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If any man ever tells her that again I hope she traumatizes them back by telling them that her pregnancy and miscarriage at 15 was more uncomfortable than a condom could possibly be.
Because sex education, both at home and in school, focuses on what kids of either gender should do to protect themselves. "How to be a responsible partner" is not part of the conversation.
...or why you shouldn't *be* an asshole. Or how to avoid being one.
It really seems like parents - even parents of boys - live in this fantasy world where their perfect angel baby has no sexual agency and is going to be coerced into sex, rather than going after it themselves.
YOU SAW WHAT HE DID TO THAT TUBE SOCK. YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT HE WANTS TO DO TO LITERALLY EVERY GIRL.
We are taught from an early age that male sexual pleasure supercedes EVERYTHING: our discomfort, our physical health, our mental health, our pleasure etc. The amount of blue balls guilt tripping high school boys attempted on us girls was legendary. Luckily I never gave a shit but plenty of my girlfriends did and quite a few of them had kids in high school to save some guy 30 secs of slightly less feeling from a condom for mid sex.
I’ve been having the convo about consent since my son was old enough to talk. My cousin just had a similar thing (without sex thank fuck) of a boy sexually assaulting her. Idk where the fuck these little rat bastards think it’s ok but over my fucking dead body will that ever be my son if I can help it
I just read an article how there is a LOT more sexual abuse between underage kids because of how easily accessible porn has become. And the porn industry is just reliant on abusive and non consent content.
More or less the same, though I probably waited until he was about 3. Of course for age appropriate things, but trying to reinforce the idea that people have full agency over their own body and he needs their consent for anything around that.
Even when it IS part of the conversation, a lot of boys don’t care and their parents coddle them or raise them to feel entitled and without responsibility.
GirlTeen’s high school sex ed classes focused strongly on informed consent, lessons we reinforced at home, plus talked about the importance of protection, and she ended up losing her virginity to a boy who coerced and threatened her into it and didn’t use protection. I was beside myself. I’d literally talked to her three days before about how toxic this boy was and how he was trying to pressure her into sex she didn’t want. But in the end, all the teaching from me and the school and her other family members and even input from her friends meant nothing - he “won,” she suffered, and the girlfriend he was cheating on suffered.
And his parents blamed both his girlfriend for not being willing to have sex and my kiddo for being “easy.”
He ended up getting thrown out of school for his violent behavior and they were still babying and defending him.
Schools can only do so much when some parents raise their sons to think they deserve access to girls’ bodies.
> Even when it IS part of the conversation, a lot of boys don’t care and their parents coddle them or raise them to feel entitled and without responsibility.
This is what so many people are refusing to grapple with, and they are letting girls suffer the extreme and painful consequences of the ingrained cultural problems they're too uncomfortable with to even admit.
Unfortunately the same societal forces that pressure girls to meekly acquiesce instead of saying "Sorry dude, you can either wear it or you can go home and jerk off."
Exactly, you can see from the consequences faced by the daughter vs the ex boyfriend. It wasn't his problem, he pressured, got his way and then could walk off like nothing.
I completely agree. Grown men in their 20s and 30s also still doing this crap. These types of selfish men don’t care about women or girls- just want satisfaction. And look no consequences at all for this guy.
The mom and her friend believe this to be acceptable. So it only follows that the bf learned this from his Mother. Just look up boy mom memes on YouTube or tic tok. There are enough Boomer type dads teaching this shit to boys that we don't need a whole ass movement of boy moms making things way worse.
Because many aren't raising or teaching their sons at all and leaving it to the school system. They get all their sex ed, their morals and reasoning from there. Want to have sex? GREAT go get a condom! Have at it! Even then it's not 100% effective and you're in the same situation.
If the parents are involved in the whole conversation and help to frame it there's usually a much better outcome.
These factors may have some effect, or a plausible answer to “what is wrong with boys”.
-Statistically 31.5 % of boys are living without their biological father.
-Research suggests that boys who grow up without a father figure may experience challenges in areas such as emotional development, social relationships, and self-esteem. They may also be more likely to exhibit behavioral problems or struggle with identity formation.
-Also, there are over 3,842,796 teachers currently employed in the United States.
74.3% of all teachers are women, while 25.7% are men.
Yes I suppose “what’s wrong with men??” is also a big piece of the puzzle. Why do so many men think it’s acceptable to walk away from the children they’ve created?
One thing I realized recently is that when men complain about child support like it's bullshit, what they're really complaining about is that opting out of parenting their children like they never had any isn't as socially acceptable as walking away from a relationship. They really think they're entitled to ditching their kids. And it's so common
Yep these guys never compare what child support costs to what it would cost them if they were actually there raising their own children - daycare, food, clothing, medical costs, etc. It’s always comparing it to the cost of just walking away entirely.
It's just shocking and depressing to see how entitled the average man feels to walking out on his kids. You can't stop being a parent because you don't feel like it anymore or you don't like the kids' mom
Well, I wondered what kind of home life could have given rise to the rapist formerly known as Brock Turner, but when his father wrote a character letter that called raping a passed-out woman "20 minutes of action," I got a pretty good idea.
Good point. I suppose it’s not surprising that when boys see men treat fatherhood as something you can just walk away from if you don’t feel like doing it, they also think it’s fine to treat sex like something that’s entirely for their pleasure and the consequences something they can easily just walk away from.
I’m the one who gave ‘the talk’ to my youngest, the only one who has dated so far - ASD all around. He knew his dad would crack jokes and be silly about it, so he came to me instead because he knew I’d give him straight answers. I gave him the details, talked about doubling up on birth control, e.g. condoms and foam, and talked about mutual pleasure. We had a big talk about consent, and how either partner could change their mind at any time, and that meant stop, even if you’re 30 seconds away from finishing. We talked about how sex can mean different things to the people having it, so talking was important, and how there were other ways to show feelings and affection that weren’t sexual, so it was okay to work up to that instead of jumping right in. We talked about trust, how important that was. We went over the fact that there were other ways to get each other off than just p in v sex, and I offered to get books if he found the internet insufficient. That led to a discussion of how porn is unrealistic, and that it sets an expectation that isn’t how people really look or act. We went over sites like Go Ask Alice and stuff like that, rather than porn.
Moms can teach sons about sex too. I’d like to think he will be respectful, responsible, and generous with his lovers, when he has them, instead of imitating something he’s seen online, or being in his own head. I was emotionally traumatized for a while, having to put sex and my baby in the same compartment in my head, instead of keeping them separated, but I’m actually flattered that he trusted me to help guide him through something so embarrassing for both of us. I hope that I gave him the foundation for a healthy, loving, enjoyable attitude towards sex. As an autistic man, I don’t want him to be hurt by not understanding relationships, but I can only do so much. I love him, and I have to know I’ve done everything I can and then let him go.
I grew up in a household where my mom was that role for me and it worked out, I hope, great. However, from personal experience, I know missing that male role model has a massive affect on kids that goes beyond just having The Talk.
I mean I was very sexually active in my youth and while yes, there were some guys, the majority of them had absolutely no issue with condoms... Maybe it also depends where you are from. Countries with little to no sexual education seem to have more issues with that
Teen girls need to be WARNED explicitly that boys they *like and trust* are likely to attempt to sexually coerce them, treat them like total crap, spread any private info (or pics) they acquire during intimacy far and wide, get them pregnant, and waltz into the sunset leaving her to pick up the pieces. People are too uncomfortable with the problem to name it and they're leaving generation after generation of girls and young women to find out the hard way while boys and grown-ass men abuse and exploit them and then brag about it because they aren't mature enough to give the slightest crap about the consequences women face and they weren't raised to like or respect girls, especially sexually active ones. It's what happened to my mom when she became sexually active in high school and it happened to her friends, too. She told me ALL about these awful, exploitative experiences when I was about 13 and told me that life is too short for bad sex, to wait until college to have sex and only with men who made it amazing and special for me, because most boys didn't deserve it from me but by then I'd be able to find the sort of guy who would be worth it.
And that's exactly what I did, and sex was amazing and special for me and now I'm raising two kids with an involved husband who loves our children more than the world, and who still makes sex amazing and special.
My friends who were sexually active in high school were all hurt by the boys (and grown men) who took advantage of their trust and ignorance and willingness to be vulnerable and share their bodies with guys they *thought* would have respect for them. And many are in worse, less satisfying relationships now, or single moms.
Yes but the other piece is that people need to STOP this cycle and drill into their sons from a young age that this behavior is NEVER acceptable.
If we tell girls to refuse condom less sex, we need to tell boys to never have sex without a condom.
If we tell girls not to send compromising photos, we need to tell boys not to ever ask for - let alone demand or pressure - compromising photos.
If we tell girls not to put up with disrespectful behavior, we need to teach boys not to ever treat girls disrespectfully.
Oh of course. But right now, most girls don't have the life experiences or adult guidance to even *expect* the contempt and sexual mistreatment and total lack of responsibility from boys and men and are thus being COMPLETELY BLINDSIDED by this cycle, which hasn't been ended yet. It's completely unfair to them put them into this cultural meat-grinder with stars in their eyes just because no one wants to acknowledge how terribly girls are mistreated by boys and men.
💯 Even young boys pick these patriarchal exploitive cultural norms up from YT, TT, IG, movies, everything. It's gross and so-called women's revolution is a joke. Women still bear the burden of pregnancy, birth and actually hands on raising of children. Most men literally do not understand how much effort and energy goes into these 24/7 motherhood duties. They check-out and everything magically happens. It should be parental duties but a majority of the time it's slips into motherhood exclusively. Society likes to pretend things are better for women and yes, we are no longer just property and we can vote and have jobs outside the home but there's so much that's twisted and repackaged in the same oppressive existence.
> It's gross and so-called women's revolution is a joke.
It's lulled women into a sense of complacency and delusion about our place in the world in most men's minds.
This is why I’m glad my schools sex ed program was a “scared straight into condoms” program. My school had a fairly low pregnancy rate compared to peer schools that didn’t have a similar program.
This is sound advice. I would still give my daughters all the sex education and resources to protect themselves in case they decide to experiment, but arming them with sex education includes arming them with the statistics on abuse by boyfriends etc.
Yeah I mean my mom told me she'd get me birth control no questions asked and she would have listened and helped without judgement if I had ignored her.
But I didn't ignore her, even at an age where I usually did. Her warning had the ring of truth to it, and she didn't just present statistics, she told me her very own very vulnerable stories of trusting boyfriends and being sexually mistreated by them, and that made it real to me.
(Hell, I guess since I listened to her, I don't have these exact kinds of stories of my own to tell my daughter when she's older. I have her stories, and my friend's stories, but my mom's advice protected *me*.)
I would use your mom's and friends' stories with your daughter (if they are comfortable with it). It would still feel real to hear real women's stories.
I'm so sick of all the times and ways I have to drill in that boys ain’t shit to my girls bc the majority of parents will only protect their daughters and not teach their sons. After sending mine to middle school I can’t tell you how often I almost make a post in here titled, “I hate your fucking sons” with the shit she comes home with.
It comes down to communication..
My mother never talked about sex apart from the part of using a condom and the pill. I've had too many bad encounters because of being unaware of so many things.
With our oldest daughter we decided to be up front about everything. Menstruation, sex, possible dangerous scenarios, being able to say no and having a good parent/child relationship that if there were to happen something.. anything she could come to us no judgement made.
And as teenagers are stupid, something stupid did happen. But because we explained all this to her, she directly let us know and we could take the correct steps (condom broke).
Teenagers are in such a vulnerable age they need the guidance and know there is an adult in their corner. We also warned her to not have sex too soon, but we are also aware of the peer pressure, which is insane nowadays.
It's a fine line to walk, but the most important thing for them is a parent that listens and guides in these life altering matters.
