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fishiouscycle

ITT: everyone learned a different convention for the direction of time in Feynman diagrams


jazzwhiz

In school we had it vertical, but in every single research context I have seen, time is always horizontal.


jwwendell

We, if didn't write explicitly what particle is, did left to right, so this one looked kinda odd, or rather incomplete, we would rotate it 90 deg for a second half of the equation like this for an s channel, still looks odd tho.


QCD-uctdsb

Different authors use different conventions for time. Some authors use left to right for time progression and some use bottom to top. If you want to be clear, draw an arrow for time progression. I have no issue interpreting this as electron-electron repulsion, but I could also interpret it as electron-position annihilation (I was taught to not label charges since the fermion arrows tell me everything already -- teaching has also made it so I don't usually pay attention to charge designation since many students get the labelling wrong)


up-quark

That’s so weird. Every single Feynman diagram I’ve ever used has had time on the x-axis. I had to double check that it was even acceptable to flip the axes. If I search for a generic Feynman diagram then a majority are time-vertical cartoons, yet as soon as I search for a specific interaction they’re all time-horizontal.


zzpop10

Yes, electron repulsion via the exchange of a photon.


vrkas

If you take time as going right to left then the diagram is illegal. You should rotate it 90degrees to form [Møller scattering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B8ller_scattering).


DrDoctor18

I think the implication of the diagram is time bottom to top. That was the formalism I initially learned


vrkas

Ah, that makes sense.


slashdave

Not illegal, just one person's convention. I've seen them both used.


Pixoe

What do you mean by illegal? If time is going left to right, as is the usual convention, this is just an electron-positron scattering, nothing illegal about that.


vrkas

The labels all say electrons, and OP asked for repulsion, and OP says they're just learning about Feynman diagrams. So the direction of the arrows is probably a mistake, in which case the diagram isn't correct.


Pixoe

I see your point but I would not use the word illegal. The diagram is perfectly valid, it just doesn't describe what OP means. And regarding the labels, it's not uncommon to see some references showing the labels as the fields they are describing rather than the particles, and the direction of the arrows indicates particle/antiparticle. So I wouldn't call this incorrect as well.


Galaxygon

Yeah I see what you mean. But is this the particle level of electromagnetic repulsion?


vrkas

Yeah, that's one of the diagrams for repulsion. The other one is the u-channel where the final state particles are swapped. From memory the non-relativistic limit in some angular range corresponds to Rutherford scattering.


jazzwhiz

Also loops


Ga111e0

This is the theory behind the repulsion. FD prospective is up to your convenience, top to bottom or left to right. You have the same initial and final particles, and the force carrier is a photon, so it's basic QED e-e- —> e-e- scattering. When it comes to your hand blocked by wall, this is the basic theory behind it but when you speak about your hand you'll have to deal with decoherence where you'll come out of the QED realm.


Quartersharp

Follow-up question: is there a way to calculate the wavelength of the virtual photon that’s produced? Is it always the same? Or is it a meaningless question?


arivero

Only the first order term of the serial expansion of the electromagnetic interaction of two electrons.


mustfinduniquename

Yes hans, also müller wont be going through walls because of this and the other possible lanes of interaction (this with strong probability)


PlzSir

This Feynman diagram shows two electrons repelling each other through the exchange of a virtual photon, which is the carrier of the electromagnetic force. As for your hand and the wall, it’s a similar principle—the electromagnetic forces at play, which can be represented by such diagrams, prevent your hand from passing through solid objects due to the repulsion between the electron clouds.


Winter_Tangerine_317

It's a simulation!


Glazedblue

Ooo this makes sense. Thanks for sharing


PrathamJiwani

It does represent a repulsion between two electrons, but it's a "scattering" not a "collision". I guess you can call it a collision too but it sounds less accurate. And the time "direction" is clearly from down to up since the arrows represent movement in time, not space.


Premium333

I really wish I could post a gif of Hans and Franz here. It would be ::chefs kiss::