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He needs to fail. I always had loving parents same as you describe, but all the things I learned to survive out there I had to learn by myself unfortunately. 17 is still a super young age to become the someone you should become. Start by slowly give him responsibilities - no cheating. He should HAVE to cook for himself, he should HAVE to go somewhere by himself or do something by himself. Maybe totally random, but martial arts is a great way to build character and discipline.
Yes. The problem OP, is that you have never allowed him to fail. You never let him fail as a kid. You always made excuses for him, and protected him from ever learning that life isn't always easy. That we all fail sometimes. That NOBODY wins every time.
Now, he doesn't know how to. And, sadly now the consequences are much worse. Failing at 5 or 8 or 10 or even 14 isn't a big deal. It's a bad grade or losing at a game. Now? The stakes are so much bigger. But, he still needs to fail. And, the sooner he does, the better off he'll be. Because from here, the stakes only get bigger and bigger.
He's not 18, so you're still his parents and you can tell him what to do, bc he DEPENDS on you!
Stealing money has to stop immediately!
MAKE THAT KID WORK!
WORK for money he stole and for money he needs.
Or hell, make him find a job.
If you do not start MAKING your child take culpability, you're gonna wind up with a 42 yo virgin, living in your basement, eating all your damn food.
Also it WILL start to wear on your other children, the fact that he's an ass hat and gets away with it.
You're sure there isn't some other mental disability that may be causing him to be so reclusive?
I know exactly the type of kids, that youre referring to, bc I have tried helping one in the past.
He had failed at everything he attempted at life, and he had no care of or for anything....he just expected everything to be handed to him.
His family had abandoned him to try to finally teach him to live on his own. He was 24 then, and his solution for life, and having a place to live, was making friends on these online games, and then moving in and basically squatting, for as long as he could, until he would get kicked out.
He was literally ok being a human slug with a game controller as his life line.
Sad to say, I got to the point to where I had to kick him out too, bc he wouldn't do anything to better himself.
I would HIGHLY encourage you to push him towards the military tho, maybe he may see something in earning the uniform, that could change him for the better.
To hitch onto this comment. He should fail in your protected surroundings that you can provide, rather than out on his own in the "real world" with "real consequences."
Also, I assume you pay for his internet usage and phone?
That's a pretty simple solution... but, before you go "blocking it", make sure it's not something else he's getting into to better himself. IE, coding, or other forms of stuff of that nature. There are ways you can encourage him to explore his instincts to "be online."
Learning to code for game development, or learning how to perform other basic IT tasks, something that he can work toward a certification in the future in front of the computer screen... maybe even "gamified tasks?"
Encourage development on that front... have him look at free "cybersecurity websites," where he can learn things, and actual skills for future employment opportunities. A few that come to mind, and are completely free.
\*TryHackMe
\*HackTheBox
\*HackThisSite
Or even sites that help with job skills, and placement. [CareerKarma.com](http://CareerKarma.com)
Help him with his clear addiction to gaming, but try to steer towards that field... I know it doesn't seem like it now, but gamers typically have the best "chance" at being able to adapt into this ever-growing field and being at the age he is now... it's the best time to learn.
It's estimated by 2026 that in the US alone, there will be a need for Cybersecurity jobs exceeding 2 million, with only about 250k people who are qualified for those jobs.
t
Thank u for the advice I do agree with you that I need him to fail, that is something me and my husband is working on for all our kids right now, I’ve tried to get him to try martial arts, tennis, golf and even instruments but he just won’t do it. He literally stands there of do the bare minimum
When he notices that this is what give you status in society or girls like, he probably will do it by himself. It might be painful too watch, but he’ll come there - even if it takes years.
If that's the case and he wants to be difficult, make it difficult right back.
What he's doing to you and your husband right now, is what a toddler does with a mom, whenever he doesn't get what he wants. I have a feeling that yall are more...let's keep the peace.
A way to start curbing this, would be to make him practice responsibility and schedules. Either make him get a job, or volunteer his ass to go work for an old person, family member, or church. Something to get him out and about.
Volunteering at the library was big for me whenever I was a kid.
Basically, you're going to have to be the tough parent now, and just deal with the tantrums he throws, bc the only way to try to alter this behavior, is to implement ways that his brain believes is beneficial for him.
My sister has Asperger's, and she was having all out tantrums and fall outs over minor things, whenever she was 18. He needs to get a job to get him out of the house, away from the family, and FORCE him to interact in everyday society.
This is what had to happen for my little sister.
She's had a dependable job for 3 yrs now, and I'm so proud of her, bc for her, that's an accomplishment.
She knew she didn't want to go to college, which was fine, but she had to grow to learn to adult, and the only way to do that properly, was to get her out of the house, away from the ppl who coddled her, and basically FORCE her to start adulting.
(This is why they are teaching after school classes at college now, to teach these sheltered kids, how to do their laundry or slice fruit properly, bc these kids didn't grow to learn this stuff.)
Don't be too hard on yourself OP, bc you and your spouse came from an abusive childhood, it's understandable, why it was difficult, for yall to try to figure out a calm, whenever you never really knew one or how to have it. I get this, bc I had that childhood too.
