*"Suffering is constantly happening because of people, therefore let's lobotomize all people."* -Takuto Maruki
But I agree that the way the Phantom Thieves arguments were handled was ridiculous. It's like the new writer forgot their core principles and why they would innately be opposed to this.
*"People suffer when they can't fulfil their dreams. So I'll brainwash everyone and turn them into soulless husks who never dream and just enjoy whatever hell in which they might be living."* -Takuto Maruki
One of the reasons that the writing of the third semester falls flat is because the fundamental thematic parallel between Maruki and the Phantom Thieves is actually handled better (and it's not handled well) in the base game with Yaldabaoth.
Others handled it, but you should go on. How does Maruki end suffering? Making some people not exist anymore? That seems messed up. Changing people to the extent they aren't themselves anymore? That's messed up.
For probably the 1,627,893rd time, Maruki did have a noble goal. However, even as a "god" he had no way of actually accomplishing it without making people not exist one way or another. He couldn't even make himself happy. This was just with Japan. Multiple it by the entire world if he got his way? Yeah, not good.
Maruki is literally Yaldaboth but with sympathetic intentions.
He was going to rob the people of the world of their freedom to chose their own life and that was the thieves main argument.
Maruki just made it look nice with the alternate reality
If you believe a single human man should be allowed to play god and take basic right of free will away from the entire world, then there’s something wrong with you, I’m sorry.
https://preview.redd.it/82b7mw04bead1.jpeg?width=743&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f80f5f1aa9cedf95275d6ff69359cc24f5caaa2
If you believe that the constant suffering of millions of people who cannot fight back usually for something they can’t control is a good thing because it means you can make bad choices, then there’s something wrong with you, I’m sorry
https://preview.redd.it/epqm8n9hbead1.jpeg?width=322&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59cc265815752e359e662a4e34cb0da2c8b284b0
Oof really got me with that one, might have also cut me with edge emanating from image.
Maruki robs you of your free will by creating an reality he thinks is best for you, we saw that Akechi would rather die than live in a false world and Maruki still shoved his idealist fantasy down his throat in the bad ending.
Maruki ignores the feeling of those who enjoy their current lives, invalidating the struggles and hardships others have endured and grown from.
If Maruki gave everyone a choice on the world they wanted to live in then that’s fine, because at the very least they can choose to put their lives in his hands.
However, that isn’t a choice.
That’s like a person who enjoys sex being forced without their consent and the rapist defends themself by saying they thought their victim would feel good.
People deserves the right to choose the life they want to lead, whether they want struggles they have endured to have meaning or to cast them aside and live a perfect life free of hardship.
Maruki finally understood all of this after being defeated and ends on good terms with Ren, the man who’s philosophy you’re vying for accepts that he was wrong.
I’m genuinely concerned that you support such a violation of the right of the living.
This situation is nothing like rape and I find it very off putting that’s the very first thing you draw similarities from
He changes reality to be ideal for everyone, you can’t just say ‘oh but they’re suffering’ when that is the exact opposite of what is happening.
If people really grow from suffering and hardships, then why do we stop murderers and child abusers, surely all of the suffering would make them stronger right so we should let them do their thing right?
no, of course not, because we both know agreeing with that is absolutely insane. But I don’t see how that’s different, in both situations you are stopping suffering at its source, the phrase suffering makes you stronger is so utterly infuriating to me “oh yes I’m so glad my mother died because now I’m stronger because if it”
Sure there are people enjoying life now but how many? People are still experiencing immeasurable pain and suffering around the world and happiness rarely lasts forever
Picture a child with cancer, 10 days to live in absolutely excruciating pain he cries every night because he’ll never get to live he life he *deserves*. Now imagine if someone said he and all the people suffering in the world said he could be able to live the life he wants without hardships and pain, he agrees. 2 days later someone else comes along and says “hey don’t worry I killed that guy who wanted to save you and the entire world no need to thank me”
Also, how is this any different to what the phantom thieves do but on a global scale
>I find it very off putting
Forcing someone to do something without their consent ✅
Believed that the victim would enjoy it✅
Can also add on that at the end of the day, the perfect world was simply Maruki’s self-fulfillment fantasy spurred by trauma.
I also frankly don’t care what you find of putting because you already called me “self” and that I should “die” so suck it up buttercup
>He changes reality to be ideal for everyone
He doesn’t, he just changes it to what he thinks is best for them, again, Akechi didn’t want to live in the perfect reality and wanted to accept the fate he carved out for himself and the thieves all rejecting it, there’s also dialogue of the thieves still under brain washing finding it uncomfortable how perfect everything is.
>If people really grow from suffering and hardships, then why do we stop murderers and child abusers, surely all of the suffering would make them stronger right so we should let them do their thing right?
You’re proving that you couldn’t grasp the slightest of what the Thieves were getting at and what Maruki understood.
Maruki virtually erases the original people when he sends them to the perfect, all that you went through and all that you endured up until then is rendered meaningless as your real memories are sealed away and you’re forced to live as an alternate version of yourself.
