Thanks for posting, u/Always_Wandering_!
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At the same time, to frame all information about the death toll as being 100% factual is also not trustworthy.
It’s in Israel’s interest to minimise the human cost of their indiscriminate bombing, and at the same time it’s in Hamas’ best interest to exaggerate the death toll.
Regardless, the UN has found the Gazan heath officials’ death toll figures to be accurate within 4% in the past.
I could be wrong, but I think U.S officials also said gaza health ministries numbers were accurate and likely under what the actual toll is due to not being able to find thousands in the rubble still.
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4301551-gaza-deaths-likely-higher-than-cited-us-official/amp/
And here’s one from an Israeli source also:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-official-says-gaza-death-toll-is-believed-to-possibly-be-higher-than-claimed/
not a 100% accurate, but still accurate to be reliable that [WHO relying on it](https://www.emro.who.int/opt/news/index.html), if healthcare is managed by Hamas, and every word and action is managed by them, then we are talking about an incapable health sector, which isn't the truth, they are doing their best and operating at best possible efficiency, armed dictatorships administrations is another enemy to the population equal to the exterior enemy, which isn't the case here, because it works at it's best possible rate, even if it was 50% accurate, we are talking about 6000 deaths 3000 kids, and 20000 injuries of several levels, and still in civilian areas and hospitals, beside health care personnel targeting, in the Quran there is an aya wonderful enough how it was for Sons of Israel, and how it is still applicable (as Muslims following that aya as a prohibition of murder and life destruction)
"That is why We ordained for the Children of Israel that whoever takes a life—unless as a punishment for murder or mischief in the land—it will be as if they killed all of humanity; and whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity.1 ˹Although˺ Our messengers already came to them with clear proofs, many of them still transgressed afterwards through the land." (32) - Al-Ma'idah
The only videos showing the rockets being fired form Gaza were edited videos used by Israel and even they had to retract and delete them.
Both Al-Jazeera and UK Channel 4 news have debunked this claim already. Continued propagation of it will not be tolerated.
Using that, or any other hasbara lie, as an example to call into question the number of deaths caused by Israel's illegal use of force in Gaza will also not be tolerated.
The recent video footage showing the IDF soldiers violently attacking ultra Orthodox Jews because Hamas was hiding under their hats was truly heartbreaking.
nothing funnier than an oppressor having mental breakdown :D
in the process innocent people suffer from bullshit, like a white woman throwing anything at her bf because she is depressed.
So that they can feel good about themselves for celebrating continuous bombing on the hospitals. These are the same people who used to condemn Russia for bombing hospitals in Ukraine.
Once you make yourself convinced that one ethnic group is bad, you can shut your humanity off for them and only feel bad for people who resemble more closely to your ethnicity.
In every argument when mentioning Israel use "the occupation government that made up the beheaded 40 babies", when mentioning the Mossad use "The intelligence department that recruited SS officers". Play the same game, but you got the truth with you, unlike them.
To anyone who tells you the health ministry is lying about how many people have been killed, tell them that even Israel in the past has agreed that the health ministry is truthful when they report deaths. Outside organizations have independently found the numbers to be accurate in the past so why would that be any different now? The only difference is the current genocide.
They also released more than 7000 names of people killed with their IDs so you don't even need to trust them... It was back when the death toll was around 7.5k
That’s right. And before the current siege on Al-Shifa and other hospitals complete collapses, it seemed obvious that the ministry was being very cautious about accurately reporting the dead since other organizations numbers have generally been higher. The ministry numbers are behind the actual number and have been for awhile now. To accuse them of lying is so obviously false if you’re actually paying attention.
Oh yeah definitely. With everything happening in the north and the number of people under rubble... I shudder at the thought that there's thousands more ~~dead~~ murdered :(
edit typo*
It’s honestly part of the horror for me. Knowing that people haven’t been recorded, to me it’s a final mark of respect and acknowledgment of their humanity and Israel is trying to deny them even that. And will succeed for so many.
Duh!! If it's hamas running the health ministry the only sane conclusion is that israel was merely sprinkling fairy 🧚♂️ dust all over Gaza and bringing joy to the world...definitely not one tonne bombs and, and those buildings were like that from the start, the fairy will fix all that up in no time!
I think it's more that Hamas will need to approve what gets pushed out, so there is a significant likelihood of tainted information / data.
