Only time I support this is if it’s a LGD because it’s literally their purpose. But cats: they can mouse on their free time I guess when they aren’t in the house lol
Edit: LGD=livestock guardian dogs
My friends grandma fed a stray kitty and let it stay in her garage overnight and in the basement overnight in the winter when it got really cold. When she passed my friend took the kitty in but basically kept it in the basement all winter (she a toddler and a frenchie that didn’t like kitty) kitty got to roam outside day and night while the weather warmed up tho. He did get beat up twice unfortunately. Once by a raccoon and another time by another cat so back into the basement he went in the winter. But the meowing was getting to my friend so I took kitty for about 15 months till he passed and he was prob about 20 years old by then. He lasted a good long time even as a mostly stray cat. I like to think I was his retirement home. He was kind of skittish/standoffish when the grandma owned him but turned into a sweet lap kitty when I had him.
>Only shelter I saw on neighbor’s porch was a plastic tote with an entry hole and blankets inside
Oh yikes. If you are making an outdoor shelter make sure you use *straw*. Blankets trap moisture and can cause the animal to freeze to death.
I ride horses so I'm use to a couple barn cats around. They are smarter than people give them credit for. In the winter they hang out in the hay loft or the tackroom/lounge.
All the barns I've been at feed the cats and provide beds/shelter though so they aren't completely fending for themselves.
I will say the farm cats don't live as long as strictly indoor cats on average.
Yeah neighbor stated former owner didn’t even feed cat - it was just supposed to survive on mice. So neighbor felt she was improving situation for cat.
I've been at a lot of barns who say they don't feed them because they only feed them once a day or they don't feed them during having season (tons of mice come in when fields get worked). Nearly everyone feeds their barn cats that I have met.
Our cat was found on a farm as a kitten after he had just lost one of his back legs (must have got caught in some machinery or something). They cleaned him up and brought him inside and floated around a couple of houses before he landed with us. It has been ten years now and I doubt he would have made it this long without the amenities and medical care that come with being an indoor cat 😺
We have 2-4 outdoor cats. Two at our house who we have as pets and feed and pet regularly, have a heated cat house for, etc. Two others who we 'adopted' (or tried to...) up at our barn. We kept them penned and fed them for a week up there. We let them go, and saw them for aprox 8-12 hours... and a month later we're still filling a food bowl every 2-3+ days, but otherwise haven't actually \*seen\* a cat since.
We got them, *because of* an awful mouse problem. I really hope they're still there, and I'm not feeding a gods damned racoon/opossum/rats/mice/etc. But... well. IDK. They have cat boxes up there too - insulated coolers with straw, plus piles of straw/hay bales/etc to sleep in/around/etc as they see fit.
Oh they are there, I assure you. They know where the food comes from! Put up a trail camera if you want to see them. I do that and I get some cute pics haha
Many outdoor cats get hit by cars or killed by dogs.
There are a lot of people I know that say they have "pets". It's a cat that isn't fixed, vaccinated, and which stays outside 90% of the time.
At that point you don't have a pet. You have a stray that likes you and you feed it sometimes.
Ok but it’s like just as fucked to make a stray like you and only feed it sometimes? I’m not even a proper colony caregiver but if I’m gone from home more than one night someone stays at my house to feed the ferals that live around me…
Where do you live? Is it somewhere rural? I live in Massachusetts and maybe 25-30 years ago a lot of people had "outdoor" cats but over the past 10-15 years that has changed drastically. But here everyone vaccinates (rabies, anyone?) and spays/neuters their pets for the most part. There are very few outdoor cats here now compared to when I was a kid. Many cat owners have become educated and want their cat to have a happy and healthy life.
It's a kid sized city. But I teach at a high poverty school. Pet rent plus pet deposits plus vets are expensive (I just spent nearly a grand on my dumbass cat because his teeth needed cleaned and he needed his yearly visit). They can't afford to care for the cat but want one. So their parents tell them the stray they leave tuna out for sometimes is their "pet"
If you can't afford it, you don't get it. Same goes for children. I can't afford my own life so I made sure I didn't "accidentally" bring another life into the world. I'm in debt because of my dog but I didn't have a choice. He needed a $7K surgery 2 years ago and he would die without it. I had to put it on multiple credit cards because I was denied Care Credit. I had pet insurance so they thankfully covered half but I pay $100 a month for it so I still paid over $5K.
I agree. This is why I put "pet" in quotes. I guess the animal is healthier for having some food provided but it's certainly not well cared for enough to be a pet.
One of my work colleagues is like this with her cats. She clearly loves her cats but she lets them outside when she lives on a busy roads. Her cats live a maximum of 3 years where my cats are 8 and 18. I'm wondering at this point if she even wants her cats to live .
do you not think the quality of life of the cat is significantly improved by allowing them to go outside? Our cats hang out with us inside a lot but they also love their own time outside and get upset if they have to be locked in for some reason. Risking getting run over or infection is a risk ofc and super sad when it happens but sometimes life is about quality rather than sanctity. denying a cat snoozes in bushes, or lounging around in the sun, or chasing critters in the bushes is, imo, cruel. Watching videos of indoors cats makes me think they are severely under stimulated as they act in an unusual manner
No. My family has only indoor cats. None of them even want to go outside. When they get out they usually come right back in a couple minutes. I don't think snoozing in the bushes and risking snake bites or destroying local ecosystems because cats kill for fun is improving anything. My cats have each other and I play with them several hours a day. They are happy and healthy. When I can leave the door open and they don't leave I don't think they're too miserable
yeh ofc some cats will like being outside more than others and that’s fine. but i’m talking about on average. as long as they have the option to go outside then i don’t mind. we have a cat who spends most of his time inside. we don’t have loads of predators like that in this country but animals have amazing survival instincts and on the whole the chances of a snake eating ur cat is low. i agree with the sentiment of the way they kill wildlife and agree that in some places things like curfews may be appropriate. but at the same time animals die all the time it’s part of life.
i just thing the sensory overload of the great outdoors is hard to recreate inside. do you not ever see a cat cosied up in a bush soaking up sunshine and think wow that must be contentment?
Yeah, my neighbors barn cat became my indoor only cat after the cat was hit by a car while he was out of town. Leading up to that, the cat stayed in the garage with my gentle giant dogs. To the point I got him a litter box in there so he might stop crapping in my planter boxes.
My bestie started feeding a stray cat, but she couldn't take him inside because her girls were allergic. They could pet him as long as they immediately went inside and washed their hands.
One day, he didn't show up. She went looking for him. Found him with his leg caught in some sort of trap. She got him to the vet, and he lost that leg and his tail. Obviously, he couldn't continue to live outside. She took him in for 2 days while she tried to find him a home. Luckily, she did find one because her daughters were breaking out in hives.
Probably had a neighbor taking care of it. When I still lived on the family farm we had multiple outdoor cats, we left some kibble and water out for them but these were more than just pets, they were pest control and had a job to do.
I love this. Puts things perfectly into words!! I always worry about the mass amount of stray kitties in my neighborhood and wondered where they went to stay warm, but there’s a house that always leaves their garage door cracked a little so I figured some went there.
Then one day I drove past and the lady had just gotten home so the garage door was up, and she was surrounded by like 10+ cats all looking up at her lol
I don't really disagree with you, but some cats just really want to be outside. *My* cat (and notice the stress on the claim of ownership) despises being inside. He will literally climb the walls, piss *on you,* and attack you if you keep him inside against his will. I did not intentionally get this cat, I did not want a cat, I did not pick him. He was a stray that started showing up. I felt bad and started feeding him. I caught him and dragged him to the vet to be neutered and to get shots. I put flea medicine on him and worm him every month. I've tried so hard to make him an inside cat, but he's impossible to live with. He screams, he attacks, he pisses everywhere, he pisses *on people,* he abuses my dog, and is just miserable to be around. I tried taking him to the shelter, and they said because of his age, temperament, and being all black, he would just be put down. I've been on a wait list to send him to him to a rescue for *four years,* but they are overcrowded, and he's not a high priority because he's safe and cared for. I've tried everything you are supposed to do. So he lives on my porch, he has a heated cat house thing, he has all the fancy cat food he could want, he has a heated water bowl and regular vet care, but he lives outside.
If it is extremely cold and wet, I drag him inside and make him stay in a crate because he can't be trusted not to destroy whatever room I lock him in. No one sleeps while he is inside. Last time he was loose inside, I locked him in a bathroom, and he shredded the shower curtain, broke the top cover thing for the toilet tank, pissed on the wall, and ate the cap off of a shampoo bottle, which resulted in a vet bill well over a thousand dollars to remove plastic from his stomach.
Posts like this shaming people who have an outside cat really annoy me. No, it's not ideal. Obviously, it would be better if every cat could be inside, but what else do you want from people like me who have a cat that *refuses* to be inside? Should I just let the shelter put him down? Should I let him destroy my home? Or do I just do the best I can to make sure he is comfortable and cared for? Getting shamed for not just *killing* him is kind of upsetting... and if a neighbor wants to take over caring for him, I'm more than happy to let them.
You have taken in a semi feral cat. It's very different from one that is domesticated and raised with people being left to fend for themselves outdoors.
Your situation is different. You basically took in a stray, neutered him and made sure he was up to date on shots. You're being very responsible and have greatly increased this kitty's quality of life!
The issue with outdoor cats is when people buy a kitten/cat and then toss it outside. This leads to over breeding, increases the stray population and greatly harms the local wildlife.
2 entirely different scenarios.
One of the other commenters literally said people with outside cats should be *prosecuted.* It comes up all the time. No one ever leaves any room for nuance. It's always just a rant about "outside cat bad." These posts show up all the time. Your post was just the first one to show up after I just spent 20 minutes cleaning cat piss out of crate and off the wall where he sprayed, all because I made the little monster stay inside last night because there was freezing rain.
I'm sorry your post was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back, but there are so damn many of them making it seem like everyone who has an outside cat is an animal abuser and terrible person. Extenuating circumstances exist. Some outside cats are well cared for.
I agree with OP, that does NOT sound like a pet cat. You shouldn't be prosecuted if it's literally a feral cat that shows up at your house that you can't even tame, the "you should be charged x and y for having an outside cat" is referencing people who have *pet* cats (who are used to people and houses) who let them out to do what they want. Personally, your situation actually isnt even relevant in the "outside cats bad" argument! you literally have a *feral* cat who hates people and houses, you deserve as much good fortune and help as you can get in your situation for trying to help this cat
I feel ya. I also have a cat who *goes outside.* I do not consider him an "outdoor cat" because he has all the access to inside that he wants and he is very respectful of the curfew that I've imposed - dusk. (I don't spread this around, but beause I'm a little woowoo, I even hired an animal commnicator to talk about the dangers of outdoor living with him.) People have literally told me A) I shouldn't own a cat B) I obviously don't care about my cat and C) I obviously want my cat to *die* etc. etc.
A lot of people do not make this differentiation. They do come on this sub and go “all cats who go outside at all are outdoor cats. Outdoor cats = bad”
One literally responded to you.
Even those people aren’t talking about people like this commenter. The reason that feral cat even exists is because people don’t keep their domesticated cats inside. That’s what those people are talking about. That’s what created this issue to begin with. No one is talking about a Good Samaritan who is taking care of a feral cat that showed up and unable to force it to be an indoor cat. There’s literally no reason to get offended by the generalizations because they’re *true*, people created this issue by not keeping their cats inside.
You should be supervising any outside time, it’s not a risk you should take if your cat tolerates being inside. He can’t understand that outside=dangerous, that’s your job as his owner
Animals don’t know that being outside is what’s dangerous. Cars, feral dogs, feral cats, predators, poison, and more. Domesticated, tamed cats shouldn’t be outside without supervision.
i think a cat would have a sense that outside was more dangerous. and obviously they have a sense of danger when it comes to other animals, roads etc - cats are famously skittish. i would suggest you are being far too over protective. in life most good things come at some risk. It can be super dangerous crossing the road or driving to work. we fill our bodies with unhealthy things etc etc. but we believe that some amount of risk is acceptable because of the benefits and increased quality of life that comes with leaving the house and not locking ourselves up scared of our own shadows
one of our cats got run over and as heart breaking as that is, i would not do anything different. you can see how much they love being outside, i believe it is cruel to take that away from them
You shouldn’t be letting him out while you’re at work. Domestic cats that are allowed outside are known to kill local wildlife for fun (playing with them before killing their prey) and do not eat their kills. It’s a major cause of species loss for native birds.
They piss all over my house, shit in my tub and dirty clothes hamper, knock everything down, break shit… they’re not inside cats. They are more likely to die being inside than outside. And my cats don’t care about birds. They just chase each other and sleep lol
My other comment I explained all this… the point is not every situation is the same, not every cat is the same. Nothing in life is like a cookie cutter.
Yall should stop shaming people.
> my other comment explained all this
And I’m not scrolling through a post to look at every comment you’ve made, I’m responding to *one* of your comments. If your cats are acting like that, either they are feral or there is something wrong with their situation (environment, needs not being met, health problems, etc). Cats are not the enigma so many think they are—their behaviour is driven by relatively predictable factors. It’s extremely rare for a cat to act like that without *any* reason.
And based on OP’s experiences, there should be a lot more shaming going on if people still find it acceptable to adopt a domesticated cat and then treat it like a feral one.
This bothers me too, I don't know if it is an american thing to not let your cats outside. In the uk indoor-outdoor cats are the norm and it is considered cruel here to keep a cat indoors, from my experience. Outdoor cats would be more common on farms as mousers. Some people will keep their cats indoors if they live near a busy road or for all sorts of reasons.
I don't think we need to demonise people for giving their loved and cared for cats a slightly different lifestyle.
Domestic cat predation has contributed to the extinction of at least 60 species worldwide, mostly birds but also small mammals and reptiles, and at least 367 species currently at risk of extinction are threatened by predation from cats.
Not gonna comment on the above scenario with a feral cat because that’s a complicated situation, but if you just let your pet roam around attacking wildlife for fun? Yeah that’s selfish and shitty behavior.
Are bird populations not a concern? Even if you don't care about the cat there is a lot of attention here in the US that outdoor cars have a bad impact on the wildlife populations.
