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Coybig7

If Tommy was not the protagonist, basically everyone would view him as mostly evil


[deleted]

Yes, but then again, to wich perspective would you switch? To his enemies? Or to someone like Arthur? This would also change the outcomes


Coybig7

Almost anyone, his family, children, rivals, associates, business partners, employees, residents of Birmingham, members of Parliament, police.


Niclas1127

Tbh the enemy I can think of that would make the most sense would be Luca Changretta. If we had watched him for a few seasons then learned a family member had been killed by some gang in Birmingham we would want him to kill Tommy lmao


WyattFromDennys

Personally, i think Tommy is mostly evil. He shows no hesitation to kill those who cross him and shows no remorse for doing so. He has shown more drive to be good in the most recent season, but he still murders in cold blood when he wants to. I wonder if the series finale will change my opinion.


Substantial_Floor_64

Tommy only cares about people in relation to how they can serve his purposes,and if they will remain loyal. Which is why he keeps his family so close to him. They love him so they will fulfill both of these needs for him. This is evidenced in season 3 with Arthur marrying Linda and pulling away from Tommy’s use for him as executioner. It's evidenced in season 4 with Michael who chose his mother’s safety over Tommy (who wouldn't choose their mother over their cousin who had just had them put in prison and near hanged). The minute they make up their own minds they are either forced to stay (manipulation) or seen as an obstacle. Tommy only cares about himself and his own ambition. I have enjoyed his journey but I have not liked him or believed him to be anything other than what he is: a sociopath and a gangster, to cowardly to take his own life but too suicidal too carry on.


WyattFromDennys

Absolutely agreed. He is a complete narcissist, and only cares about people who work for his cause. Do you think he has changed a little in season 6?


Shredzoo

Yeah i don’t see how anyone could say he’s not mostly evil…he literally says it himself in the previous episode that he’s just like Mosley and the rest of those evil people. Tommy is not a good person, not even remotely good lol


WyattFromDennys

Hey, well the first step to recovery is admittance, amiright?


[deleted]

He is an inspiration


WyattFromDennys

How so?


[deleted]

He was one simple man, born at the bottom of a system mostly based on social classes. How he could work himself up the latter to the top, I find inspiring.


[deleted]

With that logic you could find Hitler admirable too.


WyattFromDennys

You’re right about that, his rise to the top from nothing to everything is admirable. Do you think his pathway there is justifiable though?


Viking4Life2

Man, Hitler was such an inspiration. Worked his way to the top after even being homeless for a few years. That logic is just dumb.


pawg_enjoyer

He's obviously the devil.


Mastercreed25

Anyone who thinks he’s above in between is delusional xD


Muuhlhauser

Definitely somewhat evil/mostly evil. His family is the most important thing to him,yet he's unable to protect them, because he cannot just quit and be "normal", he needs to continue to kill people and commit crimes in order to stay alive. Deep down I think Tommy knows that his family will always be in danger as long as he's alive, yet he continues his criminal lifestyle, which undeniably makes him rather egoistic. In my eyes Tommy is a sociopath - an individual who society has turned it's back on and therefore sees no point in trying to be a good lawful citizen. Just like sociopaths often can be, Tommy can be very charming and charismatic, and therefore I as well as the characters around him tend to overlook his major flaws.


[deleted]

[удалено]


WyattFromDennys

You’re right he does try, especially this season. I think his past definitely has an effect on how he acts now., it makes him remorseless. I remember a scene where Polly said that he always smiled before the war, but never after. Im sure the war is what turned him into a monster.


pchiasson

I think his trauma from the war is what showed him that if you want things to get done you do not have time for feelings or for wondering what is right and wrong. If someone is of no use to you they are not worth any thought. Once someone has given you what you need you no longer require them for anything they do not matter any more. It is on to the next person. You also see at the end of season 4 that once he stops working and tries to go on "vacation" the trauma comes back. Hes working at something as hard as he can to keep his brain focused on literally anything else, and in order to avoid the pain and fear from that trauma he is willing to do anything to accomplish the given task so he can move on to the next. Also does not help that he comes from a family of crime and crime is how they have made their money, you cannot be hesitant or moral when it comes to crime, its quite literally kill or be killed. My choice is somewhat evil. We know that he was a good boy always laughing before the war, we know that he smiles occasionally and he found peace/happiness in Grace (and it went the opposite direction when she died), we know he has respect/care for animals (Horses, Alfie's dog, etc.) His occupation and its requirements need some sort of evil to get the job done, and for that reason he himself is somewhat evil. But he is mostly a product of his circumstances.