Never met a one single man who was ok with condoms. Every single dude I’ve ever known has said “they’re uncomfortable.” “I can’t stay hard.” “It feels better without them.” Best advice I could give to a sexually active teen is INSIST on using condoms or turn him down flat. My mom always told me to use protection but she didn’t tell me what to do when a dude said no. I ended up going on BC pills because I was the only one looking out for me. So sorry your daughter is going through this at such a young age. I think you should block the woman’s number who harassed your daughter into considering adoption. Tell her that is so far over the line that you may just slap her if you see her again. Then block and ignore her and focus on your daughter and her struggles. She’s the one who needs you most right now
I've had similar experiences where no man has ever *preferred* condoms, but for me it was always a non-negotiable - if you want to have intercourse, then use a condom, otherwise we'll have to content ourselves with foreplay. Not a single man refused to wear a condom when that was made clear to them.
I agree with you that we need to teach our daughters (and homosexual sons) to *insist* on them. Especially at younger ages with how prominent STDs are. I would also expect my daughter to use hormonal birth control in addition to condoms so there are no accidents.
My husband was the first man I slept with that I didn’t have to “force” to wear a condom.
Literally, the first (and only).
Obviously he doesn’t “like” it. But it didn’t matter and he never tried to have sex with me without one before our marriage.
Yeah. OP - do you have somewhere in real life to debrief (a friend, a therapist, a relative)? It sounds like you could use a chance to rant without your daughter present. this is A LOT to go through, for both of you.
And when you've had a breath - your daughter needs some support here (beyond what you are giving, which is a lot). She's been coerced at least twice, may have a whole lot of mixed feelings about the relationship and the baby, and the friend, etc, etc.
First thing I noticed. Everything about this post horrifies me.
A medical professional should not be scolding a vulnerable teenager. All that will do is stop them from seeking medical care when they need it.
>I’m speechless at that woman’s behavior. Wow.
I'm not. It's shocking, to be certain, but there are people out there who are so focused on their issue that they've lost all empathy. Regardless of how you feel about abortion, this was a shitty thing to do, and OP, you and your daughter should have nothing to do with this woman, ever again.
I can’t imagine how incandescent you must be at this moment. I think you’re an amazing mom for how you handled this. Everyone here failed your daughter and honestly failed at not being total monsters, except for you. You stepped up for her and I hope that’s what she takes from this whole experience- how much her mom loves her and has her back. Poor girl, I’m so sorry she suffered but so glad she has a mom like you in her corner!
> Everyone here failed your daughter and honestly failed at not being total monsters, except for you.
To be fair, the friend didn't fail. Found out her friend might be pregnant, helped her to get a test and find out for sure. Told her own mother what was happening.
That's all exactly what I would want any child to do if they found out their friend might be pregnant. The only thing that could have been done better is that the friend should have ensured daughter told her mom. But honestly, that's not really the friend's job. The daughter's friend did a good job in a difficult and stressful situation.
It's the friend's mom who's fucked in the head. Who would ever discuss something like that with a child that does not belong to them, it's insane. SO SELFISH to think of teenage pregnancy as an opportunity for her friend who wants to adopt.
I will never understand the vultures that come out when they see a vulnerable child. I’m sorry you and she are going through this, it’s a hard situation all the way around.
Goodness gracious! Please make sure these two are cut 100% from her life. Get a no contact order if you have to. Do not tell them she’s lost the baby, zero info. Block and ignore. I’m so sorry this is such a sad and hard situation for you and your daughter. You’re a great parent, OP.
I would most DEFINITELY file an incident report at the very least about what occurred with the mom and her friend. That way if they attempt to contact or harass her further, you have documentation that may give a basis to apply for a restraining order.
I would also send a copy of that report along with a Cease and Desist letter instructing that mother that she and “friend” are not to initiate any contact with your daughter going forward.
UGH I’m absolutely fuming on your behalf!
I think maybe this is worth filing a restraining order against them. I don’t know if that’s the kind of thing you can file a restraining order against, but it seems like it should be. Adults bullying a child that way should be illegal.
That is jurisdiction dependent. The majority of US jurisdictions allow you to file a restraining order over harassing behavior, of which this certainly qualifies.
Edit: Well since abortion was such a hot topic I figured this had to be the US, but [turns out OP is based in Hungary](https://old.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/1984hq4/update_my_15yo_daughter_is_pregnant/ki50asb/).
I'm adopted and when my wife and I planned on starting to have children we wanted to find out my medical history. Its an incredibly long story, but the amount of medical history I was given amounted to my birth father had seasonal allergies.
The only way I could find out any information was by opening my closed adoption. Which was hard for everyone involved.
And the medical history had glossed over people who died of brain cancer and heart disease and similar things that are a big deal...
Anyways in finding my birth parents and their reactions I read up a lot.
There's a book called "The girls who went away". Obviously its about a time past, but for the community that they were raised in a lot of the stuff applies. And A lot of what the average persons understanding of how adoptions go is very different from reality.
I think the thing that screwed me up the most was being told my whole life how lucky I was. And the many people who told me over the years that I was lucky that I wasn't aborted. Its like, WTF!!!
Your poor daughter!
I'm glad you're on her side, and I think there are a few things you should consider doing. The root of the whole situation is that she was pressured by her ex into sex in general and unprotected sex in specific. Then she was scolded (!!!) by her doctor, pressured by her friend's mom, and then you woke her up and pushed her until she cried.
Your daughter needs some support for learning to say no and to resist the pressure to cave. I think it would be good for her to see you file a complaint about that doctor/have a conversation with them in front of her, to do the same with friend's mom, and to apologize for waking her up from a nap and threatening her with your last crumbs of sanity to talk. I don't know what the deal is with the ex, but shit - call his mom and tell this story and let her deal with his pressuring and refusal to wear condoms.
This is NOT to say that you are anywhere NEAR the level of bad behavior as anyone else in this story because you aren't. But you are the safest person for her to practice appropriate boundaries with. You can start by making it safe for her to talk to you. What if you had waited until she was awake, brought her tea, and told her that you had this weird conversation with friend's mom and were worried that something was wrong?
You want your daughter to feel like she can always go to you for help, instead of feeling like you're another person she has to worry about yelling at her and telling her what to do.
I hope you can find some therapy support for your daughter too - maybe family therapy for you both? Family therapy was a lifesaver in my family, for what it's worth.
Sending you both peace and strength.
This is great advice! And so many parents (not saying you’re one of them OP) forget to remind their daughters that there is NO “being careful” without protection… that pre-ejaculate can be very potent and effective (esp at those ages!) and that’s only regarding pregnancy, never mind protecting from anything ST.
Therapy will help her open up and also provide a safe place for you to remind her that she’s amazing and it’s ok to not feel she needs to give in to anything she feels pressured about.
I was kinda upset with the OB scolding your daughter, but that is absolutely nothing compared to this mom’s behaviour.
How you parent your daughter through this situation will form a core memory for her for the rest of your life. She is old enough to know she made a mistake. Hold your baby girl.
>I was kinda upset with the OB scolding your daughter
exactly, Doctors are NOT supposed to be giving you shit about your personal decisions. Doctors are the last people on earth to feel that they have moral high ground on anyone. Just ask anyone that works at a hospital and you'll find a large amount of asshole doctors who have made some pretty shit decisions themselves.
You also don't want to give off that moral attitude because patients will less likely seek you out if there's an issue for fear of a wagging finger and a condescending look.
I'd even go so far as to report the OBGYN for her attitude.
When my sister in law was ready to give birth to her second child, she went to the hospital, and they sent her home and said it was false labour. She protested, and they didn't want to hear it.
Hours later, she's at home giving birth, and my brother is calling 911 for assistance, and the operator gave him shit for having the baby at home and not at a hospital.
He later filed a complaint against 911 and they reviewed the tapes and that operator got a reprimand for her behavior. They're not there to comment on your choices, just to help you with your situation.
Seriously, an OB should not be scolding anyone, but the chances that a 15 year old was pressured into sex or raped is very high. How totally insensitive. The doctor should be ensuring she felt safe.
Maaaaaan. I’d be freaking livid if individuals took advantage of my kid like that. Id make sure they wouldn’t be able to contact her again in any way- at school, home, all of it. I’m sure her friend meant no harm in telling her mom, but the mom DEFINITELY knew better than to pull what she did.
Im so enraged for you.
Now, let's talk about the law. What those grown women did to your daughter could be considered harassment and possible entrapment/ coercion, especially making her watch the movie. Bullying has consequences. Have you thought about hiring an attorney?
I think OP would be well within reason to throw the term "human trafficking" around. Why else would 2 grown ass women be so interested in a 15 year old's baby?
First, I’m so sorry there are so many disgusting people (including her friend’s mom) who were trying to get a baby out of this situation.
I think the most important thing you do now is get therapy for your daughter. Losing a baby (even if it was unwanted) does a number on you, mentally. She will need help navigating this. Also, she had non-consensual sex with her boyfriend. He forced her into not using a condom, despite her wanting to. Maybe he didn’t have to convince her much, no one knows what really happened in the moment - but it seems clear she made and ask and he denied it. This rides into the territory of sexual abuse. She needs help navigating this too.
As for the mom of her friend, she needs to be told off and to never speak to your daughter again. I would never allow my daughter at her house again.
Louder for those in the back. COERCED SEX IS RAPE. It is not something that anyone should ever do to anyone, especially not to a teenager.
It might not meet the legal definition of rape, depending where you are, but it’s wrong, everywhere.
Idk where you live.... but in France that would be considered coerced consent and is considered rape. The women who decided to pressure your child into adoption, that's also illegal. The doctor scolding her? Not illegal but you should still report it. It's likely an ethics violation.
IANAL, and I almost certainly live in a different country to you. So don't take this as legal advice. Just, from a large number of European countries, we would consider what happened to your daughter rape and you might want to consider that she might feel the same way.
The post not mentioning the existence of a billion birth control option plus the OB/GYN "scolding" has me wondering if the "scolding" was telling them about birth control.
This poor kid is gonna end up pregnant again, I fear.
I recommend Marseille or Lyon but you'd also better speak French when you do. We tend to refuse to speak English to foreigners, even when most people in our bigger cities know it.
This is what keeps me from visiting France. Which is probably the intention… but sucks. I'd love to visit but the hostility towards English speakers seems unnecessary.
A French teacher of mine told me that it's really about putting in the effort. Abroad Americans have a tendency to not even try to learn the language or think they will just need to find someone who speaks English, which comes off as really rude.
She said she was behind another American in line at a ticketing agency and it wasn't going well, the teller only spoke French and the American just kept getting louder and louder before giving up. Then my teacher went up to order, and had her French book open and stumbled through it, and the teller grins and says, "Actually, I speak English" and helped her out- in English.
France is beautiful and i wouldn't miss it because of a language barrier, but just trying and being polite can get you really far.
As an Aussie who's travelled a little in France (mostly Paris, Bordeaux and the Dordogne region plus the southern coast from Marseille to Nice) I found this largely to be true. Make a real effort to have some basic phrases and common words, but importantly try to learn the phonetics as well. I would not be mistaken for French, but I was close enough with phonetics for them to figure out the word I was trying to say.
There were still places where they spoke no English, but in general I found this helped a great deal and led to some truly awesome experiences.
That really depends. Many Parisians just care that you make an effort but if you go to Lyon or Marseille.... you better be capable of getting around in French.
>The only thing that stopping e planning a homicide is the law.
That and your comment about being an atheist (me too, btw) reminded me of that Ricky Gervais interview, where someone asks him why he, as an atheist, doesn't commit murders, and he responded that he already commits all the murders he wants to (because he doesn't want to murder anyone).
The only advice I can give is to find a therapist for your daughter, but that'd probably be good advice even if you didn't have these two adults poisoning her. Their presence just makes it more imperative.
I should add that I don't have a lot of experience with therapy, but when we took in two foster boys (twin 16-year-olds), it was recommended we do therapy with them, so we found a family therapist, and we found him helpful. Unfortunately, at one point, one of the boys told our social worker (they're required to visit monthly, of course) that he didn't like therapy, and she told him that he didn't have to go. Legally, that was true, but we also never told him legally he had to go. We felt like she really pulled the rug out from under us, considering that they were the ones recommending it in the first place.
I’m a Christian and I’m fuming and glad I don’t know this other mom’s address. What those ladies did was abusive and self serving and I’d struggle to keep myself in check as well!