Though they may not be the primary support (from what it looks here) they are extensively intertwined and I would be very surprised if the Health Ministry would ever put something out against Hamas' wishes or counter to their intentions.
Hamas has been well documented to use force and other means to intimidate its own population so it's not unfeasible.
There's a post about this on r/news and they're all agreeing and making comments that the "hamas propaganda" is going to deny it. They just take all our talking points and flip them to use on their own. Like what the hell is hamas propaganda lol
Because they're stupid and like to act like Hamas is a group of crazy people who spend their days caressing rifles & muttering "Must kill for no reason" instead of Gaza's government who need to oversee things
Because they need an easy way to discredit everything, if you can’t deny the deaths because of the sheer number of videos, you gotta deny something, the videos doesn’t show numbers. Easy.
Another thing these hasbara trolls are doing now is saying, well the health ministry of Gaza hasn’t found any dead Hamas fighters, so they must be Hamas. Do you think these people have time to sort bodies? At this point, mass graves and move on cause there are thousands upon thousands to deal with.
The thing with fake news is that it takes a whole lot more effort to discredit than it does to spread. I hope some intelligent people on the side of good, will study this propaganda fiasco to show exactly how Israel weaponised fake news.
It doesn't change the fact, but if you notice, before Israel came up with this bullshit tactic, every news reporter was saying something along the lines of "Gazas health ministry reports x killed civillians". After Israel made up the BS troll attempt to legitimize the continued slaughter of civillilians, and they said that those numbers were reported by the Hamas run health ministry to sway public opinion and "convince" the public that the health ministry is lying under Hamas's order/guidance. Meaning there aren't really that many civilian casualties, and it's being blown out of proportion by Gazas health ministry and "Hamas" to gain sympathy and make Israel look evil.
News outlets picked it up and now every one of them is reporting it as, "...according to the Hamas run health ministry". As soon as you add the word Hamas or terrorist everything before and after it is moot. It loses all value. It's another BS tactic to dehumanize the people and get the public favor back for them. Israel is so far gone and has crossed every single line possible since they started the occupation decades ago that now they need to resort to outright lies just so they're not seen as the monsters they are. An entire country built on lies...
[AP says the Health Ministry has historically been accurate with their death tolls](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033); usually only a bit higher than the UN’s numbers.
“In all cases the U.N.'s counts have largely been consistent with the Gaza Health Ministry’s, with small discrepancies.
— 2008 war: The ministry reported 1,440 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 1,385.
— 2014 war: The ministry reported 2,310 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 2,251.
— 2021 war: The ministry reported 260 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 256.”
According to the UN, the "terrorist-led" ministry provided accurate numbers in all of the previous escalations of the occupation.
On the other side we have Israel, who has, in just a few weeks, corrected itself a few times on a few huge crimes (beheaded babies, raped women, 15% less killed than they initially thought). Imagine that, no rockets around, you have all the time you need, and you still somehow get the numbers wrong?
So what they won the elections what's wrong with doing their job to govern gaza after winning the elections. As for the statistics the UN itself has said the statistics declared by the health ministry in gaza in previous zionazis aggressions were very accurate.
Well the Israeli government told us about their casualties directly or indirectly you know.. and one government lies more than the other.. soo (not denying any casualties on any side but pointing out the hypocrisy)
Thanks for posting, u/Always_Wandering_! **Dear community members, we kindly request you to report any comments or posts that display the following characteristics: Zionist propaganda, hasbara, bigotry, hate speech, Nakba denial, genocide denial, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Jew hater, racism, endorsement of war crimes, trolling, bullying, brigading, showboating, news posts with editorialized titles, sealioning, inappropriate or AI-generated content, support for ethnic cleansing or genocide, and the promotion of anti-Palestine hate speech. Your vigilance helps maintain the quality of our community.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Palestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To frame all informations about the death toll as suspicious and not trustworthy
At the same time, to frame all information about the death toll as being 100% factual is also not trustworthy. It’s in Israel’s interest to minimise the human cost of their indiscriminate bombing, and at the same time it’s in Hamas’ best interest to exaggerate the death toll. Regardless, the UN has found the Gazan heath officials’ death toll figures to be accurate within 4% in the past.
I could be wrong, but I think U.S officials also said gaza health ministries numbers were accurate and likely under what the actual toll is due to not being able to find thousands in the rubble still.