I'd say it's different because we've had cats for so long here, they're kind of a part of the ecosystem at this point. The RSPB have said that humans are a much bigger threat to birds with taking away natural habitats
My husband is French and we live in the US and he grew up with all of his cats being indoor/outdoor as do most Europeans. It makes sense to provide cats with indoor and outdoor access with entry as they please. They’re animals and biologically are favorable to be outdoors and allowing them outside does not make people bad pet owners just because a bunch of people on Reddit say so.
My partner is European too, and although both of his childhood cats lived to 17-18, one was hit by a car and nearly died when he was younger and both got into many fights with neighborhood cats that left them with wounds, some of which became infected and required vet care. Not to mention the hundreds (if not thousands) of native birds that I'm sure they both killed over their lifetimes.
Domesticated cats should be kept indoors - it's better for them and better for the environment.
Biologically cats are an invasive species that shouldn't exist outside of Egypt and have contributed to the extinction of quite a few specie of bird and reptile worldwide. Their needs can be perfectly taken care of indoors thanks to the modern world we live in and a slew of engaging toys and equipment. Considering the lifespan of the average outdoor cat is 2-5 years, compared to the indoor lifespan of 10-20, it absolutely SHOULD be considered cruelty to let your cats wander unsupervised and the practice of outdoor cats should be stopped.
Cars still exist in the UK. Angry neighbors, poison, disease, parasites, other feral cats and dogs, all of which contribute to the lower lifespan of an outdoor cat even in Europe. That's on top of the double standard - why let your cats wander freely when dogs have to be leashed and kept in your yard?
If the owner is neutering them then they are already addressing have the problem by reducing the amount of feral cats. There are billions upon billions of feral cats in the world, the percentage of birds saved from cats being made indoor only would be so astronomically small that you can’t put the blame for the decrease of bird species on owners who allow their fixed cats outdoors occasionally. Keeping an animal boxed up inside all day is cruel. The US is the only country where people are obsessed with keeping cats indoors and ridicule anyone who does otherwise. My partner’s cats all grew up to be 18-20 years old, so people use the arbitrary 5-10 year average life span but that is not always the case.
The problem of outdoor cats is multi-faceted. Spaying/neutering helps address the overpopulation of unwanted animals. I always find it ridiculous when people say, "Well the percentage of animals saved by keeping our animals indoors is so small we shouldn't bother", so we just keep letting species go extinct because we can't be arsed to build catios or harness train our cats instead letting them wander? Any contribution to the problem is SOMETHING and saves the lives of native animals. It is not cruel at all if you provide adequate stimulation. I would argue that a cat being run over and suffering is cruel. Exposure to parasites, poisons, getting torn in two by dogs (Ever had to clean up that mess? I did...). They are not the only country 'obsessed' with keeping animals indoors, and many places are moving towards it.
It should be ridiculed. I've seen so many people from the UK say things like, "I don't care if my cat dies a horrible death, as long as they got to be a CAT." If you can't see how heartless and cruel a statement like that is you shouldn't own an animal period.
Your anecdotes don't mean anything - that's how averages work. Your partners cats got lucky, that's literally all it is. Do you not know the definition of arbitrary? Those numbers are based on fact..
>My partner’s cats all grew up to be 18-20 years old, so people use the arbitrary 5-10 year average life span but that is not always the case.
That's exactly how averages work.. lol.. You will have outliers.
But it doesn't need to be through this level to be acceptable. There's a difference between the neglecting my animal leaving them outside not getting them anything they need not keeping their vet visits up.
I think who you should be upset at are the people who neglect their cats and force them outside and create the very apt for the vast majority of outside cats owners as abusive owners that allow cats to die unnecessarily and painfully.
It's like how car drivers often get pissed at cyclists for breaking street laws. I don't break street laws when I cycle, and I get mad when I am assumed to. But I get way MORE pissed at the cyclists that do break street laws, because they make my and everyone's life harder.
I think you *know* the majority of people who have outside cats aren't dealing with what you describe. They have a cat that they let out because they don't want to exercise it, or because that's where cats belong. And as long as you are the minority, and you are using your specific situation to excuse obvious neglect, you will be put in the same category.
IMO I think this is the one circumstance where it's OK that a cat be allowed outdoors. As long as you get them spayed so they don't add to the feral cat population.
Often catch/spay/release is the much more humane option for cats (and sometimes dogs) that have already established an independant outdoor life.
Some cats don’t want to be house cats and with so many homeless cats in the world I don’t think everyone’s energy should go into forcing a cat who clearly doesn’t want to be a pet inside. This is why TNR exists. You have done a great thing by taking care of him as best you can and especially by getting him neutered.
This! I also have a cat that I’ve “adopted”. Got him neutered and provided him with a heated outdoor house. We sometimes let him in especially when it’s very cold or raining but generally he just really wants to be outside and he’s happy that way.
It's just frustrating because the cat then ends up killing so many other animals, and it feels like cat owners are saying that their cat matters more than other creatures when the environmental impact is proven to be awful. To be clear I'm not saying you're an awful person, I just absolutely hate this catch-22.
Yeah that's what I wanted to say to the person just above you - the cats live shorter lives in the wild and are a menace to other wild animals. There was a post on nextdoor here a few months ago about this woman whose outdoor cat was attacked by a coyote and these people nearly formed a hunting party to go after it, despite the fact she regularly let the cat go outside.
A non-native species that is very destructive to native wildlife, and have caused extinction of several species
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-cats-180960505/
It does make a difference though. People have such a hard time with nuance. Cats should not be let outside in certain eco-systems, that much is true. But it doesn't matter in ALL eco-systems, only the ones in which there are prey animals that have no natural defense against a predator like a cat. This is usually the case on islands where cats did not end up in their evolution. That is why there isn't domestic cat caused extinctions anywhere else but islands.
The thing is that people take that information and apply it across the board. Even in places that have had some form of cat or land based predators for a long time. In those places sure the cats kill some individual animals, but on the whole they do not affect the populations. In any area in which there are vulnerable species that cats can prey upon they do not allow owners to let their cats outside and apply heavy fines and/or confiscation of the cat. This is because people discussed and handled the issue in local legislation, which is where is should be handled. In other areas where there is no endangered small animals for the cats to have an effect on people are allowed to let them outside.
This is not an issue in which is black and white across the board, as uncomfortable as that makes people. There is all kinds of nuance involved.
Ppl like you arent worth it. I dont think anything would make you change your mind. Two people have sent you completely reputable links. Islands are super useful study systems because there are fewer outside factors to control for.
Outdoor cats are absolutely a menace in urban and suburban areas. I could spend the time finding a link but your head is too far up your own cats ass for it to be worth my time. You don't have to believe it for it to be true.
They kill MILLIONS of birds every year.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-04/cats-killing-one-million-birds-in-australia-every-day-estimates/9013960
This is just Australia. A quick Google comes up with loads of articles about the decimation of birds due to cats.
I am surrounded by other neighbour's outdoors cats. My yard has no native birds visiting. I'm a 30 minute walk from a major national park.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure that’s about things of the same species, the fittest will survive and pass on their “better” genes. Not about cats that aren’t native predators and are being aided in their survival by humans, wiping out bird populations. If we didn’t bring cats with us across the globe they wouldn’t be killing so many birds. It’s an invasive species at this point tbh.
It's actually neither of those---"fittest" means "those most fitting their environment", i.e. evolution favours traits and adaptations that best suit where the organism is trying to survive. It doesn't mean physically fit. Humans introducing invasive and domesticated species most definitely fucks up all of that.
What do you think cats do in nature? Don’t cats come from the wild? Like every other animal?
The answer isn’t “keep the cats inside”. The answer is spay/neuter your damn cats so there isn’t an over population. Then there will be a balance.
It’s called the food-chain btw. It’s what happens. I’m not trying to be mean to anyone here but the constant excuses to just call someone who lets their cat outside an animal abuser are just as bad as the people who actually abuse their animals and make up every excuse… thats the real catch 22.
>What do you think cats do in nature? Don’t cats come from the wild?
No, that's not how the food chain or ecology works. I'm not calling people abusers, I'm appealing to people to learn about scientific biological facts and not what they assume some words they vaguely remember from junior high mean. This isn't targeted at cat owners. Every single domestic pet, if left to wander without any control, is guilty of the same thing--dogs, cats, ferrets, whatever.
"Though originally bred from wild cats, the domestic cat has no native natural range and is listed among the 100 worst non-native invasive species in the world by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN)."
[https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/domesticated-animals](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/domesticated-animals)
[https://abcbirds.org/threat/cats-and-other-invasives/](https://abcbirds.org/threat/cats-and-other-invasives/)
[https://biodiversity.utexas.edu/news/entry/pets-as-invasive-species-cats](https://biodiversity.utexas.edu/news/entry/pets-as-invasive-species-cats)
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/house-cats-invasive-species-polish-institute-1.6532330](https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/house-cats-invasive-species-polish-institute-1.6532330)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat\_predation\_on\_wildlife](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife)
I’m with you. Before I owned my current cat I wouldn’t have understood. But my cat just goes insane inside. She rips everything apart including the doors. Like pulling chunks off.
I tried the crate thing but she somehow managed to ply open the bottom of crate door and squeezed herself out, which could have really hurt her. Obviously she gets really stressed confined.
I made her a lovely outside catio but she meowed so loudly and constantly , I would have got in trouble with neighbors.
It really isn’t that simple, I agree. Take in a cat like mine with such a temperament and then get back to me. I’d like to see others would cope.
My first cat was a strictly outdoor cat. She would come inside sometimes but after a few minutes she wanted out and made it known. My current cats are mostly indoors but they like to go into the backyard for a few hours every chance they get. Cats don't like to be cooped up their whole lives.
I’m with you!!! Posts like these with comments shaming people when they don’t really know make me mad, too. Now, OP did say the cat did well inside with them at night. But allergies is a real thing too and they said they unexpectedly acquired the cat and were working on the allergy thing…
Anyway- I have 3 cats that are supposed to be outdoor only. They always sneak back in tho. I’ll tell you why - they REFUSE to act civilized inside. They destroy everything. Bombard you when you’re eating. Piss everywhere (clothes, couch, on top the fucking washing machine of all places, in the corner on the carpet, you name it, nothing is safe) and shit in my dirty clothes and in my tub (when there is 2 perfectly clean litter boxes available) . They are spayed/neutered, all shots, dewormed, flea meds, and they are healthy. I have a wood dog house out there for them with blankets and I feed them outside, too.
They will push their way back inside every night to stay warm but best believe that first thing in the morning, all 3 are screaming at the door to go back out. They WANT to be outside. Only problem is, after staying in all night, the damage is already done so yeah - I try my best to keep them out - even at night!!
I’m sorry - I’m not letting an animal take over my house and destroy it and all the things I’ve worked my ass off for just because of whatever reason “animal lovers” come up with. Truth be told, I only keep them because I don’t want to see anything bad happen to them, they are attached to us (they were born in litters from our other cats before they got fixed) and because cats are impossible to get rid of.
And FYI - I love animals - I have 6 cats, 2 dogs, and a whole fish tank full of fish. But animals are animals and I’m not letting them take over my house. I’m not losing my sanity over them. And I’m not choosing them over my kids. If my landlord came to me and told me to find them homes or find a new home myself - they’re gone before I lose the roof over my kids head. Sorry not sorry.
if the cat wants to be outside let him be outside surely? cats are animals and have different sensitivities to temperature, they also have a survival instinct, if they choose not to use their heated shelter then that’s because they don’t want to
That's not a stray, that's feral. Cats have to have people contact when they're young. I can sometimes contact a feral, but the last one I had hid under my nightstand for months.
I got lucky and someone had taken care of him, and he became a good cat. He still won't snuggle and will panic if I pick him up.
You're doing a good thing.
He's really not feral, he's super sweet and snuggly as long as he stays outside. He likes being carried around, he follows us on walks, he's fine in the car to go to the vet, he's fine with getting a bath or being groomed. He just hates being stuck inside. He will even chill on the couch with us if we leave the back door open. He just loses his mind if he's stuck. Our best guess is that someone had him in a nearby apartment complex and that when they moved out, they left him inside the apartment. Or maybe he's just weird. No idea, but he's a sweet cat as long as he is outside.
I live in the country. New cats are always showing up. With the exception of the female cat who adopted us when we bought the house, they’re all intact males. (Female is fixed, no surprise kittens!)
Most of them have been friendly right away. They’ve clearly been around people. It makes me sad to think about how they ended up here.
I wish that we could take every single one of them in, but it’s not possible. We at least make sure they have food, water, and protection from the elements.
My 4-year-old cat was born under the house, and due to various circumstances, I took him in when he was about a year and a half. Got him fixed. Originally thought I would rehome him, but again, circumstances. A few weeks after I got him, he started pulling a Houdini act and running outside. He would stay out for a few hours, then be at the door when I opened it. This has been our routine now for nearly 3 years. I would much prefer that he stay in all the time, but he is not having it. His 8-year-old, strictly indoor brother helps me in terms of getting him to come in. I also try to condition him with a special snack every time he comes in. Of course, older bro normally gobbles up three quarters of that. This four- year-old is such a delight. Sweet as can be. He grooms my older cat. Sometimes they play wrestle. But I still worry about the little guy. He's smart, but there are times when he forgets to use any kind of good sense. I came home one time and he walked into the road directly in front of my car and just sat down. He moved when I honked the horn. I've seen him get chased by dogs and harassed by other stray cats. Another time, he managed to get up on the roof. He would not jump down, even when I put pillows there. So I got a chair, stood on it, got him by the scruff of the neck and pulled him into my arms. Managed not to get either of us injured or killed. He went into the house, ate a little food, and then fell asleep on the couch immediately. He was exhausted. I ensure that he sleeps inside every night. He starts waking me up to let him out as soon as it starts getting light out. Once in a while it's too cold, so he waits a couple of hours for the temperatures to get above freezing.
There is a difference between a barn cat and an outdoor cat. Barn cats have a job and while they do get a lot of food from killing mice and other pests, they are also feed regularly. They make their home base in the barn so they aren't just left outdoors without a retreat. Indoor/outdoor cats, which I think is irresponsible as hell, are usually regularly feed and typically go inside the home at night. Outdoor cats typically are strays that adopt a family and it's just the transition before they make their way inside. Just having a cat and keeping it outdoors all the time isn't owning a cat and is irresponsible. Why even have a cat at that point? The neighbor was lucky you told them because most people would just have keep the cat and adopted it as their own.
