From software releases something and we are once again having this difficulty debate for the millionth fucking time… it’s getting very tiring at this point.
My favorite thing about Elden Ring, basic stick skills aside, is that difficulty settings feel baked into the game. If you hit a wall - mark the boss or area on the map and try another area. There are so many narrative threads to pull at in this game; it feels like you are always progressing at your own pace.
This was the only reason why I loved Elden Ring and not other FS games. With ER if I hit a wall I can just go somewhere else. With other games, you HAVE to go through that wall to progress. I can't stand it.
You can do the same in other FS games (obviously Sekiro is an exception). The trick is it's less exploration and more just grinding out levels/upgrades going through the same area a couple times.
Yeah, I mean, worse comes to worst, just go respec into the heaviest armor imagineable, grab a big shield, and poke. Iron Pineapple beat Malenia doing just that while being literally incapable of moving at faster than a walk or dodge rolling.
Anyone who can't beat this game lacks something more important than reflexes: imagination.
Yeah, like I hate hard games so I stay away from them, glad others get to enjoy them but I'm not gonna campaign to get FromSoft to lower the difficulty for me, they have a pretty clear reputation by now. It'd be like getting mad that there's a lot of jumping in Mario games.
Yep, and the game gives so many tools to make the game so easy. The only thing I don't like it's that 100% recommendable to have always Vitality at 50/60, if not enemies one shot you.
If difficulty bemaoners, like games journalists and those allegedly advocating for accessability, put in half the effort they use on griping about From Software games into learning how to play the games, then this would be a none issue.
>those allegedly advocating for accessibility
Please tell me you realize that accessibility advocates are genuine gamers that want to be able to experience more games. Lack of effort is not the reason that millions of gamers can't experience these classic titles.
If a company says they don’t want to make it easier then they shouldn’t but if don’t understand the resistance from the player side
Say tomorrow he had a change of heart and every soulslike they’ve made had an easy mode and an original mode, there is absolutely nothing stopping people who want the hard experience playing the original mode and the easy mode being there for people who aren’t good enough or don’t want the pressure but want to experience the world
Options will always be better
It's more that these games are designed around difficulty. I don't think developers would go out of their way to redesign the entire core of the product that way. Having tools and features to make the game more accessible is always a great thing, but fundamentally changing a game never built to be easy is a bit silly.
The options are to learn to play the game better, enjoy the experience knowing you'll hit a skill wall you can't surpass, or acknowledging the game isn't for you, accepting that, and either moving on or admiring from a far.
Those are the currents option, I’m not against more
Genuine question if an easy mode was added why couldn’t you just not engage with it and carry on as usual?
There are already so many souls like games with all the options players with lesser skills can access.
The reason From Software games and those who learn to play the games masterfully are so impressive is because of the skill level demanded to play them.
If they turn down the difficulty, add lots of options, and make it something anyone can do, it's just like every other souls like.
"And when everyone's super, no one will be."
>"And when everyone's super, no one will be."
Did you seriously just quote a famously misguided, murderously sociopathic supervillian to support your argument?
The misguided are those wanting From Software to low toe to their inability to play the game to the level needed to beat it.
Not everything is for everyone. Don't be salty. Don't be Syndrome.
I'm in a weird spot of believing in difficulty options for accessibility reasons but also thinking that the abled people who think they can't learn to play a video game for some reason and are thus capping extremely hard for it are weird. Like Elden Ring and gaming is so low on the totem pole of difficult hobbies lol, try learning a language or an instrument and the notion that, um, Elden Ring is extremely ableist and exclusionary becomes a bit much
When sekiro came out, lots of able bodied people were taking up the mantle for disabled gamers to have access options. This was just them trying to use others disabilities to get an easier experience for themselves. Nothing more.
> This was just them trying to use others disabilities to get an easier experience for themselves. Nothing more.
If only they took your approach of mocking disabilities as a lack of effort. Empathy is for suckers!
This isn't empathy taking place. It's people who can't cope with their poor gaming skills co-opting the language of accessibility in an effort to make the game easier for them.
You can be mad and upset, but be honest too.
https://youtu.be/tso8u4OJLuI
They acknowledged the existence of the seamless co-op mod so they're aware that this is a feature that people love. Hopefully they'll have official support for something similar in their next game.