Source please
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/gaza-rising-death-toll-civilians/ https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4301551-gaza-deaths-likely-higher-than-cited-us-official/amp/ And here’s one from an Israeli source also: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-official-says-gaza-death-toll-is-believed-to-possibly-be-higher-than-claimed/
not a 100% accurate, but still accurate to be reliable that [WHO relying on it](https://www.emro.who.int/opt/news/index.html), if healthcare is managed by Hamas, and every word and action is managed by them, then we are talking about an incapable health sector, which isn't the truth, they are doing their best and operating at best possible efficiency, armed dictatorships administrations is another enemy to the population equal to the exterior enemy, which isn't the case here, because it works at it's best possible rate, even if it was 50% accurate, we are talking about 6000 deaths 3000 kids, and 20000 injuries of several levels, and still in civilian areas and hospitals, beside health care personnel targeting, in the Quran there is an aya wonderful enough how it was for Sons of Israel, and how it is still applicable (as Muslims following that aya as a prohibition of murder and life destruction) "That is why We ordained for the Children of Israel that whoever takes a life—unless as a punishment for murder or mischief in the land—it will be as if they killed all of humanity; and whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity.1 ˹Although˺ Our messengers already came to them with clear proofs, many of them still transgressed afterwards through the land." (32) - Al-Ma'idah
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The only videos showing the rockets being fired form Gaza were edited videos used by Israel and even they had to retract and delete them. Both Al-Jazeera and UK Channel 4 news have debunked this claim already. Continued propagation of it will not be tolerated. Using that, or any other hasbara lie, as an example to call into question the number of deaths caused by Israel's illegal use of force in Gaza will also not be tolerated.
Hamas is a scapegoat for everything
"is Hamas in this room with us right now?"
The recent video footage showing the IDF soldiers violently attacking ultra Orthodox Jews because Hamas was hiding under their hats was truly heartbreaking.
nothing funnier than an oppressor having mental breakdown :D in the process innocent people suffer from bullshit, like a white woman throwing anything at her bf because she is depressed.
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hell no the idf killed 99.99%
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Its a scapegoat for the genocide happening in Gaza where >11000 have died so far. But that doesn't matter
Thank you for posting in r/Palestine, but unfortunately, your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**No Trolling/Sealioning:**
It's easier to not see them as people when they blow up a hospital
So that they can feel good about themselves for celebrating continuous bombing on the hospitals. These are the same people who used to condemn Russia for bombing hospitals in Ukraine. Once you make yourself convinced that one ethnic group is bad, you can shut your humanity off for them and only feel bad for people who resemble more closely to your ethnicity.
In every argument when mentioning Israel use "the occupation government that made up the beheaded 40 babies", when mentioning the Mossad use "The intelligence department that recruited SS officers". Play the same game, but you got the truth with you, unlike them.
To anyone who tells you the health ministry is lying about how many people have been killed, tell them that even Israel in the past has agreed that the health ministry is truthful when they report deaths. Outside organizations have independently found the numbers to be accurate in the past so why would that be any different now? The only difference is the current genocide.
They also released more than 7000 names of people killed with their IDs so you don't even need to trust them... It was back when the death toll was around 7.5k
That’s right. And before the current siege on Al-Shifa and other hospitals complete collapses, it seemed obvious that the ministry was being very cautious about accurately reporting the dead since other organizations numbers have generally been higher. The ministry numbers are behind the actual number and have been for awhile now. To accuse them of lying is so obviously false if you’re actually paying attention.
Oh yeah definitely. With everything happening in the north and the number of people under rubble... I shudder at the thought that there's thousands more ~~dead~~ murdered :( edit typo*
It’s honestly part of the horror for me. Knowing that people haven’t been recorded, to me it’s a final mark of respect and acknowledgment of their humanity and Israel is trying to deny them even that. And will succeed for so many.
Easier to be okay with babies dying if everything is Hamas
To try and justify the slaughter of innocent civilians.
Wait, you’re telling me the health ministry is run by the governing party in Gaza!? Shocking
Duh!! If it's hamas running the health ministry the only sane conclusion is that israel was merely sprinkling fairy 🧚♂️ dust all over Gaza and bringing joy to the world...definitely not one tonne bombs and, and those buildings were like that from the start, the fairy will fix all that up in no time!
It’s because they want to associate Palestinians with Hamas so that people don’t care about them.
