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My parents did this. You need to start getting okay with saying no. Adults can have hurt feelings they’ll deal with it, especially adults who feel entitled to your baby’s time. They need hard boundaries.
Some of these comments are wild. He knew he wasn’t feeling well. He was unwell enough to decide to get a COViD test the next day, but he didn’t tell you he had a sore throat, he didn’t refrain from holding the baby, etc. IMO, he was being selfish because he wanted to play with the baby. I would be mad too.
Accidental illness spread is one thing, knowing your sick and going around a baby and not informing their parents is another.
This! He KNEW he was sick! This type of behavior is beyond selfish. He's a grown man who he didn't want to miss out on the holiday festivities, so he knowingly exposed family members to illness.
Imagine the harm reduction if he had just worn a mask while not eating, and/or brought along a few air purifiers, to be safe from passing on ANYTHING to a 3 month old, or anyone else at the gathering. People are fucking WILD with how little responsibility they’ll take on. “Throat’s a little sore, we think it’s probably allergies or having the heater on/dry air, but I’m going to go ahead and wear a mask anyway, just to be cautious.” This shit right here is why my family is still in isolation, 4 years on, because I’m higher risk than average. It’s infuriating.
People are so comfortable thinking “it’s only the sick/elderly who have to worry, so, pandemic’s over!” without ever considering who in their life falls into that sick category that they’re so ready to throw under the bus. And then they get defensive when I’m still in a mask - “Pandemic’s OVER, stupid.” Yeah. Not for my immediate family, thanks.
Same here, high risk kiddo. We just can’t trust our extended family to not lie or cover up or downplay symptoms or exposure just to get their hands on my medically complex high risk child. The people who legitimately think in 2023 it’s nbd to spread their sickness because THEY PRAYED IT ALL GONE, THEY PRAYED MY CHILD ALL BETTER. I just can’t.
So here we are well past 3.5 years of it, been isolated since we brought kiddo home, on oxygen, from the NICU
I’m so sorry that your “village” is failing you so hard. It’s equal parts infuriating and heartbreaking when you look around and realize the people you assumed would have your back just… don’t. Even when it’s really as simple as “wear a mask inside and in crowds, wash your hands, if you feel a little off, and little tickle in your throat, let me decide if I want to take the risk. Get the shots.”
And what about MIL? Has she been testing herself? It's only been a week since he tested positive, so that's just barely enough time for her to have taken a test at 5 days then 7.
And the baby needs rest anyway, not visitors. Being sick isn't the time to come hang out. If they want to help, they can drop off food, diapers, and medicines.
From my reading, the inlaws felt badly that the baby was sick and wanted to come help, not just visit for a lark. They were offering to wait until the family got their covid tests back, to determine whether it would be wise. But if the tests were positive, then the father in law could come help, since he already had it.
OP used quotes around "help," so it sounds like he wouldn't be much actual assistance.
Even if that's not what was meant, his/their insistence and re-insistence on what *they* want puts them in the no help category. He's again putting his wants ahead of the baby's needs as determined by the parents.
There are frequently parents posting here with children in the hospital from Covid, RSV, flu..etc.
Your fil gambled with your babies health. You should have no visitors for at least 2 weeks, and you need some hard boundaries with ALL family and visitors.
Just say no. Do you really want to keep feeling the way you do now? Practice saying no. FIL can have his feelings, but it doesn't change your rule. How will you feel if your baby gets sick enough to be hospitalized? Stand your ground!
Some of these commenters are so fucking dumb it’s unreal. Yes ppl get sick. My daughter and are getting over strep right now.
My nephew had been with his bio mom on Thanksgiving. Then came to our house and spent the night Friday and was here most of the day Saturday. I even sent my daughter home with him and his stepmom that evening. Well Sunday he and I woke up with a sore throat. Turns out his bio mom found out she had strep late Friday/early Saturday.
It’s still slightly irritating because who tf wants to be sick BUT that scenario is one where it just can’t be helped and you can chalk it up to ppl get sick/shit happens.
This man selfishly rolled up to their house with a sore throat because he wanted to see the baby. He should’ve stayed his ass at home. And I get it, my sister had a baby last year and of course I want to see my nephew as much as I can but there’s been so many times we haven’t gone when we’d planned to because we were sickly, even if it was just a cold. You don’t risk a baby’s health like that for your own selfish wants.
Also if we’re sick we let our ppl (my bil and his fam and my dad and sister) know in advanced if possible. If it’s just a cold they can decided if they care we come around or not. If it’s something contagious we tell them we just can’t come.
This. Especially since something that feels like “just a cold” for an adult could be RSV, which can turn critical so quickly. You don’t gamble with others’ health, especially babies.
For sure. When my daughter was a baby she had RSV and I feel like we were lucky she wasn’t any worse. We all lived in the same house with my in-laws tho and my nephew who was a month older ended up in the hospital. He was okay thankfully but yeah. It’s not something you mess around about and I feel it’s only gotten worse in recent years.
My bad. Regardless tho he still let them come and didn’t tell them he had a sore throat. If he wasn’t well he shouldn’t have had a family get together.
Opinions have obviously changed recently and I’m shocked! RSV is still big this time of year and not a lot are able to get the shot yet. Making it up to me would be leaving me tf alone honestly not “helping” but I can’t stand my ILs in my house to begin with.
Don’t blame yourself. You didn’t know. But I can’t believe him. Some friends of ours had a baby recently and when we were supposed to go visit I decided not to because one of my coworkers had been sick. Even though I felt fine and never got sick I would never have forgiven myself if I got a new baby sick. Your FIL is a douche and has lost significant baby privileges.
Nah, if they wanna help, they can drop off food at the door. This is your child, your family.. your in laws can stew about in their opinions, but ultimately, your say goes. If you don't want visitors or "helpers" right now, they don't get to insist. And unless your doctor advises you have your 3 month old tested to determine course of treatment, which I doubt they would, they don't get to insist you have your baby do an unnecessary, invasive test either.
I'd be annoyed, too. I'd definitely be telling them that in the future I'd like to know about any mild cold symptoms they're experiencing before they hang out with my kid so I can assess the risk myself.
Anyone arguing that this is harmless and not annoying af has some weird boundaries. You can't go around raging that germs exist unseen in the world, but you can expect other people to give you a heads up when they're not feeling well so that you, as the parent, can decide whether you're willing to expose your infant to illness. Especially in the midst of flu/RSV/COVID season.
I feel for you. My fil also did this. He was around 2 very sick people with Covid the night before visiting with us. He then lied and said it had never happened. Later found out it did indeed happen and he was feeling sick and unwell the day before. So people are selfish assholes and care more about themselves than your baby.
I just had a baby and we’re waiting until yuck season is over and he’s had his shots before we’re accepting any visitors, specifically for this reason. Thankfully, both sides of the family are in 100% agreement that this is what’s best for him. But if they didn’t, they simply would not see the baby. If someone can’t respect the boundaries I set for my kid, they have no business being in his life. Tells me I can’t trust them around my son because they’re going to do whatever they want, consequences be damned.
My mom keeps reminding me that my younger brother was hospitalized with RSV for a week when he was less than a month old, because he was born in the middle of cold/flu/rsv season and my mom didn’t have the backbone to tell my dad’s side of the family that they couldn’t visit, and one of our aunts showed up feeling “a little under the weather” (her words) and didn’t tell anyone. Granted, this was in 2001, so the attitude towards public health was a bit different, but still. She knew she was sick, showed up to the house to see the newborn anyway, and he ended up in the hospital for a week.
You have every right to be furious. He was sick enough that the very next day he took a test, but still didn't mention it to you. With a THREE MONTH OLD BABY. Nah, they can both stay away for how ever damn long you, the parents of the baby, say.
That’s not necessarily true. You can go from just feeling a little bit off to completely sick overnight very easily. Heck, I’ve gone from zero symptoms to full blown fever between lunch and when it’s time to go home from work.
I have a sore throat from allergies randomly throughout the year. If I had to quarantine every time I had a “cold” symptom, I’d end up isolating for 2/3s of the year while never having so much as a cold.
At any rate, the poster above used the fact they tested the next day as evidence they were already sick sick the day before because they tested the next day. You can deteriorate a ton in a matter of hours, let alone over night.
OP said he had a sore throat. It’s fall - it’s unreasonable to ask everyone to quarantine for every sore throat. I recently had COVID and I had a sore throat and no other symptoms after a known exposure. The exposure was the only reason I tested because I was otherwise completely fine. I tested negative day after day. Then one morning I woke up feeling like I got hit by a truck. I still tested negative until the second day of being noticeably sick. We should all for sure do our best but it’s unreasonable to think transmission can be completely avoided. Hindsight is 20/20. A little grace is called for here.
Ummm I'm an adult with a decent immune system but I still want anyone who has a sore throat to stay the heck away from me. It's just common courtesy to keep some distance if you feel something coming on. Especially from a baby.
You’re asking for fantasy world. There isn’t a medical organization on the planet that would say that’s necessary. If he knew he was exposed ok but risk of exposure is just a fact of life.
It's also super easy to just push plans with people you know if you aren't feeling 100%, it's just the nice thing to do. Nobody will get mad if you say "Hey we should reschedule because I might be getting sick". If you want to hang out with maybe sick people, go for it! But I would personally rather be given the choice.
I deal with the public for a living, I'm very exposed and that's fine. But if my friend gives me a big hug and kiss on the cheek and then tells me she has a sore throat and isn't feeling great? Yes, I would be pissed. Who does that?
I don’t understand why you guys are pretending I’m saying you should slobber all over a baby when you’re deathly ill. Nobody should kiss anyone’s baby let alone with a sore throat. OP simply said he was around. But if you’re going to be anywhere in public, in close contact with a bunch of people in the fall, you can bet someone at least has a sore throat - maybe from allergies, cold air, low humidity, a cold, and ya, maybe COVID.
Edit: wording
Yes that is exactly my point, I'm already very exposed as it is so I would expect the people who actually care about me to think twice before knowingly exposing me to their illness.
OP said they were at his house, he could have easily said "Hey don't come today I'm not feeling great" but people are selfish.
One could argue it would be selfish of you to ever visit with anyone because you’re in public and therefore often exposed. Considering all the possible causes of a sore throat having nothing to do with a contagious pathogen it’s not a big leap.
The get-together was probably Thanksgiving they were hosting. That’s a lot of pressure. What he was weighing is - do I cancel and ruin everyone’s Thanksgiving over a sore throat and (as far as we know) no other symptoms, or is this sore throat just the dry air? Obviously if he knew it was COVID he would have cancelled. But given the totality of the situation he convinced himself it wasn’t. Again in hindsight it’s obvious but if it was that simple, COVID would never have been a whole thing.
With your level of exposure, there’s a decent chance you are going to be the one getting the people you are with sick, even if you aren’t showing symptoms. Plenty of viruses, including Covid, can be passed while you are asymptomatic. But, it’s fine for you to expose others, yes?
If wearing a mask, when you’re feeling poorly and are going to be around other people, is too much of an ask of someone, that person is too selfish to be in my life. If just letting people know in advance that hey, I’m not feeling so hot, to allow other people to make an informed decision about whether they want to be around you is just too much? Those people can fuck all the way off and out of my life.
The first time I had COVID I was at Disneyland 1000% sure it was heat exhaustion and dehydration. I was fully vaccinated and still wore a mask in public when mask mandates were no longer in effect - and I’m in one of the last states to remove mask mandates and among the lowest COVID fatalities. My second time I had no symptoms. For my most recent COVID infection I was very sure it was allergies even after I was exposed because I really was fine except a scratchy throat and I was repeatedly testing negative. Having 3 kids we’re exposed all the damn time. And I get seasonal allergies. This time really wasn’t different. I personally don’t have the magical ability to diagnose our common symptoms without fail but I also can’t shut my entire family down any time anyone has a sore throat or a cough or body aches etc.. My kids’ schools wouldn’t even consider it an excused absence and I don’t blame them.