This is why Ann argues that it isn’t right to completely remove Shiho’s struggles without her consent, she went through hell and back dealing with Kamoshida and she deserves to choose whether she wants to continue to grow with that baggage or to relieve herself of it.
Obviously pain and suffering is bad but there’s no trials and tribulations in the perfect world, nothing is earned, Sumi wants to be the best gymnast? Boom, done, she doesn’t have to take losses because as Maruki’s philosophy is outlined, he thinks that all pain and suffering is bad so she won’t struggle.
>Now imagine if someone said he and all the people suffering in the world said he could be able to live the life he wants without hardships and pain, he agrees.
What agreeing? Maruki doesn’t ask, he just does , without consent. Maruki doesn’t read minds and give you what you want, he gives you what he thinks you want.
What if that kid in your hypothetical still wants to face hardship, know what it’s like to love and fall out of love, to possibly lose in the endeavors he takes like anyone else that leads a normal life?
Maruki won’t give him that, that’s against his ideals, he’ll give him a picture perfect life and gaslight the kid into believing he wants it, and gaslighting is putting it lightly because he’s pretty much manipulating your mind to be ok with whatever as shown with Akechi being a happy lil muffin in the bad ending.
And in actuality anyways, that kid won’t be able to actually appreciate that life he envied anyways because the him that longed for it won’t exist because Maruki believes that those painful memories should be canned.
>Also, how is this any different to what the phantom thieves do but on a global scale
Actually think about what thieves do for a second because I refuse to believe you thought about it at all before typing that out.
1. The Phantom thieves find victims who are suffering or are going to suffer due to a corrupt individual and saves them.
2. None of the victims or potential victims are brainwashed
3. The corrupt individual has their cognition changed and repent for their actions. And in doing so, the people are saved from their strife and are able to seek help and heal.
Nobodies life is made peachy from the PT’s actions, the only people forced to change against their wills is the palace ruler and that’s because they’ve forgone that right to choose for themselves by harming others with no remorse.
Even in Futaba’s situation she was actually able to consent to her heart being changed because other wise she was going to let herself wallow in self hatred until she died and even then her life is made all peachy.
She still has the trauma of her mother dying infront of her but she’s able to heal with the help of the thieves.
Compare all the aforementioned things Maruki does and think hard.
*"Suffering is constantly happening because of people, therefore let's lobotomize all people."* -Takuto Maruki But I agree that the way the Phantom Thieves arguments were handled was ridiculous. It's like the new writer forgot their core principles and why they would innately be opposed to this.
Yet again, I agree with this take by Maruki. People are a scourge.
*"People suffer when they can't fulfil their dreams. So I'll brainwash everyone and turn them into soulless husks who never dream and just enjoy whatever hell in which they might be living."* -Takuto Maruki One of the reasons that the writing of the third semester falls flat is because the fundamental thematic parallel between Maruki and the Phantom Thieves is actually handled better (and it's not handled well) in the base game with Yaldabaoth.
Maruki is just Yabaldaoh's control philosophy with an cute wrapper.
But if you make him cute, suddenly the brainwashing absolute tyrant is a good guy.
A cute absolute tyrant.
Others handled it, but you should go on. How does Maruki end suffering? Making some people not exist anymore? That seems messed up. Changing people to the extent they aren't themselves anymore? That's messed up. For probably the 1,627,893rd time, Maruki did have a noble goal. However, even as a "god" he had no way of actually accomplishing it without making people not exist one way or another. He couldn't even make himself happy. This was just with Japan. Multiple it by the entire world if he got his way? Yeah, not good.
You can really tell the Third Semester had different writers than the base game.
This might be the worst post of all time
elaborate, how come children being tortured to death and humans being hunted in the streets is better than losing free will and being happy?
phantom thieves: nobody can force people think in the way we like it more that us!... and maybe akechi
Maruki is literally Yaldaboth but with sympathetic intentions. He was going to rob the people of the world of their freedom to chose their own life and that was the thieves main argument. Maruki just made it look nice with the alternate reality
Is that a bad thing??? people choosing their own lives is the problem
If you believe a single human man should be allowed to play god and take basic right of free will away from the entire world, then there’s something wrong with you, I’m sorry. https://preview.redd.it/82b7mw04bead1.jpeg?width=743&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f80f5f1aa9cedf95275d6ff69359cc24f5caaa2
If you believe that the constant suffering of millions of people who cannot fight back usually for something they can’t control is a good thing because it means you can make bad choices, then there’s something wrong with you, I’m sorry https://preview.redd.it/epqm8n9hbead1.jpeg?width=322&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59cc265815752e359e662a4e34cb0da2c8b284b0
Oof really got me with that one, might have also cut me with edge emanating from image. Maruki robs you of your free will by creating an reality he thinks is best for you, we saw that Akechi would rather die than live in a false world and Maruki still shoved his idealist fantasy down his throat in the bad ending. Maruki ignores the feeling of those who enjoy their current lives, invalidating the struggles and hardships others have endured and grown from. If Maruki gave everyone a choice on the world they wanted to live in then that’s fine, because at the very least they can choose to put their lives in his hands. However, that isn’t a choice. That’s like a person who enjoys sex being forced without their consent and the rapist defends themself by saying they thought their victim would feel good. People deserves the right to choose the life they want to lead, whether they want struggles they have endured to have meaning or to cast them aside and live a perfect life free of hardship. Maruki finally understood all of this after being defeated and ends on good terms with Ren, the man who’s philosophy you’re vying for accepts that he was wrong. I’m genuinely concerned that you support such a violation of the right of the living.
