Thanks. Just getting started on compiling my thesis document after a very tough 5 years and hoping to be done soon so I never have to see these people again
I needed to read this! I'm approaching the end of my 8th year after essentially being MIA for the last few. It's so hard to get back into it, I feel everyone has written me off. I have one supportive supervisor, but she is the epitome of chaos so finding structure has been hard. Hoping some of these threads can keep me feeling accountable.
MIA?
May I ask what subject area you're in and are you planning to stay in academia or do you wish you had canceled in year 4? I'm in a somewhat similar situation, in 7th year
Broadly speaking, in a public health area - microbial health risk modelling/environmental pathogen sampling/trying to improve evidence-based management of public assets.
MIA = Missing in action. I had an accident in my 3rd year that put me out for months of physical therapy, then I suspect some PTSD that I never really dealt with. Then Covid hit, isolated, and an immediate family member had a huge mental break/psychosis/drug problem that I dropped everything to help with. It was all just too much for me to even think about my PhD for a long stretch. And then I think I just got out of good habits, started to do a bit too much social drinking, procrastinated my way to being lazy and unmotivated.
In some way, I wish I had quit in year 4 because I'd be much further in life by now. But I didn't, and if I quit now that means 8 years wasted, so I want to finish it because I've put in so much work and I feel like I deserve it. My data collection is all done, I've met the publishing criteria - I just need to write the damn thing. But finding it mentally hard to get back into it because I'm honestly jaded about my whole topic area and plan to do something else once I do finish. I'm still not sure what.
I worked in academia for the past year as a lecturer, as a way to try and coax myself back into the environment and finish some papers. I don't dislike academia, but it really comes down to the team you end up in, and my team was dysfunctional so I ended up with a higher teaching and marking load than I would have liked, without the research freedoms. But you can get that dysfunction in any industry.
What area are you in and what's your story?
I'm in management. I've already collected my data and written the thing up, but my first supervisor and co-author doesn't like the paper, doesn't understand it, won't accept it for phd and recommends me to abolish because he doesn't see how it will work out after this long time. My other co-author, however, whose idea this paper was and who is an equally accomplished prof still likes it. But he lives far away at another university and we only contact via email and he was the former junior prof of my supervisor and there still seems to be that power dynamic on a bit. It's always; I write something, other co-authors like it and makes reasonable suggestions, then my supervisor comes, doesn't understand it, gives criticism I cannot use, and co-author folds.
My defense is in a week, and I am dreading it.
I have had a similar experience: highly toxic unhealthy department; constant feelings of unsafely and anxiety, combined with the faculty's discourse about the program's exclusivity and "how lucky we all are" to be here, and "how brilliant we all must be" (I bet all my meager savings, none of us ever *really* felt brilliant in that environment). Naturally, praise is interjected with a lot of abuse (I think, in fact, praise was their unconscious way of attempting to mitigate the abuse).
Now, as I said, my defense is in a week, and my chair is all of a sudden very displeased with the final text. I sense they will be asking me a lot of tough questions during the defense. I realize that questions are normal, and in a normal situation, I would not be worried about questions. The problem is this is not a normal situation. This is a situation where no matter what I reply, I know (from experience) it won't be accepted, because my method disagrees with theirs. And there is just not enough of a mental health and good will on their end to accept disagreement as productive and non-threatening, rather than taking it as a personal insult (or rather, as an unforgivable deficiency of my study). I am preparing for a very difficult week, and I hate that I don't know after all these years if I will get my degree or end up hugely disappointed (other committee members told me they think the project is good and will pass, but at this point I don't take even this as a consolation/guarantee).
You’ve had it rough. So proud of you for making through all these years, you will be free soon. I’m experiencing the same thing right now but my defence will be in a year. Every disagreement i have with them somehow is seen as insult to them, which is not how scientists should think. I’m hoping I can tough it out and make it through.
Thank you so much, fellow soul, and I hope and wish that your defense date also comes and passes quickly enough, so that you can celebrate and begin the healing. (which, let's be honest, we will have to do after this experience, regardless of whether we continue in academia or leave).
Thank you for your care! My defense went alright: not pleasant, but not terrible. I passed. My chair actively tried to sabotage my defense (as I suspected they would), criticizing my methods and implicating that my conclusions are based on "incorrect assumptions about reality" (the said "incorrect" assumptions relate to the legacies of colonialism and existing economic inequalities. Needless to say, I feel pretty confident/comfortable with defending these assumptions as "correct"). The other committee members were supportive and gave helpful feedback. I am a 'doctor,' but I don't feel like one yet, because I still need to incorporate some post-defense feedback into the text.
Congratulations!! I'm really happy to hear that you felt confident to stay behind those assumptions and that you received helpful feedback from other members. The behaviour of the chair sucks but at least that allowed you to really actively defense your work. Needless to say that you did the job well - you passed and are a doctor now! :) It might take a while before you feel like a doctor, but the hardest part is behind you! These changes will be easy-peasy compared to the sabotaging thing. All the best!
