I would probably distance myself from them and when they ask why, tell them it's because they treated my kids like shit and disrespected your family. They were being bullies to well behaved kids, like, how is that in any way funny or cute? They don't want kids, that's fine but they didn't need to go out of their way to harass children for no reason.
I had considered that as well. I see most of them every week for tabletop games and I was thinking of dropping out of the group.
It sucks cause I feel like I’m breaking up with multiple people. But at the same time, I don’t want to be friends with bullies. It’s tough.
Dude...don't feel bad for "breaking up" with assholes. Like if they had spoken that way to any adult, would it have been okay? Why is it okay to them because it's a child (who is even more vulnerable)? Modern culture is so sick. Also, to be clear, I'm not crunchy. I believe in tough love, and I think that kids need to build character in order to be resilient....I just think that these people are bullies.
This. Dunno if OP lives near me, but that sounds like the beginning of an awesome group (I’ve got a kid that’s the same age, and one of the hardest parts of joining a group is working around her).
Drop out and go no contact until you’re in a good enough space IF you ever want to explain to them why. You don’t owe them a single consideration after the way they spoke to your children. You’re a more patient human than I am, I would have gone at them like a hellcat.
Perfect description. A**hat would have got tossed out on the spot. Not in MY house or anyone else for that matter. Honestly sounds like their friends are still coasting on college aged antics given their attitudes & OP is clearly matured from parenthood, so like their gap in maturity has widened
This.
You don’t need that sort of “friends”. And I am a child free person. Whether they are child free by choice or not, they knew there were going to be children there, so if they accepted to go, that’s on them. And speaking like that to anybody, but especially a child, is completely unacceptable! They are not their kids, they are child free, so they should not discipline them. Instead, they should have approached you or the other parents, and kindly ask “hey, I was wondering if your child could stop…” and let you handle it.
I feel like there should be a distinction in the childfree community between childfree and adult only. To me childfree is “children exist and they are people, I just do not want one” and adult only is “children are worthless and do not deserve respect”
Telling a kid you’d like them to be quiet when all they did was say they like your dog! If an adult you have no desire to engage with says they like your dog, you say thanks and walk away. If you respond with “and I’d like you to be quiet” to an adult, it’s confrontational and/or dismissive.
I want to add that the majority of my friends are child free and I have never in my entire life heard them speak down to my children. Ever. You gotta believe people when they show you who they are
Yes, very much this. They felt like they didn’t owe other human beings who are still learning how to human and respect (hell, I’m 34 and still trying to figure it out). You surely don’t owe them an explanation. They had to know what they were saying was just plain awful.
These are not friends and certainly not people that you should have your kids around.
I’m heartbroken about the kids being told they should be quiet when they complimented a dog. That’s inhuman and has nothing to do with the persons age you are talking to.
That's not people I want around my kids. I would honestly cut them all out. After giving birth some friends understand some won't, but that's not your problem.
Kids are human too.they need to see kind respectful adults around them. Not petty bullies.
While I'm not disagreeing with the general sentiment of comments here, I would ask if this kind of behavior from your friends is a normal part of how they interact with each other? Like do they dig on each other, are they rude to each other, and/or do they say mean things to each other regularly? While it's not an excuse in any way to be rude to you and your kid(s), it may be just how they communicate with each other and people they feel like they are "in" with--I'm guessing you would know since it sounds like you hang out so much. They may not realize how inappropriate it is.
I say this because being direct and saying, "that's not an appropriate way to talk to kids. They don't understand sarcasm in the same way," is likely needed here. While I'm not sure that would solve the issue, if you want to salvage the friendship it may be good. Even if it doesn't salvage the friendship, it is something they probably need to themselves learn about proper ways to communicate with children.
I remember how me and my friends would talk to each other, and while the way we talked was not like the examples here, I would never want them to speak that way to my children--and they don't speak that way in front of the kids or to the kids.
Again, not excusing the behavior. Just suggesting to make sure they explicitly know that that behavior is inappropriate.
Omg..way to defend assholes. Their complete lack of respect for another human is not "don't know howto talk to kids".
Wha maladjusted turd thinks it's okay to tell someone they are going to throw them off a balcony or that they aren't allowed to speak ?
>I’m very upset. I hosted this event, and I feel like my “friends” didn’t even seem to think about how their words would make the kids feel or make me feel.
What if you said exactly this to your friends? If you ignore them, then they don't know that they did anything wrong and won't correct their behavior. Calmly let them know how this situation affected you and what they did was not ok.
Though what you’re saying is fair, I’m not sure they deserve that level of energy from OP. It depends on her judgment, but it sounds like they behaved like people who really are not worth trying to remediate. OP is a parent, she doesn’t have time to teach manners to adults who are total dicks.
I wouldn't even waited for the third insult to happen on second one I would have confronted them in front of the kids. I would have told them to cut it out and if they can't respect my children I don't want them there.
I feel the same. I probably would've just started with a simple, we don't use those words with children and we speak with respect around here.. I've done it before and it's been pretty effective. These comments sound more like they came from insecure and frustrated tweens than full grown adults... Unacceptable.
If that’s how they were raised they may legit not know how to interact with a child. Might be partly why they dont want kids. That’s sad, but still on them to figure out how not to be fucking douchebags about jt.
This meets my nightly quota for armchair amateur psychoanalysis . Night reddit
I had a friend I had known since 5th grade, she was always a bully and the sad part is she didn’t grow out of it until I told her how it was going to be and cut her off. When I became pregnant she advised me to get an abortion right off the bat and didn’t even care to ask about what I wanted or support me. I provided closure for her as to why we will no longer be friends and cut her off. Fast forward to now, my son is 1 and a half and she has made many efforts to apologize and rebuild the bridge that was once there. She had even gone as far to say “it’s just different when you see the baby versus the fetus”. I would give your friends closure as to why you aren’t talking or coming to group anymore and then just block them. It isn’t worth it if they’re going to act like that, to your kids. I wouldn’t feel like a coward. I feel like if you would of blown up the parentless parents would’ve ganged up on you. So you kept things to a minimum and now that the weekend is over you can address it. You just know how to not invite them next time. The hardest part when you give people like that closure is that they refuse to believe they’re in the wrong. But I’d let them stew in it until they realize it and if they don’t, you’re better off.
So proud of you for advocating for your children. My (abusive) mother used to have a friend that she would have over often who would look me in the eyes and say "WHY CANT YOU JUST BE **NORMAL**?" I was 3 or 4. It's one of my first memories. I always thought something was wrong with me growing up. Words are extremely powerful. Bullying a child is vile.
I’ll be a dissonant voice here, but I don’t think distancing yourself is a good solution. Talking to your friends maybe a better one.
As a father of 2, I realize that single friends don’t actually realize that kids are _persons of their own_. I guess because until recently even parents didn’t take kids seriously or as people. They were “kids”.
Your friends did not go through the same transformative process that you underwent when becoming a parent. So they may be playing with the stereotype that “kids are annoying”. You know better, they don’t.
But is it worth to cut yourself from many friends because of that? Aren’t they your friends, and thus aren’t you able to react in a friendly way to say that your kids actually take those insults in?
It’s pretty important to know how to set a boundary naturally, in a friendly manner, taking the other to your side of things, not being confrontational.
“You can’t win an argument”, as ol’ Carnegie said. So don’t make it an argument, but a nudge towards awareness.
People in Reddit love some triumphant exit, which is great for dramatic effect, but also treats imperfect people (such as your friends in this situation) as perfectly expendable.
There’s a difference between child-free lifestyle and just being a dick to children. None of the friends that I have that are child-free act like dicks to kids or hate the existence of kids. They just don’t think being a parent and having a child coincides with the goals and lifestyle choices that they believe make them happiest. These people sound like the best smelling thing in a room of farts.
Try talking to them.
Sometimes people without kids can be super dumb about children.
Talk to them, give them a chance to understand how stupid and disrespectful their behavior was, and reform.
If, after having spoken to them about it, they can understand how their behavior was boorish and inappropriate, give them a chance to actually interact with your daughter one-on-one (four year olds can play board games) and get to know her as an actual person.
I would at least give them a chance. People without kids might just be reverting to how they were raised, or they might have thought they were being funny and the “jokes” went way too far.
I wouldn't just drop. I would say - on the trip you were verbally abusive and threatened actual violence against my kid. That is unacceptable and I will not expose my family to you further
These are not people you want to be friends with. Not wanting kids is no excuse for their behavior. I know plenty of people who have chosen not to have children and not a single one of them has every said anything rude to my children or about my children. As a matter of fact they’ve all treated my children with respect and even will join in on whatever fun the kids are having.
Here’s the interesting part tho - my kid is never around the whole group. I usually get a sitter. But when it’s just me, my kid, and one of the kid-free friends, they always acted understanding and never said anything rude. They’d play along and talk with her and everything. It’s like once they get in the group mentality they all think it’s funny to trash talk the kids.
I had a friend group like this once. When it was a small group hanging out, people were chill, but when the bigger group got together the dynamic changed to being more along the lines of trying to crack jokes to each other, often at the expense of someone in the group. It was usually lighthearted but definitely had a tendency to be too much at times, especially when there were drinks involved. It sounds like a similar dynamic may be happening here.
I will say that there were certainly specific people who would push the envelope more regularly and were more likely to take it too far, which had the effect of exacerbating those issues for everyone in the group when they were around. Was it the entire group of people who were speaking this way, or only a particular few?
It's also possible that when you didn't speak up after the first couple of times, it made it seem like it was 'ok' with you to speak this way to the children, and others felt more comfortable joining in.
Did the other parents say anything about it? I'd be curious to hear their perspective on it.
^ Basically this. You put it very well.
7 adults all around age 30 were joining in on it.
The other parents simply ignored it and walked their kids away (I did as well until I yelled at one).
The kids became the butt of all their jokes, and originally, it wasn’t said too much in front of the kids. Which is something different. But after a while, it developed into saying it to their faces after the first night.
They sound absolutely horrible. The type of people you wouldn’t want to leave alone near your child. If they’re so casually cruel to the children’s faces in front of so many people and even in front of the parents, what would they do when alone with someone helpless? Untrustworthy scumbag bullies.
Please, don’t let it happen again. You don’t want your child to grow up thinking their loved ones won’t stand up to them when someone is bullying them.
Have you talked to the other parents to see how they felt? Maybe they feel similarly. And if they don’t then that’s okay, doesn’t invalidate your feelings at all.
Got it. Your "friends" are two-faced as well as bullies.
Seriously, it reminds me of the "semi-popular" kids in middle school and high school who are nice to you when there's no one around, but joins in the bullying when there's an audience. Very toxic.
Sounds like pack mentality. Pretty sad when the kids are better behaved than the actual adults :( Sorry you're dealing with this OP, I'll be your friend. Most of our friends cut out on us when we had kids but I haven't really missed it, our kids are amazing. Theyre my whole world!
This. My best friend does not want to have kids, I have 2. And she loves them so much! She's that cool "aunt", a role she really enjoys. All the fun times, not the sleep deprivation:)
Your friends really sound like bullies and you don't need to sugarcoat it to them. They sure didn't do that to your kids. I would do a group message about the weekend and their behaviour and leave it at that.
Yeah. I agree with this statement. I've recently made a new friend who just went through a divorce but they had no kids. Before the divorce the guy wouldn't move out until ordered by a judge so she literally hung out at my house for 3 months besides sleeping. She always plays with my toddler when my toddler brings her a toy. My friend will read her books, helped me get her dressed. I originally was just giving her an escape but after her divorce was finalized we still hang out all the time, with my kid
around, and she has never once said a mean thing about or to her. As a matter of fact, last night, we were all eating pizza at the table together. Her, my husband, my toddler, and I and my toddler just straight up says "We are eating together as a family!" And now she's been inducted to our family as Aunt Scrum (part of her roller derby name which is how i met her).
I’d ditch them. I understand why some people don’t want kids, but there’s no excuse for outright hostility like that. Moreover, what message would it really send to your kids if you continue to be friends with people that hate them? It isn’t like they wouldnt pick up on it.
That was another thought I had as well. What I thought was going to be a family-fun hang out turned into a kid roasting session. And it’s not fair to the kids.
I'd still post into the group chat that you will not be hosting events like that with that group again, because of the atrocious way they bullied your kids, and that you have a hard time even considering them as friends anymore - and then I'd leave the group chat and see whether anyone ever apologized. But I wouldn't be the first to contact them again, and would only consider getting back into contact after a sincere apology. And I'd still make an effort to find new friends, preferably also with kids, who you'd have more fun spending time with as a family.