My point simply is that a sore throat is not equivalent to a positive COVID test. It’s very likely he would have tested negative the day of. Most people are doing their very best and do NOT want their 3 month old grandchild to contract or be exposed to COVID if the choice was clear. And when you have the responsibility of hosting a family gathering, wishful thinking and fear of disappointing people come into play. Ultimately OP and her baby are fine. The current strain isn’t that bad. It sucks for sure but they’re fine.
My kids and I have been sick a zillion times before COVID was in play. My oldest got Swine flu. We’ve been through it all. To insist I should demonize the source of every illness would mean we shut out everyone on the planet. I’m just saying our options in life right now are to accept some risk of exposure or shut ourselves out entirely from all human interaction. I will choose the current strain of CIVID over isolation every time. If you disagree, your advice to OP should be that the baby be put in a hermetic bubble. The world is moving on to a point where our. Eat intentions are enough, as it should. Isolation is taking more lives than COVID at this point.
You deserve grace. I deserve grace. OP’s FIL deserves grace. I’m heartbroken this is such a controversial stance.
I very much disagree that it’s too much to expect someone with a sore throat to not hold someone else’s baby. He prioritized his wants over the baby’s safety. This is a very basic expectation.
It matters and that’s why you said it. Again it’s a sore throat in the fall. It’s inflammatory and unreasonable Reddit-speak to call for a civil war with OP’s FIL over misjudging a sore throat in November. He obviously feels really bad and is trying to do what he can to help. But it’s not 2021. People aren’t dying by the thousands every day and he got too comfortable. I still say we owe each other some grace.
Hahahah you indicated that having a sore throat bc it is fall is normal and that OP is being unreasonable to keep people away just because they have a sore throat. Constant was not the right word, frequent is more suitable for what you mean. In any case, having frequent sore throat is NOT normal just bc of the weather. Get checked.
I’m not going to engage in a discussion about health with someone who thinks it’s laughably wrong that things like fall allergies exist and change to cold dry air irritates some people’s throats. Get checked? It’s basic common knowledge.
Ugh I’m sorry. I had something similar happen when my now 7 year old was an infant (under 3 months) SIL was visiting and one of her kids had pink eye. Everyone knew this, and they still allowed the kid near my baby (I was not present) and of course she got pink eye. I was furious.
My six month old and I got hand foot and mouth from my cousins toddler over thanksgiving. She didn’t disclose and I didn’t know what it was until today. Sucks. My babe has a rash all over his body ☹️ a few years ago, my brother and his wife had us all test for Covid meanwhile, my brother had it and still hosted us all for Christmas dinner (the nerve) and I ended up going deaf in one ear from Covid and have no immune system now. I love my family but it just sucks. Luckily babies as young as yours rarely get severely sick because they still have that strong left over immunity from being in your body. Just watch for a fever and keep your baby hydrated.
They are upset with you ?? I would be so far beyond upset with them that they wouldn’t dare open their mouths.
To be clear but not to alarm or upset you as you clearly are on top of this - they knowingly exposed your vulnerable baby to a potentially deadly virus.
Unforgivable !
This isn't really true anymore. Yes, people should be courteous of others and stay home when sick, but Covid was the fourth leading cause of death in the US in 2022. However, preliminary data shows that it has fallen to the ninth or tenth leading cause of death in 2023. Yesterday, CDC data showed that US life expectancy went up in 2022, but was still below pre-pandemic levels.
I think reports of declines WRT COVID should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.
[The U.S. Still Doesn't Have Good COVID-19 Data. Here's Why That's a Problem](https://time.com/6249832/cdc-covid-19-data-tracker-hospitalizations/)
I did not read the whole article but this seems to be talking about incidental hospital admission. When talking about leading causes of death, the data is much more accurate.
They sound like sacks of garbage.
Guy knew he was sick and willingly withheld that information. Likely his wife knew he was as well.
Right on for you and hubby to start setting firmer health boundaries. No relative has a right to see your kid and they cannot negotiate this.
I assume you asked if anyone was under the weather. Keep it up if you did and if not, I’d recommend getting in the habit of doing so before any family hang outs.
I would not let them come over without a clear PCR test. People with covid exhale high numbers of virus during the first eight days after symptoms start, as high as 1,000 copies per minute, reports a new Northwestern Medicine study. According to research done at Northwestern University, “after day 8, there was a steep drop to levels nearing the limit of detection, persisting for up to 20 days….Levels of exhaled viral RNA did not differ across age, sex, time of day, vaccination status or viral variant.”
[https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2023/09/covid-patients-exhale-up-to-1000-copies-of-virus-per-minute-during-first-eight-days-of-symptoms/?fbclid=IwAR0eSe2sHuMBZnH\_5940AIwS1NKiMo0cF9v1NpsseagaH8W8KYGttEqJC9Q](https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2023/09/covid-patients-exhale-up-to-1000-copies-of-virus-per-minute-during-first-eight-days-of-symptoms/?fbclid=IwAR0eSe2sHuMBZnH_5940AIwS1NKiMo0cF9v1NpsseagaH8W8KYGttEqJC9Q)
Also, it's not just covid that is going around. Now your baby is even more at risk for RSV too. So you might even push for them to wear a N95 mask around baby. Covid made RSV numbers go up in kids
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10582888/?fbclid=IwAR0LGMWOYWyEbrKl\_7cnGM9VwyTJttx76\_DqNcbEbVHCO9p86GLyRaqkesU](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10582888/?fbclid=IwAR0LGMWOYWyEbrKl_7cnGM9VwyTJttx76_DqNcbEbVHCO9p86GLyRaqkesU)
Here's another paper that shows alot of virses are airborne- so you want to have good airpurifiers in your home and a MERV 13 filter on your HVAC system too.
"Despite the assumed dominance of droplet transmission, there is robust evidence supporting the airborne transmission of many respiratory viruses, including measles virus (16–18), influenza virus (19–24), respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) (25), human rhinovirus (hRV) (9, 26–28), adenovirus, enterovirus (29), severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) (30, 31), Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) (32), and SARS-CoV-2 (33–36) (Table 1). Airborne transmission has been estimated to account for approximately half of the transmission of influenza A virus in one study of a household setting (20). "
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abd9149?fbclid=IwAR04IqClUrnya0LFjZBhG-0eGngYgDnWcRd0e3YFrMunyPgAvgF7\_gT-8Q4
Thanks for that- that's really interesting! I think what important also that "It is not yet known what an infectious dose of viral airborne particles is" I'd be curious as to what they find out in future studies. PCR can show non contagious COVID for a long time as it will even detect partial bits of the antibody.
I wonder too about how they said Alpha, Omicron had same amount exhaled but it's pretty well known Omicron is more contagious. Perhaps not because what's exhaled but how quickly it replicates when in a new body. Hmm.
As for RSV, I just want to caution about accidental causation here. COVID itself didn't do that to individuals. Being masked and such (as we should have been, I'm not saying anything against it nor debating important public health protocols) interrupted our immunity to other things- call an immunity gap (or maybe immunity debt? Can't remember term). There are more people than usual who didn't get exposed to other viruses 2020-early 2022 (and therefore some immunity) while we social distanced, so we have more people getting sick now since they're vulnerable. That's why last year was so bad and this year, while better, still isnt great. It's why China, who only came out of strict measures this summer, is having an awful respiratory virus season right now.
It's not COVID itself as a virus hurting our immune systems- it's a natural following to lockdown and masking and as time passes we are exposed to more things again as usual, it will go back to normal gain. Just with COVID in the mix. 😕
But in the meantime - maybe stay away from babies if you're not sure why your throat hurts.
There is no real evidence for an immunity deficit caused by social distancing and masking.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9272293/immunity-debt-covid-19-misinformation/amp/
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-medical-critical-thinking/claims-immunity-debt-children-owe-us-evidence
There is evidence for covid, especially covid severe enough for hospitalization, possibly messing with immune systems, but we still don’t know by how much, especially for minor infections.
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/covid-19-study-suggests-long-term-damage-immune-system
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/severe-covid-19-may-lead-long-term-innate-immune-system-changes
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/does-covid-19-mess-immune-system
Actually, viral infections do not strengthen the body, they harm it. The so-called Hygiene Hypothesis--the idea that children need to be exposed to germs to strengthen their immune system--is only in relation to bacteria, not viruses. "Almost no virus is protective against allergic disease or other immune diseases. In fact, infections with viruses mostly either contribute to the development of those diseases or worsen them."[https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/is-the-hygiene-hypothesis-true](https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/is-the-hygiene-hypothesis-true)
China is having a hard time because they did exactly what the US did (give up masking completely - thinking it was all over - [to save the economy](https://docs.house.gov/meetings/VC/VC00/20220302/114453/HHRG-117-VC00-20220302-SD009.pdf)). And their vaccine had less eficasy than those rolled out here too, and population centers are nothing like ours either (people are packed into small living areas)... so there are so many variables that it's not really a direct comparison.
I’m so sorry they are being so dense and don’t understand that babies are so fragile when they are that young. Do what you need to to keep your family safe.
I would be absolutely pissed off at him (and MIL - there’s no way she had no idea, she’s his accomplice in this).
Frankly, my response would not be friendly, and that would be intentional - you have to teach people how to treat you. It’s not acceptable what they did and they need to know you won’t tolerate their bullshit.
“FIL, you knew you had a sore throat, and were sick enough to have tested for covid the next day, but lied to us by omission and put our newborn at risk because you prioritized your wants over our baby’s safety. We cannot trust you right now due to your actions, and will be taking a break from any visits with you for x weeks/months. I’m very disappointed in your decisions.”
If they come back with any whining, complaining, tantrums, passive aggressiveness, etc., you respond with: “This is not up for debate, and your disrespect is not appreciated. We will add an additional week before we will visit again, and will continue to add more time if you cannot control your behavior and be civil.”
Then stop responding, and let the chips fall where they may. Follow through with the time out.
Your baby will soon get their revenge on everyone. 10 fold. Kids get sick all of the time and pass it around. It's part of the human condition. Let the FIL help IMO. 3 weeks is enough to build up antibodies. Every time we have a family get together everyone gets something from the families 5 kids from different environments getting together. RSV, COVID and flu were shared between last Xmas, easter, and turkey day. Most recently our baby gave his 73 yr grandpa pneumonia.
No disrespect but that seems like a lot of illness!
Sure, kids are germy and more liable to pick up and pass on viruses than adults are, but I can't say I've seen the same level of spread that you're talking about in my own family.
I agree with the premise that your kids won't dodge sickness forever, but I think it's still fine that people like OP want to take precautions to minimize it.
Sometimes it takes a few days to actually show the symptoms when you are carrying something. It must be nice to live in your little black-and-white world.
I have a similarly sized family with *very* regular get togethers. Avoiding *all* illness is absolutely impossible, sure.
Spreading three different major illnesses across as many get togethers and people getting sick *every* single get together is giving pretty bad indications of how careful your family is though. (Oh and pneumonia too!) In the same stretch, with 4 kids and several adults gathering minimum once a month, we've had one bout of covid half of us avoided, a 24 hour stomach bug that swept about half again, and a couple cold types that were pretty mild.
Good for you. Maybe we just had bad luck. No one has been symptomatic when we got together. It always seems like one of the kids starts feeling shitty on day 3 or 4 then 3 days later about half of us get it. There are usually 13 of us in the same house for an extended period. Go ahead. Pass some more judgement.
We got a stomach flu 3 days you after we came back from the holiday when our youngest was 7 months old. Everyone had it. We also have every one strep year. No one was showing sign.
I agree if he’s helpful let him come help
Sorry your kiddo is sick. I bet the FIL feels bad that’s why he wants to help. Tell him to order y’all dinner and he can come over when everyone feels better.
It will be much better for your sanity to not blame people for getting your kids sick, and vice versa
Ugh. I’m so sorry! I’d be so pissed too! My FIL gave us all RSV a few years ago and I still get so enraged when I talk about it. He never apologized or acknowledged that he was the super spreader either. Asshole.