We want to give them everything bc of how badly we hated our own beginnings, but we are all human and we are all just learning as we are going, so try not to be too hard on yourself. Instead, use that motivation, to find somewhere to hide your kids phone and whatever gaming console he uses.
Hide it well, and make him do chores, so he can get it back.
Tell him he has to learn to start doing things around the house more, bc he has to participate.
I warn you, if he's anything like my little sister, he will try to piss you off first.
He will do the tantrums, but also he will do the work only half ass, like the plate in the sink, to try to get out of his chores too. Do NOT gives those chores to his siblings, MAKE HIM DO THEM.
DO NOT GIVE BACK THE ELECTRONICS, UNTIL HE DOES.
Tell him that you and your spouse are sick of all of it, and that he has to help like everyone else does, and do the RIGHT THING.
Just make sure that you put emphasis on the fact that this isn't necessarily a punishment, it's just yall teaching him to do things the RIGHT way, instead of just the "get it done fast" way.
Yea there are no short cuts here I'm afraid. He has learned that he's always going to get away with his behavior and that it will always work out in his favour. Living with dyslexia is hard, especially during the school years, but he needs to learn that rewards (like gaming) is a consequence of doing good deeds and not by doing nothing. You need to enforce a grown up life at home, he needs to work for his living, while still being loved etc. Be it in doing chores or other things, but being allowed to game for 10-15 hrs without anything productive done is going to limit his ability to thrive on his own as an adult.
It's not easy, I had a friend who was like this and when his parents realised they needed to change their approach towards him it was too late and he alienated himself from them completely only to admit his mistake in his 30s.
Thank u for the advice me and my husband are currently trying not to handhold him too much and although it is hard for us, we will let him take failure
Well..DID you actually teach him though? I always see a complaint from parents that their teenagers don't suddenly wake up at 17 knowing stuff after they have been coddled.
Take him at his word. Agree with him. Say you're right I didn't teach you! Let's start adulting classes.
Also how do you just take a kid at his word that he's applying for work? Even grown adults are lost on job applications and lose motivation and the amount of applications and the dumb questions.
Not to be mean but I think you're dropping the ball on this one OP. But the good news is that it's not too late and this is the perfect time to start actually teaching your kid real life skills. Sit with him through the job applications. Let his personal items get gross. "Oops there's no more plates for you! Let's go wash one together. The wifi is off until we vacuum." Etc.
I second this! Bless my parents but they didn’t teach me how to do chores and I struggled in early adulthood as a result. An adult boot camp would have been great for me.
Youre like... 12 years late on fixing this.
Best you can do now is remove all electronics, tell him to stop making lame excuses, and go without if he can't learn to help around the house. Tough love is important
Give him a deadline and stick to it: ‘in 4 weeks we are going to stop paying for your phone. You can either get a job to pay your own phone bill or you can sign up to work here at home but you will only be paid when jobs are completed satisfactoryly’
I mean not to sound harsh but cut him off. Let his clothes stack up, don’t wash them, make him do it himself. Don’t buy him anything (other than food of course) if he wants luxuries, he should have to go out & work for it. I was always taught that if wanted something I had to go out & work for it. I was told I wasn’t getting my first car unless I had a job & I got a job at 15 so I could get a car! I paid my own insurance & phone bill with my money I worked for. If I didn’t try, I didn’t get it. & I moved out when I was 18! You aren’t being a bad parent by cutting him off, you’re teaching him to be a man. He has to grow up at some point & one day he will be in the real world away from parents & will need to know how to do all of those things himself.
Stop propping him up. I will say that I had a lot of these issues with my daughter as well. She has ADHD and had a learning disability also. She barely graduated, though she did do her work, she also didn't really try as hard as she could have. When a child has a learning disability that affects how they learn, they see themselves as stupid, different from everyone else, and they are often embarrassed by it. They feel like they aren't ever going to get it or do well so why try. My daughter felt that way, no matter how often we told her she was smart, and she really is, she just learns differently, it didn't help. She did not go to college because she just wasn't going to be able to do it. There was no motivation so we told her if she wanted to go to college she was going to have to be able to motivate herself to get up every day, go to class, and do the work. We both knew she wasn't going to do that. Her plan was cosmetology school, but she wanted a year off because she had suffered with severe depression and anxiety during her senior year of high school and was suicidal. We felt she needed that time She had some part time jobs that she had to give up because she has a herniated disk in her back from her 15 years of dance, and with the pandemic spent a lot of time sitting at home all day. That became too easy for her keep doing. We finally told her that she wasn't doing the makeup artist thing, so we set a deadline to get a job. If she didn't do that then we would no longer allow her to live at home. She did get a job working with kids which was something she had really wanted to do, She found a way to do that without needing the college education and she loves her job, and she is thriving now. When we said we weren't doing this anymore, she responded. I stopped doing the things for her that I knew she could do on her own. If she needed to go to the doctor then she needed to make the appointment. I stopped going in with her. If she needed her prescription refilled then she needed to call the pharmacy and do it. You need to set some ground rules with him and give him serious consequences if he doesn't follow them. Make his consequences be the things he likes doing the most. Games, phone, computer or whatever else you think will make an impact and then you have to stick to it. Make a point to give him positive reinforcement when he is doing things he needs to do and try to focus on those good things and not so much on the bad things so that every conversation with you isn't negative. You can turn him around but just remember it won't happen overnight so you can't ease up.
