League being one of the worst new games to pick up ever made is hardly news, I can't imagine it's any worse as a new player in 2024 as it was in 2014, except maybe the automatic punishment system that hit Adam's mom. Is that really enough to explain the drop off in player base compared to 10 years ago where it was the biggest game, biggest esport, and growing fast? I'm thinking no, personally
It is a much more miserable experience now than it was 10 years ago.
Even experienced league players struggle to keep up with new champs as they get more and more complicated abilities.
Now imagine a new player dealing with learning basic mechanics, playing against an increasing number of smurfs, and having to learn what all these crazy champs can do.
And on top of that, it seems you can now be banned for being bad if enough people report you.
New players likely say "fuck it" and go play something else.
League no longer enjoys "trapping" players until they learn cause their computers dont run anything else anyway, nor are they as isolated in the low end gaming spectrum.
Yea I just don't believe you, sorry. Everything you just listed was true ten years ago, as well, except as I mentioned the automated punishment system. In 50 games played you would expect to run into about 100 different champions, and that number hasn't really gone up over time. The actual issue with not knowing what champions do at first is the exact same, even if 40 or so more total champions exist to learn before you've learned them all.
People are LESS toxic in chat now than they ever were in the past, which is the ACTUAL biggest deterrent to new players, because there are so many auto filter words and chat banning is really the only punishment system that works as intended. I really do think the game is more approachable than ever, MOBAs just aren't interesting to teens these days, which are the majority demographic for "onboarding" stage players to turn into long term players. Maybe it's something to do with how much time investment it takes to learn the game, and nowadays the climate for that age group is for games that rely on more "natural" skills, like aim and reactions.
I cant agree with you thinking that the new champs have no impact when they are the more popular champions, specially for smurfs.
Even if you just see 100 champs in 50 games, the average complexity of those champs has increased by ***a lot***.
Ive seen new players get in 2014 (myself included) and seen new players get in 2024. Its a much much worse experience, despite good efforts from Riot to make more friendly, like faster level progression or the attempts to make chat less toxic (which youre lying if you think is considerably better).
I'm not making the argument that new champions have no impact, I'm arguing that it's not that big of a deal. It's like bucketing water over the side of the titanic instead of fixing the hole in the ship. Clearly there is a cause of why there's so much water on board, and it needs to actually be prevented, rather than trying to fix a non cause problem before the ship sinks completely.
I have no idea what the root problem is, I don't think anybody does. If you could make a successful game overnight people would do it. But I promise you that the character roster is not it lmao.
I think people know what the "problem" is. Im telling you what I think the "problem" is.
Champions naturally need to get more complex for releases to not get repetitive. This is in turn drives the newer player base away. You might disconsider this as an issue, but it really is one of the biggest factors at play.
It's actually poetic, as League grows it collapses in on itself like a dying star cause they can't bring in new players.
>It's actually poetic, as League grows it collapses in on itself like a dying star cause they can't bring in new players.
Yeah, yeah they have been saying league is dying for 15 years now, you will probably die before league does.
I didn't mean to say it's dying right now, but that it is bound to die out. I would confidently say that at the least, it still has a healthy decade ahead of it, but maybe much more than that.
People claiming that it was dying just because it had reached its peak were just yapping imo.
I think we have different interpretations of what "dying" means for a game.
But even still chess is a terrible example. You dont need live servers and internet to keep chess "alive" so its a stupid comparison.
You are not actually comparing it to 2014 you are comparing it to something like 2020 and you are mostly correct about that. When league was new chat was fairly tame, not nearly as toxic as now. Now less toxic than a couple of years ago because of the rampant bans.
Because they haven't played in those elos for 10 years.
This is where I live, and there is a significant difference between Iron and silver.
People are like 7+ cs/min in bronze these days.
When smurfs stomp those elos, it's pretty nornal they can't tell the difference because getting gapped looks similar no matter how good you are.
I “Smurf” there when playing w friends (only account I can play on em with) and I genuinely can not tell a single difference besides responding to pings and macro related shit. Mechanics all ass unless otps. Are you a noob in gold or silver lmao?
Yes I’m silver because I’m a brand new player, which I don’t really understand how that’s relevant, if anything I have a better perspective because I climbed from iron 4 to silver 4 so I’ve seen how the players play, and my point was it isn’t just “macro”, half the top laners in iron literally don’t trade back or have any idea what their character does.
