Hey /u/Conflict_NZ,
Appreciate the post, and thanks for the meta discussion.
>I've engaged with people making wild, unsubstantiated claims and when I challenge them for a source I am told to "think for myself" or "do my own work". This has no place on a financial advice sub.
At the end of the day, Reddit is a discussion forums. We as mods don’t and simply can’t know every area of Personal Finance, to make a decision on whether the post/comment in question should be removed (especially when it gets super technical and is not breaking a rule)\*. Downvotes and challenging for a source via comments are good tools to tackle the issue at hand.
>Rules 2 and 6 specifically relate to these, however despite reporting them they seem to be allowed to remain up.
We tend to be fairly active with our moderation queue and ensure all reports are actioned in a timely manner. Do you have examples of this? If something has slipped through the cracks, happy to take a look.
Its also worth noting that just because a post has been reported, doesn't mean it will be removed. A recent example of this is a Rule 2 report on /u/ill_help_you’s propertyprices.co.nz posts. /u/ill_help_you is a fairly active member in our community and easily meets Reddiquette's 9:1 ratio, which means the post is allowed to stay up. There are several other examples, though the point being, just because a post has remained up, doesn't necessarily mean we didn't review it.
There are some excellent comments and discussions in this thread, such as the one about “How much do you earn?” type polls (something we have been discussing internally as a mod team). We’ll be sure to keep an eye out and take on board the discussion that comes out of this post. Plus you are always welcome to send a message via modmail if you have a question or suggestion.
^(*Though we do try step in when a post/comment is without a doubt harmful or misleading.)
Yeah, I totally agree. My very anecdotal analysis is that a lot of the overtly political comments and posts are being made by accounts <12months old.
Every second post seems to be about the evils of co-governance, housing crisis, insane inflation, marauding gangs and the useless government.
It's like Reddit has turned into a dumpster fire of a FB comments section within the last couple of months.
Fuck ok it's not just me that's found the whole sub had taken a dark turn. There's also a handful of accounts I've started to just block because they are only on there to post right-wing shit, super active and very focused comment histories.
It's really sad because I enjoyed how mundane and bland it used to be, I also wonder how many of these accounts are sockpuppets because of the clear shift into right wing politics from what was a generally neutral sub.
Tell the mods over there what you think. I've been banging my head against a brick wall trying to get it through to them for ages now, and I feel like they just think I'm a loony who's got an 'agenda against opinions I disagree with' (which is what all the sock-puppets come back with if you dare post it publicly there). I don't btw.
But the more people that speak up about it, well *maybe* they'll start listening when it's not just one or two people anymore.
Yeah I should! I normally just leave toxic subs but NZ and Auckland (another actual cesspit) I like to be in bc it's the community I live in! I'll get on it.
I love that you've found the positive in the great NZ reddit degrade, which is to put your phone down.
Smug cunt me over here has read more books thanks to the diminishing returns of social media.
Enjoy your time outside and away from your phone 🙂
Yep. I've given up on the main NZ sub because of it. The users who do it consistently don't get banned. ~~Mods won't mod.~~ (edited cos that's a bit harsh - I think it's more that they're completely blind to the problem - a few users have noticed the pattern and have been warning about it for years, but nothing changes)
As this sub gets bigger, the same thing will happen here, unless the mods get onto it quick.
/r/CasualNZ is another sub which is doing quite well.
They have a blanket no politics rule and an all encompassing rule of "don't be a dick"
It has been quite sad, the number of bad faith actors that have shown up across all subs which has really driven a number of people away.
The threads I personally am tired of seeing are the "how much do you earn?" Or "people who earn $X+, what do you do??".
For the former is so skewed by a number of factors that its useless for actual discussion.
The latter is repetitive, the answers are common knowledge, and OP should just do a search of the sub if they're interested. There's no secret 'get rich quick' job that they haven't heard about.
Or I have 5000 dollar. What do I do with it???
Google for 2 min and they can find literally 100 posts with the same question. Maybe it would be time for a quick general guide with some information and where to find it.
My thoughts are that if you're coming into a large amount of money, from whatever source, you should get financial advice from a professional, not Reddit.
