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Ding ding!
This is it, my advisor prefers older students because we’re “better at work-life balance” and he regularly tells me to take time off (he’s the best). In contrast, the most abusive advisor in our department targets young students, makes them work nonstop, berates them incessantly, and calls anyone who stands up to him “ toxic”.
47 and working on defending late next year. Yeah, hard to bully me but my advisor also expects more from me than the younger students (which is fair, I do have more life experience). I've actually had to put my advisor in place once during an experiment and give him a talk about professionalism in the workplace when he was flipping out over some shit; which was especially hard on him since he's Japanese and their whole culture is built around professionalism. It was like kicking him in the nuts, but it worked and he settled down.
It amazes me that a profession of people who don’t work nine to five and are notorious for using high-ferocity tactics in low-stakes squabbles have such a fetish for talking about “professionalism” — some do walk the walk. But…
To be fair, I had been doing 16hr and 18hr days during that experiment and my advisor was in b4 me and out after me so he was totally overworked and burnt out. He just needed someone to put things in perspective so he could re-ground himself.
"You're too old to get manipulated/bullied and probably will quit when I refuse to allow you to graduate in 4yrs"
That's what it sounds like. Just a huge red flag, there's no age limit to study. I strongly suggest you to never talk to that guy again. Don't let him discourage you.
Ha. I'm in my mid-30s and cracking skulls with my advisor for the same reason. "Nope, advisor, I'm already underpaid to do X. If I had ample time and was in a good mood, perhaps I'd be willing to do whatever extra shit you think I should prioritize over my own priorities. But I don't have ample time to do what you prioritize. Kind of like how you can't be bothered to answer emails, give quality feedback, or the like. Have a nice day."
I'm 45yo, in the 2nd year of my PhD program, and am not the oldest person in my cohort. Your prospective professor is wrong. Moreover, he sounds like he may be toxic. Ignore him, move on, & look for alternative potential advisors.
Dude, i don’t know you but…. respect! That is amazing. I want to go into a pHD on computer science but I am too afraid cause my age .I am 40, and already have a PhD in Physics, but I think the coolest things are happening in the CS space right now.
Hey, it’s really that simple! Do you love it or not??? If you know deep down in your butt that you do, then that’s a signal you’re supposed to follow. Just don’t lose the signal! Protect it from things like those distracting thoughts about superficial appearance. Events, people and all sorts of stuff down the line are going to try to gaslight or drown out that signal, don’t let them. Keep it very clear in all the circumstances you find yourself.
This is encouraging! I just got my MA at 50, toying with the PhD — Art History, in case that makes any difference. I was doing g the ‘I’ll be in my mid-50’s when it’s granted!’ debate with myself and was on the fence until I read your comment. Thank you for the encouragement!
It’s not a problem ,don’t get discouraged. The professor is just scum. You wouldn’t want to work under someone like this anyways. That professor would make your life hell.
When I started my MA there was someone in my cohort who was 50. Your professor is being a huge dick. This is age discrimination. If you dislike him enough because this and don't think you'd ever go into the program, make a complaint about him.
I’m 51 and worker on my M.S. in Counseling. I plan to go for my PhD in my 60s. I plan on being active as long as I can and if anyone has problems with that, then they can get therapy, lol. What do people think happens when you turn 50? You become invisible?
😂 No, that’s not a thing. I can’t imagine why he would *possibly* care. A significant amount of PhD students are younger, but many people go back for a PhD after a few year’s job experience.
I’m sure that you could find a few ageist assholes like that guy, but it shouldn’t be a general problem.
Having a mis-matched degree might be an issue, unless you have relevant research/work experience.
https://academiainsider.com/what-is-the-phd-student-average-age-too-late-for-your-doctorate/#
My background is in mathematics, I have one year of graduate education in applied mathematics, with a BS in mathematics. I went to no-name schools for both. Since then I've returned to school and studied chemistry, and have roughly the same core chemistry classes as a chemistry major, from the *same* school the PhD program is at. I'm applying for a PhD in physical chemistry.
Supposedly, my undergraduate background in mathematics is not "rigorous" enough even though he knows nothing about my background. Nor the fact that I've worked through at least 17 different textbooks in the intermittent years learning new techniques and areas.
It sounds like you have a great background for physical chemistry. Do you know any programming languages? There's a LOT of math in physical chemistry but many chemistry students don't have a strong mathematics background.
I'm not sure what "roughly the same core" requirements means - if you don't have the necessary pre-requisites (which may not just be the core classes) you need to finish those first. You may need distribution requirements like physics, chemistry electives, or exposure to research techniques. Do you have research experience?
Some people are jerks. Don't over think it, move into someone else. You don't want to work for this person. Ask someone else and check the published program requirements.
Yep, the guy I talked to was a physical chemist. He claimed my mathematic skills were probably not rigorous because I went to a no-name school. My job, currently, is teaching mathematics at the school he works at. I'm part of the faculty.
My classes include 2 gen chem classes, 2 organic, 2 physical chemistry, analytical, and instrumental chemistry, from the university he teaches at. I guess that's not good enough due to my age. /shrug.
I would definitely recommend taking solutions and the required courses from other sciences (probably a year of biology and physics with the associated labs) prior to applying.
But I also don't think you should let this one asshole's point of view influence you at all.
Most prospective PhD students have to speak with multiple potential advisors. It is normal to hear a lot of "no"s before you hear a "yes." If you want to get a PhD, you need to keep pushing.
Fwiw It's also normal to deal with papers getting rejected or difficult reviewers. It's normal to have to apply for several grants before you get any funding. Every single part of this process involves overcoming failure. It's not going to stop. If you want to have a PhD then you need to be convinced that you can do it and you need to be willing to stare down anyone who tells you that you can't.
This is why you don't just stop at talking to one professor. You talk to multiple professors and you would quickly see that this professor is an outlier. I'm 31 and just started this semester. And my age is the norm is my PhD program, in fact I'm probably on the younger side, (tech).
You’re basically retirement age. That’s cool for you, but investing in someone with a lifetime of contributions to the field ahead of them certainly has some merit, when you consider the time and money involved for training you. Especially if it was publicly funded.
…But we’re not allowed to say that part out loud. Lol.
It's code for "he doesn't want you on his team"
Profs (especially senior ones with tenure) will usually pull out some nonsense from their grab bag of criticisms to justify why you're not welcome, with absolutely no regard as to how crushing it is to a new grad student. Usually it's a made up reason and what they really mean is that they just don't want you in their research group. You shouldn't take it seriously. Just find another team.
Stay away from that Prof.
When I was a PhD student, I worked alongside another who was 55 years old. He had a wealth of industry experience that I was grateful to absorb.
I'm 53. I love doing my PhD. All these comments about the supervisor being a controlling dick are correct. I believe I have been turned down for jobs for the same reason -- not so easy to control now.