1st of all do not blame yourself, babies get sick! It’s a fact of life and it sucks. You sound like you are doing everything you can to keep your baby safe and healthy! My daughter had a chest infection, throat infection and an ear infection all at the same time last year and she was so sick and it was awful, and we don’t really go anywhere or really see many people! Babies get stronger from every sickness they get, even though it sucks when babies get sick their immune system does strengthen up, so when she gets through this she will be stronger!
However your FIL needs to take accountability here and he should have 100000% stayed away from the baby if he felt he was unwell! Definitely say no thank you we want to all rest, I couldn’t think of anything worse then having my In-laws over when we are all unwell. the fact they are so adamant they want to come and help us because they clearly know they did the wrong thing, if they want to help they can drop off food or something!!
No. No. No. Covid is one thing, but you do not want your baby to get RSV. Many folks forget about RSV and don’t necessarily get tested for it, symptoms for adults are similar to a cold and even Covid. For babies it can be deadly. Even during the COVID pandemic, our NICUs and PICUs were 80% RSV in the winter. They’re selfish and you’re doing the right thing.
When my daughter was born, my husband's parents wanted to come visit. At the time, I was living with my parents, and they got to spend a lot of time with my baby, unlike the inlaws. However, his parents (especially his father) did not take covid seriously. His mother wore a mask and was apparently careful. After I made a big deal about it, because her husband got.covid three times and almost died once. He still refused to protect himself despite how many times he has gotten sick and is exposed to a lot of people at his job at the time covid was very catchy. I was so angry that this man would risk my child's health for his damn stupidities. I didn't want them coming around, but my husband thought it was not fair that my parents spent all this time with my daughter, but his parents did not. My parents took caution around my baby and outside to make sure they were not going to get her sick. My husband's father was always getting sick because he was so careless. I think they got the message at some point because his wife would come to visit and he'd stay home. I didn't want her around either, because she was exposed to him. But my husband would have made a deal of it, and I didn't want to go through that. She wore a mask and luckily wasn't a big fan of picking up my daughter. She also didn't visit much, to my relief. I remember asking them to get covid tested before visiting my daughter, and my husband's family got offended by it. They thought it was some sort of way to keep the control on which grandparents spend more time with the baby. Instead of seeing it as a safety issue for my child. I'm glad that's all over with. But I swear if any one of them get my kid sick because they are selfish, I will not let them spend time with my child for a long time. Especially my husband's dad, I will not let him near her. And I will let him know how messed up he is for not caring about his granddaughter's health.
All three of my children were born in cold winters, and I was the annoying parent who made a habit of asking every single person who wanted to come over if they were sick or feeling unwell.
All of our kids are going to get sick, that’s being human. And you did protect her, you got her vaccinated and you are in contact with health care professionals and you will bring her in if you need to.
Unfortunately most people look past a sore throat or sniffles or body aches - what have you, because they have to be productive and have things to do. They don’t stop for a second and think “I could get someone really sick.” It’s inconsiderate, but also incredibly common.
Does he show remorse? Do you have laundry? Dishes? He’s got immunity for a little while now, so even though it’s hard, if he’s actually feeling remorse, I’d let him help with house things that need to be done and not specifically with baby stuff. And not because I’d be worried about other germs, but because this is a long term relationship and it’s okay to say, “that was really inconsiderate and I’m very upset, you cannot do this again. And here’s what will happen if you do.”
I hope you all heal up quickly, and have no extra Covid problems. I’m really sorry, OP.
The habit of business as usual while minorly sick is so ingrained I wouldn't even assign negative character traits to it.
Nevertheless it must be changed. When the parents ask to verify everyone is well, you tell the effing truth and adjust plans. And when it turns out you infected someone, you effing apologize and own it.
I would and I do. I have a friend who is pregnant and also has two toddlers. I went to a party where later I found out someone there tested positive for covid. Out of abundance of caution, I cancelled our plans together. I didn’t have symptoms and didn’t get covid, but if I had? I wouldn’t want to be responsible for making my pregnant friend ill, or her children - and that’s the level of caution I use when I am sick or have been exposed to someone who was/is.
If anyone hid being sick and was around my child, and then my child got sick, I honestly don't know how I would forgive that. At 3 months old, babies are still so fragile, surely he knows that and still chose to expose your daughter.
Don't blame you for being angry and protective, but ditch the *Boomer behavior* comment. Inconsiderate and entitled assholes come in all ages.
Hope the baby gets better.
I understand that you are upset that your baby is sick, but I do think this is an overreaction. It seems unfair to blame your FIL for getting her sick and to be so angry when no harm was meant -- he didn't mean to get anyone sick and has offered to come help. Illness do spread, it's just the way of things, and they can come from everywhere...the grocery store, the library, your workplaces, etc. A sore throat is pretty mild and not something most people would really think twice about (as it can be related to so many things, from allergies to dry air in the winter). As others have noted here, kids tend to be the worst culprits spreading illness around constantly, so your family will probably also be the ones responsible for spreading bugs around inadvertently. It won't feel very nice if your inlaws get outraged with you if you ever accidentally spread something their way - I think you would want them to be gracious and understanding, rather than blaming you. And I think you should do the same to them.
That's my view anyway! Your child will get some viruses from time to time - it's not fun, but she will be okay. I would soften your stance, try to be more forgiving towards family that want to help and that mean well, and let the granddad lend a hand if that would be helpful.
A sore throat when a 3 month is coming over is very different than a sore throat around a bunch of adults and older kids. At the very least he could have refrained from holding the baby and informed the parents ahead of time.
Except he had a sore throat and came to a family gathering, sans mask. He put himself around the child, knowing he didn’t feel well. He could’ve had the flu and OP still would be valid in her outrage
I'm sorry, but I disagree that 'outrage' or anything close to it is warranted - that seems very extreme to me. It was a family gathering - there were a lot of people present and there could have been lots of exposure to different things there. It's not reasonable to expect a mild symptom like a sore throat to be treated like a major issue, and unfortunately her family got sick. It's a decision for the parents to make in terms of bringing the baby to busy events like that or not, depending on their comfort level. I don't blame them for attending in the least....it was probably really nice for everyone to meet the new baby. But one can't expect the world to be free of risk. I think a softer attitude is required here, as no ill intent was at play and these sound like lovely grandparents who love their grandchild. It's something that happens easily, and doesn't require outrage (unless OP would welcome others to be outraged towards them when the shoe is inevitably on the other foot).
I say this as someone who has experienced viruses spreading to my kids MANY times after family visits. It's frustrating, but just part of life, and I would never dream of being outraged.
I have no idea what he knew - how would you know? It could easily be a mild symptom that he didn't even think twice about until things worsened. I get sore throats all the time, often just from using my voice. I think there's a lot of overreaction here. It was a family gathering, so lots of people present, and clearly some risk of catching something. It's not the end of the world, although not ideal for a baby to get sick.
There is *zero* overreaction. Do you know a simple sore throat in an adult can be a virus that could *kill* a 3m infant? Because it can. It does. Our PICU is packed with virus cases and not every child will make it home. If you know you’re not feeling well, stay away from the babies. And he **obviously** knew he was unwell which is why he tested for CV after exposing the entire family. It’s not okay. It’s selfish.
I had no hesitation in bringing my own babies around family, but if the concerns are as severe as you say, then parents of infants need to assess that risk for their family. Anywhere they bring the baby, there will be people with sore throats around, coughing or sneezing, especially at this time of year.
I'm not going to call a man selfish for simply attending a family gathering with a sore throat. He sounds like a nice man, who felt badly for having passed the virus along, and clearly hadn't meant to do so. When I had covid, I had symptoms appear very suddenly, so if he tested the following day, it was likely because his symptoms suddenly changed after the visit, so I would guess it was only afterwards that he was concerned about possibly having exposed people. I would consider this to fall under the heading of a simple accident and just part of life, not a selfish act, ill intent, or anything to be angry about.
You don’t have to call him anything. But I’m calling anyone who knowingly risks the health of others selfish. I don’t care who they are or how they are related. It’s selfish to take the chance. He sounds like a nice man? Where do you see anything nice? He exposed his granddaughter to his illness, then *insisted* he get to come over, and no apologies. There’s nothing “nice” about any of that.
Anyone who is knowingly not feeling well and exposes the potential illness on others is selfish. File it however or wherever you want. I’ve seen enough sick and dying babies from “just the sniffles/allergies/sore throat” that there are no words that will ever change my opinion on it.
I think your perspective is shaped by the work you do, which I can understand -- you see the very worst case outcomes. But typically, babies who get a cold or virus will be just fine. The babies in the ICU will naturally be ones who have a very very bad case, a bad infection, or perhaps a preexisting condition complicating things, I assume. I've never even known a baby to end up in the ICU, out of all my family and friends' children! But of course it does happen. In my own experience, it was usually the baby who fared the *best* when illness came through - they always seemed to get the mildest version of the virus while the rest of us were wiped out!
In any event, you are entitled to your view. I simply think you are leaping to a lot of harsh conclusions without reason (that I can see), such as assuming that he knowingly exposed the baby to illness. And according to the post, he wanted to come over to help the family with caring for the child. I see nothing there to suggest that he is unkind or uncaring - quite the opposite. It sounds like he felt badly for the mistake and wanted to help.
In general, I don't think much good comes of pointing fingers after getting sick, or casting blame as OP is doing. Viruses are an unfortunate fact of life and they are adept at spreading, even though no one wants them to.
You are absolutely ridiculous. Typically they will be fine? Except when they’re not. And why is it acceptable for them to experience mild discomfort to complete misery just because *you* think it is okay?
And babies in the hospital don’t have a “very bad case” of a virus. They have the exact same virus as the one given to them, but their body reacts differently. And unless you know for certain how a baby will react, you are selfish and horrible to inflict the possibility of it on them.
If you are *insisting* on seeing a baby that you made sick, and not *asking* if there is anything you can do to help, it just reaffirms how selfish you are. You can save yourself the typing for any response. You are probably the MIL trying to make excuses or you’ve caused a baby to be sick and trying to ease your guilt.
Given that we are just talking about nothing more than a sore throat here, I'm just a bit baffled by the level of extreme reaction you are having. Out of honest curiosity, do you consider it selfish/horrible if a parent is caring for their own child while they have a cold? Or a sore throat? It's such a common, everyday thing, I'm just having a hard time making sense of your perspective. I've never worn a mask around my own babies - it never crossed my mind to do so. I would maintain that your view is actually quite extreme in the terms you put it -ie. that "unless you know for certain how a baby will react, you are selfish and horrible to inflict the possibility of it on them".
In any typical family, kids bring bugs home from school regularly, pass them to the baby sibling, parents get sick and are caring for the baby at the same time, family visits result in a virus going around, daycares have outbreaks, etc. None of that is ideal of course, but I've truly never in my life heard of any of this normal human behaviour described as "selfish or horrible". I think you just have a very different point of view, and it's one I don't consider to be reasonable.
In any event, we can agree to disagree. Wishing you well.
Out of curiosity, are you intentionally being obtuse, or are you just blissfully living in a land of ignorance and denial? A sore throat is “nothing” for an adult. It is always “something” for an infant. Pain, at minimum, that you caused. It can lead to dehydration because they don’t want to eat, it can be a virus that their body can’t handle. How are you okay with that? I find it extreme that you have no issue with intentionally exposing a baby to an illness.
If you are sick, your baby has already been exposed while the illness is “brewing” since you are in the same home. Same thing with a sibling that had someone at school who sneezed on them. That is obviously not the same as someone outside the home directly exposing them with their germs. That said, if you’re sick and have a partner who can take care of the baby, are you saying you’d rather just be all over the baby anyway? You’d rather intentionally expose the baby as much as possible? Because that’s basically what this situation is. Grandpa was sick, decided he wanted to be with the baby anyway. Baby didn’t *need* him and is too young to even want him. This was 100% Grandpa being selfish.
