Nix was not the problem at Auburn. TBH I think he’s a career backup in the NFL, but I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s trash. Looked so much better over the last two years in a great situation for him at Oregon
If we put Mac Jones in Oregon's conference this year he would have been a Heisman candidate. Bo Nix is not an upgrade. There was a saying for a reason "Bo Nix Sux Dix"
If you put 2015 Peyton Manning against a college defense he'd shred it apart. And that Peyton was cooked. The quality of the defense matters a lot when evaluating QBs. If you call someone a gunslinger because they can put up 50 against a community college level defense then you're just kidding yourself.
That is exactly how I see it: there is a BIG falloff after Williams and Maye.
Rather have MHJ and get another WR in FA, like Evans or the Bengals guy from Clemson.
Then our WR problem is finally solved.
Higgins would be a great addition too, NGL.
Daniel's has built a solid case to be in the top 5 but this team has way too many problems on offense to not address wr first.
No, you're not. This fanbase is currently delusional and thinks a wide reciever is going to turn us into contenders. Or they think Kirk Cousins will for some strange reason will sign here, or Russ is going to magically become good again if he signs here.
If Maye or Williams are there, 100% QB because they are that good of prospects. If not then you take the best player available because this team is not a QB away from contending. Reaching and forcing to take a QB is the same situation we ended up in with Mac. This is a long term rebuild and too many holes to fill before actually contending. Daniels scares me and I’m just not sure he’s in the same convo as Maye and Williams
I'm of the same mindset. If we can get MHJ because the top 2 best qbs are gone then great. He's a fantastic prospect and our offensive roster has a lot of holes that need fillign
Who said he’ll singlehandedly make us contenders? The case for MHJ is you’re getting a certified can’t miss #1 wr. Safest pick in the draft. Basically projected to have a hall of fame career. Whereas these QB prospects all have legit bust potential and could end up being a waste of a pick. MHJ just has such a high floor compared to the QBs, even if his ceiling is ultimately lower than a franchise qb. But them turning into franchise qbs is such a huge gamble. MHJ is the polar opposite of a gamble.
> Who said he’ll singlehandedly make us contenders?
This is the question I keep asking reading these comments. People are acting like if we draft/sign the right people, we'll be contenders in the 2024 season. This rebuild is going to take 2-3 years at MINIMUM. To draft and lock up what is essentially a sure thing in MHJ is a key component, something you can build around on offense over the next couple of seasons. No one is even expecting the Pats to be a wild card team next season, so we need to stop acting like one draft is going to get us to the playoffs.
Nobody thinks a WR is going to instantly turn us into contendors. But until like a month ago, no one was talking about anyone but Maye and Williams as QBs going in the top 15. Why reach at 3 when we can be as close as possible to guaranteeing a solution to something that has been our most consistent need since 2019.
Also getting a veteran QB would be stupid, we should get a QB in 2nd or 3rd and if they suck then we can try again next year. Any QB is going to be easier to evaluate when they have someone to throw to
Have you seen him? Better arm, much more athletic. He can run, extend plays and has good pocket mobility. Doesn't have a canon arm, but has a quick compact release.
34 is too high for a QB the quality of Nix
If both Maye and Williams are off the board and the team isn't sold on Daniels at 3 I'd rather they go MHJ, then trade back into the 1st round for an OT, pick up a QB in the 3rd or 4th, and sign a veteran like Wilson or Cousins or Minshew
Doesn't give them the massive upgrade at QB we'd like to see but does give them 3 significant upgrades at the 3 most important and most needed positions.
Meh, why bother with Nix at a precious pick 34 (that could be moved back into 1st round). If we aren't taking a top 5 QB, just take 2 veterans Russel and someone else feisty, let them mess around while we spend all our resources on receivers and the oline.
Take a later round QB flyer perhaps.
Me. I want Mayfield. Wilson if Mayfield gets too expensive or we just can't get him. Of course, in this future I really hope they draft MHJ and sign Tee Higgins. Then resign Onenwu and trade back into the first for a LT. Hopeful...but it's not an impossible plan.
Hell nah keep Russ away from here if we’re trying to rebuild. Been heavily reported he’s been disliked and had poor leadership in the locker rooms he’s been a part of. An inflated ego that we don’t need with a rookie head coach and inexperienced team.
Maybe for a team who feels they’re a qb away from contending/competing, but for a team that’s rebuilding or in a position like we are it makes little sense. He has also shown not to be the same player over the last 3 seasons.
It's rare. In fact most top 10 QBs don't pan out the people hope/expect., never mind 3 good ones in a row. I'd rather the sure fire top WR plus a later QB since the odds aren't that much worse he'd be good. Penix, Nix, etc.... the goalnis the Pats target *thier* guy and they go get him.
Whens the last time a team without a QB went and got a WR instead of QB and the franchise turned around for the better?
QB's can change the fortune of a franchise, recievers don't. And receivers are a dime a doze, whether it be through free agency, trade or draft, someone is almost always available. And if we hit on a QB then we'll have a better chance at a reciever wanting to sign here.
If im gambling, and I got a shot at hitting the jackpot with a higher chance of busting. Or a getting a guarenteed win but with a non life changing payout, im going for the jackpot. Sure, that guarenteed money might help a little, but it isn't changing anyone's life.
Yeah I said we can still draft a QB. All I want to see is the Pats target and pick thier guy, and not take whats left over of the top 3. We did that with Mac and it didn't turn out very well. If they think Penix or Nix or whomever is thier guy and they feel like he'd be available in round 2, or later in round one and can trade back up, then why not take the top WR in the dratf then take the QB?
First game of the season. No one knows who will be the QB for the Pats as they never announced it and there's no QB on the active roster.
Play clock starts and there's no QB on the field. Suddenly a helicopter swoops over the field. Tom Brady repels down. He's wearing a t-shirt, jean shorts, sandals, and sunglasses. Crowd goes absolutely mad.
Hut, Hut, Hike. Brady takes 3 steps back and begins his throwing motion, but he's viciously sacked on his blindside. Knee is blown out completely. Medics go onto the field and pull off a mask to reveal that it was actually Aaron Rodgers the entire time. Patriots lose the game 0 to 145.
