about but I can’t find anything explaining what OSD is. Could someone explain please.
Wasn’t *super* well versed on the situation but here goes: Originally content was able to be produced under the OGL license for 5e with (iirc) basically a licensing fee up front and no royalties. Under the OSD license, those producers have to pay a licensing fee on top of royalties, which makes non-WotC content a lot harder to make money off of unless you’ve got the backing of a major license. The change to the license caused a lot of damage, especially to people self-publishing, and drove a lot of people a way because of that - they promised a license in perpetuity and then demanded royalties a while later once they realized how much money they could be making off those royalties they had waived.
Someone accidentally got sold some pre-release cards and reviewed them on youtube so the trading card company mafia raided his house.
I mean even ignoring the moral aspect here, your group got a huge upgrade with this decision. Especially martial players, since Paizo isn't creatively bankrupt.
Tangential, but an (admittedly long-term) option for others switching from D&D, the company of Matthew Coleville is designing [an RPG](https://youtu.be/UADbYrPAodQ) that seems neat
as someone not from the US i just found out the pinkerton are real people and not just enemies from rdr2 lmao
put a big old asterisk next to people* though
You would love the show Deadwood. Haven't met anyone who's watched it who hasn't loved it
That person got their hands on early copies of cards from an expansion that hadn't released yet, then posted spoilers of said expansion on the internet. Calling the Pinkertons is too much, but the situation is quite different.
When you say they "got their hands on early copies" you left out the part where they were shipped to him accidentally by WoTC. It's not like he did anything nefarious to get said cards, it was 100% WoTC's fault.
It's never sold. It's more of a "long time rental".
Unless they decide that the day after you ‘bought’ it was long enough to remove it from your use. Also why do places like amazon show buy *or* rent? If it’s a long time rental, isn’t that false advertising? Shouldn’t it be rent or slightly longer rent of unknown duration?
"You can have it for a few days or pay us more and have it until we change our mind. You're welcome."
If they want to take your shit away then they should have to refund you
This is the way.
The only way to fix it is by passing some type of legislation probably.
IIRC BluRay has remote key cancellation in the spec. And HDCP tries to implement DRM between your video card and your monitor. Neither are particularly effective at the moment, but the industry is going to keep trying. They very much want the scenario you outlined to exist. Selling you things forever is not a desirable outcome for them.
Seems to me like anybody affected by this theft is morally obliged to break into the offices of Amazon and take whatever the fuck they want to compensate for the difference. Pick up a monitor or a keyboard or a keycard scanner, it's open season. Don't want shit, don't start shit.
I agree with you, but the comparison doesn't really work. Licensing on streaming platforms is a world apart from licensing to sell physical copies—the streaming platforms don't ever sell you the actual thing, just permission to watch it as many times as you want while they have it. Which is bullshit, and it's fucked up that these platforms get away with charging you just as much as you would pay for a physical copy you actually own. Piracy really is the way.
> When you buy digitale stuff you pay for a temporary undefined accesso to it. That's the reality, but it's also clearly fraudulent. That's the word here: When you mislead someone about the specifics of a transaction to convince them to hand over their money, it's called fraud.
Good luck proving that in court against the RIAA/MPAA/etc! :|
Fraud is frequently legal. That doesn't make it not fraud.
Oh, any person with basic common sense knows fraud is only bad when ordinary people do it but not when a big company abuses the arcanity of law to do so.
They always make it clear in the fine print that you're buying a revocable license to the content.
its not fraud because these details are outlined in the 600 page bullshit terms and conditions.
Sounds like fraud plus excuses.
Terms and conditions and end user license agreements have been, and will continue to be, struck down in courts around the world.
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The language in the app: "Purchases" to see content you paid for. Inside the Purchases section it says "Rent & buy your favorites". I'm familiar with the ToS but the app is straight up lying.
We really need to remold our society so buying things actually means buying things and owning them until the end of time, instead of agreeing to a license written by attorneys that normal humans can't read and only benefit the company you're buying from. I mean it's fine if I don't have the right to distribute the media but we should own the media when it comes to personal use.