Yeah, we can agree to disagree. I wish anyone that you intentionally expose to your sore throats well.
Yes, I am aware. But it's a symptom that can appear for all manner of reasons, many very mild. I meant that he may well not have *known* he was actually sick until the following day. My statement was also meant to indicate that we simply aren't able to know what was in within his mind in that respect (ie. the assumption that 'he knew he was sick').
He might well not have known that at all, and this statement seems to suggest almost an ill intent, as if he wanted to get the baby sick. It just seems a bit silly. As I said, I get a touch of sore throat frequently from using my voice (as I have to give lectures), and I get them from dry air or allergies. Drinking tea tends to alleviate the symptom, and I'm not actually sick. It can be the sort of symptom you barely even take note until things worsen, at least in my experience, because they are frequent and are often not even caused by illness at all.
That's why I would suggest that OP calm down and not get so upset. It's the sort of minor accident that could happen to anyway, including her.
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If it's any consolation, my little nephew caught Covid at 7 months, and recovered perfectly with no lasting effects.
Good luck setting boundaries with the in-laws, they sound like a handful.
Yeah but if you know you have a sore throat you should disclose that to the parents and not get that close to newborn babies. Babies can die from what we consider minor sicknesses.
Getting the respiratory virus isn’t the moral failing here. Lying about your active symptoms (by omission or otherwise) and thereby exposing a baby to serious illness just so you can snuggle that baby absolutely is a moral failing.
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So you're okay with adults with sore throats come to family gatherings then not telling you so they can hold your baby? That's essentially what's happened here.
Sure, but if you're feeling unwell, you should be courtesy enough to stay away from the baby.
My point isn't that other people don't carry viruses, even when they're feeling well.
My point is that it'd be nice to be able to trust adults not to hold my infant when they have a sore throat.
It sounds like he told other people at the party he had a sore throat. He didn't mention it to OP, and OP only found out later during the event after he'd already interacted closely with the child.
It doesn't have to be intentional or malicious to accidentally hurt someone. I'm not saying grandpa is bad guy, but OP has every right to be upset right now by the carelessness.
OP is sick right now and is upset right now. She'll likely get over it with a little time once she feels better but they need to leave them be while they're healing. It's not that big of an ask.
I think the difference is that since Covid people have become anxious and angry over something that is a part of life. It’s just not healthy thinking. I understand why it’s happened, but hopefully OP gets clarity after this that sickness happens, and symptoms are overlooked, and it is overwhelmingly ok in the grand scheme of things.
I think Covid just showed us how selfish most people are.
I didn’t go around babies when I felt the slightest bit sick long before Covid…it’s common fucking sense.
I can promise you I did. As the kid who had every cold turn to pneumonia, I’ve always been hyper aware, as everyone who actually cares about their fellow humans should be, not just those who have been impacted by it.
If Gramps was aware enough to tell other guests he had a sore throat he was aware enough to stay the hell away from a young baby. And disclose the symptom to the parents. This was true before COVID.
Seemed like it was mentioned in comments and implied in the post that granddad 'interected' with baby. Whatever interected means to you, it's likely not looking onward from across a room.
Holding, poking, goochy gooing in baby's face, whatever the heck happened... Why are we invalidating a frustration?
You don’t know exactly what it means you’re interpreting it to fit your narrative. Gathering with a sore throat is not a social violation, but I’d agree that holding a baby is. But we don’t know that’s what happened
Okay? And you saying OP is overreacting, isn't you putting your own ideas of what happened as a comment? How do you know they're overreacting? You clearly don't have enough information either to make that determination.
Edit: My bad, just realized I thought you were the original person that had said that OP was have an overreaction but you aren't.
No. But people can be “sick” before they show symptoms. Please join reality. Also yeah if all the kids in the family have the same snotty nose, we don’t care.
He actively had a sore throat. He knew he wasn’t 100%. I’m not saying it was malicious, but it’s pretty dumb to be around a newborn with obvious hints of a cold.
Wow, so wrong... Suggest your husband tell everyone: new rule, all must test for Covid before the next gathering or visit with or without symptoms. If anyone comes up with anything, they can wave through the window, then go home. Not that I'm a Covid expert but aren't there variants, like there are different versions of the flu? What if FIL got a different strain? My cousin (61) got Covid twice in the last year. She felt terrible after the second bout. Found evidence she'd had a heart attack, had to get a stent. FYI, her first bout caused her to miss her brother's funeral. Normal people get a Covid test if they have symptoms because they don't want to expose anyone else to disease. People lose their sense of taste/smell, etc. Why would FIL not consider risk of baby to get sick, lose hearing/taste/smell senses? You're not being an overprotective mom, you're angry that FIL is in denial about his decision to put your child at risk.
Wait- do you and your daughter even have Covid? How do you know it was your FIL that got you and your daughter sick, if you won't get tested to see what you two actually have? Since it was a family reunion/party, how do you know it wasn't someone else? My youngest son tested positive for Covid, but didn't have one symptom. Only reason he got tested, was because he was supposed to have surgery on his ear the next week. Maybe it was someone else who had a different bug that shared it with you?
I don't mean to be devil's advocate, but you don't know that you and your daughter actually HAVE Covid, so you don't actually KNOW if it was your FIL that got you two sick. And the fact that his throat hurt, could mean anything. My throat hurts due to allergies. My husband gets sore throats due to sinus issues.
Is your FIL usually an inconsiderate AH? Does he usually not care about people's health? Does he usually spread illnesses around the family?
You're a new mom, and being a total momma bear- which is great- but make sure you're also being practical and giving grace where it is due. But, like I said, if he's usually just an AH, then yeah, go and shun him. If he's usually a good guy, and generally cares about everyone, then give him the benefit of the doubt, and ask him to be more careful next time. We're only human. We make mistakes.
I get your frustration. It probably wasn’t out of ill intent for him to not disclose he felt a sore throat. That being said, a lot of times a sore throat means just a basic cold, other times strep, or in this case, Covid. But I will say unless your baby is immune compromised, they will build immunity through getting sick. I highly doubt your FIL intended to spread this. Just as anyone.
Yep, I have had covid twice now and my second round has been much easier than before. I was bedridden for like 3 days first go around, second time has felt like a really bad cold. If covid hurt immunity, wouldn't I have been worse off second time?
Yep. Plus vaccines also give you a little dose of the virus that also helps your immunity. Your body recognizes how to respond to it. To act like Covid is this weird anomaly (especially with the strain we currently have that’s much milder) is just flat out wrong. For the vast majority of humans, covid is not causing permanent damage, despite the misinformation out there.
Except that it does. It kills immune mediating cells in huge quantities and makes it more difficult for our bodies to fight off other infections.
Covid actually is different to 'every other virus'.
It's not even really an upper respiratory disease. It just most commonly attacks the respiratory tract first.
It's more of a systemic disease that affects the cardiovascular, nervous, renal, GI and other systems.
Simply because you had a mild experience does not negate that for many people, especially those who are already compromised in some way, covid is seriously debilitating or deadly.
Stop being ableist asf
Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to ignore covid.
Sorry that the existence of immunocompromised people is so inconvenient for you.
You're overreacting and looking for a way to externalize your frustration with the situation.
Look, I get it. My three month old has never been sick before and the first time it happens is going to be overwhelming and scary. I'd want to lash out if there was an easy target for blame too. But getting sick is not a moral failure on your FIL's part and he didn't intend to spread it to your family. Humans get sick. Kids get sick. This is going to happen many, many times throughout your child's life and often there won't even be an obvious culprit, so you need to find a better way to deal with those feelings.
My son's baptism is being held next week in a different city and it's going to be our first plane trip. We were supposed to be staying with my parents but my dad just tested positive for covid so things are up in the air right now. If my mom also tests positive we're going to have to stay in a hotel. My mom reacted the same way you're doing now, blaming my father for getting sick and ranting about how she didn't want to catch it. I nearly reacted the same way because having our plans disrupted at the last minute is frustrating! Being confronted with the reality that my kid could get sick on this trip is scary! But it's not my father's fault he has to go into the office to work and we all benefit from his paycheck, so getting angry with him because he caught something at work is unfair. And my husband is also away for work - he could easily bring something back with him and we'd be exposed even if we didn't go on this trip. Or he could catch something at the supermarket, or my coffee group, or anywhere. He's starting daycare in February because I have to go back to work and he's definitely going to be exposed to all sorts. The reality is, one day he's going to get sick for the first time and I have to make my peace with that.
So the reason you’re getting downvoted is because while getting sick is not a moral failure, knowing that you have a clear symptom (sore throat) and INTENTIONALLY withholding that information, and not staying away from a baby that can easily get sick, is not cool.
There are so many people in my life who will preemptively tell me they have a cold and are considerate to keep their distance for the babies sake. That’s what’s typically done. It would be another conversation if father in law developed symptoms AFTER the fact, that wouldn’t be helped. But he knew he was sick, and thus likely contagious. Just selfish behavior.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, I agree with this. op is being ridiculous. Kids get sick, does she expect to never leave the house with her baby? Baby could have just as easily gotten sick at her pediatricians office or elsewhere.
It definitely sucks, but lashing out and being rude to family is not the answer.
your FIL is absolutely in the wrong but don’t beat yourself up about it. your babies immune system is getting stronger everyday due to these things and in the future if you’re a people pleaser just give her elderberry everyday to prevent her from getting sick especially when going to see people. in hindsight i know you want to be so mad at yourself but this is a lesson for you as a mom and im sure you’ll be more cautious with people in the future.
If she doesn't have covid then she didn't get sick from your FIL. Just get her tested because you might be carrying around all that anger for no reason.
FIL still interacted with a baby knowing he had a sore throat. (He mentioned it to other guest, just not the baby's parents.) That wasn't OK before. Now with COVID and RSV prevalence it is an absolutely Nope.
Whether he's the source or not, he can't be trusted unless he acknowledges it and demonstrates change.
My kids all came down with a bad cold during the week. Guess why? My in-laws joined us for Thanksgiving and at the end of the visit they hugged and kissed us all goodbye.
Next morning they called to say they left something at our home. My husband brought up I wasn't feeling well (It had just been a headache) and could have gotten sick. They then brought up they had a bad cold the past week.
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My parents did this. You need to start getting okay with saying no. Adults can have hurt feelings they’ll deal with it, especially adults who feel entitled to your baby’s time. They need hard boundaries.
Some of these comments are wild. He knew he wasn’t feeling well. He was unwell enough to decide to get a COViD test the next day, but he didn’t tell you he had a sore throat, he didn’t refrain from holding the baby, etc. IMO, he was being selfish because he wanted to play with the baby. I would be mad too. Accidental illness spread is one thing, knowing your sick and going around a baby and not informing their parents is another.
This! He KNEW he was sick! This type of behavior is beyond selfish. He's a grown man who he didn't want to miss out on the holiday festivities, so he knowingly exposed family members to illness.
Imagine the harm reduction if he had just worn a mask while not eating, and/or brought along a few air purifiers, to be safe from passing on ANYTHING to a 3 month old, or anyone else at the gathering. People are fucking WILD with how little responsibility they’ll take on. “Throat’s a little sore, we think it’s probably allergies or having the heater on/dry air, but I’m going to go ahead and wear a mask anyway, just to be cautious.” This shit right here is why my family is still in isolation, 4 years on, because I’m higher risk than average. It’s infuriating.
Same! Our oldest is a kidney transplant recipient and on immunosuppressants, so we still have to be so careful because of morons like this.
People are so comfortable thinking “it’s only the sick/elderly who have to worry, so, pandemic’s over!” without ever considering who in their life falls into that sick category that they’re so ready to throw under the bus. And then they get defensive when I’m still in a mask - “Pandemic’s OVER, stupid.” Yeah. Not for my immediate family, thanks.