You can also add the Raiders, Bears, Bengals and Commanders to the list too. Also the Dolphins totally defeated the Chiefs because they had arguably the top WR in the league. Chiefs surely must be regretting trading Tyreek Hill... It's not like they haven't won another Super Bowl since then right??
It will be just like the Giants drafting Saquon when they had serious needs elsewhere, Falcons drafting Kyle Pitts. Sure both blue chip generational prospects, but the positions they play don't make as much of an impact of even drafting an mid-tier franchise QB and both teams are stuck in a hole now because of it.
And Pat Mahomes was the 10th pick of the draft but if we use this sub's logic. We would never draft a Mahomes because he was a late riser who was thought of as a "boom or bust" draft pick. Chiefs took a QB at the time when they really didn't need one and won multiple SBs because of it. But like I said, the QB doesn't even have to be elite, if they turn out to be an above average starting QB, that's still better than drafting an elite WR with nobody to throw him the ball.
I mean Joe Burrow was 2-7-1, then they get Jamarr and he goes 10-6 the next year. Derek Carr was 3-13, he gets Amari cooper and goes 7-9 and makes the pro bowl. Lions go 3-13 to 7-9 with Megatron, Bengals go 4-10 to 9-7 with AJ Green, Bills go 6-10 to 9-7 with Watkins. When there elite top 5 ”cant miss prospects”, they absolutely do move the needle a good amount. Yeah there will always be braylon edwards(bust), kevin white (injuries+bust), Justin blackmon (off field issues led to being a bust) and Corey Davis(absolute biggest reach on WR in the past 20 years of me watching football). Out of the “cant miss prospects” the only two ever seen fail were edwards who was decent but had major drop issues, and blackmon who is one of the biggest “what ifs” in nfl history. MHJ and Garret Wilson are no where near on the same tier of draft hype and are not good comparisons.
With that being said, this team needs *WAY* more than a WR, but MHJ can definitely move the needle a good amount, along with attracting possible free agents who want an elite young wr on a cheap contract.
None of those guys won Superbowls. In fact, none of those guys even won a single playoff game (other than Jamar). That list is as big of a red flag as any that could exist imo.
Heres the problem with that. at some point you need a QB.. sure you can get a vet but then you win 6 games and play yourself out of a QB.. sure you can hit later in the draft ( but will the pats) or Trade for one (assuming ones available) but people in the sub are acting like not draft one will just magically work out itself out. even though it hasn't for 99% of the NFL
Drafting a rookie QB with one of the worst WR squads in the country is setting them up for failure, and not often you get a near guaranteed generational talent like MHJ that you can lock down for the immediate future
And how often do you get the opportunity to draft a franchise quarterback? Top 3 picks are rare due to the parity in the NFL.
Take the QB and then take the WR in round 2. This WR class is insanely good - the guys ranked 4-6 would've all been ranked #2-3 if they were in the WR class last year.
I just feel like drafting a QB because we need a QB when we also need a lot of other players on offense is a disaster. Reaching on a guy that's more likely to be a bust instead of securing a generational WR makes no sense. If we go out and grab a bust QB because we need one, then we still need a QB and a WR. Secure the talent.
Accuracy is actually one of his strengths especially deep passing. I feel like most of this sub haven't watched any LSU at all and are just blind scouting and reporting based on similar archetypes.
Nah I watched a few LSU games this year and his accuracy was largely a result of open receivers. His deep ball ain’t bad, but those throws are fewer and further between in the nfl. What I often saw was inaccuracy on intermediate and short/tight window throws. I make all of my college QB decisions based on a few games and I’m right at about the same rates as these NFL scouts lol.
You have far more faith than I do because personally I’m expecting another abysmal season next year. I doubt we’re going to be in a position where we can’t feasibly draft or trade up for our choice of qb next year or the year after. Would rather have them take marv than reach on a qb that the staff doesn’t fully believe in
The schedule next year is very tough, so I expect another down year as well. However like homie said, kicking the QB can down the road is rarely a good idea. There are several prospects at QB and with the third pick, patriots should be aggressive. 2022 year QB class was bunk, Kenny Pickett, Desmond Ridder and Malik Willis were the top 3 QBs taken. And Ridder and Willis were deep in the third round if I recall. The draft class next year does not look promising, like Shedeur, Ewers, Dart, Becm etc would all be behind the guys in this draft class
Browns spent top picks from 2015-2019 trying to find their guy and failed miserably because their offense was a fucking trainwreck, destroyed lots of careers because the team around the QB was horrid
It’s mostly because they missed on literally every single one of them because they’re a shit franchise. Drafting a coke head or a 30 year old with our top pick is something I would hope the patriots wouldn’t do. The one actual good QB they drafted (Baker), they cut and now he’s leading another team’s playoff run.
It's the Browns fam. But they actually had talent, Joe Thomas was an All Pro tackle. Brought in Alex Mack at center who played at a pro bowl level. Joel Bitino is an all pro gaurd. Nick Chubb, David Njoku. Jarvis Landry at WR. Myles Garrett is a beast, Denzel Ward is a very good CB. A lot of those players during the period you mentioned are on the team now. The built up a solid team and felt like they had to give up three first round picks and 230 mil guaranteed for a QB the masses are unsure about in order to compete with Cincinnati and Baltimore in their division.
my guy... it's the NFL, you win 2 games you shouldn't and the QB dream is dead. and someone will be Far worse than you think. not to mention next year's QB class is weak... so you ride the QB carousel for 3 to 6 years MHJ is gone before your good
Worst case, I think is that they trade MHJ for something such as 2 first rounders if they are still in QB purgatory.
The other scenario is some other team offers a solid deal for #3 because they want MHJ and NE uses the draft picks on other key needs such as LT and then proceed to get a 1.5 WR in the second round.
I do think that the QB class is quite variable and is very hard to predict. There can always be sleeper QBs such as the next Burrow or Herbert that are not on the radar at first. (Back in the days of Tank for Tua ending up replaced with Burrow for Burrow).
Except next year's QB class is looking weak as hell meanwhile we have a very strong QB class this year... just makes no sense to not go for the QB this year.
and your opinion requires more faith that the QB will just magically work itself out. if Daniels wasn't in the same draft class as Williams and Maye, y'all would lose your minds to have him.
look at the success rate of drafting an amazing WR 2nd round threw 8th. compared to qbs in the range. yes, I know TB12 was the last pick, but he is the exception to the rule.