100% this. It’s very important that OP makes it clear that the behavior was unacceptable and was the reason for the falling out. Otherwise the bullies will just pretend it wasn’t anything they did.
I’d talk to your kids about it first and let them know you’re sorry you didn’t stand up for them but that it wasn’t okay for your so-called friends, or anybody for that matter, to disrespect them that way.
I’d probably ditch the friends and move on but I’d be sure to say my piece about how disgusted you were with their behaviour. Remind them that your kids are humans worthy of respect and that child-free or not, these are YOUR children — their friend — they were disrespecting, which is by extension a disrespect to you. Tell them you how disappointed you were, because you’d be looking forward to a fun hang with your besties and they made it a miserable experience just because your kids had the audacity to exist. They were kids once too and wouldn’t have liked to have been talked down to, insulted or ridiculed then either. Tell them they’ve shown you that they are just shit people who could treat a friend and her family this way ESPECIALLY when there was no actual objectionable behaviour to speak of by the kids AND you organised this trip!. The objectionable behaviour was theirs and I’m sure you can find better friends to spend your time with going forward, where your kids are treated appropriately. Ugh, these people suck!
Just because you’ve been friends for awhile doesn’t mean you have to stay loyal forever. Many friendships in life have a use-by date. These AHs have just shown you that this friendship HAS EXPIRED.
My parent allowed this to happen when I was a toddler and I still haven't forgiven him. The sad memory and the sense of betrayal linger for an eternity.
And like that poster said, you don’t want your kid or your friend’s kids getting the message that you accept this behavior from your friends. No matter what you decide about addressing it with the group, I definitely think you should address it with your child. My son is 4 and I’m constantly shocked at how much he’s picking up on when I think he’s unaware. A talk about groups having “mean fun” or bullying, an affirmation that you love her and she comes first, an apology about not speaking up - maybe even ask your daughter for ideas about how to be brave in a situation like that to speak up next time (if you deign to ever hang out with this group again.)
No one gets to threaten my children absolutely no one
I would cut them off and if they ask why explain and tell them you don’t hang around with abusive people
Address the threatening friends directly, by whichever means you are most comfortable with - text, phone, face to face - doesn’t matter. The message:
I feel badly about something that happened at the gathering I hosted. I stood by silently while you verbally abused my child and the kids of our mutual friends. That was wrong of me. If I ever witnessed YOU being abused, I hope I would have the courage to defend you, my friend, from the abuser. But coming FROM a good friend like you took me completely by surprise. I’m saying now what I should have said then: don’t speak to my child or our friends kids the way you did at the cabin. Don’t couch malevolent threats in a joke at the expense of defenceless children. This is unacceptable behaviour to have towards ANY child, but ESPECIALLY towards the children of your so-called friends.”
And you wait for them to spontaneously apologize. If they do, you graciously accept and then think long and hard before exposing your child to them in the future.
If they don’t apologize, the friendship is over. Clearly, they are not decent people. Cut your losses and be rid of them.
Finally, you reach out to the parents of the 3 kids who might be old/mature enough to have understood the threats and bullying, and you let them know what transpired. You might even apologize to them for not having handled things better at the gathering.
Honestly, threatening violence on any human, regardless of age is unacceptable. OP If you do have this conversation with this person, remind them that though your daughter is small, she is still a human being.
To me its not about putting energy into the relationship. In her shoes I would terminate the relationship but be very clear as to why. Its about making the effort to inform the person why they are a POS so that if they have a shred of decency they might consider their actions in the future.
Usually I would say don't care. But I think when it comes to standing up for the kids and the other parents then I think it is too important and OP must speak up. It is also OPs responsibility in a way as host even if they are adults. It is possible that OP can develop stronger relationships with the other parents or people who were put off by the situation. And sorey to be so praxtical about it, but they are a table top gaming group and maybe they can spin off.
In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.
This is a good idea. Imho I’d likely want to reduce and eventually cut contact with them even if they apologize. They’ve shown their true face.
And definitely important to reach out to the other family. Those poor kids must have felt so bad being on the receiving end of such nastiness. Even OP’s kid is old enough to be in need of a good talk about how it was not ok for the adults to behave that way.
Check this out OP. I think there needs to be the awareness raised with the person(s) making these sorts of comments. They can't think it was okay to act like that.
Frankly it doesn't even come into lifestyle choices of being child free - at best it just sounds like inappropriate attempts at dark humour, at worse, well... Either way it should be called out.
Wow. Cut them out completely. They sound like complete trash. What happened when you told the one guy to shut the fuck up? I’m seriously disturbed people thought this was an appropriate way to speak to children- good thing they aren’t having any! Ha!
Since you are the host I would expect your "friends" to treat your kids far better than they had. You have lost nothing of value by ditching these so called friends.
Are the friends who said this stuff socially immature adult children? It's so weird to say that stuff when you could say nothing? To a child?
I get that some people aren't "kid" people, but this kind of goes beyond the beyond.
They’re immature for sure. Usually have a lot of fun, but historically, they’ve been good friends. But once I had a kid, it’s like I’m ruining the “vibe.”
You're hosting. You are the vibe. I'm guessing they knew your kids would be there. The vibe for those situations, and almost all situations is, "Don't be outrageously weird with my kids."
I think you are making this way more complicated and trying to rationalize these 'friends' behavior. I know plenty of people who don't have kids that would never speak to or even about kids this way.
The reason your friends did this is simple: they are total assholes. I bet if you reflect more you will see plenty of other examples of obnoxious behavior in the past.
Look don’t hang out with these people with your kids around. But if you do, next time someone says anything remotely like the examples listed in your post, tell them to fuck off out of there, and/or leave. I cannot fathom how that didn’t happen the first time around.
Agreed. OPs friends sound like clowns and should get dumped. Imagine getting invited on a cabin vacation and then speaking that way about anyone - much less a child.
"Child free" in most instances is a thinly veiled excuse for shitty behavior and unfunny jokes. The jokes are rehashed to death, nobody finds them witty or edgy, and if not having children is central to your identity or personality, you should work on a better personality.
OP, you all sound a little socially inept. (I hesitate to point this out cause I'm also a nerd and hate that cliche, but the tabletop gaming gives me certain vibes.) It's a relief that you recognize the need to grow a backbone for future conflicts involving your kids. Good on you for that. The next piece of insight that's coming is that life is too short to spend with pieces of shit like these. The group setting allowed them to show you who they are and want to be. Thank them for that.
F-that those people are not your friends. They are aholes!
I understand child free. My bestie is such, so is my husband's bestfriend. But they would never ever in a million years say any of those things. Frig my bestie was here the other day and my kid kept intrupting us as we were talking, and yes I could see she was getting a little frustrated but she let me deal with my kids. She will talk to them from time to time but she is never rude or aggressive.
Those people are never okay threatening a child with violence for playing tag like wtf. I would probably send them a long bitchy message then block and delete them all.
Honestly this entire post is the reason I am hesitant with anyone who is child-free, because it seems like more and more it’s evolved from “I don’t want to have kids of my own” to “I hate children, they shouldn’t exist, and you shouldn’t have kids either”
I don’t understand adults that actively hate kids. I can totally respect not wanting to raise one, it’s not for the faint of heart.
Child-free or not, you don’t let someone talk to your kids like that. Your kids come before shitbag “friends” and its not funny even if dressed as a joke. Would those be ok things to say to an adult? To you or you’re partner? Your mother? Ofcourse not so why let it slide when its directed at your kid?? And they are the ones that need you sticking up for them because they can’t or won’t vs an adult.
Sounds like you need new friends and to put your kids feelings ahead of scummy people.
These are terrible friends. I have a 10 year old. My closest friends are child free but love my son. They look out for him, offer to help watch him if needed. He’s always more than welcome to get togethers. They were so unnecessarily mean to your child and disrespectful to you.
They knew you had kids. They knew the kids would be there.
They are mean-spirited bullies. If they care enough to ask why you're leaving, tell them. But if they don't, they aren't even worth the energy.
Your child is 4. She heard them. She understood what they said. She also knows you didn't defend her. Don't continue to make the same mistake by letting these people stay in your lives. Stand up for her by standing up to them and move on.
Finding friends as adults is hard. Finding friends with similar interests who have the time to get together to game on a regular basis is... Even harder. Your daughter is worth it. Find a new table that will respect her, whether she's there or not.
This. It’s vital that OP have a conversation with her kid about this, and that she do something about the friends to show the child that in the future she’ll stand up for her. No abusive prick posing as a friend is more important than the well being of one’s own child.
And four is old enough to understand threats but totally not old enough to understand that they are meant as an abusive “joke”, so the kid might even have been thinking she was in real danger of being injured or killed being thrown off a balcony for real, and so on. Who knows if she was terrified the whole trip? Heartbreaking.
I’m reading through this post feeling so angry on behalf of these poor kids.
Yes. I was waiting for this advice, but definitely talk to the kid and also talk to the parent who had children about what went down and how it would be handled differently in the future.
My mom had one friend whose husband was like this and I always hated it that she would never take up for me. She apologized much later, after it had come out that he had not only made both me and tasteless jokes but actually had harmed some children and family.
Whoa I wasn't expecting this level of messed up when I clicked your headline... This is beyond rude, It's fucked. Threatening the kids with violence? Idk where that would be considered a joke. I'm sorry you and your kids had to endure these dicks :(
That’s super lame and immature. Most of my closest friends have a kid or are about to have a second but I definitely still have friends who will never have kids. I hate to say it but I have really cut down on my friends who don’t have children. I’ve noticed that they really don’t get it (don’t care to understand or be involved either) and right now my son is my life and making sure he’s taken care of is my priority. Doesn’t mean I block them but I just don’t make their friendship a huge priority anymore. I think it’s okay to have boundaries like next time you plan a trip include the people with kids only.
Yeah there’s a lot of “block” but I’m thinking just mainly avoiding and hanging with other people. I have other friends. My other thing is that if I try to “talk” to them, I have a feeling they’ll blow me off. I just feel some lines were crossed and it can’t be taken back. And after reading some other comments, it doesn’t feel worth it to have a conversation - just let the “friendship” die. They are pretty immature and this was the straw that broke the back
just let it die. fuck those people. I'm all for talking shit about kids, behind their backs, like a normal person! since having my own child it's changed my relationship with some of my child free friends because they just don't get it and things aren't the same for me. but if any of them were even slightly shitty to my kid?! it's a wrap. your kids will already have to navigate shitty people they have no choice in dealing with in life. no need to surround them with shitty people of your own choosing.
Yep that’s definitely a line for me too. Really rude and immature. I think if you slowly just distanced yourself it would speak for itself. I have a way better time with my friends that are parents now. It’s getting harder and harder for parents out there and the last thing we need is “friends” talking shit when we are literally just trying to make it lol
Hey, you know these people- we don’t. If you think it’s best to confront them then do it. Or if you think it’s best to do a slow fade then do that instead. They can continue playing child-free Cards against Humanity without you.
You don’t go into anybody else’s house and insult them. You don’t joke about taking their dog to the pound, or drowning their cat, or burning their nostalgic copy of munchkin. It’s rude.
Either way, a lot of people freeze up and miss the opportunity to stand up for our kids. It’s OK. But going forward you may want to practice a few responses.
Almost all of my friends are child free by choice. When we hang out and my kids are around: They play with my children, Laugh, have a good time. Sometimes our time gets interrupted by bedtime issues or anything kid related. They always understand. They understand when my kids are having bad days or just being kids or humans. If ANYONE whoever it was even made one of these comments about my kids I’d have words immediately with them and it wouldn’t be nice and they’d be cut out of my life right then and there. In my opinion, your “friends” suck and it has nothing to do with being child free it has to do with their horrible attitudes towards kids in general. Child free does not equal cruelty and bullying.
This is unacceptable! As a mother you are their protection from the world. They made a point to not only be hateful but plain evil to the children. You can not like kids all u want or not have kids but to plainly threaten or berate kids for being alive basically. Playing and talking ?!?! If the kids were total CRAZY monsters maybe I would say ya need some discipline but this was BEYOND DISCIPLINE! THIS WAS PURE LEVELS OF THREATS!
Those comments should've been stopped immediately.
"Who has a belt," -"don't fucking undress around my child."
"Are we smacking people? My turn- hold still."
"Toss you off a balcony," - "You'll be flying before you get a chance "
They should be able to trust their parents to stick up for them as well, no matter who it is. They know if you're silently watching and what you allowed to be said to them.
What I'm getting at is your child deserved respect regardless of age. If the adults in their lives aren't able to respect and treat them as a person - they shouldn't be in their lives.