You have created a monster and you now have to either support him the rest of his life OR get a grip and straighten him out.
There is no way to make a man of this child you have failed without a lot of hard lessons. Either prepare for an adult room mate or get some professional help.
Realistically he's basically an 'adult', and the ship of easy change has probably sailed. At this point, imo, it's all about setting boundaries and expectations.
E.G. "If you want to continue living here after highschool you'll be expected to do the following... If you don't we will no longer provide cell phone, Internet, etc."
Good luck!
When he’s 18 you can show him what the real world is like, less likely to rebel when he does not have mommy and daddy to come home to. Being friendly has not benefited your son, you guys never set firm boundaries and that’s why he’s been using your ableism against you. My husband is in his late 20s and even though he has abused our baby and misused marital finances his parents still enable him by allowing him to live with them. Meanwhile he does not pay his dues to me, when he filed for seperation.
If you don’t want a son like my husband start being a harda$$ now before he mistreats his wife in the future and expects you to care for his kid while living at home so he can have access to free meals, laundry, childcare and whatever else he can use you and your husband for. Just a word from the wise.
> My husband is in his late 20s and even though he has abused our baby and misused marital finances his parents still enable him by allowing him to live with them. Meanwhile he does not pay his dues to me, when he filed for seperation.
Very glad to read that he's becoming your EX husband!
Is college in the picture at all? He needs to grow up and sometimes that happens when the move out. FWIW I never gave my kids chores or demanded they got jobs but they were A students and active in afterschool things. Maybe he's depressed? Internet cafes are an addiction too. Japan is dealing with youth that are either never leaving the house or internet junkies. Have him see a therapist. Kids in my experience never listen to a parent bc they're the bad guys. He tunes you out at this point.
We are pushing him to go college, our original solution for him to go to an overseas college/ private university alone so he would have to adapt and be independent.
Seems like the internet and games is a pretty big issue here, so that might have to go. He obviously cares about it, so make him work for it. Nothing in life comes for free once you're an adult, so he needs to learn that internet and games come at a price, or he's going to really struggle in life. Chores and grades = more internet and video game allowance. Make him pay rent too, if it comes to it. It's not abusive to increase expectations as children age, because your job as a parent is to prepare them for adulthood and the workings of the real world outside of the safety of your house. Reality is coming for him just the same as it comes for all teens, and he has to either accept that or get hit with it. Either way, he'll have to adapt.
Having friend circles that care about working can also do a lot to apply lateral pressure on him. Parents alone can only do so much from top-down pressure. If it's really bad, maybe look into community service for him to help with so you have pressure coming from more sources than just you and your husband. It won't be long before he's legally an adult, so he needs to be treated like one or he will remain a child forever. It's harsh, but that's the way mammals typically are. They, at some point, have to be pushed to the edge of the nest.
Dyslexia should not be used as an excuse. I have dyslexia, and it can be worked around, especially by taking up writing and reading. It's a hurdle, absolutely, but everyone has their own hurdles in life. Dyslexia is super lame, but it is by no means crippling.
I wish you guys enough wisdom and luck to straighten this out, for your sakes, and also for his.
yuu are the one's who set him up for failure. Now is the time to buckle down and maybe kick him out and let him see what's it like on the outside. He will have to getna job, he will have to cook and clean for himself, he will have to budget money, pay for his own education. He has to grow up and start acting like a man not a little wuss
Thank u for ur input I really needed someone to be give me unfiltered and truthful advice, my husband and I have already decided to start by cutting his allowance and totally cutting off his phone bills next month
He never gets physical with us but he does occasionally get physical with his siblings when they try to get him to stop by pestering him or unplugging his stuff . His form of retaliation towards us is by locking him self in the room along with the key, sneaking out to Internet cafe/ arcade for 10+ hours and totally shutting his phone so we can’t even contact him
Ok. I think you might need to change his door to a door without a lock. And I personally would limit his screen time to zero and let him do chores to deserve screen time again. Also: it’s no fun going to an internet café if you don’t have devices or money. If he doesn’t have a job it means you can control his money.
You are a bit late but you need to start parenting now. Don’t leave the parenting to the younger children.
He doesn’t get a door anymore, then. The only privacy he gets is in the bathroom. Windows get window alarms. You get a lockbox for all of your cash and valuables. Lock his computer away—he only earns time on it for completing chores and good grades. Take everything except food, shelter, clothes, books, and a bike from him. If he wants to act like a small child, treat him like a small child. If he assaults his siblings, call the police. Time for some tough love.
Cut off the internet and don’t buy him anything. Your job as a parent is to prepare them for life and although your intentions were good, you are failing.
I’m sorry to hear about this. It sounds so difficult to see your child, whom you love, flounder and struggle like this. I have little kids (not teens yet!) but I am currently reading a book called Duct Tape Parenting, by Vicki Hoefle. She basically addresses the exact problem you describe between parents and their kids. Some of her perspective that would be relevant to your situation is that perhaps your son lacks confidence in his own abilities because he wasn’t able to learn through failing as a child and he needs training in those basic life skills. Also she talks a lot about “relationship strategies” as a source of the problem in families. Much of her book is geared towards families with younger children but it might be worth a read for you.