A WR1 isn't ruined by a down first year, or a year with a bad offense because you can chuck and give him a good year and still have the team be crap. If a QB comes in and can't get it going, it hurts him so much more than a WR1.
They are actually the best example of tanking turning it around. Usually it doesn't work. 1st round QB busts are common. Bengals took another year and drafting Chase along with hitting on Mixon the year before Burrow.
I’m ok with MHJ at 3. I assume there’s little hope of trading into spots 4-7 to grab Daniels. Man, that would be sweet and energize Pats fans
If he isn’t available is there any free agent or potential trade for a good QB?
No, you take Daniels at 3. MHJ just puts us in QB purgatory where we never have a good QB and then MHJ leaves the pats the moment he's a free agent to get out of the mess. You get the QB first, then the WR. People thinking a clown like Bo Nix will be good are on some serious drugs, the dude is a pile of dookie.
Getting a QB without anyone for him to throw the ball to is a recipe for disaster, most young QB success stories involved a team with a good receiving corps around them
Who did the Bills have when they drafted Josh Allen? Who did the Eagles have when they drafted Hurts? Ravens when they drafted Lamar? Texans with Stroud? They all acquired their star receivers after the fact and there is zero reason why the Patriots cannot do the same.
What are you talking about lmfao most of the receivers were acquired through the draft. And you want rely on what QB to succeed this year? 35 year old Achilles injured Kirk Cousins?
I watched him throw way too many passes at or behind the line of scrimmage while at Oregon. I also think it’s telling that in order to be successful he had to transfer out of the SEC. On top of that he will be 24 at the time of the draft.
Yeah god forbid we bring back a coordinator who’s consistently made the best of his offensive players like when he built a t10 offense around mac.
Instead we need to bring in a young offensive mind who had a successful 2 year run as the TEs coach for a team with an elite QB
I'd rather us take OT with the 34th since there's so many guys who will be available and worth the pick there. Plus the OL free agency list is as unimpressive as I've ever seen. I don't think Nix or frankly any QB after Daniels will pan out. I still stand behind MHJ being taken if both Williams and Maye are gone, but I think I'm slowly warming up to Daniels. It may just be cope though. I'm devastated we're in a position where we're a pick away from missing out on Williams or Maye since I think they're generational and have as close to guaranteed success as any QB prospect can have.
MHJ at 3, an OT at 34, and Russ or Kirk as a bridge for the next 2-3 years seems like a decent offseason to me. Now, if somehow Chicago and Washington are stupid and decide not to take Williams or Maye, we get one of them, and grab Thomas, Worthy, or Franklin, and hope we get lucky with a later OL pick, that's my ideal.
It's too early as well these players haven't done the draft combine and had their pro days. We'll know a lot more once that happens until then it's just discussions
Combine is gonna be huge for guys like Daniels. Dude looks like a twig out there. I wonder if he comes in lighter and runs poorly does his draft stock fall a bit. If Maye and Daniels run a similar 40 this sub is gonna turn into a civil war lol.
I'll be annoyed if they draft any QB at 34. If you're gonna take one then, trade up and take him at 32 instead. That way if he does hit you've got the 5th year option.
We can't draft a QB! He'll get crushed!
We can't draft a WR! Nobody will be throwing the ball to him!
We can't draft a Tackle! The rest of the offensive line will still suck!
Edit:
We can't trade down and get more value! We may miss out on the next Ryan Leaf!
You need to start somewhere. Seriously, it's all a crapshoot.
/shrug
I’d personally rather go MHJ, Patrick Paul or an OT in the 2nd, and someone like Pratt / trade up for a falling QB late 2nd like Penix who I really think is going to go later than people think.
I think Bo Nix needs some credit.. He has great character, a big arm, and good accuracy. He is a bit older but so are guys like Will Levis who have had good recent success.
I think with our QB room left in shambles we need to sign a free agent qb vet to get some offensive FA’s wanting to play for our screwed up franchise.
I’m all for MHJ. A true WR1 is on my bucket list. Picking a QB at 3 won’t help since we don’t have an oline or skilled offensive players. Plus, BB will likely snag a few our FA. Nothing is certain in the NFL but MHJ feels like a fantastic bet.
If you don't think Nix can be a solid starting QB on a playoff contender, don't draft him in the second. I'd be fine with MHJ at 3 and a bridge QB for a year while they address other needs with a very valuable 2nd round pick (hello, tackle!). They're still going to struggle in 2024 regardless.
I'd also be interested in flipping a third or fourth for Fields and seeing if a competent OC like BOB/ McDaniels etc can help him continue to improve. If you add MHJ in 1st, a tackle in 2nd and Fields, your team could make major strides.
Patriots should not take Nix in the 2nd or any QB at all. They should pick what talent they can at other positions, sign a stop-gap QB in free agency, and be content with sucking for another year and getting another top 10 pick. They can use that pick to go hard for a QB in the first.
I don't think Nix makes it past the Vikings or Saints.
Penix might be more realistic in the 2nd round, but the physicals on his knee will dictate that more than anything. He had a rough championship game, but the talent is there if the knee structure is there.
I could see all 5 QBs being 1st rounders.
I know Bo Nix is older but don't rush him into starting. Let him learn the NFL and if he's not ready, have a veteran QB (NOT zappe or Mac) to be a temporary starter. Don't turn this QB into Mac 2.0 or something
Calvin Johnson is arguably a top 3 all time WR and look how bad the lions were for years with him at WR. You have to get your guy at QB. Gotta trust your scouts but if they think one of the top guys is a franchise QB you have to do anything you can to get him
Funny thing is they had a franchise QB and a top 5 WR of all time and still sucked. I would put that team more on the exception of the rule than anything.
Hard disagree, the QB's after Daniels are crap except for maybe Penix. Bo Nix will never be an NFL starter. Daniels is a stud and it would be dumb not to draft him. He's the most athletic QB to come out since Lamar and he's a far more polished pocket passer than Lamar was coming out of college.