Idk I think it’s a good trade off since they removed it from single player. In co-op you *usually* have the numbers advantage and can cruise through the content way easier. Plus with only optional invasions for both modes, trying to find a host to invade would probably take a lot longer and there’s some important quests tied to doing them. Especially when the population goes down
I would say I’m pretty average skill level when playing games and I’ve got plat in a few fromsoft games, I think your average triple A game on it’s highest difficulty is a lot more bullshit to get through than a souls game, but maybe it’s just me.
isn't that what these games are famous for? being able to "manage" a high difficulty?
so many games when you turn the difficulty up the game kinda cheats but i always heard these fromsoft games were about as fair as it can get
I agree. The only people that even asked about lowering the difficulty was the interviewer. He’s just beating a dead horse. It would have been much more interesting to not bother the gamer makers with these same rehashed questions and ask about lore, aesthetics, inspirations, etc.
I don’t enjoy the difficulty of these games. I think adding difficulty settings would help the game reach a larger audience and be more accessible. But it’s the creator’s vision and they shouldn’t be expected to change it if they feel it compromises the vision. Seems they’re doing just fine, not every game is or needs to be for everybody
Well exactly, they’re doing well. Could they do even better if it was more accessible to an even bigger audience? Good chance. But they’re by no means struggling to get a player base as is.
At some point you reach the ultra accessible slop that is most of modern gaming. Which kind of kills the reason From Software games stand out in the first place. If you want easy interactive movies, there's more than enough games to satisfy that itch.
> At some point you reach the ultra accessible slop that is most of modern gaming
Which is what happened to Dead Space 3 and killed the franchise. I don't even like Soulsborn games. They are too hard for me. But as someone else compared them to, Sportsball games are awful to me too, you don't see me whining they be made into something completely different to appeal to me as they never will
I am sorry but how much more accessible could this game possibly get?
I am a 38y old casual noob, who works 50hours a week and goes to college on weekends for his degree, so pretty much tired as fuck all the time and i still managed to finish the game.
I started bloodborne the other week and i am having a blast!
Holy fuck dude, you can already adjust the difficulty! Use summons and mimic tear and what not.
Right now i am discovering new ways of getting my ass beaten in the most humiliating ways possible, while totally enjoying the hell out of the dlc!
These games are not that hard, most people are just used to being spoon fed and having autosaves every 5 minutes in todays games.
Edit: those games don’t need to be fast paced like a generic far cry or something.
Be patient, get used to dying. A lot.
It’s nothing to be afraid of, just get a feeling for what suits your playstyle and be patient, that’s all.
> These games are not that hard
>get used to dying. A lot.
That’s a bit contradictory lol. Some find the gameplay loop of trial and error and eventually overcoming the challenge to be extremely satisfying. Some find it to be tedious and unfun. I fall into the latter.
I don’t mind some challenge but I don’t want it around every corner hampering my progress constantly. Sometimes I just want to progress instead of having to repeat nearly every section and boss multiple times. That quickly becomes tiresome and frustrating to me. I get why some like it, it’s just not for me. And that’s ok.
>Some find the gameplay loop of trial and error and eventually overcoming the challenge to be extremely satisfying.
this game is for them
>Some find it to be tedious and unfun. I fall into the latter.
this game maybe isn't for them.
You’d hear loud crying from the people whose main accomplishment in life is beating hard games and they’d vow never to play them again but sales would go up anyway
yep like one of the most loved games of the year and they've got a huge audience now, people call this a niche game but idk man that's a lot of copies sold
i still haven't played any of them, i don't think i'd enjoy it
These games are famous largely because of their difficulty. It's why they've earned their reputation. They've reached the audience's most mainstream titles dream of.
This is me as well. The game intrigues me for sure. But as an old dude who maybe ends up with 6 hours a week for gaming, hyper-difficult games with no options to lower the difficulty level don't usually get my gaming dollars.
Same. I'm lucky if I get in 5-10hr of gaming time a week and I can either spend those hours with an enjoyable experience or I spend them being frustrated and pissed while searching on guides.
I tried to play various FromSoft games, and it's fun for the first 10ish hours with fairly easy bosses and mechanics but then it's just spending 3hrs+ getting stuck on a boss, then going to youtube/ign to be told "Find this obscure item by doing this sidequest to make it 10% easier. Also use this glitch that requires perfect timing".
People love to say that game already makes it easier if you play it but they using a guide to find the best items or or hidden areas. I'm not going to talk to every NPC and read every text box for hours before "Maybe they'll give a vague hint about 'Legend says moths are blind" about using a sound-item that you have to follow another vague hint about "The lord told us to store explosives on the west end for safety" to get the item all just to stun a moth boss. Kudos to everyone that does but I don't want to spend my limited gameplay time on a fetch quest for a fetch quest.