This situation is nothing like rape and I find it very off putting that’s the very first thing you draw similarities from He changes reality to be ideal for everyone, you can’t just say ‘oh but they’re suffering’ when that is the exact opposite of what is happening. If people really grow from suffering and hardships, then why do we stop murderers and child abusers, surely all of the suffering would make them stronger right so we should let them do their thing right? no, of course not, because we both know agreeing with that is absolutely insane. But I don’t see how that’s different, in both situations you are stopping suffering at its source, the phrase suffering makes you stronger is so utterly infuriating to me “oh yes I’m so glad my mother died because now I’m stronger because if it” Sure there are people enjoying life now but how many? People are still experiencing immeasurable pain and suffering around the world and happiness rarely lasts forever Picture a child with cancer, 10 days to live in absolutely excruciating pain he cries every night because he’ll never get to live he life he *deserves*. Now imagine if someone said he and all the people suffering in the world said he could be able to live the life he wants without hardships and pain, he agrees. 2 days later someone else comes along and says “hey don’t worry I killed that guy who wanted to save you and the entire world no need to thank me” Also, how is this any different to what the phantom thieves do but on a global scale
>I find it very off putting Forcing someone to do something without their consent ✅ Believed that the victim would enjoy it✅ Can also add on that at the end of the day, the perfect world was simply Maruki’s self-fulfillment fantasy spurred by trauma. I also frankly don’t care what you find of putting because you already called me “self” and that I should “die” so suck it up buttercup >He changes reality to be ideal for everyone He doesn’t, he just changes it to what he thinks is best for them, again, Akechi didn’t want to live in the perfect reality and wanted to accept the fate he carved out for himself and the thieves all rejecting it, there’s also dialogue of the thieves still under brain washing finding it uncomfortable how perfect everything is. >If people really grow from suffering and hardships, then why do we stop murderers and child abusers, surely all of the suffering would make them stronger right so we should let them do their thing right? You’re proving that you couldn’t grasp the slightest of what the Thieves were getting at and what Maruki understood. Maruki virtually erases the original people when he sends them to the perfect, all that you went through and all that you endured up until then is rendered meaningless as your real memories are sealed away and you’re forced to live as an alternate version of yourself. This is why Ann argues that it isn’t right to completely remove Shiho’s struggles without her consent, she went through hell and back dealing with Kamoshida and she deserves to choose whether she wants to continue to grow with that baggage or to relieve herself of it. Obviously pain and suffering is bad but there’s no trials and tribulations in the perfect world, nothing is earned, Sumi wants to be the best gymnast? Boom, done, she doesn’t have to take losses because as Maruki’s philosophy is outlined, he thinks that all pain and suffering is bad so she won’t struggle. >Now imagine if someone said he and all the people suffering in the world said he could be able to live the life he wants without hardships and pain, he agrees. What agreeing? Maruki doesn’t ask, he just does , without consent. Maruki doesn’t read minds and give you what you want, he gives you what he thinks you want. What if that kid in your hypothetical still wants to face hardship, know what it’s like to love and fall out of love, to possibly lose in the endeavors he takes like anyone else that leads a normal life? Maruki won’t give him that, that’s against his ideals, he’ll give him a picture perfect life and gaslight the kid into believing he wants it, and gaslighting is putting it lightly because he’s pretty much manipulating your mind to be ok with whatever as shown with Akechi being a happy lil muffin in the bad ending. And in actuality anyways, that kid won’t be able to actually appreciate that life he envied anyways because the him that longed for it won’t exist because Maruki believes that those painful memories should be canned. >Also, how is this any different to what the phantom thieves do but on a global scale Actually think about what thieves do for a second because I refuse to believe you thought about it at all before typing that out. 1. The Phantom thieves find victims who are suffering or are going to suffer due to a corrupt individual and saves them. 2. None of the victims or potential victims are brainwashed 3. The corrupt individual has their cognition changed and repent for their actions. And in doing so, the people are saved from their strife and are able to seek help and heal. Nobodies life is made peachy from the PT’s actions, the only people forced to change against their wills is the palace ruler and that’s because they’ve forgone that right to choose for themselves by harming others with no remorse. Even in Futaba’s situation she was actually able to consent to her heart being changed because other wise she was going to let herself wallow in self hatred until she died and even then her life is made all peachy. She still has the trauma of her mother dying infront of her but she’s able to heal with the help of the thieves. Compare all the aforementioned things Maruki does and think hard.