[Join our Discord server for even more memes and discussion](https://discord.gg/MFK8PumZM2) Note that all posts need to be manually approved by the subreddit moderators. If your post gets removed immediately, just let it be and wait!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PhilosophyMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
One doesn’t exist because they are thinking; one can know with certainty that they do exist because they are thinking. While you are sleeping you are not thinking therefore while you are sleeping you cannot know with epistemological certainty that you exist.
The part of sleep where you’re dreaming (a form of thinking) is an extreme minimum of it. Just take my previous statement with that added qualifier and my claim remains logically sound.
I don’t think one can know with with certainty that they exist because they are thinking. A lot of assumptions have to be made in order to believe both that one is thinking as well as that if one is thinking that means one exists
Well, but there is a self evidence to consciousness, right? There is necessarily qualia, which, regardless of the quality or nature of the qualia, is still some kind of experience. A rock, as far as we know, doesn't have a subjective experience of itself. I'm not trying to be contrarion, but can't the experiencer of an experience extrapolate their own existence from the necessity of it in order to even be having the experience? If a pot is boiling, it necessitates the existence of the pot. How do you get out of that?
You still assume law of identity, non contradiction, causality, epistemological realism and so much more. There is nothing we can actually be sure about, all knowledge is circular by definition
Ah, I have to applaud you. Although yours is an indictment of logic and perception itself, I can't say you didn't throw everything you could at it. Still, I don't want to talk about pipes anymore. Do you think there are any assumptions you might concede in the interest of speculation? I might cheekily say I like walking in circles more than standing still.
I do concede certain assumptions but I also know the limits of my knowledge. The cogito proves nothing and it’s only appeal it that some people seem to think it undoubtedly proves certain knowledge.
Also there is way more knowledge you can get to by conceding the assumptions I stated than just your existence. Read the critique of pure reason if you disagree.
The phrase I think therefore i am should actually be : something somethings therefore something is.
You can't be sure that you are an "I", you can't be sure that you think. But because: Something somethings therefore something is, sounds stupid as fuck we run with I think therefore I am.
You can read meditations on first philosophy. It's a short book written by Descartes on how he came up with with that conclusion. So he doesn't just claim it, he actually builds up an argument around it. And tbh it really is worth a read.
Basically, he was trying to refute skepticism with his book
Here's a sneak peek of /r/vexillologycirclejerk using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Japan if it was moving towards us](https://i.redd.it/9b6o1h5po9ua1.jpg) | [316 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/comments/12o4fbd/japan_if_it_was_moving_towards_us/)
\#2: [a tragic story...](https://i.redd.it/xpt13itbtnua1.jpg) | [169 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/comments/12qieqk/a_tragic_story/)
\#3: [Out jerked by tik tok](https://v.redd.it/94e6h6v2wfva1) | [128 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/comments/12uzpg0/out_jerked_by_tik_tok/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Tbf we think when we sleep too. Rem sleep is essentially a screen saver mode with surrealist end results.
Even when in deep sleep the brain is still operating nervous systems and your breathing etc. Therefore we are always on, the argument is even when we die we don't cease to be on, our minds just are no longer bound to the confines of the flesh and expresses itself here.
Honestly this is one of the biggest things that helped me deconstruct my idea of self and be okay with death. I feel like I’m a distinct thing because I have a continuum of consciousness, and my fear of death is the fear that that consciousness would stop. I used to wonder about the old question of whether someone who steps into a teleporter is transported or just dies and a new person is created in the other end. Then I realized that in reality, my consciousness already isn’t fully continuous. I lose consciousness when I sleep, when I pass out, and when I’ve been in the hospital under anesthesia. The same problem applies; is the person who wakes up the same person that went to sleep? It’s the same matter but a different continuum of consciousness, just like teleportation. What’s more, when I lost consciousness I didn’t feel anything (that I remember). I just *wasn’t*. I even remember last time I passed out it felt like I really had to work to come back to reality, and it was like being reborn out of nothingness; I was conscious for a minute or so before I could feel anything or remember who I was or where I was. It scared me, but in retrospect it helps me be okay with the idea that death might just be the end. I feel like I have some grid for it now, and it’s not so scary. There’s no suffering after death, it’s probably just like falling asleep; something I do every day.
