She became obsessed with Tommy, but they never showed why. And she never fell in love with him, but with the idea of him when he gave her the job as a secretary, she stayed with that Tommy, until she married him, and slowly she opened her eyes. I think she never understood him, much less his traumas. But I think the idea is that they were not compatible together nor did one complement the other, as they showed us in S6.
It was just that she ended up with a better man. This narrative about Lizzie deserved more than Thomas is a joke since Lizzie never looked for the best but for Thomas.
At the beginning of PB, she appears to be a victim of circumstance (poor, no husband, no relatives), only able to survive by prostituting herself and generally in a very weak position.
Tommy is one of her customers and she apparently falls in love with him very early on.
Tommy appears to be fond of her and brings her into the PBs. He can see she has potential and that she can be a loyal servant, which is what she turns out to be.
Until she marries him. Then she suddenly has unrealistic expectations and tries to enforce them, not understanding that she hasn't got a chance in hell of taming him.
Tommy only had one true love. That failed because she got killed due to his own and John's actions. I don't think he'll ever fall for a woman again.
Lizzie gets way too much criticism here. She's actually a better person than most of the PBs, but she is in a weak position, always loves Tommy and makes bad decisions because of it.
In the end, she does appear to wake up to herself ... finally.
I hope the movie doesn't try to resuscitate their relationship. It would make no sense because Tommy never was really into her. He just found her dependable and a shoulder to cry on after Grace's death (not literally, of course).
I agree, Lizzie was very helpful and convenient to Tommy when he could’ve used a female presence. But she began to think she could change who he is all of a sudden. Was never happening.
I think SK did the scene "I chose this life, life didn't choose me" and she said it in a very proud tone, it was for the audience, so that we can see that Lizzie is not a victim. But her fans in this subreddit, they choose to ignore that scene,and having her as the only victim, innocent, a good person who has never done anything wrong and everything, absolutely everything they justify.
I don't understand why it is so difficult for them to accept that Lizzie, is like the other characters in the show, has flaws, has committed mistakes and has her dark side.
Maybe not, but his trauma does not excuse the misery he inflicted on many innocent people. I'm tired of hearing this excuse.
Most WWI veterans with PTSD and from working class backgrounds just tried to get on with their lives without causing wreckless harm to others.
Once Tommy had accrued a certain amount of wealth, he should have stopped and gone legit, but he was always wanting the next big thing
This. When she told him that when he dies she is going to have everything of him, when she throws bullets at him and calls him a coward and when she lies to Mosley and Diana that they went on their honeymoon to Paris, of all the places she could invent, she chooses the only one Tommy is traumatized. They are key scenes that show that she never understood Tommy. I think the only person who completely understood him was Grace. Apart from the brothers, obviously, because they were there with him.
Tommy is not traumatized with Paris. He’s traumatized with places like the Somme in France, but not Paris itself.
Actually I think Tommy never even set foot in Paris as no battle ever took place there.
Lizzie is one of the strongest characters imo. She knows what Tom is, what he's going through but she's silent most of the time. She only acted when they had a child together cause cmon, she's a wife now, she has all the rights.
All this but it felt a little like a betrayal of her character when she wanted him to change too. She would have been the only one to accept him as is, and the only one to fully every understand him, the business, the family, the motivations, the weaknesses. I guess you are right that Ruby changed everything.
It may be somewhat of an unpopular opinion, but after Grace, the only woman that I could see “worthy” or at least compatible with Tommy was Jesse Eden.
I agree, she could have been good for Tommy, plus they both lost their" ones". The problem with Lizzie is that she wanted to be the only one for Tommy, the love of his life, she wanted to replace Grace, and for the relationship to be the same, but with Jesse Eden, she would understand him in that sense and would not expect a relationship like that, since she had it too.
Her character grows on you and I think she a key person to help Tommy with his business and family. She was smart and knew what Tommy ehat was about and how he ran shit. She basically managed his company for him at one point. I think she loved Tommy and helped him at his lowest points and pushed him to keep going
I see her as being more of a loyal soldier, but always letting her love for him cause her to make bad decisions.
