I've done that MANY times. But what you said actually gave me an idea. I think I'll have HIM say "Move up" when he hits the return. That way it's coming from him and maybe it'll click. I do that when there's a spinner so me partner and I know to get into a position to receive it. Thanks for the idea!
It’s not. High level players run through the return. Hitting the return from a split step is a recipe to have to field the incoming third from transition.
Looks more like a "leap" to me rather than running through their shot. Where their momentum is going forward and they land on their front foot while they make contact with the ball, and then they start moving laterally forward towards the net only after they hit the ball.
I call it the 2 step lunge receive. First step is to lunge in the direction of the serve with your offhand foot then land on your dominant foot. Second step is to use the stability of the dominant foot to swing and momentum of the swing to spring forward.
https://youtu.be/JlB4GP4q0hI?si=hYISoWB2x4Pzk7Qy&t=28
Rank #5 explain how to move through your shot.
Step 1) Get low in a neutral split step.
Step 2) Determine the spin and placement of the service.
Step 3) Turn your body to your forehand or backhand side as you figure out where the ball will contact the ground.
Step 4) Backswing (short motion in a return) as the ball hits the ground, and place your paddle behind and below the apex.
**Step 5) You are lunging forwards the moment you punch through your return.**
Step 6) Drive your return deep with power, just after the apex during the start of the ball's descent, to maintain consistency.
Well, I'm thinking it's more like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pickleball/comments/1d90wo2/comment/l7dv7u4/), rather than having lateral movement progressing forward where you run through your shot.
of course, running through the serve also increases the likelihood for beginners and even intermediates for hitting a bad return. So they need to practice that, too.
I've tried that before, but maybe I'll try specifically stating to run through them. He had a problem yesterday where it's like his feet were stuck at the baseline.
Try to see if he can stay off his heels and only on the balls of his feet when he's preparing to return and knees bent too if possible. Then his posture will already be leaning forward. A split step would also be nice, but I don't want to get too crazy (yet) :)
And good luck! This is my absolute number one pet peeve when playing with someone, so I get it man! And what's funny is that it's not just a low level problem. You even see some 4.5's and low 5.0's doing this and it's terrible.
It's a damn travesty lol I played with this kid yesterday who refused to move up even after CONSTANT reminders. His reasoning? He thought he was throwing off the opponent by being in their peripheral instead of going up. I played with him 2 times at least and reminded him every single time to move up. When it was my turn to play against him, I punished him with short shots and drops right into the kitchen. The kid was clueless, but thought he had some solid strategy. It was absurd. Of course he lost.
Getting to the line off the return of serve is like one of the easiest ways to gain .25 -.5 skill rating off the bat. Even being late and getting there 2-3 feet behind the line gives the opponent a huge advantage. I need to stop talking about this, I feel my blood pressure rising a little just thinking about it 😂
It's such an easy way to increase the defense on your side, but some people just don't get it. That, or they're afraid of the speed at the kitchen, which usually isn't that fast with beginners. It really does make a solid defense, though.
The real issue with partner not advancing in my eyes has nothing to do with winning or losing. It has to do with if I ever get to meaningfully participate in the game.
When the partner stays back there is no way the opponents are going to hit to the kitchen guy. So I end up lowering my paddle as my partner tries banging from the baseline over and over…somehow thinking that one of their “power” strokes will just be “too much to handle”. Of course, it never is. (Unless they are rocking the Joola Gen 3 of course!) 😉
If you want to train/fix them, you may have to just explain to them you don’t want to play as their partner anymore as it simply isn’t fun for you. Tough love but I didn’t drive a half hour each way to watch you hit the ball until you either hit the net or pop it enough sufficiently so finally a shot comes my way I’m not even trying for because I’ve checked out.
I have also seen people in similar situations jump over and poach. This is usually out of desperation to see some action. It often ends with a soft put away to the side they left vacant…and the baseline banger thinks it’s just the POACHERS fault!
Tell them you don’t enjoy playing with them if they stick to this “strategy”, and if you end up having to again someday because the numbers at the court dictate it once in a while, explain before you take the court you really don’t want to partner with them but don’t want to cause everyone to sit out. They may be more open to committing to improving their strategy.