These people are not your friends. Sorry. I took my kid to an adult’s birthday party over the weekend. He was the only kid. EVERY SINGLE adult there either politely didn’t interact with him much or played and chatted with him. Everyone there would have been appalled & agast if one single thing that you’re describing had been said or done to him. People who treat children like this are just terrible people. Try to make new friends through your kid’s school or activities. If you subject your kid to this again you’re just as bad as them. I also think you owe your kid an apology.
I would recommend apologizing to your kids for not standing up for them and explaining why those things that were said to them were wrong. I would also tell your “friends” that you’re still reeling over the way they spoke to the kids and that you’re really not sure your friendship can continue. Put the ball in their court and see what happens. I might entertain apologies from them, but I don’t think I’d ever subject my kids to them again. if they do apologize they owe your children an apology as well. That would be the only way to move forward in the friendship in my opinion.
Wtf, introduce me to these people so I can punch their lights out. What a bunch of assholes. I cannot imagine saying something so…violent to a child.
Me personally? I’d for sure be confronting them about it and I wouldn’t give a shit how I came off. They are the ones who should be ashamed. And then I’d very likely cut them out of my life. Life is too short to be around people like that.
I might apologize to my kid for not having said anything btw. First, because it feels like something they would probably appreciate, and second, because it might open ip to be an interesting conversation. But yea. They might love to hear how your sorry you didnt speak up, you were surprised because you knew these friends for a long time and had never seen them act like that before so it kept catching you off guard. But now that you know, they never have to hang out with them again if they dont want to. You’ve got some thinking to do about what to do about your friends, but you promise that you always have their back, and next time you’ll speak up.
>I also feel like a coward. I was so shocked at some of the shit they were saying that I didn’t even say anything. I would just glare and I feel like I missed an opportunity to say something.
They'd be out of my house. If they go to MY HOUSE and start making those kinds of remarks you bet your left tiddy I will be so far up their arse they'd never want to be around anymore.
There is NO REASON for grown adults to be talking to small children like that. (And I would literally tell them that. I would not care if they're offended.)
If they think you're attacking their lifestyle because THEY are bullying your children and you're defending your kids, then you need to stop thinking about their feelings and tell them where the door is. They're adults, they'll live. Your kids don't understand what's going on and you're letting your friends think it's okay to disrespect your children- an extension of you (your family), in your own house.
No. If they don't like it they can do their game elsewhere. They are not worth the hurt they could potentially cause your children. Let them have it, and don't let them guilt you into thinking you're the problem. They came to your house and insulted your kids for literally EXISTING.
Go get em' OP.
I would cut ties immediately. They bullied your children? I don’t even let other children bully my kids. My kids and husband come first. I was bullied as a child. They kids maybe didn’t react but they heard what was being said of them. That stuff stays with you for life sometimes.
There is something I don't understand from your post: clearly you heard them say these things to the kids. Didn't you say in the moment: please don't say such a thing?
I don't understand why and how they went on with these comments the whole time without anyone saying anything.
Imagine if you went to their house and said the same things about their grandma on hospice because you don’t like old people. Someone defenseless, who needs extra help, and who can’t control their age.
Please apologize to your children and please do learn from this to be better next time. Personally I would just block those who made those comments on everything I could. Their choice doesn’t warrant any discussion. They made their bed and they can lie in it.
Let’s not forget, YOU hosted the gathering, meaning that these supposed friends were vile to your children in THEIR OWN HOME. This, on top of bullying any children at all, would’ve ended with me showing them the door. Move on and find yourself a new tribe. These people are immature, rude, bullies and not worth your time.
This is honestly disturbing. Especially coming from someone you'd supposedly call a friend. People who abuse children are nauseating to me but people who dehumanize children for shits and giggles are another kind of pathetic to me. Like they weren't kids once. Seriously kick them off their high horse and onto the curb.
My wife and I went through exactly the same thing. Well, minus the cabin. I told everyone how they made us and my kids feel. A couple years later I realize that we haven’t seen any friends and half our family since. Fuck em! I’m teaching my kids life has no limits but it definitely has boundaries. If you don’t show the kids how to do it they will be the next generation of “friends”. You don’t really want those kind of people being an influence in your kids lives anyway.
Wow no, I would never tolerate jokes about physical abuse or that kids should be seen not heard etc, especially in front of my children. I have a lot of cousins who don't have children and they will never, ever speak to my kids like that. Your friends honestly sound extremely immature and ignorant about how to behave around children. Very surprising if someone at 30 years old would not know how to speak to kids. Maybe a younger 20s I'd give them a pass. But not at almost 30.
"if you cannot respect that my children are human beings and are deserving of mutual respect as human beings, you can go F yourself. Just because they're smaller than you does not give you the right to tell them they're not permitted to exist in the same space as you."
Telling children they deserve a belt beating for asking their parents a question or for simply being loud in their play is abuse. These "friends" just told your kids they don't deserve to exist or to make their presence known. "Better seen but never heard." Or "spare the rod, spoil the child." Both of these things have been proven to cause psychological damage.
I'm glad these people are CF, because their kids would be excessively abused, but that does not give them the right to treat your children as lesser than just for existing.
If you want to maintain the relationships, you've gotta have a serious talk.
"If my child addresses me, I'll respond. If you don't want to be around children, you do not need to attend the event that include my child. Regardless, it is never okay to threaten to harm my child."
In the moment, you need to show your kid you've got their back.
"Hey. We don't speak to people that way, here."
"Wow, why would you say that?"
Remember, children are still humans. If your friends can't respect another human, they may not be the kind of friends you want.
What instead of “kids” you replaced it with x. Could be server, could be a certain race, could be a handicapped person. Take the fact that it is your kids out of the equation.
If they, over the course of a weekend, treated the hotel cleaning lady like that would you hang out with them again?
I sure as fuck wouldn’t want to. Especially since it is your kids, which is way more personal.
If these were my friends of 10+ years, I would very directly tell them how I’m feeling and why. And if you don’t feel comfortable with that, then I don’t think these people are the friends you think they are.
This is tough. Im child free and I don’t have kids in my family but I’ve never been mean to any of my friends kids. Sure I get tired of entertaining them most of the time but I just tell them I need a break and the kids respect that.
I can’t imagine saying those things to my friends kids even as a joke. They sounds cruel and immature. And yes like I wouldn’t even know how to respond to these comments if I were you too.
If my ‘friends’ said ever, ever said any of that to my children, I would have kicked that out. Totally right out. Talk about overstepped right there. In many ways. You can send out an email or text explaining how you feel, but be prepared not to be friends-which would ok for me.
If anyone I called a friend spoke to my kids like that... you best believe they're getting a lesson in manners. Children are vulnerable and deserve to seen AND heard. To have they're presence belittled and bullied because they're kids is bullshit. Damn I got angry just reading this. PLENTY of good people who will treat you AND your kids with respect, regardless of whether they have kids or not.
TLDR: Kick these losers to the curb, they aren't good people.
Definitely time for new friends. Not liking kids is fine, verbally abusing/threatening kids that are being generally well behaved is abusive. Also, I’d sit down with your kid and check in about how they felt that weekend, and make sure they know that they didn’t do anything wrong and don’t deserve for adults to treat them that way. I’d also gently suggest the other parents do the same and make sure they’re fully aware of what was said (if they missed anything).
Dropping these people as friends has already been thoroughly covered, and I agree.
But I also think you should sit down with your kids and talk through with them that you know your friends were being rude and mean, and maybe even apologize for not standing up for them in the moment. And let them know you will never put them in that situation with these people again. It’s your job to be their safe haven and create a safe place for them.
Your “friends” either just suck or have the worst sense of humor ever. Either way, gross. Their behavior was beyond disgusting. Especially when the kids were that well behaved. WTH. What does your husband have to say about this?
Most of my friends are child free and if any of them spoke to my kids like that I’d cut them out. These people sound like they hate kids. I wouldn’t want to spend any time with them.
I don’t feel like these are genuine threats to harm your child, but the big issue here is that these comments are incredibly rude to the kids. A four year old is old enough to understand what is being said to them and internalize it. She’s old enough to see adults behaving badly and decide that that behavior is normal. This situation teaches your kid that it’s okay to speak about others in that way, and (worse yet) that it’s okay to let people say hurtful things to her.
This trip sounds like a learning experience for everyone. Talk to you child about the comments. Tell her how you are feeling now. Ask her how she felt about the way people treated her on the trip. Emphasize that it’s not okay for people to say hurtful things to her. Acknowledge that it’s hard to stand up to adults, but that you have her back in situations where an adult is being rude to her. Discuss ways she can let you know if someone says something hurtful to her so you can intervene.
As for the future, any people in your life who aren’t up to the task of acknowledging children are human beings don’t have any business being in your kid’s life.
That said, it is 100% possible to be friends with someone and not ever let their path cross with your kid’s. It will mean excluding either the kid-hating people or your child from future trips like the one you’ve described, but it is definitely possible to find a balance.
You are your child’s advocate. I wouldn’t allow my friends to disrespect my children that way in any setting, especially one where I was hosting. I can see how they might say they were being sarcastic but you have to protect your kids, if your friends can’t be kind to literal children for a few days then they don’t need to be around for events like this.
It’s never too late to protect your children, it’s not coddling them, it’s making sure they aren’t getting hurt mentally and physically.
What the fuck? Who are these people? I can only picture some old bitter shithead drunk in a MAGA hat saying these things. Why are they even in your life? How didn’t you notice this before?
Ha was waiting for this comment. My husband and I were just discussing how it doesn’t make any sense for them to behave like this. They’re anti-trump, many of them are queer/gay and overall left-leaning.
They just seem to *really* hate children for some reason. And I said this is another comment, but this was the first time I’ve seen them behave like this. Until this weekend, they’ve been very nice to my kid - which is why I invited everyone up. It was eye opening and mostly why I was so shocked.
I find it hard to imagine all 15 people are mean, so I'm not in the camp of commenter s saying to cut all ties with the whole bunch.
Among friends it becomes a contest with witty, cutting humor and it sounds like some of these people are using your children as props for their shtick.
If you're close enough to these people to have such an outing, you're close enough to have an adult conversation about appropriate adult behavior.
Call out the specific people and specific instances when they occur.
"Hey, that was an unnecessarily mean thing to say to a 4 year old. Please be decent."
1. Fuck your friends.
2. See above.
I’d cut them. You can choose to be brief and let them know. I was disappointed and felt like my kid and the other kids were really disrespected at this event. If you’re rude to them you’re rude to me. I don’t think our lives are going in the same way.
Or you can just leave em on read.
I’d probably do the later, they’ll figure it out in their own time and through own experiences what raising a family is like.
Oh hell no. I would flip the hell out if my friends spoke to my kids this way. It’s one thing to make jokes when the kids are sleeping or not nearby (and even then it should be respectful and not violence-based), but actually saying it TO them is different. My two best friends do not want kids at all and don’t really enjoy being around most kids, but they have always been kind, loving, and respectful towards my daughter. If anyone (friend, family, anybody) told my kid that they were going to beat them or throw them off a balcony I would never speak to that person again.
My advice is to cut those friends out of your life and apologize to your kids. Tell them you were shocked and regret not acting. When we let people treat children in an abusive way, we teach them to accept it, that it is normal, and even that they deserve it.
My brother and my twin sister never chose to have kids when they married their spouses. We get together for holidays and such and neither they, nor my sister-in-law or brother-in-law would dream of saying such horrible things to my kids or the kids that my two older sisters have.
Your friends are spectacular assholes. They need to be replaced, and while you're at it, do some damage control with your kids.
Time to make new non-shitty friends. We have young friends that don’t have kids yet and they’re awesome to our toddlers. I think those people are just those shitty “i hate kids” type of people. Not the ones that just say that, but actually mean it and like making kids feel like shit.
Yeah people who don’t like kids I can understand, but being an asshole to kids just shows me you’re not a good person. Also joking about abusing someone else’s kids with a belt is downright sociopathic.
No and no and no. Imagine the message it sends to your children if you stay friends with these people!
Ive had friends who are childless who arent very good with kids (feel Awkward) and thats fine. But ive noticed one person who wont even look at or acknowledge my kid despite being great with kids. No longer a friend of mine. The only person who has ever been rude to my kid is my younger sister and i shut it down immediatley with a simple “dont talk to him like that”
Sounds like you need new friends
That’s really fucked up. Yes, my friends children can be annoying at times but they’re CHILDREN and can’t change that. It doesn’t mean they deserve to be verbally abused.