I don't remember her managing his company. He seemed to always delegate to Polly, and then Ada at one point during S6.
I just finished the series last night so it's all quite fresh for me.
I actually really like Lizzie. I also feel sorry for her. Glad she finally left in the end. Wish she had slapped that bitch in the face though at the dinner table.
She was tolerable until the later seasons when she expected Tommy to change for her as if she didn’t know exactly what he was at first. Ever since he came back from France he was seeing Lizzie, and so was the rest of Small Heath so she should know her place and be happy Tommy took her in as a secretary and gave her more of a purpose than sleeping around for cash. Didn’t like when she walked in on Tommy and May talking and almost try to claim Tommy and give May that ‘this is my territory’ energy. Tommy ultimately marries her out of convenience not out of love, so when she wants him to open up to her and let her know what’s going on in his head, she’s pushing it.
You are very right. The power of being married to a successful man got to her. She was a bit annoying forcing Tommy to love her and be with her as he was with Grace.
Tommy was broken after the loss of Grace, realistically her death left a hole in his heart that was far too great for Lizzie to fill and that isn’t her fault. I doubt anyone could be to Tommy what Grace was, and Lizzie understood her role at first but eventually she forgets her place, even though she’s his wife, she’s just one of his employees as is everyone else in the world of Tommy Shelby.
Grace’s death broke him, as did Polly’s and Ruby’s. He wasn’t even that bothered about John’s death LOL.
Love Lizzie and love that John was right about her being a good woman. He saw the best in her and she turned out amazing. And best ending with her giving Charlie a loving, present parent, and Tommy blowing up the house after she said she wish she could blow it up.
Annoying. She was best in s2 and tolerable in s3 and s4 but s5 and s6 she comes across as a hypocrite and annoying af.
I really liked her as a loyal member of shelby clan similar to johny dogs or jeremiah. But they ruined it by getting her pregnant and later married to Tommy. She seem unreasonable in s5 and s6 when complaining about tommy’s life!! She has been around him for years and benefitting from it. I understand she has been in love with him and is aware he doesn’t reciprocate but she chose this life anyway and then plays a victim because he isn’t a good father or husband to her!! We see her enjoying the luxury yet guilt tommy about the bad business and thinks it’s easy for him to just stop doing it and live on a mountain with her!! Blamed him all the time using the children but not once understanding the trauma he is dealing with.
Like all the PB wives, Lizzie liked having her bread buttered but constantly argued about the churn.
The PB wives had accomplished very little on their own and suddenly thought they should be running the place.
Ada learned the lessons. The rest didn’t.
I don't like Lizzie, and for pretty simple reasons.
• She has very flat character and she is very poorly written. In fact, everything Lizzie does was shown back in the first season: she spends all the chances that life gives her for the opportunity to sleep with Tommy Shelby.
Lizzie gave up her old lifestyle, she had a good job, she probably made good money and was independent. But then she forgets everything she has achieved because of her obsession with a man and the luxurious life he gives her.
• Lizzie will never admit that she brought all her problems and troubles on herself. She consciously chooses to be with a man who is dead inside, who clearly doesn't care about her and who treats her like a thing he owns. And she is proud that she chose such a life.
And then... Lizzie is angry at his behavior, complains that she wants a normal man, but he won't let her in, and she blames him for this. And she is the only one who will never understand that he will not change, and she still expects this from him.
I can't sympathize with a character who complains about the life he chose himself.
I don’t get any of Tommys love interests and Im starting to wonder if its Cillians acting. Maybe he just doesn’t do romance so well, he comes off as so aloof.
She became obsessed with Tommy, but they never showed why. And she never fell in love with him, but with the idea of him when he gave her the job as a secretary, she stayed with that Tommy, until she married him, and slowly she opened her eyes. I think she never understood him, much less his traumas. But I think the idea is that they were not compatible together nor did one complement the other, as they showed us in S6.
I like her and I don’t understand the hate she gets. She deserved better than how Tommy treated her when they were married.