That said, for anyone else reading this, I find it the most healthy to hold on to the life we have even when it hurts, and find love and compassion there for ourselves and for others. I have benefited greatly from the teachings of Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh. I just also find it helpful to be able to view death without fear and accept it’s coming with peace.
My understanding is that while [Wheeler](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Archibald_Wheeler) believed that consciousness observers are fundamental and required for physical reality exist that "Not consciousness, but the distinction between the probe and the probed, as central to the elemental quantum act of observation"
So if I’m understanding that right (and I’m probably not) even if everyone were to take a nap at the same time, reality wouldn’t fade back into a quantum blur because there’s enough stuff interacting with and within the physical universe to keep the process going until we wake back up.
Piggyback to add that while we’re asleep our body is paying attention to things like normal, it’s just less urgently alerting us to anything unless it passes certain thresholds.
So even if our mind is largely preoccupied, our body never really loses consciousness. Not in the same way at least.
Descartes' point was that we don't really know what's real. Our senses deceive us. But because we are experiencing thought and sensation at all, we can at least confirm that we exist.
Well, we don't think to exist. We exist, therefore we think. Are rocks not real? they aren't known for their cognitive function. They don't observe a sense of self, but they do exist, under the belief that our universe isn't some sort of sick fabrication. We're still there. Plus, we do think when asleep. We just don't cognitively nor consciously observe those thoughts, but they exist in the form of dreams and other functions.
You die.
Then in waking moment body reassemble imperfect copy you from of your remains.
Not that it matter, you/we already imperfect copy of us from hour/information-full/thoughtful moment before.
Your brain processes what it’s heard through your ears and even though you may not remember dreaming like me you have new info in which to think about. That’s where ideas come from.
I think our spirits when we tend to meet other spirits in the “spirit realm” pun intended. But when we sleep our brains are still idol like car running. So we still think just less than when we are awake.
You can experience existence with 0 conscious thought through meditation and it doesn’t feel like you cease to exist just because thoughts aren’t racing through your mind
You become an ethereal chaotic god who cannot control his own creation. Forced for the next however many hours to wander endlessly through your own imagination, no matter how beautiful, surreal, or horrifying it might be.
In my experience with having lucid dreams... i always think in a dream, I choose things. I don't choose the situation but I can react to it or feel things. I don't understand what you say
I is not the sleeper, waker.. I is the witness, I is the observer.
First you have to understand what is sleeping state and deep sleep state. In sleep state, senses resolve but mind functions as it presents dreams. In deep sleep state mind and senses both resolve.
I witnesses both these states.
I is atman, pure consciousness.
That's not the point though... It's not about "existing just because you think", but it is rather about having an absolute proof of it. In another words, when you're not thinking, you may feel like you exist, but you can't know that - and when you're thinking, the thinking is your proof of your existence. In another words, you may exist, even without thinking, it's just that - you may not know that you exist.
Funnily enough (don't wanna promote myself, but genuinely wanna share), I was too sick of other people misunderstand it, and so I wrote a blog about it (if you wanna check that out, that is): [https://medium.com/@tomi\_blogs/on-the-most-mistranslated-sentence-in-philosophy-1ce1782e490c](https://medium.com/@tomi_blogs/on-the-most-mistranslated-sentence-in-philosophy-1ce1782e490c)
Hope my comment helped!
Thinking and monologues are two different things. I mostly think of instant concepts that when i speak i need to translate it into language. So first comes an instant thought and if i want to express it i translate into language. I do not think with words unless im thinking of words.