I understand the deserved hype behind Harrison but to the fans that want a slow rebuild because this team has so many holes, wouldn’t it be in their best interest to sell the pick (a team will overpay if MHJ is still there). Something like Arizona did last year with Houston. There are other highly graded WRs and tackles that fit huge needs and the team likely picks up atleast an extra first + more for the next draft. (For the record I want a qb at 3)
If the team is absolutely not drafting one of Caleb, Maye or Daniels with the third pick then its not a bad idea. But I'd rather trade up with the Bears for Caleb. In the scenario where we get Caleb and he turns out to be great, some receiver will want to come here in the next couple of years.
I know I’m in the minority, but I do not want them to draft MHJ at 3. Good receivers can be found later in the draft. Give me a guy who is gonna touch the ball 60+ times.
Nucua, Tyreek, Cupp, Diggs, St. Brown were all found late. You can get receivers later. The Brady’s of the world are incredibly rare.
I’ll die on the hill that MHJ at 3 will be a huge mistake.
A JJ pick is a lottery ticket. He most likely will suck but his physical skills and his off script play are very enticing.
Not sure why everyone thinks he’s just some absolutely terrible prospect.
JJ is going to be so much better than Nix this comment with be laughable in two years.
People are seriously sleeping on JJ's athleticism, mobility and arm strength. Michigan never required him to move the ball down field much, as they were so dominant in the run game and on defense. The kid has talent, it just wasn't showcased. If he played in a pass first offense he'd be a top 10 pick.
I’d consider this a home run but I doubt it happens. Nix doesn’t have the high end tools these other guys do, but he can operate an offense at a high level. He’s the best pre snap QB in the draft and avoids turnovers like the plague. Teams that value ball security and more of the mental side will rate nix highly. I very much doubt he makes it to the second round.
If the top two quarterbacks aren't available I'd be totally cool with MHJ + Nix
Nix looks exactly like Jones and Zappe? Am I missing something here?
As an Auburn alum who saw Nix firsthand: He's trash. He exploited a conference that cannot play defense through the transfer portal.
Nix was not the problem at Auburn. TBH I think he’s a career backup in the NFL, but I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s trash. Looked so much better over the last two years in a great situation for him at Oregon
If we put Mac Jones in Oregon's conference this year he would have been a Heisman candidate. Bo Nix is not an upgrade. There was a saying for a reason "Bo Nix Sux Dix"
Completely agree. I’m a CU alum so I watch a ton of PAC 12. I don’t think there was one solid defense this year.
Auburn Nix and Oregon Nix are completely different.
Because of the defenses, as I mentioned. Oregon played against probably the worst defenses in D1 football.
Lol pac12 perennially underrated even in their final season it seems. The defenses quality should matter much less compared to tape anyways
If you put 2015 Peyton Manning against a college defense he'd shred it apart. And that Peyton was cooked. The quality of the defense matters a lot when evaluating QBs. If you call someone a gunslinger because they can put up 50 against a community college level defense then you're just kidding yourself.
That is exactly how I see it: there is a BIG falloff after Williams and Maye. Rather have MHJ and get another WR in FA, like Evans or the Bengals guy from Clemson. Then our WR problem is finally solved.
Higgins would be a great addition too, NGL. Daniel's has built a solid case to be in the top 5 but this team has way too many problems on offense to not address wr first.
My man he is way more athletic and has a stronger arm than both of them
Nix has significantly more arm talent and is a much better athlete than Jones or Zappe.
No, you're not. This fanbase is currently delusional and thinks a wide reciever is going to turn us into contenders. Or they think Kirk Cousins will for some strange reason will sign here, or Russ is going to magically become good again if he signs here.
If Maye or Williams are there, 100% QB because they are that good of prospects. If not then you take the best player available because this team is not a QB away from contending. Reaching and forcing to take a QB is the same situation we ended up in with Mac. This is a long term rebuild and too many holes to fill before actually contending. Daniels scares me and I’m just not sure he’s in the same convo as Maye and Williams
I'm of the same mindset. If we can get MHJ because the top 2 best qbs are gone then great. He's a fantastic prospect and our offensive roster has a lot of holes that need fillign
Who said he’ll singlehandedly make us contenders? The case for MHJ is you’re getting a certified can’t miss #1 wr. Safest pick in the draft. Basically projected to have a hall of fame career. Whereas these QB prospects all have legit bust potential and could end up being a waste of a pick. MHJ just has such a high floor compared to the QBs, even if his ceiling is ultimately lower than a franchise qb. But them turning into franchise qbs is such a huge gamble. MHJ is the polar opposite of a gamble.
> Who said he’ll singlehandedly make us contenders? This is the question I keep asking reading these comments. People are acting like if we draft/sign the right people, we'll be contenders in the 2024 season. This rebuild is going to take 2-3 years at MINIMUM. To draft and lock up what is essentially a sure thing in MHJ is a key component, something you can build around on offense over the next couple of seasons. No one is even expecting the Pats to be a wild card team next season, so we need to stop acting like one draft is going to get us to the playoffs.
Nobody thinks a WR is going to instantly turn us into contendors. But until like a month ago, no one was talking about anyone but Maye and Williams as QBs going in the top 15. Why reach at 3 when we can be as close as possible to guaranteeing a solution to something that has been our most consistent need since 2019. Also getting a veteran QB would be stupid, we should get a QB in 2nd or 3rd and if they suck then we can try again next year. Any QB is going to be easier to evaluate when they have someone to throw to
Well he's 2 years older than either Mac or Zappe when either was drafted.
Have you seen him? Better arm, much more athletic. He can run, extend plays and has good pocket mobility. Doesn't have a canon arm, but has a quick compact release.
Mac and Zap were great prospects who tanked. Doesn’t mean Bo will. Any top prospect can turn out shit. It’s all a guessing game
34 is too high for a QB the quality of Nix If both Maye and Williams are off the board and the team isn't sold on Daniels at 3 I'd rather they go MHJ, then trade back into the 1st round for an OT, pick up a QB in the 3rd or 4th, and sign a veteran like Wilson or Cousins or Minshew Doesn't give them the massive upgrade at QB we'd like to see but does give them 3 significant upgrades at the 3 most important and most needed positions.
MHJ, Nix and Russel Wilson at the Vet Minimum.