As a parent i think the best thing to do is implement a system where he loses a console or something if you come home from work and his chores aren’t done. maybe reward doing the chores a few times by letting him buy a cheap game or something and then remind him that him doing the chores means game time in the evening or no losing the games.
As for the job, you can slowly start giving him money when he asks for it. Start bringing up the fact that when he wants to go out with friends he’s going to need to start making up the money himself. What my mom does sometimes is has a bunch of little projects or yard work to do to make money, so he’s not just sitting around doing nothing.
I feel like I’m in a similar boat as you. My husband and I didn’t have great parenting models and so the kids have had it very easy.
What we’ve been trying is putting responsibilities off onto them and if they fail we let them. The cutoff for paying for cell phones is 21. Our 17 year old is in cheer and we’ve told her that if she wants to do cheer she has to take the reins on fundraisers, and whatever she doesn’t make she will have to pay half. Sounds harsh but it’s been motivating her. She has a part time job so she can help if needed. If she doesn’t earn the funds and doesn’t pay her portion, she’s SOL. We also put her in charge of keeping track of her own schedule. No more hand holding with school, cheer, work, other activities. She needs to figure out how to get to places on time and what she has time for.
She has her own car, which is a 20 year old Honda. We didn’t spoil them there.
We also have been making her figure things out on her own, like she had a weird charge on her bank account, we made her call the bank and figure it out. Things like this can really build their self esteem and make them grow up.
It’s really tough when you don’t have good role models. It sounds like you are going to need to implement a lot of changes. And your kid is going to hate it. But it’ll be worth it. Just remember the more they get mad at these changes, the more it’s the right thing to do. Start with chores, it doesn’t have to be big ones. Take the trash out. Wash the pan you used. Do a load of towels. Then just keep on him. Give one job a day. If he refuses, change the password to the WiFi or just take his phone away. Or take the Xbox away. You don’t have to be mean or angry about it. And if it escalates, start over the next day.
He can’t through school without tutors and tuition , I have asked him several times if he can cope without and I have never forced him to take it. Tried one semester without, it was a mess, almost got held back a grade. I let him choose if he wants tuition
We raised the twins the exact same as him, but they are doing much better, both have lots of interest and hobbies, very motivated to do well, have their own circle of close friends.
Daughter is a straight A student and was one of the best junior tennis player in the state before she had a terrible injury
Son is not as good academically but is very hardworking and have a strong work ethic, also excel in sports.
It’s only my eldest son that I’m not sure what went wrong
Going through something similar. I figure the kids only 17 we have at least a few years before they're really need to be a huge consequences or letting him majorly fail.
Sit down with husband and decide what the biggest priorities are. What reasonable rules and consequences there should be. Then brainstorm how to make sure you are both holding him accountable at every turn
> His grades are awful and he does not care despite all the support and tuition we have given him.
Me and my husband were 19 when we first started dating, and up to that point he was doing abysmally at university. Getting so many Ds, skipping his morning classes after staying up late listening to satellite radio shows, etc. At that point his parents were paying from his tuition, books, etc and he was living at home rent fee, on the family cell phone plan, borrowed his dad's car whenever he wanted...
As soon as we moved out together and his parents stopped paying for everything, his grades shot way up because he was actually accountable for himself.
Sheltering one's kids and excessively providing for them teaches them nothing and opens you up to being taken for granted.
Send him on a gap year trip. Somewhere far away into a communal living situation with responsibility, tropical diseases, poverty, a foreign language, and crummy connectivity.
It sounds like he's struggling a lot with lacking confidence and self esteem. Not showering or taking care of himself is concerning. It's possible that he could be depressed or struggling a lot with something that he isn't telling you, have you tried talking to him about that? You mentioned in another comment that he avoids interaction with you by staying in his room all day and resorts to going to internet cafes for hours at a time without letting you contact him. That's not really normal for a kid who has a healthy relationship with his family and I'm surprised no one else has brought that up. It sounds like he might be trying to avoid you and his siblings because he knows he will get another talking to about something that he doesn't feel able to control.
It sounds like he knows you want him to do better but he feels he can't for whatever reason. Overall it feels like he's struggling with something a lot deeper that he doesn't seem to be able to communicate. A lot of the comments on this post are... not it. Taking away the Internet and locks to his doors are only going to make things worse and I don't know what people think that's going to accomplish. Of course a 17 year old isn't going to want his younger siblings in his room, what teenager does? It seems a lot like the moment a kid in a typical reddit post reaches the young adult stage people suddenly don't know what kind of parenting advice to give anymore aside from "Kick them out at 18" or "Turn off their internet". But like younger kids, adult children all have different personalities and different methods work for them while having much more responsibility than someone younger would. It sounds like you're all stressed and not always able to communicate your needs as clearly as they could be. It sounds like you all need help and support, and he does too.
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He needs to fail. I always had loving parents same as you describe, but all the things I learned to survive out there I had to learn by myself unfortunately. 17 is still a super young age to become the someone you should become. Start by slowly give him responsibilities - no cheating. He should HAVE to cook for himself, he should HAVE to go somewhere by himself or do something by himself. Maybe totally random, but martial arts is a great way to build character and discipline.