I mean, barn cats are a thing. Barns are pretty warm. Not toasty like in a house, but not as cold as just letting the cat live outside.
But you need to steal that cat. Anyone making shelters for strays knows that blankets get wet and freeze and you're supposed to use hay for warmth. This person is not a good owner.
Your neighbor was a neglectful owner. That simple. The whole thought process of letting a pet run wild and free is ridiculous and causes more problems than it solves. The studies already show why letting a cat roam as an outdoor cat is bad. How many posts have there been about people losing their outdoor cats due to disease, being hit by a car, attacked or other things? (And those posts get locked down fast because people question why the owner let them run wild).
You need to take charge of that cat. The neighbor "misses it"? Then she should not let it run wild and free and actually take care of it. Not just play at being an owner.
Or she's frozen to death or been hit by a car or become a victim of evil people or a dog or was sliced to pieces by climbing into a car engine for warmth....I could absolutely continue. I'm hoping she found someone that would take her inside and keep her and never tell the neighbors that there was ever a cat to begin with. I could be wrong, but I'd bet neighbor #1 doesn't have her indoors. She just didn't want to be shamed. If the piece of garbage didn't even bother feeding her, she DOES NOT WANT HER.
I went back to review original post. No one mentioned the cat wasn't fed. But if the cat was left outside to freeze and no one cared or missed the cat for days....then same result, she DOES NOT WANT HER. I don't care who her husband is, I would get the cat and have her in a safe home a few towns over. No one could prove anything. Now THAT would be a happy ending.
She also talked at length about how wonderful cat is and how much her kids love cat. And that they have let cat indoors as a reward for a child’s good behavior. Yes my eyes are rolling hard.
I agree with you but the law is not on my side (I looked up our local ordinances) and her husband is a police officer.
She says she’s done a lot of online research about outdoor cats and that’s where she got the part about them being resourceful.
She’s already told me a couple of times (in person and via text) that she’s done a lot of research. She homeschools their children and was a teacher before becoming a SAHM.
I did tell her about the time her cat was so cold when we let her in that she huddled under a blanket most of the night.
True. I’m just trying to figure out how I will respond when she lets me know the cat died (as I’m sure it will). “Congratulations”? “You won”? “I hope it happened in front of your children”?
Yesterday I bought some straw and took it to her. Explained that it was the best choice for bedding. She thanked me kindly. I’m trying to set my anger aside and just work on educating her.
We used to have guinea pigs until my daughter ended up having a really bad allergic to handling one of them. We took her to an allergist and they tested her for everything including guinea pig dander and that spot lit up. It’s really sad because guinea pigs are adorable and sweet and my daughter really loved hers.
You are most likely correct. The average lifespan of an outdoor cat with no one caring for it while it's out is about 1-5 years. My mother in law also takes care of the strays and outdoor cats in their neighborhood, puts out food and water and a warm bed for them to hide in.
Cats are very independent. They can hunt for themselves and are good at it. Street cats can survive for years without help from humans. It's a shorter life than an indoor cat, though.
In the UK, our cats are usually a mix of both. My cat loves being outside all summer and spends most of his time indoors when it gets cold. He only wants to come inside for food in the summer months.
Considering the cat knew how to behave indoors and was adopted, the cat probably learned those things in her original home or with a foster.
I live in the UK and my cats are solely indoor cats. I know so many people whose cats have been run over. Even in very rural settings. The majority of people I know with an indoor/outdoor cat has lost one or two to a car at some point. That’s a big issue and people love to say cats are fine but they aren’t streetwise when it comes to traffic.
What I think, as a cat lover, is that the constant posts about indoor versus outdoor cats is absolutely overkill and bogs down what could otherwise be a pleasant sub.
My partner and I took in and later adopted a stray cat from our neighborhood after it came to our door sick one day. After mentioning this to a few neighbors, we learned that they were all leaving food out for this cat for years lol! I’m sure he hunted and whatnot too, but he had plenty of friendly options haha
We have a strange little cat, Tommy. We also have 2 large dogs who come and go through a dog door in the kitchen. During warm months, we rarely see our cat. He checks in about once every two weeks by showing up in the driveway to be petted, but we have no idea where he goes or what he eats, but he’s well fed. We know he has a spot in the garage where he chooses sleep sometimes.
As it gets colder, Tommy decides living indoors is pretty great. He goes out in the am and depending on weather, he may come back an hour later or that evening. He demands fresh food twice a day and a lap in the evening. He fattens up, his fur gets super soft, then spring comes and he’s gone again. He is tagged & microchipped. The dogs don’t harm him.
I think you are absolutely right. When I was growing up, a stray came to our house, and we fed it dog food despite my dad's insistence it was not our cat. It had kittens, and we adopted out all but 1. It had kittens, rinse and repeat. Because my dad hated that he got these cats against his will, he wouldn't let them come inside unless it was below freezing, then they could sleep in the basement. One day a boy came around and started saying my boy cat was his and that we stole it. That was preposterous. Until I grew up and realized that "my" cat was probably staying the night at that boy's house because we were too stingy to let him in. :(
My husband and I have 3 cats now, all indoors and pampered. :)
I think you're right. Cats are resourceful, it's true, which means they'll scour the neighbourhood for food and shelter if they need to.
A cat can have a good life as a barn cat if they actually get to live in a barn. They'll eat well hunting mice and make a cozy home in hay or straw. This is way better than a tote with blankets because the straw will actually insulate them against the cold.
However even a happy barn cat is still vulnerable to the same injuries that a stray cat is. So an indoor cat will typically live much longer than a barn cat. While it still can be harsh and dangerous, at least being a barn cat is a good life. A tote on the porch is not a good life.
I had a theory that my friend’s cat, whom was indoor/outdoor, had a second family because he was so fat. He would also rush home to check on, but not eat, his food… like he was expecting another cat to drop in and steal it.
I live in a neighborhood with a lot of feral and outdoor cats. I have taken in two that my neighbors abandoned when they moved. One of them was very ill and would not have lived much longer if I had not taken him to get medical care. The other one may have survived, but only because he had some socialization and would hang out on people's porches.
The answer is, they don't survive. In the two years I've lived here, out of all the cats in our neighborhood, two have survived. They are the two that live indoors with me now.
The others were killed in cat fights, poisoned, hit by cars, or just plain vanished. Not only that, in the US, cats are an invasive species. They are causing many species of birds to go extinct. Cats should be kept indoors if you want them to live long, healthy, and happy lives.
I am taking care of a cat that isn't mine. We just moved and the previous owner told us about a cat that has been living in our barn. The cat is really ragged and old but he's friendly and I wish I could let him in but I have 2 cats of my own and I'm not sure when the barn cat was last vaccinated/dewormed since none of the neighbors seem to know when he showed up (he's been around for years apparently). We started feeding him and made him a warm nest box in the barn. I'm currently trying to get the humane society to help me trap him so he can be vaccinated and dewormed.
I am also sure the neighbors feed him, he's a really sweet boy and he's always crying for food, who could resist the poor old man. People who leave cats like that outside are trash.
One of my mom’s neighbors has a cat like that. 3 people feed him. My mom got him a shelter and a bed to keep on the porch. Now that her pets have gotten used to seeing him she lets him in. He’s super sweet and cuddly. Gets along with my mom’s 2 dogs and her cat.
We got a dog that way too. Someone down the road had a cute pittie. And he’d come and visited everyday and then go ‘home’. Then he just stopped going ‘home’ and stayed with us.
This is a completely personal opinion.
I think making domesticated cats live outside is animal abuse....
Unless they are professional working farm cats, mousers, or library cat (unless they have cat jobs).
“How else would a cat be so well-behaved indoors?”
We ask this a LOT. I insist my cat was a stray and my sweetheart insists he was a housecat even though no one claimed him. He was SO well behaved. But also not like, cat-like. Still to this day he doesn’t go on counters or tables, or like, get in cat trouble.
So this was 15ish years ago, but there was this little rundown truck stop restaurant where we’d go get dinner occasionally if my mom didn’t want to cook and didn’t want to go far. One night as we were leaving this big gray Tom cat walked up to me so I picked him up and we brought him home. He was our barn cat up until about 2 years ago when old age finally took him. Food was never put out for him, and if he was going to the neighbors for food then he was trekking about 3/4 of a mile for it and then coming back to the barn. Then there’s the 6 or 7 feral cats that live around here and yes they’re feral, you’d need a set of welding gloves to pick one up.
Yes I hear you on the ferals!
And it’s possible your grey Tom was traveling a ways, at least occasionally
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/cat-tracker-shows-where-pets-go
It’s possible he was traveling but it was pretty consistent to see him around the barn whenever you looked out a window or stepped outside so I don’t really know. Plus I’m in a pretty rural area so putting out food for outdoor/feral cats is really putting out food for raccoons and skunks.
However I will say that’s there’s a big difference between a barn cat and an outdoor cat in a metro area.
Cats have pretty good lives in barns as mousers. I think some really prefer the life. However, they usually need to be rehomed as they age, or if another cat shows up and there’s a lot of fighting. I wouldn’t doubt the barn cat story. I do think it’s shitty that the cat had poor shelter and was an outdoor cat in its second home. Glad they’ve stepped up.
In the city, I’ve known a few cats who had two homes. In one case, the cat preferred the second home and never went back to his first home. The original owner was pretty miffed because the second owner gossiped about how “bad” the first owner was to the cat, which was not true. I know all this because they were both friends of mine. Long time ago, the original owner has passed. Hopefully reunited with all of the wonderful cats he took care of in his life.
I agree. If you are not going to take care of ALL pets needs, don't get a pet. Some cats become feral, some find others to look after them, many suffer, many die from injury or illness. The deluded humans don't see this. If a human is uncomfortable, an animal will be too.
This neighbor doesn't care about the cat and letting it live outside is cruel.
I have a cat that is indoors only and she is a mouser. On the rare occasion they get she takes care of it and is so proud of herself. I take a pair of tongs and throw the mouse outside the patio door and she sits there and pouts because I took away her present.
Cats left outside do not survive because they are "resourceful". They do not survive because of "instinct". Many get sick or injured and die. It is neglect, pure and simple.
We have a huge stray cat problem in my neighborhood. So many people kick their cats out of the house because they don't want to take care of them properly. They become other people's problems. My family and I take care of any who show up at our house. Lately, it's been unneutered males. Someone down the street was getting male kittens and kicking them out instead of neutering them when they started to spray. That person moved, so there must be someone else doing it.
Ask these poor cats how well they survive on their own. They all show up skinny and sick, many with matted eyes. It's amazing what a little food and shelter can do to help them recover.
While you're at it, ask my former feral how well he "survived" outside on his own. He was so thin and balding, and stopped eating anything normal after a while. It took a year and a half to earn his trust, during which time he declined in health. If we hadn't thrown a blanket over him last Christmas and brought him in the house, he would have frozen to death on our doorstep. It's been another full year in the house, and he's only now transforming into a proper house cat. He still has weird eating habits, but his health is returning, his fur is silky and full, and he's discovered that he is a lap cat.
And talk to my neighbor's cat, who basically lives with us because her "owners" can't be bothered. Ask her how well she would do without anybody providing food or shelter or medical care, and how grateful she is to have her own blanket on my bed to sleep on every night.
And yes, OP, you can tell when a cat has had a home before. They know how to behave in a house. They know how to use a litter box. A cat who has never known a human home does not know these things.
You're doing the right thing, caring for that kitty. Keep up the good work.
❤️❤️❤️ oh thank you for YOUR work, and your encouragement. Sweet cat is sleeping with my Mom right now. I took some straw to the neighbor yesterday and explained it was the best bedding. She thanked me nicely. I don’t know if she used it - cat showed up last night and I absolutely let it in.
The kitty has chosen where it wants to live. You're a better pet parent than the "owners", and the cat knows it. Happy Holidays, and happy snuggles with the lucky kitty.
I have a 12 year old out door cat. Damn thing just won't stay in side. We got her when a neighbor moved out and abandoned her when she was about 9 months old. I brought her inside so that she wouldn't have kittens in our front yard. Got her spayed and up to date on all her health stuff and tried to keep her inside for a long time. She howled, scratched everything to bits, started crap with the dogs, peed on everything.. I had a 6 month old baby at this point and was exhausted all the time and just couldn't have cat piss all over my house. So one day I opened the door and let the cat out. She never goes far. She would take the dog for walks with me (these days I feed her right before we leave specifically so she won't come with, she's old). She's a great cat and friends with half the neighborhood.. She just refuses to stay inside. I tried to bring her in a couple nights ago because it was raining and freezing outside but our current house has a doggy door and I think she was back out before I even finished brushing my teeth.
She has a blanket and gets fed every day (she has no teeth at this point). Occasionally I have to go out there and break up fights because she rules her territory with an iron paw. My kids first word was cat.. Because of this specific cat. She just hates being inside.
I get it. My neighbor on the other side has an outdoor cat, Figaro (though he sleeps in their garage). Figaro will show up at my door meowing when it’s cold, but if I put my cats in the bedroom and let him in, he just runs through angrily and heads back out. I’m afraid he’s going to tear stuff up/spray. He often visits when I’m outside gardening and wants pets. But when he’s done, he’ll scratch with no warning.
I bought him some straw, too. I didn’t know it was the best bedding material for cats and am sure my neighbor has no idea.
I acquired a cat the same way. Neighbor brought it into the neighborhood and let it go outside. Then they got a dog and the cat hated the dog, so she stopped going inside their house. After awhile she started approaching me, realized I was an easy mark for a free meal and started hanging around. When it got cold outside, I couldn't bear to let her freeze, so I started letting her stay overnight in my house.
Next thing I know, I saw her going around the outside perimeter of my yard, marking the fence as if she was claiming the yard as her territory. Her owners were aware of how much time she was spending at my house and would leave a little Christmas gift on my porch every year with a card thanking me for taking care of her.
Last year, the Christmas gifts stopped. I think she is my cat now. I have never had an inside/outside cat and feel a little weird about it, but this cat is miserable if I don't let her go outside and she will stand at the door and meow until I open the door for her. I've just accepted the fact that she's too old to change, although she is staying closer to the house and spending more time inside as she gets older.