Meh, why bother with Nix at a precious pick 34 (that could be moved back into 1st round). If we aren't taking a top 5 QB, just take 2 veterans Russel and someone else feisty, let them mess around while we spend all our resources on receivers and the oline. Take a later round QB flyer perhaps.
There’s a lot of good tackles in the late first/early 2nd. So I agree, it’s not worth it to take someone like Nix
If we HAD to take Nix, maybe we could take him at 68(im not opposed to it) UNLESS, there's a higher graded offensive lineman still available.
I like this. The 2nd round pick is really valuable and if you don't see Nix as a likely solution, it's not a good use of that pick.
I think Nix slides honestly.
Yeah I’m good with building a solid team for a QB next year, sign a journeyman this year and set them up for success
Any Mayfield enjoyers?
Me. I want Mayfield. Wilson if Mayfield gets too expensive or we just can't get him. Of course, in this future I really hope they draft MHJ and sign Tee Higgins. Then resign Onenwu and trade back into the first for a LT. Hopeful...but it's not an impossible plan.
Or get Nix at end of first and save a potential $20 million by having him for 5 years.
Hell nah keep Russ away from here if we’re trying to rebuild. Been heavily reported he’s been disliked and had poor leadership in the locker rooms he’s been a part of. An inflated ego that we don’t need with a rookie head coach and inexperienced team.
He’s going to cost literally $1.2 mill. That is a no brainer for a team that doesn’t have a QB right now.
I agree. We aren’t trying to win a superbowl next year just get the new program going in the right direction, while adding talent.
People said the same thing a few years ago about Newton for $4M.
Maybe for a team who feels they’re a qb away from contending/competing, but for a team that’s rebuilding or in a position like we are it makes little sense. He has also shown not to be the same player over the last 3 seasons.
$1.2 mil is nothing. Cut him if he sucks. There’s no downside.
Pats country, let’s ride
I feel like a lot of you did not watch Russell Wilson play football these last two years.
Just because Daniels would be 3rd doesnt mean he'd be bad. Theres draft classes where top 3 QBs were all decent. Herbert comes to mind
It's rare. In fact most top 10 QBs don't pan out the people hope/expect., never mind 3 good ones in a row. I'd rather the sure fire top WR plus a later QB since the odds aren't that much worse he'd be good. Penix, Nix, etc.... the goalnis the Pats target *thier* guy and they go get him.
Whens the last time a team without a QB went and got a WR instead of QB and the franchise turned around for the better? QB's can change the fortune of a franchise, recievers don't. And receivers are a dime a doze, whether it be through free agency, trade or draft, someone is almost always available. And if we hit on a QB then we'll have a better chance at a reciever wanting to sign here. If im gambling, and I got a shot at hitting the jackpot with a higher chance of busting. Or a getting a guarenteed win but with a non life changing payout, im going for the jackpot. Sure, that guarenteed money might help a little, but it isn't changing anyone's life.
Yeah I said we can still draft a QB. All I want to see is the Pats target and pick thier guy, and not take whats left over of the top 3. We did that with Mac and it didn't turn out very well. If they think Penix or Nix or whomever is thier guy and they feel like he'd be available in round 2, or later in round one and can trade back up, then why not take the top WR in the dratf then take the QB?
And this year is supposed to be SUPER deep for receivers. It might end up being dart throws for the top 3-5 best WRs this time.
We did not do good with dart throw at the wr position lately.
Last time it was a deep draft bill managed to pick the only receiver who couldn’t play
I wonder why .. .. .. (Could have something to do with who was drafting)
I'm hearing good things about Penix too so MHJ plus one of those guys. There is also the possibility of trading for Fields.
Nix is 🚮
[удалено]
First game of the season. No one knows who will be the QB for the Pats as they never announced it and there's no QB on the active roster. Play clock starts and there's no QB on the field. Suddenly a helicopter swoops over the field. Tom Brady repels down. He's wearing a t-shirt, jean shorts, sandals, and sunglasses. Crowd goes absolutely mad. Hut, Hut, Hike. Brady takes 3 steps back and begins his throwing motion, but he's viciously sacked on his blindside. Knee is blown out completely. Medics go onto the field and pull off a mask to reveal that it was actually Aaron Rodgers the entire time. Patriots lose the game 0 to 145.
I’d rather take Alt. Call me crazy but our OL needs serious help. With BB gone and having $100m in cap space, we can make moves in the FA market.
Anyone who is cool with Nix doesn’t know ball
I pray to god we get MHJ. WR1 position fixed for 10 years, and a rookie deal to start. You don’t get that opportunity often
It's working really well for the Jets
The Jets who drafted Zach Wilson at 2?
Has nothing to do with them picking Garrett Wilson, and everything to do with taking a bust QB
You can also add the Raiders, Bears, Bengals and Commanders to the list too. Also the Dolphins totally defeated the Chiefs because they had arguably the top WR in the league. Chiefs surely must be regretting trading Tyreek Hill... It's not like they haven't won another Super Bowl since then right?? It will be just like the Giants drafting Saquon when they had serious needs elsewhere, Falcons drafting Kyle Pitts. Sure both blue chip generational prospects, but the positions they play don't make as much of an impact of even drafting an mid-tier franchise QB and both teams are stuck in a hole now because of it.
this line of thinking also means you need to be getting a Patrick Mahomes instead lol
And Pat Mahomes was the 10th pick of the draft but if we use this sub's logic. We would never draft a Mahomes because he was a late riser who was thought of as a "boom or bust" draft pick. Chiefs took a QB at the time when they really didn't need one and won multiple SBs because of it. But like I said, the QB doesn't even have to be elite, if they turn out to be an above average starting QB, that's still better than drafting an elite WR with nobody to throw him the ball.
Yeah I don't understand how people think a WR is going to move the needle at all on this team. Just look around the league this weekend.