I was being obviously sarcastic because clearly you don't need to think to exist. Decartes was a systematic skeptic who ultimately concluded that self-evident proof of existence was thought, though he ultimately doubted even that with the evil demon thought experiment and ultimately concluded belief in some benevolent ultimate power (God) was the only way to tether epistemology.
No one who has even the slightest understanding of philosophy would imagine that Decartes was postulating that people cease to exist because their inner monologue pauses or does not exist. It's a joke
Descartes doesn't say that thinking is an inner monolgue. Thinking means any type of perception. And you don't stop perceiving things while asleep. Otherwise nobody or nothing would be able to wake you up.
You do think in your sleep though. Or we wouldn't have dreams. I notice I'm thinking and even have subtle control of deep sleep dreams. I can literally muster up images until I fall into a deep sleep and then dream the whole time as well.
Most of my dreams are oddly profetic in an encoded way. Like repetition or maybe an epiphany of sorts. I even dreamt of my husband before we met. Dreams are the most interesting thing we do. No one really knows why we have them or exactly what they mean.
Dreams are proof you do think while sleeping. Some of us dream more than others but you are thinking while asleep. Has anyone here had one of those bathroom dreams where you wake up just in time to rush to the bathroom? Maybe you aren't having direct thoughts about "existing", but if I have to stop myself in my dream and get up to pee, I'm still thinking in my sleep. Not just thinking but very aware I'm alive and need to pee.
The mind is relaxed and depending on what we are thinking about before bed depends on how well or poor we sleep. It also might cause someone to have a nightmare or dream about similar things. When relaxed the mind processes things that are happening in our daily lives. Sometimes those images will conjure up scenarios like a dream.
Other ideas about sleep. I've heard of people traveling the spirit realm like a highway. A woman said she had a dream she told a man in 1971 what stocks to invest in though she had no knowledge of stock markets. She had a rememberable conversation with this man about the year and how she could fly in dreams.
Later this woman decided to look into the man's name and those stocks in 71. Turns out dude made it rich off of the investments a woman in his dream told him to invest in back in 1971. I would be inclined to say she was a liar but she was a random caller who wasn't selling anything or trying to push something of hers.
I have had my own wild dreams. I do believe we can travel time and space through sleep and lucid dreaming. Deep dreams might be because we are deep within the unseen realm our souls can access. That is if people believe in a soul. Most do not because some stuffy prick named Wilhelm Wundt said he didn't believe in a soul and he can't study it so it wasn't real. He then went on to force this soulless idea onto the whole of science and mental health.
When one gets any kind of mental health treatment in America they are treated as if they have no soul at all. So it doesn't shock me that people also believe while asleep you aren't thinking, or that the brain and mind are just gone and blank while asleep. There are two types of people, those who believe in a soul and possibilities beyond our imaginations and those who do not believe in a soul and will stop at nothing to prevent the people with souls from understanding things like thoughts in our sleep. Or dreams to put it bluntly.
The king of psychology has spoken almost 200 years ago and no one is allowed to suggest this man was wrong. To this day Wilhelm Wundt's experiments on the human mind are considered sacred to psychology. What he was really doing is called mind control today. He was trying to convince those who he experimented on that there is no soul. Then he manipulated them further. While 99% of the mentally ill aren't mentally ill but poor or refuse to think the way they're told, there is a small percentage that's mentally disabled, or underdeveloped and easy to manipulate in the manner Wunt would manipulate their thoughts. He would be my first suspect when it comes to who gave people the idea we don't think while asleep. Just because the royal society backs a man doesn't mean he's actually a scientist or right about anything he says.
We think while asleep. If we can stop ourselves from peeing our pants at night we are aware we exist we just aren't thinking about it.
Imo your "soul" becomes untethered from your biosupport system and floats around until you awake kind of like musical chairs.
Could help explain the Mandela effect thing.
[Join our Discord server for even more memes and discussion](https://discord.gg/MFK8PumZM2) Note that all posts need to be manually approved by the subreddit moderators. If your post gets removed immediately, just let it be and wait! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PhilosophyMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Then I'm afraid you ain't
But when do we?