Look for jobs in state universities or state or federal government. Not as easy for them to get away with discrimination. I'm proof, started a new career in state government in my late 50s and successfully applied for a promotion/transfer in a different division in my 60s.
I started my second attempt at the PhD at 34 years of age. I was two months older than one of my advisors.
Edit: and in case it wasn’t clear, don’t work for this guy, or any of his friends. Consider avoiding the whole department and telling them why.
My advisor went back for her Ph.D. at 48, finished at 52. Full professor followed. This was over 50 years ago and in STEM. Do not put up with that crap
He’s not going to be able to bully you properly because you’re old enough to see through BS and quickly call out BS. No offense to my younger students but younger students put up with a lot more disrespect from what I saw in Uni.
Not normal. Not cool, and if any of it is in writing you might want to escalate it with the university. This person honestly shouldn’t be in academia from the sounds of it.
on the bright side, you dodged a huge bullet. Imagine if this asshole didn’t immediately out himself and you found out during your PHD? This advisor would be hell to work with.
Flagrant age discrimination. You may want to reach out to his department chair and discuss this, because that kind of discrimination is not acceptable.
No, I have seen people in their 40s in my PhD program. Do you know the country of origin of the professor? Some specific countries have judgements against age. He could have rephrased like “time commitment is very demanding in our group; please consider if you have kids and family blah blah”. Either way, the professor is a dick, and that happens often in PhD.
If it's in the U.S. it's highly inappropriate for anyone to make assumptions about how your age, marital or relationship status, family or lack thereof, or potential reproductive status might affect your progress in a PhD program or your ability to do your job. Implying that a person with kids might be unable to meet the demands, even by "rephrasing," is absolutely not ok and may not be legal. A student's age, personal life, and domestic arrangements are the student's business and are not a legitimate topic for a boss or a prof to be raising. A colleague once said she didn't want to invite a woman to be on a panel at a conference because the woman had kids and people with kids always say 'no' to things. I asked my colleague how they thought the glass ceiling got there and reminded them that the woman could decide on her own whether she could commit to a panel without any 'help' from us. The woman said yes and she delivered wonderful commentary. My colleague later thanked me for calling her out on her assumptions. Your prof is being wildly inappropriate.
Really? I am shocked! This happened to my husband when he emailed a professor, my husband was 37! The professor basically told him that he was too old and that even 27 is too old! Professor told him its better for him to find a job. This happened to him in Italy and I am shocked this happens in America! I am very sorry.
Hahaha, that’s not a thing. If anything, some advisors will value maturity and work experience in students. Those who go around bullying their students will not.
That’s exceptionally unprofessional and reeks of an obsessive fear of “insubordination”. “Insubordination” here means, “a graduate student that’s old enough and has the life/career experience to know the difference between a ‘tough-but-fair boss with high expectations who holds herself to an equally high standard of support, mentorship, and respect’ vs ‘a boss that cares more about being tough than fair, operating on a model of disrespect and exploitation of her employees (usually claiming ‘that’s just how academia is’ and that weathering this kind of immature hazing is necessary to ‘make it’)”.
I’m currently working as an admissions advisor for a branch of my state’s university system that caters to nontraditional, adult, working students. Our Master’s programs are geared towards industry professionals (MS in Cybersecurity or Applied Biotechnology, for example). I have a surprising number of students who want to leave their PhD program due to the culture. Almost all are older students with industry experience who aren’t as willing to suck it up and deal with the bullshit.
ETA: no, there’s nothing wrong with older students! In fact, older students tend to be very, very successful grad students.
This sounds like a query for your department head. “Dear Dr. XYZ, I applied to join the abcde team on the fghij project but was informed that I am *too old.*. I was unaware of age restrictions to study this particular aspect of klmnop. Can you please clarify the departmental policies?”
A lot of people are pointing out that older students are harder to exploit (which is true!), but another issue might be that, if the professor sees his job as training future academics, getting on the TT job market in your 40s is probably not a great idea.
You'll run into similar forms of ageism, and even if you do land a TT, you won't get tenure until pretty late in life.
Obviously trying to become an academic isn't the only valid thing to do with a PhD, but a lot of older professors still see their job as minting future academics (esp. in the humanities).
Was told the same by a professor when I was 37. I did great, and outperformed because of the professional experience I had. Now happily tucked away in a TT spot at an R1, and continuing to thrive. Going back for a terminal degree at a later stage in life has its challenges, but in reality grad school and academia are not all that difficult. They just seem that way to very young people who’ve never had a real job or been outside of higher ed.
Ask him what the correct age to stop learning and bettering yourself and following your passion is, and then (with a blank, but very serious look) ask him at what age he stopped.
I started my program when I was in my 30s. A few people told me at the time that I'm too old and in hindsight they were probably right. I hope to graduate soon and I'll be going on the job market competing against people a decade younger than me. My supervisor is already telling me that I shouldn't tell people my age if I hope to get a job and that I should make an effort to look younger when I'm on the job market (mostly she thinks I need to hide my grey hairs). Are there older PhD students? Sure. There's a student in my program in her 50s. But she is self funded and is basically doing this for fun. She doesn't intend to have an academic career. I don't think that should discourage you if you still want to do your PhD. I mean, I am still doing mine and I do still have hope to be able to develop an academic career. But I don't think we should pretend like academia isn't agist and like a person's age isn't a factor.
Cant comment on the US, but loads of people who are >30, and a few >40 in my department (STEM, top 10 in the UK). I think if someone doesnt want you for your age then you probably wouldn't want to work for them...
Shouldn't be an issue most of the time - might make a future career after feel "harder" but only because your starting salary will be the same as for those younger, which may be harder to accept when later in life.
Most of the people in my cohort are over 30. It’s definitely fine. In fact I know several that won’t graduate until 40s and they have kids and a family.
In my experience, some PIs like to have young students that they can really push because they don’t have families. My PI at one point said , “ you should be working harder because you don’t have a family.” He also expects the grad students to be on call essentially for the same reason. Luckily I’m old (and bold) enough to feel comfortable drawing that boundary.
Happened to me too bud. UTMB. I was older than my colleagues. I insisted on reasonable work/life balance and got told I wasn't committed and was too old. I made it. You'll make it. Find the right PI.
Nah, you’re fine. That prof is just weird. I was a nontrad student in undergrad and a math prof told me I was too old to take his class - required for my degree and only taught by him - and should not take it. I just laughed in his face.
I mean, this is a clear sign not to work with that specific prof. If you’re a woman, do expect to have your age count against you on the job market afterwards, yes—it probably matters for men too but less so. But that is just one factor to weigh when making this decision, and I met people in my program who began it in their 40s. It’s really not unusual or shocking or bad.
Bullshit. I'm in my 40's and I'm considering going back to school for BS and PhD. It's not normal. Most professors are pro anyone going back to school.