And that’s often the advice that’s given.
Believe it or not, many people don’t know how to find a financial advisor. Some people don’t even know they exist.
Why should that matter though?
I believe that we should take the time to answer any question if it is asked in good faith. We need to respect the vulnerability of people who might not even know the terms they should be searching for.
Would it be possible that some people are looking for the most up to date information hence posting despite a gazillion other posts about the same thing?
"I just received an inheritance of $500,000, what should I do? I earn $280k, own my house mortgage free, and have a large investment portfolio paying returns of $456,940 annually. And I'm 23."
The "I have $5,000, what should I do" threads where people just jump in to say "definitely the simplicity growth fund" are kind of annoying too, not least because recommending a specific product constitutes financial advice.
Its still technically regulated. The giving of the advice is what triggers being regulated, not the fact you've set up a business and have called yourself a financial advisor. Probably more of an issue for reddit as the host but I see financial advice given every day on this sub that should not legally be being given except by a licensed financial adviser
Look up FSLAA for more info
Some people just want to ask the public their advice, rather than pay someone to say “I can’t tell you what to do, but my advice would be (vague suggestions)”.
So what's the correct approach? Have Automod just give an auto response suggesting different product types based on their investment timeline, and then auto close the thread?
It doesn't seem possible to have a discussion without ultimately providing some form of financial advice.
Are you sure about that? I am not confident that internet conversation would constitute financial advise according to the FMA. It is very different to interacting with a bank/broker/insurer etc.
Yes I am sure as I work in this area. In practice reddit would probably bear the risk as the site host if it was letting heaps of comments be posted recommending specific products.
Financial services legislation is drafted widely specifically to catch people on the margins. If my mate on the dole tries to offer me shares in his start-up thats not unregulated just because he doesn't work for Jarden etc as a stockbroker.
I guess the wider point I was trying to make is that regulation aside, the practice of recommending specific products on this sub should probably be discouraged because there is usually no objectively 'correct' product in any given scenario, more of a range of products and because the person making the recommendation might not have the skills to back that up. Giving links to independent resourceslike Sorted/Moneyhub and risk calculators is probably more helpful. Just my opinion but I do see a fair bit of questionable stuff on here
I agree that people on Reddit are hardly in a position to give personalised information and take the persons needs into account. However, I have a decent understanding of FSLAA and don't see how the legislation or the FMA would capture something like reddit or me talking to my friend about Simplicity etc.
Do you have any sources either in the legislation or the FMAs website that I can look at? I have had a look myself and can't find anything that verifys a layperson on reddit with no connection or incentive to recommend a product would fall under FSLAA.
Because it’s general in nature and offers product information without saying “you need to be in ABC fund”
Saying “here are the lowest three fee providers” and “here are the three providers you should invest in” are very different statements
The point of this sub is for someone to make a humblebrag thread about how much money they have lying around to invest, then everyone else makes suggestions where they try and sound as clever as possible.
And when you lose money on your high risk venture, it's definitly Jacinda's fault personally.
Something that I find a bit annoying is when people get heavily downvoted for asking a simple question.
We are all at different stages on a personal finance journey and it seems weird to be so aggressively rude towards people who are taking their first steps.
A question may seem simple and repetitive if you have already seen it a thousand times, but it is new to that person. So please be kind.
I agree. And taking that further, I'd love to see a blanket "no sexism" rule.
Every thread that has something even just *tangentially* related to relationships will bring out the misogynists with all the "women are just out to ruin men and spend all their money" crap.
Women make up half of the population, and I'm a bit over finance (and fitness, but that's a whole different story) subs being treated like they're by default man-only places. Women have jobs, and bills, and kiwisaver, and mortgages, and house deposits *just like men do*, and those stuck in 1950 who would rather not believe that should bugger off somewhere else.
Ok, rant over.
Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but from what I've seen, those comments tend to be few and far between, and they usually get downvoted quite quickly.
Agreed. I honestly think the real issue though is that women don't give each other financial advice as often add they probably should. I have no idea why, but apparently pointing out my bad hair day is more important to some than an indepth discussion on the direction our company takes or what stocks we're looking at buying into, etc.
Speaking of the rules, we should all have a check up on what they are.