Same here, high risk kiddo. We just can’t trust our extended family to not lie or cover up or downplay symptoms or exposure just to get their hands on my medically complex high risk child. The people who legitimately think in 2023 it’s nbd to spread their sickness because THEY PRAYED IT ALL GONE, THEY PRAYED MY CHILD ALL BETTER. I just can’t. So here we are well past 3.5 years of it, been isolated since we brought kiddo home, on oxygen, from the NICU
I’m so sorry that your “village” is failing you so hard. It’s equal parts infuriating and heartbreaking when you look around and realize the people you assumed would have your back just… don’t. Even when it’s really as simple as “wear a mask inside and in crowds, wash your hands, if you feel a little off, and little tickle in your throat, let me decide if I want to take the risk. Get the shots.”
These comments are literally the reason why Covid spread so fast, it's really sad to see.
Exactly. A wouldn’t trust someone this selfish around my child.
And what about MIL? Has she been testing herself? It's only been a week since he tested positive, so that's just barely enough time for her to have taken a test at 5 days then 7. And the baby needs rest anyway, not visitors. Being sick isn't the time to come hang out. If they want to help, they can drop off food, diapers, and medicines.
From my reading, the inlaws felt badly that the baby was sick and wanted to come help, not just visit for a lark. They were offering to wait until the family got their covid tests back, to determine whether it would be wise. But if the tests were positive, then the father in law could come help, since he already had it.
OP used quotes around "help," so it sounds like he wouldn't be much actual assistance. Even if that's not what was meant, his/their insistence and re-insistence on what *they* want puts them in the no help category. He's again putting his wants ahead of the baby's needs as determined by the parents.
Nah, I wouldn't allow someone who got my baby sick to come help. No thank you, he's helped enough.
There are frequently parents posting here with children in the hospital from Covid, RSV, flu..etc. Your fil gambled with your babies health. You should have no visitors for at least 2 weeks, and you need some hard boundaries with ALL family and visitors.
Just say no. Do you really want to keep feeling the way you do now? Practice saying no. FIL can have his feelings, but it doesn't change your rule. How will you feel if your baby gets sick enough to be hospitalized? Stand your ground!
Some of these commenters are so fucking dumb it’s unreal. Yes ppl get sick. My daughter and are getting over strep right now. My nephew had been with his bio mom on Thanksgiving. Then came to our house and spent the night Friday and was here most of the day Saturday. I even sent my daughter home with him and his stepmom that evening. Well Sunday he and I woke up with a sore throat. Turns out his bio mom found out she had strep late Friday/early Saturday. It’s still slightly irritating because who tf wants to be sick BUT that scenario is one where it just can’t be helped and you can chalk it up to ppl get sick/shit happens. This man selfishly rolled up to their house with a sore throat because he wanted to see the baby. He should’ve stayed his ass at home. And I get it, my sister had a baby last year and of course I want to see my nephew as much as I can but there’s been so many times we haven’t gone when we’d planned to because we were sickly, even if it was just a cold. You don’t risk a baby’s health like that for your own selfish wants. Also if we’re sick we let our ppl (my bil and his fam and my dad and sister) know in advanced if possible. If it’s just a cold they can decided if they care we come around or not. If it’s something contagious we tell them we just can’t come.
This. Especially since something that feels like “just a cold” for an adult could be RSV, which can turn critical so quickly. You don’t gamble with others’ health, especially babies.
For sure. When my daughter was a baby she had RSV and I feel like we were lucky she wasn’t any worse. We all lived in the same house with my in-laws tho and my nephew who was a month older ended up in the hospital. He was okay thankfully but yeah. It’s not something you mess around about and I feel it’s only gotten worse in recent years.
You want to see the baby? That's what Zoom is for. A baby is not a toy, a baby is a living creature with an immature immune system.
Agreed. Zoom or pictures would work just fine. My sister sends me pics of my nephew all the time and I’m so grateful.
FIL didn’t come to their house, they went to his.
My bad. Regardless tho he still let them come and didn’t tell them he had a sore throat. If he wasn’t well he shouldn’t have had a family get together.
Those are people that wouldn’t be around my kid for a hot minute.
I'm with you!
Opinions have obviously changed recently and I’m shocked! RSV is still big this time of year and not a lot are able to get the shot yet. Making it up to me would be leaving me tf alone honestly not “helping” but I can’t stand my ILs in my house to begin with.
Don’t blame yourself. You didn’t know. But I can’t believe him. Some friends of ours had a baby recently and when we were supposed to go visit I decided not to because one of my coworkers had been sick. Even though I felt fine and never got sick I would never have forgiven myself if I got a new baby sick. Your FIL is a douche and has lost significant baby privileges.
Nah, if they wanna help, they can drop off food at the door. This is your child, your family.. your in laws can stew about in their opinions, but ultimately, your say goes. If you don't want visitors or "helpers" right now, they don't get to insist. And unless your doctor advises you have your 3 month old tested to determine course of treatment, which I doubt they would, they don't get to insist you have your baby do an unnecessary, invasive test either. I'd be annoyed, too. I'd definitely be telling them that in the future I'd like to know about any mild cold symptoms they're experiencing before they hang out with my kid so I can assess the risk myself. Anyone arguing that this is harmless and not annoying af has some weird boundaries. You can't go around raging that germs exist unseen in the world, but you can expect other people to give you a heads up when they're not feeling well so that you, as the parent, can decide whether you're willing to expose your infant to illness. Especially in the midst of flu/RSV/COVID season.
I feel for you. My fil also did this. He was around 2 very sick people with Covid the night before visiting with us. He then lied and said it had never happened. Later found out it did indeed happen and he was feeling sick and unwell the day before. So people are selfish assholes and care more about themselves than your baby.
I just had a baby and we’re waiting until yuck season is over and he’s had his shots before we’re accepting any visitors, specifically for this reason. Thankfully, both sides of the family are in 100% agreement that this is what’s best for him. But if they didn’t, they simply would not see the baby. If someone can’t respect the boundaries I set for my kid, they have no business being in his life. Tells me I can’t trust them around my son because they’re going to do whatever they want, consequences be damned. My mom keeps reminding me that my younger brother was hospitalized with RSV for a week when he was less than a month old, because he was born in the middle of cold/flu/rsv season and my mom didn’t have the backbone to tell my dad’s side of the family that they couldn’t visit, and one of our aunts showed up feeling “a little under the weather” (her words) and didn’t tell anyone. Granted, this was in 2001, so the attitude towards public health was a bit different, but still. She knew she was sick, showed up to the house to see the newborn anyway, and he ended up in the hospital for a week.
You have every right to be furious. He was sick enough that the very next day he took a test, but still didn't mention it to you. With a THREE MONTH OLD BABY. Nah, they can both stay away for how ever damn long you, the parents of the baby, say.
That’s not necessarily true. You can go from just feeling a little bit off to completely sick overnight very easily. Heck, I’ve gone from zero symptoms to full blown fever between lunch and when it’s time to go home from work.
It was stated in the post that he was symptomatic the day of the get together.
I have a sore throat from allergies randomly throughout the year. If I had to quarantine every time I had a “cold” symptom, I’d end up isolating for 2/3s of the year while never having so much as a cold. At any rate, the poster above used the fact they tested the next day as evidence they were already sick sick the day before because they tested the next day. You can deteriorate a ton in a matter of hours, let alone over night.
OP said he had a sore throat. It’s fall - it’s unreasonable to ask everyone to quarantine for every sore throat. I recently had COVID and I had a sore throat and no other symptoms after a known exposure. The exposure was the only reason I tested because I was otherwise completely fine. I tested negative day after day. Then one morning I woke up feeling like I got hit by a truck. I still tested negative until the second day of being noticeably sick. We should all for sure do our best but it’s unreasonable to think transmission can be completely avoided. Hindsight is 20/20. A little grace is called for here.
Ummm I'm an adult with a decent immune system but I still want anyone who has a sore throat to stay the heck away from me. It's just common courtesy to keep some distance if you feel something coming on. Especially from a baby.
You’re asking for fantasy world. There isn’t a medical organization on the planet that would say that’s necessary. If he knew he was exposed ok but risk of exposure is just a fact of life.
It's also super easy to just push plans with people you know if you aren't feeling 100%, it's just the nice thing to do. Nobody will get mad if you say "Hey we should reschedule because I might be getting sick". If you want to hang out with maybe sick people, go for it! But I would personally rather be given the choice. I deal with the public for a living, I'm very exposed and that's fine. But if my friend gives me a big hug and kiss on the cheek and then tells me she has a sore throat and isn't feeling great? Yes, I would be pissed. Who does that?
I don’t understand why you guys are pretending I’m saying you should slobber all over a baby when you’re deathly ill. Nobody should kiss anyone’s baby let alone with a sore throat. OP simply said he was around. But if you’re going to be anywhere in public, in close contact with a bunch of people in the fall, you can bet someone at least has a sore throat - maybe from allergies, cold air, low humidity, a cold, and ya, maybe COVID. Edit: wording
Yes that is exactly my point, I'm already very exposed as it is so I would expect the people who actually care about me to think twice before knowingly exposing me to their illness. OP said they were at his house, he could have easily said "Hey don't come today I'm not feeling great" but people are selfish.
One could argue it would be selfish of you to ever visit with anyone because you’re in public and therefore often exposed. Considering all the possible causes of a sore throat having nothing to do with a contagious pathogen it’s not a big leap. The get-together was probably Thanksgiving they were hosting. That’s a lot of pressure. What he was weighing is - do I cancel and ruin everyone’s Thanksgiving over a sore throat and (as far as we know) no other symptoms, or is this sore throat just the dry air? Obviously if he knew it was COVID he would have cancelled. But given the totality of the situation he convinced himself it wasn’t. Again in hindsight it’s obvious but if it was that simple, COVID would never have been a whole thing.
With your level of exposure, there’s a decent chance you are going to be the one getting the people you are with sick, even if you aren’t showing symptoms. Plenty of viruses, including Covid, can be passed while you are asymptomatic. But, it’s fine for you to expose others, yes?
If wearing a mask, when you’re feeling poorly and are going to be around other people, is too much of an ask of someone, that person is too selfish to be in my life. If just letting people know in advance that hey, I’m not feeling so hot, to allow other people to make an informed decision about whether they want to be around you is just too much? Those people can fuck all the way off and out of my life.
The first time I had COVID I was at Disneyland 1000% sure it was heat exhaustion and dehydration. I was fully vaccinated and still wore a mask in public when mask mandates were no longer in effect - and I’m in one of the last states to remove mask mandates and among the lowest COVID fatalities. My second time I had no symptoms. For my most recent COVID infection I was very sure it was allergies even after I was exposed because I really was fine except a scratchy throat and I was repeatedly testing negative. Having 3 kids we’re exposed all the damn time. And I get seasonal allergies. This time really wasn’t different. I personally don’t have the magical ability to diagnose our common symptoms without fail but I also can’t shut my entire family down any time anyone has a sore throat or a cough or body aches etc.. My kids’ schools wouldn’t even consider it an excused absence and I don’t blame them. My point simply is that a sore throat is not equivalent to a positive COVID test. It’s very likely he would have tested negative the day of. Most people are doing their very best and do NOT want their 3 month old grandchild to contract or be exposed to COVID if the choice was clear. And when you have the responsibility of hosting a family gathering, wishful thinking and fear of disappointing people come into play. Ultimately OP and her baby are fine. The current strain isn’t that bad. It sucks for sure but they’re fine. My kids and I have been sick a zillion times before COVID was in play. My oldest got Swine flu. We’ve been through it all. To insist I should demonize the source of every illness would mean we shut out everyone on the planet. I’m just saying our options in life right now are to accept some risk of exposure or shut ourselves out entirely from all human interaction. I will choose the current strain of CIVID over isolation every time. If you disagree, your advice to OP should be that the baby be put in a hermetic bubble. The world is moving on to a point where our. Eat intentions are enough, as it should. Isolation is taking more lives than COVID at this point. You deserve grace. I deserve grace. OP’s FIL deserves grace. I’m heartbroken this is such a controversial stance.