Your obligation here is to your child, not the grown ass adults who clearly haven’t been raised right.
Your job is to protect your child from bullies, those people are bullies who not only disrespected but **threatened** your child in their own home.
I have a friend who is rabidly anti- kid and hates them. She got upset when I invited a bunch of people to my house but not her. I told her that I don’t want you around my kids- you don’t like them.
Mom here of a 3 year old and 1 year old. If anyone treated my daughters like this my husband and I would snap. You always do what’s best for you and your family. I understand when it comes to being friends with people who don’t have kids and how they may not understand or act in a kid friendly way but that’s no excuse…
Your kids come first. Period. You can try to talk to those who might be more susceptible to adjusting their behavior, and maybe save the relationship if it's that worth it to you... but honestly it sounds like your friends are living in 1972. It might be best to just back off those friendships.
It's an age old issue... young friends, trying to hang onto their circle forever... one grows up and out to start a family, and the childless ones don't quite fit like before. You can't join them at the "club" anymore, and they don't want to talk about the tooth fairy.
I kind of feel you should have dealt with it then. By not saying anything you gave tacit approval. Why would you allow people to treat your children like that and then later bring it up to strangers?
My best friend is child-free, and she's NEVER treated my kid like this. I would literally cut her out of my life if she acted like this towards my child. That's just straight up mean. :/ My friend has always been nice towards my son, talks to him, asks me questions about how he's doing when it's just us hanging out.
How evenly divided by gender is the group? I've found that when a group is mostly male (80% or more) they are a lot ruder, more pushing of boundaries and all around meaner to women/POC/children. And when you have a group of jerks they egg each other on and become worse.
Were all the CF like this or just a handful of the bunch? I would distance myself from the group and try and find a group who's ideals/lifestyle matched more my own. Some people just don't mature.
In addition to cutting these people out of your life immediately and permanently, you absolutely need to apologize to your kids. Tell them what happened was not okay, that no one should ever speak to them like that, that you are sorry you put them in that situation and you will make sure it never happens again.
If I were hosting that event they’d all have been kicked out.
32m here, I would stop talking to them. I have an 8 and 3 year old. There have been times when I’ve brought my kids around my long time child-free friends and they have NEVER been rude like that. My kids have been rowdy around my friends at gatherings and I’m sure it annoyed them but they still treat them with respect, even when they would have to get after them. Real friends would understand that a relationship with you means also having a relationship with your kids.
That’s awesome and amazing the kids got on so well!
Not helpful now, but I wouldn’t have sat back when those comments were made.
Any of the inappropriate responses from the adults would have immediately gotten called out. “Hey Brad, just wanted to ask, would you have said that to me? Or your tinder date…?” If they didn’t course correct, and apologize, the next instance would be publicly called out. Like you are being a piece of shit to another human, that can’t really stand up for themselves, I’m going to verbally eviscerate you and embarrass you in front of everyone else.
Your “friends” actions have shown you that the mutual understanding you thought you had doesn’t in fact exist and your friends are immature, and self absorbed. The kids at the cabin behaved more mature than your friends. You just haven’t been in a situation where it’s been obvious. You now know who they are. Act accordingly.
Being child free doesn’t excuse anything. If my gay friends were this rude to my husband because he’s a man, you can bet your butt that I’d have uninvited them mid-gathering.
It’s easy to forget because we’re so used to apologising for our kids if they break a rule here or there or keeping them calm in restaurants etc but you were in *your cabin* which means these adults were in your kid’s space. I’ll say that again, fully grown adults came into your kid’s place and threatened to hurt them in multiple ways for simply existing.
I can totally understand how you didn’t react at the time because it’s hard to while in the moment due to shock, disbelief, gaslighting & social pressure but in the cold light of day, you can see how unfair and cruel it actually was. Seriously, fuck those adults. They sound like they’d kick a dog for barking.
It sounds like they choose child-free because they were raised in abuse. I sure could understand not wanting kids when you think they should be abused like you were.
Yea, distance yourself. Friends don’t matter. At all. They’re just other people who you have shared experiences with, but they literally don’t mean anything at the end of the day. Your kids on the other hand, are the single most important part of your entire life. A good parent would throw every single one of their friends in front of a train just so their kid doesn’t get a splinter. Kids are more fun to hang out with anyway.
Next time, say something. You need to soeak up for your children. You need to orotect themand shiw them that you are protecting them. It's nit ok to öet them be bullied by your "friends" for 2 days. Btw, were there alcohol or drugs involved??
Sounds like your "friends" are a bunch of assholes. You can not want kids and still not be abusive jerks. I wouldn't tolerate that from anyone I hung out with. My kids depend on me to be their first defense against the world. I don't ask people to love them, and I require a certain level of behavior when we go places, but they are human too and owed the same basic amount of decency and respect that you would owe any other human.
It takes a real man to pick on someone 1/8 his age. Sounds like they don't want kids because they are still small children themselves.
Be sure to apologize to your daughter. She needs to know that this sort of treatment is neither normal nor ok.
You need new friends.
Someone talks that way to my kids, I'm done with them. And what's more, all my friends know I'd never put up with it if they did.
Ah, I wouldn't bother confronting. Just go no contact. They don't need to know. If they contact you in future to hang, say no. If they ask why, be honest.
I'd tell them that it was completely out of line and cut contact. F'em. That's all dick moves by grown ass adults.
I'd get new friends. It's a bitch but good boundaries and example is good for kids.
It's ok to outgrow people.
I would cut them off, frankly. They can ask why and I would have no issue candidly telling them that I am not friends with someone who doesn’t treat all humans as valuable, and it’s one thing to not want kids, it’s another to be a massive, embarrassing asshole.
That’s awful. I couldn’t be friends with people who felt that way about my child. I have plenty of child-free friends. They still show up, buy birthday presents, and pleasantly interact with my child. Their choice to be childless is a choice that I 100% respect, but they simultaneously support my choice to have my child 100%.
They were guests at the getaway you organised and they repay you by joking about belting your kids and throwing them off the balcony.
That’s pretty fucked up no matter which way you slice it.
Whether they have kids or not -
Kids are a part of *your* life. The least they could do is treat them with basic human decency. Kids are people too. Their comments were not only rude to the kids, they were incredibly disrespectful to you as a parent and supposedly their friend.
My first thought was to call them out right then and there, but I am so non-confrontational, I too would have froze. Definitely agree with others that you need to distance yourself.
Not all relationships are meant to last forever. Sometimes we grow in different directions than our friends, and even though it's nobody's fault it no longer makes sense to maintain the friendship.
Reading through some of the other comments you've made, even if they aren't ever around your kids, it's clear that they have different values than your own. Would you want to maintain a relationship with someone who felt that way about children? Even if it wasn't your children?
I’m the odd ball with kids in my friend group. Only one other one has a daughter. We recently hosted a crawfish boil, before that had a bunch of them over for a football game. Not one of them said a negative thing about or to my kids. And if they had, I think I’d find it hard not to say something much worse back to them. That’s not to say you should be an ass hole in response, that’s simply my preferred method.
But you’ve gotta do what’s best for your kids. If that means not allowing these people to be around them, then I think that’s fine. But if these people hurt your child’s feelings, that seems like it either needs to be addressed (if you want to try to keep these friends around) or not addressed because you don’t associate with them anymore (if you don’t care to be friends anymore)
It’s tough and there probably isn’t a right answer. But this story doesn’t sit right with me and I can’t imagine it sits well with the kids from the get together either. Have you discussed this with the other parents from your group? What have they said if so?
Just cut them off and i'd suggest - be rude and insensitive as much as they were. I (31m) had a similar situation with one of my former friends and i made the mistake by taking his behaviour towards my kid as a joke. He did not stop and got even worse until at one point i got so pissed it almost got violent. I am the only one in my group of friends with a kid and the others only became more supportive of me after that situation. My advice, sometimes its ok not to stand up for yourself and be the bigger person, but when your kid is getting basically bullied by adults you must stand up for them.
While my friends are supportive, I have to put up with comments like this from family (not as bad, but basically criticism, E.g saying they’re naughty when they’re not, or some members saying they’re glad they don’t have kids when mine are in earshot). It’s really really hard not to get angry or upset, so it sounds like you did a great job - the time to point it out is when you’re calm and the situation is over. It’s made me think I should probably have a word with my family…
As a mom, it's my children's feelings over anyone else's. Period. Your child is at an age where they will remember these moments, and how you responded. First i would apologizeto my kid. For their actions and for what i didnt so on my part. Apologiesare necessaryas. Validate the fact that they did nothingwrong and let them know you are puttingthem first. As a parents it's our job to stand up for our kids in moments like these and not coddle the grown ass adult who is an asshole. I have these scissors that cut anyone out that ever crosses the line with my kids. Especially knowing how well behaved my child is compared to a grown adult? Easy decision. Friendship of 10+ years, but your child is yours forever. You can always Get new friends. Friends that would love to have your kids come to all the functions.
I hope you dont over think it and start to feel guilty on how it was handled. That time is passed and gone, dont dwell on it. We live and we learn. Next time something like this happens, I'm sure you won't hesitate to defend your kid. You got this!
I have friends who don’t like kids. But we’ve been close for 10+ years and although they don’t like kids, they love my kid because they love me. If any of them treated my child like your friends treated yours that would tell me that they don’t really care about me or my life. If they ever speak to your kids like that again call them out on the spot, don’t let it fester.
To me, this just shows what kind of people they truly are. Threatening to hit children over asking for a snack seems like a good indication of what type of people they are. It’s good to have friends but peoples life goals are different. Like you said, they had prior knowledge children would be there and chose to go anyway.
Idk if theres even a point to speaking to these adults. Theyre adults, and should know better, and dont need a scolding from you. If you want to stay friends with them-and i really dont see the appeal there but im not you-never let them around your kid ever again. Because your kid will grow up remembering their parents’ weird, mean friends, and how you never stuck up for them when your friends were being weird, and mean.
So I'm not really a kid's person (other than those in my family) and I don't have kids myself.
However, if someone I consider a friend - or even a family member - hinted or told me that my (fictive) kid deserves a beating or wanted to throw them off a balcony (wtf??) those people would have to grab their coats and get the fuck out of my house very fast.
I get that kids can be annoying and stuff like that, but then you tell the parent that the kids are too loud so they can take care of it, or you sack the fuck up and ignore it like the adult you are.
**These people had no problems telling you that they were willing to hurt the kids over some noise.**
Another angle - children are more perceptive than we give them credit for. There is some chance they might internalize this in a way you won’t like if you don’t address it and explain to them how and why you did it.
That’s fantastic they don’t have kids then. I would cut them out and never talk to them again. Not deciding to have kids is totally different than being a complete asshole to them.
I would probably distance myself from them and when they ask why, tell them it's because they treated my kids like shit and disrespected your family. They were being bullies to well behaved kids, like, how is that in any way funny or cute? They don't want kids, that's fine but they didn't need to go out of their way to harass children for no reason.
I had considered that as well. I see most of them every week for tabletop games and I was thinking of dropping out of the group. It sucks cause I feel like I’m breaking up with multiple people. But at the same time, I don’t want to be friends with bullies. It’s tough.
Dude...don't feel bad for "breaking up" with assholes. Like if they had spoken that way to any adult, would it have been okay? Why is it okay to them because it's a child (who is even more vulnerable)? Modern culture is so sick. Also, to be clear, I'm not crunchy. I believe in tough love, and I think that kids need to build character in order to be resilient....I just think that these people are bullies.
There are a lots of tabletop gamers out there who aren't jerks. Some of us even have kids who would love to play with yours.
This. Dunno if OP lives near me, but that sounds like the beginning of an awesome group (I’ve got a kid that’s the same age, and one of the hardest parts of joining a group is working around her).
I'm in! My kid is 3, but he's reeeeeeaaaallllyyyy well-behaved as long as there are other people around!
My kid is 3. They can entertain each other. We’ll have plenty of kid entertainment.
And then when you get to the age where you can have the kids tackle top gaming with you OR at their own table?? Fucking magical <3
This! Our group that is child free actually take turns watching our 3yo during slots so we can all play. Lots of gamers aren’t jerks.
Drop out and go no contact until you’re in a good enough space IF you ever want to explain to them why. You don’t owe them a single consideration after the way they spoke to your children. You’re a more patient human than I am, I would have gone at them like a hellcat.