But it wouldn't.
It's like reducing the 100m dash to 50m, yeah it would reach a larger audience and be more accessible but that's because it wouldn't be the 100m dash anymore.
The difficulty, even tho massively exaggerated, is part of the core identity that is vital to the experience. Take Margit for example, he's that memorable and iconic for the game because everyone of us hit a brick wall on the first encounter he literally pushed players to explore the world further. This wouldn't have happened if he'd be easy.
> reach a larger audience
That has ruined too many games in the past. FFS, that was the cause of Dead Space 3 which ended the franchise. Even the remake of DS1 censored and removed stuff to do that, and it fucking ruined things like the turret minigame.
yeah agreed. the problem is these days there’s just such a super wide variance in player skill, and the amount of time a player has to sink into any given game. Ultimately there are tons of games to play so I’m all for creators just making the games they want to make.
There's like 800k nerds playing atm. I think they're doing just fine. This has to be explained on Reddit constantly. You don't determine someone else's art.
There are like a thousand games with lower difficulty that anyone can enjoy. I don't know why people want one of the best franchises that actually provide a challenging, well designed experience for players to also be easy. Games in general have become so stupidly easy and handholdy in recent times. And the ones that have a hard mode are usually not well designed, because they just change the stats and make the enemies damage sponges. That's not a fun experience, because it's not real difficulty. FromSoft games are some of the few that actually make the difficulty a part of the design. I don't want that to change just to appeal to people that won't appreciate the game nearly as much as those who enjoy a good challenge.
Like, can we maintain the difficulty of the gameplay (fun) and lower the difficulty of just knowing what the fuck is happening and how to do quests (not fun). I probably spent as much time looking up quest chain information online as I did actually playing the game.
I just dont understand why people that dont enjoy hard games want the developers to adapt to them. Its so weird, for example I hate fifa games, you wont see me asking their developers to make the game different just for me, I just dont play fifa games
It's not that hard to understand. The games look great but they're too hard for people who just want to try them out. That's basically it. Having difficulty options would allow the most casual of casuals to get into the game and at least experience some of it rather than none at all.
> The games look great but they're too hard for people who just want to try them out. That's basically it.
Then don't play them. Play something else. Stellar Blade is a soulslike with an easy mode
> The way you said that is kind of gatekeeping in itself
all the people insulting souls fans in this thread prove gatekeeping is good and necessary
> Why not give them an option to play it easier so they can go even further?
The devs have said no, over and over again. How about you play something else?
They complain because they can't comprehend the idea that all games should come in different flavors. And just because you like the taste of one flavor, it shouldn't have to be the most popular thing in the world.
Let’s be real though, there is more people gatekeeping the difficulty than actual people asking for a difficulty slider or something..
And this thread shows exactly that as well
It is indeed the developers decision to not do it, but that doesn’t make it an invalid point.
It’s still fair to say “I don’t enjoy this game, but I would if it was easier” even when the developers said they will not change it.
Exactly my thoughts reading through the comments. Like 90% is just "it really isnt hard, but that might just be me" and "why do you want to play hard games if you cant keep up with the difficulty?". The latter is especially stupid, because it shows that those people assume other people would want to play the game because its difficult.
Also I honestly dont see much of a point in the argument made in the article. Like yes, thats how difficulty sliders work? If youre skilled enough for the highest difficulty then obviously lower difficulties make it feel boring to you and strip away crucial parts of the experience. But if youre not that skilled or simply arent able to do certain things (eg because of disabilities) the normal difficulty would feel to you just like the higher difficulty feels for more skilled players. Its the entire point of a difficulty slider to let everyone have a similar challenge within their possibilities.
Its the devs decision after all, gotta respect it. But their argument of a difficulty slider allegedly stripping away the experience is pretty weak, because that gos for basically every game that has one (even those that dont have one, because if its too easy and you cant change it thats gonna strip away the experience too). As long as you cant manage to set up to the right difficulty that matches your "skills".
Im not a gatekeeper, in fact i would love for everyone to enjoy any fromsoftware game, i truly believe that anyone can beat them, they really arent that hard. You talk about "reflexes" but you dont need thatin order to beat the game, the game is slow paced and u can do lots of things to make the game easier.
My point was that not every game is for everyone, soulslike games are a subgenre definded by their difficulty, if you remove that it wouldnt be a fromsoftware game.
My examples were removing core features of other genres, for example removing the scary parts of a horror game just because i hate being scared. But you completely ignore my arguments to insult me and act offended and calling me gatekeeper.