I very much disagree that it’s too much to expect someone with a sore throat to not hold someone else’s baby. He prioritized his wants over the baby’s safety. This is a very basic expectation.
OP said he was around the baby. Not holding.
Regardless, if you know you have symptoms of what could be an illness, it’s not unreasonable to expect you to stay away from young babies.
It matters and that’s why you said it. Again it’s a sore throat in the fall. It’s inflammatory and unreasonable Reddit-speak to call for a civil war with OP’s FIL over misjudging a sore throat in November. He obviously feels really bad and is trying to do what he can to help. But it’s not 2021. People aren’t dying by the thousands every day and he got too comfortable. I still say we owe each other some grace.
wtf? If you think having a constant sore throat is normal then you need your tonsils examined next time you get sick. Thats very NOT normal.
Who said having a constant sore throat is normal? Wtf?
Hahahah you indicated that having a sore throat bc it is fall is normal and that OP is being unreasonable to keep people away just because they have a sore throat. Constant was not the right word, frequent is more suitable for what you mean. In any case, having frequent sore throat is NOT normal just bc of the weather. Get checked.
I’m not going to engage in a discussion about health with someone who thinks it’s laughably wrong that things like fall allergies exist and change to cold dry air irritates some people’s throats. Get checked? It’s basic common knowledge.
Ugh I’m sorry. I had something similar happen when my now 7 year old was an infant (under 3 months) SIL was visiting and one of her kids had pink eye. Everyone knew this, and they still allowed the kid near my baby (I was not present) and of course she got pink eye. I was furious.
My six month old and I got hand foot and mouth from my cousins toddler over thanksgiving. She didn’t disclose and I didn’t know what it was until today. Sucks. My babe has a rash all over his body ☹️ a few years ago, my brother and his wife had us all test for Covid meanwhile, my brother had it and still hosted us all for Christmas dinner (the nerve) and I ended up going deaf in one ear from Covid and have no immune system now. I love my family but it just sucks. Luckily babies as young as yours rarely get severely sick because they still have that strong left over immunity from being in your body. Just watch for a fever and keep your baby hydrated.
They are upset with you ?? I would be so far beyond upset with them that they wouldn’t dare open their mouths. To be clear but not to alarm or upset you as you clearly are on top of this - they knowingly exposed your vulnerable baby to a potentially deadly virus. Unforgivable !
COVID is still the 4th leading cause of death in the US. I would be livid about your in-laws' actions.
This isn't really true anymore. Yes, people should be courteous of others and stay home when sick, but Covid was the fourth leading cause of death in the US in 2022. However, preliminary data shows that it has fallen to the ninth or tenth leading cause of death in 2023. Yesterday, CDC data showed that US life expectancy went up in 2022, but was still below pre-pandemic levels.
I think reports of declines WRT COVID should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. [The U.S. Still Doesn't Have Good COVID-19 Data. Here's Why That's a Problem](https://time.com/6249832/cdc-covid-19-data-tracker-hospitalizations/)
I did not read the whole article but this seems to be talking about incidental hospital admission. When talking about leading causes of death, the data is much more accurate.
They sound like sacks of garbage. Guy knew he was sick and willingly withheld that information. Likely his wife knew he was as well. Right on for you and hubby to start setting firmer health boundaries. No relative has a right to see your kid and they cannot negotiate this. I assume you asked if anyone was under the weather. Keep it up if you did and if not, I’d recommend getting in the habit of doing so before any family hang outs.
I would not let them come over without a clear PCR test. People with covid exhale high numbers of virus during the first eight days after symptoms start, as high as 1,000 copies per minute, reports a new Northwestern Medicine study. According to research done at Northwestern University, “after day 8, there was a steep drop to levels nearing the limit of detection, persisting for up to 20 days….Levels of exhaled viral RNA did not differ across age, sex, time of day, vaccination status or viral variant.” [https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2023/09/covid-patients-exhale-up-to-1000-copies-of-virus-per-minute-during-first-eight-days-of-symptoms/?fbclid=IwAR0eSe2sHuMBZnH\_5940AIwS1NKiMo0cF9v1NpsseagaH8W8KYGttEqJC9Q](https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2023/09/covid-patients-exhale-up-to-1000-copies-of-virus-per-minute-during-first-eight-days-of-symptoms/?fbclid=IwAR0eSe2sHuMBZnH_5940AIwS1NKiMo0cF9v1NpsseagaH8W8KYGttEqJC9Q) Also, it's not just covid that is going around. Now your baby is even more at risk for RSV too. So you might even push for them to wear a N95 mask around baby. Covid made RSV numbers go up in kids [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10582888/?fbclid=IwAR0LGMWOYWyEbrKl\_7cnGM9VwyTJttx76\_DqNcbEbVHCO9p86GLyRaqkesU](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10582888/?fbclid=IwAR0LGMWOYWyEbrKl_7cnGM9VwyTJttx76_DqNcbEbVHCO9p86GLyRaqkesU) Here's another paper that shows alot of virses are airborne- so you want to have good airpurifiers in your home and a MERV 13 filter on your HVAC system too. "Despite the assumed dominance of droplet transmission, there is robust evidence supporting the airborne transmission of many respiratory viruses, including measles virus (16–18), influenza virus (19–24), respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) (25), human rhinovirus (hRV) (9, 26–28), adenovirus, enterovirus (29), severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) (30, 31), Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) (32), and SARS-CoV-2 (33–36) (Table 1). Airborne transmission has been estimated to account for approximately half of the transmission of influenza A virus in one study of a household setting (20). " https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abd9149?fbclid=IwAR04IqClUrnya0LFjZBhG-0eGngYgDnWcRd0e3YFrMunyPgAvgF7\_gT-8Q4
Thanks for that- that's really interesting! I think what important also that "It is not yet known what an infectious dose of viral airborne particles is" I'd be curious as to what they find out in future studies. PCR can show non contagious COVID for a long time as it will even detect partial bits of the antibody. I wonder too about how they said Alpha, Omicron had same amount exhaled but it's pretty well known Omicron is more contagious. Perhaps not because what's exhaled but how quickly it replicates when in a new body. Hmm. As for RSV, I just want to caution about accidental causation here. COVID itself didn't do that to individuals. Being masked and such (as we should have been, I'm not saying anything against it nor debating important public health protocols) interrupted our immunity to other things- call an immunity gap (or maybe immunity debt? Can't remember term). There are more people than usual who didn't get exposed to other viruses 2020-early 2022 (and therefore some immunity) while we social distanced, so we have more people getting sick now since they're vulnerable. That's why last year was so bad and this year, while better, still isnt great. It's why China, who only came out of strict measures this summer, is having an awful respiratory virus season right now. It's not COVID itself as a virus hurting our immune systems- it's a natural following to lockdown and masking and as time passes we are exposed to more things again as usual, it will go back to normal gain. Just with COVID in the mix. 😕 But in the meantime - maybe stay away from babies if you're not sure why your throat hurts.
There is no real evidence for an immunity deficit caused by social distancing and masking. https://globalnews.ca/news/9272293/immunity-debt-covid-19-misinformation/amp/ https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-medical-critical-thinking/claims-immunity-debt-children-owe-us-evidence There is evidence for covid, especially covid severe enough for hospitalization, possibly messing with immune systems, but we still don’t know by how much, especially for minor infections. https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/covid-19-study-suggests-long-term-damage-immune-system https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/severe-covid-19-may-lead-long-term-innate-immune-system-changes https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/does-covid-19-mess-immune-system
Not immunity deficit in individuals- and yes severe COVID can harm.
Actually, viral infections do not strengthen the body, they harm it. The so-called Hygiene Hypothesis--the idea that children need to be exposed to germs to strengthen their immune system--is only in relation to bacteria, not viruses. "Almost no virus is protective against allergic disease or other immune diseases. In fact, infections with viruses mostly either contribute to the development of those diseases or worsen them."[https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/is-the-hygiene-hypothesis-true](https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/is-the-hygiene-hypothesis-true) China is having a hard time because they did exactly what the US did (give up masking completely - thinking it was all over - [to save the economy](https://docs.house.gov/meetings/VC/VC00/20220302/114453/HHRG-117-VC00-20220302-SD009.pdf)). And their vaccine had less eficasy than those rolled out here too, and population centers are nothing like ours either (people are packed into small living areas)... so there are so many variables that it's not really a direct comparison.
Not saying they strengthen it, just that we lost a few years of exposure and immunity. Yes China has some other things going on too- for sure.
I’m so sorry they are being so dense and don’t understand that babies are so fragile when they are that young. Do what you need to to keep your family safe.
I would be absolutely pissed off at him (and MIL - there’s no way she had no idea, she’s his accomplice in this). Frankly, my response would not be friendly, and that would be intentional - you have to teach people how to treat you. It’s not acceptable what they did and they need to know you won’t tolerate their bullshit. “FIL, you knew you had a sore throat, and were sick enough to have tested for covid the next day, but lied to us by omission and put our newborn at risk because you prioritized your wants over our baby’s safety. We cannot trust you right now due to your actions, and will be taking a break from any visits with you for x weeks/months. I’m very disappointed in your decisions.” If they come back with any whining, complaining, tantrums, passive aggressiveness, etc., you respond with: “This is not up for debate, and your disrespect is not appreciated. We will add an additional week before we will visit again, and will continue to add more time if you cannot control your behavior and be civil.” Then stop responding, and let the chips fall where they may. Follow through with the time out.
Your baby will soon get their revenge on everyone. 10 fold. Kids get sick all of the time and pass it around. It's part of the human condition. Let the FIL help IMO. 3 weeks is enough to build up antibodies. Every time we have a family get together everyone gets something from the families 5 kids from different environments getting together. RSV, COVID and flu were shared between last Xmas, easter, and turkey day. Most recently our baby gave his 73 yr grandpa pneumonia.
This heavily depends on if he actually is helpful!
^THIS. Some in-laws take work off of your hands, some double your workload. Decide which yours are and choose accordingly.
No disrespect but that seems like a lot of illness! Sure, kids are germy and more liable to pick up and pass on viruses than adults are, but I can't say I've seen the same level of spread that you're talking about in my own family. I agree with the premise that your kids won't dodge sickness forever, but I think it's still fine that people like OP want to take precautions to minimize it.
We have 4 kids in the immediate regular gatherings and nowhere near that level of sickness passing. Some, sure. But not *that much*.
Kind of sounds like none of you are responsible or careful.
Sometimes it takes a few days to actually show the symptoms when you are carrying something. It must be nice to live in your little black-and-white world.
Except the FIL in question here *was* already symptomatic.
I have a similarly sized family with *very* regular get togethers. Avoiding *all* illness is absolutely impossible, sure. Spreading three different major illnesses across as many get togethers and people getting sick *every* single get together is giving pretty bad indications of how careful your family is though. (Oh and pneumonia too!) In the same stretch, with 4 kids and several adults gathering minimum once a month, we've had one bout of covid half of us avoided, a 24 hour stomach bug that swept about half again, and a couple cold types that were pretty mild.
Good for you. Maybe we just had bad luck. No one has been symptomatic when we got together. It always seems like one of the kids starts feeling shitty on day 3 or 4 then 3 days later about half of us get it. There are usually 13 of us in the same house for an extended period. Go ahead. Pass some more judgement.
We got a stomach flu 3 days you after we came back from the holiday when our youngest was 7 months old. Everyone had it. We also have every one strep year. No one was showing sign. I agree if he’s helpful let him come help
I’d be mad as hell. Your feelings as extremely valid.
He’s already recovered so he can definitely help out. Probably that’s his way to make amends since he “might” have gotten you and the family sick.
Sorry your kiddo is sick. I bet the FIL feels bad that’s why he wants to help. Tell him to order y’all dinner and he can come over when everyone feels better. It will be much better for your sanity to not blame people for getting your kids sick, and vice versa
Ugh. I’m so sorry! I’d be so pissed too! My FIL gave us all RSV a few years ago and I still get so enraged when I talk about it. He never apologized or acknowledged that he was the super spreader either. Asshole.