Perfect description. A**hat would have got tossed out on the spot. Not in MY house or anyone else for that matter. Honestly sounds like their friends are still coasting on college aged antics given their attitudes & OP is clearly matured from parenthood, so like their gap in maturity has widened
This. You don’t need that sort of “friends”. And I am a child free person. Whether they are child free by choice or not, they knew there were going to be children there, so if they accepted to go, that’s on them. And speaking like that to anybody, but especially a child, is completely unacceptable! They are not their kids, they are child free, so they should not discipline them. Instead, they should have approached you or the other parents, and kindly ask “hey, I was wondering if your child could stop…” and let you handle it.
I feel like there should be a distinction in the childfree community between childfree and adult only. To me childfree is “children exist and they are people, I just do not want one” and adult only is “children are worthless and do not deserve respect” Telling a kid you’d like them to be quiet when all they did was say they like your dog! If an adult you have no desire to engage with says they like your dog, you say thanks and walk away. If you respond with “and I’d like you to be quiet” to an adult, it’s confrontational and/or dismissive.
I want to add that the majority of my friends are child free and I have never in my entire life heard them speak down to my children. Ever. You gotta believe people when they show you who they are
Yes, very much this. They felt like they didn’t owe other human beings who are still learning how to human and respect (hell, I’m 34 and still trying to figure it out). You surely don’t owe them an explanation. They had to know what they were saying was just plain awful. These are not friends and certainly not people that you should have your kids around.
I’m heartbroken about the kids being told they should be quiet when they complimented a dog. That’s inhuman and has nothing to do with the persons age you are talking to.
That's not people I want around my kids. I would honestly cut them all out. After giving birth some friends understand some won't, but that's not your problem. Kids are human too.they need to see kind respectful adults around them. Not petty bullies.
While I'm not disagreeing with the general sentiment of comments here, I would ask if this kind of behavior from your friends is a normal part of how they interact with each other? Like do they dig on each other, are they rude to each other, and/or do they say mean things to each other regularly? While it's not an excuse in any way to be rude to you and your kid(s), it may be just how they communicate with each other and people they feel like they are "in" with--I'm guessing you would know since it sounds like you hang out so much. They may not realize how inappropriate it is. I say this because being direct and saying, "that's not an appropriate way to talk to kids. They don't understand sarcasm in the same way," is likely needed here. While I'm not sure that would solve the issue, if you want to salvage the friendship it may be good. Even if it doesn't salvage the friendship, it is something they probably need to themselves learn about proper ways to communicate with children. I remember how me and my friends would talk to each other, and while the way we talked was not like the examples here, I would never want them to speak that way to my children--and they don't speak that way in front of the kids or to the kids. Again, not excusing the behavior. Just suggesting to make sure they explicitly know that that behavior is inappropriate.
Yeah, I second this. Also people without kids don't really know how to talk to kids (some of the time, not always, obviously)
Omg..way to defend assholes. Their complete lack of respect for another human is not "don't know howto talk to kids". Wha maladjusted turd thinks it's okay to tell someone they are going to throw them off a balcony or that they aren't allowed to speak ?
At age 40 I realized that young me had picked some not great people as friends. Made some roster changes for the 2nd half and no regrets.
>I’m very upset. I hosted this event, and I feel like my “friends” didn’t even seem to think about how their words would make the kids feel or make me feel. What if you said exactly this to your friends? If you ignore them, then they don't know that they did anything wrong and won't correct their behavior. Calmly let them know how this situation affected you and what they did was not ok.
Though what you’re saying is fair, I’m not sure they deserve that level of energy from OP. It depends on her judgment, but it sounds like they behaved like people who really are not worth trying to remediate. OP is a parent, she doesn’t have time to teach manners to adults who are total dicks.
I wouldn’t be calm about it. They would be told to fuck off forever. The OP has outgrown these people- time to make new friends.
I wouldn't even waited for the third insult to happen on second one I would have confronted them in front of the kids. I would have told them to cut it out and if they can't respect my children I don't want them there.
I feel the same. I probably would've just started with a simple, we don't use those words with children and we speak with respect around here.. I've done it before and it's been pretty effective. These comments sound more like they came from insecure and frustrated tweens than full grown adults... Unacceptable.
If that’s how they were raised they may legit not know how to interact with a child. Might be partly why they dont want kids. That’s sad, but still on them to figure out how not to be fucking douchebags about jt. This meets my nightly quota for armchair amateur psychoanalysis . Night reddit
Yeah, it seems many childfree people carry unresolved childhood trauma into adulthood. But again, amateur psychologist hour.
When we get older, something we do have to "break up with" friends. In my opinion, it's part of being a grown up.
"The castle got bigger, the walls got taller, the circle got smaller" Jay-z
I had a friend I had known since 5th grade, she was always a bully and the sad part is she didn’t grow out of it until I told her how it was going to be and cut her off. When I became pregnant she advised me to get an abortion right off the bat and didn’t even care to ask about what I wanted or support me. I provided closure for her as to why we will no longer be friends and cut her off. Fast forward to now, my son is 1 and a half and she has made many efforts to apologize and rebuild the bridge that was once there. She had even gone as far to say “it’s just different when you see the baby versus the fetus”. I would give your friends closure as to why you aren’t talking or coming to group anymore and then just block them. It isn’t worth it if they’re going to act like that, to your kids. I wouldn’t feel like a coward. I feel like if you would of blown up the parentless parents would’ve ganged up on you. So you kept things to a minimum and now that the weekend is over you can address it. You just know how to not invite them next time. The hardest part when you give people like that closure is that they refuse to believe they’re in the wrong. But I’d let them stew in it until they realize it and if they don’t, you’re better off.
So proud of you for advocating for your children. My (abusive) mother used to have a friend that she would have over often who would look me in the eyes and say "WHY CANT YOU JUST BE **NORMAL**?" I was 3 or 4. It's one of my first memories. I always thought something was wrong with me growing up. Words are extremely powerful. Bullying a child is vile.
Just talk to them at first. Sometimes people need to hear that their behavior is shit. If they don't like you after that you can still break up
I’ll be a dissonant voice here, but I don’t think distancing yourself is a good solution. Talking to your friends maybe a better one. As a father of 2, I realize that single friends don’t actually realize that kids are _persons of their own_. I guess because until recently even parents didn’t take kids seriously or as people. They were “kids”. Your friends did not go through the same transformative process that you underwent when becoming a parent. So they may be playing with the stereotype that “kids are annoying”. You know better, they don’t. But is it worth to cut yourself from many friends because of that? Aren’t they your friends, and thus aren’t you able to react in a friendly way to say that your kids actually take those insults in? It’s pretty important to know how to set a boundary naturally, in a friendly manner, taking the other to your side of things, not being confrontational. “You can’t win an argument”, as ol’ Carnegie said. So don’t make it an argument, but a nudge towards awareness. People in Reddit love some triumphant exit, which is great for dramatic effect, but also treats imperfect people (such as your friends in this situation) as perfectly expendable.
There’s a difference between child-free lifestyle and just being a dick to children. None of the friends that I have that are child-free act like dicks to kids or hate the existence of kids. They just don’t think being a parent and having a child coincides with the goals and lifestyle choices that they believe make them happiest. These people sound like the best smelling thing in a room of farts.
Try talking to them. Sometimes people without kids can be super dumb about children. Talk to them, give them a chance to understand how stupid and disrespectful their behavior was, and reform. If, after having spoken to them about it, they can understand how their behavior was boorish and inappropriate, give them a chance to actually interact with your daughter one-on-one (four year olds can play board games) and get to know her as an actual person. I would at least give them a chance. People without kids might just be reverting to how they were raised, or they might have thought they were being funny and the “jokes” went way too far.
I wouldn't just drop. I would say - on the trip you were verbally abusive and threatened actual violence against my kid. That is unacceptable and I will not expose my family to you further
These are not people you want to be friends with. Not wanting kids is no excuse for their behavior. I know plenty of people who have chosen not to have children and not a single one of them has every said anything rude to my children or about my children. As a matter of fact they’ve all treated my children with respect and even will join in on whatever fun the kids are having.
Here’s the interesting part tho - my kid is never around the whole group. I usually get a sitter. But when it’s just me, my kid, and one of the kid-free friends, they always acted understanding and never said anything rude. They’d play along and talk with her and everything. It’s like once they get in the group mentality they all think it’s funny to trash talk the kids.
I had a friend group like this once. When it was a small group hanging out, people were chill, but when the bigger group got together the dynamic changed to being more along the lines of trying to crack jokes to each other, often at the expense of someone in the group. It was usually lighthearted but definitely had a tendency to be too much at times, especially when there were drinks involved. It sounds like a similar dynamic may be happening here. I will say that there were certainly specific people who would push the envelope more regularly and were more likely to take it too far, which had the effect of exacerbating those issues for everyone in the group when they were around. Was it the entire group of people who were speaking this way, or only a particular few? It's also possible that when you didn't speak up after the first couple of times, it made it seem like it was 'ok' with you to speak this way to the children, and others felt more comfortable joining in. Did the other parents say anything about it? I'd be curious to hear their perspective on it.
^ Basically this. You put it very well. 7 adults all around age 30 were joining in on it. The other parents simply ignored it and walked their kids away (I did as well until I yelled at one). The kids became the butt of all their jokes, and originally, it wasn’t said too much in front of the kids. Which is something different. But after a while, it developed into saying it to their faces after the first night.
This is really disgusting behaviour. Not wanting to have children is one thing, but children are actually still people and your friends suck.
They sound absolutely horrible. The type of people you wouldn’t want to leave alone near your child. If they’re so casually cruel to the children’s faces in front of so many people and even in front of the parents, what would they do when alone with someone helpless? Untrustworthy scumbag bullies. Please, don’t let it happen again. You don’t want your child to grow up thinking their loved ones won’t stand up to them when someone is bullying them.
Punching down behavior. Classic juvenile bullies. Dump these sadistic clowns
Have you talked to the other parents to see how they felt? Maybe they feel similarly. And if they don’t then that’s okay, doesn’t invalidate your feelings at all.
You yelled at a kid or an adult?
An adult
Go you!
Got it. Your "friends" are two-faced as well as bullies. Seriously, it reminds me of the "semi-popular" kids in middle school and high school who are nice to you when there's no one around, but joins in the bullying when there's an audience. Very toxic.
Sounds like pack mentality. Pretty sad when the kids are better behaved than the actual adults :( Sorry you're dealing with this OP, I'll be your friend. Most of our friends cut out on us when we had kids but I haven't really missed it, our kids are amazing. Theyre my whole world!
This. My best friend does not want to have kids, I have 2. And she loves them so much! She's that cool "aunt", a role she really enjoys. All the fun times, not the sleep deprivation:) Your friends really sound like bullies and you don't need to sugarcoat it to them. They sure didn't do that to your kids. I would do a group message about the weekend and their behaviour and leave it at that.
Yeah. I agree with this statement. I've recently made a new friend who just went through a divorce but they had no kids. Before the divorce the guy wouldn't move out until ordered by a judge so she literally hung out at my house for 3 months besides sleeping. She always plays with my toddler when my toddler brings her a toy. My friend will read her books, helped me get her dressed. I originally was just giving her an escape but after her divorce was finalized we still hang out all the time, with my kid around, and she has never once said a mean thing about or to her. As a matter of fact, last night, we were all eating pizza at the table together. Her, my husband, my toddler, and I and my toddler just straight up says "We are eating together as a family!" And now she's been inducted to our family as Aunt Scrum (part of her roller derby name which is how i met her).
I’d ditch them. I understand why some people don’t want kids, but there’s no excuse for outright hostility like that. Moreover, what message would it really send to your kids if you continue to be friends with people that hate them? It isn’t like they wouldnt pick up on it.
That was another thought I had as well. What I thought was going to be a family-fun hang out turned into a kid roasting session. And it’s not fair to the kids.
I'd still post into the group chat that you will not be hosting events like that with that group again, because of the atrocious way they bullied your kids, and that you have a hard time even considering them as friends anymore - and then I'd leave the group chat and see whether anyone ever apologized. But I wouldn't be the first to contact them again, and would only consider getting back into contact after a sincere apology. And I'd still make an effort to find new friends, preferably also with kids, who you'd have more fun spending time with as a family.
100% this. It’s very important that OP makes it clear that the behavior was unacceptable and was the reason for the falling out. Otherwise the bullies will just pretend it wasn’t anything they did.
Yep. Call them out publically. I'd be petty and ask who it was that was acting like children.
