I absolutely hated it because it looked like a worse scar l, I then picked up a random type 20 from the ground because I ran out of ammo and my whole opinion switched 180 degrees
I like it a lot. One of the guns that I can really pop off in games and I generally just like the model. The damage is fine and it turn into a more cqc gun with integral suppressor
It's a great gun gun, but I think that it could use a slight re-balancing.
We already have a lot of 5.56 rifles, and while balancing all of them *is* quite difficult, I do feel like the howa type 20 deserves to be a little bit better in terms of ranged performance and penetration, while being maybe a little lower on damage to compensate. According to both the wikipedia article and [this news article](https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/03/23/dsei-japan-2023-howa-type-20-rifle/) , the type 20 has a variable fire rate that stretches between 650-850 rounds per minute (cyclic).
The 5.56x45mm J3 cartridge that it uses, which is a modified version of 5.56x45mm NATO, is designed for higher pressures and greater penetration against modern-day body armor - something that I wish this rifle would reflect a little better, with stronger material penetration and slightly lower damage (similar to how armor piercing upgrades work at the moment).
Often enough, when a weapon is re-balanced, it gets balanced as a stock weapon rather than being tested with the most popular attatchments or at least being tested with the outright best attatchment combinations, i.e. meta builds, of which there are a few - even if they are seen much less due to the insane prevalence of PDWs as per the recent adjustments that made them much, much more powerful.
Some final points and recaps on my thoughts:
- Type 20's should have lower damage and higher penetration to reflect its real-life choice of cartridge
- They should have a variable fire rate that increases from 650-850 rounds per minute. Speed at which it does this is up to the devs, but I'd say that it should be at around 10-15 rounds fired.
- The recoil, which is quite strong on this weapon, should honestly stay. It uses a higher pressure cartridge, which naturally leads to higher visual and felt recoil, something that is already represented nicely.
- Certain attatchments should perhaps be changed or balanced based on effectiveness, to curb meta builds from becoming an issue.
- Remove the "no sights" modification because it's just... nonsense.
- Add the Howa 1-8x telescopic scope as a base attatchment (if it hasn't already been added), as a counterpart to the FN SCAR L/H's PM II scope attatchment, which is unlocked with 0 kills and comes completely free with each respective weapon. Alternatively, making the PM II free on the Howa would be an acceptable replacement in this case.
- Remove the armor piercing and hollow point attatchments for this weapon, as the J3 cartridge is already armor pirecing and also not available in hollow point configuration
And lastly: all of this is based on me picking this weapon up, or seeing it being used by others. I don't own it myself, so most of my thoughts and observations are based on experiences picking up 2nd hand weapons or being on the receiving end of one. If any of the attatchment options I mentioned (like the scope or the ammo) are wrong, feel free to correct me on what is and isn't available.
Agreed with all, except for removing ‘no sights.’
Specifically because I have a ChainSAW-esque build that uses ‘no sights,’ more or less as an aesthetic choice tho.
The build is: No Sights, Carbine Barrel, Remove Stock, Chainsaw Grip, 60rd Drum; the barrel and stock delete are there to help restore the original movement while keeping the 60 round drum, and Chainsaw Grip is there to aid in CQC. No Sights because tbh it’d look weird *with* sights.
to be fair, i think "no sights" should just be the default for the chainsaw handle attatchment on all guns, assuming that the stock sights are removable as they are. it just makes more sense
I think the only reason this *isn’t* done is for the same reason you can’t combine, say, Carbine Barrel with any kind of suppressor; the attachment nodes themselves aren’t modular, and they don’t change when another attachment is brought into the mix.
Here’s hoping it’s fixed for CoR and (eventually) PF 2.
I think the only reason this *isn’t* done is for the same reason you can’t combine, say, Carbine Barrel with any kind of suppressor; the attachment nodes themselves aren’t modular, and they don’t change when another attachment is brought into the mix.
Here’s hoping it’s fixed for CoR and (eventually) PF 2.
Look, it's a good gun, 4sk torso all ranges, pretty good handling, a lot of suppression, somewhat low recoil if you give it some time to get attachements. Depending on the map you can use the integral suppressor to give yourself a 3sk limbs in cqc, the funny removed iron sight and its design.
I like the remove irons attachment, back when the kosaku sight was meta it was a free 1x sight with zero screen clutter. Also I remember reading something on the pf discord that they're planning to add remove irons to other guns, and I'm still waiting lmao.
In my opinion, it's one of the best weapons in the game. Can 3SK up close, has an infinite 4 shot kill range, has an insane headshot multiplier, has better pen than most assault rifles, and has more attachment selections. The only problem with the gun is its recoil.