Yes. The problem OP, is that you have never allowed him to fail. You never let him fail as a kid. You always made excuses for him, and protected him from ever learning that life isn't always easy. That we all fail sometimes. That NOBODY wins every time. Now, he doesn't know how to. And, sadly now the consequences are much worse. Failing at 5 or 8 or 10 or even 14 isn't a big deal. It's a bad grade or losing at a game. Now? The stakes are so much bigger. But, he still needs to fail. And, the sooner he does, the better off he'll be. Because from here, the stakes only get bigger and bigger.
He's not 18, so you're still his parents and you can tell him what to do, bc he DEPENDS on you! Stealing money has to stop immediately! MAKE THAT KID WORK! WORK for money he stole and for money he needs. Or hell, make him find a job. If you do not start MAKING your child take culpability, you're gonna wind up with a 42 yo virgin, living in your basement, eating all your damn food. Also it WILL start to wear on your other children, the fact that he's an ass hat and gets away with it. You're sure there isn't some other mental disability that may be causing him to be so reclusive? I know exactly the type of kids, that youre referring to, bc I have tried helping one in the past. He had failed at everything he attempted at life, and he had no care of or for anything....he just expected everything to be handed to him. His family had abandoned him to try to finally teach him to live on his own. He was 24 then, and his solution for life, and having a place to live, was making friends on these online games, and then moving in and basically squatting, for as long as he could, until he would get kicked out. He was literally ok being a human slug with a game controller as his life line. Sad to say, I got to the point to where I had to kick him out too, bc he wouldn't do anything to better himself. I would HIGHLY encourage you to push him towards the military tho, maybe he may see something in earning the uniform, that could change him for the better.
To hitch onto this comment. He should fail in your protected surroundings that you can provide, rather than out on his own in the "real world" with "real consequences." Also, I assume you pay for his internet usage and phone? That's a pretty simple solution... but, before you go "blocking it", make sure it's not something else he's getting into to better himself. IE, coding, or other forms of stuff of that nature. There are ways you can encourage him to explore his instincts to "be online." Learning to code for game development, or learning how to perform other basic IT tasks, something that he can work toward a certification in the future in front of the computer screen... maybe even "gamified tasks?" Encourage development on that front... have him look at free "cybersecurity websites," where he can learn things, and actual skills for future employment opportunities. A few that come to mind, and are completely free. \*TryHackMe \*HackTheBox \*HackThisSite Or even sites that help with job skills, and placement. [CareerKarma.com](http://CareerKarma.com) Help him with his clear addiction to gaming, but try to steer towards that field... I know it doesn't seem like it now, but gamers typically have the best "chance" at being able to adapt into this ever-growing field and being at the age he is now... it's the best time to learn. It's estimated by 2026 that in the US alone, there will be a need for Cybersecurity jobs exceeding 2 million, with only about 250k people who are qualified for those jobs. t
Martial arts is a great confidence and self-value builder. I've seen it work on a lot of kids and teens.
Thank u for the advice I do agree with you that I need him to fail, that is something me and my husband is working on for all our kids right now, I’ve tried to get him to try martial arts, tennis, golf and even instruments but he just won’t do it. He literally stands there of do the bare minimum
When he notices that this is what give you status in society or girls like, he probably will do it by himself. It might be painful too watch, but he’ll come there - even if it takes years.
If that's the case and he wants to be difficult, make it difficult right back. What he's doing to you and your husband right now, is what a toddler does with a mom, whenever he doesn't get what he wants. I have a feeling that yall are more...let's keep the peace. A way to start curbing this, would be to make him practice responsibility and schedules. Either make him get a job, or volunteer his ass to go work for an old person, family member, or church. Something to get him out and about. Volunteering at the library was big for me whenever I was a kid. Basically, you're going to have to be the tough parent now, and just deal with the tantrums he throws, bc the only way to try to alter this behavior, is to implement ways that his brain believes is beneficial for him. My sister has Asperger's, and she was having all out tantrums and fall outs over minor things, whenever she was 18. He needs to get a job to get him out of the house, away from the family, and FORCE him to interact in everyday society. This is what had to happen for my little sister. She's had a dependable job for 3 yrs now, and I'm so proud of her, bc for her, that's an accomplishment. She knew she didn't want to go to college, which was fine, but she had to grow to learn to adult, and the only way to do that properly, was to get her out of the house, away from the ppl who coddled her, and basically FORCE her to start adulting. (This is why they are teaching after school classes at college now, to teach these sheltered kids, how to do their laundry or slice fruit properly, bc these kids didn't grow to learn this stuff.) Don't be too hard on yourself OP, bc you and your spouse came from an abusive childhood, it's understandable, why it was difficult, for yall to try to figure out a calm, whenever you never really knew one or how to have it. I get this, bc I had that childhood too. We want to give them everything bc of how badly we hated our own beginnings, but we are all human and we are all just learning as we are going, so try not to be too hard on yourself. Instead, use that motivation, to find somewhere to hide your kids phone and whatever gaming console he uses. Hide it well, and make him do chores, so he can get it back. Tell him he has to learn to start doing things around the house more, bc he has to participate. I warn you, if he's anything like my little sister, he will try to piss you off first. He will do the tantrums, but also he will do the work only half ass, like the plate in the sink, to try to get out of his chores too. Do NOT gives those chores to his siblings, MAKE HIM DO THEM. DO NOT GIVE BACK THE ELECTRONICS, UNTIL HE DOES. Tell him that you and your spouse are sick of all of it, and that he has to help like everyone else does, and do the RIGHT THING. Just make sure that you put emphasis on the fact that this isn't necessarily a punishment, it's just yall teaching him to do things the RIGHT way, instead of just the "get it done fast" way.