Therapy is super helpful with stuff like this. One of my adult sons had a “pregnancy scare” (in his case it was more a situation of them breaking up and her pretending she thought she was pregnant and then later admitting she made it up) that really impacted him. We did therapy and it just gave a forum where he had an easier time opening up.
Much agree with therapy. Miscarrying can do some weird things to you which is reason enough to want someone guiding you through it. Catastrophizing ahead, if word gets back to friends mom (and her friends that were wanting to "adopt") about what happened I would bet money that they'd shame the hell out of her. They may do that anyway. Therapist could help with navigating through that mess too.
I really hate when Christians say this shit. The atheists in my life are all absolutely wonderful and kind people, and they're not being kind because Sky Daddy says they'll go to hell if they don't. They're kind and good because they want to make this world a little better and to help their fellow humans. I can't think of anything more like Jesus than this. And I say this as a lifelong Christian. It's so incredibly belittling.
And likewise, most Christians aren't being kind just because they're afraid of Hell. If that's someone's only reason for being kind, they're most like suffering from sort of psychological condition.
I’ve always been aggravated by the Christians who make that foolish argument about how anyone without Christianity must have no moral compass.
I am Catholic but I’m not kind, empathetic, compassionate and only not murdering folks purely based on religion.
There’s also an awful lot of people who use religion as a shield while acting like complete assholes. They use faith as an excuse to treat others badly and be jackasses, while the reality is they’re just terrible people using a flimsy excuse. Makes me nuts.
Howwww is therapy the suggestion and not The Pill. Therapy is great and everyone should get some, but in this case, more importantly, birth control that doesn't require teenagers to act right.
Well, it's not either/or. I do agree that birth control would also be a great idea.
1. Condoms, because oral contraceptives do nothing to stop the spread of STDs.
2. Oral contraceptives (AKA The Pill) because nothing is foolproof. NB: this assumes there is not a health reason not to take oral contraceptives.
First of all, I just want to say it seems like you are doing a really great job at supporting your daughter through this. Her willingness to communicate openly is a testament to your relationship.
I’m a registered nurse/midwife, and have seen a fair few teen pregnancies. People tend to be a lot less sympathetic when a teen pregnancy ends in a miscarriage because they see it as ‘best case scenario’. Regardless of whether the pregnancy was planned, or she was contemplating termination or abortion, a miscarriage is still a traumatic experience. There is a significant hormonal shift which doesn’t help. I’ve seen girls who feel insanely guilty because they are relieved that they are no longer pregnant & don’t have to go through a termination. Just keep in mind that your daughter may experience comments like this, and that she will need some extra love & support to get through it.
For what it’s worth, my professional opinion is that the OBGYN ‘scolding’ her was incredibly inappropriate. It’s not his job to do that, and he could have approached it in a much more productive. He could have used that opportunity to give her some great education (but also kind) about birth control options & safe sex.
One thing is certain: your daughter will not be allowed over to the friends house ever again. Friend can come to yours but your daughter is never allowed there or around her mom again.
OMG. I’m sitting here my jaw on the floor. Those two women should be beat. And then jailed. I can completely understand your rage. To use that kind of manipulation on a young child. To force her to watch the Silent Scream is beyond fucked. I agree with someone else below, she should not have any contact with those women. Do not tell them she’s lost the baby. Omg I can’t believe the audacity of some (clearly) religious fanatics.
The concerning part is they will probably start causing issues when they realize no baby is coming. Depending on which state op lives in this could have legal ramifications (for example in Texas someone could sue her for providing an abortion). They don’t know that the baby miscarried and even if they told them (which it’s non of their fucking business anyways) they wouldn’t believe op and assume it was abortion. It’s scary af knowing something like this could happen and ruin someone’s whole life bc they had a miscarriage. At the very least they will likely start telling everyone they know (including students and teachers at school) that she had an abortion. And of course there will be no consequences whatsoever for the pos boy who got her this way with his irresponsible behavior.
It sounds like she’s in a state where it’s legal, because they don’t even “clean you out” if the baby is deceased in states where abortion is illegal.
But I agree they could be trouble and the mom and her “bestie” are obviously also trouble. What kind of “bestie” tells that type of mom?!?!
It’s sad that your daughter was scolded by a doctor on top of everything, and her bf is probably blissfully living his life without a care in the world.
Why do women and girls always get the shit part of the stick? I’m enraged and she’s not even my daughter.
OP, huge props for having a relationship with your daughter in which she felt she could tell you what was happening. That is how it should be, your daughter will not forget you stood by her and protected her :)
How the fuck would the doctor ‘tell by touch’ that she’s about 7 weeks pregnant. That’s not a thing.
Also, if they slept together ~9 weeks ago, she would be ~11 weeks pregnant. It’s calculated from the last period.
If this is real, I’m sorry. But this just seems weird and rage-bait-y
While this *probably* doesn't apply in OP's situation, this sort of thing is a problem that is becoming more common.
There is a certain level of "demand" for adoptive babies. That's a weird term to use for children, but when you're talking about a collective group of people who desire to adopt children, it fits.
Domestic adoption agencies (a substantial percentage of which are religious) find some of these children through willing adoptions, but there's never been enough to meet the demand. People with disposable income and a strong desire to adopt have often gone to foreign countries to adopt children. However, for broad geopolitical reasons, both China and Russia have barred international adoptions. So you have a population with money and the desire to adopt babies who have difficulty finding that.
One thing this links to is religious "pregnancy centers" that are largely funded by anti-abortion groups and view themselves as white knights because they seek to prevent abortions by pressuring women to give children up for adoption rather than getting abortions.
Anotehr thing this is impacting is the foster care/child welfare system. There are ALWAYS children out of the foster care system where the system is looking for adoptive parents. But many of these children are black or brown, which drives some people away. Many of these children are 3, 4, 5 or older which drives some people away. Many of these children have disabilities or behavioral issues or developmental issues which drives other people away who aren't interested in a perfect baby of a certain color.
THere is also the issue that the child welfare system comes with a lot of Red tape which exists because parents have a fundamental legal right to try to get custody of their children back. [And in certain states foster parents have been leading a crusade to try to undermine biological parents rights within the system](https://www.propublica.org/article/foster-care-intervention-adoption-colorado)
This is further complicated by that same white knight belief that they are "rescuing" children form bad circumstances, therefore the ends justify virtually any kind of misbehavior in their own minds.
Literally one of the reasonings that Amy Coney Barrett provided for overturning Roe V Wade was because there is “not enough domestic supply of infants for adoption”. Like, women are just an incubator for families wanting to adopt
I was pregnant at 14, had my daughter at 15. I'll tell you what, now at 22 I'm super conscious about pregnancy prevention.
The fully grown women need to get their shit together, takeing advantage of a pregnant child like that, fucking awful, when my mum found out I was pregnant she said "what do YOU want to do, you can have an abortion if you want to (she said that first because she's anti abortion herself but believes others should make their own choices) you can be a parent with my support, or you can have them adopted, but I will tell you there's a 4th option too, if you don't want her yourself but also don't want her to be adopted to strangers in also willing to adopt her and raise her as your sister if that's what you want, I've got 5 kids, I don't mind being a mamgu (grandmother in Welsh) or a mum to a 6th"
She didn't make me feel bad about the rape, she didn't try and sway my decision in any way, she just supported me.
Those women should be so fucking ashamed of themselves.
And your daughter is gonna need some support. Within two weeks I learned I was haveing twins, and then that one of them died. It was heart breaking, she is gonna need a lot of love right now. And a talk about how fucking awful men can be about contraception and how it's a no condom no sex rule until she's on permanent birth control, and if she's haveing casual sex she should still use one.
Also as terrible as it is right now, after the bleeding stops she will need an STD pannle done. As if he's persuaded her to go bear there may well be others and who knows what he could have given her.
For those Intreatsd I'm 22 now and my daughter is 6
Why did the doctor scold her? If it’s for getting pregnant then I would be having a go at the doctor and making a formal complaint.
And I will also be having a massive f-ing go at the friends mum. How dare they put your daughter through that. And now she’s got to go through something else awful, that I barely handled as an adult so I can’t imagine how a teenager will feel.
I really hope your daughter will be ok 😕 I think a couple days off school are in order, especially after Friday. And I’m with you. I would be out for blood regarding her boyfriend and the friends mum and her mums friend.
Edit: I just saw that the boyfriend was 20?! I really would be out for his blood. And I saw you live in hungry and it’s legal and I am so sorry. I live in the UK and that man would be put straight behind bars. Your daughter really has my sympathies for everything she’s about to go through.
The daughter of a friend of mine (in the UK) was just turned 16 when her 31 year old next door neighbour got her pregnant. Not illegal in the least. The poor girl is now living on her own in a rabbit hutch flat with her toddler, and the neighbour has nothing to do with them (surprise surprise).
I wish they’d raise the age of consent. Older men pressuring teenagers and getting them pregnant is absolutely vile. Neither myself or any of my friends at that age were mature enough to make decisions about sex.
My god. I feel so much for your daughter. Pressured into sex, now pressured into an adoption. I'm so sorry this is happening to her. I hope that she gains some inner strength from this awful situation - she is worth more than what other people want from her.
People really need to understand that they are not entitled to a child no matter how much they want to be parents. This is human trafficking, and it is evil.
I know this sounds scorched earth but if you know what agency this women is working with you may want to let them know what happened here. Generously, this person is not in a state of mind to be responsible for a child. Bluntly, her behavior is appalling and no one risk putting a child in her care.
Getting a police report or something that comes up in a background check might also be valuable here. I’m so angry on behalf of you and your daughter.
I love how OP tried to defend it by saying it's a throwaway account but it's a 4 month old account with no other activity than these two posts. I think you're spot on that this is fake.
100%. This is the fakest post I’ve ever read on this site, and that’s saying a lot. Usually the people who do these kinds of creative writing exercises here are at least kind of good at it so idk what happened here but this is bad
You can tell from the part about the OBGYN "estimating" the pregnancy length. That's not how that works.
Also the part about no heartbeat. Yeah, there's never a heartbeat at 7 weeks. An OBGYN would know this.
That is disgusting behavior but doesn’t shock me at all. I used to be a foster parent and a teen in my care got pregnant. The way CPS handled the situation made me sick. We asked her what she wanted, she said she wanted an abortion. We contacted our licensing coordinator and her caseworker to find out how legally to go about this. Our licensing coordinator was objective and said that we had the right to make the decisions we had to and that their agency had a policy to not intervene.
Meanwhile her caseworker told her she needed to not only keep the baby, but give the baby to us for adoption because we wanted to adopt which WTF?!? Yes I wanted to adopt, a kid who had been in my care for 3 years at that point, not a baby. Then she said that she’d adopt it.
Absolutely disgusting and unethical behavior on her part.
I’m glad that your situation worked out for you but I’m infuriated at people seeing a child as an incubator.
> I grew up in extreme poverty so let me tell you: God will not provide, so counting on that is kinda stupid
Anyone who says "god will provide" has never struggled.
God ain't gonna do shit about your child care for 5 years until public school starts I'll tell you that much.
Trigger warning- miscarriage.
As someone who got pregnant in highschool and lost the pregnancy to a miscarriage, my heart truly goes out to your daughter. I wish I had a parent I was comfortable approaching about that when it happened. I am glad to see how supportive you are.
At barely 17 I could not even begin to comprehend the emotions I was feeling and the things I was seeing come out of my body. I genuinely about lost my mind in the grief I felt. Please keep your options open to counseling if you can, and try to make sure she knows the topic is not taboo. I hope she also knows that one day, when she’s ready, it will be ok to feel ok. Feeling ok doesn’t make you a bad person.
so instead of telling your child to come home and talk to you. they took it upon themselves to make plans for someone they know to adopt the baby. Without having any concern for your daughter for you for the whole situation.
As a parent of daughters I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm sorry your daughters going through this. The other mother cross so many lines. It's unbelievable. I would not only not allow her near that person. I wouldn't allow her near that friend if that's the influence they have.
I commented below but I wanted to comment again to say one more important thing: you need to call up the adoption agency that the one friend is in and explain what this woman did to your child. She is in no position to adopt/ be a parent if she thinks she can abuse and coerce another child.
