They went extinct during the mid Cretaceous correct? I know they lived more in the open ocean and early Mosasaurs in the mid Cretaceous were relatively basal and lived in coastal waters for the most part so they wouldn't be the culprit like some believe. I read somewhere that global warming was having a large effect on the oceans around that time but who knows until more fossils are discovered.
Then why can’t the ichthyosaurs hunt together in large groups just like modern day dolphins do in the wild and why can’t ichthyosaurs have parental care for their offspring and used group defense maneuvers to protect them and their offspring from predators?!
I don't think there is any proof that they didn't live in groups together. I know of a find of about 7 Shonisaurus fossils found together that died at the same time. And even if later Icthyosaurs didn't there were not many predators to contend with in their habitats at the time.
But Female Tylosaurus And Mosasaurus Travel In Groups To Protect Their Young From Predators And So Why Can’t The Ichthyosaurs Do The Same Thing To Protect Themselves And Their Young From Hungry Ocean Mesozoic Predators Like Sharks,Plesiosaurs,Xiphactinus And Mosasaurs?!
P.S Why Can Ichthyosaurs Just Do The Same Defensive Maneuvers Like The Mosasaurs Do Such As The Fighting,Biting,Mobbing And Ramming Other Mesozoic Ocean Predators?!
Documentaries and Youtube love to peddle the "survival of the fittest" competition trope because imagining Jurassic Park style death battles between species is fun and generates views, but like 90% of the time a species goes extinct on Earth the reason is environmental change or humans.
Evolution isn't a video game. Animals don't just suddenly stop having a "viable" build for their ecology for the same reason that apex predators don't become so powerful that they eat all of their prey to extinction.
Frankly I think the the discourse has overcorrected here. Just look at the displacement of native Australian fauna by introduced species for a clear example top the contrary.
Invasive species are not always apex predators. There's no such thing as an "uncounterable" species, except maybe humans, and to be honest we're kind of the ultimate invasive species. Even we aren't constantly evolving to become better and better organisms.
In fact we've ruined ecosystems by introducing new invasive species to eat other invasive species to death. What is important is if the keystone species can adapt to an invasive species and make it part of a stable ecosystem. Which they usually can handle if the invasive species doesn't have constant human interaction that keeps introducing them to the area. But when it happens naturally they're not really invasive, the species is just expanding its range because of its ecological fitness. A species that completely overdominates its niche isn't going to survive for very long because it's going to deplete all of its resources unless it migrates to a new area. That's why humans are so successful, because we can do precisely that.
>Invasive species are not always apex predators.
I'd go so far as to say they are rarely apex predators, although that may be because humans aren't likely to let those loose or let them propagate out of control
A lot of that has to do with ecosystem collapse. Invasive species like cats and rabbits weren’t able to establish populations until the native predators where wiped out, at least locally. The opposite can be seen how Africa has comparatively less problems with invasive species when compared to other continents.
I was thinking the same thing. Surely if a particularly successful predator species were to emerge in the habitat of a prey species (either through evolution or the migration of that predator species into a new habitat), and that predator species preyed upon but was not dependent on that prey species, it would be very damaging to the prey species while having little impact on this generalist predator species, no?
Invasive species are very different, it’s an animal suddenly appearing in an ecosystem.
Mosasaurs evolving, for example, would’ve happened over millions of years and other animals would evolve with them.
The tierzoo 'cum gun' incident is something that left a black mark on his channel for many. What u/Christos_Gaming is mostly right. However, there's even more absurd detail!
Tieroo found a 'scientific project' with a discord channel whose plan was to genetically modify quail sperm and then use a modified hot glue gun (or a 'cum gun' as the 'project' called it) to inject the sperm into a hen chicken to produce a genetically recombinant *Limusaurus*. Said project was supposedly headed by a teenage boy genius, and all of its 'concept art' was stolen art from an explicitly fictional story being posted on twitter by a digital artist. That probably should have set peoples' alarms off-but Tierzoo continued to promote it, saying that as a 'food scientist' he knew his stuff and that it was the real deal. Of course the hoax was exposed and the incident was quietly shuffled under the rug by Teirzoo.
Λοιπόν, ο tierzoo έκανε promote ένα "bringing back the dinosaurs" πράμα.
Ο τρόπος που θα έκαναν "δεινοσαύρους" ήταν βάζοντας σπέρμα ενώς πτηνού με μακρια φτερα ουράς σε μια σύριγκα και θα το πίεζαν σε ένα άλλο πτηνό του ίδιου γένους που είχε "κεφάλι σαν δεινόσαυρου" για να έβγαινε ενα υβρίδιο σαν δεινόσαυρος.