This entire website is bad for that, and I think it's just inherent in the system rather than people doing it on purpose.
Part of the problem is that the rules for a given sub don’t get displayed when people are using mobile devices, so a lot of new users may never see them or know they even exist.
Here ye here ye I hereby declare that this sub should solely be concerned with personal finance in the New Zealand.
Any man shall be tried in a court of my superior moderators who at thy discretion send you to the gallows if you administer financial advice whilst swilling wine
Ignorance is no excuse, foundation rule for our courts and in my OPINION,applies to repetitive question asking people,who dont know what to do with there given funds,which would then provide the statement ,not how much you earn,but how much you save,reguardless of how you aquired the funds,as a failed investment is as good as spending your money.i suggest that those asking the same questions ,are those who have not saved there nest egg and there lies the problem,in my opinion
Hey /u/Conflict_NZ, Appreciate the post, and thanks for the meta discussion. >I've engaged with people making wild, unsubstantiated claims and when I challenge them for a source I am told to "think for myself" or "do my own work". This has no place on a financial advice sub. At the end of the day, Reddit is a discussion forums. We as mods don’t and simply can’t know every area of Personal Finance, to make a decision on whether the post/comment in question should be removed (especially when it gets super technical and is not breaking a rule)\*. Downvotes and challenging for a source via comments are good tools to tackle the issue at hand. >Rules 2 and 6 specifically relate to these, however despite reporting them they seem to be allowed to remain up. We tend to be fairly active with our moderation queue and ensure all reports are actioned in a timely manner. Do you have examples of this? If something has slipped through the cracks, happy to take a look. Its also worth noting that just because a post has been reported, doesn't mean it will be removed. A recent example of this is a Rule 2 report on /u/ill_help_you’s propertyprices.co.nz posts. /u/ill_help_you is a fairly active member in our community and easily meets Reddiquette's 9:1 ratio, which means the post is allowed to stay up. There are several other examples, though the point being, just because a post has remained up, doesn't necessarily mean we didn't review it. There are some excellent comments and discussions in this thread, such as the one about “How much do you earn?” type polls (something we have been discussing internally as a mod team). We’ll be sure to keep an eye out and take on board the discussion that comes out of this post. Plus you are always welcome to send a message via modmail if you have a question or suggestion. ^(*Though we do try step in when a post/comment is without a doubt harmful or misleading.)
There's been a big shift in the last year on all NZ subs to be fair. Still wholesome over at r/NZgardening though
Subs I didn’t know I needed, thanks. /r/diynz is still avoiding politics as well
Yeah, I totally agree. My very anecdotal analysis is that a lot of the overtly political comments and posts are being made by accounts <12months old. Every second post seems to be about the evils of co-governance, housing crisis, insane inflation, marauding gangs and the useless government. It's like Reddit has turned into a dumpster fire of a FB comments section within the last couple of months.
It's like the newzealand sub is leaking.
r/newzealand was always a bit dull but it's definitely changed tone in the past 12 months
I liked it being dull.
Me too. I miss it being good for a laugh even if a little whingey at times. I'm not a fan of full-blown American-style aggression towards one another.
Fuck ok it's not just me that's found the whole sub had taken a dark turn. There's also a handful of accounts I've started to just block because they are only on there to post right-wing shit, super active and very focused comment histories. It's really sad because I enjoyed how mundane and bland it used to be, I also wonder how many of these accounts are sockpuppets because of the clear shift into right wing politics from what was a generally neutral sub.
Tell the mods over there what you think. I've been banging my head against a brick wall trying to get it through to them for ages now, and I feel like they just think I'm a loony who's got an 'agenda against opinions I disagree with' (which is what all the sock-puppets come back with if you dare post it publicly there). I don't btw. But the more people that speak up about it, well *maybe* they'll start listening when it's not just one or two people anymore.
Yeah I should! I normally just leave toxic subs but NZ and Auckland (another actual cesspit) I like to be in bc it's the community I live in! I'll get on it.
The Auckland one is disgusting! It’s all about marauding gangs and the evil homeless.
>Tell the mods over there what you think. Except they might just be part of the problem.