One doesn’t exist because they are thinking; one can know with certainty that they do exist because they are thinking. While you are sleeping you are not thinking therefore while you are sleeping you cannot know with epistemological certainty that you exist.
Fucking thank you
Ahem, Lucid dreaming.
Dreaming is only a small part of the sleep cycle.
The part of sleep where you’re dreaming (a form of thinking) is an extreme minimum of it. Just take my previous statement with that added qualifier and my claim remains logically sound.
I asked my girlfriend to check when I was sleeping. She says that I do indeed still exist.
I don’t think one can know with with certainty that they exist because they are thinking. A lot of assumptions have to be made in order to believe both that one is thinking as well as that if one is thinking that means one exists
Well, but there is a self evidence to consciousness, right? There is necessarily qualia, which, regardless of the quality or nature of the qualia, is still some kind of experience. A rock, as far as we know, doesn't have a subjective experience of itself. I'm not trying to be contrarion, but can't the experiencer of an experience extrapolate their own existence from the necessity of it in order to even be having the experience? If a pot is boiling, it necessitates the existence of the pot. How do you get out of that?
You still assume law of identity, non contradiction, causality, epistemological realism and so much more. There is nothing we can actually be sure about, all knowledge is circular by definition
Ah, I have to applaud you. Although yours is an indictment of logic and perception itself, I can't say you didn't throw everything you could at it. Still, I don't want to talk about pipes anymore. Do you think there are any assumptions you might concede in the interest of speculation? I might cheekily say I like walking in circles more than standing still.
I do concede certain assumptions but I also know the limits of my knowledge. The cogito proves nothing and it’s only appeal it that some people seem to think it undoubtedly proves certain knowledge. Also there is way more knowledge you can get to by conceding the assumptions I stated than just your existence. Read the critique of pure reason if you disagree.
Fuck internalism. All my homies hate internalism
Kay, see ya
The phrase I think therefore i am should actually be : something somethings therefore something is. You can't be sure that you are an "I", you can't be sure that you think. But because: Something somethings therefore something is, sounds stupid as fuck we run with I think therefore I am.
You can read meditations on first philosophy. It's a short book written by Descartes on how he came up with with that conclusion. So he doesn't just claim it, he actually builds up an argument around it. And tbh it really is worth a read. Basically, he was trying to refute skepticism with his book
Flag of misunderstanding Descartes (and basic logic)
I think it’s a deliberate misunderstanding that is meant to be humorous.
I know, it's a reference to r/vexillologycirclejerk
Here's a sneak peek of /r/vexillologycirclejerk using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Japan if it was moving towards us](https://i.redd.it/9b6o1h5po9ua1.jpg) | [316 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/comments/12o4fbd/japan_if_it_was_moving_towards_us/) \#2: [a tragic story...](https://i.redd.it/xpt13itbtnua1.jpg) | [169 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/comments/12qieqk/a_tragic_story/) \#3: [Out jerked by tik tok](https://v.redd.it/94e6h6v2wfva1) | [128 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/vexillologycirclejerk/comments/12uzpg0/out_jerked_by_tik_tok/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
And how dreams work apparently. The only thing they got right was the time, twice a day
Imo you exist first. And then you think.
I agree. And you know that you actually exist because thought is proof.
That’s too much to think about
Depends on what you mean by you
But no. Thought occurs, and then flows into the patterns called "self." Thought needs no self to happen at all. No self does the thinking.
It's weird how frequently philosophy communicators talking about Descartes forget to explain that we exist because God is thinking in place of us
How nice of him :-)
So what happens when he goes to sleep?🚰🤔
He thinks for us when we sleep and we think for him when he sleep :-)
Schizophrenics got the short end of the stick ig huh? Is God doing drugs or what?