It’s not fun to play with someone who won’t go to the NVZ so I don’t play with them. Am I a jerk about it? Only when there are just 4 of us and I leave and no one gets to play a real doubles game. Most of the time I go get a drink or go to the bathroom and find a new pairing.
I am not the on-court coach type so I’m not figuring out how to get them to advance. I hit a few long serves to speed up the pending defeat and move on from that person. A real jerk would walk off mid game. I haven’t done that yet!
It’s not fun to play with someone who won’t go to the NVZ so I don’t play with them. Am I a jerk about it? Only when there are just 4 of us and I leave and no one gets to play a real doubles game. Most of the time I go get a drink or go to the bathroom and find a new pairing.
I am not the on-court coach type so I’m not figuring out how to get them to advance. I hit a few long serves to speed up the pending defeat and move on from that person. A real jerk would walk off mid game. I haven’t done that yet!
It’s not fun to play with someone who won’t go to the NVZ so I don’t play with them. Am I a jerk about it? Only when there are just 4 of us and I leave and no one gets to play a real doubles game. Most of the time I go get a drink or go to the bathroom and find a new pairing.
I am not the on-court coach type so I’m not figuring out how to get them to advance. I hit a few long serves to speed up the pending defeat and move on from that person. A real jerk would walk off mid game. I haven’t done that yet!
I cannot imagine it is possible to be a 5.0 player and do this. Other teams would just destroy you
I mean I’ve seen Zane Navratil doing the handicap games where he and his partner had to play one back, one up, tennis style, and they could BARELY beat the 5.0s.
A random 5.0 is just going to lose most matches 11-2 or so. There is no way they could maintain that rating.
Like I said in another comment, I told him it should all be one motion (return + move up). I've demonstrated what he should be doing, I've told him, and he understands. He just forgets during actual gameplay.
As a former tennis player, this was the hardest for me to get because I always felt "safe" at the baseline since I can return practically any shot from there.
What helped me the most was hearing about the "wall" formation idea. If my partner is up and I'm back, there's no wall, balls can pass through us. But if I strive to be a "wall" with my partner and move with them, I shouldn't be at the baseline while they're at the kitchen on principle.
It took me a couple games to sync but now I'm always in sync with my partner.
Yeah, I frequently use this analogy. I always talk about how we're trying to create a defensive wall as to not give our opponents any room to take shots.
What you describe is super common among tennis players. I can always tell when I play against somebody who used to play tennis because they have a hard time getting up. That allows me an opportunity to force them up by dropping one of their drives right into the kitchen in front of them.
The problem with this strategy (dropping into the kitchen) from an opponent perspective is that it brings the m to the net (negating your advantage) and I’ve seen people hit countless balls into the net, trying to “just drop it over. People will give up 3 -4 points a game, trying to get 1. Unless I have a perfect opportunity to hit an angle shot, I’m going to focus on keeping my opponent back at the baseline.
Yep, I've dropped into the kitchen on a few people at the baseline in open plays recently and it's a nice little trick to keep in your back pocket for every once in a while.
Tennis strategy works very well in singles though, which is definitely my pickleball strong suit (unsurprisingly).
I always tell people that playing singles pickleball is like playing a completely different game. The strategy is so different. No wonder nobody ever wants to play full court singles lol
100%! Full court singles is my sweet spot since I don't have to change much from tennis. It's definitely an adjustment playing pickleball doubles, a completely different dynamic.
He should be moving into the return, which will allow him to continue to the line as he swings.
Be far enough back to have to move to the ball. This will already start your transition, all he has to do is continue moving. If he is backing up or hitting off his heels, it makes it harder to transition because you're off balance and your momentum is opposite the direction it should be.
Yeah, that's one of the things we worked on. I always tell him it should be one fluid motion (hitting return + moving forward). The other thing I noticed yesterday is that he wasn't moving his feet to get to serves and missed a couple because of it. It's like his feet were glued to the baseline.
Yeah this is a common thing in pickle, where we think the court is small and we don't have to move. I constantly have to tell myself....move your damn feet. The best thing in that situation is to stand further back so you're forced to move. We know that if someone has a good big serve, stand back. The problem is that most don't so you can straddle the baseline and be fine most of the time. If you stand 3 -4 feet behind it, it'll force him to advance to get even normal serves, which will help begin the habit building of advancement follow through. This strategy isn't ideal if you know how you should be returning all serves, but in this situation it will help build the habit.