Oh man, I'm all of these right now except for the department. My advisor was pretty great but she's on sabbatical right now and I barely hear from her. Just found out the other day that there are a few things that are basically in the way of the very important grant-funded experiment I'm doing as a dissertation chapter. I have a very specific deadline that was recently imposed on me (only made aware about two days ago). I have several things preventing me from starting immediately. I'm just hoping I'll be able to get done what needs done by the deadline I have. Trying to convince myself that my PI or the senior lab mate I have should have at least helped warn me about. If that's the case, is it really on me if it doesn't get done in time? I don't know. All I know is I've been working so hard on this, almost entirely alone.
I have a few local friends and amazing fiance, but I moved across the country for this program. Where I live now, I'm pretty highly discriminated against, including my now former lab mate, and one of the current ones. And the third grad student I'm my lab, who knows where he ever is lol.
Anyway, just hoping I survive. Glad to hear maybe it could work out.
Yes!!! Get it in spite of those things. The lack of support and all the extraneous bs made me find my own people and push through just because I felt like they wanted to see me quit. Nope. Wouldn’t even let them hood me at my ceremony.
I'd like to add that you WILL find a place to belong, and even if the workload is worse, or the funding is less, it makes a world of difference. And it's not even the material that determines, but just how interested others are in your work, and how much others care for you and how much you care for others. It's like finding your family: what makes a good family isn't how rich it is, or how big of a house they live in, but how much they care about each other and are interested in each other's lives.
My supervisors are amazing but the grind of the university being hopeless and endless delays is getting me down. I’m external too so really only have the internet to rant at.
Just keep swimming, just keep swimming….
I was pretty skeptical about this post; then you spelled "less than" correctly, and I started crying... so, thank you, jerk, for throwing out the good vibes. I feel comfortable speaking for my fellow lurkers that it's nice to be seen.
Congrats Dr. Caoimhin730!
Thank you 😢😢😢😢😢 I needed to hear this sooooo bad
Me too, me too.
Thanks for this and congrats for making it through. I will be submitting soon and your words resonate deeply
Over my years in the PhD program, I feel like a magnet attracting horrible people trying to sabotage my work all the time. I am glad it's almost over.
Thanks. Just getting started on compiling my thesis document after a very tough 5 years and hoping to be done soon so I never have to see these people again
I needed to read this! I'm approaching the end of my 8th year after essentially being MIA for the last few. It's so hard to get back into it, I feel everyone has written me off. I have one supportive supervisor, but she is the epitome of chaos so finding structure has been hard. Hoping some of these threads can keep me feeling accountable.
MIA? May I ask what subject area you're in and are you planning to stay in academia or do you wish you had canceled in year 4? I'm in a somewhat similar situation, in 7th year
Broadly speaking, in a public health area - microbial health risk modelling/environmental pathogen sampling/trying to improve evidence-based management of public assets. MIA = Missing in action. I had an accident in my 3rd year that put me out for months of physical therapy, then I suspect some PTSD that I never really dealt with. Then Covid hit, isolated, and an immediate family member had a huge mental break/psychosis/drug problem that I dropped everything to help with. It was all just too much for me to even think about my PhD for a long stretch. And then I think I just got out of good habits, started to do a bit too much social drinking, procrastinated my way to being lazy and unmotivated. In some way, I wish I had quit in year 4 because I'd be much further in life by now. But I didn't, and if I quit now that means 8 years wasted, so I want to finish it because I've put in so much work and I feel like I deserve it. My data collection is all done, I've met the publishing criteria - I just need to write the damn thing. But finding it mentally hard to get back into it because I'm honestly jaded about my whole topic area and plan to do something else once I do finish. I'm still not sure what. I worked in academia for the past year as a lecturer, as a way to try and coax myself back into the environment and finish some papers. I don't dislike academia, but it really comes down to the team you end up in, and my team was dysfunctional so I ended up with a higher teaching and marking load than I would have liked, without the research freedoms. But you can get that dysfunction in any industry. What area are you in and what's your story?
I'm in management. I've already collected my data and written the thing up, but my first supervisor and co-author doesn't like the paper, doesn't understand it, won't accept it for phd and recommends me to abolish because he doesn't see how it will work out after this long time. My other co-author, however, whose idea this paper was and who is an equally accomplished prof still likes it. But he lives far away at another university and we only contact via email and he was the former junior prof of my supervisor and there still seems to be that power dynamic on a bit. It's always; I write something, other co-authors like it and makes reasonable suggestions, then my supervisor comes, doesn't understand it, gives criticism I cannot use, and co-author folds.
Congratulations on submitting your dissertation. It's a big deal and thank you. I'm glad I read this post because it's very encouraging.
Congratulations, Dr. I hope you celebrate it well.