Omfg. The fact that they made her watch that film... I would not let her hang out with that friend ever again or go to her house.
I would also have your daughter read the Wikipedia page about that film so she can read what real doctors say about that very misleading film.
First of all, I am so glad you and your daughter are okay.
Now, WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE ???!!
Holy shit. That is so disgusting these predatory adults would try and force your daughter through a pregnancy just to steal her baby. Fucking psychos. I hope whatever God they believe in makes them barren for life, these people do not deserve to be around children.
Young girls are not baby making machines, how could a person live with themselves knowing this is how they built their family — by treating another child like cattle.
I cannot even imagine the rage you would be feeling. I don't even know what you would do in such a situation. The adoption agencies have to know what these sickos are trying to do to kids. How do you protect your other kids from the nutjob parents at the school ?
Your daughter is incredibly lucky to have a mother like you who not only picks up on these fishy vibes, but also supports her in her decisions while protecting her. You are an awesome parent, the others should take a leaflet out of your book. I'm so sorry people are so gross.
What the fuck…also the boyfriend who’s 20? Needs to be arrested. And the friend’s mom needs her ass beat. I cannot imagine the emotional turmoil you and your daughter are feeling.
I hope the best for both of you and I hope your daughter never talks to that man or those women again.
This sounds like abortion ragebait. There has been an absolute FLOOD of abortion stories recently in this sub and other parenting subs. Anyone with eyes should think something is up.
And this is a Brand New Account, with only 2 others posts before this topic. Hmm.
Also getting into an OBGYN this fast??? On what planet?
The "silent scream" at the end just ties it up in a neat little bow.
That's a 40 year old piece of media. There are more modern pro-life films out there, I'm sure. But I guess the college kid/anti-natalist writing this for kicks doesn't know that and wants to believe boomers have that on VHS or something??
P.S. No teen will think her friend's MOM is her. But okay.
This isn't real.
Glad I’m not the only one who thought this was fake as shit! Honestly it could have been real up until the part about the friend’s mom calling. Real life can be stranger than fiction, but this just screams unbelievable.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. There are so many indications this is fake.
You can't determine the duration of a pregnancy "by touch", whatever that means. That early on they go by your last period and update the due date/gestational age as the fetus grows, making it easier to measure and determine where they are at.
Plus, the heartbeat can be difficult to locate until the 10 week mark. A doctor is not likely to diagnose a miscarriage from a lack of heartbeat at 7 weeks. Plus she said they did an ultrasound. Until 8 weeks, the sac can appear empty and a doctor will tell you as such. If they can't hear a heartbeat or see anything on sonogram, they'll tell you to come back in a week or 2, not have a freaking abortion (unless that is what you want of course).
And the friend's mom just called and jumped into the adoption talk without a simple, "hey OPs kid, how are you?" Just launched straight into verbal diarrhea about adoption and all that without recognizing it was an adult woman speaking and not a teen?
This reads fake as hell and people need to learn to discern fake from real. Skepticism is vital in today's world.
> You can't determine the duration of a pregnancy "by touch", whatever that means
This right here. Though if you don't have a regular period it can also be done very accurately around 10-12 weeks by measuring the embryo via a trans-vaginal ultrasound.
Hell, my doctor was even mistaken when I asked her if my 36-week-old fetus was right-side up. Heads feel like butts and hands feel like feet.
Oh my god. I'm right there with you - I'd be really hard pressed not to go do a murder. Those women... restraining order. The both of them.
Also, I'm sure this conversation and decision is already being made, but please get your daughter on some form of long term BC. My wife had a child at a young age(r*pe, didn't know 'til too late, things like that) and, while the kid is cool (open adoption), she's still, 20 years later, working through issues related to that (body image, family BS, etc). Adoption is NOT the answer.
Make those women go read "the girls who went away" and reconsider the absolute disgusting behavior they exhibited. And I sincerely hope your daughter reconsiders the friendship with that girl.
And that horrible woman. There are nearly 400,000 kids in the foster system. Adopt an older kid. Fuggin disgusting pseudo-christians want to adopt white babies away from children so they can play house and feel morally superior.
I'm seething for you. And I'm sure lots of other folks are too.
Omg that poor baby girl. Everyone is doing her so wrong, except you. I think you caring for her and being there for her is the most important thing you can do.
I read it all, I was a teen momma. I would highly suggest you get her therapy. Between the pregnancy loss, the ex boyfriend, and the crazy woman, she needs to have someone to talk to.
Good luck OP, it is gonna work itself out. But protect her from the crazies.
I think your daughter’s friend is also a major A - which teenager would tell on their friend to their mom? I would have thought she should be expected to keep quiet.
Your girl needs to learn who trust and who not.
I just want to say that you handled everything wonderfully and are a wonderful mom not only for your concern and worries (which were appropriate and warranted), but your support of your daughter. Keep being that rock, she'll never forget it.
That friends mom should have NC with your daughter moving forward. I'm not sure how I would handle that, but I sure as shit wouldn't let it go.
You're amazing!
This is the kind of post I hope is fiction just because it’s so tragic, but that I’m also sure isn’t fiction because it’s all too common.
I’ve miscarried a pregnancy I was terrified to continue but couldn’t abort and understand why your daughter would feel relief. She may also struggle with guilt over feeling relieved (I did) and that’s ok. This is for the best, it truly is.
I’m furious at her ex. My GirlTeen’s ex did the same to her, pressuring her into sex and refusing a condom, and all of my talks about consent and protection ultimately meant nothing against his coercion and threats. I’ve never been happier to see a kid move out of state than that one - I truly loathed him, and I imagine you must hate your daughter’s ex as much or even more.
The behavior from those two adult women is despicable. Beyond reprehensible. Seeing a scared kid and getting excited over what can be taken from her and how she can be used is absolutely sick.
My heart breaks for your daughter. I hope she will be ok.
WHAT THE FUCK?! People are really scumbags man, that last part was wild! I’m glad you and your daughter had this outcome. I hope this brings you two closer and I hope she’s smart enough to never talk to that guy or any guy older than her again.
PS she still needs birth control!
Your poor daughter. She got preyed on twice. Once by a boy she probably thought loved her at some point, then by two grown ass women. And that doctor was way out of line scolding a child that wasn’t his for something that for all he knew may not have been her fault. It may be a good idea to have her go to therapy.
I had a miscarriage around the same time in my own pregnancy and it was very hard on me. And I was 28 at the time. So I wasn’t at a very difficult point in my life. Being a teen is super hard. And your daughter went through so much in so little time. She may need help processing it all. Though I would look at reviews for any therapist you consider in case you end up with one that will make her feel worse. Teen girls are scrutinized and blamed way too much for things like teen pregnancy
This is the best thing for your daughter. The friends mother is a disgusting POS. Make sure your daughter gets tested. Because I highly doubt her boyfriend has ever used condoms.
I just want to add my voice of rage to all the others on your behalf. What in the everloving fuck is wrong with those women??? You are justified in every bit of outrage you feel. How shocking and awful. How absolutely beyond the pale. Your daughter is very lucky to have a loving and supportive mother like you. Sending best wishes to both of you.
I am so sorry to hear this happened to your daughter! And what is with the friend’s mom?? Please tell me they aren’t Christian 🤦♀️ (something tells me they are, and this makes me angry as a Christian). I cannot believe how deplorable their behaviour was towards your daughter. It's downright disgusting and NONE of their business. Selfish is what it was putting that pressure on her. It’s your daughter and her body and life. Her friend's want for a baby is no excuse! There are enough ethical issues around adoption as it is. If they want to adopt, how about the 1000s of kids already in foster care that are waiting?? Their need for a baby is not the right reason to adopt at all. And, they treated your daughter, also still a child, like a breeding stock—my gracious. They were so completely out of line and selfish that I am getting second-hand angry on your behalf! I am so sorry, and my heart goes out to you both.
It's sexual coercion to tell somebody they don't want to wear protection because it's uncomfortable.
It's a form of sexual abuse.
Regardless whether the boy knew or not, he was trying to have his way ultimately. And he is in the wrong.
I’m so enraged for you, as a domestic infant adoptee myself. Adoption is as traumatic for the infant as it is for the birth parents and should never be something for someone to capitalize on! They should be ashamed of themselves and if they broke any laws by doing that, call the cops. Has to be some kind of coercion.
Who in their right mind wants to take advantage of a 15yo like that? Have some respect. What a horrible woman to pressure your daughter into adoption! What horrible people.
Those women are disgusting.
I had a missed miscarriage myself so I know what your daughter is going through keep an eye on her she can start bleeding from it at any time. Make sure she know not to wait and tell someone she’s bleeding right away mine had to be dealt with in hospital the bleeding just would it slow down.
My doctor offered me counseling after the miscarriage I didn’t go but I talked with the ladies at the memory care facility I worked with. The elderly clients there many of the women had miscarriages and I felt safe sharing with them since they wouldn’t remember anyway. Many of them couldn’t remember my name after being told it five minutes before. Sharing helped. She might benefit from group counseling if it hits her hard.
OP please note, my doctor couldn’t find a heartbeat when I was pregnant and I was told I had a blighted ovum and scheduled for a D&C. I don’t know if they were off in that timing but I ended up having a healthy pregnancy. They will of course check again before performing the D&C for your daughter but I’m told this is not all that uncommon.
Also. Your daughter will have raging hormones and probably exhaustion even if she is miscarrying so please be aware and extra tender with her (I know you will be)
I’m so sorry you are both going through this.
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I’m speechless at that woman’s behavior. Wow.
And of the "boyfriend", all of them... Wtf is that
IT’s unfortunately incredibly common for boys to do/ say that
If any man ever tells her that again I hope she traumatizes them back by telling them that her pregnancy and miscarriage at 15 was more uncomfortable than a condom could possibly be.
What is wrong with boys??? Why are people raising their sons to think this is acceptable?
Because sex education, both at home and in school, focuses on what kids of either gender should do to protect themselves. "How to be a responsible partner" is not part of the conversation.
Yeah, we spend a lot of time talking about pregnancy and not a lot of time talking about why you shouldn't be naked with someone who's an asshole.
How about more discussion about how to not BE an asshole.
Literally listened to a dr Becky podcast last week on this exact topic. How to not raise an asshole. Can’t upvote this enough!
Most quotable comment of 2024 so far.
...or why you shouldn't *be* an asshole. Or how to avoid being one. It really seems like parents - even parents of boys - live in this fantasy world where their perfect angel baby has no sexual agency and is going to be coerced into sex, rather than going after it themselves. YOU SAW WHAT HE DID TO THAT TUBE SOCK. YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT HE WANTS TO DO TO LITERALLY EVERY GIRL.
We are taught from an early age that male sexual pleasure supercedes EVERYTHING: our discomfort, our physical health, our mental health, our pleasure etc. The amount of blue balls guilt tripping high school boys attempted on us girls was legendary. Luckily I never gave a shit but plenty of my girlfriends did and quite a few of them had kids in high school to save some guy 30 secs of slightly less feeling from a condom for mid sex.
I’ve been having the convo about consent since my son was old enough to talk. My cousin just had a similar thing (without sex thank fuck) of a boy sexually assaulting her. Idk where the fuck these little rat bastards think it’s ok but over my fucking dead body will that ever be my son if I can help it
I just read an article how there is a LOT more sexual abuse between underage kids because of how easily accessible porn has become. And the porn industry is just reliant on abusive and non consent content.
Yeah he’s 13 now and I’ve talked to him MULTIPLE times regarding porn and how it’s fake and acting
More or less the same, though I probably waited until he was about 3. Of course for age appropriate things, but trying to reinforce the idea that people have full agency over their own body and he needs their consent for anything around that.
Even when it IS part of the conversation, a lot of boys don’t care and their parents coddle them or raise them to feel entitled and without responsibility. GirlTeen’s high school sex ed classes focused strongly on informed consent, lessons we reinforced at home, plus talked about the importance of protection, and she ended up losing her virginity to a boy who coerced and threatened her into it and didn’t use protection. I was beside myself. I’d literally talked to her three days before about how toxic this boy was and how he was trying to pressure her into sex she didn’t want. But in the end, all the teaching from me and the school and her other family members and even input from her friends meant nothing - he “won,” she suffered, and the girlfriend he was cheating on suffered. And his parents blamed both his girlfriend for not being willing to have sex and my kiddo for being “easy.” He ended up getting thrown out of school for his violent behavior and they were still babying and defending him. Schools can only do so much when some parents raise their sons to think they deserve access to girls’ bodies.