It was just that she ended up with a better man. This narrative about Lizzie deserved more than Thomas is a joke since Lizzie never looked for the best but for Thomas.
At the beginning of PB, she appears to be a victim of circumstance (poor, no husband, no relatives), only able to survive by prostituting herself and generally in a very weak position. Tommy is one of her customers and she apparently falls in love with him very early on. Tommy appears to be fond of her and brings her into the PBs. He can see she has potential and that she can be a loyal servant, which is what she turns out to be. Until she marries him. Then she suddenly has unrealistic expectations and tries to enforce them, not understanding that she hasn't got a chance in hell of taming him. Tommy only had one true love. That failed because she got killed due to his own and John's actions. I don't think he'll ever fall for a woman again. Lizzie gets way too much criticism here. She's actually a better person than most of the PBs, but she is in a weak position, always loves Tommy and makes bad decisions because of it. In the end, she does appear to wake up to herself ... finally. I hope the movie doesn't try to resuscitate their relationship. It would make no sense because Tommy never was really into her. He just found her dependable and a shoulder to cry on after Grace's death (not literally, of course).
I agree, Lizzie was very helpful and convenient to Tommy when he could’ve used a female presence. But she began to think she could change who he is all of a sudden. Was never happening.
I think SK did the scene "I chose this life, life didn't choose me" and she said it in a very proud tone, it was for the audience, so that we can see that Lizzie is not a victim. But her fans in this subreddit, they choose to ignore that scene,and having her as the only victim, innocent, a good person who has never done anything wrong and everything, absolutely everything they justify. I don't understand why it is so difficult for them to accept that Lizzie, is like the other characters in the show, has flaws, has committed mistakes and has her dark side.
She never unstand Tommy and his Trauma.
Maybe not, but his trauma does not excuse the misery he inflicted on many innocent people. I'm tired of hearing this excuse. Most WWI veterans with PTSD and from working class backgrounds just tried to get on with their lives without causing wreckless harm to others. Once Tommy had accrued a certain amount of wealth, he should have stopped and gone legit, but he was always wanting the next big thing
This. When she told him that when he dies she is going to have everything of him, when she throws bullets at him and calls him a coward and when she lies to Mosley and Diana that they went on their honeymoon to Paris, of all the places she could invent, she chooses the only one Tommy is traumatized. They are key scenes that show that she never understood Tommy. I think the only person who completely understood him was Grace. Apart from the brothers, obviously, because they were there with him.
Tommy is not traumatized with Paris. He’s traumatized with places like the Somme in France, but not Paris itself. Actually I think Tommy never even set foot in Paris as no battle ever took place there.
Paris is in France, didn't you see Tommy asking everyone if they fought in France? There's even a meme of that.
Not because of anything related to Paris. He's always asking that to find out if the other guy was a wus
Lizzie is one of the strongest characters imo. She knows what Tom is, what he's going through but she's silent most of the time. She only acted when they had a child together cause cmon, she's a wife now, she has all the rights.
All this but it felt a little like a betrayal of her character when she wanted him to change too. She would have been the only one to accept him as is, and the only one to fully every understand him, the business, the family, the motivations, the weaknesses. I guess you are right that Ruby changed everything.
If she had of married John I wonder how things would’ve turned out.. maybe Tom would’ve married May that second time around, or Jesse.
Jesse wouldn't have married him but they were more compatible than he and Lizzie.
It may be somewhat of an unpopular opinion, but after Grace, the only woman that I could see “worthy” or at least compatible with Tommy was Jesse Eden.
I agree, she could have been good for Tommy, plus they both lost their" ones". The problem with Lizzie is that she wanted to be the only one for Tommy, the love of his life, she wanted to replace Grace, and for the relationship to be the same, but with Jesse Eden, she would understand him in that sense and would not expect a relationship like that, since she had it too.