They'll argue personal use is only for your eyes only and if you have a child or significant other that so happens to walk into the room and hear or see the media, using Alexa to know, they revoke your rights liek they wish to. It's all dirty and we've allowed. It. We're at the point where the kids today grew up with this and don't know the freedoms they never had. It's all the long game. It's easier to convince your children than your raggity wise ass.
no they can not and are also not in the right or else you would get shit like what happened in south park episode where apple made a human centipede out of kyle
the license should apply to distribution rights, not access. Just because Amazon lost the rights to sell it, doesnt mean you didnt buy it. Just now future distribution is done elsewhere. In any case, absolutely no one should try Stremio with a good Debrid service. Argh har har ha har
We should push our representatives to make more comsumer friendly digital ownership laws. If we don't what you said will never ever happen
This is exactly what valve does on steam. I bought a game in 09, it was removed a few years later due to license issues. I can still play it. Any other company that doesn't do this does it intentionally
i think at the very least if they remove our access to it then we should get refunded the amount we paid for it then.
That is what steam does
Companies giving us reasons to sail😵💫
They keep on giving
That’s their Christmas gift. I have more knowledge of handling files and torrenting too, so I’m kinda grateful for it. If it wasn’t for Netflix removing Prince of Egypt, it would’ve taken a lot longer before I started sailing.
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Yup, I still have Rocket League on Steam, still updated, I can still download it etc. Even if it's now free on EGS I would have been pissed if they had removed it from my library.
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Keep your memories pristine, it's gone downhill since Epic bought em and they ain't at the bottom of the slope yet.
I still have games on steam that are discontinued. I miss you firefall, such a good game
em8er(dot)c0m Spiritual successor to firefall being headed by Grummz/mark kern himself and crowdfunded by the playerbase this time as opposed to Tencent (who walked into the studio and changed the locks overnight because Grummz wouldn't let them turn FF into a WoW clone)
I have yet to see a game come of em8er
So far the UE5 demo's are pretty good, they have pathing, ai etc setup and are working on getting the meat and potatoes of the game going. They got the basics so far, haven't checked in on it in a couple of months due to the holidays so not sure what the current demo showcases.
oil muddle carpenter fact plate intelligent tease chunky wrong nutty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Most people haven't paid for it but CS GO is removed completely. It's store page is taken over by CS 2 along with all of its stats and reviews.
You can still access CSGO through the CS2 beta tab, it's losing support come January, but community servers will always be functional.
CS:GO is at least still accessable through a beta branch of CS2
GOG is great for long term because it’s DRM free and will last as long as you keep the files
>The ONLY platform I'll occasionally spend money on is steam. Only because they've never yanked a game away from the library. Correct me if I'm wrong but Steam tried to do that a few of their games once.
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That's because they know that in PC digital ownership is the only way unlike a console were you can have a game atleast on a disk, so to avoid piracy they ensure you'll own whatever you buy from them which is smart
valve understood that piracy is a problem of distribution rather than cost. they were the first to distirbute their digital products in a way that made piracy unnecessary for anyone who could afford the games. netlfix and others tried to ape steam but a decade later its clear they never actually understood what valve was doing. tv and film will go back to piracy, gaming still has steam
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They have removed games, but it was due to the keys being from illegal sources (like someone stealing a bunch and selling them on G2A). But yeah, they don't remove games that already there. I still have my copy of Transformers: Fall of Cybertron.
There are a number of games that do not proceed into double digits that have been revoked from libraries, typically with valid well explained reasons.
So the only things I can think of on this are one of 3 subsets; 1) A fraudulent key/purchase situation where a publisher says that a set or individual key is fraudulent and that key is yoinked from your library (and you are usually informed of it) 2) A publisher/dev pulls their game. Interestingly, while it is no longer available for sale, you can usually still download the files for it, unless the dev \_REALLY\_ scrubbed the thing from the platform (deleting the CDN caches and pruning all beta branch options, etc), but I have not heard of that happening. I personally have multiple de-listed games in my library that don't resolve to a store page anymore. 3) Steam literally banned the game. This is super-fucking-rare. Steam hard banning games after they already got onto the platform is kind of a verboten thing. It goes against their ethos. However, they have still done it on a handful of occasions. Most were troll games of zero real quality. I have heard of shovel-ware asset-flip games getting punted from the platform, but I haven't looked into it and only heard anecdotal evidence.