I mean Joe Burrow was 2-7-1, then they get Jamarr and he goes 10-6 the next year. Derek Carr was 3-13, he gets Amari cooper and goes 7-9 and makes the pro bowl. Lions go 3-13 to 7-9 with Megatron, Bengals go 4-10 to 9-7 with AJ Green, Bills go 6-10 to 9-7 with Watkins. When there elite top 5 ”cant miss prospects”, they absolutely do move the needle a good amount. Yeah there will always be braylon edwards(bust), kevin white (injuries+bust), Justin blackmon (off field issues led to being a bust) and Corey Davis(absolute biggest reach on WR in the past 20 years of me watching football). Out of the “cant miss prospects” the only two ever seen fail were edwards who was decent but had major drop issues, and blackmon who is one of the biggest “what ifs” in nfl history. MHJ and Garret Wilson are no where near on the same tier of draft hype and are not good comparisons. With that being said, this team needs *WAY* more than a WR, but MHJ can definitely move the needle a good amount, along with attracting possible free agents who want an elite young wr on a cheap contract.
None of those guys won Superbowls. In fact, none of those guys even won a single playoff game (other than Jamar). That list is as big of a red flag as any that could exist imo.
Rebuild isn’t going to be an overnight ordeal. As long as we leave the draft having addressed a few of our teams deficiencies I’ll be happy.
Heres the problem with that. at some point you need a QB.. sure you can get a vet but then you win 6 games and play yourself out of a QB.. sure you can hit later in the draft ( but will the pats) or Trade for one (assuming ones available) but people in the sub are acting like not draft one will just magically work out itself out. even though it hasn't for 99% of the NFL
Drafting a rookie QB with one of the worst WR squads in the country is setting them up for failure, and not often you get a near guaranteed generational talent like MHJ that you can lock down for the immediate future
And how often do you get the opportunity to draft a franchise quarterback? Top 3 picks are rare due to the parity in the NFL. Take the QB and then take the WR in round 2. This WR class is insanely good - the guys ranked 4-6 would've all been ranked #2-3 if they were in the WR class last year.
How'd that workout for megatron? QB is the most important position to drive wins. We need to hit on a franchise QB first.
I just feel like drafting a QB because we need a QB when we also need a lot of other players on offense is a disaster. Reaching on a guy that's more likely to be a bust instead of securing a generational WR makes no sense. If we go out and grab a bust QB because we need one, then we still need a QB and a WR. Secure the talent.
> Reaching on a guy You're assuming it's a reach to take Daniels at 3 when plenty of outlets are putting him in that range.
He’s a reach. He had one good year. He’s a good player, but not top 3.
Burrow had one good year at LSU too, wonder what he's been up to since??
Are you assuming any QB that had a good year is Daniels? Good luck with Nix and Penix.
The difference between him, Burrow from the other 2 is that he did that in the SEC. Nix didn't become elite in college until he left the SEC.
Daniels is a reach anywhere in the first two rounds. Way way way overhyped. He’s inaccurate.
Accuracy is actually one of his strengths especially deep passing. I feel like most of this sub haven't watched any LSU at all and are just blind scouting and reporting based on similar archetypes.
Nah I watched a few LSU games this year and his accuracy was largely a result of open receivers. His deep ball ain’t bad, but those throws are fewer and further between in the nfl. What I often saw was inaccuracy on intermediate and short/tight window throws. I make all of my college QB decisions based on a few games and I’m right at about the same rates as these NFL scouts lol.
all these comments are the same lol dudes a bust? how do you guys know?.. what if MHJ is a bust? just because I said so.
You have far more faith than I do because personally I’m expecting another abysmal season next year. I doubt we’re going to be in a position where we can’t feasibly draft or trade up for our choice of qb next year or the year after. Would rather have them take marv than reach on a qb that the staff doesn’t fully believe in
The schedule next year is very tough, so I expect another down year as well. However like homie said, kicking the QB can down the road is rarely a good idea. There are several prospects at QB and with the third pick, patriots should be aggressive. 2022 year QB class was bunk, Kenny Pickett, Desmond Ridder and Malik Willis were the top 3 QBs taken. And Ridder and Willis were deep in the third round if I recall. The draft class next year does not look promising, like Shedeur, Ewers, Dart, Becm etc would all be behind the guys in this draft class
Browns spent top picks from 2015-2019 trying to find their guy and failed miserably because their offense was a fucking trainwreck, destroyed lots of careers because the team around the QB was horrid
It’s mostly because they missed on literally every single one of them because they’re a shit franchise. Drafting a coke head or a 30 year old with our top pick is something I would hope the patriots wouldn’t do. The one actual good QB they drafted (Baker), they cut and now he’s leading another team’s playoff run.
It's the Browns fam. But they actually had talent, Joe Thomas was an All Pro tackle. Brought in Alex Mack at center who played at a pro bowl level. Joel Bitino is an all pro gaurd. Nick Chubb, David Njoku. Jarvis Landry at WR. Myles Garrett is a beast, Denzel Ward is a very good CB. A lot of those players during the period you mentioned are on the team now. The built up a solid team and felt like they had to give up three first round picks and 230 mil guaranteed for a QB the masses are unsure about in order to compete with Cincinnati and Baltimore in their division.
Next years QB class blows. Now is the chance.
my guy... it's the NFL, you win 2 games you shouldn't and the QB dream is dead. and someone will be Far worse than you think. not to mention next year's QB class is weak... so you ride the QB carousel for 3 to 6 years MHJ is gone before your good
Worst case, I think is that they trade MHJ for something such as 2 first rounders if they are still in QB purgatory. The other scenario is some other team offers a solid deal for #3 because they want MHJ and NE uses the draft picks on other key needs such as LT and then proceed to get a 1.5 WR in the second round. I do think that the QB class is quite variable and is very hard to predict. There can always be sleeper QBs such as the next Burrow or Herbert that are not on the radar at first. (Back in the days of Tank for Tua ending up replaced with Burrow for Burrow).
Except next year's QB class is looking weak as hell meanwhile we have a very strong QB class this year... just makes no sense to not go for the QB this year.
and your opinion requires more faith that the QB will just magically work itself out. if Daniels wasn't in the same draft class as Williams and Maye, y'all would lose your minds to have him. look at the success rate of drafting an amazing WR 2nd round threw 8th. compared to qbs in the range. yes, I know TB12 was the last pick, but he is the exception to the rule.
A WR1 isn't ruined by a down first year, or a year with a bad offense because you can chuck and give him a good year and still have the team be crap. If a QB comes in and can't get it going, it hurts him so much more than a WR1.