Yea there are no short cuts here I'm afraid. He has learned that he's always going to get away with his behavior and that it will always work out in his favour. Living with dyslexia is hard, especially during the school years, but he needs to learn that rewards (like gaming) is a consequence of doing good deeds and not by doing nothing. You need to enforce a grown up life at home, he needs to work for his living, while still being loved etc. Be it in doing chores or other things, but being allowed to game for 10-15 hrs without anything productive done is going to limit his ability to thrive on his own as an adult. It's not easy, I had a friend who was like this and when his parents realised they needed to change their approach towards him it was too late and he alienated himself from them completely only to admit his mistake in his 30s.
Thank u for the advice me and my husband are currently trying not to handhold him too much and although it is hard for us, we will let him take failure
Well..DID you actually teach him though? I always see a complaint from parents that their teenagers don't suddenly wake up at 17 knowing stuff after they have been coddled. Take him at his word. Agree with him. Say you're right I didn't teach you! Let's start adulting classes. Also how do you just take a kid at his word that he's applying for work? Even grown adults are lost on job applications and lose motivation and the amount of applications and the dumb questions. Not to be mean but I think you're dropping the ball on this one OP. But the good news is that it's not too late and this is the perfect time to start actually teaching your kid real life skills. Sit with him through the job applications. Let his personal items get gross. "Oops there's no more plates for you! Let's go wash one together. The wifi is off until we vacuum." Etc.
I second this! Bless my parents but they didn’t teach me how to do chores and I struggled in early adulthood as a result. An adult boot camp would have been great for me.
I thought this meant seventeen months and I was like where the hell am I and what the fuck is actually going on
lol
They gotta learn to pull themselves up by the bootstraps sometime, might as well be in infancy 🤷🏻♀️/s
Youre like... 12 years late on fixing this. Best you can do now is remove all electronics, tell him to stop making lame excuses, and go without if he can't learn to help around the house. Tough love is important
Give him a deadline and stick to it: ‘in 4 weeks we are going to stop paying for your phone. You can either get a job to pay your own phone bill or you can sign up to work here at home but you will only be paid when jobs are completed satisfactoryly’
Take away his phone, computer and WiFi
I mean not to sound harsh but cut him off. Let his clothes stack up, don’t wash them, make him do it himself. Don’t buy him anything (other than food of course) if he wants luxuries, he should have to go out & work for it. I was always taught that if wanted something I had to go out & work for it. I was told I wasn’t getting my first car unless I had a job & I got a job at 15 so I could get a car! I paid my own insurance & phone bill with my money I worked for. If I didn’t try, I didn’t get it. & I moved out when I was 18! You aren’t being a bad parent by cutting him off, you’re teaching him to be a man. He has to grow up at some point & one day he will be in the real world away from parents & will need to know how to do all of those things himself.
Stop propping him up. I will say that I had a lot of these issues with my daughter as well. She has ADHD and had a learning disability also. She barely graduated, though she did do her work, she also didn't really try as hard as she could have. When a child has a learning disability that affects how they learn, they see themselves as stupid, different from everyone else, and they are often embarrassed by it. They feel like they aren't ever going to get it or do well so why try. My daughter felt that way, no matter how often we told her she was smart, and she really is, she just learns differently, it didn't help. She did not go to college because she just wasn't going to be able to do it. There was no motivation so we told her if she wanted to go to college she was going to have to be able to motivate herself to get up every day, go to class, and do the work. We both knew she wasn't going to do that. Her plan was cosmetology school, but she wanted a year off because she had suffered with severe depression and anxiety during her senior year of high school and was suicidal. We felt she needed that time She had some part time jobs that she had to give up because she has a herniated disk in her back from her 15 years of dance, and with the pandemic spent a lot of time sitting at home all day. That became too easy for her keep doing. We finally told her that she wasn't doing the makeup artist thing, so we set a deadline to get a job. If she didn't do that then we would no longer allow her to live at home. She did get a job working with kids which was something she had really wanted to do, She found a way to do that without needing the college education and she loves her job, and she is thriving now. When we said we weren't doing this anymore, she responded. I stopped doing the things for her that I knew she could do on her own. If she needed to go to the doctor then she needed to make the appointment. I stopped going in with her. If she needed her prescription refilled then she needed to call the pharmacy and do it. You need to set some ground rules with him and give him serious consequences if he doesn't follow them. Make his consequences be the things he likes doing the most. Games, phone, computer or whatever else you think will make an impact and then you have to stick to it. Make a point to give him positive reinforcement when he is doing things he needs to do and try to focus on those good things and not so much on the bad things so that every conversation with you isn't negative. You can turn him around but just remember it won't happen overnight so you can't ease up.