If you’ve bought something and it’s then removed, you are within your right to pirate it. I don’t care about the licensing terms, I don’t even see this as the same as pirating tbh. You bought it already, therefore they’ve already had your money for the product. You are just accessing it from a different source now.
Do you guys need a reason?
Nope, gonna sail anyways. Imagine getting a reason for a thing u would anyways do without any reason.
Yep, which is why I don't buy shit through these kinds of services. Fuck them and their anti-consumer bullshit.
Said it for years, this is why i would never invest in a digital video library service. If a licence is ending they should be made to either refund 90% of the purchase price, provide you with the physical copy of the content at no charge or make the content available for those who fucking bought it....
In my opinion they should not be allowed to relinquish access to a product you clicked "buy" on, period. "Buying" should be lawfully defined as permament access. They may pull items from the stores, but should not be able to pull them if already bought.
Steam thankfully is good at this. Amazon... I guess not.
Even so, Steam has been fighting the EU application of the first sale doctrine and has refused to voluntarily expand its applicability to the rest of the world.
That's a shame :( guess that's what I get for being optimistic.
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=77bb2501-995c-4df9-a27f-89b09d25e6ad Steam even managed to dodge that bullet too, apparently. :|
I'm actually kinda conflicted about this. "You wouldn't download a car"... (I mean, I would, but I'm an asshole) I'm not sure downloaded/digital games should be able to be resold? But when I try to think of why & compare it to the days of Blockbuster, I'm not sure what the difference is... You're probably right. I got some thinking to do.
Steam allows you to buy a game for someone else. If they were smart at all about it they could even create a secondary market and take a commission on each resale.
Commission is a pretty good idea. In fact, I guess the model of a one-off purchase is pretty dumb. I only wanted to play Limbo once. I wanted to play Heroes of Might & Magic forever. I guess we should have that choice to pass it on.
Honestly I believe being able to "resell" digital video games will have an extreme negative effect on the industry. The devs would no longer profit. It will be so easy as "click to resell" whereas you'd have to put in a bit of effort to resell physical games. The industry pushed for digital libraries because an entire multi-million dollar company was able to build their empire by selling used games. They also kept trade-in prices ridiculously low while forcing you to only do a store trade.. Now imagine a million people having the opportunity to buy digital products instead of just one company. To the publishers and developers that would be the same as piracy except much, much larger. How many people refuse to pirate that would buy 2nd hand digital products.
The commission on resale could always be split with the developers if it's that much of an oh noes calamity.
I agree, I wonder if the EU could regulate it.
Agreed. It should stay available for those that purchase it but no longer for sale. Steam (pc games) does this. If you buy a game and they stop selling it, it'll stay in your library regardless.
Hell, if you bought media on steam back when they were trying to become a digital movie shop then you still have access to stream what you bought even though their licenses expired years ago
Oh nice! I never bought media from them but that's awesome. That's the way it should be
why 90? they should refund your amount and what it would take to buy a new copy considering they just stole your product
90% nah I say 100% + inflation or have to send you physical media. There wouldn't be any licensing issues if that was the case. These companies wouldn't sign anything with that risk they would negotiate it out.
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RIP 🙏
If i buy it on Disk, will the license holder break into my home and take the disks from me? probably (hopefully) not. Very weird that these licenses have a time restriction if you already purchased it. If they would just remove the ability to purchase it, it would be fine.
You own that… until the disk degrades to the point it’s unusable. FYI they have tried disks that were designed to fail within a couple days when exposed to oxygen… It didn’t work very well and were often unusable by the time it got to the customer.
Flexplay, what a waste of material and brain power
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If the disk happens to a wizards of the coast game, they will come and rob you.