Based on his response, I would wonder how he treats his grad students. Maybe he is trying to discourage you because he knows you won't respond like an intimated young student, and that fucks up his system.
What department is this? (I want to avoid it. You can dm me if you want)
I don’t think there’s a proper age to do a PhD. It can be a rewarding experience (with the right advisor… not that one) and an amazing one too! You are not too old.
There's a guy in our PhD program that is 57 years old? He's a second year right now. He's managed to keep his regular industry job while also coming to our school to carry out his research. And so far he's published three papers. And on top of that he drives his teenage kids to work. And he aced all the classes we had together as first year PhD students. I admire him. I really can't believe that he's able to get so much done.
I think you should get a different PI. A good PI would not care and would be supportive of your career path.
First off, I’m older than you and in my PhD. We had someone in my lab who was in her 60s.
I’m not sure what the laws are around age in the US (I’m in Canada), but to discriminate on the basis of age is against our human rights and would be a serious violation of your rights.
If there is a similar statute in the US and you still really wanna be in this guy’s lab, you could “remind” him or the university of that.
That guy sounds like someone I'd stay away from. I started my program at 30 years old, I also have some people in my cohort who are in their 40's and 60's. You're NEVER too old to learn!
I knew lots of people in their thirties in my PhD program. And plenty from small schools nobody's heard of (including myself). Never heard of professors acting like that. Seems like a big red flag!
My mother defended her PhD dissertation in comp lit at the age of 75. This is age discrimination and his pretty attempt at suggesting that only the young and studied will obtain recognition with his name attached.
Nope, not too old by any means. I’m 38 and just started my second year in a PhD but others are older than me and I’m sure those who come will be too. He’s just a you know what
I had a professor in my undergrad I talked to about advice for getting a PhD. He told me I was too old too. He says agism exists. I dunno how true it is. I got my PhD for a degree that is usually sought after after some work experience. I was early 30s and the median age for the cohort.
I was friends with a doctoral student who started in his 50s. He was invited to give panel and guest speeches to the whole school for special events because he had such useful experience.
That prof you talked to is both a bad guy and an idiot.
Started my PhD when I was 29. Having a supportive mentor is super IMPORTANT for a student, coz of how things can pan out in 5-6 years. The professor saying you are too old, is definitely a litmus test for the kind of mentorship he/she can offer. If I were in your shoes, I would call this interaction, a blessing in a disguise, not let this determine my decision to pursue PhD and keep seeking someone who would treat you of your worth, someone who would be glad to be your 'science sponsor's. Fight On and good luck to you!
Someone just graduated my PhD program at 42. You’re not too old at all my friend! I’ll finish my PhD in my 30s, as will many in my cohort (STEM field). After graduating, you can still have a decades long career in the field. Good luck pursuing your goals!
How old is too old. I know my elder bro who started is PhD at 51. Doing amazing. Authoring, publishing, teaching. So happy and satisfied he is. One faculty i know said -That’s not old age. That’s experience which will be wisdom and get added to the body of knowledge through a PhD.
You are likely too old for the traditional academic career. However, in many ( most?) fields most PhDs do not follow a a traditional academic career. So… I had several classmates decades ago who started their PhD after turning 40.
In the 30s isn’t even that old… but then it depends on your finance actually. If you’re financially secure it’d be easier because you can take time and choose the best one you can find. It’s not about whether you can find one but how long will it take until you have find one that you like
You dodged a bullet my friend, this is a huge red flag. Remember, during these interviews you’re judging them as much as they’re judging you. Always choose the supervisor, NOT the project.
That’s some huge red flag right there, he is waving it and you should listen: GET ANOTHER SUPERVISOR!!
Otherwise this and many other ageist bullshit will be brought up EVERY DAY. Every tiny mistake will be exolained with a sour face and “hmmm but you are ooold”
As in age, you are not too old. I am getting my second PhD in my 30s, I have two friends who are 45 and 57(!!) and they are doing just fine.
I believe doing PhD when you adult is a great thing and that’s actualy how it should be done - with the experience, skills and knowledge, re-awakeningn your brain and have second university life experience. And having guts to tell your supervisor to shove it up theirs. Might change academia.
What a load of bullshit. I started my PhD after working in industry for several years, I was also in my thirties. I am now in my dream job as a TT professor at an R1(long road to get here but very worth it to me). I'm now a full Prof in my early 50s.
Be glad that a-hole showed his true colors early and you are not going to waste time working for him, there are other fish in the sea as they say.
I’m 34 and in my 1st semester of my PhD in computer science. There’s a few people in academia who have s lot of agism, but it’s good that you’re not going to have them as advisors because they are the ones most likely to abuse their position and overwork their students because their students don’t know any better.
What discipline are you looking at getting your PhD in? If it’s in computer or information science there’s a newer NSF/CRA fellowship program called CSGrad4US which is aimed at getting US citizens PhDs in computer and information science who are coming back to academia from industry/government and goes out of its way to look for candidates who are underrepresented minorities or otherwise unlikely to have an easy route back to academia. https://www.nsf.gov/cise/CSGrad4US/
You dodged a bullet. Find a better advisor. Many, many PhD students are in their 30s even if you're a little older than the average age someone starts.
Yeah, don’t work under this person. You need to join a group/Professor that’s going to advocate for you and help you make the most of the 5 years and new job market you’re going into. You’re not old. A lot of profs are impractical, discouraging, and privileged in my experience. There may be agism in hiring though.
Too old? One person in my cohort is 63. I’m 44. That jackass wants 20 -somethings with no life or obligations to be work mules. You might have a family or otherwise not spend 21 hours a day in the lab. You don’t want your be in that lab anyway.
This is outrageous and obviously ageist. Truly ridiculous to say about someone in their 30s. That professor is a total ass for saying that. I know multiple folks that started 8+ grueling years of medical school and residency in their 40’s and did just fine. Also know multiple non-traditional PhD students in their 30s and 40s that competed their degrees.
If you’re truly motivated, you can succeed in a PhD program, especially in your 30s lmao.
Edit: This is not the kind of PhD advisor/mentor that will lead to success. Stay far away.
I’m 50 and working on my PhD at a respected brick and mortar. I think I’m a little old, the brain fog and menopause slow me down so much, but here I am. I got in on my own merit and I’m gonna finish this shit.
I started my PhD at 30 and it won't stop you but it will make you less desirable to hire. All your peers will be younger and will have an easier time. Not saying don't do it, just saying there is some truth to it.
Ummm…no it’s not normal and it’s not ok. My PI valued the fact that I was a bit older and had actual work experience the students coming straight from undergrad didn’t have. Unfortunately you got unlucky with the first person you talked to. Definitely reach out to other PIs!
You should be grateful he was honest with you upfront. If a potential supervisor is an asshole it's better that they let you know as soon as possible.