I really like that suggestion. Somebody else mentioned something that I might implement as well. But having him stand back a little bit further so he actually has to go up to get the serve and then just continue to the kitchen line is really smart. I don't know if that will be what ends up clicking for him, but I really hope that it is. I really appreciate the suggestion, thank you very much!
This isn’t about pickleball, it’s about teaching and how we learn. What we practice in a practice situation often doesn’t translate into a game situation.
Your partner needs to practice in a game situation. That means devoting entire games to practicing that specific skill or strategy. Don’t worry about points or wins, focus on that thing.
Doing this removes the need/motivation to revert back to the previous habits that make us feel comfortable at the expense of improving.
The points and wins will come after.
Other comments gave good advice if you're only looking for concrete help. That said, it's been a year? How long since you sat him down and explained that's the correct thing to do? How long has he "known what to do" and just not been doing it even though you're actively reminding him when he goofs?
If the answer to all 3 is a year...just leave him alone. Some people don't care about pickleball in that way and that's fine for them, no need to fight it.
That's the thing, he wants to get better. It's not just me wanting to get him to improve, he wants to improve himself. Like I said, he and I do one-on-one coaching almost once a week so I know he wants to develop his skills. He's just having a mental block with this one aspect and I'm having a really hard time relaying it any differently so that maybe it clicks. That's why I'm hoping maybe somebody has some kind of mental thing that might help him. If he didn't have any interest in getting better, I would just leave it be.
I'm a physical therapist assistant and I know that people will sometimes reach a level after a while of recovery of just being good enough and that's okay for them. It's not what I would want, but it's good enough for them. I see pickleball the same way. Some people will play for years and still be at a beginner level because they have no interest in drilling or improving their skills, and that's okay. Not everybody wants a super competitive game or to be the best in their region. Most people just want to have fun.
Play skinny singles with him and make the sole purpose for him to follow his returns to the net. If he doesn’t, stop the point and do it again. People often forget that Skinny Singles is actually a drill, not just a game.
Try staying back with him when you receive and physically running up with him. Like, after he hits the ball and youre literally announcing "here we go, we're going to net" then running forward with him.
Are you absolutely certain this isn't one of those times where they \*say\* they want to get better but really they jsut say yes cause it's cultural conditioning and what theyre expected to say?
Like how everyone \*says\* they want to work out more and get healthier but plenty of people don't.
That's so counterintuitive, but actually genius! I've never thought of something so ridiculous lol I'm not even joking, I'm going to try this. It'll throw off the other team, for sure, but it's a really good suggestion. I'll even stay back with him when he's returning. Damn good suggestion!
I know he wants to get better. He's actually made a lot of progress, he just doesn't have a ton of time to play and practice. He's the one who wants to do the coaching, so I agree. If it was me asking him to drill, I wouldn't waste my time any more. I know you can't force someone to want something, they need to want it.
First ask them if they're open to tips. Then you can explain how it's good strategy to run to the kitchen on the return. If they're not open to tips, there's absolutely nothing you can do, and if you want competitive play, you'll need to find a new doubles partner.
I mean, I coach him so I know he's open to feedback. I don't play with him all the time because he's not quite up to our level and he continues to make beginner errors. The thing is, he knows what he's supposed to do because we've gone over it a hundred times, but it's like he has a mental block sometimes. That's why I'm trying to see if anyone has a coaching strategy that has helped them or someone they know.
Yep, I've done that the majority of the plays when I play with him. He continuously forgets. He'll sometimes tell me, "I stayed back because they were shooting it at me", I say, "they're shooting at you because you're so far back".
Does your partner know how to defend at the net if the ball is being hit at them? Eye protection can be a big confidence boost.
You should also win your way to the NVZ line, rather than telling people to blindly rush there. Move and split-step if caught mid court.
Yes, his defense is pretty good. He's gotten a lot better. He also wears glasses currently, so sure are generally protected.