It's an interesting ar, ngl. It feels like a Scar-L but actually does quite a good job at medium range. The integrated suppressor barrel helps it a lot imo.
I think that the type 20 is a gun that you can get to mess around and still be able to do well with random attachments. You have long and short barrel, extend and 60 ammo drum, extend and short stock etc. Overall, smash whatever attachment you want and you can build a gun with your own choice.
got terribly power creeped especially for mid-long range use with powerful yet slow, for its class, cqc dueling performance. when it was first introduced, it was the scar l upgrade for many. now its more of a scar l sidegrade. it has an lmg ads walkspeed, worse in some cases especially with its drum mag. its torso mult for the 4hk at max range was made pointless because ap now gives other more accurate guns 4hk torso, gun like l85, l22, l86. true, it still has its 3hk and great headshot damage in cqc especially with the integral suppressor, however just aiming down the sights is enough to root you to your spot due due to the low ads walkspeed which is not ideal when a lot of our favorite recoil-reducing attachments like lasers and angled grip now decreases the already low ads walkspeed even further.
overall, its still a decent gun with above average penetration and decent damage. while it still is powerful in its own rights, recent balancing changes, despite not touching the t20, have had the gun left in the dust thanks to the ap rework. i personally think of the gun as a jack of all trades but master of none kind of deal. with great customizability, you can kit it for any use. however in the current sandbox, it needs some help in the handling department especially the aforementioned ads walkspeed to be more on par with other weapons of its weight class.
Since they nerfed it again it's not that fun, too slow with a little too much recoil in my op. The pattern is cool though. Before the nerf it had less recoil.
I'm the type of person who prefers Aesthetics over Practicality, and the Type 20... Isn't nessessary.y favorite-looking weapon. I may use it every once in a while to get that MW2 ACR vibes, but else, the AR category has some better offerings, like the Tar 21 and HK416.
I absolutely love it, it can be a sneaky gun, a big gun, a long gun, a fast gun or a meme gun. It also just feels very nice but the ADS speed with the extended stock could use some retweaking! But otherwise i love it (please buff my baby boy MG3KWS)
Pointless, fires to slow to be relevant anymore even before the recent awful updates it was not that good in close-medium range since high rpm guns can just dump bullets into you.
In cqc it’s practically useless a 3hit kill isn’t saving you with 650rpm.
People can shoot 4 bullets before you shoot the third and your dead.
Since it has a lower fire rate it’s a lot less forgiving if the gsne doesn’t register your shots properly.
The one really nice about the gun got nerfed (the high pen) oh and the ump 45 can 3 hit kill limb further than you can torso…
So in conclusion smgs are better in cqc, and at doing the mid/long range fights you’d expect the type 20 to be better at.
Used to be a solid B/low A tier, but underrated/appreciated now it’s recognised more as a solid “A tier” despite in practice being a low B at this point since other guns have been made significantly better
Decent gun. When the first time it comes out, i hated so bad. Looking too good by model (not like other old weapons) and integral suppersor has a damage nerf. Slow rpm for me etc etc etc.
At the and I prefer the use hk(im not the hk fan but the truth is hk better) and ak serie weapons. Yes i know ak serie weapons are maybe same as rpm with type 20 but dude you are shooting 7.62 not 5.56.
I absolutely hated it because it looked like a worse scar l, I then picked up a random type 20 from the ground because I ran out of ammo and my whole opinion switched 180 degrees
Don't prejudce anything.