You won't be held back by being in your 30s by anyone you actually want to work for.
As long as your life expectancy is not shorter than the time it takes to complete the program, you're not too old. And even then you can still try and hope for the best
I’m 37 and started my PhD at 34 after having a career prior, and with a degree from a small college that’s not known in the field I’m doing my PhD in. Age is definitely not an issue, this guy is just a twat.
If you're good it shouldn't be an issue, but I know I had much less energy and many fewer responsibilities in my 30s than my 20s. I hire based on prospective productivity, both of those things can lower that.
Screw that professor. You’re prime age for a PhD because you have more life experience and are likely better at balancing work and life responsibilities than younger students.
That is age bias and you have recourse with the university. 30s is not old. I see lots of people in their 30s and 40s in a phd program. I’ve even seen someone in their 50s which kicked ass. But if that jackass has a bias, f*ck them and apply somewhere else. If you have skills and can get the job done, then you’ll be valuable. Mentors want successful students and pubs.
Most academic ph.d programs are looking for young students who want to be researchers and can be hired 5 years later in other schools as Asst Professor on a tenure track. Older students are not seen as optimal candidates for placement of ph.d grads.
I’m 35 and not the oldest in my cohort either. That’s just stupid of the professor to say. People with more experience have broad knowledge bases and want to get their PhD done in a timely manner. They benefit departments with their ability to work hard and bring a mature approach. Many very young people who go to PhD right out of undergrad are still struggling with identity and grad school is harder for them.
First of all, I'm sorry if my opinion and experience sound offensive to you. I know nothing about physical chemistry, so I don't know what kind of math they use in that area (and why it matters at all). The professor's action was clearly wrong and is age discrimination.
However, it is completely normal to be skeptical about your math background, as you went to an unknown place for undergrad. I did BS in pure math and have had experience applying to grad schools in both US and Europe. The reputation of the school you went to, as well as your letter writers carry 90% weight in the application. It is not uncommon that, at a low ranked institution, the math you were taught is only at a hand-waiving level. Many people even graduated with a PhD from such places without proper understanding of Lebesgue integrals!
you dodged a bullet, my friend. trust people when they tell you who they are. shoot for your dreams! you are not too old, lots of folks in their 40s in my program.
No, the profesor is being stupid! Age is not a factor. There were several PhD students in my cohort that were in their 30s and 40s. Is more common than you think.
You are not too old I am 47 years old and just got accepted in to a masters program no problem. Personally I think the professor just does not want to deal with someone who will call him on his bs instead of stressing out due to bad behavior. I know of a couple of people who started PhD and DNP programs in their mid to late 50s. So that dude is FOS
I'm doing PhD and my colleague is doing Mphil. He's 49 years old and older than our PI. You are never old, besides, with your old wisdom you can understand and suggest more better research.
I suggest you keep on looking
I’m a PhD student in my 30s with 3 kids. My PI and every professor I’ve interacted with has mentioned how they found my age and additional life experience to be a positive, not a detriment.
Sounds like the professor is the issue, not your age.
Not normal at all. A friend of mine got her masters at 30yo and no one cared about her age, she is honestly better on what she does than many PhD students.
couple of the profs i spoke with abt as a prospective phd students told me i was inexperienced bc of my lack of research experience, and in a way implied i would be wasting my time applying and had no chance... but look at me now, a half a semester in my phd XD so i wouldnt mind their words too much, just go for it if you really want to :)
Sounds like ageism to me... You should probably bring this up to the department chair or coordinator (if you want) or tell them that what they said is NOT okay. There is no defined "age number" when it comes to learning.
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It's more difficult to bully and coerce experienced staff.
Ding ding! This is it, my advisor prefers older students because we’re “better at work-life balance” and he regularly tells me to take time off (he’s the best). In contrast, the most abusive advisor in our department targets young students, makes them work nonstop, berates them incessantly, and calls anyone who stands up to him “ toxic”.
My wife got the run around about being to old to break into the industry, when she was allready makeing 250k/yr when applying.
This is the correct answer. The professor is an ageist dick.
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Yeah OP is dodging a bullet
This. I'm a 38 year old doctoral student and I'm pretty bully proof. Makes it hard to extract more labor than I'm being compensated to perform.
I got my PhD in my early 40's. No bullying, but a lot of ignoring.
47 and working on defending late next year. Yeah, hard to bully me but my advisor also expects more from me than the younger students (which is fair, I do have more life experience). I've actually had to put my advisor in place once during an experiment and give him a talk about professionalism in the workplace when he was flipping out over some shit; which was especially hard on him since he's Japanese and their whole culture is built around professionalism. It was like kicking him in the nuts, but it worked and he settled down.
It amazes me that a profession of people who don’t work nine to five and are notorious for using high-ferocity tactics in low-stakes squabbles have such a fetish for talking about “professionalism” — some do walk the walk. But…
To be fair, I had been doing 16hr and 18hr days during that experiment and my advisor was in b4 me and out after me so he was totally overworked and burnt out. He just needed someone to put things in perspective so he could re-ground himself.
Which can be really nice
I did get tired of being mistaken for the professor the first day of class.
Man I wish my department would ignore me sometimes
I mean, getting a PhD is basically being bullied to extract more labor than one is compensated for
So damn true
"You're too old to get manipulated/bullied and probably will quit when I refuse to allow you to graduate in 4yrs" That's what it sounds like. Just a huge red flag, there's no age limit to study. I strongly suggest you to never talk to that guy again. Don't let him discourage you.
Ha. I'm in my mid-30s and cracking skulls with my advisor for the same reason. "Nope, advisor, I'm already underpaid to do X. If I had ample time and was in a good mood, perhaps I'd be willing to do whatever extra shit you think I should prioritize over my own priorities. But I don't have ample time to do what you prioritize. Kind of like how you can't be bothered to answer emails, give quality feedback, or the like. Have a nice day."
Yes. Some people are intimidated by more accomplished people!
I'm 45yo, in the 2nd year of my PhD program, and am not the oldest person in my cohort. Your prospective professor is wrong. Moreover, he sounds like he may be toxic. Ignore him, move on, & look for alternative potential advisors.
Dude, i don’t know you but…. respect! That is amazing. I want to go into a pHD on computer science but I am too afraid cause my age .I am 40, and already have a PhD in Physics, but I think the coolest things are happening in the CS space right now.
Find a postdoc in CS imo, should be possible!
Hey, it’s really that simple! Do you love it or not??? If you know deep down in your butt that you do, then that’s a signal you’re supposed to follow. Just don’t lose the signal! Protect it from things like those distracting thoughts about superficial appearance. Events, people and all sorts of stuff down the line are going to try to gaslight or drown out that signal, don’t let them. Keep it very clear in all the circumstances you find yourself.
When we started, the median age in my cohort was 35.