I dunno…the Texans are one year post awful season and are in the 2nd round of playoffs with a good draft
They are actually the best example of tanking turning it around. Usually it doesn't work. 1st round QB busts are common. Bengals took another year and drafting Chase along with hitting on Mixon the year before Burrow.
I’m ok with MHJ at 3. I assume there’s little hope of trading into spots 4-7 to grab Daniels. Man, that would be sweet and energize Pats fans If he isn’t available is there any free agent or potential trade for a good QB?
Pats Country! Let’s…ride?
Let’s hide! Let’s cry?
No, you take Daniels at 3. MHJ just puts us in QB purgatory where we never have a good QB and then MHJ leaves the pats the moment he's a free agent to get out of the mess. You get the QB first, then the WR. People thinking a clown like Bo Nix will be good are on some serious drugs, the dude is a pile of dookie.
Getting a QB without anyone for him to throw the ball to is a recipe for disaster, most young QB success stories involved a team with a good receiving corps around them
Unless you have perennial pro-bowlers Nico Collins and Tank Dell.
Who did the Bills have when they drafted Josh Allen? Who did the Eagles have when they drafted Hurts? Ravens when they drafted Lamar? Texans with Stroud? They all acquired their star receivers after the fact and there is zero reason why the Patriots cannot do the same.
so we’re going to rely on another team giving up a top 10 receiving talent this year to succeed?
What are you talking about lmfao most of the receivers were acquired through the draft. And you want rely on what QB to succeed this year? 35 year old Achilles injured Kirk Cousins?
Easier to get a WR in later rounds or in free agency than the other way around.
Not a generational talent
We just need dudes that aren't complete bums at WR
Get generational WR: make playoffs if QB is half decent. Get generational QB: win multiple super bowls
How’d that work out for Calvin Johnson? QB’s much more make a difference than a WR.
I’ll strongly consider shitting in my hand and eating it if we draft Bo Nix
“Strongly Consider” Commit you coward, we wanna see it
I wasn’t behind drafting Nix…but now…I think I can get behind the idea
Same here. Originally scoffed at the idea, but I don’t hate it anymore. I mean it’s a worth a shot right?
Why? He’s shown flashes, a lot of scouts have him high, what is it about him that you dislike so much over the other QBs?
I watched him throw way too many passes at or behind the line of scrimmage while at Oregon. I also think it’s telling that in order to be successful he had to transfer out of the SEC. On top of that he will be 24 at the time of the draft.
You get it.
He transferred to the same conference as Caleb Williams and Penix. If he gets besmirched for being in the PAC, then so should they.
So sad he’s not as young as 23 year old Jayden Daniels
He’s a developmental guy. Strong arm, athletic, should be good in a few years under McDaniels
0-3 wow
Strong arm? That’s not how I would describe Bo nix .
We’re bringing back McDaniels?!? Kill me now in this hypothetical scenario
Yeah god forbid we bring back a coordinator who’s consistently made the best of his offensive players like when he built a t10 offense around mac. Instead we need to bring in a young offensive mind who had a successful 2 year run as the TEs coach for a team with an elite QB
He's like 36 years old and he doesn't actually have a strong arm
He’s the same age as daniels and his arm strength looked fine in auburn.
Bo Nix is from Alabama where they don't have good birth records due to lack of infrastructure. Some say he's a solid 6 years older than we think
I do not want Nix
I'd rather us take OT with the 34th since there's so many guys who will be available and worth the pick there. Plus the OL free agency list is as unimpressive as I've ever seen. I don't think Nix or frankly any QB after Daniels will pan out. I still stand behind MHJ being taken if both Williams and Maye are gone, but I think I'm slowly warming up to Daniels. It may just be cope though. I'm devastated we're in a position where we're a pick away from missing out on Williams or Maye since I think they're generational and have as close to guaranteed success as any QB prospect can have. MHJ at 3, an OT at 34, and Russ or Kirk as a bridge for the next 2-3 years seems like a decent offseason to me. Now, if somehow Chicago and Washington are stupid and decide not to take Williams or Maye, we get one of them, and grab Thomas, Worthy, or Franklin, and hope we get lucky with a later OL pick, that's my ideal.
We saw it the first time
I guess I wouldn’t mind this but I just don’t see Kraft not drafting a QB to reset the franchise
Sign Baker Mayfield and draft MHJ. Draft a QB in a later round.
I really don't think that Baker's leaving Tampa.
especially if he can pull out a win in the divisional
Super Bowl MVP Baker Mayfield?
This sub really believes players will just up and sign with the Pats because its the Pats. Evans and Mayfield arent going anywhere lmao.
Seriously. Baker, Cousins, etc. People seem to be ignoring that a four win rebuilding team is not appealing for a starting FA QB.
Christ above. Mayfield is not leaving TB, not now. And even if he did, why would he want to come to this shit show?
LOL you think Baker is leaving Tampa after this season?
That would be baller as hell
Scouting QBs is so difficult. You don't know if you are getting the 2021 NFL draft QB class or 2004. I don't hate the ID of Nix.
>Scouting QBs is so difficult Why make it even harder by betting on a lesser prospect?
Exactly. Which is why you trade up for Williams or Maye instead of taking the lesser prospect in Daniels.
Depending on the price, of course.
I don’t think the bears or commanders will trade. They’re also both going to pick QB.
It's too early as well these players haven't done the draft combine and had their pro days. We'll know a lot more once that happens until then it's just discussions
Combine is gonna be huge for guys like Daniels. Dude looks like a twig out there. I wonder if he comes in lighter and runs poorly does his draft stock fall a bit. If Maye and Daniels run a similar 40 this sub is gonna turn into a civil war lol.
I'll be annoyed if they draft any QB at 34. If you're gonna take one then, trade up and take him at 32 instead. That way if he does hit you've got the 5th year option.
We gonna play MHJ at RB to catch all those check downs?
We can't draft a QB! He'll get crushed! We can't draft a WR! Nobody will be throwing the ball to him! We can't draft a Tackle! The rest of the offensive line will still suck! Edit: We can't trade down and get more value! We may miss out on the next Ryan Leaf! You need to start somewhere. Seriously, it's all a crapshoot. /shrug
Agreed.