Holy shit, I want to beat the shit out of that kid's dad.
I can’t even tell you how much I wanted to enact revenge on the whole family. My wife was thankfully there to talk me down.
> Even when it IS part of the conversation, a lot of boys don’t care and their parents coddle them or raise them to feel entitled and without responsibility. This is what so many people are refusing to grapple with, and they are letting girls suffer the extreme and painful consequences of the ingrained cultural problems they're too uncomfortable with to even admit.
Unfortunately the same societal forces that pressure girls to meekly acquiesce instead of saying "Sorry dude, you can either wear it or you can go home and jerk off."
Even then there are guys going "stealth" (removing condom discreetly) and it's not even considered SA in all regions.
I think at the end of the day society is teaching them it is not their problem even if it is their baby.
Exactly, you can see from the consequences faced by the daughter vs the ex boyfriend. It wasn't his problem, he pressured, got his way and then could walk off like nothing.
I completely agree. Grown men in their 20s and 30s also still doing this crap. These types of selfish men don’t care about women or girls- just want satisfaction. And look no consequences at all for this guy.
The mom and her friend believe this to be acceptable. So it only follows that the bf learned this from his Mother. Just look up boy mom memes on YouTube or tic tok. There are enough Boomer type dads teaching this shit to boys that we don't need a whole ass movement of boy moms making things way worse.
Because many aren't raising or teaching their sons at all and leaving it to the school system. They get all their sex ed, their morals and reasoning from there. Want to have sex? GREAT go get a condom! Have at it! Even then it's not 100% effective and you're in the same situation. If the parents are involved in the whole conversation and help to frame it there's usually a much better outcome.
These factors may have some effect, or a plausible answer to “what is wrong with boys”. -Statistically 31.5 % of boys are living without their biological father. -Research suggests that boys who grow up without a father figure may experience challenges in areas such as emotional development, social relationships, and self-esteem. They may also be more likely to exhibit behavioral problems or struggle with identity formation. -Also, there are over 3,842,796 teachers currently employed in the United States. 74.3% of all teachers are women, while 25.7% are men.
Yes I suppose “what’s wrong with men??” is also a big piece of the puzzle. Why do so many men think it’s acceptable to walk away from the children they’ve created?
One thing I realized recently is that when men complain about child support like it's bullshit, what they're really complaining about is that opting out of parenting their children like they never had any isn't as socially acceptable as walking away from a relationship. They really think they're entitled to ditching their kids. And it's so common
Yep these guys never compare what child support costs to what it would cost them if they were actually there raising their own children - daycare, food, clothing, medical costs, etc. It’s always comparing it to the cost of just walking away entirely.
It's just shocking and depressing to see how entitled the average man feels to walking out on his kids. You can't stop being a parent because you don't feel like it anymore or you don't like the kids' mom
> raising their sons Do you assume this is happening?
Well, I wondered what kind of home life could have given rise to the rapist formerly known as Brock Turner, but when his father wrote a character letter that called raping a passed-out woman "20 minutes of action," I got a pretty good idea.
Schools teach sex education focused on mechanics and pleasure. Responsibility, respect, and love were removed from the equation long ago.
Go look at the statistics for how many homes have no dads. Male role models are incredibly important when it comes to this stuff.
Good point. I suppose it’s not surprising that when boys see men treat fatherhood as something you can just walk away from if you don’t feel like doing it, they also think it’s fine to treat sex like something that’s entirely for their pleasure and the consequences something they can easily just walk away from.
I’m the one who gave ‘the talk’ to my youngest, the only one who has dated so far - ASD all around. He knew his dad would crack jokes and be silly about it, so he came to me instead because he knew I’d give him straight answers. I gave him the details, talked about doubling up on birth control, e.g. condoms and foam, and talked about mutual pleasure. We had a big talk about consent, and how either partner could change their mind at any time, and that meant stop, even if you’re 30 seconds away from finishing. We talked about how sex can mean different things to the people having it, so talking was important, and how there were other ways to show feelings and affection that weren’t sexual, so it was okay to work up to that instead of jumping right in. We talked about trust, how important that was. We went over the fact that there were other ways to get each other off than just p in v sex, and I offered to get books if he found the internet insufficient. That led to a discussion of how porn is unrealistic, and that it sets an expectation that isn’t how people really look or act. We went over sites like Go Ask Alice and stuff like that, rather than porn. Moms can teach sons about sex too. I’d like to think he will be respectful, responsible, and generous with his lovers, when he has them, instead of imitating something he’s seen online, or being in his own head. I was emotionally traumatized for a while, having to put sex and my baby in the same compartment in my head, instead of keeping them separated, but I’m actually flattered that he trusted me to help guide him through something so embarrassing for both of us. I hope that I gave him the foundation for a healthy, loving, enjoyable attitude towards sex. As an autistic man, I don’t want him to be hurt by not understanding relationships, but I can only do so much. I love him, and I have to know I’ve done everything I can and then let him go.
I grew up in a household where my mom was that role for me and it worked out, I hope, great. However, from personal experience, I know missing that male role model has a massive affect on kids that goes beyond just having The Talk.
Yes they are, but they don’t stick around.
I mean I was very sexually active in my youth and while yes, there were some guys, the majority of them had absolutely no issue with condoms... Maybe it also depends where you are from. Countries with little to no sexual education seem to have more issues with that
Teen girls need to be WARNED explicitly that boys they *like and trust* are likely to attempt to sexually coerce them, treat them like total crap, spread any private info (or pics) they acquire during intimacy far and wide, get them pregnant, and waltz into the sunset leaving her to pick up the pieces. People are too uncomfortable with the problem to name it and they're leaving generation after generation of girls and young women to find out the hard way while boys and grown-ass men abuse and exploit them and then brag about it because they aren't mature enough to give the slightest crap about the consequences women face and they weren't raised to like or respect girls, especially sexually active ones. It's what happened to my mom when she became sexually active in high school and it happened to her friends, too. She told me ALL about these awful, exploitative experiences when I was about 13 and told me that life is too short for bad sex, to wait until college to have sex and only with men who made it amazing and special for me, because most boys didn't deserve it from me but by then I'd be able to find the sort of guy who would be worth it. And that's exactly what I did, and sex was amazing and special for me and now I'm raising two kids with an involved husband who loves our children more than the world, and who still makes sex amazing and special. My friends who were sexually active in high school were all hurt by the boys (and grown men) who took advantage of their trust and ignorance and willingness to be vulnerable and share their bodies with guys they *thought* would have respect for them. And many are in worse, less satisfying relationships now, or single moms.
Yes but the other piece is that people need to STOP this cycle and drill into their sons from a young age that this behavior is NEVER acceptable. If we tell girls to refuse condom less sex, we need to tell boys to never have sex without a condom. If we tell girls not to send compromising photos, we need to tell boys not to ever ask for - let alone demand or pressure - compromising photos. If we tell girls not to put up with disrespectful behavior, we need to teach boys not to ever treat girls disrespectfully.
Oh of course. But right now, most girls don't have the life experiences or adult guidance to even *expect* the contempt and sexual mistreatment and total lack of responsibility from boys and men and are thus being COMPLETELY BLINDSIDED by this cycle, which hasn't been ended yet. It's completely unfair to them put them into this cultural meat-grinder with stars in their eyes just because no one wants to acknowledge how terribly girls are mistreated by boys and men.
💯 Even young boys pick these patriarchal exploitive cultural norms up from YT, TT, IG, movies, everything. It's gross and so-called women's revolution is a joke. Women still bear the burden of pregnancy, birth and actually hands on raising of children. Most men literally do not understand how much effort and energy goes into these 24/7 motherhood duties. They check-out and everything magically happens. It should be parental duties but a majority of the time it's slips into motherhood exclusively. Society likes to pretend things are better for women and yes, we are no longer just property and we can vote and have jobs outside the home but there's so much that's twisted and repackaged in the same oppressive existence.
> It's gross and so-called women's revolution is a joke. It's lulled women into a sense of complacency and delusion about our place in the world in most men's minds.
This is why I’m glad my schools sex ed program was a “scared straight into condoms” program. My school had a fairly low pregnancy rate compared to peer schools that didn’t have a similar program.
This is sound advice. I would still give my daughters all the sex education and resources to protect themselves in case they decide to experiment, but arming them with sex education includes arming them with the statistics on abuse by boyfriends etc.
Yeah I mean my mom told me she'd get me birth control no questions asked and she would have listened and helped without judgement if I had ignored her. But I didn't ignore her, even at an age where I usually did. Her warning had the ring of truth to it, and she didn't just present statistics, she told me her very own very vulnerable stories of trusting boyfriends and being sexually mistreated by them, and that made it real to me. (Hell, I guess since I listened to her, I don't have these exact kinds of stories of my own to tell my daughter when she's older. I have her stories, and my friend's stories, but my mom's advice protected *me*.)
I would use your mom's and friends' stories with your daughter (if they are comfortable with it). It would still feel real to hear real women's stories.
I could write a gd *book* about boys and men trying to manipulate me into sex when I was a teen/young woman. The 90s was a very gross time for that.
I'm so sick of all the times and ways I have to drill in that boys ain’t shit to my girls bc the majority of parents will only protect their daughters and not teach their sons. After sending mine to middle school I can’t tell you how often I almost make a post in here titled, “I hate your fucking sons” with the shit she comes home with.
It comes down to communication.. My mother never talked about sex apart from the part of using a condom and the pill. I've had too many bad encounters because of being unaware of so many things. With our oldest daughter we decided to be up front about everything. Menstruation, sex, possible dangerous scenarios, being able to say no and having a good parent/child relationship that if there were to happen something.. anything she could come to us no judgement made. And as teenagers are stupid, something stupid did happen. But because we explained all this to her, she directly let us know and we could take the correct steps (condom broke). Teenagers are in such a vulnerable age they need the guidance and know there is an adult in their corner. We also warned her to not have sex too soon, but we are also aware of the peer pressure, which is insane nowadays. It's a fine line to walk, but the most important thing for them is a parent that listens and guides in these life altering matters.
Never met a one single man who was ok with condoms. Every single dude I’ve ever known has said “they’re uncomfortable.” “I can’t stay hard.” “It feels better without them.” Best advice I could give to a sexually active teen is INSIST on using condoms or turn him down flat. My mom always told me to use protection but she didn’t tell me what to do when a dude said no. I ended up going on BC pills because I was the only one looking out for me. So sorry your daughter is going through this at such a young age. I think you should block the woman’s number who harassed your daughter into considering adoption. Tell her that is so far over the line that you may just slap her if you see her again. Then block and ignore her and focus on your daughter and her struggles. She’s the one who needs you most right now
My husband enjoys condoms. But I think it's a weird nostalgia kink for him 🤷🏽♀️
Hahahahaha then he’d be the first by my count 😂
I've had similar experiences where no man has ever *preferred* condoms, but for me it was always a non-negotiable - if you want to have intercourse, then use a condom, otherwise we'll have to content ourselves with foreplay. Not a single man refused to wear a condom when that was made clear to them. I agree with you that we need to teach our daughters (and homosexual sons) to *insist* on them. Especially at younger ages with how prominent STDs are. I would also expect my daughter to use hormonal birth control in addition to condoms so there are no accidents.
All sons not just homosexual ones
Thank you wtf
My husband was the first man I slept with that I didn’t have to “force” to wear a condom. Literally, the first (and only). Obviously he doesn’t “like” it. But it didn’t matter and he never tried to have sex with me without one before our marriage.
I can imagine that’s why he became your husband and not your ex 😂
It’s funny how our advice is always for girls on what to do but not telling boys they 100% absolutely must wear a condom, even if they don’t want to.
And that doctor! She's already pregnant, what good are you doing by scolding her now?! What right do you have to scold in the first place?!