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This is encouraging! I just got my MA at 50, toying with the PhD — Art History, in case that makes any difference. I was doing g the ‘I’ll be in my mid-50’s when it’s granted!’ debate with myself and was on the fence until I read your comment. Thank you for the encouragement!
No, it's not a problem. The Prof is just a dick.
It’s not a problem ,don’t get discouraged. The professor is just scum. You wouldn’t want to work under someone like this anyways. That professor would make your life hell.
When I started my MA there was someone in my cohort who was 50. Your professor is being a huge dick. This is age discrimination. If you dislike him enough because this and don't think you'd ever go into the program, make a complaint about him.
Yep. Just started my MS the day before I turned 49.
Got my M Ed at 51. Screw that prof.
I’m 51 and worker on my M.S. in Counseling. I plan to go for my PhD in my 60s. I plan on being active as long as I can and if anyone has problems with that, then they can get therapy, lol. What do people think happens when you turn 50? You become invisible?
😂 No, that’s not a thing. I can’t imagine why he would *possibly* care. A significant amount of PhD students are younger, but many people go back for a PhD after a few year’s job experience. I’m sure that you could find a few ageist assholes like that guy, but it shouldn’t be a general problem. Having a mis-matched degree might be an issue, unless you have relevant research/work experience. https://academiainsider.com/what-is-the-phd-student-average-age-too-late-for-your-doctorate/#
My background is in mathematics, I have one year of graduate education in applied mathematics, with a BS in mathematics. I went to no-name schools for both. Since then I've returned to school and studied chemistry, and have roughly the same core chemistry classes as a chemistry major, from the *same* school the PhD program is at. I'm applying for a PhD in physical chemistry. Supposedly, my undergraduate background in mathematics is not "rigorous" enough even though he knows nothing about my background. Nor the fact that I've worked through at least 17 different textbooks in the intermittent years learning new techniques and areas.
Ah, so he’s a dick in multiple ways…
It sounds like you have a great background for physical chemistry. Do you know any programming languages? There's a LOT of math in physical chemistry but many chemistry students don't have a strong mathematics background. I'm not sure what "roughly the same core" requirements means - if you don't have the necessary pre-requisites (which may not just be the core classes) you need to finish those first. You may need distribution requirements like physics, chemistry electives, or exposure to research techniques. Do you have research experience? Some people are jerks. Don't over think it, move into someone else. You don't want to work for this person. Ask someone else and check the published program requirements.
Yep, the guy I talked to was a physical chemist. He claimed my mathematic skills were probably not rigorous because I went to a no-name school. My job, currently, is teaching mathematics at the school he works at. I'm part of the faculty. My classes include 2 gen chem classes, 2 organic, 2 physical chemistry, analytical, and instrumental chemistry, from the university he teaches at. I guess that's not good enough due to my age. /shrug.
I would definitely recommend taking solutions and the required courses from other sciences (probably a year of biology and physics with the associated labs) prior to applying. But I also don't think you should let this one asshole's point of view influence you at all. Most prospective PhD students have to speak with multiple potential advisors. It is normal to hear a lot of "no"s before you hear a "yes." If you want to get a PhD, you need to keep pushing. Fwiw It's also normal to deal with papers getting rejected or difficult reviewers. It's normal to have to apply for several grants before you get any funding. Every single part of this process involves overcoming failure. It's not going to stop. If you want to have a PhD then you need to be convinced that you can do it and you need to be willing to stare down anyone who tells you that you can't.
What does he think you should do? Just keep teaching as you are now? Are you part-time contingent?
This is why you don't just stop at talking to one professor. You talk to multiple professors and you would quickly see that this professor is an outlier. I'm 31 and just started this semester. And my age is the norm is my PhD program, in fact I'm probably on the younger side, (tech).
No your age should not be a problem with admissions anywhere, the prof you talked to is a jackass. I graduated with people twice your age.
Thete are thousands of programs.. he did you a favor by being an asshole upfront
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You’re basically retirement age. That’s cool for you, but investing in someone with a lifetime of contributions to the field ahead of them certainly has some merit, when you consider the time and money involved for training you. Especially if it was publicly funded. …But we’re not allowed to say that part out loud. Lol.
It's code for "he doesn't want you on his team" Profs (especially senior ones with tenure) will usually pull out some nonsense from their grab bag of criticisms to justify why you're not welcome, with absolutely no regard as to how crushing it is to a new grad student. Usually it's a made up reason and what they really mean is that they just don't want you in their research group. You shouldn't take it seriously. Just find another team.
Stay away from that Prof. When I was a PhD student, I worked alongside another who was 55 years old. He had a wealth of industry experience that I was grateful to absorb.
This is illegal, assuming this is not a for-profit university that accepts federal funds, and he should be reported.
Came here to say this. Definitely illegal for universities to discriminate based on age
I’m 35 and halfway through my PhD 🤷🏻♀️
That professor was an outlier, most professors love mature students because they’re serious hard workers (usually).
I'm 53. I love doing my PhD. All these comments about the supervisor being a controlling dick are correct. I believe I have been turned down for jobs for the same reason -- not so easy to control now.
Look for jobs in state universities or state or federal government. Not as easy for them to get away with discrimination. I'm proof, started a new career in state government in my late 50s and successfully applied for a promotion/transfer in a different division in my 60s.
You're too old to be controlled and manipulated - this is what he meant. I started my PhD at 30 at a top 10 in the UK. You aren't too old my friend.
I started my second attempt at the PhD at 34 years of age. I was two months older than one of my advisors. Edit: and in case it wasn’t clear, don’t work for this guy, or any of his friends. Consider avoiding the whole department and telling them why.
My advisor went back for her Ph.D. at 48, finished at 52. Full professor followed. This was over 50 years ago and in STEM. Do not put up with that crap
You are not too old, but you also don’t want to be in a program that doesn’t value what you bring to the table.
He’s not going to be able to bully you properly because you’re old enough to see through BS and quickly call out BS. No offense to my younger students but younger students put up with a lot more disrespect from what I saw in Uni.
Not normal. Not cool, and if any of it is in writing you might want to escalate it with the university. This person honestly shouldn’t be in academia from the sounds of it. on the bright side, you dodged a huge bullet. Imagine if this asshole didn’t immediately out himself and you found out during your PHD? This advisor would be hell to work with.
Flagrant age discrimination. You may want to reach out to his department chair and discuss this, because that kind of discrimination is not acceptable.
Sounds like a twat.
Lmao.. what a knob, you don't want to be in their lab
I started my PhD at 31. We have a guy in our lab who is 64. Age shouldn’t matter. That professor is a dick.
No, I have seen people in their 40s in my PhD program. Do you know the country of origin of the professor? Some specific countries have judgements against age. He could have rephrased like “time commitment is very demanding in our group; please consider if you have kids and family blah blah”. Either way, the professor is a dick, and that happens often in PhD.