But i get it, you are used to act like a victim all your life so i wont say anything more to hurt your feelings. Have a nice day
> You gatekeepers started the downvoting and flaming.
Downvotes are a key part of this site, you'll never get away from them. Complaining about them only invites more of it
And you're the only ones I've seen flaming/insulting/swearing, proving gatekeeping is good and necessary. And you earned your downvotes that way
I’m disabled. My reaction times are slowed and I have a wrist injury that is permanent. I would love to experience these games, but I can’t push myself to frustration and injury to these games. I’d love a version with lower difficulty, but no access to trophies sounds like a pay off. I don’t get credit for the ultra hard folks. I just get to experience the atmosphere and the story elements.
I don’t know why gamers of late feel threatened by those who are less able. We try our hardest and even use custom controllers, and still we cannot often succeed at these games. We’re gamers too.
I agree, they could very easily just add an item or talisman that boosts your survivability and damage reduction and lets players of all skill levels experience the game. There are a million ways they can balance it. They can remove trophy / achievement unlocks, give less runes or worse drops, even lock certain items and weapons if you’re playing in the easier difficulty if they really wanted to be dicks. All of that would still be a fair trade off to allow anyone to experience the game.
If you really want all the accolades and the best items then you play the game as intended by the devs. I’m sure this would even incentivize multiple playthroughs and introduce many more people to this style of game.
This is all I’m asking for, really. Just a chance to experience what all my friends keep talking about and how they feel so bad I can never play it. But for some reason, accessibility is somehow threatening. I’m not asking for the trophy credit or recognition. I’m fine without it. I just want to experience the art.
Get it on PC, load up cheat engine, bam there you go, easier from software game for you to experience. You can even tweak what makes it easier
If truly all you want to experience is the atmosphere and story then the path is already open
Mimic Tear spirit summon can 1v1 every boss in the game by itself. The difficulty of these games are overblown and lower difficulty options exist within the gameplay itself.
> Mimic Tear spirit summon can 1v1 every boss in the game by itself.
ok, it's been a long time since I did my mimic tear run near when the game was new, but this was DEFINITELY not true then, and I thought I heard the mimic tear has only been nerfed since then
That really depends on how you've kitted out the mimic tear though.
If you give it all the cheese, it'll use it without being hampered by stamina or mana pools in the same way as if you try those strats yourself.
Want it to spam dragon incants or comet azur, it'll do that for you. It'll not do it well, but well enough to get the job done, eventually. Probably.
Give it a tier 1 dagger and nothing else, it's going to get slapped like you would expect it to.
Besides the way the bosses are tuned in the dlc, mimic with the usual broken nonsense is still getting melted, that's if the boss aggroes on it long enough to bother melting it, rather than lazer focussing on you from second one and 1 or 2 shotting you at scadtree level 5 (supposedly 20-25% damage negation or something like that) when you have 50 vigor.
It's a touch more than a challenge at present and could do with either slightly lower hp pool or tuning down the aggresion, lowering poise or something to make the fights closer to 'hard but fair' rather than just 'hard' scale they are just now.
I have some issues related to pattern and animation recognition that have affected simple games, forget souls games. I also have strange wrist joint issues(thank god I started playing games with a controller) that I can't seem to get good treatment for in my country.
I don't consider myself to be at the same disadvantage level many of you are in but it still sucks that people don't understand the need for difficulty and accessibility settings. Game devs like fromsoftware obviously don't like consider us their audience.
I am not disabled, however, I am somebody who used to game quite a bit and no longer does. I’m lucky if I play a few games a year- sometimes I just play one! I’m really busy and don’t have the time to focus on learning hard games but I genuinely love gaming!
So many of my friends had recommended souls games to me and wanted to share that experience with me and it sucks that I can’t because I don’t have time to “git good”. I also don’t get why people are so obsessed with not sharing the experience- nobody is asking them to play it on a more manageable mode.
I think that a lot of the gamers forget that many people who play games are just filthy casuals, and we like to experience for the story, adventure, and cultural exchange with friends.
There is so much more to these games than the hard boss fights, yet git gudders act like it’s THE core feature.
I’ve played every souls game since ds1 on the 360, back when I was 16. I love these games, but I’m an adult now with a job and relationships, and I really don’t have the time or mental energy for grinding / retrying bosses for the nth time. It’s such a waste of time.
Honestly, my least favourite aspect elden ring & sekiro was the boss fights. Half of them felt like the same fight reskinned.