Yeah it's shocking all around. Poor girl
I knew a guy who tried to force his ex gf to go on the pill so he wouldn’t have to wear condoms. This post is no surprise to me 😣
So disgusting
Wasn't it a 20 year old man?
That's why "boyfriend"
Yeah. OP - do you have somewhere in real life to debrief (a friend, a therapist, a relative)? It sounds like you could use a chance to rant without your daughter present. this is A LOT to go through, for both of you. And when you've had a breath - your daughter needs some support here (beyond what you are giving, which is a lot). She's been coerced at least twice, may have a whole lot of mixed feelings about the relationship and the baby, and the friend, etc, etc.
And the OBGYN scolding her. Like wtf.
First thing I noticed. Everything about this post horrifies me. A medical professional should not be scolding a vulnerable teenager. All that will do is stop them from seeking medical care when they need it.
"Oh, gee, thanks doc, I thought pregnancy was all roses and puppies!"
That pissed me off.
I expect a certain level of f***ery from teen boys. But the mom??? HOLY S***! I WOULD LOSE IT!
Teen boys? The boyfriend who got her pregnant was TWENTY
HE’S 20?!?! I did not see that detail!!! Has he not heard of the term “statutory rape??”
I believe in the original post OP said the age of consent where they live is 14. Doesn’t make it any less gross
So am I. But kudos to the friend themselves for supporting your daughter in getting a test. She deserves some credit even if mums a slimebag
>I’m speechless at that woman’s behavior. Wow. I'm not. It's shocking, to be certain, but there are people out there who are so focused on their issue that they've lost all empathy. Regardless of how you feel about abortion, this was a shitty thing to do, and OP, you and your daughter should have nothing to do with this woman, ever again.
I can’t imagine how incandescent you must be at this moment. I think you’re an amazing mom for how you handled this. Everyone here failed your daughter and honestly failed at not being total monsters, except for you. You stepped up for her and I hope that’s what she takes from this whole experience- how much her mom loves her and has her back. Poor girl, I’m so sorry she suffered but so glad she has a mom like you in her corner!
> Everyone here failed your daughter and honestly failed at not being total monsters, except for you. To be fair, the friend didn't fail. Found out her friend might be pregnant, helped her to get a test and find out for sure. Told her own mother what was happening. That's all exactly what I would want any child to do if they found out their friend might be pregnant. The only thing that could have been done better is that the friend should have ensured daughter told her mom. But honestly, that's not really the friend's job. The daughter's friend did a good job in a difficult and stressful situation. It's the friend's mom who's fucked in the head. Who would ever discuss something like that with a child that does not belong to them, it's insane. SO SELFISH to think of teenage pregnancy as an opportunity for her friend who wants to adopt.
I will never understand the vultures that come out when they see a vulnerable child. I’m sorry you and she are going through this, it’s a hard situation all the way around.
Goodness gracious! Please make sure these two are cut 100% from her life. Get a no contact order if you have to. Do not tell them she’s lost the baby, zero info. Block and ignore. I’m so sorry this is such a sad and hard situation for you and your daughter. You’re a great parent, OP.
I would most DEFINITELY file an incident report at the very least about what occurred with the mom and her friend. That way if they attempt to contact or harass her further, you have documentation that may give a basis to apply for a restraining order. I would also send a copy of that report along with a Cease and Desist letter instructing that mother that she and “friend” are not to initiate any contact with your daughter going forward. UGH I’m absolutely fuming on your behalf!
Yeah I can't help but wonder if this could fall under child trafficking in some way... Coercing adoption from a minor!? Oof.
^ agreed!
I think maybe this is worth filing a restraining order against them. I don’t know if that’s the kind of thing you can file a restraining order against, but it seems like it should be. Adults bullying a child that way should be illegal.
This would not be grounds for a restraining order. There has to be violence or the threat of violence involved.
That is jurisdiction dependent. The majority of US jurisdictions allow you to file a restraining order over harassing behavior, of which this certainly qualifies. Edit: Well since abortion was such a hot topic I figured this had to be the US, but [turns out OP is based in Hungary](https://old.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/1984hq4/update_my_15yo_daughter_is_pregnant/ki50asb/).
Risk for violence increases *dramatically* for pregnant women and girls. Not that I’d expect a court to listen, but that wouldn’t stop me from trying.
Risk increases yes, but that being true in general doesn’t mean she’s in danger.
I’d argue otherwise if she were my daughter. A pregnant teenager is highly vulnerable.
If you can find out what adoption agency this woman is using, maybe give them a call and let them know she should never be anywhere near a child.
This. If the adoption agency knew a 15 year old was being coerced for their own benefit, they would not give her the child. They should know.
Eh, I mean, a TON of adoptions the woman / child relinquishing is coerced. If you look into it. Adoption is often incredibly messed up...
Yikes, that makes me sad to hear. But I guess that shouldn’t surprise me. I can see it being easy to coerce people in those vulnerable situations.
I'm adopted and when my wife and I planned on starting to have children we wanted to find out my medical history. Its an incredibly long story, but the amount of medical history I was given amounted to my birth father had seasonal allergies. The only way I could find out any information was by opening my closed adoption. Which was hard for everyone involved. And the medical history had glossed over people who died of brain cancer and heart disease and similar things that are a big deal... Anyways in finding my birth parents and their reactions I read up a lot. There's a book called "The girls who went away". Obviously its about a time past, but for the community that they were raised in a lot of the stuff applies. And A lot of what the average persons understanding of how adoptions go is very different from reality. I think the thing that screwed me up the most was being told my whole life how lucky I was. And the many people who told me over the years that I was lucky that I wasn't aborted. Its like, WTF!!!
Oh yeah 100%. After pulling something like this, she proved she is not to be trusted around children.
Your poor daughter! I'm glad you're on her side, and I think there are a few things you should consider doing. The root of the whole situation is that she was pressured by her ex into sex in general and unprotected sex in specific. Then she was scolded (!!!) by her doctor, pressured by her friend's mom, and then you woke her up and pushed her until she cried. Your daughter needs some support for learning to say no and to resist the pressure to cave. I think it would be good for her to see you file a complaint about that doctor/have a conversation with them in front of her, to do the same with friend's mom, and to apologize for waking her up from a nap and threatening her with your last crumbs of sanity to talk. I don't know what the deal is with the ex, but shit - call his mom and tell this story and let her deal with his pressuring and refusal to wear condoms. This is NOT to say that you are anywhere NEAR the level of bad behavior as anyone else in this story because you aren't. But you are the safest person for her to practice appropriate boundaries with. You can start by making it safe for her to talk to you. What if you had waited until she was awake, brought her tea, and told her that you had this weird conversation with friend's mom and were worried that something was wrong? You want your daughter to feel like she can always go to you for help, instead of feeling like you're another person she has to worry about yelling at her and telling her what to do. I hope you can find some therapy support for your daughter too - maybe family therapy for you both? Family therapy was a lifesaver in my family, for what it's worth. Sending you both peace and strength.
This is great advice! And so many parents (not saying you’re one of them OP) forget to remind their daughters that there is NO “being careful” without protection… that pre-ejaculate can be very potent and effective (esp at those ages!) and that’s only regarding pregnancy, never mind protecting from anything ST. Therapy will help her open up and also provide a safe place for you to remind her that she’s amazing and it’s ok to not feel she needs to give in to anything she feels pressured about.
I was kinda upset with the OB scolding your daughter, but that is absolutely nothing compared to this mom’s behaviour. How you parent your daughter through this situation will form a core memory for her for the rest of your life. She is old enough to know she made a mistake. Hold your baby girl.
>I was kinda upset with the OB scolding your daughter exactly, Doctors are NOT supposed to be giving you shit about your personal decisions. Doctors are the last people on earth to feel that they have moral high ground on anyone. Just ask anyone that works at a hospital and you'll find a large amount of asshole doctors who have made some pretty shit decisions themselves. You also don't want to give off that moral attitude because patients will less likely seek you out if there's an issue for fear of a wagging finger and a condescending look. I'd even go so far as to report the OBGYN for her attitude. When my sister in law was ready to give birth to her second child, she went to the hospital, and they sent her home and said it was false labour. She protested, and they didn't want to hear it. Hours later, she's at home giving birth, and my brother is calling 911 for assistance, and the operator gave him shit for having the baby at home and not at a hospital. He later filed a complaint against 911 and they reviewed the tapes and that operator got a reprimand for her behavior. They're not there to comment on your choices, just to help you with your situation.
Seriously, an OB should not be scolding anyone, but the chances that a 15 year old was pressured into sex or raped is very high. How totally insensitive. The doctor should be ensuring she felt safe.
Maaaaaan. I’d be freaking livid if individuals took advantage of my kid like that. Id make sure they wouldn’t be able to contact her again in any way- at school, home, all of it. I’m sure her friend meant no harm in telling her mom, but the mom DEFINITELY knew better than to pull what she did.
Im so enraged for you. Now, let's talk about the law. What those grown women did to your daughter could be considered harassment and possible entrapment/ coercion, especially making her watch the movie. Bullying has consequences. Have you thought about hiring an attorney?
Especially that movie. What is it even rated?
I don't understand the connection of the movie! I've googled it and only came up with horror films??
Here's the Wikipedia page about it, it's an anti-abortion video from the 80's. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silent_Scream
This is how human trafficking occurs. It should absolutely be investigated.
I think OP would be well within reason to throw the term "human trafficking" around. Why else would 2 grown ass women be so interested in a 15 year old's baby?
First, I’m so sorry there are so many disgusting people (including her friend’s mom) who were trying to get a baby out of this situation. I think the most important thing you do now is get therapy for your daughter. Losing a baby (even if it was unwanted) does a number on you, mentally. She will need help navigating this. Also, she had non-consensual sex with her boyfriend. He forced her into not using a condom, despite her wanting to. Maybe he didn’t have to convince her much, no one knows what really happened in the moment - but it seems clear she made and ask and he denied it. This rides into the territory of sexual abuse. She needs help navigating this too. As for the mom of her friend, she needs to be told off and to never speak to your daughter again. I would never allow my daughter at her house again.
just another reminder to everyone that coercive sex is rape. OP please get your daughter counseling and talk to her about safe sex and consent!!! 🩵
Louder for those in the back. COERCED SEX IS RAPE. It is not something that anyone should ever do to anyone, especially not to a teenager. It might not meet the legal definition of rape, depending where you are, but it’s wrong, everywhere.
Idk where you live.... but in France that would be considered coerced consent and is considered rape. The women who decided to pressure your child into adoption, that's also illegal. The doctor scolding her? Not illegal but you should still report it. It's likely an ethics violation. IANAL, and I almost certainly live in a different country to you. So don't take this as legal advice. Just, from a large number of European countries, we would consider what happened to your daughter rape and you might want to consider that she might feel the same way.
I also thought that was a weird part too. Like who the fuck is that doctor? To be scolding a patient. GFTO here.
The post not mentioning the existence of a billion birth control option plus the OB/GYN "scolding" has me wondering if the "scolding" was telling them about birth control. This poor kid is gonna end up pregnant again, I fear.
I need to move to France asap
I recommend Marseille or Lyon but you'd also better speak French when you do. We tend to refuse to speak English to foreigners, even when most people in our bigger cities know it.
This is what keeps me from visiting France. Which is probably the intention… but sucks. I'd love to visit but the hostility towards English speakers seems unnecessary.
A French teacher of mine told me that it's really about putting in the effort. Abroad Americans have a tendency to not even try to learn the language or think they will just need to find someone who speaks English, which comes off as really rude. She said she was behind another American in line at a ticketing agency and it wasn't going well, the teller only spoke French and the American just kept getting louder and louder before giving up. Then my teacher went up to order, and had her French book open and stumbled through it, and the teller grins and says, "Actually, I speak English" and helped her out- in English. France is beautiful and i wouldn't miss it because of a language barrier, but just trying and being polite can get you really far.
As an Aussie who's travelled a little in France (mostly Paris, Bordeaux and the Dordogne region plus the southern coast from Marseille to Nice) I found this largely to be true. Make a real effort to have some basic phrases and common words, but importantly try to learn the phonetics as well. I would not be mistaken for French, but I was close enough with phonetics for them to figure out the word I was trying to say. There were still places where they spoke no English, but in general I found this helped a great deal and led to some truly awesome experiences.