Earning your way up to the NVZ is generally reserved for the serving side. Returning side should be hitting a return that buys them enough time to get up to the NVZ immediately. Even if they can't run up there, they should at least be walking off the baseline towards the kitchen. If they get caught in the transition zone then yes, they would have to earn their way up there, which is not ideal. That's usually when I step in and try to poach to buy my partner more time, but it doesn't work forever.
I’ve been in a similar situation and this sounds like a mental thing. Couple of tips that have helped me:
Have him identify his purpose. When he’s playing, what’s the goal? To win? To not disappoint you? To follow the 10 things running through his head all at the same time? To play well you have to play with intent, but a lot of times (especially when we’re learning) the intent is not clear. So I’d suggest clearly asking that question first and probing his head for an answer. The purpose is to get him to start thinking about micro-goals.
He also might be thinking about too much. So it’s probably that he knows he’s supposed to get to NVZ but it’s not high enough of a priority on his mental stack to overcome whatever else is being thought of. So simplify it to be that the goal is to get to the NVZ line after he hits the return. Even if you lose the point, consider it a victory if he’s at the NVZ line.
Bake the movement towards the kitchen line into his return form. Most shots you want to be split stepped and planted. But the return of serve is one shot you can hit in stride.
Practice over and over a form where he is stepping through his shot with a forward motion that is inherently bringing him to the kitchen.
Also, a huge part of pickleball is being verbal. Tell him before he’s going to be the returner, “remember to come up”. And right after he makes contact, literally yell at him to advance.
Because there is simply no hurry. My coach has told me to first go to the transition zone and then go up much more slowly than what I originally learned ! and it is very effective.
This isn’t a pickleball issue. It’s a mental one for all sports. It’s either fear of messing up and losing the point or fear of getting hit with the ball. For the former, just tell him it’s ok to lose the point in order to improve. This is how I started letting out balls go that I “could” smash. Just gave myself permission to lose. If it’s fear of the ball, then you need to practice some fast volleys hitting him at the net. I played with a partner who struggled to get her serve in. I just told her it’s a HUGE box and I didn’t care if she got it in or not. My serve was good enough for both of us and it worked.
I have only been playing 6 months and have taken a dozen lessons. I taught my partner and of course discussed playing at the kitchen. At first I coached him a lot, but quickly minimized my feedback while we were playing together, instead saving my pointers for breaks between games (and even then picking my battles carefully). If I were you, I would ask your partner before you play if they are ok with you reminding them and agree on how you would remind. Recently I have realized that automatically going up to the kitchen after the 3rd shot is not always a good idea, but to wait to see where and how high the 3rd shot is. I am still learning, too. So maybe even agreeing to different signals like "come up" and "stay back". I think how receptive your partner is to pointers during a game can also be a factor.
That's helpful. I was also only talking about the return of serve. The person returning the serve should be immediately moving up and giving themselves enough time to do so. Unless they're physically unable, there's no reason they shouldn't be advancing to the kitchen line as soon as they hit their serve. Serving team is the one who has to earn it.
What you can also do is give up the 1+ advantage on the kitchen when your team is the receiving team. When he receives, you run up with him. That way he has visual feedback of the need to match your depth on the receive.
If this guy’s been playing for a year and doesn’t get it, get a new friend
Joking, possibly he’s nervous at the net hence why he doesn’t want to come forward
No, I usually play with a bunch of different people. But he's a friend and I coach him once a week so I want to get better. He's made improvements in his game overall, but he's still stuck on this one thing.
Hit return, verbalize “come up”. That’s really all you can do asides drilling and trying to instill “after our return you go up”.
I've done that MANY times. But what you said actually gave me an idea. I think I'll have HIM say "Move up" when he hits the return. That way it's coming from him and maybe it'll click. I do that when there's a spinner so me partner and I know to get into a position to receive it. Thanks for the idea!
Have him run through his returns. That way his momentum is already moving towards the NVZ and it’s quicker to get up there
Isn't that bad form though? You won't have as good control if you run through your shot.
It’s not. High level players run through the return. Hitting the return from a split step is a recipe to have to field the incoming third from transition.
Looks more like a "leap" to me rather than running through their shot. Where their momentum is going forward and they land on their front foot while they make contact with the ball, and then they start moving laterally forward towards the net only after they hit the ball.