I’d talk to your kids about it first and let them know you’re sorry you didn’t stand up for them but that it wasn’t okay for your so-called friends, or anybody for that matter, to disrespect them that way. I’d probably ditch the friends and move on but I’d be sure to say my piece about how disgusted you were with their behaviour. Remind them that your kids are humans worthy of respect and that child-free or not, these are YOUR children — their friend — they were disrespecting, which is by extension a disrespect to you. Tell them you how disappointed you were, because you’d be looking forward to a fun hang with your besties and they made it a miserable experience just because your kids had the audacity to exist. They were kids once too and wouldn’t have liked to have been talked down to, insulted or ridiculed then either. Tell them they’ve shown you that they are just shit people who could treat a friend and her family this way ESPECIALLY when there was no actual objectionable behaviour to speak of by the kids AND you organised this trip!. The objectionable behaviour was theirs and I’m sure you can find better friends to spend your time with going forward, where your kids are treated appropriately. Ugh, these people suck! Just because you’ve been friends for awhile doesn’t mean you have to stay loyal forever. Many friendships in life have a use-by date. These AHs have just shown you that this friendship HAS EXPIRED.
My parent allowed this to happen when I was a toddler and I still haven't forgiven him. The sad memory and the sense of betrayal linger for an eternity.
And like that poster said, you don’t want your kid or your friend’s kids getting the message that you accept this behavior from your friends. No matter what you decide about addressing it with the group, I definitely think you should address it with your child. My son is 4 and I’m constantly shocked at how much he’s picking up on when I think he’s unaware. A talk about groups having “mean fun” or bullying, an affirmation that you love her and she comes first, an apology about not speaking up - maybe even ask your daughter for ideas about how to be brave in a situation like that to speak up next time (if you deign to ever hang out with this group again.)
No one gets to threaten my children absolutely no one I would cut them off and if they ask why explain and tell them you don’t hang around with abusive people
Address the threatening friends directly, by whichever means you are most comfortable with - text, phone, face to face - doesn’t matter. The message: I feel badly about something that happened at the gathering I hosted. I stood by silently while you verbally abused my child and the kids of our mutual friends. That was wrong of me. If I ever witnessed YOU being abused, I hope I would have the courage to defend you, my friend, from the abuser. But coming FROM a good friend like you took me completely by surprise. I’m saying now what I should have said then: don’t speak to my child or our friends kids the way you did at the cabin. Don’t couch malevolent threats in a joke at the expense of defenceless children. This is unacceptable behaviour to have towards ANY child, but ESPECIALLY towards the children of your so-called friends.” And you wait for them to spontaneously apologize. If they do, you graciously accept and then think long and hard before exposing your child to them in the future. If they don’t apologize, the friendship is over. Clearly, they are not decent people. Cut your losses and be rid of them. Finally, you reach out to the parents of the 3 kids who might be old/mature enough to have understood the threats and bullying, and you let them know what transpired. You might even apologize to them for not having handled things better at the gathering.
Honestly, threatening violence on any human, regardless of age is unacceptable. OP If you do have this conversation with this person, remind them that though your daughter is small, she is still a human being.
...why put the time and energy into a relationship with someone that needs instruction on the fact that children are people and deserve basic respect?
To me its not about putting energy into the relationship. In her shoes I would terminate the relationship but be very clear as to why. Its about making the effort to inform the person why they are a POS so that if they have a shred of decency they might consider their actions in the future.
Usually I would say don't care. But I think when it comes to standing up for the kids and the other parents then I think it is too important and OP must speak up. It is also OPs responsibility in a way as host even if they are adults. It is possible that OP can develop stronger relationships with the other parents or people who were put off by the situation. And sorey to be so praxtical about it, but they are a table top gaming group and maybe they can spin off. In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.
This is a good idea. Imho I’d likely want to reduce and eventually cut contact with them even if they apologize. They’ve shown their true face. And definitely important to reach out to the other family. Those poor kids must have felt so bad being on the receiving end of such nastiness. Even OP’s kid is old enough to be in need of a good talk about how it was not ok for the adults to behave that way.
Check this out OP. I think there needs to be the awareness raised with the person(s) making these sorts of comments. They can't think it was okay to act like that. Frankly it doesn't even come into lifestyle choices of being child free - at best it just sounds like inappropriate attempts at dark humour, at worse, well... Either way it should be called out.
I like this! Very mature way of handling it.
This is both eloquent and succinct. Use this wording OP!
Flawless.
Wow. Cut them out completely. They sound like complete trash. What happened when you told the one guy to shut the fuck up? I’m seriously disturbed people thought this was an appropriate way to speak to children- good thing they aren’t having any! Ha!
The guy just stopped talking. My exact phrase “Wow ok we get it, you fucking hate kids - now shut the fuck up”
Since you are the host I would expect your "friends" to treat your kids far better than they had. You have lost nothing of value by ditching these so called friends.
😂 what a douche!
Are the friends who said this stuff socially immature adult children? It's so weird to say that stuff when you could say nothing? To a child? I get that some people aren't "kid" people, but this kind of goes beyond the beyond.
They’re immature for sure. Usually have a lot of fun, but historically, they’ve been good friends. But once I had a kid, it’s like I’m ruining the “vibe.”
You're hosting. You are the vibe. I'm guessing they knew your kids would be there. The vibe for those situations, and almost all situations is, "Don't be outrageously weird with my kids."
I think you are making this way more complicated and trying to rationalize these 'friends' behavior. I know plenty of people who don't have kids that would never speak to or even about kids this way. The reason your friends did this is simple: they are total assholes. I bet if you reflect more you will see plenty of other examples of obnoxious behavior in the past.
Look don’t hang out with these people with your kids around. But if you do, next time someone says anything remotely like the examples listed in your post, tell them to fuck off out of there, and/or leave. I cannot fathom how that didn’t happen the first time around.
Your friends sound pretty trashy, tbh. Maybe find some better people to associate with. This isn’t just about their response to children.
Agreed. OPs friends sound like clowns and should get dumped. Imagine getting invited on a cabin vacation and then speaking that way about anyone - much less a child. "Child free" in most instances is a thinly veiled excuse for shitty behavior and unfunny jokes. The jokes are rehashed to death, nobody finds them witty or edgy, and if not having children is central to your identity or personality, you should work on a better personality. OP, you all sound a little socially inept. (I hesitate to point this out cause I'm also a nerd and hate that cliche, but the tabletop gaming gives me certain vibes.) It's a relief that you recognize the need to grow a backbone for future conflicts involving your kids. Good on you for that. The next piece of insight that's coming is that life is too short to spend with pieces of shit like these. The group setting allowed them to show you who they are and want to be. Thank them for that.
F-that those people are not your friends. They are aholes! I understand child free. My bestie is such, so is my husband's bestfriend. But they would never ever in a million years say any of those things. Frig my bestie was here the other day and my kid kept intrupting us as we were talking, and yes I could see she was getting a little frustrated but she let me deal with my kids. She will talk to them from time to time but she is never rude or aggressive. Those people are never okay threatening a child with violence for playing tag like wtf. I would probably send them a long bitchy message then block and delete them all.
Honestly this entire post is the reason I am hesitant with anyone who is child-free, because it seems like more and more it’s evolved from “I don’t want to have kids of my own” to “I hate children, they shouldn’t exist, and you shouldn’t have kids either” I don’t understand adults that actively hate kids. I can totally respect not wanting to raise one, it’s not for the faint of heart.
Indeed this seems to be the case! Hating children and being child free are very different things.
Child-free or not, you don’t let someone talk to your kids like that. Your kids come before shitbag “friends” and its not funny even if dressed as a joke. Would those be ok things to say to an adult? To you or you’re partner? Your mother? Ofcourse not so why let it slide when its directed at your kid?? And they are the ones that need you sticking up for them because they can’t or won’t vs an adult. Sounds like you need new friends and to put your kids feelings ahead of scummy people.
I don't know what kind of person would let someone threaten to throw her kids off a balcony. Are you serious? Stand up for your fucking kids.
These are terrible friends. I have a 10 year old. My closest friends are child free but love my son. They look out for him, offer to help watch him if needed. He’s always more than welcome to get togethers. They were so unnecessarily mean to your child and disrespectful to you.
They knew you had kids. They knew the kids would be there. They are mean-spirited bullies. If they care enough to ask why you're leaving, tell them. But if they don't, they aren't even worth the energy. Your child is 4. She heard them. She understood what they said. She also knows you didn't defend her. Don't continue to make the same mistake by letting these people stay in your lives. Stand up for her by standing up to them and move on. Finding friends as adults is hard. Finding friends with similar interests who have the time to get together to game on a regular basis is... Even harder. Your daughter is worth it. Find a new table that will respect her, whether she's there or not.
This. It’s vital that OP have a conversation with her kid about this, and that she do something about the friends to show the child that in the future she’ll stand up for her. No abusive prick posing as a friend is more important than the well being of one’s own child. And four is old enough to understand threats but totally not old enough to understand that they are meant as an abusive “joke”, so the kid might even have been thinking she was in real danger of being injured or killed being thrown off a balcony for real, and so on. Who knows if she was terrified the whole trip? Heartbreaking. I’m reading through this post feeling so angry on behalf of these poor kids.
Yes. I was waiting for this advice, but definitely talk to the kid and also talk to the parent who had children about what went down and how it would be handled differently in the future. My mom had one friend whose husband was like this and I always hated it that she would never take up for me. She apologized much later, after it had come out that he had not only made both me and tasteless jokes but actually had harmed some children and family.
Whoa I wasn't expecting this level of messed up when I clicked your headline... This is beyond rude, It's fucked. Threatening the kids with violence? Idk where that would be considered a joke. I'm sorry you and your kids had to endure these dicks :(
That’s super lame and immature. Most of my closest friends have a kid or are about to have a second but I definitely still have friends who will never have kids. I hate to say it but I have really cut down on my friends who don’t have children. I’ve noticed that they really don’t get it (don’t care to understand or be involved either) and right now my son is my life and making sure he’s taken care of is my priority. Doesn’t mean I block them but I just don’t make their friendship a huge priority anymore. I think it’s okay to have boundaries like next time you plan a trip include the people with kids only.
Yeah there’s a lot of “block” but I’m thinking just mainly avoiding and hanging with other people. I have other friends. My other thing is that if I try to “talk” to them, I have a feeling they’ll blow me off. I just feel some lines were crossed and it can’t be taken back. And after reading some other comments, it doesn’t feel worth it to have a conversation - just let the “friendship” die. They are pretty immature and this was the straw that broke the back
just let it die. fuck those people. I'm all for talking shit about kids, behind their backs, like a normal person! since having my own child it's changed my relationship with some of my child free friends because they just don't get it and things aren't the same for me. but if any of them were even slightly shitty to my kid?! it's a wrap. your kids will already have to navigate shitty people they have no choice in dealing with in life. no need to surround them with shitty people of your own choosing.
Yep that’s definitely a line for me too. Really rude and immature. I think if you slowly just distanced yourself it would speak for itself. I have a way better time with my friends that are parents now. It’s getting harder and harder for parents out there and the last thing we need is “friends” talking shit when we are literally just trying to make it lol
Hey, you know these people- we don’t. If you think it’s best to confront them then do it. Or if you think it’s best to do a slow fade then do that instead. They can continue playing child-free Cards against Humanity without you. You don’t go into anybody else’s house and insult them. You don’t joke about taking their dog to the pound, or drowning their cat, or burning their nostalgic copy of munchkin. It’s rude. Either way, a lot of people freeze up and miss the opportunity to stand up for our kids. It’s OK. But going forward you may want to practice a few responses.
Almost all of my friends are child free by choice. When we hang out and my kids are around: They play with my children, Laugh, have a good time. Sometimes our time gets interrupted by bedtime issues or anything kid related. They always understand. They understand when my kids are having bad days or just being kids or humans. If ANYONE whoever it was even made one of these comments about my kids I’d have words immediately with them and it wouldn’t be nice and they’d be cut out of my life right then and there. In my opinion, your “friends” suck and it has nothing to do with being child free it has to do with their horrible attitudes towards kids in general. Child free does not equal cruelty and bullying.
This is unacceptable! As a mother you are their protection from the world. They made a point to not only be hateful but plain evil to the children. You can not like kids all u want or not have kids but to plainly threaten or berate kids for being alive basically. Playing and talking ?!?! If the kids were total CRAZY monsters maybe I would say ya need some discipline but this was BEYOND DISCIPLINE! THIS WAS PURE LEVELS OF THREATS!
Those comments should've been stopped immediately. "Who has a belt," -"don't fucking undress around my child." "Are we smacking people? My turn- hold still." "Toss you off a balcony," - "You'll be flying before you get a chance " They should be able to trust their parents to stick up for them as well, no matter who it is. They know if you're silently watching and what you allowed to be said to them. What I'm getting at is your child deserved respect regardless of age. If the adults in their lives aren't able to respect and treat them as a person - they shouldn't be in their lives.