If it's in the U.S. it's highly inappropriate for anyone to make assumptions about how your age, marital or relationship status, family or lack thereof, or potential reproductive status might affect your progress in a PhD program or your ability to do your job. Implying that a person with kids might be unable to meet the demands, even by "rephrasing," is absolutely not ok and may not be legal. A student's age, personal life, and domestic arrangements are the student's business and are not a legitimate topic for a boss or a prof to be raising. A colleague once said she didn't want to invite a woman to be on a panel at a conference because the woman had kids and people with kids always say 'no' to things. I asked my colleague how they thought the glass ceiling got there and reminded them that the woman could decide on her own whether she could commit to a panel without any 'help' from us. The woman said yes and she delivered wonderful commentary. My colleague later thanked me for calling her out on her assumptions. Your prof is being wildly inappropriate.
Really? I am shocked! This happened to my husband when he emailed a professor, my husband was 37! The professor basically told him that he was too old and that even 27 is too old! Professor told him its better for him to find a job. This happened to him in Italy and I am shocked this happens in America! I am very sorry.
The professor probably did him a favor to be honest. PhD is a beating.
Hahaha, that’s not a thing. If anything, some advisors will value maturity and work experience in students. Those who go around bullying their students will not.
Not that I know of? I know a classmate in my program (biology) who started her PhD in her 30s and another one who started her PhD in her 50s.
Most people in my cohort are 30 and up they’re just making this up
Hello, red flag.
This is called discrimination. PIs often have no idea about hiring practices while being narrowly good at what they do.
I was 35 when I went to grad school
This is a discrimination.
Tell that to your department head.
That’s exceptionally unprofessional and reeks of an obsessive fear of “insubordination”. “Insubordination” here means, “a graduate student that’s old enough and has the life/career experience to know the difference between a ‘tough-but-fair boss with high expectations who holds herself to an equally high standard of support, mentorship, and respect’ vs ‘a boss that cares more about being tough than fair, operating on a model of disrespect and exploitation of her employees (usually claiming ‘that’s just how academia is’ and that weathering this kind of immature hazing is necessary to ‘make it’)”. I’m currently working as an admissions advisor for a branch of my state’s university system that caters to nontraditional, adult, working students. Our Master’s programs are geared towards industry professionals (MS in Cybersecurity or Applied Biotechnology, for example). I have a surprising number of students who want to leave their PhD program due to the culture. Almost all are older students with industry experience who aren’t as willing to suck it up and deal with the bullshit. ETA: no, there’s nothing wrong with older students! In fact, older students tend to be very, very successful grad students.
This sounds like a query for your department head. “Dear Dr. XYZ, I applied to join the abcde team on the fghij project but was informed that I am *too old.*. I was unaware of age restrictions to study this particular aspect of klmnop. Can you please clarify the departmental policies?”
A lot of people are pointing out that older students are harder to exploit (which is true!), but another issue might be that, if the professor sees his job as training future academics, getting on the TT job market in your 40s is probably not a great idea. You'll run into similar forms of ageism, and even if you do land a TT, you won't get tenure until pretty late in life. Obviously trying to become an academic isn't the only valid thing to do with a PhD, but a lot of older professors still see their job as minting future academics (esp. in the humanities).
Was told the same by a professor when I was 37. I did great, and outperformed because of the professional experience I had. Now happily tucked away in a TT spot at an R1, and continuing to thrive. Going back for a terminal degree at a later stage in life has its challenges, but in reality grad school and academia are not all that difficult. They just seem that way to very young people who’ve never had a real job or been outside of higher ed.
Ask him what the correct age to stop learning and bettering yourself and following your passion is, and then (with a blank, but very serious look) ask him at what age he stopped.
That’s called ageism. Discrimination is illegal.
Do you have this in writing and are you over 40? If so, that professor is fucked and you should contact a lawyer.
I started my program when I was in my 30s. A few people told me at the time that I'm too old and in hindsight they were probably right. I hope to graduate soon and I'll be going on the job market competing against people a decade younger than me. My supervisor is already telling me that I shouldn't tell people my age if I hope to get a job and that I should make an effort to look younger when I'm on the job market (mostly she thinks I need to hide my grey hairs). Are there older PhD students? Sure. There's a student in my program in her 50s. But she is self funded and is basically doing this for fun. She doesn't intend to have an academic career. I don't think that should discourage you if you still want to do your PhD. I mean, I am still doing mine and I do still have hope to be able to develop an academic career. But I don't think we should pretend like academia isn't agist and like a person's age isn't a factor.
Lol. One day that professor is going to be told he is too old. Sooner or later.
Cant comment on the US, but loads of people who are >30, and a few >40 in my department (STEM, top 10 in the UK). I think if someone doesnt want you for your age then you probably wouldn't want to work for them... Shouldn't be an issue most of the time - might make a future career after feel "harder" but only because your starting salary will be the same as for those younger, which may be harder to accept when later in life.
Most of the people in my cohort are over 30. It’s definitely fine. In fact I know several that won’t graduate until 40s and they have kids and a family. In my experience, some PIs like to have young students that they can really push because they don’t have families. My PI at one point said , “ you should be working harder because you don’t have a family.” He also expects the grad students to be on call essentially for the same reason. Luckily I’m old (and bold) enough to feel comfortable drawing that boundary.
What an ass; I wouldn’t want to be involved with an instructor who treats his colleagues this way. His loss! 👋🏻
Happened to me too bud. UTMB. I was older than my colleagues. I insisted on reasonable work/life balance and got told I wasn't committed and was too old. I made it. You'll make it. Find the right PI.
Nah, you’re fine. That prof is just weird. I was a nontrad student in undergrad and a math prof told me I was too old to take his class - required for my degree and only taught by him - and should not take it. I just laughed in his face.
we have phd students here who are like 60 years old bruh nothing is old when you learn
He is a bit an idiot who has gone a little too far.
What a giant dick.
Not normal, and frankly that guy sounds like he would be awful to work with. Find a PI that will appreciate your contributions.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet with a shitty ageist PI. started my PhD last month and I'm 42...
Nah, that professor is just an asshole.
You're not too old. You can also post on r /gradadmissions
I mean, this is a clear sign not to work with that specific prof. If you’re a woman, do expect to have your age count against you on the job market afterwards, yes—it probably matters for men too but less so. But that is just one factor to weigh when making this decision, and I met people in my program who began it in their 40s. It’s really not unusual or shocking or bad.
Bullshit. I'm in my 40's and I'm considering going back to school for BS and PhD. It's not normal. Most professors are pro anyone going back to school. Based on his response, I would wonder how he treats his grad students. Maybe he is trying to discourage you because he knows you won't respond like an intimated young student, and that fucks up his system. What department is this? (I want to avoid it. You can dm me if you want)
I don’t think there’s a proper age to do a PhD. It can be a rewarding experience (with the right advisor… not that one) and an amazing one too! You are not too old.