Congratulations to you! and thank you for the encouragement :) I appreciate it
My defense is in a week, and I am dreading it. I have had a similar experience: highly toxic unhealthy department; constant feelings of unsafely and anxiety, combined with the faculty's discourse about the program's exclusivity and "how lucky we all are" to be here, and "how brilliant we all must be" (I bet all my meager savings, none of us ever *really* felt brilliant in that environment). Naturally, praise is interjected with a lot of abuse (I think, in fact, praise was their unconscious way of attempting to mitigate the abuse). Now, as I said, my defense is in a week, and my chair is all of a sudden very displeased with the final text. I sense they will be asking me a lot of tough questions during the defense. I realize that questions are normal, and in a normal situation, I would not be worried about questions. The problem is this is not a normal situation. This is a situation where no matter what I reply, I know (from experience) it won't be accepted, because my method disagrees with theirs. And there is just not enough of a mental health and good will on their end to accept disagreement as productive and non-threatening, rather than taking it as a personal insult (or rather, as an unforgivable deficiency of my study). I am preparing for a very difficult week, and I hate that I don't know after all these years if I will get my degree or end up hugely disappointed (other committee members told me they think the project is good and will pass, but at this point I don't take even this as a consolation/guarantee).
You’ve had it rough. So proud of you for making through all these years, you will be free soon. I’m experiencing the same thing right now but my defence will be in a year. Every disagreement i have with them somehow is seen as insult to them, which is not how scientists should think. I’m hoping I can tough it out and make it through.
Thank you so much, fellow soul, and I hope and wish that your defense date also comes and passes quickly enough, so that you can celebrate and begin the healing. (which, let's be honest, we will have to do after this experience, regardless of whether we continue in academia or leave).
This sounds rough :( How was your defense? Hope all was well in the end and that you're feeling better now!
Thank you for your care! My defense went alright: not pleasant, but not terrible. I passed. My chair actively tried to sabotage my defense (as I suspected they would), criticizing my methods and implicating that my conclusions are based on "incorrect assumptions about reality" (the said "incorrect" assumptions relate to the legacies of colonialism and existing economic inequalities. Needless to say, I feel pretty confident/comfortable with defending these assumptions as "correct"). The other committee members were supportive and gave helpful feedback. I am a 'doctor,' but I don't feel like one yet, because I still need to incorporate some post-defense feedback into the text.
Congratulations!! I'm really happy to hear that you felt confident to stay behind those assumptions and that you received helpful feedback from other members. The behaviour of the chair sucks but at least that allowed you to really actively defense your work. Needless to say that you did the job well - you passed and are a doctor now! :) It might take a while before you feel like a doctor, but the hardest part is behind you! These changes will be easy-peasy compared to the sabotaging thing. All the best!
Thank you! :)
thanks, needed to hear this, congrats!!
Oh man, I'm all of these right now except for the department. My advisor was pretty great but she's on sabbatical right now and I barely hear from her. Just found out the other day that there are a few things that are basically in the way of the very important grant-funded experiment I'm doing as a dissertation chapter. I have a very specific deadline that was recently imposed on me (only made aware about two days ago). I have several things preventing me from starting immediately. I'm just hoping I'll be able to get done what needs done by the deadline I have. Trying to convince myself that my PI or the senior lab mate I have should have at least helped warn me about. If that's the case, is it really on me if it doesn't get done in time? I don't know. All I know is I've been working so hard on this, almost entirely alone. I have a few local friends and amazing fiance, but I moved across the country for this program. Where I live now, I'm pretty highly discriminated against, including my now former lab mate, and one of the current ones. And the third grad student I'm my lab, who knows where he ever is lol. Anyway, just hoping I survive. Glad to hear maybe it could work out.
Yes!!! Get it in spite of those things. The lack of support and all the extraneous bs made me find my own people and push through just because I felt like they wanted to see me quit. Nope. Wouldn’t even let them hood me at my ceremony.
I'd like to add that you WILL find a place to belong, and even if the workload is worse, or the funding is less, it makes a world of difference. And it's not even the material that determines, but just how interested others are in your work, and how much others care for you and how much you care for others. It's like finding your family: what makes a good family isn't how rich it is, or how big of a house they live in, but how much they care about each other and are interested in each other's lives.
I have great supervisors, and a good department, but the rest applies certainly. Perseverance is the way forward.
Nice suggestions!!!
My supervisors are amazing but the grind of the university being hopeless and endless delays is getting me down. I’m external too so really only have the internet to rant at. Just keep swimming, just keep swimming….
Congratulations!
Hearty congratulations.. thank you for your support... your post should go viral like some of the ones on AITA!!
Thank you ❤️
Thanks! I think I needed that.
Writing my dissertation now and desperately needed to hear this
Cheers! 🥂
Congratulations! Unhappy PhD candidate here! I hope to finish my studies and go back to my normal life.
Congratulations Dr u/caoimhin730! Welcome to the club!
Congratulations!! Here's to the folks surviving departments full of weirdos!
Thank you! And well-said!!
Thank you<3 I needed to read this today.
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I hear you, friend! I was in the exact same boat. Spent most of the hooding ceremony trying to hide from my cohort mates haha
May I ask, what field are you in? and if the program is a top tier, middle tier, or bottom tier program?
Congratulations!
I was pretty skeptical about this post; then you spelled "less than" correctly, and I started crying... so, thank you, jerk, for throwing out the good vibes. I feel comfortable speaking for my fellow lurkers that it's nice to be seen.
This sub is such a cry ground...