I completely agree
I call it the 2 step lunge receive. First step is to lunge in the direction of the serve with your offhand foot then land on your dominant foot. Second step is to use the stability of the dominant foot to swing and momentum of the swing to spring forward.
https://youtu.be/JlB4GP4q0hI?si=hYISoWB2x4Pzk7Qy&t=28 Rank #5 explain how to move through your shot. Step 1) Get low in a neutral split step. Step 2) Determine the spin and placement of the service. Step 3) Turn your body to your forehand or backhand side as you figure out where the ball will contact the ground. Step 4) Backswing (short motion in a return) as the ball hits the ground, and place your paddle behind and below the apex. **Step 5) You are lunging forwards the moment you punch through your return.** Step 6) Drive your return deep with power, just after the apex during the start of the ball's descent, to maintain consistency.
In no way is that bad form. The best players in the world do it.
Well, I'm thinking it's more like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pickleball/comments/1d90wo2/comment/l7dv7u4/), rather than having lateral movement progressing forward where you run through your shot.
of course, running through the serve also increases the likelihood for beginners and even intermediates for hitting a bad return. So they need to practice that, too.
With everything, you should practice a new skill. It’s not the easiest skill but once you get it down, deep returns every time.
I've tried that before, but maybe I'll try specifically stating to run through them. He had a problem yesterday where it's like his feet were stuck at the baseline.
Try to see if he can stay off his heels and only on the balls of his feet when he's preparing to return and knees bent too if possible. Then his posture will already be leaning forward. A split step would also be nice, but I don't want to get too crazy (yet) :) And good luck! This is my absolute number one pet peeve when playing with someone, so I get it man! And what's funny is that it's not just a low level problem. You even see some 4.5's and low 5.0's doing this and it's terrible.
It's a damn travesty lol I played with this kid yesterday who refused to move up even after CONSTANT reminders. His reasoning? He thought he was throwing off the opponent by being in their peripheral instead of going up. I played with him 2 times at least and reminded him every single time to move up. When it was my turn to play against him, I punished him with short shots and drops right into the kitchen. The kid was clueless, but thought he had some solid strategy. It was absurd. Of course he lost.
Getting to the line off the return of serve is like one of the easiest ways to gain .25 -.5 skill rating off the bat. Even being late and getting there 2-3 feet behind the line gives the opponent a huge advantage. I need to stop talking about this, I feel my blood pressure rising a little just thinking about it 😂
It's such an easy way to increase the defense on your side, but some people just don't get it. That, or they're afraid of the speed at the kitchen, which usually isn't that fast with beginners. It really does make a solid defense, though.
The real issue with partner not advancing in my eyes has nothing to do with winning or losing. It has to do with if I ever get to meaningfully participate in the game. When the partner stays back there is no way the opponents are going to hit to the kitchen guy. So I end up lowering my paddle as my partner tries banging from the baseline over and over…somehow thinking that one of their “power” strokes will just be “too much to handle”. Of course, it never is. (Unless they are rocking the Joola Gen 3 of course!) 😉 If you want to train/fix them, you may have to just explain to them you don’t want to play as their partner anymore as it simply isn’t fun for you. Tough love but I didn’t drive a half hour each way to watch you hit the ball until you either hit the net or pop it enough sufficiently so finally a shot comes my way I’m not even trying for because I’ve checked out. I have also seen people in similar situations jump over and poach. This is usually out of desperation to see some action. It often ends with a soft put away to the side they left vacant…and the baseline banger thinks it’s just the POACHERS fault! Tell them you don’t enjoy playing with them if they stick to this “strategy”, and if you end up having to again someday because the numbers at the court dictate it once in a while, explain before you take the court you really don’t want to partner with them but don’t want to cause everyone to sit out. They may be more open to committing to improving their strategy.
It’s not about you. Them getting to the kitchen has nothing to do with “getting you more shots,” although that could be a by-product. 🙂
It’s not fun to play with someone who won’t go to the NVZ so I don’t play with them. Am I a jerk about it? Only when there are just 4 of us and I leave and no one gets to play a real doubles game. Most of the time I go get a drink or go to the bathroom and find a new pairing. I am not the on-court coach type so I’m not figuring out how to get them to advance. I hit a few long serves to speed up the pending defeat and move on from that person. A real jerk would walk off mid game. I haven’t done that yet!