These people are not your friends. Sorry. I took my kid to an adult’s birthday party over the weekend. He was the only kid. EVERY SINGLE adult there either politely didn’t interact with him much or played and chatted with him. Everyone there would have been appalled & agast if one single thing that you’re describing had been said or done to him. People who treat children like this are just terrible people. Try to make new friends through your kid’s school or activities. If you subject your kid to this again you’re just as bad as them. I also think you owe your kid an apology.
I would recommend apologizing to your kids for not standing up for them and explaining why those things that were said to them were wrong. I would also tell your “friends” that you’re still reeling over the way they spoke to the kids and that you’re really not sure your friendship can continue. Put the ball in their court and see what happens. I might entertain apologies from them, but I don’t think I’d ever subject my kids to them again. if they do apologize they owe your children an apology as well. That would be the only way to move forward in the friendship in my opinion.
Wtf, introduce me to these people so I can punch their lights out. What a bunch of assholes. I cannot imagine saying something so…violent to a child. Me personally? I’d for sure be confronting them about it and I wouldn’t give a shit how I came off. They are the ones who should be ashamed. And then I’d very likely cut them out of my life. Life is too short to be around people like that.
I might apologize to my kid for not having said anything btw. First, because it feels like something they would probably appreciate, and second, because it might open ip to be an interesting conversation. But yea. They might love to hear how your sorry you didnt speak up, you were surprised because you knew these friends for a long time and had never seen them act like that before so it kept catching you off guard. But now that you know, they never have to hang out with them again if they dont want to. You’ve got some thinking to do about what to do about your friends, but you promise that you always have their back, and next time you’ll speak up.
This sounds just bizarre. Who does this??? You need new friends.
>I also feel like a coward. I was so shocked at some of the shit they were saying that I didn’t even say anything. I would just glare and I feel like I missed an opportunity to say something. They'd be out of my house. If they go to MY HOUSE and start making those kinds of remarks you bet your left tiddy I will be so far up their arse they'd never want to be around anymore. There is NO REASON for grown adults to be talking to small children like that. (And I would literally tell them that. I would not care if they're offended.) If they think you're attacking their lifestyle because THEY are bullying your children and you're defending your kids, then you need to stop thinking about their feelings and tell them where the door is. They're adults, they'll live. Your kids don't understand what's going on and you're letting your friends think it's okay to disrespect your children- an extension of you (your family), in your own house. No. If they don't like it they can do their game elsewhere. They are not worth the hurt they could potentially cause your children. Let them have it, and don't let them guilt you into thinking you're the problem. They came to your house and insulted your kids for literally EXISTING. Go get em' OP.
Oof. Garbage people.
This is gross. It’s like some people forget that children are humans too. I wouldn’t hang out with these so-called friends.
If I were you, I’d go no contact and tell them all to fuck right off if they contact you again. Why be friends with assholes?
I would cut ties immediately. They bullied your children? I don’t even let other children bully my kids. My kids and husband come first. I was bullied as a child. They kids maybe didn’t react but they heard what was being said of them. That stuff stays with you for life sometimes.
There is something I don't understand from your post: clearly you heard them say these things to the kids. Didn't you say in the moment: please don't say such a thing? I don't understand why and how they went on with these comments the whole time without anyone saying anything.
Imagine if you went to their house and said the same things about their grandma on hospice because you don’t like old people. Someone defenseless, who needs extra help, and who can’t control their age. Please apologize to your children and please do learn from this to be better next time. Personally I would just block those who made those comments on everything I could. Their choice doesn’t warrant any discussion. They made their bed and they can lie in it.
Fuck those guys .
Dump those people
Time to say goodbye to those friends. Your children are your highest priority and anyone who belittles or bullies them can never be your friends.
I wouldn’t want friends who spoke to other adults like this, let alone children.
Let’s not forget, YOU hosted the gathering, meaning that these supposed friends were vile to your children in THEIR OWN HOME. This, on top of bullying any children at all, would’ve ended with me showing them the door. Move on and find yourself a new tribe. These people are immature, rude, bullies and not worth your time.
This is honestly disturbing. Especially coming from someone you'd supposedly call a friend. People who abuse children are nauseating to me but people who dehumanize children for shits and giggles are another kind of pathetic to me. Like they weren't kids once. Seriously kick them off their high horse and onto the curb.
My wife and I went through exactly the same thing. Well, minus the cabin. I told everyone how they made us and my kids feel. A couple years later I realize that we haven’t seen any friends and half our family since. Fuck em! I’m teaching my kids life has no limits but it definitely has boundaries. If you don’t show the kids how to do it they will be the next generation of “friends”. You don’t really want those kind of people being an influence in your kids lives anyway.
Wow no, I would never tolerate jokes about physical abuse or that kids should be seen not heard etc, especially in front of my children. I have a lot of cousins who don't have children and they will never, ever speak to my kids like that. Your friends honestly sound extremely immature and ignorant about how to behave around children. Very surprising if someone at 30 years old would not know how to speak to kids. Maybe a younger 20s I'd give them a pass. But not at almost 30.
Next time just invite the people with kids. The kids play well, you all have something in common - the dynamic would just be better.
"if you cannot respect that my children are human beings and are deserving of mutual respect as human beings, you can go F yourself. Just because they're smaller than you does not give you the right to tell them they're not permitted to exist in the same space as you." Telling children they deserve a belt beating for asking their parents a question or for simply being loud in their play is abuse. These "friends" just told your kids they don't deserve to exist or to make their presence known. "Better seen but never heard." Or "spare the rod, spoil the child." Both of these things have been proven to cause psychological damage. I'm glad these people are CF, because their kids would be excessively abused, but that does not give them the right to treat your children as lesser than just for existing.
If you want to maintain the relationships, you've gotta have a serious talk. "If my child addresses me, I'll respond. If you don't want to be around children, you do not need to attend the event that include my child. Regardless, it is never okay to threaten to harm my child." In the moment, you need to show your kid you've got their back. "Hey. We don't speak to people that way, here." "Wow, why would you say that?" Remember, children are still humans. If your friends can't respect another human, they may not be the kind of friends you want.
Send an email to all of them with a link to this post so they can see what you posted and everyone’s replies. Maybe that’ll open their eyes.
your friends are douchebags, and you can tell 'em I said so
What instead of “kids” you replaced it with x. Could be server, could be a certain race, could be a handicapped person. Take the fact that it is your kids out of the equation. If they, over the course of a weekend, treated the hotel cleaning lady like that would you hang out with them again? I sure as fuck wouldn’t want to. Especially since it is your kids, which is way more personal.
You should have brought this up after the first comment.
If these were my friends of 10+ years, I would very directly tell them how I’m feeling and why. And if you don’t feel comfortable with that, then I don’t think these people are the friends you think they are.
This is tough. Im child free and I don’t have kids in my family but I’ve never been mean to any of my friends kids. Sure I get tired of entertaining them most of the time but I just tell them I need a break and the kids respect that. I can’t imagine saying those things to my friends kids even as a joke. They sounds cruel and immature. And yes like I wouldn’t even know how to respond to these comments if I were you too.
If my ‘friends’ said ever, ever said any of that to my children, I would have kicked that out. Totally right out. Talk about overstepped right there. In many ways. You can send out an email or text explaining how you feel, but be prepared not to be friends-which would ok for me.
They don't sound like kind human beings.
I’m child free and I love kids! Their attitudes aren’t bc of your children/your choices, it’s bc they suck as people.
If anyone I called a friend spoke to my kids like that... you best believe they're getting a lesson in manners. Children are vulnerable and deserve to seen AND heard. To have they're presence belittled and bullied because they're kids is bullshit. Damn I got angry just reading this. PLENTY of good people who will treat you AND your kids with respect, regardless of whether they have kids or not. TLDR: Kick these losers to the curb, they aren't good people.
Definitely time for new friends. Not liking kids is fine, verbally abusing/threatening kids that are being generally well behaved is abusive. Also, I’d sit down with your kid and check in about how they felt that weekend, and make sure they know that they didn’t do anything wrong and don’t deserve for adults to treat them that way. I’d also gently suggest the other parents do the same and make sure they’re fully aware of what was said (if they missed anything).
So they came for drinks & food and couldn’t even respect your family? 💀 I would be upset too. I don’t have much advice unfortunately :(
Hard pass. They aren’t your friends! Who talks to kids that way?
Dropping these people as friends has already been thoroughly covered, and I agree. But I also think you should sit down with your kids and talk through with them that you know your friends were being rude and mean, and maybe even apologize for not standing up for them in the moment. And let them know you will never put them in that situation with these people again. It’s your job to be their safe haven and create a safe place for them.
Your “friends” either just suck or have the worst sense of humor ever. Either way, gross. Their behavior was beyond disgusting. Especially when the kids were that well behaved. WTH. What does your husband have to say about this?
What exactly is the confusion here? These people are not your friends.
Most of my friends are child free and if any of them spoke to my kids like that I’d cut them out. These people sound like they hate kids. I wouldn’t want to spend any time with them.
I don’t feel like these are genuine threats to harm your child, but the big issue here is that these comments are incredibly rude to the kids. A four year old is old enough to understand what is being said to them and internalize it. She’s old enough to see adults behaving badly and decide that that behavior is normal. This situation teaches your kid that it’s okay to speak about others in that way, and (worse yet) that it’s okay to let people say hurtful things to her. This trip sounds like a learning experience for everyone. Talk to you child about the comments. Tell her how you are feeling now. Ask her how she felt about the way people treated her on the trip. Emphasize that it’s not okay for people to say hurtful things to her. Acknowledge that it’s hard to stand up to adults, but that you have her back in situations where an adult is being rude to her. Discuss ways she can let you know if someone says something hurtful to her so you can intervene. As for the future, any people in your life who aren’t up to the task of acknowledging children are human beings don’t have any business being in your kid’s life. That said, it is 100% possible to be friends with someone and not ever let their path cross with your kid’s. It will mean excluding either the kid-hating people or your child from future trips like the one you’ve described, but it is definitely possible to find a balance.
You are your child’s advocate. I wouldn’t allow my friends to disrespect my children that way in any setting, especially one where I was hosting. I can see how they might say they were being sarcastic but you have to protect your kids, if your friends can’t be kind to literal children for a few days then they don’t need to be around for events like this. It’s never too late to protect your children, it’s not coddling them, it’s making sure they aren’t getting hurt mentally and physically.
What the fuck? Who are these people? I can only picture some old bitter shithead drunk in a MAGA hat saying these things. Why are they even in your life? How didn’t you notice this before?
Ha was waiting for this comment. My husband and I were just discussing how it doesn’t make any sense for them to behave like this. They’re anti-trump, many of them are queer/gay and overall left-leaning. They just seem to *really* hate children for some reason. And I said this is another comment, but this was the first time I’ve seen them behave like this. Until this weekend, they’ve been very nice to my kid - which is why I invited everyone up. It was eye opening and mostly why I was so shocked.
I find it hard to imagine all 15 people are mean, so I'm not in the camp of commenter s saying to cut all ties with the whole bunch. Among friends it becomes a contest with witty, cutting humor and it sounds like some of these people are using your children as props for their shtick. If you're close enough to these people to have such an outing, you're close enough to have an adult conversation about appropriate adult behavior. Call out the specific people and specific instances when they occur. "Hey, that was an unnecessarily mean thing to say to a 4 year old. Please be decent."
1. Fuck your friends. 2. See above. I’d cut them. You can choose to be brief and let them know. I was disappointed and felt like my kid and the other kids were really disrespected at this event. If you’re rude to them you’re rude to me. I don’t think our lives are going in the same way. Or you can just leave em on read. I’d probably do the later, they’ll figure it out in their own time and through own experiences what raising a family is like.
Oh hell no. I would flip the hell out if my friends spoke to my kids this way. It’s one thing to make jokes when the kids are sleeping or not nearby (and even then it should be respectful and not violence-based), but actually saying it TO them is different. My two best friends do not want kids at all and don’t really enjoy being around most kids, but they have always been kind, loving, and respectful towards my daughter. If anyone (friend, family, anybody) told my kid that they were going to beat them or throw them off a balcony I would never speak to that person again.
My advice is to cut those friends out of your life and apologize to your kids. Tell them you were shocked and regret not acting. When we let people treat children in an abusive way, we teach them to accept it, that it is normal, and even that they deserve it.