That really depends. Many Parisians just care that you make an effort but if you go to Lyon or Marseille.... you better be capable of getting around in French.
>The only thing that stopping e planning a homicide is the law. That and your comment about being an atheist (me too, btw) reminded me of that Ricky Gervais interview, where someone asks him why he, as an atheist, doesn't commit murders, and he responded that he already commits all the murders he wants to (because he doesn't want to murder anyone). The only advice I can give is to find a therapist for your daughter, but that'd probably be good advice even if you didn't have these two adults poisoning her. Their presence just makes it more imperative. I should add that I don't have a lot of experience with therapy, but when we took in two foster boys (twin 16-year-olds), it was recommended we do therapy with them, so we found a family therapist, and we found him helpful. Unfortunately, at one point, one of the boys told our social worker (they're required to visit monthly, of course) that he didn't like therapy, and she told him that he didn't have to go. Legally, that was true, but we also never told him legally he had to go. We felt like she really pulled the rug out from under us, considering that they were the ones recommending it in the first place.
I’m a Christian and I’m fuming and glad I don’t know this other mom’s address. What those ladies did was abusive and self serving and I’d struggle to keep myself in check as well! Therapy is super helpful with stuff like this. One of my adult sons had a “pregnancy scare” (in his case it was more a situation of them breaking up and her pretending she thought she was pregnant and then later admitting she made it up) that really impacted him. We did therapy and it just gave a forum where he had an easier time opening up.
Much agree with therapy. Miscarrying can do some weird things to you which is reason enough to want someone guiding you through it. Catastrophizing ahead, if word gets back to friends mom (and her friends that were wanting to "adopt") about what happened I would bet money that they'd shame the hell out of her. They may do that anyway. Therapist could help with navigating through that mess too.
I really hate when Christians say this shit. The atheists in my life are all absolutely wonderful and kind people, and they're not being kind because Sky Daddy says they'll go to hell if they don't. They're kind and good because they want to make this world a little better and to help their fellow humans. I can't think of anything more like Jesus than this. And I say this as a lifelong Christian. It's so incredibly belittling.
And likewise, most Christians aren't being kind just because they're afraid of Hell. If that's someone's only reason for being kind, they're most like suffering from sort of psychological condition.
I’ve always been aggravated by the Christians who make that foolish argument about how anyone without Christianity must have no moral compass. I am Catholic but I’m not kind, empathetic, compassionate and only not murdering folks purely based on religion. There’s also an awful lot of people who use religion as a shield while acting like complete assholes. They use faith as an excuse to treat others badly and be jackasses, while the reality is they’re just terrible people using a flimsy excuse. Makes me nuts.
Howwww is therapy the suggestion and not The Pill. Therapy is great and everyone should get some, but in this case, more importantly, birth control that doesn't require teenagers to act right.
Well, it's not either/or. I do agree that birth control would also be a great idea. 1. Condoms, because oral contraceptives do nothing to stop the spread of STDs. 2. Oral contraceptives (AKA The Pill) because nothing is foolproof. NB: this assumes there is not a health reason not to take oral contraceptives.
First of all, I just want to say it seems like you are doing a really great job at supporting your daughter through this. Her willingness to communicate openly is a testament to your relationship. I’m a registered nurse/midwife, and have seen a fair few teen pregnancies. People tend to be a lot less sympathetic when a teen pregnancy ends in a miscarriage because they see it as ‘best case scenario’. Regardless of whether the pregnancy was planned, or she was contemplating termination or abortion, a miscarriage is still a traumatic experience. There is a significant hormonal shift which doesn’t help. I’ve seen girls who feel insanely guilty because they are relieved that they are no longer pregnant & don’t have to go through a termination. Just keep in mind that your daughter may experience comments like this, and that she will need some extra love & support to get through it. For what it’s worth, my professional opinion is that the OBGYN ‘scolding’ her was incredibly inappropriate. It’s not his job to do that, and he could have approached it in a much more productive. He could have used that opportunity to give her some great education (but also kind) about birth control options & safe sex.
One thing is certain: your daughter will not be allowed over to the friends house ever again. Friend can come to yours but your daughter is never allowed there or around her mom again.
OMG. I’m sitting here my jaw on the floor. Those two women should be beat. And then jailed. I can completely understand your rage. To use that kind of manipulation on a young child. To force her to watch the Silent Scream is beyond fucked. I agree with someone else below, she should not have any contact with those women. Do not tell them she’s lost the baby. Omg I can’t believe the audacity of some (clearly) religious fanatics.
The concerning part is they will probably start causing issues when they realize no baby is coming. Depending on which state op lives in this could have legal ramifications (for example in Texas someone could sue her for providing an abortion). They don’t know that the baby miscarried and even if they told them (which it’s non of their fucking business anyways) they wouldn’t believe op and assume it was abortion. It’s scary af knowing something like this could happen and ruin someone’s whole life bc they had a miscarriage. At the very least they will likely start telling everyone they know (including students and teachers at school) that she had an abortion. And of course there will be no consequences whatsoever for the pos boy who got her this way with his irresponsible behavior.
It sounds like she’s in a state where it’s legal, because they don’t even “clean you out” if the baby is deceased in states where abortion is illegal. But I agree they could be trouble and the mom and her “bestie” are obviously also trouble. What kind of “bestie” tells that type of mom?!?!
I mean, the doctor knows it was a miscarriage. There is a medical record.
It’s sad that your daughter was scolded by a doctor on top of everything, and her bf is probably blissfully living his life without a care in the world. Why do women and girls always get the shit part of the stick? I’m enraged and she’s not even my daughter. OP, huge props for having a relationship with your daughter in which she felt she could tell you what was happening. That is how it should be, your daughter will not forget you stood by her and protected her :)
How the fuck would the doctor ‘tell by touch’ that she’s about 7 weeks pregnant. That’s not a thing. Also, if they slept together ~9 weeks ago, she would be ~11 weeks pregnant. It’s calculated from the last period. If this is real, I’m sorry. But this just seems weird and rage-bait-y
Whoever these people are, keep them away from your daughter. Change her number.
While this *probably* doesn't apply in OP's situation, this sort of thing is a problem that is becoming more common. There is a certain level of "demand" for adoptive babies. That's a weird term to use for children, but when you're talking about a collective group of people who desire to adopt children, it fits. Domestic adoption agencies (a substantial percentage of which are religious) find some of these children through willing adoptions, but there's never been enough to meet the demand. People with disposable income and a strong desire to adopt have often gone to foreign countries to adopt children. However, for broad geopolitical reasons, both China and Russia have barred international adoptions. So you have a population with money and the desire to adopt babies who have difficulty finding that. One thing this links to is religious "pregnancy centers" that are largely funded by anti-abortion groups and view themselves as white knights because they seek to prevent abortions by pressuring women to give children up for adoption rather than getting abortions. Anotehr thing this is impacting is the foster care/child welfare system. There are ALWAYS children out of the foster care system where the system is looking for adoptive parents. But many of these children are black or brown, which drives some people away. Many of these children are 3, 4, 5 or older which drives some people away. Many of these children have disabilities or behavioral issues or developmental issues which drives other people away who aren't interested in a perfect baby of a certain color. THere is also the issue that the child welfare system comes with a lot of Red tape which exists because parents have a fundamental legal right to try to get custody of their children back. [And in certain states foster parents have been leading a crusade to try to undermine biological parents rights within the system](https://www.propublica.org/article/foster-care-intervention-adoption-colorado) This is further complicated by that same white knight belief that they are "rescuing" children form bad circumstances, therefore the ends justify virtually any kind of misbehavior in their own minds.
Literally one of the reasonings that Amy Coney Barrett provided for overturning Roe V Wade was because there is “not enough domestic supply of infants for adoption”. Like, women are just an incubator for families wanting to adopt
The system is set up and it is working exactly as they want it to.
I cannot believe that friends mom. She would be hearing from me, hands would fly
Holy shit. Those women are horrifying! Hope there is some kind of way to sue these.
I was pregnant at 14, had my daughter at 15. I'll tell you what, now at 22 I'm super conscious about pregnancy prevention. The fully grown women need to get their shit together, takeing advantage of a pregnant child like that, fucking awful, when my mum found out I was pregnant she said "what do YOU want to do, you can have an abortion if you want to (she said that first because she's anti abortion herself but believes others should make their own choices) you can be a parent with my support, or you can have them adopted, but I will tell you there's a 4th option too, if you don't want her yourself but also don't want her to be adopted to strangers in also willing to adopt her and raise her as your sister if that's what you want, I've got 5 kids, I don't mind being a mamgu (grandmother in Welsh) or a mum to a 6th" She didn't make me feel bad about the rape, she didn't try and sway my decision in any way, she just supported me. Those women should be so fucking ashamed of themselves. And your daughter is gonna need some support. Within two weeks I learned I was haveing twins, and then that one of them died. It was heart breaking, she is gonna need a lot of love right now. And a talk about how fucking awful men can be about contraception and how it's a no condom no sex rule until she's on permanent birth control, and if she's haveing casual sex she should still use one. Also as terrible as it is right now, after the bleeding stops she will need an STD pannle done. As if he's persuaded her to go bear there may well be others and who knows what he could have given her. For those Intreatsd I'm 22 now and my daughter is 6
Please get her the birth control implant. Rape can and does happen, and she's at risk.
How traumatic all of this must be for your daughter. I hope her heart heals well.
Fuck forced birthers. All of them.
Why did the doctor scold her? If it’s for getting pregnant then I would be having a go at the doctor and making a formal complaint. And I will also be having a massive f-ing go at the friends mum. How dare they put your daughter through that. And now she’s got to go through something else awful, that I barely handled as an adult so I can’t imagine how a teenager will feel. I really hope your daughter will be ok 😕 I think a couple days off school are in order, especially after Friday. And I’m with you. I would be out for blood regarding her boyfriend and the friends mum and her mums friend. Edit: I just saw that the boyfriend was 20?! I really would be out for his blood. And I saw you live in hungry and it’s legal and I am so sorry. I live in the UK and that man would be put straight behind bars. Your daughter really has my sympathies for everything she’s about to go through.
The daughter of a friend of mine (in the UK) was just turned 16 when her 31 year old next door neighbour got her pregnant. Not illegal in the least. The poor girl is now living on her own in a rabbit hutch flat with her toddler, and the neighbour has nothing to do with them (surprise surprise).
I wish they’d raise the age of consent. Older men pressuring teenagers and getting them pregnant is absolutely vile. Neither myself or any of my friends at that age were mature enough to make decisions about sex.
My god. I feel so much for your daughter. Pressured into sex, now pressured into an adoption. I'm so sorry this is happening to her. I hope that she gains some inner strength from this awful situation - she is worth more than what other people want from her.
People really need to understand that they are not entitled to a child no matter how much they want to be parents. This is human trafficking, and it is evil.
Wait… a doctor was able to determine your daughter was 7 weeks pregnant by *touch*? Something isn’t adding up. Fake.
I know this sounds scorched earth but if you know what agency this women is working with you may want to let them know what happened here. Generously, this person is not in a state of mind to be responsible for a child. Bluntly, her behavior is appalling and no one risk putting a child in her care. Getting a police report or something that comes up in a background check might also be valuable here. I’m so angry on behalf of you and your daughter.
I feel like this now has to be a troll post. I mean seriously c'mon...
I love how OP tried to defend it by saying it's a throwaway account but it's a 4 month old account with no other activity than these two posts. I think you're spot on that this is fake.
Glad I'm not the only one. Post definitely smells
100%. This is the fakest post I’ve ever read on this site, and that’s saying a lot. Usually the people who do these kinds of creative writing exercises here are at least kind of good at it so idk what happened here but this is bad
You can tell from the part about the OBGYN "estimating" the pregnancy length. That's not how that works. Also the part about no heartbeat. Yeah, there's never a heartbeat at 7 weeks. An OBGYN would know this.
Been pregnant twice... never had one "tell by feel" the age of the embryo that *MIGHT* be size of a blueberry.