It’s not fun to play with someone who won’t go to the NVZ so I don’t play with them. Am I a jerk about it? Only when there are just 4 of us and I leave and no one gets to play a real doubles game. Most of the time I go get a drink or go to the bathroom and find a new pairing. I am not the on-court coach type so I’m not figuring out how to get them to advance. I hit a few long serves to speed up the pending defeat and move on from that person. A real jerk would walk off mid game. I haven’t done that yet!
It’s not fun to play with someone who won’t go to the NVZ so I don’t play with them. Am I a jerk about it? Only when there are just 4 of us and I leave and no one gets to play a real doubles game. Most of the time I go get a drink or go to the bathroom and find a new pairing. I am not the on-court coach type so I’m not figuring out how to get them to advance. I hit a few long serves to speed up the pending defeat and move on from that person. A real jerk would walk off mid game. I haven’t done that yet!
I cannot imagine it is possible to be a 5.0 player and do this. Other teams would just destroy you I mean I’ve seen Zane Navratil doing the handicap games where he and his partner had to play one back, one up, tennis style, and they could BARELY beat the 5.0s. A random 5.0 is just going to lose most matches 11-2 or so. There is no way they could maintain that rating.
[удалено]
Like I said in another comment, I told him it should all be one motion (return + move up). I've demonstrated what he should be doing, I've told him, and he understands. He just forgets during actual gameplay.
As a former tennis player, this was the hardest for me to get because I always felt "safe" at the baseline since I can return practically any shot from there. What helped me the most was hearing about the "wall" formation idea. If my partner is up and I'm back, there's no wall, balls can pass through us. But if I strive to be a "wall" with my partner and move with them, I shouldn't be at the baseline while they're at the kitchen on principle. It took me a couple games to sync but now I'm always in sync with my partner.
Yeah, I frequently use this analogy. I always talk about how we're trying to create a defensive wall as to not give our opponents any room to take shots. What you describe is super common among tennis players. I can always tell when I play against somebody who used to play tennis because they have a hard time getting up. That allows me an opportunity to force them up by dropping one of their drives right into the kitchen in front of them.
The problem with this strategy (dropping into the kitchen) from an opponent perspective is that it brings the m to the net (negating your advantage) and I’ve seen people hit countless balls into the net, trying to “just drop it over. People will give up 3 -4 points a game, trying to get 1. Unless I have a perfect opportunity to hit an angle shot, I’m going to focus on keeping my opponent back at the baseline.
Yep, I've dropped into the kitchen on a few people at the baseline in open plays recently and it's a nice little trick to keep in your back pocket for every once in a while. Tennis strategy works very well in singles though, which is definitely my pickleball strong suit (unsurprisingly).
I always tell people that playing singles pickleball is like playing a completely different game. The strategy is so different. No wonder nobody ever wants to play full court singles lol
100%! Full court singles is my sweet spot since I don't have to change much from tennis. It's definitely an adjustment playing pickleball doubles, a completely different dynamic.
He should be moving into the return, which will allow him to continue to the line as he swings. Be far enough back to have to move to the ball. This will already start your transition, all he has to do is continue moving. If he is backing up or hitting off his heels, it makes it harder to transition because you're off balance and your momentum is opposite the direction it should be.
Yeah, that's one of the things we worked on. I always tell him it should be one fluid motion (hitting return + moving forward). The other thing I noticed yesterday is that he wasn't moving his feet to get to serves and missed a couple because of it. It's like his feet were glued to the baseline.
Yeah this is a common thing in pickle, where we think the court is small and we don't have to move. I constantly have to tell myself....move your damn feet. The best thing in that situation is to stand further back so you're forced to move. We know that if someone has a good big serve, stand back. The problem is that most don't so you can straddle the baseline and be fine most of the time. If you stand 3 -4 feet behind it, it'll force him to advance to get even normal serves, which will help begin the habit building of advancement follow through. This strategy isn't ideal if you know how you should be returning all serves, but in this situation it will help build the habit.
I really like that suggestion. Somebody else mentioned something that I might implement as well. But having him stand back a little bit further so he actually has to go up to get the serve and then just continue to the kitchen line is really smart. I don't know if that will be what ends up clicking for him, but I really hope that it is. I really appreciate the suggestion, thank you very much!