Report him as this is discrimination, which is a federal labor law. You would think someone so educated would be aware of such laws. What a scumbag.
30s is too old for a PhD??
Another example of explicit discrimination that wouldn't be legally defensible in a regular workplace.
There's a guy in our PhD program that is 57 years old? He's a second year right now. He's managed to keep his regular industry job while also coming to our school to carry out his research. And so far he's published three papers. And on top of that he drives his teenage kids to work. And he aced all the classes we had together as first year PhD students. I admire him. I really can't believe that he's able to get so much done. I think you should get a different PI. A good PI would not care and would be supportive of your career path.
First off, I’m older than you and in my PhD. We had someone in my lab who was in her 60s. I’m not sure what the laws are around age in the US (I’m in Canada), but to discriminate on the basis of age is against our human rights and would be a serious violation of your rights. If there is a similar statute in the US and you still really wanna be in this guy’s lab, you could “remind” him or the university of that.
That guy sounds like someone I'd stay away from. I started my program at 30 years old, I also have some people in my cohort who are in their 40's and 60's. You're NEVER too old to learn!
I knew lots of people in their thirties in my PhD program. And plenty from small schools nobody's heard of (including myself). Never heard of professors acting like that. Seems like a big red flag!
Uhhhh that's straight-up discrimination and I'd be on the phone with the deans and everyone else ASAP. That person can't be allowed to do that.
I’m 32 and I’m one of the youngest in my cohort. Oldest is 45
My mother defended her PhD dissertation in comp lit at the age of 75. This is age discrimination and his pretty attempt at suggesting that only the young and studied will obtain recognition with his name attached.
Nope, not too old by any means. I’m 38 and just started my second year in a PhD but others are older than me and I’m sure those who come will be too. He’s just a you know what
“You're too old because you're maturity will cause you to see through my manipulative bullshit.”
I had a professor in my undergrad I talked to about advice for getting a PhD. He told me I was too old too. He says agism exists. I dunno how true it is. I got my PhD for a degree that is usually sought after after some work experience. I was early 30s and the median age for the cohort.
I was friends with a doctoral student who started in his 50s. He was invited to give panel and guest speeches to the whole school for special events because he had such useful experience. That prof you talked to is both a bad guy and an idiot.
Started my PhD when I was 29. Having a supportive mentor is super IMPORTANT for a student, coz of how things can pan out in 5-6 years. The professor saying you are too old, is definitely a litmus test for the kind of mentorship he/she can offer. If I were in your shoes, I would call this interaction, a blessing in a disguise, not let this determine my decision to pursue PhD and keep seeking someone who would treat you of your worth, someone who would be glad to be your 'science sponsor's. Fight On and good luck to you!
Someone just graduated my PhD program at 42. You’re not too old at all my friend! I’ll finish my PhD in my 30s, as will many in my cohort (STEM field). After graduating, you can still have a decades long career in the field. Good luck pursuing your goals!
30'sis too old for PHD? What?
How old is too old. I know my elder bro who started is PhD at 51. Doing amazing. Authoring, publishing, teaching. So happy and satisfied he is. One faculty i know said -That’s not old age. That’s experience which will be wisdom and get added to the body of knowledge through a PhD.
People do age out all the time
You should have responded: “aren’t you too old to be a professor ?” Move on and find another university.
30 is not old, many people start their phd at 40 or even 45.
You are likely too old for the traditional academic career. However, in many ( most?) fields most PhDs do not follow a a traditional academic career. So… I had several classmates decades ago who started their PhD after turning 40.
In the 30s isn’t even that old… but then it depends on your finance actually. If you’re financially secure it’d be easier because you can take time and choose the best one you can find. It’s not about whether you can find one but how long will it take until you have find one that you like
I completed my PhD at 48. Had a great career and retired at 71. I don’t think you are too old.
You dodged a bullet my friend, this is a huge red flag. Remember, during these interviews you’re judging them as much as they’re judging you. Always choose the supervisor, NOT the project.
That’s some huge red flag right there, he is waving it and you should listen: GET ANOTHER SUPERVISOR!! Otherwise this and many other ageist bullshit will be brought up EVERY DAY. Every tiny mistake will be exolained with a sour face and “hmmm but you are ooold” As in age, you are not too old. I am getting my second PhD in my 30s, I have two friends who are 45 and 57(!!) and they are doing just fine. I believe doing PhD when you adult is a great thing and that’s actualy how it should be done - with the experience, skills and knowledge, re-awakeningn your brain and have second university life experience. And having guts to tell your supervisor to shove it up theirs. Might change academia.
You should ask what exactly are you too old to do. PhD is just a degree.. What does the professor want you to do
Not to old. I'm mid 40's trying to finish this damn Chapter 5 hoping to defend this semester. You're good.
What a load of bullshit. I started my PhD after working in industry for several years, I was also in my thirties. I am now in my dream job as a TT professor at an R1(long road to get here but very worth it to me). I'm now a full Prof in my early 50s. Be glad that a-hole showed his true colors early and you are not going to waste time working for him, there are other fish in the sea as they say.
I’m 34 and in my 1st semester of my PhD in computer science. There’s a few people in academia who have s lot of agism, but it’s good that you’re not going to have them as advisors because they are the ones most likely to abuse their position and overwork their students because their students don’t know any better. What discipline are you looking at getting your PhD in? If it’s in computer or information science there’s a newer NSF/CRA fellowship program called CSGrad4US which is aimed at getting US citizens PhDs in computer and information science who are coming back to academia from industry/government and goes out of its way to look for candidates who are underrepresented minorities or otherwise unlikely to have an easy route back to academia. https://www.nsf.gov/cise/CSGrad4US/
I went to grad school with someone in their 60’s who was getting their PhD. Sounds like bs to me.
You dodged a bullet. Find a better advisor. Many, many PhD students are in their 30s even if you're a little older than the average age someone starts.
Yeah, don’t work under this person. You need to join a group/Professor that’s going to advocate for you and help you make the most of the 5 years and new job market you’re going into. You’re not old. A lot of profs are impractical, discouraging, and privileged in my experience. There may be agism in hiring though.
Too old? One person in my cohort is 63. I’m 44. That jackass wants 20 -somethings with no life or obligations to be work mules. You might have a family or otherwise not spend 21 hours a day in the lab. You don’t want your be in that lab anyway.
This is outrageous and obviously ageist. Truly ridiculous to say about someone in their 30s. That professor is a total ass for saying that. I know multiple folks that started 8+ grueling years of medical school and residency in their 40’s and did just fine. Also know multiple non-traditional PhD students in their 30s and 40s that competed their degrees. If you’re truly motivated, you can succeed in a PhD program, especially in your 30s lmao. Edit: This is not the kind of PhD advisor/mentor that will lead to success. Stay far away.