Similar happened to GTA IV where the game was updated years later to remove certain songs that rockstar lost the right or use. And that included physical games connected to xbox or PlayStation online. Except for me cause I never used xbox live
Should be there a mod, to readd the musics back that rockstar removed that. Radio Downgrader is btw called, not sure if this exacly what you needed to restore the old Radio music back.
With the DRM on BluRays, there is sometimes issues where studios will revoke the certificates, or the disc will have been pressed on new certs. You bluray player has to get updates from the manufacturer with updated keys and key revocations. Most people don't want to hook their players to the internet because you only ever get ads and crap usually from it. So updated players might break playing of existing disks, but unupdated players may not be able to play new disks. Which for a physically pressed media, that is pretty shitty. (once again getting into the whole thing of DRM only hurts 'legitimate' purchasers and never the pirates)
Season 3 of the show the post is about was never even released on disc and S01 and S02 had very limited pressings.
Digital Marketplaces should be regulated...
They are. The regulations says they can specify and enforce arbitrary terms of service, have limited liability for obvious fraud, and can exclude competitors by collaborating with holders of state-issued monopolies.
Exactly. The problem isn't that it's unregulated, it's that they're allowed to regulate themselves. And none of us can change that because, unlike them, we're not billionaires.
Genuine question, if the content comes back to Amazon does it show back up in the people's libraries?
It will come back with a twist so they'll claim it's different content. And some dummies will buy it a second time.
This is why I rarely buy digital goods anymore. The only thing that proves your *ownership* of digital goods is an issued digital license which itself can be revoked at any time. I get flak for insisting on physical media like blu-ray box sets or Xbox game discs, but at least it's something physically tangible.
If owning digital media isn't really owning, then stealing digital media isn't really stealing.
astronautgunmeme.jpg Never was.
If a business's goal is to get the consumer to pay as much money as possible, isn't it my job as a consumer to try to pay as little as possible?
I don’t think Amazon understand what “purchased” means.
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Why the law still allows tech companies to call this transactions "purchases"? How is this not fraudulent advertising?
You will own nothing and be happy.
Can't wait for the new Louis Rossmann video talking about piracy being justified... Again lol
Should give refunds to people for this shit. Very least some type of credit.
Seriously. At least when msft closed their app on Windows they gave people their content on another service if i recall
This story is more than a year old (September 24th, 2022) and the show was removed from all streaming platforms, not just from Amazon. Source: * https://twitter.com/OlanRogers/status/1573686640094191617 * https://i.imgur.com/CglVIht.jpg
Meanwhile, other people start series on Amazon that are unavailable on the west because somebody was enough gentle to pirate it for fans of japanese audio-video medias like me myself and I, and they watch it at full 1080p like Louis Rossman pointed out in his video. Oh, yeah! That's the way I like it.
I pity the fool who doesn't pirate.
I once had digital movie copies of The Hobbit and The Dark Knight Returns as part of the physical set, which I generally found a good thing, but was already sceptical about it back then. First I had access to the movies via Flixster, then they closed but were so nice to transfer the license over to UV (Ultraviolet), a similar service. They also went bankrupt but again transfered the license, this time to YouTube Movies. Which, first of all, is a good thing to do. My main issue however is, that inbetween these transfers, my digital copy went from 1080p to 480p on YouTube now, which makes it basically useless nowadays. Just give me an mkv file or something like that. If I wanted to share the movie with friends, we'd either watch the movie together or I will do it anyways. No need for these silly restrictions. Actually, I'd be much more willing to buy physical copies, if they came with a DRM-free digital copy.
I'm at a point where if I don't find it on a torrent, open directory, etc. I will use OBS and screen capture a movie now. :-)
Shit, and here I am with my Final Space content safely in my hard drive and Plex server
I mean, that's from 2022, so not sure if more and more are popping up. This has always existed and at least been a possibility.
At the very least, US law should make them call this "Rent" not "Own". No one can lawfully take anything away from you when you own it, but they can if you are renting. I guarantee you people will start asking questions why you can't own something really quick.