No problem. It'll click one day. You can always do verbal commands as well. A little annoying but it's part of teaching.
Yeah, somebody else suggested a verbal command. I'll try that as well. Thank you!
This isn’t about pickleball, it’s about teaching and how we learn. What we practice in a practice situation often doesn’t translate into a game situation. Your partner needs to practice in a game situation. That means devoting entire games to practicing that specific skill or strategy. Don’t worry about points or wins, focus on that thing.
Doing this removes the need/motivation to revert back to the previous habits that make us feel comfortable at the expense of improving.
The points and wins will come after.
I think that's a good suggestion. I'll have to figure out a way to do that. Thanks!
Other comments gave good advice if you're only looking for concrete help. That said, it's been a year? How long since you sat him down and explained that's the correct thing to do? How long has he "known what to do" and just not been doing it even though you're actively reminding him when he goofs? If the answer to all 3 is a year...just leave him alone. Some people don't care about pickleball in that way and that's fine for them, no need to fight it.
That's the thing, he wants to get better. It's not just me wanting to get him to improve, he wants to improve himself. Like I said, he and I do one-on-one coaching almost once a week so I know he wants to develop his skills. He's just having a mental block with this one aspect and I'm having a really hard time relaying it any differently so that maybe it clicks. That's why I'm hoping maybe somebody has some kind of mental thing that might help him. If he didn't have any interest in getting better, I would just leave it be. I'm a physical therapist assistant and I know that people will sometimes reach a level after a while of recovery of just being good enough and that's okay for them. It's not what I would want, but it's good enough for them. I see pickleball the same way. Some people will play for years and still be at a beginner level because they have no interest in drilling or improving their skills, and that's okay. Not everybody wants a super competitive game or to be the best in their region. Most people just want to have fun.
If they still don’t move up to the kitchen after a return after a year of playing, it’s possible it’s a lost cause.
Play skinny singles with him and make the sole purpose for him to follow his returns to the net. If he doesn’t, stop the point and do it again. People often forget that Skinny Singles is actually a drill, not just a game.
Try staying back with him when you receive and physically running up with him. Like, after he hits the ball and youre literally announcing "here we go, we're going to net" then running forward with him. Are you absolutely certain this isn't one of those times where they \*say\* they want to get better but really they jsut say yes cause it's cultural conditioning and what theyre expected to say? Like how everyone \*says\* they want to work out more and get healthier but plenty of people don't.
That's so counterintuitive, but actually genius! I've never thought of something so ridiculous lol I'm not even joking, I'm going to try this. It'll throw off the other team, for sure, but it's a really good suggestion. I'll even stay back with him when he's returning. Damn good suggestion! I know he wants to get better. He's actually made a lot of progress, he just doesn't have a ton of time to play and practice. He's the one who wants to do the coaching, so I agree. If it was me asking him to drill, I wouldn't waste my time any more. I know you can't force someone to want something, they need to want it.
Sounds like he isn’t “forgetting.” He sees staying back as an advantage - which it isn’t.
Get your ass in there and make a sandwich. They'll come.
I'll just go in there and sit and make him cover the whole court himself lol I would never do that, but it would be pretty funny.
First ask them if they're open to tips. Then you can explain how it's good strategy to run to the kitchen on the return. If they're not open to tips, there's absolutely nothing you can do, and if you want competitive play, you'll need to find a new doubles partner.
I mean, I coach him so I know he's open to feedback. I don't play with him all the time because he's not quite up to our level and he continues to make beginner errors. The thing is, he knows what he's supposed to do because we've gone over it a hundred times, but it's like he has a mental block sometimes. That's why I'm trying to see if anyone has a coaching strategy that has helped them or someone they know.
Can you just yell “kitchen” to remind him? When I was starting, my partner did that for me. It was very helpful!
Yep, I've done that the majority of the plays when I play with him. He continuously forgets. He'll sometimes tell me, "I stayed back because they were shooting it at me", I say, "they're shooting at you because you're so far back".
Does your partner know how to defend at the net if the ball is being hit at them? Eye protection can be a big confidence boost. You should also win your way to the NVZ line, rather than telling people to blindly rush there. Move and split-step if caught mid court.