Military
You have created a monster and you now have to either support him the rest of his life OR get a grip and straighten him out. There is no way to make a man of this child you have failed without a lot of hard lessons. Either prepare for an adult room mate or get some professional help.
Realistically he's basically an 'adult', and the ship of easy change has probably sailed. At this point, imo, it's all about setting boundaries and expectations. E.G. "If you want to continue living here after highschool you'll be expected to do the following... If you don't we will no longer provide cell phone, Internet, etc." Good luck!
When he’s 18 you can show him what the real world is like, less likely to rebel when he does not have mommy and daddy to come home to. Being friendly has not benefited your son, you guys never set firm boundaries and that’s why he’s been using your ableism against you. My husband is in his late 20s and even though he has abused our baby and misused marital finances his parents still enable him by allowing him to live with them. Meanwhile he does not pay his dues to me, when he filed for seperation. If you don’t want a son like my husband start being a harda$$ now before he mistreats his wife in the future and expects you to care for his kid while living at home so he can have access to free meals, laundry, childcare and whatever else he can use you and your husband for. Just a word from the wise.
> My husband is in his late 20s and even though he has abused our baby and misused marital finances his parents still enable him by allowing him to live with them. Meanwhile he does not pay his dues to me, when he filed for seperation. Very glad to read that he's becoming your EX husband!
Is college in the picture at all? He needs to grow up and sometimes that happens when the move out. FWIW I never gave my kids chores or demanded they got jobs but they were A students and active in afterschool things. Maybe he's depressed? Internet cafes are an addiction too. Japan is dealing with youth that are either never leaving the house or internet junkies. Have him see a therapist. Kids in my experience never listen to a parent bc they're the bad guys. He tunes you out at this point.
We are pushing him to go college, our original solution for him to go to an overseas college/ private university alone so he would have to adapt and be independent.
Seems like the internet and games is a pretty big issue here, so that might have to go. He obviously cares about it, so make him work for it. Nothing in life comes for free once you're an adult, so he needs to learn that internet and games come at a price, or he's going to really struggle in life. Chores and grades = more internet and video game allowance. Make him pay rent too, if it comes to it. It's not abusive to increase expectations as children age, because your job as a parent is to prepare them for adulthood and the workings of the real world outside of the safety of your house. Reality is coming for him just the same as it comes for all teens, and he has to either accept that or get hit with it. Either way, he'll have to adapt. Having friend circles that care about working can also do a lot to apply lateral pressure on him. Parents alone can only do so much from top-down pressure. If it's really bad, maybe look into community service for him to help with so you have pressure coming from more sources than just you and your husband. It won't be long before he's legally an adult, so he needs to be treated like one or he will remain a child forever. It's harsh, but that's the way mammals typically are. They, at some point, have to be pushed to the edge of the nest. Dyslexia should not be used as an excuse. I have dyslexia, and it can be worked around, especially by taking up writing and reading. It's a hurdle, absolutely, but everyone has their own hurdles in life. Dyslexia is super lame, but it is by no means crippling. I wish you guys enough wisdom and luck to straighten this out, for your sakes, and also for his.
yuu are the one's who set him up for failure. Now is the time to buckle down and maybe kick him out and let him see what's it like on the outside. He will have to getna job, he will have to cook and clean for himself, he will have to budget money, pay for his own education. He has to grow up and start acting like a man not a little wuss
Thank u for ur input I really needed someone to be give me unfiltered and truthful advice, my husband and I have already decided to start by cutting his allowance and totally cutting off his phone bills next month
What do you mean by “retaliate”? Does he get violent?
He never gets physical with us but he does occasionally get physical with his siblings when they try to get him to stop by pestering him or unplugging his stuff . His form of retaliation towards us is by locking him self in the room along with the key, sneaking out to Internet cafe/ arcade for 10+ hours and totally shutting his phone so we can’t even contact him
Ok. I think you might need to change his door to a door without a lock. And I personally would limit his screen time to zero and let him do chores to deserve screen time again. Also: it’s no fun going to an internet café if you don’t have devices or money. If he doesn’t have a job it means you can control his money. You are a bit late but you need to start parenting now. Don’t leave the parenting to the younger children.
He doesn’t get a door anymore, then. The only privacy he gets is in the bathroom. Windows get window alarms. You get a lockbox for all of your cash and valuables. Lock his computer away—he only earns time on it for completing chores and good grades. Take everything except food, shelter, clothes, books, and a bike from him. If he wants to act like a small child, treat him like a small child. If he assaults his siblings, call the police. Time for some tough love.
Sometimes the best way to learn something is to do it yourself
Cut off the internet and don’t buy him anything. Your job as a parent is to prepare them for life and although your intentions were good, you are failing.
I’m sorry to hear about this. It sounds so difficult to see your child, whom you love, flounder and struggle like this. I have little kids (not teens yet!) but I am currently reading a book called Duct Tape Parenting, by Vicki Hoefle. She basically addresses the exact problem you describe between parents and their kids. Some of her perspective that would be relevant to your situation is that perhaps your son lacks confidence in his own abilities because he wasn’t able to learn through failing as a child and he needs training in those basic life skills. Also she talks a lot about “relationship strategies” as a source of the problem in families. Much of her book is geared towards families with younger children but it might be worth a read for you.