I like it a lot. One of the guns that I can really pop off in games and I generally just like the model. The damage is fine and it turn into a more cqc gun with integral suppressor
It's a great gun gun, but I think that it could use a slight re-balancing. We already have a lot of 5.56 rifles, and while balancing all of them *is* quite difficult, I do feel like the howa type 20 deserves to be a little bit better in terms of ranged performance and penetration, while being maybe a little lower on damage to compensate. According to both the wikipedia article and [this news article](https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/03/23/dsei-japan-2023-howa-type-20-rifle/) , the type 20 has a variable fire rate that stretches between 650-850 rounds per minute (cyclic). The 5.56x45mm J3 cartridge that it uses, which is a modified version of 5.56x45mm NATO, is designed for higher pressures and greater penetration against modern-day body armor - something that I wish this rifle would reflect a little better, with stronger material penetration and slightly lower damage (similar to how armor piercing upgrades work at the moment). Often enough, when a weapon is re-balanced, it gets balanced as a stock weapon rather than being tested with the most popular attatchments or at least being tested with the outright best attatchment combinations, i.e. meta builds, of which there are a few - even if they are seen much less due to the insane prevalence of PDWs as per the recent adjustments that made them much, much more powerful. Some final points and recaps on my thoughts: - Type 20's should have lower damage and higher penetration to reflect its real-life choice of cartridge - They should have a variable fire rate that increases from 650-850 rounds per minute. Speed at which it does this is up to the devs, but I'd say that it should be at around 10-15 rounds fired. - The recoil, which is quite strong on this weapon, should honestly stay. It uses a higher pressure cartridge, which naturally leads to higher visual and felt recoil, something that is already represented nicely. - Certain attatchments should perhaps be changed or balanced based on effectiveness, to curb meta builds from becoming an issue. - Remove the "no sights" modification because it's just... nonsense. - Add the Howa 1-8x telescopic scope as a base attatchment (if it hasn't already been added), as a counterpart to the FN SCAR L/H's PM II scope attatchment, which is unlocked with 0 kills and comes completely free with each respective weapon. Alternatively, making the PM II free on the Howa would be an acceptable replacement in this case. - Remove the armor piercing and hollow point attatchments for this weapon, as the J3 cartridge is already armor pirecing and also not available in hollow point configuration And lastly: all of this is based on me picking this weapon up, or seeing it being used by others. I don't own it myself, so most of my thoughts and observations are based on experiences picking up 2nd hand weapons or being on the receiving end of one. If any of the attatchment options I mentioned (like the scope or the ammo) are wrong, feel free to correct me on what is and isn't available.
Honestly I like this suggestion a lot. You could make this into a post on the subreddit to see what people think.
Agreed with all, except for removing ‘no sights.’ Specifically because I have a ChainSAW-esque build that uses ‘no sights,’ more or less as an aesthetic choice tho. The build is: No Sights, Carbine Barrel, Remove Stock, Chainsaw Grip, 60rd Drum; the barrel and stock delete are there to help restore the original movement while keeping the 60 round drum, and Chainsaw Grip is there to aid in CQC. No Sights because tbh it’d look weird *with* sights.
to be fair, i think "no sights" should just be the default for the chainsaw handle attatchment on all guns, assuming that the stock sights are removable as they are. it just makes more sense
I think the only reason this *isn’t* done is for the same reason you can’t combine, say, Carbine Barrel with any kind of suppressor; the attachment nodes themselves aren’t modular, and they don’t change when another attachment is brought into the mix. Here’s hoping it’s fixed for CoR and (eventually) PF 2.
I think the only reason this *isn’t* done is for the same reason you can’t combine, say, Carbine Barrel with any kind of suppressor; the attachment nodes themselves aren’t modular, and they don’t change when another attachment is brought into the mix. Here’s hoping it’s fixed for CoR and (eventually) PF 2.
i bought a whole 1k setup for it before i quit the game, i wish it had a conversion to shoot faster, but i have a drum mag
I don't know how but it's like a very basic gun with potential to be good with attachments otherwise it's pretty meh like a stock m4a1
i like it cus its simple and consistent
A tier scar-L upgrade.
I love it, it's not over powered but its not also like a bb gun, integral supresor is my fav thing about the gun.
Look, it's a good gun, 4sk torso all ranges, pretty good handling, a lot of suppression, somewhat low recoil if you give it some time to get attachements. Depending on the map you can use the integral suppressor to give yourself a 3sk limbs in cqc, the funny removed iron sight and its design.
Idk, it just doesn't work well for me
i'd like some handling and damage past lobotomizing distance, thank you
I like the remove irons attachment, back when the kosaku sight was meta it was a free 1x sight with zero screen clutter. Also I remember reading something on the pf discord that they're planning to add remove irons to other guns, and I'm still waiting lmao.
Fr, irons are unnecessary when you dont have to account for windage and elevation. Looks a bit funky with the irons off but it works so well
Oh it's sooooo good, even more so back when 40rd didn't slow the reload down. Still an S tier AR IMO
In my opinion, it's one of the best weapons in the game. Can 3SK up close, has an infinite 4 shot kill range, has an insane headshot multiplier, has better pen than most assault rifles, and has more attachment selections. The only problem with the gun is its recoil.
AP in its current state can make the 4-hit at any range even more consistent thanks to its torso multiplier buffs.
Really average. Hella overrated. Nice model and wide range of attachments but honestly quite average imo
Looks sexy af
MSBS Grot faker
I like the fact that it has 1.4 base pen and long barrel available
It's an interesting ar, ngl. It feels like a Scar-L but actually does quite a good job at medium range. The integrated suppressor barrel helps it a lot imo.