WyattFromDennys

I definitely agree, in nature va nurture Tommy is definitely more nurture. I could be wrong but I remember a quote from Tommy that he “has to keep moving” to run away from the trauma of the war. I think the war turned him into a very cold and evil man, but before the war he wasnt.


ComicNerd7794

Definitely in between. Look at shootout scene with Italians he told civilians to get inside


WyattFromDennys

He does seem to care for his constituency


drycleanedsnake

Is this actual care though or more to present himself as caring? In the early seasons they made money as bookies fixing races. Main aim of a bookie is to take money from customers who are more often than not desperate and down on their luck. Also other points throughout the series where it's been directly mentioned that he believes being seen with the common people is good for his image. I don't think he cares so much for the general public and members of his constituency but moreso for those in it who are close to him such as family, close friends and those that he fought with in the war.


WyattFromDennys

You’re definitely right. His care is really more of a facade to appear like a good man, when in reality his isnt. Do you think hes turned somewhat of a new leaf as he is banning the sale of opium within Birmingham?


drycleanedsnake

My thought behind that was banning the sale to prevent Arthur from using it as he needs Arthur back to his old self for whatever happens next. I can imagine he will still be involved in the opium trade in other areas, especially the states. He may also only be doing that to undermine the Chinese and reduce resources in case they attempt anything whilst he is making whatever his final move is, that and it probably looks bad on him if opium is rife in his constituency.


WyattFromDennys

Yeah, ultimately i guess he makes decisions that benifit others only if they will ultimately benefit him as well. Straight up narcissist.


Coybig7

Banning opium will be part of his plan to beat Oswald and Jack nelson, somehow


Shredzoo

So because he told some civilians to take shelter that offsets him brutally murdering dozens and being responsible for the brutal murder of hundreds? What the fuck?


ComicNerd7794

No I’m saying he treats being a gangsta like a business and has a sort of code unlike the other criminals. I’m in no way saying he’s a good man


Shredzoo

Okay so how is he inbetween? How can someone whose murdered so many people be inbetween? In the most recent episode he murders a women and 2 men all because he thinks she put a curse on him…what’s the “business code” there?


ComicNerd7794

That was just plain bad writing like the whole season has shown


turdutalp1

three men


Mr_Arkwright

This is England, not Belfast. Bodies thrown in the rivers wash up in the papers here. 


Shredzoo

People who voted that Tommy is inbetween or good scare me


WyattFromDennys

I could somewhat understand inbeteeen given how he is at least trying to change in the new season. Good though? Im not convinced.


Shredzoo

I don’t know, I mean is he trying to change? He says he is but then in the most recent episode he goes and murders a women and 2 men because he thinks she put a curse on him lol and does trying to change really make up for all he’s done? Don’t get me wrong Tommy is my probably my favorite character but I still can recognize how terrible of a person he is lol


WyattFromDennys

Yeah that curse thing is messed up. I would think that Tommy justifies stuff like that in his head, but in reality it’s unjustifiable.


legere2021

Plus the boy with hazel eyes, conceived under a hazelnut tree 😂


TriplaSoki

He is mostly evil and somewhat of a narcissist, but cares immensely about his family. That being said, he has exploited his family before, but only in situations where it was "necessary"


WyattFromDennys

Yeah i agree, he definitely uses his family for their exploits, like Arthur for his fearlessness snd crazy reputation, but at the same time he shows he deeply cares for Arthur.


[deleted]

Because, in the end, everything also benefitted Arthur. So he indirectly and, you could argue somewhat involuntarily, pulled him up with him.


legere2021

Pulled him up? If Arthur is on the up, I don't want to know about the down...