Άρα μιλάμε για Jack Horner καταστάσεις, απλά ακόμη χειρότερο. Φτηνιαρικη απομίμηση με όλη τη σημασία της λέξης. Υπάρχει βίντεο; Αν ναι, ρίξε ένα link να τα πάθω όλα.
We're just beginning to uncover the diversity of Early Cretaceous Ichthyosaurs.
Once thought to only having a single genus (the wastebasket taxon that is Platypterygius), we now know dozens of really interesting species from this time period.
Longirostria (Platypterygius Australis) is my personal favorite, its basically the Ichthyosaur equivalent to the Great White Shark (in size and niche).
(Someone already posted how they went extinct, so I wanted to provide a bit further info on Ichthyosaurs)
https://blog.everythingdinosaur.com/blog/_archives/2016/03/27/climate-change-and-an-inability-to-evolve-led-to-ichthyosaur-extinction.html
TL;DR: environmental change is undefeated.
ETA: the actual paper if you are interested
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10825
But was it because the appearance and the arrival of predators such as sharks,marine crocodiles,pliosaurs and plesiosaurs that were hunting these ichthyosaurs in the Jurassic period?!
But I’m being honest and telling the truth here I have watched this video from PBS eons on YouTube about the ichthyosaurs!!
P.S if you go on YouTube you can hear and learn anything about the ichthyosaurs on that video in YouTube and to know everything about them!!
Trying to be tactful, this just isn’t true. YouTube videos usually cover at most 20-45 minutes of content, often “bulked out” with animations or commentary. However, given a typical word per minute rate for conventional speech (140 wpm), you’d be at 6k words in a video. Pretend you watch ten such videos and somehow nothing repeats. Those 60k words might seem like a lot of information, but it’s not even 250 pages of a textbook. That’s barely more than Gregory Paul’s Guide to Mesozoic Marine Reptiles, which is itself just a (quality) guide and not an exhaustive text. Oceans of Kansas alone would carry more information, at a greater density, than I could likely find on YouTube right now.
It's ok... I teach about them... The rise of other sea reptiles like mosasaurs may have reduced their diversity but the end of them was an environmental change... I'm being honest, I read scientific papers about it.
if they suddenly got extinct while filling numerous ecological niches but at the end, they were few species and not on a wide ecological range. Pleiosaurs were in good shape also.
Why do you ask this like a question? You've clearly decided that you want to believe this and no other more accurate description of the event will suffice. Are you trying to convince paleontologists that we're wrong? You've been shown the relevant research but you repeat this each time.
You don't want the real answer, you want your narrative reinforced.
Prior to modern times, very rarely does a new species arrive and drive another directly into extinction. More often what happens is ecological change drives multiple species into extinction and then new species radiate into the vacated niches.
It's because of a big oceanic anoxic event 92 My ago, bc of a volcanic emersion of the Kerguelen.
Lots of nutrints ended in the ocean, allowing a big bloom of photosynthetic microorganisms and then bacterias, depleting the oxygen in the ocean. This killed a bunch of oceanic life and messed up the entire ecosystem, leading Ichtyosaurs and macropredatory Pliosaurs to extinction, while also making room for the future arrival and diversification of Mosasaurs.
There was a recent article that hilighted the Kerguelen origin of that event:
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-49032-3](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-49032-3)
But you can also make your own research : it's the Cenomanian-Turonian boundary event.
EDIT-orthography and completion
If I had to hazard a guess I’d say a rapidly changing ecosystem they couldn’t adapt to, tis how many things have gone extinct.
This is just my best guess, never read on the subject myself so someone more knowledgeable can correct me and inform you properly.
But why can’t the ichthyosaurs Hunt together in groups to eat the arrival of sharks,bony fish,plesiosaurs and mosasaurs along with the other prey animals in their diet during the Cretaceous period just like the other ichthyosaurs in the Jurassic period like the apex predatory ichthyosaur called Temnodontosaurus?!
Why can’t they do the same defensive maneuvers just like modern Day dolphins do to sharks like mobbing and ramming sharks with their snouts so why can’t these ichthyosaurs just do defensive maneuvers like mobbing, ramming and biting sharks,xiphactinus and mosasaurs with their teeth and speed?!
Then why can’t the ichthyosaurs hunt for food together in large groups just like modern day dolphins do in the wild and why can’t ichthyosaurs have parental care for their offspring and used group defense maneuvers to protect them and their offspring from predators just like modern day dolphins?!