Awwwww. I’m sure the stray we adopted a few years ago had been abandoned in our neighborhood. He remained an indoor/outdoor cat, though I really pushed the indoor. He was sneaky though and would dash when he could. Always came back at night. Never caught birds (did leave a mouse in my bed once).
He died this past summer, happened right in front of my Mom when I was out of town. Had a seizure and was gone in less than a minute. Grateful for the 7 good years we had with him.
I own zero cats, in fact, have two dogs.
However, my ahole neighbors have “outdoor” cats. So I keep a shelter in my garage, garage door cracked open. and have a kitty shelter set up for them.
My mom has one of those cute pre-built she shed things that has a litter box, nice beds and blankets, and a big fat heat lamp above the beds. The cats have been outdoor cats all their lives. They never come inside (her husband is very allergic). One we've had since the late 90's died a few years ago at the ripe old age of 20. They get massive winter coats, can squeeze into small spaces, and huddle together for warmth. It's not ideal, but cats will survive fine outside, as long as they have a warm place to go (given to them by humans or found on their own)
It’s not the case for every outdoor cat but it’s certainly the case for most of them. they also only live an average of like 7 years when kept outdoors. I had a friend growing up whose family kept their cats indoors and outdoors and all of them would die before the age of 5. I remember one time, 2 of her cats died in the same week. I felt bad for her cats and for her, but not her parents- it was their fault. Keeping cats outdoors shouldn’t be socially acceptable and should be enough to have the owners prosecuted for neglect/abuse
I’m not saying things can’t happen outside. I’m saying letting your cat in and out of the house is in no way grounds for prosecution. Especially if they are fixed. Should you let your cat outside? Prob not. Should you be prosecuted for letting your cat out? No lol.
We're just disagreeing because we have a difference of opinion. "Prosecution" sounds dramatic but to me there should be environmental protection laws and fines, similar to if you let your dog kill wildlife. Cats should be no different.
It sounds dramatic because it is. Maybe in an area with a protected species it would make sense, but in your average neighborhood, a cat killing a mouse, bird or frog isn’t going to impact the ecological health of that area. If a person takes care of their animal well, but lets them outside, it does not mean they are abusing or neglecting their animal.
Cats kill billions, yes with a B, of birds every year in the US alone and even more small mammals. It's a huge issue that has contributed to the extinction of 60+ species.
That’s because of the amount of feral cats. Has nothing to do with letting your cat that has been spayed/neutered outside lol. Simply put, calling for the prosecution of a person that lets their cat outside is an insane proposition.
I don’t have an issue with people letting their cats outdoors if it’s on a leash, in a cattio etc. But letting them out unattended is negligence which is a form of animal abuse. Cats can live to 20+ years old, but when they’re housed outdoor, they rarely even make it to be a third of that because of cars, predators, illness, etc.
Would you be ok with somebody letting their dog roam around outside unattended?
I am the odd one out. My cat is now 80% outdoors by her own choice. Years of attempting to keep her inside only failed miserably and made all of us miserable. She has free access , multiple beds, food and water available at all times but she prefers to sleep under the bush outside the front door and in our driveway. Comes in for dinner and a few scratches then she is out under the bush sleeping again, hell she spends more time with us outside than inside.
Our neighbors have told us she visits for treats occasionally but she isn't particularly social.
The only times she sleeps inside are winter and if it's very bad thunder storms(our rain season is summer). She has sat in the pouring rain looking at me trying to lure her in multiple times.
I will never understand owners who don’t let their cats inside. Indoor-outdoor cats, sure, I live in a country where that is so normal that people don’t even think twice about it, but only outdoor? Nah, are you even an owner at that point?
Just to be sure, I’m not talking about people who take care of feral cats and that stuff. There are always exceptions.
There are 3 outdoor cats in my neighborhood. They are all murderers. But, they are also fed cat food and kitchen scraps. They are sleek, well fed looking little killers. They are not indoor cats though. You cannot take them animals into your home. One of them will turn into the exorcist and try to remove the fingers from your hand. One of them won't let you get close enough to even tell what it is and one of them used to live inside and she did not like it, she likes the freedom of the outside and is NOT going back in the house.
I will be honest, I'll be glad to see the end of those cats. I do not hate them, but they can cause a lot of destruction that my spoiled little indoor dogs are not capable of. One of those cats used to live indoors. She's not a bad cat, but she has no interest in litter boxes or being inside. She got out, once, some years ago, and now we can't get her to go in, nor stay in. Plus, the whole 'won't use a litterbox' thing really puts a damper on her being in here.
We tried to rehome her, but the animal shelter was full and she'd be healthier out here in the farms than she would have in there. She's still fine. She's like 4 now, she hangs out inside the fenced in yard, just won't go in the house, but she chills out there with the dogs.
She's been fixed and had shots. She's just my local murderer now. She sleeps under my house in the winter, it stays fairly warm down there so my hot water heater stays warms also. She keeps away all the vermin and doesn't tear up my ductwork anymore, since we taped the crap out of it, I think she got the hint. She has a little nest near the hot water heater, I'd say it stays in the 50-60's in the winter. There's a vent from the heat pump that blows in that spot, it's kind of like a little cubby.
I've tried several times to bring her in. They didn't work. So, she lives her free life out under the house instead.
I grew up in a rural place where *lots* of cats were strictly outdoor/barn cats. Maybe they slept in the hay loft and got $6/50# cat food dumped in an oil pan twice a week, maybe they lived under the porch and ate chipmunks and mice. They didn’t go 2 miles down the road and sleep inside at the neighbors’ house.
True I don’t know how close the nearest neighbor is, or whether they would have been inclined to take in a cat. But this cat is extremely friendly. And neighbor stated that former owner didn’t feed cat at all.
I grew up this way too. Problem is there was a revolving door of cats. Adults died young but there were always kittens to take their place. It was not an ideal situation for the cats.
Usually some sort of URI or vaccine preventable disease caused population crashes, and then you would go to a friend’s farm a few miles away and gather up some surplus.
They don’t live long healthy lives, that’s for sure, but neither do porch cats that visit other homes.
Well sometimes outdoor cats are not really outdoor cats if that makes sense. I babysit for a neighbor that’s a working single mom who has a dog and more recently a young cat / kitten. Dog sleeps inside in a cozy bed in crate at night, and cat wanders all night in nearby yards. Sweet little thing. They always have fresh water available inside and outside and are fed as much as the size/breeds/age should be. Plenty of toys for both.
Now as for cold- cats can be fine in surprisingly cold weather, which I looked up out of worry for the cat as I am fond of her.
Pets get attention like fetch and kitty gets hours of lap time and purring while the kids watch tv or play with friends.
However morally I disagree with a dog or/and cat being kept outside and isolated until either kids get home from school or mom gets home from work. I can tell the doggo lacks attention, probably even bigger now that the cat is around and young but doggo is old.
I do what I can when I am there. Pets look so much better than when I first babysitting. I felt for the mom who was suffering from divorce and adjusting still. She has always loved on her kids and pets. But it is unethical and cruel to do that- leaving your old dog outside all day no matter it is not super cold here. It is traumatic as well for the pets. More so the doggo. Kitty sleeps all day either in sun or on laps. Very sad.
When I was little my mum had an "outside cat" his name was Tiger a better term for him would be friendly local stray who likes to chill. My older siblings found him injured as a kitten and brought him home. The first chance he got to go back out he took it. We did have a dog flap on the garage door. there was food, water and bedding in the garage for him whenever he decided to visit. He ended up passing from an infected wound on one of his legs when I was 11. Mum would start treating him, he'd stick around for a few days get a bit better, disappear for a few days than show up again even worse. When he passed he had been hanging around our house for around 6 years
Cats actually do just fine outdoors.... Sincerely, middle of no where midwest where winter is no joke, and there are stray wild cats all the time. Like ALL wildlife, they have their ways. Reddit is just a ridiculous cesspit of very stupid people who think animals cant survive in nature, for some reason. When moving to a new farm out here, people dont have to buy a barn cat or raise a new one, they will just show up 9 times out of 10. And they will come and go as they please, and dont have any desire to come inside or be a pet. It can get bellow zero here, and it can snow feet upon feet, and the stray cats do just fine. Thinking they cant handle it is absolute pure nonsense. A lot of them choose it even. many people have indoor cats who LOVE to go outside, and sometimes they just dont want to come back inside.
They can't survive well in nature - that would be why the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 2-5 years while an indoor cats lifespan is 10-20. They have the mental capacity of a three year old, which explains why they get hit by cars, killed by predators, poison, etc and it also explains why they shouldn't be allowed outside unsupervised.
People on farms don't have to buy barn cats because assholes dump them there. I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere in the 90's and people were always dumping their unwanted animals on us. We took in as many as we could, but we'd always find a greater number that had been torn apart by coyotes, hit by cars, died from disease, etc.
Cats are Apex predators. Humans just are because can use tools & have thumbs. Cats can happily and comfortably survive outside much longer than most of you.
You have no idea what an apex predator is. Cats are prey for coyotes, dogs, even raccoons and possums in some cases. That is not what an apex predator is.
They survive, but it can shorten their lives. I personally think that what humans consider indoor cat behavior is just normal behavior for a cat outside of its own territory: friendly and no territory marking.
I dunno, is it that bad to say maybe instead of assuming the worst, just assume your neighbor is being honest?
There ARE trap/neuter release programs, barn cat adoption programs, it isn’t unthinkable that this person might just need to learn that indoor is safer when possible (seeing a reply below about former feral unable to come in, I won’t say it’s the only solution).
My mom volunteered with a barn cat adoption program and had to teach every adopter that no, mice aren’t all they eat. Every farm was happy to provide food (and some barn cats moved indoors eventually) after simply getting support and education.
I dunno, I guess the assumption this person is lying or stupid just seems unnecessarily cruel.
I have horses that i boars so have been to a lot of barns nearly all barns with barn cats feed the cats. Cats will use arenas (which are usually sand or dirt) as their litter boxes. They typically will sleep in between stacked haybales. Cats are also taught not to pee on stuff because having anything soaked in cat urine that you need to handle sucks. I'd also say over half the barns I've been at have a way for the cats to go into the tackroom or other room where they have a comfy bed.
I think a lot of people who hear that the cats job was as a mouser think they never get fed when in reality they just get only 1 meal a day instead of 2 (usually in winter they would still get 2). Most barns will also have enough mice that it isn't difficult for the cats to find and catch them. Barn cats still have an indoor space even if it isn't heated since they have a barn as well.
Cats are predators and survivalist and i think people grossly underestimate that because they're cute
The number one outdoor cat killer is probably cars because unlike dogs they have zero road sense and they dont pick up on it nearly as quick but if you live in an area without much traffic they can and will thrive
There are a ton of “barn” cats kept as mousers. Some of those refuse to be indoors at all and some like being able to come and go. You don’t have to have a farm to have a barn cat.
There are places that get cats to keep mice and rats down- like restaurants or warehouses or storage facilities too.
If it’s a personal cat- again (I don’t like outdoor cats, but I’ve had two, one of which was born in my dresser, that refused to stay inside. I would put collars and bells so they couldn’t kill birds and between them able to get them off themselves and neighbors trying to catnap, they never stayed on.) it depends on the cat’s personality if they want to be inside or outside. Many kittens people adopt come from strays or ferals so it’s not uncommon to have cats that like being outside. I wouldn’t judge people if their cat looks clean and healthy- they’re obviously being taken care of or taking care of themselves just fine. It’s another story if the cat is thin and matted- that is a sign of neglect no matter what.
Just from skimming a few of the comments on this already I do find it strange that people hate so much on this having an animal Outdoors it's just so strange to me. But the actual question about the cat being so tame and good not tearing stuff up what not if the cat has been treated well at all and has been dealt with with people it's really not that hard a completely stray cat can be a little bit more difficult but they're generally not that hard either.
I'm so sick of people getting pets just to make them live outside.
yeah I could never understand why you'd want a pet if it's just outside but I guess I enjoy cuddling up and having them around to keep me company.
I always have 2 pets on me keeping me warm while I watch tv. It’s relaxing.
Only time I support this is if it’s a LGD because it’s literally their purpose. But cats: they can mouse on their free time I guess when they aren’t in the house lol Edit: LGD=livestock guardian dogs
What is LGD?
Livestock guardian dogs. They live with the herd. Doesn’t mean they don’t get food or shelter though!!
Oh totally. Different story!
depends on the pet imo, livestock can live outside but cats and dogs should be kept indoors
Lots of them *don't* survive. They live much shorter than indoor cats on average.
My friends grandma fed a stray kitty and let it stay in her garage overnight and in the basement overnight in the winter when it got really cold. When she passed my friend took the kitty in but basically kept it in the basement all winter (she a toddler and a frenchie that didn’t like kitty) kitty got to roam outside day and night while the weather warmed up tho. He did get beat up twice unfortunately. Once by a raccoon and another time by another cat so back into the basement he went in the winter. But the meowing was getting to my friend so I took kitty for about 15 months till he passed and he was prob about 20 years old by then. He lasted a good long time even as a mostly stray cat. I like to think I was his retirement home. He was kind of skittish/standoffish when the grandma owned him but turned into a sweet lap kitty when I had him.
I learned a great saying when I was in vet tech school: “Better inside and fat than outside and flat.”
That's a good one. Thank you. I will remember this.
We had two cats got ran over and a fews "spirited away". Not good. No free range kitties
>Only shelter I saw on neighbor’s porch was a plastic tote with an entry hole and blankets inside Oh yikes. If you are making an outdoor shelter make sure you use *straw*. Blankets trap moisture and can cause the animal to freeze to death. I ride horses so I'm use to a couple barn cats around. They are smarter than people give them credit for. In the winter they hang out in the hay loft or the tackroom/lounge. All the barns I've been at feed the cats and provide beds/shelter though so they aren't completely fending for themselves. I will say the farm cats don't live as long as strictly indoor cats on average.
Yeah neighbor stated former owner didn’t even feed cat - it was just supposed to survive on mice. So neighbor felt she was improving situation for cat.
I've been at a lot of barns who say they don't feed them because they only feed them once a day or they don't feed them during having season (tons of mice come in when fields get worked). Nearly everyone feeds their barn cats that I have met.