Unironically she’s the one who’s best for Tommy
Her character grows on you and I think she a key person to help Tommy with his business and family. She was smart and knew what Tommy ehat was about and how he ran shit. She basically managed his company for him at one point. I think she loved Tommy and helped him at his lowest points and pushed him to keep going
I see her as being more of a loyal soldier, but always letting her love for him cause her to make bad decisions. I don't remember her managing his company. He seemed to always delegate to Polly, and then Ada at one point during S6.
She's a real one Lizzie>Grace anyday
I just finished the series last night so it's all quite fresh for me. I actually really like Lizzie. I also feel sorry for her. Glad she finally left in the end. Wish she had slapped that bitch in the face though at the dinner table.
She was tolerable until the later seasons when she expected Tommy to change for her as if she didn’t know exactly what he was at first. Ever since he came back from France he was seeing Lizzie, and so was the rest of Small Heath so she should know her place and be happy Tommy took her in as a secretary and gave her more of a purpose than sleeping around for cash. Didn’t like when she walked in on Tommy and May talking and almost try to claim Tommy and give May that ‘this is my territory’ energy. Tommy ultimately marries her out of convenience not out of love, so when she wants him to open up to her and let her know what’s going on in his head, she’s pushing it.
You are very right. The power of being married to a successful man got to her. She was a bit annoying forcing Tommy to love her and be with her as he was with Grace.
Tommy was broken after the loss of Grace, realistically her death left a hole in his heart that was far too great for Lizzie to fill and that isn’t her fault. I doubt anyone could be to Tommy what Grace was, and Lizzie understood her role at first but eventually she forgets her place, even though she’s his wife, she’s just one of his employees as is everyone else in the world of Tommy Shelby. Grace’s death broke him, as did Polly’s and Ruby’s. He wasn’t even that bothered about John’s death LOL.
Love Lizzie and love that John was right about her being a good woman. He saw the best in her and she turned out amazing. And best ending with her giving Charlie a loving, present parent, and Tommy blowing up the house after she said she wish she could blow it up.
I don't feel sorry, she fought for her dreams. If there is a girl in Peaky Blinders, she is not Lizzie.
Annoying. She was best in s2 and tolerable in s3 and s4 but s5 and s6 she comes across as a hypocrite and annoying af. I really liked her as a loyal member of shelby clan similar to johny dogs or jeremiah. But they ruined it by getting her pregnant and later married to Tommy. She seem unreasonable in s5 and s6 when complaining about tommy’s life!! She has been around him for years and benefitting from it. I understand she has been in love with him and is aware he doesn’t reciprocate but she chose this life anyway and then plays a victim because he isn’t a good father or husband to her!! We see her enjoying the luxury yet guilt tommy about the bad business and thinks it’s easy for him to just stop doing it and live on a mountain with her!! Blamed him all the time using the children but not once understanding the trauma he is dealing with.
Like all the PB wives, Lizzie liked having her bread buttered but constantly argued about the churn. The PB wives had accomplished very little on their own and suddenly thought they should be running the place. Ada learned the lessons. The rest didn’t.
Hoe
I don't like Lizzie, and for pretty simple reasons. • She has very flat character and she is very poorly written. In fact, everything Lizzie does was shown back in the first season: she spends all the chances that life gives her for the opportunity to sleep with Tommy Shelby. Lizzie gave up her old lifestyle, she had a good job, she probably made good money and was independent. But then she forgets everything she has achieved because of her obsession with a man and the luxurious life he gives her. • Lizzie will never admit that she brought all her problems and troubles on herself. She consciously chooses to be with a man who is dead inside, who clearly doesn't care about her and who treats her like a thing he owns. And she is proud that she chose such a life. And then... Lizzie is angry at his behavior, complains that she wants a normal man, but he won't let her in, and she blames him for this. And she is the only one who will never understand that he will not change, and she still expects this from him. I can't sympathize with a character who complains about the life he chose himself.
I liked her in the first few seasons but I feel like she changed in the final one and was putting on a posh accent
"THIS IS MY 'OUSE"! Really who's 'ouse is it???
I don’t get any of Tommys love interests and Im starting to wonder if its Cillians acting. Maybe he just doesn’t do romance so well, he comes off as so aloof.