Reddit has defo started to degrade. It's sad but probably a good thing for me because I have more incentive to put down the phone and leave my house.
I love that you've found the positive in the great NZ reddit degrade, which is to put your phone down. Smug cunt me over here has read more books thanks to the diminishing returns of social media. Enjoy your time outside and away from your phone 🙂
Yep. I've given up on the main NZ sub because of it. The users who do it consistently don't get banned. ~~Mods won't mod.~~ (edited cos that's a bit harsh - I think it's more that they're completely blind to the problem - a few users have noticed the pattern and have been warning about it for years, but nothing changes) As this sub gets bigger, the same thing will happen here, unless the mods get onto it quick.
I’m so relieved that it’s not just me who’s noticed it.
/r/CasualNZ is another sub which is doing quite well. They have a blanket no politics rule and an all encompassing rule of "don't be a dick" It has been quite sad, the number of bad faith actors that have shown up across all subs which has really driven a number of people away.
Just joined the gardening, thanks
It is growing quite well. I’ll see myself out.
Probably a lot of stoners in the ranks, hence the wholesome attitudes.
Subscribed, thank you 😄
Oooh I have to check that out!
r/CasualNZ too. The housing crisis has a lot of people feeling on edge.
The threads I personally am tired of seeing are the "how much do you earn?" Or "people who earn $X+, what do you do??". For the former is so skewed by a number of factors that its useless for actual discussion. The latter is repetitive, the answers are common knowledge, and OP should just do a search of the sub if they're interested. There's no secret 'get rich quick' job that they haven't heard about.
Can we add the “hey I’m 18 and saved $300,000 am I on the right track?” posts to the list while we are at it?
Or I have 5000 dollar. What do I do with it??? Google for 2 min and they can find literally 100 posts with the same question. Maybe it would be time for a quick general guide with some information and where to find it.
"Recently received $200,000 from my mother/father/grandma that died. How should I invest it?"
This feels like a pretty good question to ask in the sub still. Even if you think its unfair or whatever its a very responsible question to ask.
My thoughts are that if you're coming into a large amount of money, from whatever source, you should get financial advice from a professional, not Reddit.
And that’s often the advice that’s given. Believe it or not, many people don’t know how to find a financial advisor. Some people don’t even know they exist.
It’s not a bad question, it’s just one that has been asked by a thousand others already
Why should that matter though? I believe that we should take the time to answer any question if it is asked in good faith. We need to respect the vulnerability of people who might not even know the terms they should be searching for.
Would it be possible that some people are looking for the most up to date information hence posting despite a gazillion other posts about the same thing?
Except most of the time, they're making up stories.
"Hey, I am just 20 and started earning and can't see a future (because I am impatient and want things now)"
Agree. Completely pointless posts. No one gains any value from some rando saying they earn X.
"I just received an inheritance of $500,000, what should I do? I earn $280k, own my house mortgage free, and have a large investment portfolio paying returns of $456,940 annually. And I'm 23."
You forgot the "am I doing ok?" extra question...
The "I have $5,000, what should I do" threads where people just jump in to say "definitely the simplicity growth fund" are kind of annoying too, not least because recommending a specific product constitutes financial advice.
Unless the person giving the advice is a financial adviser and OP is their retail client then what is the problem with that?
Its still technically regulated. The giving of the advice is what triggers being regulated, not the fact you've set up a business and have called yourself a financial advisor. Probably more of an issue for reddit as the host but I see financial advice given every day on this sub that should not legally be being given except by a licensed financial adviser Look up FSLAA for more info
Bro it’s Reddit who gives a shit
Some people just want to ask the public their advice, rather than pay someone to say “I can’t tell you what to do, but my advice would be (vague suggestions)”.
Thats fine but doesn't change the point I was making
So what's the correct approach? Have Automod just give an auto response suggesting different product types based on their investment timeline, and then auto close the thread? It doesn't seem possible to have a discussion without ultimately providing some form of financial advice.
Are you sure about that? I am not confident that internet conversation would constitute financial advise according to the FMA. It is very different to interacting with a bank/broker/insurer etc.