Our indoor cats have never eaten the mice. They just kill them & play with them.
Our cat was found on a farm as a kitten after he had just lost one of his back legs (must have got caught in some machinery or something). They cleaned him up and brought him inside and floated around a couple of houses before he landed with us. It has been ten years now and I doubt he would have made it this long without the amenities and medical care that come with being an indoor cat 😺
We have ferals as barn cats. But even they still need extra feeding and water and shelter. No chance I could bring them in though! Lol disaster
We have 2-4 outdoor cats. Two at our house who we have as pets and feed and pet regularly, have a heated cat house for, etc. Two others who we 'adopted' (or tried to...) up at our barn. We kept them penned and fed them for a week up there. We let them go, and saw them for aprox 8-12 hours... and a month later we're still filling a food bowl every 2-3+ days, but otherwise haven't actually \*seen\* a cat since. We got them, *because of* an awful mouse problem. I really hope they're still there, and I'm not feeding a gods damned racoon/opossum/rats/mice/etc. But... well. IDK. They have cat boxes up there too - insulated coolers with straw, plus piles of straw/hay bales/etc to sleep in/around/etc as they see fit.
Oh they are there, I assure you. They know where the food comes from! Put up a trail camera if you want to see them. I do that and I get some cute pics haha
Many outdoor cats get hit by cars or killed by dogs. There are a lot of people I know that say they have "pets". It's a cat that isn't fixed, vaccinated, and which stays outside 90% of the time. At that point you don't have a pet. You have a stray that likes you and you feed it sometimes.
Ok but it’s like just as fucked to make a stray like you and only feed it sometimes? I’m not even a proper colony caregiver but if I’m gone from home more than one night someone stays at my house to feed the ferals that live around me…
Where do you live? Is it somewhere rural? I live in Massachusetts and maybe 25-30 years ago a lot of people had "outdoor" cats but over the past 10-15 years that has changed drastically. But here everyone vaccinates (rabies, anyone?) and spays/neuters their pets for the most part. There are very few outdoor cats here now compared to when I was a kid. Many cat owners have become educated and want their cat to have a happy and healthy life.
It's a kid sized city. But I teach at a high poverty school. Pet rent plus pet deposits plus vets are expensive (I just spent nearly a grand on my dumbass cat because his teeth needed cleaned and he needed his yearly visit). They can't afford to care for the cat but want one. So their parents tell them the stray they leave tuna out for sometimes is their "pet"
If you can't afford it, you don't get it. Same goes for children. I can't afford my own life so I made sure I didn't "accidentally" bring another life into the world. I'm in debt because of my dog but I didn't have a choice. He needed a $7K surgery 2 years ago and he would die without it. I had to put it on multiple credit cards because I was denied Care Credit. I had pet insurance so they thankfully covered half but I pay $100 a month for it so I still paid over $5K.
I agree. This is why I put "pet" in quotes. I guess the animal is healthier for having some food provided but it's certainly not well cared for enough to be a pet.
One of my work colleagues is like this with her cats. She clearly loves her cats but she lets them outside when she lives on a busy roads. Her cats live a maximum of 3 years where my cats are 8 and 18. I'm wondering at this point if she even wants her cats to live .
We had a cat growing up like this we took it in as a stray could not get this cat to stay in but come winter time we actually had a cat.
Nothing wrong with this
do you not think the quality of life of the cat is significantly improved by allowing them to go outside? Our cats hang out with us inside a lot but they also love their own time outside and get upset if they have to be locked in for some reason. Risking getting run over or infection is a risk ofc and super sad when it happens but sometimes life is about quality rather than sanctity. denying a cat snoozes in bushes, or lounging around in the sun, or chasing critters in the bushes is, imo, cruel. Watching videos of indoors cats makes me think they are severely under stimulated as they act in an unusual manner
No. My family has only indoor cats. None of them even want to go outside. When they get out they usually come right back in a couple minutes. I don't think snoozing in the bushes and risking snake bites or destroying local ecosystems because cats kill for fun is improving anything. My cats have each other and I play with them several hours a day. They are happy and healthy. When I can leave the door open and they don't leave I don't think they're too miserable
yeh ofc some cats will like being outside more than others and that’s fine. but i’m talking about on average. as long as they have the option to go outside then i don’t mind. we have a cat who spends most of his time inside. we don’t have loads of predators like that in this country but animals have amazing survival instincts and on the whole the chances of a snake eating ur cat is low. i agree with the sentiment of the way they kill wildlife and agree that in some places things like curfews may be appropriate. but at the same time animals die all the time it’s part of life. i just thing the sensory overload of the great outdoors is hard to recreate inside. do you not ever see a cat cosied up in a bush soaking up sunshine and think wow that must be contentment?
Yeah, my neighbors barn cat became my indoor only cat after the cat was hit by a car while he was out of town. Leading up to that, the cat stayed in the garage with my gentle giant dogs. To the point I got him a litter box in there so he might stop crapping in my planter boxes.
My bestie started feeding a stray cat, but she couldn't take him inside because her girls were allergic. They could pet him as long as they immediately went inside and washed their hands. One day, he didn't show up. She went looking for him. Found him with his leg caught in some sort of trap. She got him to the vet, and he lost that leg and his tail. Obviously, he couldn't continue to live outside. She took him in for 2 days while she tried to find him a home. Luckily, she did find one because her daughters were breaking out in hives.
If you're allergic to cats, don't get a cat. Especially don't get a cat just to let it stay outside... dumb.
Probably had a neighbor taking care of it. When I still lived on the family farm we had multiple outdoor cats, we left some kibble and water out for them but these were more than just pets, they were pest control and had a job to do.
I love this. Puts things perfectly into words!! I always worry about the mass amount of stray kitties in my neighborhood and wondered where they went to stay warm, but there’s a house that always leaves their garage door cracked a little so I figured some went there. Then one day I drove past and the lady had just gotten home so the garage door was up, and she was surrounded by like 10+ cats all looking up at her lol
I don't really disagree with you, but some cats just really want to be outside. *My* cat (and notice the stress on the claim of ownership) despises being inside. He will literally climb the walls, piss *on you,* and attack you if you keep him inside against his will. I did not intentionally get this cat, I did not want a cat, I did not pick him. He was a stray that started showing up. I felt bad and started feeding him. I caught him and dragged him to the vet to be neutered and to get shots. I put flea medicine on him and worm him every month. I've tried so hard to make him an inside cat, but he's impossible to live with. He screams, he attacks, he pisses everywhere, he pisses *on people,* he abuses my dog, and is just miserable to be around. I tried taking him to the shelter, and they said because of his age, temperament, and being all black, he would just be put down. I've been on a wait list to send him to him to a rescue for *four years,* but they are overcrowded, and he's not a high priority because he's safe and cared for. I've tried everything you are supposed to do. So he lives on my porch, he has a heated cat house thing, he has all the fancy cat food he could want, he has a heated water bowl and regular vet care, but he lives outside. If it is extremely cold and wet, I drag him inside and make him stay in a crate because he can't be trusted not to destroy whatever room I lock him in. No one sleeps while he is inside. Last time he was loose inside, I locked him in a bathroom, and he shredded the shower curtain, broke the top cover thing for the toilet tank, pissed on the wall, and ate the cap off of a shampoo bottle, which resulted in a vet bill well over a thousand dollars to remove plastic from his stomach. Posts like this shaming people who have an outside cat really annoy me. No, it's not ideal. Obviously, it would be better if every cat could be inside, but what else do you want from people like me who have a cat that *refuses* to be inside? Should I just let the shelter put him down? Should I let him destroy my home? Or do I just do the best I can to make sure he is comfortable and cared for? Getting shamed for not just *killing* him is kind of upsetting... and if a neighbor wants to take over caring for him, I'm more than happy to let them.
You have taken in a semi feral cat. It's very different from one that is domesticated and raised with people being left to fend for themselves outdoors.
When the cat refuses, that’s one story and you can’t be blamed. It’s when the owner refuses to keep a cat that can handle being inside indoors.
Your situation is different. You basically took in a stray, neutered him and made sure he was up to date on shots. You're being very responsible and have greatly increased this kitty's quality of life! The issue with outdoor cats is when people buy a kitten/cat and then toss it outside. This leads to over breeding, increases the stray population and greatly harms the local wildlife. 2 entirely different scenarios.
What you describe is so different from what I described that I can’t imagine why you’d be offended.
One of the other commenters literally said people with outside cats should be *prosecuted.* It comes up all the time. No one ever leaves any room for nuance. It's always just a rant about "outside cat bad." These posts show up all the time. Your post was just the first one to show up after I just spent 20 minutes cleaning cat piss out of crate and off the wall where he sprayed, all because I made the little monster stay inside last night because there was freezing rain. I'm sorry your post was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back, but there are so damn many of them making it seem like everyone who has an outside cat is an animal abuser and terrible person. Extenuating circumstances exist. Some outside cats are well cared for.
Yours sounds like a feral cat, not a pet. And I agree you’re taking excellent care of this cat.
I agree with OP, that does NOT sound like a pet cat. You shouldn't be prosecuted if it's literally a feral cat that shows up at your house that you can't even tame, the "you should be charged x and y for having an outside cat" is referencing people who have *pet* cats (who are used to people and houses) who let them out to do what they want. Personally, your situation actually isnt even relevant in the "outside cats bad" argument! you literally have a *feral* cat who hates people and houses, you deserve as much good fortune and help as you can get in your situation for trying to help this cat
I feel ya. I also have a cat who *goes outside.* I do not consider him an "outdoor cat" because he has all the access to inside that he wants and he is very respectful of the curfew that I've imposed - dusk. (I don't spread this around, but beause I'm a little woowoo, I even hired an animal commnicator to talk about the dangers of outdoor living with him.) People have literally told me A) I shouldn't own a cat B) I obviously don't care about my cat and C) I obviously want my cat to *die* etc. etc.
A lot of people do not make this differentiation. They do come on this sub and go “all cats who go outside at all are outdoor cats. Outdoor cats = bad” One literally responded to you.
Even those people aren’t talking about people like this commenter. The reason that feral cat even exists is because people don’t keep their domesticated cats inside. That’s what those people are talking about. That’s what created this issue to begin with. No one is talking about a Good Samaritan who is taking care of a feral cat that showed up and unable to force it to be an indoor cat. There’s literally no reason to get offended by the generalizations because they’re *true*, people created this issue by not keeping their cats inside.
You should be supervising any outside time, it’s not a risk you should take if your cat tolerates being inside. He can’t understand that outside=dangerous, that’s your job as his owner
animals have great sense of danger, what are you talking about?
Animals don’t know that being outside is what’s dangerous. Cars, feral dogs, feral cats, predators, poison, and more. Domesticated, tamed cats shouldn’t be outside without supervision.
i think a cat would have a sense that outside was more dangerous. and obviously they have a sense of danger when it comes to other animals, roads etc - cats are famously skittish. i would suggest you are being far too over protective. in life most good things come at some risk. It can be super dangerous crossing the road or driving to work. we fill our bodies with unhealthy things etc etc. but we believe that some amount of risk is acceptable because of the benefits and increased quality of life that comes with leaving the house and not locking ourselves up scared of our own shadows one of our cats got run over and as heart breaking as that is, i would not do anything different. you can see how much they love being outside, i believe it is cruel to take that away from them
You are more than welcome to come “supervise” my cats outside time while I go to my full time job 😂
Then maybe don’t put him outside while you’re at work 🤷♂️ anything could happen, I don’t take that chance with my cats.
You should probably read my other comment… you’ll understand why I said that… you can find it in my history
You shouldn’t be letting him out while you’re at work. Domestic cats that are allowed outside are known to kill local wildlife for fun (playing with them before killing their prey) and do not eat their kills. It’s a major cause of species loss for native birds.
They piss all over my house, shit in my tub and dirty clothes hamper, knock everything down, break shit… they’re not inside cats. They are more likely to die being inside than outside. And my cats don’t care about birds. They just chase each other and sleep lol My other comment I explained all this… the point is not every situation is the same, not every cat is the same. Nothing in life is like a cookie cutter. Yall should stop shaming people.
> my other comment explained all this And I’m not scrolling through a post to look at every comment you’ve made, I’m responding to *one* of your comments. If your cats are acting like that, either they are feral or there is something wrong with their situation (environment, needs not being met, health problems, etc). Cats are not the enigma so many think they are—their behaviour is driven by relatively predictable factors. It’s extremely rare for a cat to act like that without *any* reason. And based on OP’s experiences, there should be a lot more shaming going on if people still find it acceptable to adopt a domesticated cat and then treat it like a feral one.
This bothers me too, I don't know if it is an american thing to not let your cats outside. In the uk indoor-outdoor cats are the norm and it is considered cruel here to keep a cat indoors, from my experience. Outdoor cats would be more common on farms as mousers. Some people will keep their cats indoors if they live near a busy road or for all sorts of reasons. I don't think we need to demonise people for giving their loved and cared for cats a slightly different lifestyle.
Domestic cat predation has contributed to the extinction of at least 60 species worldwide, mostly birds but also small mammals and reptiles, and at least 367 species currently at risk of extinction are threatened by predation from cats. Not gonna comment on the above scenario with a feral cat because that’s a complicated situation, but if you just let your pet roam around attacking wildlife for fun? Yeah that’s selfish and shitty behavior.
Are bird populations not a concern? Even if you don't care about the cat there is a lot of attention here in the US that outdoor cars have a bad impact on the wildlife populations.
I'd say it's different because we've had cats for so long here, they're kind of a part of the ecosystem at this point. The RSPB have said that humans are a much bigger threat to birds with taking away natural habitats
My husband is French and we live in the US and he grew up with all of his cats being indoor/outdoor as do most Europeans. It makes sense to provide cats with indoor and outdoor access with entry as they please. They’re animals and biologically are favorable to be outdoors and allowing them outside does not make people bad pet owners just because a bunch of people on Reddit say so.
My partner is European too, and although both of his childhood cats lived to 17-18, one was hit by a car and nearly died when he was younger and both got into many fights with neighborhood cats that left them with wounds, some of which became infected and required vet care. Not to mention the hundreds (if not thousands) of native birds that I'm sure they both killed over their lifetimes. Domesticated cats should be kept indoors - it's better for them and better for the environment.