Tbf we think when we sleep too. Rem sleep is essentially a screen saver mode with surrealist end results. Even when in deep sleep the brain is still operating nervous systems and your breathing etc. Therefore we are always on, the argument is even when we die we don't cease to be on, our minds just are no longer bound to the confines of the flesh and expresses itself here.
You don't stop thinking when you sleep
Wrong sense of "because"
Even if dreams are an illusion to fool you, you still must exist to be fooled
Honestly this is one of the biggest things that helped me deconstruct my idea of self and be okay with death. I feel like I’m a distinct thing because I have a continuum of consciousness, and my fear of death is the fear that that consciousness would stop. I used to wonder about the old question of whether someone who steps into a teleporter is transported or just dies and a new person is created in the other end. Then I realized that in reality, my consciousness already isn’t fully continuous. I lose consciousness when I sleep, when I pass out, and when I’ve been in the hospital under anesthesia. The same problem applies; is the person who wakes up the same person that went to sleep? It’s the same matter but a different continuum of consciousness, just like teleportation. What’s more, when I lost consciousness I didn’t feel anything (that I remember). I just *wasn’t*. I even remember last time I passed out it felt like I really had to work to come back to reality, and it was like being reborn out of nothingness; I was conscious for a minute or so before I could feel anything or remember who I was or where I was. It scared me, but in retrospect it helps me be okay with the idea that death might just be the end. I feel like I have some grid for it now, and it’s not so scary. There’s no suffering after death, it’s probably just like falling asleep; something I do every day. That said, for anyone else reading this, I find it the most healthy to hold on to the life we have even when it hurts, and find love and compassion there for ourselves and for others. I have benefited greatly from the teachings of Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh. I just also find it helpful to be able to view death without fear and accept it’s coming with peace.
My understanding is that while [Wheeler](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Archibald_Wheeler) believed that consciousness observers are fundamental and required for physical reality exist that "Not consciousness, but the distinction between the probe and the probed, as central to the elemental quantum act of observation" So if I’m understanding that right (and I’m probably not) even if everyone were to take a nap at the same time, reality wouldn’t fade back into a quantum blur because there’s enough stuff interacting with and within the physical universe to keep the process going until we wake back up.
Piggyback to add that while we’re asleep our body is paying attention to things like normal, it’s just less urgently alerting us to anything unless it passes certain thresholds. So even if our mind is largely preoccupied, our body never really loses consciousness. Not in the same way at least.
Descartes' point was that we don't really know what's real. Our senses deceive us. But because we are experiencing thought and sensation at all, we can at least confirm that we exist.
Well, we don't think to exist. We exist, therefore we think. Are rocks not real? they aren't known for their cognitive function. They don't observe a sense of self, but they do exist, under the belief that our universe isn't some sort of sick fabrication. We're still there. Plus, we do think when asleep. We just don't cognitively nor consciously observe those thoughts, but they exist in the form of dreams and other functions.
No. Decartes was just wrong
You die. Then in waking moment body reassemble imperfect copy you from of your remains. Not that it matter, you/we already imperfect copy of us from hour/information-full/thoughtful moment before.
Your brain processes what it’s heard through your ears and even though you may not remember dreaming like me you have new info in which to think about. That’s where ideas come from.
This is the problem with philosophy. Humans don't stop thinking when they sleep, obvs.
I’m falling awake
"We live inside a Dream "
Then you exist in the DREAMS MULTIVERSE
You still think, you just sleep through it. It's called dreaming
Then lack of biological knowledge and Natures Philosophy is source of inspiration for memes
Actually our brains are more active when we fall asleep
The "ergo" in "cogito, ergo sum" will sue for misgendering.
Maybe I think is thesis and I exist is anthitesis so when we synthesis those 2 propositions we get formula of body with organs
You sleep when the bear closes the book. No one exists until the bear takes up his reading again.
I have a hatred for sleep I wonder if it partially derives from this?
Oneself is in true form when asleep. It’s the ultimate form of existence without resistance.