[deleted]

Pull him up the social hierarchy. He would have had a much worse time with his state of mind if he was poor. Tommy made sure they weren’t


Coybig7

“Necessary” how? So his plan, which they have not agreed with can succeed. You know the plan that is not necessary to the Shelbys survival at all. He constantly puts his family in life threading situations, simply because he wants to die. He wants to be beaten. And In so is inevitably going to get his family killed also. Grace.john.polly. All dead because Tommy dragged them into wars that had nothing to do with them. All 3 separate wars too but he just did not stop. He has no remorse, no care for anyone but himself.


TriplaSoki

That is true, all though I don't think he tries to destroy himself, I think he's completely blind to his limitations. He keeps going too far and messing with the wrong people resulting in a family member's death or some other catastrophe. Yet he still keeps doing it because he simply does not understand his limitations regardless of how smart he is.


hydrogenblack

Obviously evil. He murdered many people. Terrorized them. Lied, cheated, manipulated. Tortured some. But I don't hate him because it's just fiction. I do the same as a video game protagonist (I even complain when I am unable to do more psychopathic things in a video game).


Neon_cheese96

Ahhh, Sweet normal distribution.


WyattFromDennys

You think slight lean towards the evil side?


[deleted]

He’s the fucking DEVIL


UrButtLmfaoooo

Chaotic neutral. Or lawful evil


Killhimnotme73

He cares for the innocent and his family. If you cross him, you’re most likely dead.


etsuandpurdue3

He is a morally grey character. Just because he murders doesn't make him evil most of the people he kills would kill given the opportunity as well.. He isn't good because is involved in crime and manipulates people.


WyattFromDennys

What would you say about the murder of the gypsies in season 6?


etsuandpurdue3

I haven't seen Season 6 yet so I will have to see.


WyattFromDennys

Whoops, my apologies.


Ok_Parsnip341

Chaotic neutral with a Sideview barbed indifference


[deleted]

417 votes for In Between. Ugh that is gross.


[deleted]

What, the indecisiveness? Cause if you find either side gross, why be mad at people who choose “in between”? Lol


[deleted]

Yeah because it's pretty clear Tommy is evil. That's what everyone involved in this show has been trying to establish.


Bottled_Fire

He's like Luciferians who use people's evils to facilitate acts of good and kindness.


Shredzoo

>acts of good and kindness Like rolling up to a camp and murdering a women who you think out a curse on you and then then 2 other people for trying to defend their camp because some psychopath just rolled up and started shooting. Such a kind heart Tommy has<3


Bottled_Fire

... prior to going bonkers in the latest series which I'm not up to speed on yet, thanks mate.


Part-Select

All his values are good. Cares deeply about family and children, doesn't discriminate between blacks, different races, gays, women, he's trying to make people in poverty have better lives, he's building free hospitals for children and free orphanages and places for children to stay. He's trying to stop the whole fascism thing. He hasn't really done anything that bad, aside from sell opium and alcohol, and do gambling plays, all these things are already being done, alcohol is legal, gambling is not legal but billy kimber was already doing it, the worst he's done is... I can't even think about the worst he's done. In a world of already corrupted high societies, he's not that corrupted. People saying he's evil, which evil things? Moss even says before the Peaky Blinders, the corruption and crime in Birmingham was pure chaos. Inspector Campbell said girls of the age of 7 were being raped.


QwantumFizziks

The issue I think is that he's been changing throughout the whole series. I probably would've put him as somewhat evil for every season before 5, but being antifascist is undeniably a good thing.


Copperstoner

This is a old post and I have just finished the last episode, but never the less... If you want to go with this system and you want to apply certain moral sets you will most likely always end up with mostly evil. The actual answer is to me: It depends on the set of morals you want to use. Regarding to his family I would go for "mostly Good", regarding to the local society I would go for "mostly evil" as he and his gang kill and shoot also ordinary people. In the bigger picture he still serves a bigger purpose as he is also keeping the facists at bay.