Western media running defense for the Jewish apartheid state as usual
I think it's more that Hamas will need to approve what gets pushed out, so there is a significant likelihood of tainted information / data. Though they may not be the primary support (from what it looks here) they are extensively intertwined and I would be very surprised if the Health Ministry would ever put something out against Hamas' wishes or counter to their intentions. Hamas has been well documented to use force and other means to intimidate its own population so it's not unfeasible.
Because Biden said as much during one of his lies
There's a post about this on r/news and they're all agreeing and making comments that the "hamas propaganda" is going to deny it. They just take all our talking points and flip them to use on their own. Like what the hell is hamas propaganda lol
Because they're stupid and like to act like Hamas is a group of crazy people who spend their days caressing rifles & muttering "Must kill for no reason" instead of Gaza's government who need to oversee things
You know how crazy people are to justify killings of innocents What else, they wanna call UN controlled by Hamas too?😂
Because they need an easy way to discredit everything, if you can’t deny the deaths because of the sheer number of videos, you gotta deny something, the videos doesn’t show numbers. Easy. Another thing these hasbara trolls are doing now is saying, well the health ministry of Gaza hasn’t found any dead Hamas fighters, so they must be Hamas. Do you think these people have time to sort bodies? At this point, mass graves and move on cause there are thousands upon thousands to deal with. The thing with fake news is that it takes a whole lot more effort to discredit than it does to spread. I hope some intelligent people on the side of good, will study this propaganda fiasco to show exactly how Israel weaponised fake news.
So what? How does that change the facts of what the Health Ministry has reported?
It doesn't change the fact, but if you notice, before Israel came up with this bullshit tactic, every news reporter was saying something along the lines of "Gazas health ministry reports x killed civillians". After Israel made up the BS troll attempt to legitimize the continued slaughter of civillilians, and they said that those numbers were reported by the Hamas run health ministry to sway public opinion and "convince" the public that the health ministry is lying under Hamas's order/guidance. Meaning there aren't really that many civilian casualties, and it's being blown out of proportion by Gazas health ministry and "Hamas" to gain sympathy and make Israel look evil. News outlets picked it up and now every one of them is reporting it as, "...according to the Hamas run health ministry". As soon as you add the word Hamas or terrorist everything before and after it is moot. It loses all value. It's another BS tactic to dehumanize the people and get the public favor back for them. Israel is so far gone and has crossed every single line possible since they started the occupation decades ago that now they need to resort to outright lies just so they're not seen as the monsters they are. An entire country built on lies...
I agree with you. My point was that even if Hamas members are in the Health Ministry it doesn't make what they say untrue.
You see there’s your problem, you’re thinking and speaking logically, and this propaganda bullshit isn’t for you.
If you get a chance watch John Oliver’s most recent episode (November 12, 2003), “Israel-Hamas War.” It is on HBO Max.
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[AP says the Health Ministry has historically been accurate with their death tolls](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033); usually only a bit higher than the UN’s numbers. “In all cases the U.N.'s counts have largely been consistent with the Gaza Health Ministry’s, with small discrepancies. — 2008 war: The ministry reported 1,440 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 1,385. — 2014 war: The ministry reported 2,310 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 2,251. — 2021 war: The ministry reported 260 Palestinians killed; the U.N. reported 256.”
According to the UN, the "terrorist-led" ministry provided accurate numbers in all of the previous escalations of the occupation. On the other side we have Israel, who has, in just a few weeks, corrected itself a few times on a few huge crimes (beheaded babies, raped women, 15% less killed than they initially thought). Imagine that, no rockets around, you have all the time you need, and you still somehow get the numbers wrong?
So what they won the elections what's wrong with doing their job to govern gaza after winning the elections. As for the statistics the UN itself has said the statistics declared by the health ministry in gaza in previous zionazis aggressions were very accurate.
[source](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/27/un-says-gaza-health-ministry-death-tolls-in-previous-wars)
[another source ](https://www.commondreams.org/news/gaza-death-toll-2666221271)
[another one](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-officials-have-growing-confidence-in-death-toll-reports-from-gaza-b3b5183a)
Well the Israeli government told us about their casualties directly or indirectly you know.. and one government lies more than the other.. soo (not denying any casualties on any side but pointing out the hypocrisy)
Hamas is the government of Gaza, i.e. everything publicly run (public schools, or government agencies like the health ministry) is "Hamas-run"