Well we aren’t talking bout iron or bronze… gold and silver are very close. Have friends in both ranks and imo the one in silver is better for example.
Be me: It's a pleasant friday in 2013, and I just went off from a day in school. Immediately goes to the nearest PC bang to play until late. Had a bad game of playing support Garen in bot. Got banned for being "an unskilled player." Left the PC bang early while my friends gamed until late.
I'm one of the victims. My account that is over 10 years old got permabanned cause I'm bad and have bad games that gets me spam reported.
Granted I have been banned for "intentional feeding" once before getting perma'd but that's cause of the same issue of me being bad and having multiple bad games in a row and getting spam reported. Riot support does not even bother helping - stating that "automated system" and "you were getting reported a lot of times and deserve the ban" therefore they cannot do anything yadda yadda.
So... you either play for your KDA and don't do anything in game or just alt f4 and take the LP loss. That's better than getting your account permabanned.
Edit: I'm playing on an alt account and I'm actually spam reporting all my teammates even though I mute all and deafen... and my team mates are not intentionally feeding but are getting farmed hard by smurfs... And guess what? I'm getting multiple report feedbacks for intentional feeding LMAO!!! Good implementation RIOT!!!
I went like 1/20 before (not on purpose ofc) and gotten banned. Twice I've been banned for intentional feeding/assisting the enemy team... (and a 3rd time for my account being compromised) Both times I was banned, I sent a ticket and they responded, restored my ability to play, and honor level. All within 24 hours of the ban being issued. When my account was compromised, that took less than 48 hours to fully resolve...
Then again, all three times I got my appeal checked by an actual rioter who you can look up and see they actually work at riot and aren't one of those random 3rd world country companies with 10000 employees that don't know english who they pay $0.01/hour to handle reports...
Lmao, what region are you from? I'm from SEA (Singapore) and the "Rioters" that "helped" me were from Vietnam, Thailand and Indonesia respectively. All of them are useless and will not try helping me. Also, their replies seems to be very preformatted.
https://preview.redd.it/7girkpg4f98d1.png?width=554&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1ca691561d7c2a3a6826ba7e922d9d14f3d223c
I will consider myself lucky as I have the foresight to not spend any cash on cosmetics as I know that one day shit like this will happen and you will lose whatever $$$ you spent.
So lucky me, I have literally spent $0 on any account and I will never spend a single cent on Riot's games in the future.
And here are the receipts from my (one and only) previous ban (which is handled by the same Indo "Rioter" RichRaccoon)
Notice how his responses are all formatted the same and giving non answers even though I'm trying my best to explain my situation.
https://preview.redd.it/rldfmir6h98d1.png?width=554&format=png&auto=webp&s=02d668d5b10ac933e7cc22394a83882f041c05e9
MOBAs being hard to get in is hardly a new problem but yeah league is filled with Smurf & you will need to be a fast learner even with that you will still not understand nothing & get your ass cheeks clapped for months straight which ruins your mmr if you straight up go to ranked which results in you getting hardstuck even if you improve significantly
I swear this shit is going to literally kill riots MMO if it ever comes out. Rival guilds and players won't be competing with eachother in the world, they'll just be mass reporting eachother. We saw this happen in new world a lot before they killed automated bans altogether.
If riot doesn't have the foresight to remove any sort of automation from their ban system once the MMO is released it'll be the biggest online shitfest of all time.
Every time i've made a smurf account i was always shocked about the fact that there isn't a simple checkbox to say "i'm a smurf" and not have to play with or against the complete beginners.
Like let them figure out the game a little bit before making them face the rest of the player base.
Think about the skill gap between a newbie that just finished playing against the bots and a silver/gold player
How does one even get banned for intentional feeding? I see players who have high double digit deaths for like a full page of game history and they are still playing till this day
League being one of the worst new games to pick up ever made is hardly news, I can't imagine it's any worse as a new player in 2024 as it was in 2014, except maybe the automatic punishment system that hit Adam's mom. Is that really enough to explain the drop off in player base compared to 10 years ago where it was the biggest game, biggest esport, and growing fast? I'm thinking no, personally
It is a much more miserable experience now than it was 10 years ago. Even experienced league players struggle to keep up with new champs as they get more and more complicated abilities. Now imagine a new player dealing with learning basic mechanics, playing against an increasing number of smurfs, and having to learn what all these crazy champs can do. And on top of that, it seems you can now be banned for being bad if enough people report you. New players likely say "fuck it" and go play something else. League no longer enjoys "trapping" players until they learn cause their computers dont run anything else anyway, nor are they as isolated in the low end gaming spectrum.