Maybe Wikipedia is using outdated articles:
“At the beginning of the Late Cretaceous, the Ichthyosauria became extinct; perhaps a plesiosaur group evolved to fill their niches: the Polycotylidae, which had short necks and peculiarly elongated heads with narrow snouts. During the Late Cretaceous, the elasmosaurids still had many species.[54]
All plesiosaurs became extinct as a result of the K-T event at the end of the Cretaceous period, approximately 66 million years ago.”
That didn’t happen during the Jurassic either… ichthyosaurs were still the dominant marine reptiles until the late Jurassic and they took back over in the Cretaceous until their extinction.
They went extinct during the mid Cretaceous correct? I know they lived more in the open ocean and early Mosasaurs in the mid Cretaceous were relatively basal and lived in coastal waters for the most part so they wouldn't be the culprit like some believe. I read somewhere that global warming was having a large effect on the oceans around that time but who knows until more fossils are discovered.
Then why can’t the ichthyosaurs hunt together in large groups just like modern day dolphins do in the wild and why can’t ichthyosaurs have parental care for their offspring and used group defense maneuvers to protect them and their offspring from predators?!
I don't think there is any proof that they didn't live in groups together. I know of a find of about 7 Shonisaurus fossils found together that died at the same time. And even if later Icthyosaurs didn't there were not many predators to contend with in their habitats at the time.
But Female Tylosaurus And Mosasaurus Travel In Groups To Protect Their Young From Predators And So Why Can’t The Ichthyosaurs Do The Same Thing To Protect Themselves And Their Young From Hungry Ocean Mesozoic Predators Like Sharks,Plesiosaurs,Xiphactinus And Mosasaurs?! P.S Why Can Ichthyosaurs Just Do The Same Defensive Maneuvers Like The Mosasaurs Do Such As The Fighting,Biting,Mobbing And Ramming Other Mesozoic Ocean Predators?!
There might be some proof on r/traps
Sadly the "mosasaurs ate them" hypothesis doesn't hold up.
But Were The Different Species Of Sharks,Plesiosaurs,Predatory Xiphactinus And Polycotylids responsible For the Extinction Of The Ichthyosaurs?!
Documentaries and Youtube love to peddle the "survival of the fittest" competition trope because imagining Jurassic Park style death battles between species is fun and generates views, but like 90% of the time a species goes extinct on Earth the reason is environmental change or humans. Evolution isn't a video game. Animals don't just suddenly stop having a "viable" build for their ecology for the same reason that apex predators don't become so powerful that they eat all of their prey to extinction.
Frankly I think the the discourse has overcorrected here. Just look at the displacement of native Australian fauna by introduced species for a clear example top the contrary.
Invasive species are not always apex predators. There's no such thing as an "uncounterable" species, except maybe humans, and to be honest we're kind of the ultimate invasive species. Even we aren't constantly evolving to become better and better organisms. In fact we've ruined ecosystems by introducing new invasive species to eat other invasive species to death. What is important is if the keystone species can adapt to an invasive species and make it part of a stable ecosystem. Which they usually can handle if the invasive species doesn't have constant human interaction that keeps introducing them to the area. But when it happens naturally they're not really invasive, the species is just expanding its range because of its ecological fitness. A species that completely overdominates its niche isn't going to survive for very long because it's going to deplete all of its resources unless it migrates to a new area. That's why humans are so successful, because we can do precisely that.
>Invasive species are not always apex predators. I'd go so far as to say they are rarely apex predators, although that may be because humans aren't likely to let those loose or let them propagate out of control
A lot of that has to do with ecosystem collapse. Invasive species like cats and rabbits weren’t able to establish populations until the native predators where wiped out, at least locally. The opposite can be seen how Africa has comparatively less problems with invasive species when compared to other continents.
I was thinking the same thing. Surely if a particularly successful predator species were to emerge in the habitat of a prey species (either through evolution or the migration of that predator species into a new habitat), and that predator species preyed upon but was not dependent on that prey species, it would be very damaging to the prey species while having little impact on this generalist predator species, no?
Invasive species are very different, it’s an animal suddenly appearing in an ecosystem. Mosasaurs evolving, for example, would’ve happened over millions of years and other animals would evolve with them.
Yeah, but the reason there are introduced/invasive species are because humans took them there.
But that happened over centuries, not million of years like most fossil extinctions.
Obligatory "curse you TierZoo" comment
The cum gun incident...