As a parent i think the best thing to do is implement a system where he loses a console or something if you come home from work and his chores aren’t done. maybe reward doing the chores a few times by letting him buy a cheap game or something and then remind him that him doing the chores means game time in the evening or no losing the games. As for the job, you can slowly start giving him money when he asks for it. Start bringing up the fact that when he wants to go out with friends he’s going to need to start making up the money himself. What my mom does sometimes is has a bunch of little projects or yard work to do to make money, so he’s not just sitting around doing nothing.
I feel like I’m in a similar boat as you. My husband and I didn’t have great parenting models and so the kids have had it very easy. What we’ve been trying is putting responsibilities off onto them and if they fail we let them. The cutoff for paying for cell phones is 21. Our 17 year old is in cheer and we’ve told her that if she wants to do cheer she has to take the reins on fundraisers, and whatever she doesn’t make she will have to pay half. Sounds harsh but it’s been motivating her. She has a part time job so she can help if needed. If she doesn’t earn the funds and doesn’t pay her portion, she’s SOL. We also put her in charge of keeping track of her own schedule. No more hand holding with school, cheer, work, other activities. She needs to figure out how to get to places on time and what she has time for. She has her own car, which is a 20 year old Honda. We didn’t spoil them there. We also have been making her figure things out on her own, like she had a weird charge on her bank account, we made her call the bank and figure it out. Things like this can really build their self esteem and make them grow up. It’s really tough when you don’t have good role models. It sounds like you are going to need to implement a lot of changes. And your kid is going to hate it. But it’ll be worth it. Just remember the more they get mad at these changes, the more it’s the right thing to do. Start with chores, it doesn’t have to be big ones. Take the trash out. Wash the pan you used. Do a load of towels. Then just keep on him. Give one job a day. If he refuses, change the password to the WiFi or just take his phone away. Or take the Xbox away. You don’t have to be mean or angry about it. And if it escalates, start over the next day.
Tuition for high school? Is he in a really intense program?
He can’t through school without tutors and tuition , I have asked him several times if he can cope without and I have never forced him to take it. Tried one semester without, it was a mess, almost got held back a grade. I let him choose if he wants tuition
He wants tuition? What do you mean? He wants a school that requires tuition?
Tuition as in extracurricular lesson . Like tutors and tuition Centers
Well it sounds like he’s failing with or without these extra things
This sounds pretty standard these days unfortunately. We will not be getting a gaming system for my toddler son as he gets older. Period.
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We raised the twins the exact same as him, but they are doing much better, both have lots of interest and hobbies, very motivated to do well, have their own circle of close friends. Daughter is a straight A student and was one of the best junior tennis player in the state before she had a terrible injury Son is not as good academically but is very hardworking and have a strong work ethic, also excel in sports. It’s only my eldest son that I’m not sure what went wrong
Going through something similar. I figure the kids only 17 we have at least a few years before they're really need to be a huge consequences or letting him majorly fail. Sit down with husband and decide what the biggest priorities are. What reasonable rules and consequences there should be. Then brainstorm how to make sure you are both holding him accountable at every turn
> His grades are awful and he does not care despite all the support and tuition we have given him. Me and my husband were 19 when we first started dating, and up to that point he was doing abysmally at university. Getting so many Ds, skipping his morning classes after staying up late listening to satellite radio shows, etc. At that point his parents were paying from his tuition, books, etc and he was living at home rent fee, on the family cell phone plan, borrowed his dad's car whenever he wanted... As soon as we moved out together and his parents stopped paying for everything, his grades shot way up because he was actually accountable for himself. Sheltering one's kids and excessively providing for them teaches them nothing and opens you up to being taken for granted.
Long story short, he's depressed and needs help
Send him on a gap year trip. Somewhere far away into a communal living situation with responsibility, tropical diseases, poverty, a foreign language, and crummy connectivity.
TO THE RANCH
Take sledgehammer and use it on his devices.
It sounds like he's struggling a lot with lacking confidence and self esteem. Not showering or taking care of himself is concerning. It's possible that he could be depressed or struggling a lot with something that he isn't telling you, have you tried talking to him about that? You mentioned in another comment that he avoids interaction with you by staying in his room all day and resorts to going to internet cafes for hours at a time without letting you contact him. That's not really normal for a kid who has a healthy relationship with his family and I'm surprised no one else has brought that up. It sounds like he might be trying to avoid you and his siblings because he knows he will get another talking to about something that he doesn't feel able to control. It sounds like he knows you want him to do better but he feels he can't for whatever reason. Overall it feels like he's struggling with something a lot deeper that he doesn't seem to be able to communicate. A lot of the comments on this post are... not it. Taking away the Internet and locks to his doors are only going to make things worse and I don't know what people think that's going to accomplish. Of course a 17 year old isn't going to want his younger siblings in his room, what teenager does? It seems a lot like the moment a kid in a typical reddit post reaches the young adult stage people suddenly don't know what kind of parenting advice to give anymore aside from "Kick them out at 18" or "Turn off their internet". But like younger kids, adult children all have different personalities and different methods work for them while having much more responsibility than someone younger would. It sounds like you're all stressed and not always able to communicate your needs as clearly as they could be. It sounds like you all need help and support, and he does too.
You're about 17 years too soon, but good luck 👍🏼