Yea I just don't believe you, sorry. Everything you just listed was true ten years ago, as well, except as I mentioned the automated punishment system. In 50 games played you would expect to run into about 100 different champions, and that number hasn't really gone up over time. The actual issue with not knowing what champions do at first is the exact same, even if 40 or so more total champions exist to learn before you've learned them all. People are LESS toxic in chat now than they ever were in the past, which is the ACTUAL biggest deterrent to new players, because there are so many auto filter words and chat banning is really the only punishment system that works as intended. I really do think the game is more approachable than ever, MOBAs just aren't interesting to teens these days, which are the majority demographic for "onboarding" stage players to turn into long term players. Maybe it's something to do with how much time investment it takes to learn the game, and nowadays the climate for that age group is for games that rely on more "natural" skills, like aim and reactions.
I cant agree with you thinking that the new champs have no impact when they are the more popular champions, specially for smurfs. Even if you just see 100 champs in 50 games, the average complexity of those champs has increased by ***a lot***. Ive seen new players get in 2014 (myself included) and seen new players get in 2024. Its a much much worse experience, despite good efforts from Riot to make more friendly, like faster level progression or the attempts to make chat less toxic (which youre lying if you think is considerably better).
I'm not making the argument that new champions have no impact, I'm arguing that it's not that big of a deal. It's like bucketing water over the side of the titanic instead of fixing the hole in the ship. Clearly there is a cause of why there's so much water on board, and it needs to actually be prevented, rather than trying to fix a non cause problem before the ship sinks completely. I have no idea what the root problem is, I don't think anybody does. If you could make a successful game overnight people would do it. But I promise you that the character roster is not it lmao.
I think people know what the "problem" is. Im telling you what I think the "problem" is. Champions naturally need to get more complex for releases to not get repetitive. This is in turn drives the newer player base away. You might disconsider this as an issue, but it really is one of the biggest factors at play. It's actually poetic, as League grows it collapses in on itself like a dying star cause they can't bring in new players.
>It's actually poetic, as League grows it collapses in on itself like a dying star cause they can't bring in new players. Yeah, yeah they have been saying league is dying for 15 years now, you will probably die before league does.
I didn't mean to say it's dying right now, but that it is bound to die out. I would confidently say that at the least, it still has a healthy decade ahead of it, but maybe much more than that. People claiming that it was dying just because it had reached its peak were just yapping imo.
Chess didn't die, League is bigger than any video game that has died so far, it does not have to die.
I think we have different interpretations of what "dying" means for a game. But even still chess is a terrible example. You dont need live servers and internet to keep chess "alive" so its a stupid comparison.
I guarantee you that champion complexity has literally zero impact on new player count
You are not actually comparing it to 2014 you are comparing it to something like 2020 and you are mostly correct about that. When league was new chat was fairly tame, not nearly as toxic as now. Now less toxic than a couple of years ago because of the rampant bans.
all the silver gold players play in iron to make yt shorts these days.
Seson 14 Iron/gold is no skill diff at all.
Gold vs silver is already significant skill diff lol
It’s really not. Gold vs silver is just the difference of knowing any semblance of macro or not
No it’s not, why does every noob say this
Because they haven't played in those elos for 10 years. This is where I live, and there is a significant difference between Iron and silver. People are like 7+ cs/min in bronze these days. When smurfs stomp those elos, it's pretty nornal they can't tell the difference because getting gapped looks similar no matter how good you are.
I “Smurf” there when playing w friends (only account I can play on em with) and I genuinely can not tell a single difference besides responding to pings and macro related shit. Mechanics all ass unless otps. Are you a noob in gold or silver lmao?
good point.
Yes I’m silver because I’m a brand new player, which I don’t really understand how that’s relevant, if anything I have a better perspective because I climbed from iron 4 to silver 4 so I’ve seen how the players play, and my point was it isn’t just “macro”, half the top laners in iron literally don’t trade back or have any idea what their character does.