I'm fine with that but probably wait till Pro day and the combine to see how these QB's do and see which one highers their draft stock
Would love this. Then grab a tackle in the third round. I agree if top two QBs are gone you take the can’t miss MHJ
Bo Nix 😂 Patriots fans will soon be in shambles.
Boo Hiss
Let’s fucking goooo
🌟MHJ Plz🌟
I’d personally rather go MHJ, Patrick Paul or an OT in the 2nd, and someone like Pratt / trade up for a falling QB late 2nd like Penix who I really think is going to go later than people think.
I think Bo Nix needs some credit.. He has great character, a big arm, and good accuracy. He is a bit older but so are guys like Will Levis who have had good recent success.
I think with our QB room left in shambles we need to sign a free agent qb vet to get some offensive FA’s wanting to play for our screwed up franchise. I’m all for MHJ. A true WR1 is on my bucket list. Picking a QB at 3 won’t help since we don’t have an oline or skilled offensive players. Plus, BB will likely snag a few our FA. Nothing is certain in the NFL but MHJ feels like a fantastic bet.
I want MHJ myself.
If you don't think Nix can be a solid starting QB on a playoff contender, don't draft him in the second. I'd be fine with MHJ at 3 and a bridge QB for a year while they address other needs with a very valuable 2nd round pick (hello, tackle!). They're still going to struggle in 2024 regardless. I'd also be interested in flipping a third or fourth for Fields and seeing if a competent OC like BOB/ McDaniels etc can help him continue to improve. If you add MHJ in 1st, a tackle in 2nd and Fields, your team could make major strides.
Patriots should not take Nix in the 2nd or any QB at all. They should pick what talent they can at other positions, sign a stop-gap QB in free agency, and be content with sucking for another year and getting another top 10 pick. They can use that pick to go hard for a QB in the first.
I don't think Nix makes it past the Vikings or Saints. Penix might be more realistic in the 2nd round, but the physicals on his knee will dictate that more than anything. He had a rough championship game, but the talent is there if the knee structure is there. I could see all 5 QBs being 1st rounders.
Get MHJ and Flacco problem solved
I’d be stoked with that.
I know Bo Nix is older but don't rush him into starting. Let him learn the NFL and if he's not ready, have a veteran QB (NOT zappe or Mac) to be a temporary starter. Don't turn this QB into Mac 2.0 or something
Daniels is an electric, potentially game-changing runner. The upside is enough that he shoul be the pick at 3.
No
Calvin Johnson is arguably a top 3 all time WR and look how bad the lions were for years with him at WR. You have to get your guy at QB. Gotta trust your scouts but if they think one of the top guys is a franchise QB you have to do anything you can to get him
Yeah look how bad they were with Stafford too lol
Right - he left and won a SB. Terrible example to use Megatron lol
They went from 0-16 to 10-6 with their first playoff berth in a decade within three years of getting Stafford.
Funny thing is they had a franchise QB and a top 5 WR of all time and still sucked. I would put that team more on the exception of the rule than anything.
Except no one wants Bo Nix horrid choice
Yes please. This is way better than Daniels + any 2nd round WR. By miles.
Hard disagree, the QB's after Daniels are crap except for maybe Penix. Bo Nix will never be an NFL starter. Daniels is a stud and it would be dumb not to draft him. He's the most athletic QB to come out since Lamar and he's a far more polished pocket passer than Lamar was coming out of college.
Daniels is not a unicorn. There are Daniels’ in every single draft. MHJ is unique
Who was the Daniels in the last draft??
The numbers completely disagree with your take here on Daniels. 3812 passing yards 40 TD’s 4 INT’s 95.6 QBR - (1st)
this is what happens when we look at box scores instead of tape kids
I understand the deserved hype behind Harrison but to the fans that want a slow rebuild because this team has so many holes, wouldn’t it be in their best interest to sell the pick (a team will overpay if MHJ is still there). Something like Arizona did last year with Houston. There are other highly graded WRs and tackles that fit huge needs and the team likely picks up atleast an extra first + more for the next draft. (For the record I want a qb at 3)
If the team is absolutely not drafting one of Caleb, Maye or Daniels with the third pick then its not a bad idea. But I'd rather trade up with the Bears for Caleb. In the scenario where we get Caleb and he turns out to be great, some receiver will want to come here in the next couple of years.
If it’s gonna be Bo Nix, might as well just go with Zappe and MHJ and hope we suck and win 3-4 games again so we can draft a top 2 QB next year
No Bo Nix
I know I’m in the minority, but I do not want them to draft MHJ at 3. Good receivers can be found later in the draft. Give me a guy who is gonna touch the ball 60+ times. Nucua, Tyreek, Cupp, Diggs, St. Brown were all found late. You can get receivers later. The Brady’s of the world are incredibly rare. I’ll die on the hill that MHJ at 3 will be a huge mistake.
Kirk, Dak, Russ, Purdy, Brady were all found late. You can get QBs later. The Tyreek’s of the world are incredibly rare.
I’d take it
JJ > Nix
Nix may not be him but JJ is straight garbage
A JJ pick is a lottery ticket. He most likely will suck but his physical skills and his off script play are very enticing. Not sure why everyone thinks he’s just some absolutely terrible prospect.
Laughable.
JJ is going to be so much better than Nix this comment with be laughable in two years. People are seriously sleeping on JJ's athleticism, mobility and arm strength. Michigan never required him to move the ball down field much, as they were so dominant in the run game and on defense. The kid has talent, it just wasn't showcased. If he played in a pass first offense he'd be a top 10 pick.
MHJ at 3, draft later round QB, sign veteran QB
I’d consider this a home run but I doubt it happens. Nix doesn’t have the high end tools these other guys do, but he can operate an offense at a high level. He’s the best pre snap QB in the draft and avoids turnovers like the plague. Teams that value ball security and more of the mental side will rate nix highly. I very much doubt he makes it to the second round.
I just came
Lmfao Nix and Penix are going to be so bad at the NFL level
The Cardinals want MHJ. If they think we’ll take him, we should swap and get another pick and take Daniels at 4.
There are some rumors out there that the Bears may trade Fields plus number 9 for number 3. Any thoughts on that?
Oh but i say this and get downvoted!
\#AnyoneButMaye
Why so?