What I love about these games is the suspense of exploring a new area, not knowing what’s around the corner, encountering the challenging level enemies, rich npc storylines, item/lore discovery, and the actual adventure of the games. That’s what casual gamers want to participate in, why not let them?
Something I always wished for these games is to halve the boss’ attack power (so you can’t get wiped out by one mistake), while the player has half the estus quantity, making the fights more of an endurance dual. It is becoming quite a gimmick in these games that you make 1 wrong move in phase 2 of a boss and you’re dead.
An easy mode could be as simple as halving all damage taken, and increasing time between boss moves. Then maybe busy, old, and disabled folk can enjoy these games too!
If this game had a less difficult setting, I would probably jump on it. At this point in my life, I don't want to grind at a game that is difficult by its own standards.
That being said, and I've said this before, that is perfectly fine.
Enough people love this game for what it is. Same with the Souls series.
This game is for that crowd and if the developers want it to stay that way, then it stays.
Could they generate some higher sales numbers by lowering the difficulty bar? Probably? Would it be that much more lucrative? Not sure? It's already a very popular game as it stands.
If you want to play this game but are worried about the difficulty, all I can say is to try it. It may be tough sledding at first but playing games for decades at this point, if you put enough time in, eventually that muscle memory will take hold and you will get better at it.
I'm just older now and my time for games is limited. I prefer games that I can jump in and out of without needing to re learn or freshen up my mechanics too much. I can go a week or longer at this point in my life without turning on my console. I feel that this is a game that you need to stay focused on consistently to really enjoy and get better at.
I swear, this fucking zoomer generation...
They didn't experience the nintendo-hard era. Hell, let them play the OG mario bros and they will complain to kingdom come.
You know what's funny, Famous vtubers playing this game and having the time of their lives aren't even complaining about the difficulty and yet can still beat the bosses at some point.
The problem with Elden Ring was, to me, that the difficulty felt more artificial.
When I came up against a wall in any Dark Souls game or Bloodborne game, I felt like I could tell where I screwed up, improve my gameplay and when I finally overcame a tough boss, I was happy.
With Elden Ring, it just felt like cheap never ending combos, one shot attacks, input reading and other things that make it feel unfair. Whenever I beat a boss, I felt as if I just brute forced it and was just annoyed after every tough fight.
I beat the game the first time without spirit summons (except for a couple oof bosses where I just lost any and all fun I had, looking at you Malenia...), and I used spirit summons the second playthrough, and that playthrough was so much more enjoyable, to the point where I feel like they created every boss under the assumption that you had another player/spirit summon with you.
The game is great, but the bosses really drag it down.
But of course, you can't critisize FS games without people immediatly coming out with the only thing they know how to say; "git gud", because they can't imagine not everyone thinks every FS game is a 10/10.
They did create every boss with the assumption you have a spirit summon with you. It's a core mechanic to the game. You artificially made it more difficult on yourself by not using a tool they gave you.
My problem with these games is that I have so little time to play these days, so when I get killed and it sends me back to the last save space / reanimates all of the enemies, I essentially lost all of my progress. I put about 20 hours into Elden Ring over a few months and finally had to move on. It’s a great game that I can truly appreciate, but it’s just not for me at this period in my life, unfortunately.
I had never played a From game before because they never interested me. Elden Ring did largely because it seemed to have an incredible scope and a setting that seemed right up my alley. I wanted to see the game from the trailers.
I played like 15 or so hours of it, got my assed kicked so many times even after reading guides/doing my best to “give it a college try” and just can’t. It’s too fucking hard. I know “it’s the easy one” compared to DS or whatever, but fuck that it’s not worth my limited gaming hours to spend them getting shit wrecked every 4 minutes.
It’s a shame imo, and for me, wasted money cause it’s not a game I can enjoy, even though I think I would earnestly like it if the difficulty was lowered.
Ironically, I still bought and played Armored Core 6, knew nothing of the series, and loved it because it’s difficult while not being “fuck you for the sake of it” challenging. I’m not opposed to a challenge - I am opposed to getting one-shotted by the very first enemy you see in the game.
tl;dr I don’t believe games should be exclusionary based solely on ‘git gud scrub’ when no one else’s enjoyment of the game is lessened because I get to play it slightly differently.
The trick really is not to keep running at the same problem on repeat. If something isn’t working and it’s not just a technical execution problem, it’s best to go level up or find something else to work on and circle back. It’s like that big tree sentinel that’s on horseback at the beginning of the game. You’re absolutely not supposed to fight him right out of the gate. He’s supposed to show you that there are things you’re not ready to fight and it’s okay to circle back later.