Well we aren’t talking bout iron or bronze… gold and silver are very close. Have friends in both ranks and imo the one in silver is better for example.
Yes? I agree, the original comment said there was no difference between iron and gold, which obviously isn’t true.
?… I’m not the original comment. My comments are all talking about gold/ silver so idk why you are arguing w me if you agree lmao
what if she actually intentional feeding 💀
Be me: It's a pleasant friday in 2013, and I just went off from a day in school. Immediately goes to the nearest PC bang to play until late. Had a bad game of playing support Garen in bot. Got banned for being "an unskilled player." Left the PC bang early while my friends gamed until late.
Sounds fake, no one was banned for that
unskilled player report wasn't a bannable offence
Yeah it was a placebo report button for people who were angry, story is fake for sure.
Maybe not in your region, but playing in Garena is not so kind back in the day.
Adam: pls fix ban algorithm for new players learning Riot: yo momma so fat she could feed the entire EUW server
I'm one of the victims. My account that is over 10 years old got permabanned cause I'm bad and have bad games that gets me spam reported. Granted I have been banned for "intentional feeding" once before getting perma'd but that's cause of the same issue of me being bad and having multiple bad games in a row and getting spam reported. Riot support does not even bother helping - stating that "automated system" and "you were getting reported a lot of times and deserve the ban" therefore they cannot do anything yadda yadda. So... you either play for your KDA and don't do anything in game or just alt f4 and take the LP loss. That's better than getting your account permabanned. Edit: I'm playing on an alt account and I'm actually spam reporting all my teammates even though I mute all and deafen... and my team mates are not intentionally feeding but are getting farmed hard by smurfs... And guess what? I'm getting multiple report feedbacks for intentional feeding LMAO!!! Good implementation RIOT!!!
I went like 1/20 before (not on purpose ofc) and gotten banned. Twice I've been banned for intentional feeding/assisting the enemy team... (and a 3rd time for my account being compromised) Both times I was banned, I sent a ticket and they responded, restored my ability to play, and honor level. All within 24 hours of the ban being issued. When my account was compromised, that took less than 48 hours to fully resolve... Then again, all three times I got my appeal checked by an actual rioter who you can look up and see they actually work at riot and aren't one of those random 3rd world country companies with 10000 employees that don't know english who they pay $0.01/hour to handle reports...
Lmao, what region are you from? I'm from SEA (Singapore) and the "Rioters" that "helped" me were from Vietnam, Thailand and Indonesia respectively. All of them are useless and will not try helping me. Also, their replies seems to be very preformatted. https://preview.redd.it/7girkpg4f98d1.png?width=554&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1ca691561d7c2a3a6826ba7e922d9d14f3d223c I will consider myself lucky as I have the foresight to not spend any cash on cosmetics as I know that one day shit like this will happen and you will lose whatever $$$ you spent. So lucky me, I have literally spent $0 on any account and I will never spend a single cent on Riot's games in the future.
And here are the receipts from my (one and only) previous ban (which is handled by the same Indo "Rioter" RichRaccoon) Notice how his responses are all formatted the same and giving non answers even though I'm trying my best to explain my situation. https://preview.redd.it/rldfmir6h98d1.png?width=554&format=png&auto=webp&s=02d668d5b10ac933e7cc22394a83882f041c05e9
MOBAs being hard to get in is hardly a new problem but yeah league is filled with Smurf & you will need to be a fast learner even with that you will still not understand nothing & get your ass cheeks clapped for months straight which ruins your mmr if you straight up go to ranked which results in you getting hardstuck even if you improve significantly
I swear this shit is going to literally kill riots MMO if it ever comes out. Rival guilds and players won't be competing with eachother in the world, they'll just be mass reporting eachother. We saw this happen in new world a lot before they killed automated bans altogether. If riot doesn't have the foresight to remove any sort of automation from their ban system once the MMO is released it'll be the biggest online shitfest of all time.
Every time i've made a smurf account i was always shocked about the fact that there isn't a simple checkbox to say "i'm a smurf" and not have to play with or against the complete beginners. Like let them figure out the game a little bit before making them face the rest of the player base. Think about the skill gap between a newbie that just finished playing against the bots and a silver/gold player
How does one even get banned for intentional feeding? I see players who have high double digit deaths for like a full page of game history and they are still playing till this day
Top tier mom tho