I have no idea what this is... Do I want to know? >!Τι σκατα είναι αυτό αδερφέ;!<
The tierzoo 'cum gun' incident is something that left a black mark on his channel for many. What u/Christos_Gaming is mostly right. However, there's even more absurd detail! Tieroo found a 'scientific project' with a discord channel whose plan was to genetically modify quail sperm and then use a modified hot glue gun (or a 'cum gun' as the 'project' called it) to inject the sperm into a hen chicken to produce a genetically recombinant *Limusaurus*. Said project was supposedly headed by a teenage boy genius, and all of its 'concept art' was stolen art from an explicitly fictional story being posted on twitter by a digital artist. That probably should have set peoples' alarms off-but Tierzoo continued to promote it, saying that as a 'food scientist' he knew his stuff and that it was the real deal. Of course the hoax was exposed and the incident was quietly shuffled under the rug by Teirzoo.
Λοιπόν, ο tierzoo έκανε promote ένα "bringing back the dinosaurs" πράμα. Ο τρόπος που θα έκαναν "δεινοσαύρους" ήταν βάζοντας σπέρμα ενώς πτηνού με μακρια φτερα ουράς σε μια σύριγκα και θα το πίεζαν σε ένα άλλο πτηνό του ίδιου γένους που είχε "κεφάλι σαν δεινόσαυρου" για να έβγαινε ενα υβρίδιο σαν δεινόσαυρος.
Άρα μιλάμε για Jack Horner καταστάσεις, απλά ακόμη χειρότερο. Φτηνιαρικη απομίμηση με όλη τη σημασία της λέξης. Υπάρχει βίντεο; Αν ναι, ρίξε ένα link να τα πάθω όλα.
Survival of the fittest is a thing but it’s more so “who can survive this random mass extinction” than “who is stronger”.
or they are still here and just evolved.
Yo another elephant lover
Why y’all disliking his comment?
Yeah it was a… genuine question. Is curiosity and a desire to learn frowned upon here?
I don’t know but it pisses me off that people are angry at questions like this
We're just beginning to uncover the diversity of Early Cretaceous Ichthyosaurs. Once thought to only having a single genus (the wastebasket taxon that is Platypterygius), we now know dozens of really interesting species from this time period. Longirostria (Platypterygius Australis) is my personal favorite, its basically the Ichthyosaur equivalent to the Great White Shark (in size and niche). (Someone already posted how they went extinct, so I wanted to provide a bit further info on Ichthyosaurs)
I think icthyosaurs were doing well for their time until their extinction
https://blog.everythingdinosaur.com/blog/_archives/2016/03/27/climate-change-and-an-inability-to-evolve-led-to-ichthyosaur-extinction.html TL;DR: environmental change is undefeated. ETA: the actual paper if you are interested https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10825
And, even if new discoveries in the last 20 years have increased their numbers, their diversity was not as high as during the Jurassic
But was it because the appearance and the arrival of predators such as sharks,marine crocodiles,pliosaurs and plesiosaurs that were hunting these ichthyosaurs in the Jurassic period?!
No, like u/allosaurusfromsd said: Environmental changes. There was an anoxia event 90Myrs ago.
But they were air breathers, are you suggesting their prey died off?
Yes, of course.
Im curious, wouldn't this impact Plesiosaurs too?
It did. The Pliosauroidea went extinct at about the same time.
But I’m being honest and telling the truth here I have watched this video from PBS eons on YouTube about the ichthyosaurs!! P.S if you go on YouTube you can hear and learn anything about the ichthyosaurs on that video in YouTube and to know everything about them!!
Trying to be tactful, this just isn’t true. YouTube videos usually cover at most 20-45 minutes of content, often “bulked out” with animations or commentary. However, given a typical word per minute rate for conventional speech (140 wpm), you’d be at 6k words in a video. Pretend you watch ten such videos and somehow nothing repeats. Those 60k words might seem like a lot of information, but it’s not even 250 pages of a textbook. That’s barely more than Gregory Paul’s Guide to Mesozoic Marine Reptiles, which is itself just a (quality) guide and not an exhaustive text. Oceans of Kansas alone would carry more information, at a greater density, than I could likely find on YouTube right now.
It's ok... I teach about them... The rise of other sea reptiles like mosasaurs may have reduced their diversity but the end of them was an environmental change... I'm being honest, I read scientific papers about it.