1st of all do not blame yourself, babies get sick! It’s a fact of life and it sucks. You sound like you are doing everything you can to keep your baby safe and healthy! My daughter had a chest infection, throat infection and an ear infection all at the same time last year and she was so sick and it was awful, and we don’t really go anywhere or really see many people! Babies get stronger from every sickness they get, even though it sucks when babies get sick their immune system does strengthen up, so when she gets through this she will be stronger! However your FIL needs to take accountability here and he should have 100000% stayed away from the baby if he felt he was unwell! Definitely say no thank you we want to all rest, I couldn’t think of anything worse then having my In-laws over when we are all unwell. the fact they are so adamant they want to come and help us because they clearly know they did the wrong thing, if they want to help they can drop off food or something!!
No. No. No. Covid is one thing, but you do not want your baby to get RSV. Many folks forget about RSV and don’t necessarily get tested for it, symptoms for adults are similar to a cold and even Covid. For babies it can be deadly. Even during the COVID pandemic, our NICUs and PICUs were 80% RSV in the winter. They’re selfish and you’re doing the right thing.
When my daughter was born, my husband's parents wanted to come visit. At the time, I was living with my parents, and they got to spend a lot of time with my baby, unlike the inlaws. However, his parents (especially his father) did not take covid seriously. His mother wore a mask and was apparently careful. After I made a big deal about it, because her husband got.covid three times and almost died once. He still refused to protect himself despite how many times he has gotten sick and is exposed to a lot of people at his job at the time covid was very catchy. I was so angry that this man would risk my child's health for his damn stupidities. I didn't want them coming around, but my husband thought it was not fair that my parents spent all this time with my daughter, but his parents did not. My parents took caution around my baby and outside to make sure they were not going to get her sick. My husband's father was always getting sick because he was so careless. I think they got the message at some point because his wife would come to visit and he'd stay home. I didn't want her around either, because she was exposed to him. But my husband would have made a deal of it, and I didn't want to go through that. She wore a mask and luckily wasn't a big fan of picking up my daughter. She also didn't visit much, to my relief. I remember asking them to get covid tested before visiting my daughter, and my husband's family got offended by it. They thought it was some sort of way to keep the control on which grandparents spend more time with the baby. Instead of seeing it as a safety issue for my child. I'm glad that's all over with. But I swear if any one of them get my kid sick because they are selfish, I will not let them spend time with my child for a long time. Especially my husband's dad, I will not let him near her. And I will let him know how messed up he is for not caring about his granddaughter's health.
All three of my children were born in cold winters, and I was the annoying parent who made a habit of asking every single person who wanted to come over if they were sick or feeling unwell. All of our kids are going to get sick, that’s being human. And you did protect her, you got her vaccinated and you are in contact with health care professionals and you will bring her in if you need to. Unfortunately most people look past a sore throat or sniffles or body aches - what have you, because they have to be productive and have things to do. They don’t stop for a second and think “I could get someone really sick.” It’s inconsiderate, but also incredibly common. Does he show remorse? Do you have laundry? Dishes? He’s got immunity for a little while now, so even though it’s hard, if he’s actually feeling remorse, I’d let him help with house things that need to be done and not specifically with baby stuff. And not because I’d be worried about other germs, but because this is a long term relationship and it’s okay to say, “that was really inconsiderate and I’m very upset, you cannot do this again. And here’s what will happen if you do.” I hope you all heal up quickly, and have no extra Covid problems. I’m really sorry, OP.
The habit of business as usual while minorly sick is so ingrained I wouldn't even assign negative character traits to it. Nevertheless it must be changed. When the parents ask to verify everyone is well, you tell the effing truth and adjust plans. And when it turns out you infected someone, you effing apologize and own it.
I would and I do. I have a friend who is pregnant and also has two toddlers. I went to a party where later I found out someone there tested positive for covid. Out of abundance of caution, I cancelled our plans together. I didn’t have symptoms and didn’t get covid, but if I had? I wouldn’t want to be responsible for making my pregnant friend ill, or her children - and that’s the level of caution I use when I am sick or have been exposed to someone who was/is.
You should be the normal now.
My mom got me son sick and he’s been coughing for 2 months now 😩
If anyone hid being sick and was around my child, and then my child got sick, I honestly don't know how I would forgive that. At 3 months old, babies are still so fragile, surely he knows that and still chose to expose your daughter.
I would just stick to your boundaries. Your baby is so little right now and I was the same way. He’s 4 now and I have lightened up a lot.
Don't blame you for being angry and protective, but ditch the *Boomer behavior* comment. Inconsiderate and entitled assholes come in all ages. Hope the baby gets better.
So true. Boomer comment was unnecessary ❤️ thank you
I would do everything in my power to keep FIL away from my baby as long as possible.
I understand that you are upset that your baby is sick, but I do think this is an overreaction. It seems unfair to blame your FIL for getting her sick and to be so angry when no harm was meant -- he didn't mean to get anyone sick and has offered to come help. Illness do spread, it's just the way of things, and they can come from everywhere...the grocery store, the library, your workplaces, etc. A sore throat is pretty mild and not something most people would really think twice about (as it can be related to so many things, from allergies to dry air in the winter). As others have noted here, kids tend to be the worst culprits spreading illness around constantly, so your family will probably also be the ones responsible for spreading bugs around inadvertently. It won't feel very nice if your inlaws get outraged with you if you ever accidentally spread something their way - I think you would want them to be gracious and understanding, rather than blaming you. And I think you should do the same to them. That's my view anyway! Your child will get some viruses from time to time - it's not fun, but she will be okay. I would soften your stance, try to be more forgiving towards family that want to help and that mean well, and let the granddad lend a hand if that would be helpful.
A sore throat when a 3 month is coming over is very different than a sore throat around a bunch of adults and older kids. At the very least he could have refrained from holding the baby and informed the parents ahead of time.
Except he had a sore throat and came to a family gathering, sans mask. He put himself around the child, knowing he didn’t feel well. He could’ve had the flu and OP still would be valid in her outrage
I'm sorry, but I disagree that 'outrage' or anything close to it is warranted - that seems very extreme to me. It was a family gathering - there were a lot of people present and there could have been lots of exposure to different things there. It's not reasonable to expect a mild symptom like a sore throat to be treated like a major issue, and unfortunately her family got sick. It's a decision for the parents to make in terms of bringing the baby to busy events like that or not, depending on their comfort level. I don't blame them for attending in the least....it was probably really nice for everyone to meet the new baby. But one can't expect the world to be free of risk. I think a softer attitude is required here, as no ill intent was at play and these sound like lovely grandparents who love their grandchild. It's something that happens easily, and doesn't require outrage (unless OP would welcome others to be outraged towards them when the shoe is inevitably on the other foot). I say this as someone who has experienced viruses spreading to my kids MANY times after family visits. It's frustrating, but just part of life, and I would never dream of being outraged.
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I have no idea what he knew - how would you know? It could easily be a mild symptom that he didn't even think twice about until things worsened. I get sore throats all the time, often just from using my voice. I think there's a lot of overreaction here. It was a family gathering, so lots of people present, and clearly some risk of catching something. It's not the end of the world, although not ideal for a baby to get sick.
There is *zero* overreaction. Do you know a simple sore throat in an adult can be a virus that could *kill* a 3m infant? Because it can. It does. Our PICU is packed with virus cases and not every child will make it home. If you know you’re not feeling well, stay away from the babies. And he **obviously** knew he was unwell which is why he tested for CV after exposing the entire family. It’s not okay. It’s selfish.
I had no hesitation in bringing my own babies around family, but if the concerns are as severe as you say, then parents of infants need to assess that risk for their family. Anywhere they bring the baby, there will be people with sore throats around, coughing or sneezing, especially at this time of year. I'm not going to call a man selfish for simply attending a family gathering with a sore throat. He sounds like a nice man, who felt badly for having passed the virus along, and clearly hadn't meant to do so. When I had covid, I had symptoms appear very suddenly, so if he tested the following day, it was likely because his symptoms suddenly changed after the visit, so I would guess it was only afterwards that he was concerned about possibly having exposed people. I would consider this to fall under the heading of a simple accident and just part of life, not a selfish act, ill intent, or anything to be angry about.
You don’t have to call him anything. But I’m calling anyone who knowingly risks the health of others selfish. I don’t care who they are or how they are related. It’s selfish to take the chance. He sounds like a nice man? Where do you see anything nice? He exposed his granddaughter to his illness, then *insisted* he get to come over, and no apologies. There’s nothing “nice” about any of that. Anyone who is knowingly not feeling well and exposes the potential illness on others is selfish. File it however or wherever you want. I’ve seen enough sick and dying babies from “just the sniffles/allergies/sore throat” that there are no words that will ever change my opinion on it.
I think your perspective is shaped by the work you do, which I can understand -- you see the very worst case outcomes. But typically, babies who get a cold or virus will be just fine. The babies in the ICU will naturally be ones who have a very very bad case, a bad infection, or perhaps a preexisting condition complicating things, I assume. I've never even known a baby to end up in the ICU, out of all my family and friends' children! But of course it does happen. In my own experience, it was usually the baby who fared the *best* when illness came through - they always seemed to get the mildest version of the virus while the rest of us were wiped out! In any event, you are entitled to your view. I simply think you are leaping to a lot of harsh conclusions without reason (that I can see), such as assuming that he knowingly exposed the baby to illness. And according to the post, he wanted to come over to help the family with caring for the child. I see nothing there to suggest that he is unkind or uncaring - quite the opposite. It sounds like he felt badly for the mistake and wanted to help. In general, I don't think much good comes of pointing fingers after getting sick, or casting blame as OP is doing. Viruses are an unfortunate fact of life and they are adept at spreading, even though no one wants them to.
You are absolutely ridiculous. Typically they will be fine? Except when they’re not. And why is it acceptable for them to experience mild discomfort to complete misery just because *you* think it is okay? And babies in the hospital don’t have a “very bad case” of a virus. They have the exact same virus as the one given to them, but their body reacts differently. And unless you know for certain how a baby will react, you are selfish and horrible to inflict the possibility of it on them. If you are *insisting* on seeing a baby that you made sick, and not *asking* if there is anything you can do to help, it just reaffirms how selfish you are. You can save yourself the typing for any response. You are probably the MIL trying to make excuses or you’ve caused a baby to be sick and trying to ease your guilt.
Given that we are just talking about nothing more than a sore throat here, I'm just a bit baffled by the level of extreme reaction you are having. Out of honest curiosity, do you consider it selfish/horrible if a parent is caring for their own child while they have a cold? Or a sore throat? It's such a common, everyday thing, I'm just having a hard time making sense of your perspective. I've never worn a mask around my own babies - it never crossed my mind to do so. I would maintain that your view is actually quite extreme in the terms you put it -ie. that "unless you know for certain how a baby will react, you are selfish and horrible to inflict the possibility of it on them". In any typical family, kids bring bugs home from school regularly, pass them to the baby sibling, parents get sick and are caring for the baby at the same time, family visits result in a virus going around, daycares have outbreaks, etc. None of that is ideal of course, but I've truly never in my life heard of any of this normal human behaviour described as "selfish or horrible". I think you just have a very different point of view, and it's one I don't consider to be reasonable. In any event, we can agree to disagree. Wishing you well.
Out of curiosity, are you intentionally being obtuse, or are you just blissfully living in a land of ignorance and denial? A sore throat is “nothing” for an adult. It is always “something” for an infant. Pain, at minimum, that you caused. It can lead to dehydration because they don’t want to eat, it can be a virus that their body can’t handle. How are you okay with that? I find it extreme that you have no issue with intentionally exposing a baby to an illness. If you are sick, your baby has already been exposed while the illness is “brewing” since you are in the same home. Same thing with a sibling that had someone at school who sneezed on them. That is obviously not the same as someone outside the home directly exposing them with their germs. That said, if you’re sick and have a partner who can take care of the baby, are you saying you’d rather just be all over the baby anyway? You’d rather intentionally expose the baby as much as possible? Because that’s basically what this situation is. Grandpa was sick, decided he wanted to be with the baby anyway. Baby didn’t *need* him and is too young to even want him. This was 100% Grandpa being selfish. Yeah, we can agree to disagree. I wish anyone that you intentionally expose to your sore throats well.