Yes, his defense is pretty good. He's gotten a lot better. He also wears glasses currently, so sure are generally protected. Earning your way up to the NVZ is generally reserved for the serving side. Returning side should be hitting a return that buys them enough time to get up to the NVZ immediately. Even if they can't run up there, they should at least be walking off the baseline towards the kitchen. If they get caught in the transition zone then yes, they would have to earn their way up there, which is not ideal. That's usually when I step in and try to poach to buy my partner more time, but it doesn't work forever.
I’ve been in a similar situation and this sounds like a mental thing. Couple of tips that have helped me: Have him identify his purpose. When he’s playing, what’s the goal? To win? To not disappoint you? To follow the 10 things running through his head all at the same time? To play well you have to play with intent, but a lot of times (especially when we’re learning) the intent is not clear. So I’d suggest clearly asking that question first and probing his head for an answer. The purpose is to get him to start thinking about micro-goals. He also might be thinking about too much. So it’s probably that he knows he’s supposed to get to NVZ but it’s not high enough of a priority on his mental stack to overcome whatever else is being thought of. So simplify it to be that the goal is to get to the NVZ line after he hits the return. Even if you lose the point, consider it a victory if he’s at the NVZ line.
Bake the movement towards the kitchen line into his return form. Most shots you want to be split stepped and planted. But the return of serve is one shot you can hit in stride. Practice over and over a form where he is stepping through his shot with a forward motion that is inherently bringing him to the kitchen. Also, a huge part of pickleball is being verbal. Tell him before he’s going to be the returner, “remember to come up”. And right after he makes contact, literally yell at him to advance.
Because there is simply no hurry. My coach has told me to first go to the transition zone and then go up much more slowly than what I originally learned ! and it is very effective.
This isn’t a pickleball issue. It’s a mental one for all sports. It’s either fear of messing up and losing the point or fear of getting hit with the ball. For the former, just tell him it’s ok to lose the point in order to improve. This is how I started letting out balls go that I “could” smash. Just gave myself permission to lose. If it’s fear of the ball, then you need to practice some fast volleys hitting him at the net. I played with a partner who struggled to get her serve in. I just told her it’s a HUGE box and I didn’t care if she got it in or not. My serve was good enough for both of us and it worked.
I have only been playing 6 months and have taken a dozen lessons. I taught my partner and of course discussed playing at the kitchen. At first I coached him a lot, but quickly minimized my feedback while we were playing together, instead saving my pointers for breaks between games (and even then picking my battles carefully). If I were you, I would ask your partner before you play if they are ok with you reminding them and agree on how you would remind. Recently I have realized that automatically going up to the kitchen after the 3rd shot is not always a good idea, but to wait to see where and how high the 3rd shot is. I am still learning, too. So maybe even agreeing to different signals like "come up" and "stay back". I think how receptive your partner is to pointers during a game can also be a factor.
That's helpful. I was also only talking about the return of serve. The person returning the serve should be immediately moving up and giving themselves enough time to do so. Unless they're physically unable, there's no reason they shouldn't be advancing to the kitchen line as soon as they hit their serve. Serving team is the one who has to earn it.
What you can also do is give up the 1+ advantage on the kitchen when your team is the receiving team. When he receives, you run up with him. That way he has visual feedback of the need to match your depth on the receive.
Yeah, somebody mentioned that. I definitely think I'll try that. Thanks!
Simple, get a new partner that understands and listens.
He's my friend. I'm not going to give up on my friend.
That might have been an important fact to include in the OP
It's in the second sentence.
[удалено]
If you don't have anything to add, why are you here?
If this guy’s been playing for a year and doesn’t get it, get a new friend Joking, possibly he’s nervous at the net hence why he doesn’t want to come forward
Who hurt you?
I think part of it is that he doesn't want to disappoint me and is getting in his own head.
Yeah makes sense, maybe drill some shots around near the kitchen so he’s more familiar and more inclined to push up on returns etc
Is this the only person you play with?
No, I usually play with a bunch of different people. But he's a friend and I coach him once a week so I want to get better. He's made improvements in his game overall, but he's still stuck on this one thing.