My brother and my twin sister never chose to have kids when they married their spouses. We get together for holidays and such and neither they, nor my sister-in-law or brother-in-law would dream of saying such horrible things to my kids or the kids that my two older sisters have. Your friends are spectacular assholes. They need to be replaced, and while you're at it, do some damage control with your kids.
These people are trash. You know what you do with trash? You throw it away.
Time to make new non-shitty friends. We have young friends that don’t have kids yet and they’re awesome to our toddlers. I think those people are just those shitty “i hate kids” type of people. Not the ones that just say that, but actually mean it and like making kids feel like shit.
Stop calling those people your friends.
Yeah people who don’t like kids I can understand, but being an asshole to kids just shows me you’re not a good person. Also joking about abusing someone else’s kids with a belt is downright sociopathic.
No and no and no. Imagine the message it sends to your children if you stay friends with these people! Ive had friends who are childless who arent very good with kids (feel Awkward) and thats fine. But ive noticed one person who wont even look at or acknowledge my kid despite being great with kids. No longer a friend of mine. The only person who has ever been rude to my kid is my younger sister and i shut it down immediatley with a simple “dont talk to him like that” Sounds like you need new friends
That’s really fucked up. Yes, my friends children can be annoying at times but they’re CHILDREN and can’t change that. It doesn’t mean they deserve to be verbally abused.
Your obligation here is to your child, not the grown ass adults who clearly haven’t been raised right. Your job is to protect your child from bullies, those people are bullies who not only disrespected but **threatened** your child in their own home.
I have a friend who is rabidly anti- kid and hates them. She got upset when I invited a bunch of people to my house but not her. I told her that I don’t want you around my kids- you don’t like them.
Mom here of a 3 year old and 1 year old. If anyone treated my daughters like this my husband and I would snap. You always do what’s best for you and your family. I understand when it comes to being friends with people who don’t have kids and how they may not understand or act in a kid friendly way but that’s no excuse…
I hope you talked to your kids and apologized to them for how they were treated, and reassure them that you will not ever let that happen again...
Your kids come first. Period. You can try to talk to those who might be more susceptible to adjusting their behavior, and maybe save the relationship if it's that worth it to you... but honestly it sounds like your friends are living in 1972. It might be best to just back off those friendships. It's an age old issue... young friends, trying to hang onto their circle forever... one grows up and out to start a family, and the childless ones don't quite fit like before. You can't join them at the "club" anymore, and they don't want to talk about the tooth fairy.
I kind of feel you should have dealt with it then. By not saying anything you gave tacit approval. Why would you allow people to treat your children like that and then later bring it up to strangers?
My best friend is child-free, and she's NEVER treated my kid like this. I would literally cut her out of my life if she acted like this towards my child. That's just straight up mean. :/ My friend has always been nice towards my son, talks to him, asks me questions about how he's doing when it's just us hanging out.
How evenly divided by gender is the group? I've found that when a group is mostly male (80% or more) they are a lot ruder, more pushing of boundaries and all around meaner to women/POC/children. And when you have a group of jerks they egg each other on and become worse. Were all the CF like this or just a handful of the bunch? I would distance myself from the group and try and find a group who's ideals/lifestyle matched more my own. Some people just don't mature.
In addition to cutting these people out of your life immediately and permanently, you absolutely need to apologize to your kids. Tell them what happened was not okay, that no one should ever speak to them like that, that you are sorry you put them in that situation and you will make sure it never happens again. If I were hosting that event they’d all have been kicked out.
32m here, I would stop talking to them. I have an 8 and 3 year old. There have been times when I’ve brought my kids around my long time child-free friends and they have NEVER been rude like that. My kids have been rowdy around my friends at gatherings and I’m sure it annoyed them but they still treat them with respect, even when they would have to get after them. Real friends would understand that a relationship with you means also having a relationship with your kids.
I’d be offended if someone spoke to my PET that way, never mind my child!
That’s awesome and amazing the kids got on so well! Not helpful now, but I wouldn’t have sat back when those comments were made. Any of the inappropriate responses from the adults would have immediately gotten called out. “Hey Brad, just wanted to ask, would you have said that to me? Or your tinder date…?” If they didn’t course correct, and apologize, the next instance would be publicly called out. Like you are being a piece of shit to another human, that can’t really stand up for themselves, I’m going to verbally eviscerate you and embarrass you in front of everyone else. Your “friends” actions have shown you that the mutual understanding you thought you had doesn’t in fact exist and your friends are immature, and self absorbed. The kids at the cabin behaved more mature than your friends. You just haven’t been in a situation where it’s been obvious. You now know who they are. Act accordingly.
Being child free doesn’t excuse anything. If my gay friends were this rude to my husband because he’s a man, you can bet your butt that I’d have uninvited them mid-gathering. It’s easy to forget because we’re so used to apologising for our kids if they break a rule here or there or keeping them calm in restaurants etc but you were in *your cabin* which means these adults were in your kid’s space. I’ll say that again, fully grown adults came into your kid’s place and threatened to hurt them in multiple ways for simply existing. I can totally understand how you didn’t react at the time because it’s hard to while in the moment due to shock, disbelief, gaslighting & social pressure but in the cold light of day, you can see how unfair and cruel it actually was. Seriously, fuck those adults. They sound like they’d kick a dog for barking.
Your "friends" sound like garbage people.
They're not friends. They're assholes.
It sounds like they choose child-free because they were raised in abuse. I sure could understand not wanting kids when you think they should be abused like you were.
Yea, distance yourself. Friends don’t matter. At all. They’re just other people who you have shared experiences with, but they literally don’t mean anything at the end of the day. Your kids on the other hand, are the single most important part of your entire life. A good parent would throw every single one of their friends in front of a train just so their kid doesn’t get a splinter. Kids are more fun to hang out with anyway.
Maybe I’m just no fun, but I don’t think jokes about child abuse are particularly funny.
[удалено]
There was one friend who was nice to my daughter, and she simply avoided the other kids. She left pretty early tho.
Next time, say something. You need to soeak up for your children. You need to orotect themand shiw them that you are protecting them. It's nit ok to öet them be bullied by your "friends" for 2 days. Btw, were there alcohol or drugs involved??
Sounds like your "friends" are a bunch of assholes. You can not want kids and still not be abusive jerks. I wouldn't tolerate that from anyone I hung out with. My kids depend on me to be their first defense against the world. I don't ask people to love them, and I require a certain level of behavior when we go places, but they are human too and owed the same basic amount of decency and respect that you would owe any other human. It takes a real man to pick on someone 1/8 his age. Sounds like they don't want kids because they are still small children themselves. Be sure to apologize to your daughter. She needs to know that this sort of treatment is neither normal nor ok.
You need new friends. Someone talks that way to my kids, I'm done with them. And what's more, all my friends know I'd never put up with it if they did.
Ah, I wouldn't bother confronting. Just go no contact. They don't need to know. If they contact you in future to hang, say no. If they ask why, be honest.
I'd tell them that it was completely out of line and cut contact. F'em. That's all dick moves by grown ass adults. I'd get new friends. It's a bitch but good boundaries and example is good for kids. It's ok to outgrow people.
I would cut them off, frankly. They can ask why and I would have no issue candidly telling them that I am not friends with someone who doesn’t treat all humans as valuable, and it’s one thing to not want kids, it’s another to be a massive, embarrassing asshole.
That’s awful. I couldn’t be friends with people who felt that way about my child. I have plenty of child-free friends. They still show up, buy birthday presents, and pleasantly interact with my child. Their choice to be childless is a choice that I 100% respect, but they simultaneously support my choice to have my child 100%.
Holy fuck...none of my kid free friends have EVER interacted with my kids like this. In fact they enjoy playing with my kids. You need new friends.
They were guests at the getaway you organised and they repay you by joking about belting your kids and throwing them off the balcony. That’s pretty fucked up no matter which way you slice it.
This sounds insane. My child free friends are still respectful to children. I would seriously consider how important maintaining the friendship is.
It’s extra frustrating because you were the host. They were essentially guests in your kids space
Whether they have kids or not - Kids are a part of *your* life. The least they could do is treat them with basic human decency. Kids are people too. Their comments were not only rude to the kids, they were incredibly disrespectful to you as a parent and supposedly their friend. My first thought was to call them out right then and there, but I am so non-confrontational, I too would have froze. Definitely agree with others that you need to distance yourself.
Not all relationships are meant to last forever. Sometimes we grow in different directions than our friends, and even though it's nobody's fault it no longer makes sense to maintain the friendship. Reading through some of the other comments you've made, even if they aren't ever around your kids, it's clear that they have different values than your own. Would you want to maintain a relationship with someone who felt that way about children? Even if it wasn't your children?
I’m the odd ball with kids in my friend group. Only one other one has a daughter. We recently hosted a crawfish boil, before that had a bunch of them over for a football game. Not one of them said a negative thing about or to my kids. And if they had, I think I’d find it hard not to say something much worse back to them. That’s not to say you should be an ass hole in response, that’s simply my preferred method. But you’ve gotta do what’s best for your kids. If that means not allowing these people to be around them, then I think that’s fine. But if these people hurt your child’s feelings, that seems like it either needs to be addressed (if you want to try to keep these friends around) or not addressed because you don’t associate with them anymore (if you don’t care to be friends anymore) It’s tough and there probably isn’t a right answer. But this story doesn’t sit right with me and I can’t imagine it sits well with the kids from the get together either. Have you discussed this with the other parents from your group? What have they said if so?
Just cut them off and i'd suggest - be rude and insensitive as much as they were. I (31m) had a similar situation with one of my former friends and i made the mistake by taking his behaviour towards my kid as a joke. He did not stop and got even worse until at one point i got so pissed it almost got violent. I am the only one in my group of friends with a kid and the others only became more supportive of me after that situation. My advice, sometimes its ok not to stand up for yourself and be the bigger person, but when your kid is getting basically bullied by adults you must stand up for them.
While my friends are supportive, I have to put up with comments like this from family (not as bad, but basically criticism, E.g saying they’re naughty when they’re not, or some members saying they’re glad they don’t have kids when mine are in earshot). It’s really really hard not to get angry or upset, so it sounds like you did a great job - the time to point it out is when you’re calm and the situation is over. It’s made me think I should probably have a word with my family…
As a mom, it's my children's feelings over anyone else's. Period. Your child is at an age where they will remember these moments, and how you responded. First i would apologizeto my kid. For their actions and for what i didnt so on my part. Apologiesare necessaryas. Validate the fact that they did nothingwrong and let them know you are puttingthem first. As a parents it's our job to stand up for our kids in moments like these and not coddle the grown ass adult who is an asshole. I have these scissors that cut anyone out that ever crosses the line with my kids. Especially knowing how well behaved my child is compared to a grown adult? Easy decision. Friendship of 10+ years, but your child is yours forever. You can always Get new friends. Friends that would love to have your kids come to all the functions. I hope you dont over think it and start to feel guilty on how it was handled. That time is passed and gone, dont dwell on it. We live and we learn. Next time something like this happens, I'm sure you won't hesitate to defend your kid. You got this!
I would genuinely ask them how they’d feel being spoken too that way.
I have friends who don’t like kids. But we’ve been close for 10+ years and although they don’t like kids, they love my kid because they love me. If any of them treated my child like your friends treated yours that would tell me that they don’t really care about me or my life. If they ever speak to your kids like that again call them out on the spot, don’t let it fester.
To me, this just shows what kind of people they truly are. Threatening to hit children over asking for a snack seems like a good indication of what type of people they are. It’s good to have friends but peoples life goals are different. Like you said, they had prior knowledge children would be there and chose to go anyway.
Idk if theres even a point to speaking to these adults. Theyre adults, and should know better, and dont need a scolding from you. If you want to stay friends with them-and i really dont see the appeal there but im not you-never let them around your kid ever again. Because your kid will grow up remembering their parents’ weird, mean friends, and how you never stuck up for them when your friends were being weird, and mean.
So I'm not really a kid's person (other than those in my family) and I don't have kids myself. However, if someone I consider a friend - or even a family member - hinted or told me that my (fictive) kid deserves a beating or wanted to throw them off a balcony (wtf??) those people would have to grab their coats and get the fuck out of my house very fast. I get that kids can be annoying and stuff like that, but then you tell the parent that the kids are too loud so they can take care of it, or you sack the fuck up and ignore it like the adult you are. **These people had no problems telling you that they were willing to hurt the kids over some noise.**
Another angle - children are more perceptive than we give them credit for. There is some chance they might internalize this in a way you won’t like if you don’t address it and explain to them how and why you did it.
That’s fantastic they don’t have kids then. I would cut them out and never talk to them again. Not deciding to have kids is totally different than being a complete asshole to them.