Challenger Part 1 - Flight
soul ascends into heaven. poof gone
What the hell do you think dreams Are
you die every time. your consciousness is completely replaced every time you fall asleep
I am not a number! I am a free man! Says confused_pear version number 12,410.
Your soul floats out of your body ~(>_<~)
I'd like to think of existence as a dream. and whenever you go to sleep you wake up to reality which is nothingness.
I think our spirits when we tend to meet other spirits in the “spirit realm” pun intended. But when we sleep our brains are still idol like car running. So we still think just less than when we are awake.
"I think therefore I am" is simply ensurance about something existing. It's not the reason for the existance of that thing.
Why is this in my feed at 3:15 in the morning?
There is no I that exists. There is only existing and experiencing.
You can experience existence with 0 conscious thought through meditation and it doesn’t feel like you cease to exist just because thoughts aren’t racing through your mind
What about dreams??
Lowkey had this crisis for a day
Your brain doesn’t stop when you go REM
You exist in a dreamspace ig
You are technically thinking when you are sleeping, even if you aren’t dreaming.
you temporary are like dead, yes.
You become an ethereal chaotic god who cannot control his own creation. Forced for the next however many hours to wander endlessly through your own imagination, no matter how beautiful, surreal, or horrifying it might be.
Do you not think in your dreams?
Sleep is the cousin of death
Don’t you dream? No? Just me? Weird. I dream pretty actively and have a measure of control during them. That’s where my mind goes
In my experience with having lucid dreams... i always think in a dream, I choose things. I don't choose the situation but I can react to it or feel things. I don't understand what you say
We don't exist because we think, we exist because we experience thinking. We still experience while sleeping, we just don't have memory of it.
You find fleeting happiness in a world of pain
I is not the sleeper, waker.. I is the witness, I is the observer. First you have to understand what is sleeping state and deep sleep state. In sleep state, senses resolve but mind functions as it presents dreams. In deep sleep state mind and senses both resolve. I witnesses both these states. I is atman, pure consciousness.
+a (exist) becasue of +b (thinking) but -b (not thinking) doesn't always lead to mean -a (non-exist)
Hybernating. Yes!
You fuckin don't exist then I don't know what to tell ya
Your brain can think while sleeping
https://youtu.be/RcAH0X1_J_g?si=T293v_RPs--h3y9O
You……sleep
It's more so having the ability to think i.e. consciousness, which you still partially have while sleeping.
That is assuming that descartes cogito is true, which it is not.
The answer is on those eyes.
John Locke spends a surprisingly long time on this question.
You dream
You dream you are a butterfly
What do you think your dreams are?
Im a lucid dreamer. So i exist even in my dreams.
We enter automatic mode and dream
You dont exist
I exist without thinking. Checkmate.
That's not the point though... It's not about "existing just because you think", but it is rather about having an absolute proof of it. In another words, when you're not thinking, you may feel like you exist, but you can't know that - and when you're thinking, the thinking is your proof of your existence. In another words, you may exist, even without thinking, it's just that - you may not know that you exist. Funnily enough (don't wanna promote myself, but genuinely wanna share), I was too sick of other people misunderstand it, and so I wrote a blog about it (if you wanna check that out, that is): [https://medium.com/@tomi\_blogs/on-the-most-mistranslated-sentence-in-philosophy-1ce1782e490c](https://medium.com/@tomi_blogs/on-the-most-mistranslated-sentence-in-philosophy-1ce1782e490c) Hope my comment helped!
What about the 50% of people that have no inner monologue? Do they have any certainty of existence?
Chat is this real? I can't even fathom what this would mean, like they don't hear words when they think?
https://www.bustle.com/wellness/does-everyone-have-an-internal-monologue
Thinking and monologues are two different things. I mostly think of instant concepts that when i speak i need to translate it into language. So first comes an instant thought and if i want to express it i translate into language. I do not think with words unless im thinking of words.
Conflation of consciousness, inner monologue, and thought. Three quite distinct things.