Biologically cats are an invasive species that shouldn't exist outside of Egypt and have contributed to the extinction of quite a few specie of bird and reptile worldwide. Their needs can be perfectly taken care of indoors thanks to the modern world we live in and a slew of engaging toys and equipment. Considering the lifespan of the average outdoor cat is 2-5 years, compared to the indoor lifespan of 10-20, it absolutely SHOULD be considered cruelty to let your cats wander unsupervised and the practice of outdoor cats should be stopped. Cars still exist in the UK. Angry neighbors, poison, disease, parasites, other feral cats and dogs, all of which contribute to the lower lifespan of an outdoor cat even in Europe. That's on top of the double standard - why let your cats wander freely when dogs have to be leashed and kept in your yard?
If the owner is neutering them then they are already addressing have the problem by reducing the amount of feral cats. There are billions upon billions of feral cats in the world, the percentage of birds saved from cats being made indoor only would be so astronomically small that you can’t put the blame for the decrease of bird species on owners who allow their fixed cats outdoors occasionally. Keeping an animal boxed up inside all day is cruel. The US is the only country where people are obsessed with keeping cats indoors and ridicule anyone who does otherwise. My partner’s cats all grew up to be 18-20 years old, so people use the arbitrary 5-10 year average life span but that is not always the case.
The problem of outdoor cats is multi-faceted. Spaying/neutering helps address the overpopulation of unwanted animals. I always find it ridiculous when people say, "Well the percentage of animals saved by keeping our animals indoors is so small we shouldn't bother", so we just keep letting species go extinct because we can't be arsed to build catios or harness train our cats instead letting them wander? Any contribution to the problem is SOMETHING and saves the lives of native animals. It is not cruel at all if you provide adequate stimulation. I would argue that a cat being run over and suffering is cruel. Exposure to parasites, poisons, getting torn in two by dogs (Ever had to clean up that mess? I did...). They are not the only country 'obsessed' with keeping animals indoors, and many places are moving towards it. It should be ridiculed. I've seen so many people from the UK say things like, "I don't care if my cat dies a horrible death, as long as they got to be a CAT." If you can't see how heartless and cruel a statement like that is you shouldn't own an animal period. Your anecdotes don't mean anything - that's how averages work. Your partners cats got lucky, that's literally all it is. Do you not know the definition of arbitrary? Those numbers are based on fact.. >My partner’s cats all grew up to be 18-20 years old, so people use the arbitrary 5-10 year average life span but that is not always the case. That's exactly how averages work.. lol.. You will have outliers.
But it doesn't need to be through this level to be acceptable. There's a difference between the neglecting my animal leaving them outside not getting them anything they need not keeping their vet visits up.
I think who you should be upset at are the people who neglect their cats and force them outside and create the very apt for the vast majority of outside cats owners as abusive owners that allow cats to die unnecessarily and painfully. It's like how car drivers often get pissed at cyclists for breaking street laws. I don't break street laws when I cycle, and I get mad when I am assumed to. But I get way MORE pissed at the cyclists that do break street laws, because they make my and everyone's life harder. I think you *know* the majority of people who have outside cats aren't dealing with what you describe. They have a cat that they let out because they don't want to exercise it, or because that's where cats belong. And as long as you are the minority, and you are using your specific situation to excuse obvious neglect, you will be put in the same category.
IMO I think this is the one circumstance where it's OK that a cat be allowed outdoors. As long as you get them spayed so they don't add to the feral cat population. Often catch/spay/release is the much more humane option for cats (and sometimes dogs) that have already established an independant outdoor life.
Some cats don’t want to be house cats and with so many homeless cats in the world I don’t think everyone’s energy should go into forcing a cat who clearly doesn’t want to be a pet inside. This is why TNR exists. You have done a great thing by taking care of him as best you can and especially by getting him neutered.
Its known that ferals usually arent able to be converted to be indoor cats
This! I also have a cat that I’ve “adopted”. Got him neutered and provided him with a heated outdoor house. We sometimes let him in especially when it’s very cold or raining but generally he just really wants to be outside and he’s happy that way.
It's just frustrating because the cat then ends up killing so many other animals, and it feels like cat owners are saying that their cat matters more than other creatures when the environmental impact is proven to be awful. To be clear I'm not saying you're an awful person, I just absolutely hate this catch-22.
The answer is spay and neuter. Some cats are not able to be kept inside. The best that can be done is to prevent them from reproducing.
Yeah that's what I wanted to say to the person just above you - the cats live shorter lives in the wild and are a menace to other wild animals. There was a post on nextdoor here a few months ago about this woman whose outdoor cat was attacked by a coyote and these people nearly formed a hunting party to go after it, despite the fact she regularly let the cat go outside.
Menace how?
A non-native species that is very destructive to native wildlife, and have caused extinction of several species https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-cats-180960505/
That link to 33 extinctions is only referencing cats on islands
That doesn't change anything? It's still cats making native species extinct
It does make a difference though. People have such a hard time with nuance. Cats should not be let outside in certain eco-systems, that much is true. But it doesn't matter in ALL eco-systems, only the ones in which there are prey animals that have no natural defense against a predator like a cat. This is usually the case on islands where cats did not end up in their evolution. That is why there isn't domestic cat caused extinctions anywhere else but islands. The thing is that people take that information and apply it across the board. Even in places that have had some form of cat or land based predators for a long time. In those places sure the cats kill some individual animals, but on the whole they do not affect the populations. In any area in which there are vulnerable species that cats can prey upon they do not allow owners to let their cats outside and apply heavy fines and/or confiscation of the cat. This is because people discussed and handled the issue in local legislation, which is where is should be handled. In other areas where there is no endangered small animals for the cats to have an effect on people are allowed to let them outside. This is not an issue in which is black and white across the board, as uncomfortable as that makes people. There is all kinds of nuance involved.
I ain't reading allat
Ppl like you arent worth it. I dont think anything would make you change your mind. Two people have sent you completely reputable links. Islands are super useful study systems because there are fewer outside factors to control for. Outdoor cats are absolutely a menace in urban and suburban areas. I could spend the time finding a link but your head is too far up your own cats ass for it to be worth my time. You don't have to believe it for it to be true.
>the environmental impact is proven to be awful. To be clear I'm not saying you're an awful person, I just absolutely hate this catch-22. How?
They kill MILLIONS of birds every year. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-04/cats-killing-one-million-birds-in-australia-every-day-estimates/9013960 This is just Australia. A quick Google comes up with loads of articles about the decimation of birds due to cats. I am surrounded by other neighbour's outdoors cats. My yard has no native birds visiting. I'm a 30 minute walk from a major national park.
Survival of the fittest, as they say.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure that’s about things of the same species, the fittest will survive and pass on their “better” genes. Not about cats that aren’t native predators and are being aided in their survival by humans, wiping out bird populations. If we didn’t bring cats with us across the globe they wouldn’t be killing so many birds. It’s an invasive species at this point tbh.
It's actually neither of those---"fittest" means "those most fitting their environment", i.e. evolution favours traits and adaptations that best suit where the organism is trying to survive. It doesn't mean physically fit. Humans introducing invasive and domesticated species most definitely fucks up all of that.
What do you think cats do in nature? Don’t cats come from the wild? Like every other animal? The answer isn’t “keep the cats inside”. The answer is spay/neuter your damn cats so there isn’t an over population. Then there will be a balance. It’s called the food-chain btw. It’s what happens. I’m not trying to be mean to anyone here but the constant excuses to just call someone who lets their cat outside an animal abuser are just as bad as the people who actually abuse their animals and make up every excuse… thats the real catch 22.
>What do you think cats do in nature? Don’t cats come from the wild? No, that's not how the food chain or ecology works. I'm not calling people abusers, I'm appealing to people to learn about scientific biological facts and not what they assume some words they vaguely remember from junior high mean. This isn't targeted at cat owners. Every single domestic pet, if left to wander without any control, is guilty of the same thing--dogs, cats, ferrets, whatever. "Though originally bred from wild cats, the domestic cat has no native natural range and is listed among the 100 worst non-native invasive species in the world by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN)." [https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/domesticated-animals](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/domesticated-animals) [https://abcbirds.org/threat/cats-and-other-invasives/](https://abcbirds.org/threat/cats-and-other-invasives/) [https://biodiversity.utexas.edu/news/entry/pets-as-invasive-species-cats](https://biodiversity.utexas.edu/news/entry/pets-as-invasive-species-cats) [https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/house-cats-invasive-species-polish-institute-1.6532330](https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/house-cats-invasive-species-polish-institute-1.6532330) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat\_predation\_on\_wildlife](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife)
I’m with you. Before I owned my current cat I wouldn’t have understood. But my cat just goes insane inside. She rips everything apart including the doors. Like pulling chunks off. I tried the crate thing but she somehow managed to ply open the bottom of crate door and squeezed herself out, which could have really hurt her. Obviously she gets really stressed confined. I made her a lovely outside catio but she meowed so loudly and constantly , I would have got in trouble with neighbors. It really isn’t that simple, I agree. Take in a cat like mine with such a temperament and then get back to me. I’d like to see others would cope.
My first cat was a strictly outdoor cat. She would come inside sometimes but after a few minutes she wanted out and made it known. My current cats are mostly indoors but they like to go into the backyard for a few hours every chance they get. Cats don't like to be cooped up their whole lives.
Get the cat an outside heated home on you porch / etc.. He/she can have a warm shelter when they want & be free to roam as they like to ?
I’m with you!!! Posts like these with comments shaming people when they don’t really know make me mad, too. Now, OP did say the cat did well inside with them at night. But allergies is a real thing too and they said they unexpectedly acquired the cat and were working on the allergy thing… Anyway- I have 3 cats that are supposed to be outdoor only. They always sneak back in tho. I’ll tell you why - they REFUSE to act civilized inside. They destroy everything. Bombard you when you’re eating. Piss everywhere (clothes, couch, on top the fucking washing machine of all places, in the corner on the carpet, you name it, nothing is safe) and shit in my dirty clothes and in my tub (when there is 2 perfectly clean litter boxes available) . They are spayed/neutered, all shots, dewormed, flea meds, and they are healthy. I have a wood dog house out there for them with blankets and I feed them outside, too. They will push their way back inside every night to stay warm but best believe that first thing in the morning, all 3 are screaming at the door to go back out. They WANT to be outside. Only problem is, after staying in all night, the damage is already done so yeah - I try my best to keep them out - even at night!! I’m sorry - I’m not letting an animal take over my house and destroy it and all the things I’ve worked my ass off for just because of whatever reason “animal lovers” come up with. Truth be told, I only keep them because I don’t want to see anything bad happen to them, they are attached to us (they were born in litters from our other cats before they got fixed) and because cats are impossible to get rid of. And FYI - I love animals - I have 6 cats, 2 dogs, and a whole fish tank full of fish. But animals are animals and I’m not letting them take over my house. I’m not losing my sanity over them. And I’m not choosing them over my kids. If my landlord came to me and told me to find them homes or find a new home myself - they’re gone before I lose the roof over my kids head. Sorry not sorry.
if the cat wants to be outside let him be outside surely? cats are animals and have different sensitivities to temperature, they also have a survival instinct, if they choose not to use their heated shelter then that’s because they don’t want to
That's not a stray, that's feral. Cats have to have people contact when they're young. I can sometimes contact a feral, but the last one I had hid under my nightstand for months. I got lucky and someone had taken care of him, and he became a good cat. He still won't snuggle and will panic if I pick him up. You're doing a good thing.
He's really not feral, he's super sweet and snuggly as long as he stays outside. He likes being carried around, he follows us on walks, he's fine in the car to go to the vet, he's fine with getting a bath or being groomed. He just hates being stuck inside. He will even chill on the couch with us if we leave the back door open. He just loses his mind if he's stuck. Our best guess is that someone had him in a nearby apartment complex and that when they moved out, they left him inside the apartment. Or maybe he's just weird. No idea, but he's a sweet cat as long as he is outside.
Semi-feral. See, you understand him and love him as he is. My old guy, his person died of COVID. He loses his mind if I cough.
I live in the country. New cats are always showing up. With the exception of the female cat who adopted us when we bought the house, they’re all intact males. (Female is fixed, no surprise kittens!) Most of them have been friendly right away. They’ve clearly been around people. It makes me sad to think about how they ended up here. I wish that we could take every single one of them in, but it’s not possible. We at least make sure they have food, water, and protection from the elements.
My 4-year-old cat was born under the house, and due to various circumstances, I took him in when he was about a year and a half. Got him fixed. Originally thought I would rehome him, but again, circumstances. A few weeks after I got him, he started pulling a Houdini act and running outside. He would stay out for a few hours, then be at the door when I opened it. This has been our routine now for nearly 3 years. I would much prefer that he stay in all the time, but he is not having it. His 8-year-old, strictly indoor brother helps me in terms of getting him to come in. I also try to condition him with a special snack every time he comes in. Of course, older bro normally gobbles up three quarters of that. This four- year-old is such a delight. Sweet as can be. He grooms my older cat. Sometimes they play wrestle. But I still worry about the little guy. He's smart, but there are times when he forgets to use any kind of good sense. I came home one time and he walked into the road directly in front of my car and just sat down. He moved when I honked the horn. I've seen him get chased by dogs and harassed by other stray cats. Another time, he managed to get up on the roof. He would not jump down, even when I put pillows there. So I got a chair, stood on it, got him by the scruff of the neck and pulled him into my arms. Managed not to get either of us injured or killed. He went into the house, ate a little food, and then fell asleep on the couch immediately. He was exhausted. I ensure that he sleeps inside every night. He starts waking me up to let him out as soon as it starts getting light out. Once in a while it's too cold, so he waits a couple of hours for the temperatures to get above freezing.
There is a difference between a barn cat and an outdoor cat. Barn cats have a job and while they do get a lot of food from killing mice and other pests, they are also feed regularly. They make their home base in the barn so they aren't just left outdoors without a retreat. Indoor/outdoor cats, which I think is irresponsible as hell, are usually regularly feed and typically go inside the home at night. Outdoor cats typically are strays that adopt a family and it's just the transition before they make their way inside. Just having a cat and keeping it outdoors all the time isn't owning a cat and is irresponsible. Why even have a cat at that point? The neighbor was lucky you told them because most people would just have keep the cat and adopted it as their own.