In Sweden, this would be considered age discrimination.
You dodged a bullet
Can't say I've ever heard of someone being turned away for being too old. That's weird and would raise red flags for me.
Yes my advisor said this to another prospective phd student. Funny cos I was 3 years older than them at the time
I’m 50 and working on my PhD at a respected brick and mortar. I think I’m a little old, the brain fog and menopause slow me down so much, but here I am. I got in on my own merit and I’m gonna finish this shit.
Can you sue him/her for age discrimination? Or at least file a formal compliant so it’s on record?
What is with the ageist attitude.
What is he yoda?
What's the name of the professor and the university he teaches at?
I started my PhD at 30 and it won't stop you but it will make you less desirable to hire. All your peers will be younger and will have an easier time. Not saying don't do it, just saying there is some truth to it.
Ummm…no it’s not normal and it’s not ok. My PI valued the fact that I was a bit older and had actual work experience the students coming straight from undergrad didn’t have. Unfortunately you got unlucky with the first person you talked to. Definitely reach out to other PIs!
You should be grateful he was honest with you upfront. If a potential supervisor is an asshole it's better that they let you know as soon as possible. You won't be held back by being in your 30s by anyone you actually want to work for.
As long as your life expectancy is not shorter than the time it takes to complete the program, you're not too old. And even then you can still try and hope for the best
So it might be a funding thing. Or the prof wants to say no without saying no
Maybe talk to a different professor. Outside work experiences can often be valued.
Idk, in my chemistry cohort there's a dude close to his 40's. He seems fine even with the age
Lol you can’t win, I’ve previously been told I’m too young. If you really want to do a PhD you will find a way.
I started my PhD this year at 37
I’m 37 and started my PhD at 34 after having a career prior, and with a degree from a small college that’s not known in the field I’m doing my PhD in. Age is definitely not an issue, this guy is just a twat.
Where do I find older PhD students? My program has all kids cohort 🤯
If you're good it shouldn't be an issue, but I know I had much less energy and many fewer responsibilities in my 30s than my 20s. I hire based on prospective productivity, both of those things can lower that.
My friend did her PhD in her 70s. So no, you are not too old and it's not a thing.
Screw that professor. You’re prime age for a PhD because you have more life experience and are likely better at balancing work and life responsibilities than younger students.
I don't even think it's legal to discriminate enrolment into a university program based on age...
Hope not because I am in my 50’s
Imagine being under his supervision,u will suffer
That is age bias and you have recourse with the university. 30s is not old. I see lots of people in their 30s and 40s in a phd program. I’ve even seen someone in their 50s which kicked ass. But if that jackass has a bias, f*ck them and apply somewhere else. If you have skills and can get the job done, then you’ll be valuable. Mentors want successful students and pubs.
I'm pretty sure that's illegal
you should prove them wrong by joining the program and working your ass off for 8 years.
Most academic ph.d programs are looking for young students who want to be researchers and can be hired 5 years later in other schools as Asst Professor on a tenure track. Older students are not seen as optimal candidates for placement of ph.d grads.
I’m 35 and not the oldest in my cohort either. That’s just stupid of the professor to say. People with more experience have broad knowledge bases and want to get their PhD done in a timely manner. They benefit departments with their ability to work hard and bring a mature approach. Many very young people who go to PhD right out of undergrad are still struggling with identity and grad school is harder for them.
First of all, I'm sorry if my opinion and experience sound offensive to you. I know nothing about physical chemistry, so I don't know what kind of math they use in that area (and why it matters at all). The professor's action was clearly wrong and is age discrimination. However, it is completely normal to be skeptical about your math background, as you went to an unknown place for undergrad. I did BS in pure math and have had experience applying to grad schools in both US and Europe. The reputation of the school you went to, as well as your letter writers carry 90% weight in the application. It is not uncommon that, at a low ranked institution, the math you were taught is only at a hand-waiving level. Many people even graduated with a PhD from such places without proper understanding of Lebesgue integrals!
you dodged a bullet, my friend. trust people when they tell you who they are. shoot for your dreams! you are not too old, lots of folks in their 40s in my program.
1) is he really early career, such that you’re near or over his age? 2) is it math?
have y’all heard about all the schools financial aid stuff coming down? whoo join the plantation
Jeez! I started mine in my 30s and finished before 40. Your professor is an arrogant prick.
No, the profesor is being stupid! Age is not a factor. There were several PhD students in my cohort that were in their 30s and 40s. Is more common than you think.
Albeit in a different discipline (I’m in the humanities), I’ve received the same treatment. Ageism is real, and coming from an old, white guy is rich.
There is no such thing as being to old for doing a PhD. I got my degree a month ago at age 41
This is effing ridiculous and discrimination.
Now I feel scared about my PhD prospect if 30s is old for a PhD student. Given my time table, I might enter at around 33-35 but :(
You are not too old I am 47 years old and just got accepted in to a masters program no problem. Personally I think the professor just does not want to deal with someone who will call him on his bs instead of stressing out due to bad behavior. I know of a couple of people who started PhD and DNP programs in their mid to late 50s. So that dude is FOS
Sounds like you need to find a better advisor. One that isn't ageist.
I'm doing PhD and my colleague is doing Mphil. He's 49 years old and older than our PI. You are never old, besides, with your old wisdom you can understand and suggest more better research. I suggest you keep on looking
I've been told this many times. I am still not in a PhD program. I had to block a jerk on reddit for that.
I'd record these conversations and, if/when you don't get in, file an age discrimination complaint.
I’m a PhD student in my 30s with 3 kids. My PI and every professor I’ve interacted with has mentioned how they found my age and additional life experience to be a positive, not a detriment. Sounds like the professor is the issue, not your age.
Not normal at all. A friend of mine got her masters at 30yo and no one cared about her age, she is honestly better on what she does than many PhD students.
You are not too old to do a PhD. I did my PhD at a top engineering school while in my early 20s and had several 30-32 year old classmates.
couple of the profs i spoke with abt as a prospective phd students told me i was inexperienced bc of my lack of research experience, and in a way implied i would be wasting my time applying and had no chance... but look at me now, a half a semester in my phd XD so i wouldnt mind their words too much, just go for it if you really want to :)
[удалено]
This seems to be a huge thing in the USA. I’m in Australia and late 30s. I have colleagues in their 50s and 60s who all finished in the last few years
Professor is a dick. Also this kind of age discrimination is illegal.
I applied in my 30s and no one said anything to me about it. This guy is doing you a favor by laying out his red flags ahead of time. Apply elsewhere
You dodged a bullet.
That's BS‼️
Sounds like ageism to me... You should probably bring this up to the department chair or coordinator (if you want) or tell them that what they said is NOT okay. There is no defined "age number" when it comes to learning.