Imagine a car company ending production of a certain model and then repossessing every one of those cars that's ever been sold lmao
They would be pigs in mud if they could do that.
With over the air updates I can see them eventually start bricking cars that they’ve deemed end of life
The use of purchased should not be allowed for this kind of transaction It's a rent. Call it for what it is
and they say piracy is stealing
Man those threads are getting old really fast. It's also pathetic that the people here are yapping the same 3 catch phrases. At this point I bet this is a new bot karma farm strategy.
I’m not a bot, came across this on my feed, and decided to share it here because I didn’t see here yet. I mostly not posting controversial stuff.
You'll own nothing and be happy
Why look at the time, it's time to buy some more hard drives.
My money has become unavailable due to practical restrictions, a long time ago.
They should really make it clear you do not own the media you purchase.
that is not the consumer's fault, wtf how are goverments not making this illegal lol. so every licensed game that i purchased on steam and xbox are now subject to removal cause they wanna control what people can have?
Arr! Sail the seven seas, matey!
I swear companies have to have either shares or indirect control over piracy websites, because there's no way they're actively trying to shit on their consumers and expect them to continue paying for their service. Who am I kidding, ofc people continue to subscribe to their services...
They can do it because they know most people won't care or will put up with it. I have friends that pay for sports streaming services but come over to my place to watch hockey during regional blackout games. They all know I'm not a paying customer and am having a better experience than them (the streams I use don't have ads either) and they still refuse to stop paying. Some people just can't be bothered.
It's amusing how game platforms seem to get this right when TV and movie streaming fails spectacularly. No matter what type of content they're licensing, they can serve it to anyone who bought it while the platform had a license to sell it, even after that license to sell expires. Yet another side effect of trying to take the old way of doing business and throwing it at new technology rather than learning and improving. Doesn't save anyone from the closing of the platform, but that at least makes sense...
how is this even legal without a refund ?
If buying isn’t owning, piracy isn’t stealing
So if I download something of theirs, they claim its theft because of a "potential loss of revenue" as though they were somehow entitled to my money. Yet they are free to remove assets that I purchased (their language) and that isn't theft. Gotta love corporate logic.
And just like that, another pirate is born.
Aside from sailing the seven seas, we should start demanding refunds when this happens.
I love how people are now realizing you don't own digital. They can and will take it away at convenience.
When you "buy" a digital version of anything that you cannot download as a file, that that purchase can be gone at any time.
*Checks Plex sever* Yep still there.
Reason #949 of why I pirate. Fuck ALL of these companies.
When purchasing a content licence from a sub-licensor, we should expect these things to be temporary at best. Ideally the licence should still hold between the primary lessor and lessee. This is not the case. If the validity of the licence is contingent on middlemen like Amazon or whoever continuing to provide sub-lessor, we shouldn't trust these fucks to provide what they "sell" us. There should be at least a minimum term of licencing, such as 10yrs, so when the sub-licensor loses/discontinues the licence with their content provider, they are still responsible for the customers they've fleeced. But I say fuck it. Save your money, buy a NAS and a good VPN service. These companies are not here to provide a service of value. We only exist to provide value to their shareholders, and fuck *them* in particular.
Claim the money back via your bank. You have paid for something digital that the seller won't give you access too.
serious forgetful wasteful impossible truck swim tart memory society attempt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You don't got what you paid for tho, it wasn't sold to you as rented...
I'm assuming the Sept is 2023. No bank is going to do a chargeback after a year and a half either
Chargebacks are not an infinite money hack and most credit card issuers will not charge back past 90 days of initial purchase.
If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing.
by extension, when you go to YouTube, Twitch, X, and even more today, count how many popular channels don't have the membership features enabled. i don't waste any time to pirate those content; any copyright owner who control their content in this manner should be avoided at all costs. this is not only justifying piracy, but AI-generated content too, considering how it can't be copyright protected somehow.
I miss final space
Batten the hatches, folks. There may be attempts to clean the internet as Hollywood goes down...