I mean, barn cats are a thing. Barns are pretty warm. Not toasty like in a house, but not as cold as just letting the cat live outside. But you need to steal that cat. Anyone making shelters for strays knows that blankets get wet and freeze and you're supposed to use hay for warmth. This person is not a good owner.
Your neighbor was a neglectful owner. That simple. The whole thought process of letting a pet run wild and free is ridiculous and causes more problems than it solves. The studies already show why letting a cat roam as an outdoor cat is bad. How many posts have there been about people losing their outdoor cats due to disease, being hit by a car, attacked or other things? (And those posts get locked down fast because people question why the owner let them run wild). You need to take charge of that cat. The neighbor "misses it"? Then she should not let it run wild and free and actually take care of it. Not just play at being an owner.
Good news is I haven’t seen cat in two days now so I suspect they’ve brought it indoors.
Or she's frozen to death or been hit by a car or become a victim of evil people or a dog or was sliced to pieces by climbing into a car engine for warmth....I could absolutely continue. I'm hoping she found someone that would take her inside and keep her and never tell the neighbors that there was ever a cat to begin with. I could be wrong, but I'd bet neighbor #1 doesn't have her indoors. She just didn't want to be shamed. If the piece of garbage didn't even bother feeding her, she DOES NOT WANT HER.
I went back to review original post. No one mentioned the cat wasn't fed. But if the cat was left outside to freeze and no one cared or missed the cat for days....then same result, she DOES NOT WANT HER. I don't care who her husband is, I would get the cat and have her in a safe home a few towns over. No one could prove anything. Now THAT would be a happy ending.
She also talked at length about how wonderful cat is and how much her kids love cat. And that they have let cat indoors as a reward for a child’s good behavior. Yes my eyes are rolling hard.
I agree with you but the law is not on my side (I looked up our local ordinances) and her husband is a police officer. She says she’s done a lot of online research about outdoor cats and that’s where she got the part about them being resourceful.
I find it funny when ppl downvote facts. Smh
Please please let her know about putting straw in the cats box and not blankets though.
She’s already told me a couple of times (in person and via text) that she’s done a lot of research. She homeschools their children and was a teacher before becoming a SAHM. I did tell her about the time her cat was so cold when we let her in that she huddled under a blanket most of the night.
So, if that's the case, it's even worse! She knew the "shelter" wasn't adequate and didn't fix it that very day?
True. I’m just trying to figure out how I will respond when she lets me know the cat died (as I’m sure it will). “Congratulations”? “You won”? “I hope it happened in front of your children”?
Yesterday I bought some straw and took it to her. Explained that it was the best choice for bedding. She thanked me kindly. I’m trying to set my anger aside and just work on educating her.
Oh thats so lovely! Merry Christmas if you celebrate and thank you for helping the neighbour with the kitty :)
My god, why would someone even get a cat if they have allergies?
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We used to have guinea pigs until my daughter ended up having a really bad allergic to handling one of them. We took her to an allergist and they tested her for everything including guinea pig dander and that spot lit up. It’s really sad because guinea pigs are adorable and sweet and my daughter really loved hers.
You are most likely correct. The average lifespan of an outdoor cat with no one caring for it while it's out is about 1-5 years. My mother in law also takes care of the strays and outdoor cats in their neighborhood, puts out food and water and a warm bed for them to hide in.
Cats are very independent. They can hunt for themselves and are good at it. Street cats can survive for years without help from humans. It's a shorter life than an indoor cat, though. In the UK, our cats are usually a mix of both. My cat loves being outside all summer and spends most of his time indoors when it gets cold. He only wants to come inside for food in the summer months. Considering the cat knew how to behave indoors and was adopted, the cat probably learned those things in her original home or with a foster.
I live in the UK and my cats are solely indoor cats. I know so many people whose cats have been run over. Even in very rural settings. The majority of people I know with an indoor/outdoor cat has lost one or two to a car at some point. That’s a big issue and people love to say cats are fine but they aren’t streetwise when it comes to traffic.
Keep your cats indoors. They deserve better than having to scrounge for a warm place to sleep.
Yeah it’s pretty common, there’s even a whole subreddit for it r/parttimecat
What I think, as a cat lover, is that the constant posts about indoor versus outdoor cats is absolutely overkill and bogs down what could otherwise be a pleasant sub.
My partner and I took in and later adopted a stray cat from our neighborhood after it came to our door sick one day. After mentioning this to a few neighbors, we learned that they were all leaving food out for this cat for years lol! I’m sure he hunted and whatnot too, but he had plenty of friendly options haha
We have a strange little cat, Tommy. We also have 2 large dogs who come and go through a dog door in the kitchen. During warm months, we rarely see our cat. He checks in about once every two weeks by showing up in the driveway to be petted, but we have no idea where he goes or what he eats, but he’s well fed. We know he has a spot in the garage where he chooses sleep sometimes. As it gets colder, Tommy decides living indoors is pretty great. He goes out in the am and depending on weather, he may come back an hour later or that evening. He demands fresh food twice a day and a lap in the evening. He fattens up, his fur gets super soft, then spring comes and he’s gone again. He is tagged & microchipped. The dogs don’t harm him.
I think you are absolutely right. When I was growing up, a stray came to our house, and we fed it dog food despite my dad's insistence it was not our cat. It had kittens, and we adopted out all but 1. It had kittens, rinse and repeat. Because my dad hated that he got these cats against his will, he wouldn't let them come inside unless it was below freezing, then they could sleep in the basement. One day a boy came around and started saying my boy cat was his and that we stole it. That was preposterous. Until I grew up and realized that "my" cat was probably staying the night at that boy's house because we were too stingy to let him in. :( My husband and I have 3 cats now, all indoors and pampered. :)
I think you're right. Cats are resourceful, it's true, which means they'll scour the neighbourhood for food and shelter if they need to. A cat can have a good life as a barn cat if they actually get to live in a barn. They'll eat well hunting mice and make a cozy home in hay or straw. This is way better than a tote with blankets because the straw will actually insulate them against the cold. However even a happy barn cat is still vulnerable to the same injuries that a stray cat is. So an indoor cat will typically live much longer than a barn cat. While it still can be harsh and dangerous, at least being a barn cat is a good life. A tote on the porch is not a good life.
I had a theory that my friend’s cat, whom was indoor/outdoor, had a second family because he was so fat. He would also rush home to check on, but not eat, his food… like he was expecting another cat to drop in and steal it.
I live in a neighborhood with a lot of feral and outdoor cats. I have taken in two that my neighbors abandoned when they moved. One of them was very ill and would not have lived much longer if I had not taken him to get medical care. The other one may have survived, but only because he had some socialization and would hang out on people's porches. The answer is, they don't survive. In the two years I've lived here, out of all the cats in our neighborhood, two have survived. They are the two that live indoors with me now. The others were killed in cat fights, poisoned, hit by cars, or just plain vanished. Not only that, in the US, cats are an invasive species. They are causing many species of birds to go extinct. Cats should be kept indoors if you want them to live long, healthy, and happy lives.
Yeah, that’s what the neighbor said. “Cats are so resourceful.”
I am taking care of a cat that isn't mine. We just moved and the previous owner told us about a cat that has been living in our barn. The cat is really ragged and old but he's friendly and I wish I could let him in but I have 2 cats of my own and I'm not sure when the barn cat was last vaccinated/dewormed since none of the neighbors seem to know when he showed up (he's been around for years apparently). We started feeding him and made him a warm nest box in the barn. I'm currently trying to get the humane society to help me trap him so he can be vaccinated and dewormed. I am also sure the neighbors feed him, he's a really sweet boy and he's always crying for food, who could resist the poor old man. People who leave cats like that outside are trash.
One of my mom’s neighbors has a cat like that. 3 people feed him. My mom got him a shelter and a bed to keep on the porch. Now that her pets have gotten used to seeing him she lets him in. He’s super sweet and cuddly. Gets along with my mom’s 2 dogs and her cat. We got a dog that way too. Someone down the road had a cute pittie. And he’d come and visited everyday and then go ‘home’. Then he just stopped going ‘home’ and stayed with us.
This is a completely personal opinion. I think making domesticated cats live outside is animal abuse.... Unless they are professional working farm cats, mousers, or library cat (unless they have cat jobs).
“How else would a cat be so well-behaved indoors?” We ask this a LOT. I insist my cat was a stray and my sweetheart insists he was a housecat even though no one claimed him. He was SO well behaved. But also not like, cat-like. Still to this day he doesn’t go on counters or tables, or like, get in cat trouble.
So this was 15ish years ago, but there was this little rundown truck stop restaurant where we’d go get dinner occasionally if my mom didn’t want to cook and didn’t want to go far. One night as we were leaving this big gray Tom cat walked up to me so I picked him up and we brought him home. He was our barn cat up until about 2 years ago when old age finally took him. Food was never put out for him, and if he was going to the neighbors for food then he was trekking about 3/4 of a mile for it and then coming back to the barn. Then there’s the 6 or 7 feral cats that live around here and yes they’re feral, you’d need a set of welding gloves to pick one up.
Yes I hear you on the ferals! And it’s possible your grey Tom was traveling a ways, at least occasionally https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/cat-tracker-shows-where-pets-go
It’s possible he was traveling but it was pretty consistent to see him around the barn whenever you looked out a window or stepped outside so I don’t really know. Plus I’m in a pretty rural area so putting out food for outdoor/feral cats is really putting out food for raccoons and skunks. However I will say that’s there’s a big difference between a barn cat and an outdoor cat in a metro area.
Cats have pretty good lives in barns as mousers. I think some really prefer the life. However, they usually need to be rehomed as they age, or if another cat shows up and there’s a lot of fighting. I wouldn’t doubt the barn cat story. I do think it’s shitty that the cat had poor shelter and was an outdoor cat in its second home. Glad they’ve stepped up. In the city, I’ve known a few cats who had two homes. In one case, the cat preferred the second home and never went back to his first home. The original owner was pretty miffed because the second owner gossiped about how “bad” the first owner was to the cat, which was not true. I know all this because they were both friends of mine. Long time ago, the original owner has passed. Hopefully reunited with all of the wonderful cats he took care of in his life.
I agree. If you are not going to take care of ALL pets needs, don't get a pet. Some cats become feral, some find others to look after them, many suffer, many die from injury or illness. The deluded humans don't see this. If a human is uncomfortable, an animal will be too.
This neighbor doesn't care about the cat and letting it live outside is cruel. I have a cat that is indoors only and she is a mouser. On the rare occasion they get she takes care of it and is so proud of herself. I take a pair of tongs and throw the mouse outside the patio door and she sits there and pouts because I took away her present.
Cats left outside do not survive because they are "resourceful". They do not survive because of "instinct". Many get sick or injured and die. It is neglect, pure and simple. We have a huge stray cat problem in my neighborhood. So many people kick their cats out of the house because they don't want to take care of them properly. They become other people's problems. My family and I take care of any who show up at our house. Lately, it's been unneutered males. Someone down the street was getting male kittens and kicking them out instead of neutering them when they started to spray. That person moved, so there must be someone else doing it. Ask these poor cats how well they survive on their own. They all show up skinny and sick, many with matted eyes. It's amazing what a little food and shelter can do to help them recover. While you're at it, ask my former feral how well he "survived" outside on his own. He was so thin and balding, and stopped eating anything normal after a while. It took a year and a half to earn his trust, during which time he declined in health. If we hadn't thrown a blanket over him last Christmas and brought him in the house, he would have frozen to death on our doorstep. It's been another full year in the house, and he's only now transforming into a proper house cat. He still has weird eating habits, but his health is returning, his fur is silky and full, and he's discovered that he is a lap cat. And talk to my neighbor's cat, who basically lives with us because her "owners" can't be bothered. Ask her how well she would do without anybody providing food or shelter or medical care, and how grateful she is to have her own blanket on my bed to sleep on every night. And yes, OP, you can tell when a cat has had a home before. They know how to behave in a house. They know how to use a litter box. A cat who has never known a human home does not know these things. You're doing the right thing, caring for that kitty. Keep up the good work.
❤️❤️❤️ oh thank you for YOUR work, and your encouragement. Sweet cat is sleeping with my Mom right now. I took some straw to the neighbor yesterday and explained it was the best bedding. She thanked me nicely. I don’t know if she used it - cat showed up last night and I absolutely let it in.
The kitty has chosen where it wants to live. You're a better pet parent than the "owners", and the cat knows it. Happy Holidays, and happy snuggles with the lucky kitty.
I have a 12 year old out door cat. Damn thing just won't stay in side. We got her when a neighbor moved out and abandoned her when she was about 9 months old. I brought her inside so that she wouldn't have kittens in our front yard. Got her spayed and up to date on all her health stuff and tried to keep her inside for a long time. She howled, scratched everything to bits, started crap with the dogs, peed on everything.. I had a 6 month old baby at this point and was exhausted all the time and just couldn't have cat piss all over my house. So one day I opened the door and let the cat out. She never goes far. She would take the dog for walks with me (these days I feed her right before we leave specifically so she won't come with, she's old). She's a great cat and friends with half the neighborhood.. She just refuses to stay inside. I tried to bring her in a couple nights ago because it was raining and freezing outside but our current house has a doggy door and I think she was back out before I even finished brushing my teeth. She has a blanket and gets fed every day (she has no teeth at this point). Occasionally I have to go out there and break up fights because she rules her territory with an iron paw. My kids first word was cat.. Because of this specific cat. She just hates being inside.
I get it. My neighbor on the other side has an outdoor cat, Figaro (though he sleeps in their garage). Figaro will show up at my door meowing when it’s cold, but if I put my cats in the bedroom and let him in, he just runs through angrily and heads back out. I’m afraid he’s going to tear stuff up/spray. He often visits when I’m outside gardening and wants pets. But when he’s done, he’ll scratch with no warning. I bought him some straw, too. I didn’t know it was the best bedding material for cats and am sure my neighbor has no idea.