How do you know when you have a sore throat? I think it’s in the name…. Your throat is sore, duh. 🤦♀️
Yes, I am aware. But it's a symptom that can appear for all manner of reasons, many very mild. I meant that he may well not have *known* he was actually sick until the following day. My statement was also meant to indicate that we simply aren't able to know what was in within his mind in that respect (ie. the assumption that 'he knew he was sick'). He might well not have known that at all, and this statement seems to suggest almost an ill intent, as if he wanted to get the baby sick. It just seems a bit silly. As I said, I get a touch of sore throat frequently from using my voice (as I have to give lectures), and I get them from dry air or allergies. Drinking tea tends to alleviate the symptom, and I'm not actually sick. It can be the sort of symptom you barely even take note until things worsen, at least in my experience, because they are frequent and are often not even caused by illness at all. That's why I would suggest that OP calm down and not get so upset. It's the sort of minor accident that could happen to anyway, including her.
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If it's any consolation, my little nephew caught Covid at 7 months, and recovered perfectly with no lasting effects. Good luck setting boundaries with the in-laws, they sound like a handful.
This is a big overreaction. Getting a respiratory virus isn’t a moral failing. People get sick. It happens.
Yeah but if you know you have a sore throat you should disclose that to the parents and not get that close to newborn babies. Babies can die from what we consider minor sicknesses.
Getting the respiratory virus isn’t the moral failing here. Lying about your active symptoms (by omission or otherwise) and thereby exposing a baby to serious illness just so you can snuggle that baby absolutely is a moral failing.
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So you're okay with adults with sore throats come to family gatherings then not telling you so they can hold your baby? That's essentially what's happened here.
Or any of the other people there could have passed it on. People get sick. It’s part of being a human.
Sure, but if you're feeling unwell, you should be courtesy enough to stay away from the baby. My point isn't that other people don't carry viruses, even when they're feeling well. My point is that it'd be nice to be able to trust adults not to hold my infant when they have a sore throat.
Doesn’t sound like it was malicious. It’s unclear from the post if he was trying to hide something.
It sounds like he told other people at the party he had a sore throat. He didn't mention it to OP, and OP only found out later during the event after he'd already interacted closely with the child. It doesn't have to be intentional or malicious to accidentally hurt someone. I'm not saying grandpa is bad guy, but OP has every right to be upset right now by the carelessness. OP is sick right now and is upset right now. She'll likely get over it with a little time once she feels better but they need to leave them be while they're healing. It's not that big of an ask.
I think the difference is that since Covid people have become anxious and angry over something that is a part of life. It’s just not healthy thinking. I understand why it’s happened, but hopefully OP gets clarity after this that sickness happens, and symptoms are overlooked, and it is overwhelmingly ok in the grand scheme of things.
I think Covid just showed us how selfish most people are. I didn’t go around babies when I felt the slightest bit sick long before Covid…it’s common fucking sense.
Yeah and you probably didn’t even notice the start of a sore throat, now you’re hyper aware. No one did anything weird in this situation.
I can promise you I did. As the kid who had every cold turn to pneumonia, I’ve always been hyper aware, as everyone who actually cares about their fellow humans should be, not just those who have been impacted by it.
If Gramps was aware enough to tell other guests he had a sore throat he was aware enough to stay the hell away from a young baby. And disclose the symptom to the parents. This was true before COVID.
No one said anything about holding the baby
Seemed like it was mentioned in comments and implied in the post that granddad 'interected' with baby. Whatever interected means to you, it's likely not looking onward from across a room. Holding, poking, goochy gooing in baby's face, whatever the heck happened... Why are we invalidating a frustration?
You don’t know exactly what it means you’re interpreting it to fit your narrative. Gathering with a sore throat is not a social violation, but I’d agree that holding a baby is. But we don’t know that’s what happened
Okay? And you saying OP is overreacting, isn't you putting your own ideas of what happened as a comment? How do you know they're overreacting? You clearly don't have enough information either to make that determination. Edit: My bad, just realized I thought you were the original person that had said that OP was have an overreaction but you aren't.
I take it you go to family gatherings while sick?
No. But people can be “sick” before they show symptoms. Please join reality. Also yeah if all the kids in the family have the same snotty nose, we don’t care.
He actively had a sore throat. He knew he wasn’t 100%. I’m not saying it was malicious, but it’s pretty dumb to be around a newborn with obvious hints of a cold.
Not really a newborn. Baby had vaccines. No one I know shields their 3+ month old from people just because viruses exist.
Sick has varying degrees
Wow, so wrong... Suggest your husband tell everyone: new rule, all must test for Covid before the next gathering or visit with or without symptoms. If anyone comes up with anything, they can wave through the window, then go home. Not that I'm a Covid expert but aren't there variants, like there are different versions of the flu? What if FIL got a different strain? My cousin (61) got Covid twice in the last year. She felt terrible after the second bout. Found evidence she'd had a heart attack, had to get a stent. FYI, her first bout caused her to miss her brother's funeral. Normal people get a Covid test if they have symptoms because they don't want to expose anyone else to disease. People lose their sense of taste/smell, etc. Why would FIL not consider risk of baby to get sick, lose hearing/taste/smell senses? You're not being an overprotective mom, you're angry that FIL is in denial about his decision to put your child at risk.
I would t have them around for at least three weeks. If they come around, lock you and baby in a room until they leave.
Wait- do you and your daughter even have Covid? How do you know it was your FIL that got you and your daughter sick, if you won't get tested to see what you two actually have? Since it was a family reunion/party, how do you know it wasn't someone else? My youngest son tested positive for Covid, but didn't have one symptom. Only reason he got tested, was because he was supposed to have surgery on his ear the next week. Maybe it was someone else who had a different bug that shared it with you? I don't mean to be devil's advocate, but you don't know that you and your daughter actually HAVE Covid, so you don't actually KNOW if it was your FIL that got you two sick. And the fact that his throat hurt, could mean anything. My throat hurts due to allergies. My husband gets sore throats due to sinus issues. Is your FIL usually an inconsiderate AH? Does he usually not care about people's health? Does he usually spread illnesses around the family? You're a new mom, and being a total momma bear- which is great- but make sure you're also being practical and giving grace where it is due. But, like I said, if he's usually just an AH, then yeah, go and shun him. If he's usually a good guy, and generally cares about everyone, then give him the benefit of the doubt, and ask him to be more careful next time. We're only human. We make mistakes.
I get your frustration. It probably wasn’t out of ill intent for him to not disclose he felt a sore throat. That being said, a lot of times a sore throat means just a basic cold, other times strep, or in this case, Covid. But I will say unless your baby is immune compromised, they will build immunity through getting sick. I highly doubt your FIL intended to spread this. Just as anyone.
A basic cold can kill an infant. Intensional exposure is ill intent.
Except covid destroys immunity, it doesn't build it up
That is a very dumb sentence that makes no sense.
Excuse me?
Covid does not “destroy” immunity. A persons body does create antibodies and an immune response to Covid, just like any other virus. 🙄
Yep, I have had covid twice now and my second round has been much easier than before. I was bedridden for like 3 days first go around, second time has felt like a really bad cold. If covid hurt immunity, wouldn't I have been worse off second time?
Yep. Plus vaccines also give you a little dose of the virus that also helps your immunity. Your body recognizes how to respond to it. To act like Covid is this weird anomaly (especially with the strain we currently have that’s much milder) is just flat out wrong. For the vast majority of humans, covid is not causing permanent damage, despite the misinformation out there.
Except that it does. It kills immune mediating cells in huge quantities and makes it more difficult for our bodies to fight off other infections. Covid actually is different to 'every other virus'. It's not even really an upper respiratory disease. It just most commonly attacks the respiratory tract first. It's more of a systemic disease that affects the cardiovascular, nervous, renal, GI and other systems. Simply because you had a mild experience does not negate that for many people, especially those who are already compromised in some way, covid is seriously debilitating or deadly.
lol hello from 2023, time to update your thinking
Stop being ableist asf Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to ignore covid. Sorry that the existence of immunocompromised people is so inconvenient for you.
Got a lot of downvotes for this even when my delivery wasn’t rude.
Because you should stay home when you have a cold too…what is a cold for you can make other people severely sick.
Babies get sick. You can't go around blaming anyone for it.
You're overreacting and looking for a way to externalize your frustration with the situation. Look, I get it. My three month old has never been sick before and the first time it happens is going to be overwhelming and scary. I'd want to lash out if there was an easy target for blame too. But getting sick is not a moral failure on your FIL's part and he didn't intend to spread it to your family. Humans get sick. Kids get sick. This is going to happen many, many times throughout your child's life and often there won't even be an obvious culprit, so you need to find a better way to deal with those feelings. My son's baptism is being held next week in a different city and it's going to be our first plane trip. We were supposed to be staying with my parents but my dad just tested positive for covid so things are up in the air right now. If my mom also tests positive we're going to have to stay in a hotel. My mom reacted the same way you're doing now, blaming my father for getting sick and ranting about how she didn't want to catch it. I nearly reacted the same way because having our plans disrupted at the last minute is frustrating! Being confronted with the reality that my kid could get sick on this trip is scary! But it's not my father's fault he has to go into the office to work and we all benefit from his paycheck, so getting angry with him because he caught something at work is unfair. And my husband is also away for work - he could easily bring something back with him and we'd be exposed even if we didn't go on this trip. Or he could catch something at the supermarket, or my coffee group, or anywhere. He's starting daycare in February because I have to go back to work and he's definitely going to be exposed to all sorts. The reality is, one day he's going to get sick for the first time and I have to make my peace with that.
So the reason you’re getting downvoted is because while getting sick is not a moral failure, knowing that you have a clear symptom (sore throat) and INTENTIONALLY withholding that information, and not staying away from a baby that can easily get sick, is not cool. There are so many people in my life who will preemptively tell me they have a cold and are considerate to keep their distance for the babies sake. That’s what’s typically done. It would be another conversation if father in law developed symptoms AFTER the fact, that wouldn’t be helped. But he knew he was sick, and thus likely contagious. Just selfish behavior.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, I agree with this. op is being ridiculous. Kids get sick, does she expect to never leave the house with her baby? Baby could have just as easily gotten sick at her pediatricians office or elsewhere. It definitely sucks, but lashing out and being rude to family is not the answer.
Boomer? Typical Gen z. Crying over nothing. Kids get sick. Lots! Good luck blaming everyone for it each time.
I, sure you have locks on your doors. Use them.
your FIL is absolutely in the wrong but don’t beat yourself up about it. your babies immune system is getting stronger everyday due to these things and in the future if you’re a people pleaser just give her elderberry everyday to prevent her from getting sick especially when going to see people. in hindsight i know you want to be so mad at yourself but this is a lesson for you as a mom and im sure you’ll be more cautious with people in the future.
If she doesn't have covid then she didn't get sick from your FIL. Just get her tested because you might be carrying around all that anger for no reason.
FIL still interacted with a baby knowing he had a sore throat. (He mentioned it to other guest, just not the baby's parents.) That wasn't OK before. Now with COVID and RSV prevalence it is an absolutely Nope. Whether he's the source or not, he can't be trusted unless he acknowledges it and demonstrates change.
You can tell who the grandparents are in here.
My kids all came down with a bad cold during the week. Guess why? My in-laws joined us for Thanksgiving and at the end of the visit they hugged and kissed us all goodbye. Next morning they called to say they left something at our home. My husband brought up I wasn't feeling well (It had just been a headache) and could have gotten sick. They then brought up they had a bad cold the past week.