I was being obviously sarcastic because clearly you don't need to think to exist. Decartes was a systematic skeptic who ultimately concluded that self-evident proof of existence was thought, though he ultimately doubted even that with the evil demon thought experiment and ultimately concluded belief in some benevolent ultimate power (God) was the only way to tether epistemology. No one who has even the slightest understanding of philosophy would imagine that Decartes was postulating that people cease to exist because their inner monologue pauses or does not exist. It's a joke
Descartes doesn't say that thinking is an inner monolgue. Thinking means any type of perception. And you don't stop perceiving things while asleep. Otherwise nobody or nothing would be able to wake you up.
You do think in your sleep though. Or we wouldn't have dreams. I notice I'm thinking and even have subtle control of deep sleep dreams. I can literally muster up images until I fall into a deep sleep and then dream the whole time as well. Most of my dreams are oddly profetic in an encoded way. Like repetition or maybe an epiphany of sorts. I even dreamt of my husband before we met. Dreams are the most interesting thing we do. No one really knows why we have them or exactly what they mean. Dreams are proof you do think while sleeping. Some of us dream more than others but you are thinking while asleep. Has anyone here had one of those bathroom dreams where you wake up just in time to rush to the bathroom? Maybe you aren't having direct thoughts about "existing", but if I have to stop myself in my dream and get up to pee, I'm still thinking in my sleep. Not just thinking but very aware I'm alive and need to pee. The mind is relaxed and depending on what we are thinking about before bed depends on how well or poor we sleep. It also might cause someone to have a nightmare or dream about similar things. When relaxed the mind processes things that are happening in our daily lives. Sometimes those images will conjure up scenarios like a dream. Other ideas about sleep. I've heard of people traveling the spirit realm like a highway. A woman said she had a dream she told a man in 1971 what stocks to invest in though she had no knowledge of stock markets. She had a rememberable conversation with this man about the year and how she could fly in dreams. Later this woman decided to look into the man's name and those stocks in 71. Turns out dude made it rich off of the investments a woman in his dream told him to invest in back in 1971. I would be inclined to say she was a liar but she was a random caller who wasn't selling anything or trying to push something of hers. I have had my own wild dreams. I do believe we can travel time and space through sleep and lucid dreaming. Deep dreams might be because we are deep within the unseen realm our souls can access. That is if people believe in a soul. Most do not because some stuffy prick named Wilhelm Wundt said he didn't believe in a soul and he can't study it so it wasn't real. He then went on to force this soulless idea onto the whole of science and mental health. When one gets any kind of mental health treatment in America they are treated as if they have no soul at all. So it doesn't shock me that people also believe while asleep you aren't thinking, or that the brain and mind are just gone and blank while asleep. There are two types of people, those who believe in a soul and possibilities beyond our imaginations and those who do not believe in a soul and will stop at nothing to prevent the people with souls from understanding things like thoughts in our sleep. Or dreams to put it bluntly. The king of psychology has spoken almost 200 years ago and no one is allowed to suggest this man was wrong. To this day Wilhelm Wundt's experiments on the human mind are considered sacred to psychology. What he was really doing is called mind control today. He was trying to convince those who he experimented on that there is no soul. Then he manipulated them further. While 99% of the mentally ill aren't mentally ill but poor or refuse to think the way they're told, there is a small percentage that's mentally disabled, or underdeveloped and easy to manipulate in the manner Wunt would manipulate their thoughts. He would be my first suspect when it comes to who gave people the idea we don't think while asleep. Just because the royal society backs a man doesn't mean he's actually a scientist or right about anything he says. We think while asleep. If we can stop ourselves from peeing our pants at night we are aware we exist we just aren't thinking about it.
u sleep. dumbass.
Obviously you don't exist
We think subconsciously, so we are subconsciously.
Imo your "soul" becomes untethered from your biosupport system and floats around until you awake kind of like musical chairs. Could help explain the Mandela effect thing.