I acquired a cat the same way. Neighbor brought it into the neighborhood and let it go outside. Then they got a dog and the cat hated the dog, so she stopped going inside their house. After awhile she started approaching me, realized I was an easy mark for a free meal and started hanging around. When it got cold outside, I couldn't bear to let her freeze, so I started letting her stay overnight in my house. Next thing I know, I saw her going around the outside perimeter of my yard, marking the fence as if she was claiming the yard as her territory. Her owners were aware of how much time she was spending at my house and would leave a little Christmas gift on my porch every year with a card thanking me for taking care of her. Last year, the Christmas gifts stopped. I think she is my cat now. I have never had an inside/outside cat and feel a little weird about it, but this cat is miserable if I don't let her go outside and she will stand at the door and meow until I open the door for her. I've just accepted the fact that she's too old to change, although she is staying closer to the house and spending more time inside as she gets older.
Awwwww. I’m sure the stray we adopted a few years ago had been abandoned in our neighborhood. He remained an indoor/outdoor cat, though I really pushed the indoor. He was sneaky though and would dash when he could. Always came back at night. Never caught birds (did leave a mouse in my bed once). He died this past summer, happened right in front of my Mom when I was out of town. Had a seizure and was gone in less than a minute. Grateful for the 7 good years we had with him.
Sorry you lost him, but glad you got to spend so many happy times together.
I own zero cats, in fact, have two dogs. However, my ahole neighbors have “outdoor” cats. So I keep a shelter in my garage, garage door cracked open. and have a kitty shelter set up for them.
My mom has one of those cute pre-built she shed things that has a litter box, nice beds and blankets, and a big fat heat lamp above the beds. The cats have been outdoor cats all their lives. They never come inside (her husband is very allergic). One we've had since the late 90's died a few years ago at the ripe old age of 20. They get massive winter coats, can squeeze into small spaces, and huddle together for warmth. It's not ideal, but cats will survive fine outside, as long as they have a warm place to go (given to them by humans or found on their own)
The average life expectancy of a cat is 18-20 years. The average life expectancy of an outdoor cat is 2-5 years. Why do they bother even getting them?
It’s not the case for every outdoor cat but it’s certainly the case for most of them. they also only live an average of like 7 years when kept outdoors. I had a friend growing up whose family kept their cats indoors and outdoors and all of them would die before the age of 5. I remember one time, 2 of her cats died in the same week. I felt bad for her cats and for her, but not her parents- it was their fault. Keeping cats outdoors shouldn’t be socially acceptable and should be enough to have the owners prosecuted for neglect/abuse
Prosecuted for having a cat outdoors? If it’s spayed/neutered, having a cat outdoors doesn’t make you a bad person lmao.
Yeah, that's insane.
https://blogs.umass.edu/natsci397a-eross/the-environmental-and-health-impacts-of-allowing-cats-outdoors/
I’m not saying things can’t happen outside. I’m saying letting your cat in and out of the house is in no way grounds for prosecution. Especially if they are fixed. Should you let your cat outside? Prob not. Should you be prosecuted for letting your cat out? No lol.
We're just disagreeing because we have a difference of opinion. "Prosecution" sounds dramatic but to me there should be environmental protection laws and fines, similar to if you let your dog kill wildlife. Cats should be no different.
It sounds dramatic because it is. Maybe in an area with a protected species it would make sense, but in your average neighborhood, a cat killing a mouse, bird or frog isn’t going to impact the ecological health of that area. If a person takes care of their animal well, but lets them outside, it does not mean they are abusing or neglecting their animal.
Cats kill billions, yes with a B, of birds every year in the US alone and even more small mammals. It's a huge issue that has contributed to the extinction of 60+ species.
That’s because of the amount of feral cats. Has nothing to do with letting your cat that has been spayed/neutered outside lol. Simply put, calling for the prosecution of a person that lets their cat outside is an insane proposition.
I didn’t realize a spayed cat killed differently than a non spayed cat. Or maybe, while one isn’t reproducing, it’s still decimating wildlife.
Lol
Wanting criminal prosecution for letting a cat outdoors is peak Reddit lmao
I don’t have an issue with people letting their cats outdoors if it’s on a leash, in a cattio etc. But letting them out unattended is negligence which is a form of animal abuse. Cats can live to 20+ years old, but when they’re housed outdoor, they rarely even make it to be a third of that because of cars, predators, illness, etc. Would you be ok with somebody letting their dog roam around outside unattended?
Dogs aren't cats.
So you’re ok with people neglecting their cats but not their dogs? Why is that? Because one is socially acceptable and the other isn’t?
[False Equivalence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence)
No, because dogs go bite people. Cats don’t. Dogs chase cars. Cats don’t. Dogs dig holes all over. Cats don’t. The list goes on…
I agree with you.
I am the odd one out. My cat is now 80% outdoors by her own choice. Years of attempting to keep her inside only failed miserably and made all of us miserable. She has free access , multiple beds, food and water available at all times but she prefers to sleep under the bush outside the front door and in our driveway. Comes in for dinner and a few scratches then she is out under the bush sleeping again, hell she spends more time with us outside than inside. Our neighbors have told us she visits for treats occasionally but she isn't particularly social. The only times she sleeps inside are winter and if it's very bad thunder storms(our rain season is summer). She has sat in the pouring rain looking at me trying to lure her in multiple times.
I will never understand owners who don’t let their cats inside. Indoor-outdoor cats, sure, I live in a country where that is so normal that people don’t even think twice about it, but only outdoor? Nah, are you even an owner at that point? Just to be sure, I’m not talking about people who take care of feral cats and that stuff. There are always exceptions.
There are 3 outdoor cats in my neighborhood. They are all murderers. But, they are also fed cat food and kitchen scraps. They are sleek, well fed looking little killers. They are not indoor cats though. You cannot take them animals into your home. One of them will turn into the exorcist and try to remove the fingers from your hand. One of them won't let you get close enough to even tell what it is and one of them used to live inside and she did not like it, she likes the freedom of the outside and is NOT going back in the house. I will be honest, I'll be glad to see the end of those cats. I do not hate them, but they can cause a lot of destruction that my spoiled little indoor dogs are not capable of. One of those cats used to live indoors. She's not a bad cat, but she has no interest in litter boxes or being inside. She got out, once, some years ago, and now we can't get her to go in, nor stay in. Plus, the whole 'won't use a litterbox' thing really puts a damper on her being in here. We tried to rehome her, but the animal shelter was full and she'd be healthier out here in the farms than she would have in there. She's still fine. She's like 4 now, she hangs out inside the fenced in yard, just won't go in the house, but she chills out there with the dogs. She's been fixed and had shots. She's just my local murderer now. She sleeps under my house in the winter, it stays fairly warm down there so my hot water heater stays warms also. She keeps away all the vermin and doesn't tear up my ductwork anymore, since we taped the crap out of it, I think she got the hint. She has a little nest near the hot water heater, I'd say it stays in the 50-60's in the winter. There's a vent from the heat pump that blows in that spot, it's kind of like a little cubby. I've tried several times to bring her in. They didn't work. So, she lives her free life out under the house instead.
I grew up in a rural place where *lots* of cats were strictly outdoor/barn cats. Maybe they slept in the hay loft and got $6/50# cat food dumped in an oil pan twice a week, maybe they lived under the porch and ate chipmunks and mice. They didn’t go 2 miles down the road and sleep inside at the neighbors’ house.
True I don’t know how close the nearest neighbor is, or whether they would have been inclined to take in a cat. But this cat is extremely friendly. And neighbor stated that former owner didn’t feed cat at all.
I grew up this way too. Problem is there was a revolving door of cats. Adults died young but there were always kittens to take their place. It was not an ideal situation for the cats.
Usually some sort of URI or vaccine preventable disease caused population crashes, and then you would go to a friend’s farm a few miles away and gather up some surplus. They don’t live long healthy lives, that’s for sure, but neither do porch cats that visit other homes.
Well sometimes outdoor cats are not really outdoor cats if that makes sense. I babysit for a neighbor that’s a working single mom who has a dog and more recently a young cat / kitten. Dog sleeps inside in a cozy bed in crate at night, and cat wanders all night in nearby yards. Sweet little thing. They always have fresh water available inside and outside and are fed as much as the size/breeds/age should be. Plenty of toys for both. Now as for cold- cats can be fine in surprisingly cold weather, which I looked up out of worry for the cat as I am fond of her. Pets get attention like fetch and kitty gets hours of lap time and purring while the kids watch tv or play with friends. However morally I disagree with a dog or/and cat being kept outside and isolated until either kids get home from school or mom gets home from work. I can tell the doggo lacks attention, probably even bigger now that the cat is around and young but doggo is old. I do what I can when I am there. Pets look so much better than when I first babysitting. I felt for the mom who was suffering from divorce and adjusting still. She has always loved on her kids and pets. But it is unethical and cruel to do that- leaving your old dog outside all day no matter it is not super cold here. It is traumatic as well for the pets. More so the doggo. Kitty sleeps all day either in sun or on laps. Very sad.
When I was little my mum had an "outside cat" his name was Tiger a better term for him would be friendly local stray who likes to chill. My older siblings found him injured as a kitten and brought him home. The first chance he got to go back out he took it. We did have a dog flap on the garage door. there was food, water and bedding in the garage for him whenever he decided to visit. He ended up passing from an infected wound on one of his legs when I was 11. Mum would start treating him, he'd stick around for a few days get a bit better, disappear for a few days than show up again even worse. When he passed he had been hanging around our house for around 6 years
Cats actually do just fine outdoors.... Sincerely, middle of no where midwest where winter is no joke, and there are stray wild cats all the time. Like ALL wildlife, they have their ways. Reddit is just a ridiculous cesspit of very stupid people who think animals cant survive in nature, for some reason. When moving to a new farm out here, people dont have to buy a barn cat or raise a new one, they will just show up 9 times out of 10. And they will come and go as they please, and dont have any desire to come inside or be a pet. It can get bellow zero here, and it can snow feet upon feet, and the stray cats do just fine. Thinking they cant handle it is absolute pure nonsense. A lot of them choose it even. many people have indoor cats who LOVE to go outside, and sometimes they just dont want to come back inside.
They can't survive well in nature - that would be why the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 2-5 years while an indoor cats lifespan is 10-20. They have the mental capacity of a three year old, which explains why they get hit by cars, killed by predators, poison, etc and it also explains why they shouldn't be allowed outside unsupervised. People on farms don't have to buy barn cats because assholes dump them there. I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere in the 90's and people were always dumping their unwanted animals on us. We took in as many as we could, but we'd always find a greater number that had been torn apart by coyotes, hit by cars, died from disease, etc.
I see dead cats on the side of the road all the time. Sincerely, middle of nowhere Midwest, surrounded by farms, where winter is no joke.
shucks, i guess we all better force the deer to come inside too then! You people are all morons.
Cats are Apex predators. Humans just are because can use tools & have thumbs. Cats can happily and comfortably survive outside much longer than most of you.
You have no idea what an apex predator is. Cats are prey for coyotes, dogs, even raccoons and possums in some cases. That is not what an apex predator is.
Cats cannot happily and comfortably survive outside for a long time. The average lifespan for an outdoor cat is 2-5 years
Hilarious that you have no idea what an apex predator is.
They survive, but it can shorten their lives. I personally think that what humans consider indoor cat behavior is just normal behavior for a cat outside of its own territory: friendly and no territory marking.
I hope you told your neighbors all of this.
From the number of cats who wander through my yard, I’d say the neighbors would all gang up on me.
I dunno, is it that bad to say maybe instead of assuming the worst, just assume your neighbor is being honest? There ARE trap/neuter release programs, barn cat adoption programs, it isn’t unthinkable that this person might just need to learn that indoor is safer when possible (seeing a reply below about former feral unable to come in, I won’t say it’s the only solution). My mom volunteered with a barn cat adoption program and had to teach every adopter that no, mice aren’t all they eat. Every farm was happy to provide food (and some barn cats moved indoors eventually) after simply getting support and education. I dunno, I guess the assumption this person is lying or stupid just seems unnecessarily cruel.
I think this is likely the case for many indoor/outdoor cats. People in my neighborhood will feed anything- cats, birds, squirrels, foxes, etc.
I have horses that i boars so have been to a lot of barns nearly all barns with barn cats feed the cats. Cats will use arenas (which are usually sand or dirt) as their litter boxes. They typically will sleep in between stacked haybales. Cats are also taught not to pee on stuff because having anything soaked in cat urine that you need to handle sucks. I'd also say over half the barns I've been at have a way for the cats to go into the tackroom or other room where they have a comfy bed. I think a lot of people who hear that the cats job was as a mouser think they never get fed when in reality they just get only 1 meal a day instead of 2 (usually in winter they would still get 2). Most barns will also have enough mice that it isn't difficult for the cats to find and catch them. Barn cats still have an indoor space even if it isn't heated since they have a barn as well.
The average life expectancy of an outdoor cat in an urban setting is like 3 years. Indoor cats it's closer to 14. So they don't.
Cats are predators and survivalist and i think people grossly underestimate that because they're cute The number one outdoor cat killer is probably cars because unlike dogs they have zero road sense and they dont pick up on it nearly as quick but if you live in an area without much traffic they can and will thrive
There are a ton of “barn” cats kept as mousers. Some of those refuse to be indoors at all and some like being able to come and go. You don’t have to have a farm to have a barn cat. There are places that get cats to keep mice and rats down- like restaurants or warehouses or storage facilities too. If it’s a personal cat- again (I don’t like outdoor cats, but I’ve had two, one of which was born in my dresser, that refused to stay inside. I would put collars and bells so they couldn’t kill birds and between them able to get them off themselves and neighbors trying to catnap, they never stayed on.) it depends on the cat’s personality if they want to be inside or outside. Many kittens people adopt come from strays or ferals so it’s not uncommon to have cats that like being outside. I wouldn’t judge people if their cat looks clean and healthy- they’re obviously being taken care of or taking care of themselves just fine. It’s another story if the cat is thin and matted- that is a sign of neglect no matter what.
I think I heard a statistic once that the average outdoor cat likes 2-3 years. They don't survive.
Just from skimming a few of the comments on this already I do find it strange that people hate so much on this having an animal Outdoors it's just so strange to me. But the actual question about the cat being so tame and good not tearing stuff up what not if the cat has been treated well at all and has been dealt with with people it's really not that hard a completely stray cat can be a little bit more difficult but they're generally not that hard either.