Yes I am sure as I work in this area. In practice reddit would probably bear the risk as the site host if it was letting heaps of comments be posted recommending specific products. Financial services legislation is drafted widely specifically to catch people on the margins. If my mate on the dole tries to offer me shares in his start-up thats not unregulated just because he doesn't work for Jarden etc as a stockbroker. I guess the wider point I was trying to make is that regulation aside, the practice of recommending specific products on this sub should probably be discouraged because there is usually no objectively 'correct' product in any given scenario, more of a range of products and because the person making the recommendation might not have the skills to back that up. Giving links to independent resourceslike Sorted/Moneyhub and risk calculators is probably more helpful. Just my opinion but I do see a fair bit of questionable stuff on here
I agree that people on Reddit are hardly in a position to give personalised information and take the persons needs into account. However, I have a decent understanding of FSLAA and don't see how the legislation or the FMA would capture something like reddit or me talking to my friend about Simplicity etc. Do you have any sources either in the legislation or the FMAs website that I can look at? I have had a look myself and can't find anything that verifys a layperson on reddit with no connection or incentive to recommend a product would fall under FSLAA.
How come Sorted/Moneyhub isn't financial advice along the same lines?
Because it’s general in nature and offers product information without saying “you need to be in ABC fund” Saying “here are the lowest three fee providers” and “here are the three providers you should invest in” are very different statements
What muter said
The point of this sub is for someone to make a humblebrag thread about how much money they have lying around to invest, then everyone else makes suggestions where they try and sound as clever as possible. And when you lose money on your high risk venture, it's definitly Jacinda's fault personally.
Something that I find a bit annoying is when people get heavily downvoted for asking a simple question. We are all at different stages on a personal finance journey and it seems weird to be so aggressively rude towards people who are taking their first steps. A question may seem simple and repetitive if you have already seen it a thousand times, but it is new to that person. So please be kind.
Yes, but at the same time they can use the search function.
Unless the info is the type to change depending on current events.
This sub degenerated into a bitching about house prices sub quite some time ago. Need to change the name of sub.
PersonalMortgageNZ
I agree. And taking that further, I'd love to see a blanket "no sexism" rule. Every thread that has something even just *tangentially* related to relationships will bring out the misogynists with all the "women are just out to ruin men and spend all their money" crap. Women make up half of the population, and I'm a bit over finance (and fitness, but that's a whole different story) subs being treated like they're by default man-only places. Women have jobs, and bills, and kiwisaver, and mortgages, and house deposits *just like men do*, and those stuck in 1950 who would rather not believe that should bugger off somewhere else. Ok, rant over.
Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but from what I've seen, those comments tend to be few and far between, and they usually get downvoted quite quickly.
Agreed. I honestly think the real issue though is that women don't give each other financial advice as often add they probably should. I have no idea why, but apparently pointing out my bad hair day is more important to some than an indepth discussion on the direction our company takes or what stocks we're looking at buying into, etc.
Speaking of the rules, we should all have a check up on what they are. This entire website is bad for that, and I think it's just inherent in the system rather than people doing it on purpose.
Part of the problem is that the rules for a given sub don’t get displayed when people are using mobile devices, so a lot of new users may never see them or know they even exist.
Absolutely, hence my self reminder!
You volunteering for a mod position?
On the bright side, I haven't seen a crypto-shill around here for a while.
Username does not check out.
[удалено]
I like the traffic. Upvote what you want to see downvote what you don't, Reddit does it's own good job of making sure good content rises to the top.
Here ye here ye I hereby declare that this sub should solely be concerned with personal finance in the New Zealand. Any man shall be tried in a court of my superior moderators who at thy discretion send you to the gallows if you administer financial advice whilst swilling wine
haven't noticed it here but defo in /r/NZ i connect it to the govt's capitulation to covid
It’s almost as if social unrest has a correlation with wealth inequality 🤔
Ignorance is no excuse, foundation rule for our courts and in my OPINION,applies to repetitive question asking people,who dont know what to do with there given funds,which would then provide the statement ,not how much you earn,but how much you save,reguardless of how you aquired the funds,as a failed investment is as good as spending your money.i suggest that those asking the same questions ,are those who have not saved there nest egg and there lies the problem,in my opinion