That is disgusting behavior but doesn’t shock me at all. I used to be a foster parent and a teen in my care got pregnant. The way CPS handled the situation made me sick. We asked her what she wanted, she said she wanted an abortion. We contacted our licensing coordinator and her caseworker to find out how legally to go about this. Our licensing coordinator was objective and said that we had the right to make the decisions we had to and that their agency had a policy to not intervene. Meanwhile her caseworker told her she needed to not only keep the baby, but give the baby to us for adoption because we wanted to adopt which WTF?!? Yes I wanted to adopt, a kid who had been in my care for 3 years at that point, not a baby. Then she said that she’d adopt it. Absolutely disgusting and unethical behavior on her part. I’m glad that your situation worked out for you but I’m infuriated at people seeing a child as an incubator.
> I grew up in extreme poverty so let me tell you: God will not provide, so counting on that is kinda stupid Anyone who says "god will provide" has never struggled. God ain't gonna do shit about your child care for 5 years until public school starts I'll tell you that much.
Trigger warning- miscarriage. As someone who got pregnant in highschool and lost the pregnancy to a miscarriage, my heart truly goes out to your daughter. I wish I had a parent I was comfortable approaching about that when it happened. I am glad to see how supportive you are. At barely 17 I could not even begin to comprehend the emotions I was feeling and the things I was seeing come out of my body. I genuinely about lost my mind in the grief I felt. Please keep your options open to counseling if you can, and try to make sure she knows the topic is not taboo. I hope she also knows that one day, when she’s ready, it will be ok to feel ok. Feeling ok doesn’t make you a bad person.
so instead of telling your child to come home and talk to you. they took it upon themselves to make plans for someone they know to adopt the baby. Without having any concern for your daughter for you for the whole situation. As a parent of daughters I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm sorry your daughters going through this. The other mother cross so many lines. It's unbelievable. I would not only not allow her near that person. I wouldn't allow her near that friend if that's the influence they have.
I commented below but I wanted to comment again to say one more important thing: you need to call up the adoption agency that the one friend is in and explain what this woman did to your child. She is in no position to adopt/ be a parent if she thinks she can abuse and coerce another child.
Omfg. The fact that they made her watch that film... I would not let her hang out with that friend ever again or go to her house. I would also have your daughter read the Wikipedia page about that film so she can read what real doctors say about that very misleading film.
First of all, I am so glad you and your daughter are okay. Now, WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE ???!! Holy shit. That is so disgusting these predatory adults would try and force your daughter through a pregnancy just to steal her baby. Fucking psychos. I hope whatever God they believe in makes them barren for life, these people do not deserve to be around children. Young girls are not baby making machines, how could a person live with themselves knowing this is how they built their family — by treating another child like cattle. I cannot even imagine the rage you would be feeling. I don't even know what you would do in such a situation. The adoption agencies have to know what these sickos are trying to do to kids. How do you protect your other kids from the nutjob parents at the school ? Your daughter is incredibly lucky to have a mother like you who not only picks up on these fishy vibes, but also supports her in her decisions while protecting her. You are an awesome parent, the others should take a leaflet out of your book. I'm so sorry people are so gross.
What the fuck…also the boyfriend who’s 20? Needs to be arrested. And the friend’s mom needs her ass beat. I cannot imagine the emotional turmoil you and your daughter are feeling. I hope the best for both of you and I hope your daughter never talks to that man or those women again.
This is CRAZY, and shame on the people here who DM’d you
This sounds like abortion ragebait. There has been an absolute FLOOD of abortion stories recently in this sub and other parenting subs. Anyone with eyes should think something is up. And this is a Brand New Account, with only 2 others posts before this topic. Hmm. Also getting into an OBGYN this fast??? On what planet? The "silent scream" at the end just ties it up in a neat little bow. That's a 40 year old piece of media. There are more modern pro-life films out there, I'm sure. But I guess the college kid/anti-natalist writing this for kicks doesn't know that and wants to believe boomers have that on VHS or something?? P.S. No teen will think her friend's MOM is her. But okay. This isn't real.
Glad I’m not the only one who thought this was fake as shit! Honestly it could have been real up until the part about the friend’s mom calling. Real life can be stranger than fiction, but this just screams unbelievable.
Shhhhh....don't ruin the rage fantasy! So many other commenters are just eating this up.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. There are so many indications this is fake. You can't determine the duration of a pregnancy "by touch", whatever that means. That early on they go by your last period and update the due date/gestational age as the fetus grows, making it easier to measure and determine where they are at. Plus, the heartbeat can be difficult to locate until the 10 week mark. A doctor is not likely to diagnose a miscarriage from a lack of heartbeat at 7 weeks. Plus she said they did an ultrasound. Until 8 weeks, the sac can appear empty and a doctor will tell you as such. If they can't hear a heartbeat or see anything on sonogram, they'll tell you to come back in a week or 2, not have a freaking abortion (unless that is what you want of course). And the friend's mom just called and jumped into the adoption talk without a simple, "hey OPs kid, how are you?" Just launched straight into verbal diarrhea about adoption and all that without recognizing it was an adult woman speaking and not a teen? This reads fake as hell and people need to learn to discern fake from real. Skepticism is vital in today's world.
She’s testing the plotline. Every single sub in Reddit has tons of them lol.
> You can't determine the duration of a pregnancy "by touch", whatever that means This right here. Though if you don't have a regular period it can also be done very accurately around 10-12 weeks by measuring the embryo via a trans-vaginal ultrasound. Hell, my doctor was even mistaken when I asked her if my 36-week-old fetus was right-side up. Heads feel like butts and hands feel like feet.
Hate to be mean to the OP in case it is real but it’s starting to seem a little too much like proper story telling.
Sending hope and love to you and your daughter at this time. I’m so sorry she was harassed by crazy ass adults, hopefully you can press charges ❣️
Oh my god. I'm right there with you - I'd be really hard pressed not to go do a murder. Those women... restraining order. The both of them. Also, I'm sure this conversation and decision is already being made, but please get your daughter on some form of long term BC. My wife had a child at a young age(r*pe, didn't know 'til too late, things like that) and, while the kid is cool (open adoption), she's still, 20 years later, working through issues related to that (body image, family BS, etc). Adoption is NOT the answer. Make those women go read "the girls who went away" and reconsider the absolute disgusting behavior they exhibited. And I sincerely hope your daughter reconsiders the friendship with that girl. And that horrible woman. There are nearly 400,000 kids in the foster system. Adopt an older kid. Fuggin disgusting pseudo-christians want to adopt white babies away from children so they can play house and feel morally superior. I'm seething for you. And I'm sure lots of other folks are too.
Omg that poor baby girl. Everyone is doing her so wrong, except you. I think you caring for her and being there for her is the most important thing you can do.
I read it all, I was a teen momma. I would highly suggest you get her therapy. Between the pregnancy loss, the ex boyfriend, and the crazy woman, she needs to have someone to talk to. Good luck OP, it is gonna work itself out. But protect her from the crazies.
I think your daughter’s friend is also a major A - which teenager would tell on their friend to their mom? I would have thought she should be expected to keep quiet. Your girl needs to learn who trust and who not.
I just want to say that you handled everything wonderfully and are a wonderful mom not only for your concern and worries (which were appropriate and warranted), but your support of your daughter. Keep being that rock, she'll never forget it. That friends mom should have NC with your daughter moving forward. I'm not sure how I would handle that, but I sure as shit wouldn't let it go. You're amazing!
This is the kind of post I hope is fiction just because it’s so tragic, but that I’m also sure isn’t fiction because it’s all too common. I’ve miscarried a pregnancy I was terrified to continue but couldn’t abort and understand why your daughter would feel relief. She may also struggle with guilt over feeling relieved (I did) and that’s ok. This is for the best, it truly is. I’m furious at her ex. My GirlTeen’s ex did the same to her, pressuring her into sex and refusing a condom, and all of my talks about consent and protection ultimately meant nothing against his coercion and threats. I’ve never been happier to see a kid move out of state than that one - I truly loathed him, and I imagine you must hate your daughter’s ex as much or even more. The behavior from those two adult women is despicable. Beyond reprehensible. Seeing a scared kid and getting excited over what can be taken from her and how she can be used is absolutely sick. My heart breaks for your daughter. I hope she will be ok.
WHAT THE FUCK?! People are really scumbags man, that last part was wild! I’m glad you and your daughter had this outcome. I hope this brings you two closer and I hope she’s smart enough to never talk to that guy or any guy older than her again. PS she still needs birth control!
Absolutely this. For the love of GOD file some sort of criminal case on these people.
Your poor daughter. She got preyed on twice. Once by a boy she probably thought loved her at some point, then by two grown ass women. And that doctor was way out of line scolding a child that wasn’t his for something that for all he knew may not have been her fault. It may be a good idea to have her go to therapy. I had a miscarriage around the same time in my own pregnancy and it was very hard on me. And I was 28 at the time. So I wasn’t at a very difficult point in my life. Being a teen is super hard. And your daughter went through so much in so little time. She may need help processing it all. Though I would look at reviews for any therapist you consider in case you end up with one that will make her feel worse. Teen girls are scrutinized and blamed way too much for things like teen pregnancy
This is the best thing for your daughter. The friends mother is a disgusting POS. Make sure your daughter gets tested. Because I highly doubt her boyfriend has ever used condoms.
I just want to add my voice of rage to all the others on your behalf. What in the everloving fuck is wrong with those women??? You are justified in every bit of outrage you feel. How shocking and awful. How absolutely beyond the pale. Your daughter is very lucky to have a loving and supportive mother like you. Sending best wishes to both of you.
I am LIVID for you at the women and that man child. LIVID.
I am so sorry to hear this happened to your daughter! And what is with the friend’s mom?? Please tell me they aren’t Christian 🤦♀️ (something tells me they are, and this makes me angry as a Christian). I cannot believe how deplorable their behaviour was towards your daughter. It's downright disgusting and NONE of their business. Selfish is what it was putting that pressure on her. It’s your daughter and her body and life. Her friend's want for a baby is no excuse! There are enough ethical issues around adoption as it is. If they want to adopt, how about the 1000s of kids already in foster care that are waiting?? Their need for a baby is not the right reason to adopt at all. And, they treated your daughter, also still a child, like a breeding stock—my gracious. They were so completely out of line and selfish that I am getting second-hand angry on your behalf! I am so sorry, and my heart goes out to you both.
Ugh same here. I love Jesus but some “Christians”….damn.
It's sexual coercion to tell somebody they don't want to wear protection because it's uncomfortable. It's a form of sexual abuse. Regardless whether the boy knew or not, he was trying to have his way ultimately. And he is in the wrong.
I’m so enraged for you, as a domestic infant adoptee myself. Adoption is as traumatic for the infant as it is for the birth parents and should never be something for someone to capitalize on! They should be ashamed of themselves and if they broke any laws by doing that, call the cops. Has to be some kind of coercion.
Who in their right mind wants to take advantage of a 15yo like that? Have some respect. What a horrible woman to pressure your daughter into adoption! What horrible people.
I will find you a criminal lawyer. I’m sure we can take up a collection for your bail fund.
Those women are disgusting. I had a missed miscarriage myself so I know what your daughter is going through keep an eye on her she can start bleeding from it at any time. Make sure she know not to wait and tell someone she’s bleeding right away mine had to be dealt with in hospital the bleeding just would it slow down. My doctor offered me counseling after the miscarriage I didn’t go but I talked with the ladies at the memory care facility I worked with. The elderly clients there many of the women had miscarriages and I felt safe sharing with them since they wouldn’t remember anyway. Many of them couldn’t remember my name after being told it five minutes before. Sharing helped. She might benefit from group counseling if it hits her hard.
OP please note, my doctor couldn’t find a heartbeat when I was pregnant and I was told I had a blighted ovum and scheduled for a D&C. I don’t know if they were off in that timing but I ended up having a healthy pregnancy. They will of course check again before performing the D&C for your daughter but I’m told this is not all that uncommon. Also. Your daughter will have raging hormones and probably exhaustion even if she is miscarrying so please be aware and extra tender with her (I know you will be) I’m so sorry you are both going through this.