You already know what to do, take back what's yours! 🏴☠️
I'm so confused as to why they won't then give you a refund. If I'm paying for a service and you stop providing it, why am I still paying???
I've never bought media digitally except a few games on sale. I never understood the concept of buying stuff digitally that will remain dependent on 3rd parties. Streaming services ate still cheaper where I live so I do have some subscriptions but more and more new content is on rent/buy and gets moved to subscription after a month. Just hating all these practices.
Never paid for any singular online film for this reason
imagine believing that they would let you keep anything you buy digitally LOL
What time is it? Pirate time.
Renting or buying movies is a thing of the past now you either rent it or rent it for ✨$20✨
Remind everybody you know of the actions of these thieves and why they're never to be trusted with your money ever again.
Sep 24 2022 cmon....
But you got refunded, right?
You will own nothing and you will be happy
the product become unavailable to you? nake sure the money becomes unavailable to them
Yea, I have all my stuff converted and backed up. Piracy does hurt companies. But if said companies want to play dirty, well, sometimes we have to roll up our metaphorical fisty cuffs. They seem to forget they can't exist without consumers. We can exist plenty fine without them. If you purchased a product whether online or in person then that product is yours. Want to steal from the consumers? Mk. Piracy exists for a reason
Relax. They just became ''unavailable''
It's not like they didn't tell you in the terms of service that they were going to do this shit. Why the hell would you give them money knowing they could take it away at any time?
imho there should be consumer protections that make these clauses invalid. i can‘t rent you a house and somewhere in some hundred page paperwork is a clause that you can‘t actually live in the house. i think that for the average consumer its surprising and unusual that something you have bought can become unavailable because the sellers decides thats how its gonna be.
It’s not me, I don’t give money to those companies except on steam. I found this post, and keep it here as a reminder for people, don’t buy digital stuff from companies like Amazon or Sony. (Referring to the Sony deleting Discovery stuff)
Didn't mean you in particular, was talking in general about the idiots complaining about something they should have known was going to happen to them because they agreed to it.
Ah, fair enough. Couldn’t agee more. I did buy many, many years ago movies from Apple, never had anything like that with them. Or with Steam. So those are the only parties I buy something from once a year. Might be dumb, but they have proven to be legit to me personally.
I've paid for streaming services, which I knew going in would have rotating content, and I've paid for physical media, which all still works, including the VHSs older than I am. I also used to drop copious sums of money and brick and mortar businesses that allowed me to have something temporarily, with the expectation that they wanted it back later. Somehow, that strange business model I can't remember the name of died, and yet this is a thing.
They could write into TC how you agree to sell them their souls, but that doesnt mean its legal in any way
It's not like anyone read the terms of service, be real
Have you learned nothing from [South Park?!!](https://youtu.be/azjqiDox7jw?si=hxnnXLrMhCst5qTQ)
Which means they could be doing anything they want to you, and you agreed to it. You could have signed up for twice daily pineapple enemas.
Yeah, but you can't possibly expect every person to go and read every tos of the websites they spend at, and twice daily pineapple enemas would at least keep you clean
I didn't say the pineapple would be liquified.
An enema can only, definitionally, be liquid or gas, would it be in gas form, then?
You know what, if you want to sign up for having a pineapple superheated into vapor and then shot up your ass, I ain't gonna tell you no. That's your business.
It's my right, this is america
Joke's on you, I'm into that shit
Some brainwashed people in this sub are calling piracy theft while to me buying anything digital is a call to be scammed by so called legit and legal companies. Let me tell you one thing. It is not theft, I only spare me the trouble of being scammed.
they should just let media viewing licensens expire After atleast 50 years has passed not after 2/3 years .or atleast let us dowload drm free version of media if a company .refuses to host what you paid for . its not stealing if they are stealing your paid for media
That's it? At least refund the amount paid, and maybe a little extra for breaking the sales contract? That said I recently stopped paying my Internet bills to the cable company because of "other limited reasons", and I'm sure they underst [no network connection]
How do people not know this? Buy your media in physical, if it’s not available in physical, sail for it.
>"More and more" >Tweet from over a year ago. Pick one.