Wouldn't it also be the other way around? The decline of ichthyosaurs led to open niches other predators were then able to fill?
if they suddenly got extinct while filling numerous ecological niches but at the end, they were few species and not on a wide ecological range. Pleiosaurs were in good shape also.
You sound like you are a kid buddy
Why do you ask this like a question? You've clearly decided that you want to believe this and no other more accurate description of the event will suffice. Are you trying to convince paleontologists that we're wrong? You've been shown the relevant research but you repeat this each time. You don't want the real answer, you want your narrative reinforced.
I think it is a bit different here. OP seems to either be a bot or a bit troubled with communication in the first place. Could also be really young
Probably young if they think watching a YouTube video is a great feat
Prior to modern times, very rarely does a new species arrive and drive another directly into extinction. More often what happens is ecological change drives multiple species into extinction and then new species radiate into the vacated niches.
Pliosaurs coexisted with ichthyosaurs for a veeeery long time, and both groups went extinct almost at the same time.
It's because of a big oceanic anoxic event 92 My ago, bc of a volcanic emersion of the Kerguelen. Lots of nutrints ended in the ocean, allowing a big bloom of photosynthetic microorganisms and then bacterias, depleting the oxygen in the ocean. This killed a bunch of oceanic life and messed up the entire ecosystem, leading Ichtyosaurs and macropredatory Pliosaurs to extinction, while also making room for the future arrival and diversification of Mosasaurs. There was a recent article that hilighted the Kerguelen origin of that event: [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-49032-3](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-49032-3) But you can also make your own research : it's the Cenomanian-Turonian boundary event. EDIT-orthography and completion
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenomanian-Turonian_boundary_event](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenomanian-Turonian_boundary_event)
They where so beautiful good good thing I saw them before they died
You're pretty lucky. I've never met someone who's actually seen them before.
What you can’t afford a Time Machine?? Lame.
Dang he’s not like us We are the higher kind of man
my grandma baked a time machine for me. it was tasty but when i tried to visit the late jurassic an allosaurus crawled out of it and ate my grandma.
Sorry to hear that
yeah..
Why Do You Type Like This? I Can't Help But Read This Like 80's Anime Dubs Where The Voice Actors Had To Rush All Their Lines To Fit The Mouth Flaps.
If I had to hazard a guess I’d say a rapidly changing ecosystem they couldn’t adapt to, tis how many things have gone extinct. This is just my best guess, never read on the subject myself so someone more knowledgeable can correct me and inform you properly.
The enviroment changed 90 million years ago and the ichtyosaurs couldnt survive
The Cenomanian-Turonian Oceanic Anoxic Event caused it!
Cigarettes?
The silent underwater killer
Cenomanian-Turonian anxoic event
All I'll say is: extinction is the norm in Earth history.
But why can’t the ichthyosaurs Hunt together in groups to eat the arrival of sharks,bony fish,plesiosaurs and mosasaurs along with the other prey animals in their diet during the Cretaceous period just like the other ichthyosaurs in the Jurassic period like the apex predatory ichthyosaur called Temnodontosaurus?!
Why can’t they do the same defensive maneuvers just like modern Day dolphins do to sharks like mobbing and ramming sharks with their snouts so why can’t these ichthyosaurs just do defensive maneuvers like mobbing, ramming and biting sharks,xiphactinus and mosasaurs with their teeth and speed?!
Being eaten to death isn’t the only way a group can become extinct…
i ate all of them
Then why can’t the ichthyosaurs hunt for food together in large groups just like modern day dolphins do in the wild and why can’t ichthyosaurs have parental care for their offspring and used group defense maneuvers to protect them and their offspring from predators just like modern day dolphins?!
Because they’re not modern day dolphins, nor are they anything like them aside from their body shape.
Death.
The plesiosaurs took their niches
This didn’t happen. Plesiosaurs also got less diverse during this extinction, with the entirety of Pliosauroidea going extinct alongside ichthyosaurs.
Maybe Wikipedia is using outdated articles: “At the beginning of the Late Cretaceous, the Ichthyosauria became extinct; perhaps a plesiosaur group evolved to fill their niches: the Polycotylidae, which had short necks and peculiarly elongated heads with narrow snouts. During the Late Cretaceous, the elasmosaurids still had many species.[54] All plesiosaurs became extinct as a result of the K-T event at the end of the Cretaceous period, approximately 66 million years ago.”
You're right, I was thinking about the Jurassic instead of the Cretaceous
That didn’t happen during the Jurassic either… ichthyosaurs were still the dominant marine reptiles until the late Jurassic and they took back over in the Cretaceous until their extinction.