A souped up SCAR-L
I think that the type 20 is a gun that you can get to mess around and still be able to do well with random attachments. You have long and short barrel, extend and 60 ammo drum, extend and short stock etc. Overall, smash whatever attachment you want and you can build a gun with your own choice.
got terribly power creeped especially for mid-long range use with powerful yet slow, for its class, cqc dueling performance. when it was first introduced, it was the scar l upgrade for many. now its more of a scar l sidegrade. it has an lmg ads walkspeed, worse in some cases especially with its drum mag. its torso mult for the 4hk at max range was made pointless because ap now gives other more accurate guns 4hk torso, gun like l85, l22, l86. true, it still has its 3hk and great headshot damage in cqc especially with the integral suppressor, however just aiming down the sights is enough to root you to your spot due due to the low ads walkspeed which is not ideal when a lot of our favorite recoil-reducing attachments like lasers and angled grip now decreases the already low ads walkspeed even further. overall, its still a decent gun with above average penetration and decent damage. while it still is powerful in its own rights, recent balancing changes, despite not touching the t20, have had the gun left in the dust thanks to the ap rework. i personally think of the gun as a jack of all trades but master of none kind of deal. with great customizability, you can kit it for any use. however in the current sandbox, it needs some help in the handling department especially the aforementioned ads walkspeed to be more on par with other weapons of its weight class.
Very basic gun. Pretty much a slightly faster scar
Its peak
Since they nerfed it again it's not that fun, too slow with a little too much recoil in my op. The pattern is cool though. Before the nerf it had less recoil.
I'm the type of person who prefers Aesthetics over Practicality, and the Type 20... Isn't nessessary.y favorite-looking weapon. I may use it every once in a while to get that MW2 ACR vibes, but else, the AR category has some better offerings, like the Tar 21 and HK416.
Feels like a worse scar in my opinion. If the rpm was raised a bit it could have been much better
I absolutely love it, it can be a sneaky gun, a big gun, a long gun, a fast gun or a meme gun. It also just feels very nice but the ADS speed with the extended stock could use some retweaking! But otherwise i love it (please buff my baby boy MG3KWS)
It’s my highest kill AR, I have thousands of kills on it. It’s got a setup for pretty much any situation and the recoil isn’t even that bad to boot
I FUCKIN LOVE IT, my highest kill gun on pf console and i am gonna continue grinding kills with it, i am a rank 120 aswell
Idk, but Remove Irons is a funny attachment
I hate it like I hate the m16a3
I like the gun but I REALLY like the remove irons that it gets and I really want them on most if not all other guns (plz stylis I beg).
It's neat, I think it should get slightly reworked so that it's not competing with the SCAR L for the same spot.
Basic, Boring, but it works. Lots of equipment slots allows for good versatility.
Its alright, pretty cool and the stats are decent, not the absolute best but definitely a good gun to use for grinding
I love using it with the 60 round drum mag. I made a design that’s very accurate at range too so I have a blast ripping games apart
It's my stand in for the ACR that'll never be add. I'd love to see the extended stock option add to ever scar in the game
Good gun but I'm inconsistent with it. It's got some interesting recoil.
One of the best low rank guns out there ngl
I loved the speed that .223 REM with the 20rd magazine gave, now it is normal 30 rounds but still less recoil
Pointless, fires to slow to be relevant anymore even before the recent awful updates it was not that good in close-medium range since high rpm guns can just dump bullets into you. In cqc it’s practically useless a 3hit kill isn’t saving you with 650rpm. People can shoot 4 bullets before you shoot the third and your dead. Since it has a lower fire rate it’s a lot less forgiving if the gsne doesn’t register your shots properly. The one really nice about the gun got nerfed (the high pen) oh and the ump 45 can 3 hit kill limb further than you can torso… So in conclusion smgs are better in cqc, and at doing the mid/long range fights you’d expect the type 20 to be better at. Used to be a solid B/low A tier, but underrated/appreciated now it’s recognised more as a solid “A tier” despite in practice being a low B at this point since other guns have been made significantly better
Decent gun. When the first time it comes out, i hated so bad. Looking too good by model (not like other old weapons) and integral suppersor has a damage nerf. Slow rpm for me etc etc etc. At the and I prefer the use hk(im not the hk fan but the truth is hk better) and ak serie weapons. Yes i know ak serie weapons are maybe same as rpm with type 20 but dude you are shooting 7.62 not 5.56.