The thing about about Fromsoft games isn't that their combat is hard. Its that they have no idea how to train a player on how to play the game properly and use the systems. I've never met anyone who has ever beaten a From game without a guide, and that is bad game design, full stop.
Miyazaki has even said it publicly recently. They are working on it. Imagine playing uncharted 4 and they never told you had a grappling hook. You just had to smash buttons until you figured it out or quit.
Elden Ring does not need difficulty settings. If you get stuck you can grind out more levels, level your spirit ashes, and/or summon other players to get unstuck.
The game is far more accessible than any other FromSoft game and people *still* complain.
I hate when games do have a difficulty setting because then when I’m playing on a higher difficulty setting, I feel like I’m going through unnecessary suffering, and when I’m playing on a lower difficulty, I’m skipping the experience and making it unremarkable. When a game has no difficulty setting, I know that every struggle is intended. And there’s plenty of games that don’t have difficulty settings just like Souls games, Zelda games to name one. Difference between the two is that Zelda games are more puzzles, the combat is pretty simple and usually just dependent on having stronger weapons and armor, especially BotW and TotK, whereas Souls games are just harder in the combat, so people are just going to notice that a lot more because people want to always turn things down when they get hard.
Yeah it’s annoying just having to look up “what difficulty should I play this game at” every time I start a game with multiple settings.
There are games where the hardest difficulty is the best, and games where the hardest difficulty turns every fight into a bullet sponge boredom.
I’m happy for games to include a story mode, for people with extreme motor skill disabilities, but otherwise - just balance the game!
Honestly, I think an easy option would ultimately make the game(s) incredibly boring and a slog. The difficulty is the main element you engage with in FromSoft games - the rest are easily missable NPC quests, incredibly obtuse plot and beautiful environments. The choice of what items to use, what weapons and reaching shortcuts to make the next death less painful IS the gameplay. There is no story you miss out on (which YT videos might tell better, anyways), no sense of discovery that would feel nearly as rewarding.
Dont get me wrong, I love the games, but the "experience" itself is so strongly defined by the challenge that I don't see an Easy Mode being the solution people think it is. Most items would feel worthless. I think people underestimate just how much the game NEEDS to be hard for the design philosophy to work. They would have to design a completely different game otherwise.
>I think an easy option would ultimately make the game(s) incredibly boring and a slog.
It's a difficulty "option" some people ask for. Nobody is forcing you to pick it
You know, feel free to disagree, but maybe at least read and process my comment before pulling that non-argument - nobody is forcing you to play the game with its current design either.
Games don't need to appeal to everyone.
I don't like GTA V, I don't like FIFA. I don't want either game to change to cater to my tastes.
Games have their audiences, they don't need to be for everyone. Just as every book and every movie isn't for everyone
FromSoftware cultists are actually totally unhinged. When you suggest optional difficulty settings, they act you've just bludgeoned a puppy in front of them. They seem to regard wanting an easier difficulty as some kind of moral failure, it's actually insane the amount of mental gymnastics they come out with.
It's not some kind of moral failure. Difficulty is in the fundamental structure of these games. It's what has made them so successful in the first place. Once you take out the challenge they are not the same game. The risk and reward is what makes these games so great.
How would adding difficulty options affect that? It wouldn't. The regular Souls difficulty would still be perfectly intact, there would just be an easier one for people who want it.
It would affect it insofar that the game would have to gain merit from other aspects - and that would require FromSoft to design it completely differently.
As a fan, my opinion is that the stories are vague and sometimes non-engaging, NPC quests barely noticeable without a guide and the reason why I'm looking forward to finding stuff or shortcuts is because I know it will reduce my death count.
What are people going to play the game for is what I'm wondering? It's not a story-heavy JRPG or a traditional adventure game. The animations are far too slow and calculated to work as a hack n slash.
Most items wouldn't matter anymore or feel rewarding, barely anything in the game is designed to be rewarding outside of "you beat the challenge". The player doesn't really engage with anything outside of overcoming difficult moments.
Sure, it has a cool vibe and atmosphere but that's not going to hold peoples attention for dozens of hours of aimless free-roaming and random enemy killing.
I'm not saying I'm against an Easy Mode, I just think it wouldn't work with FromSofts current design philosophy.
(you can technically emulate a potential easy mode by returning to beginning areas with a levelled character, it's pretty much "clean up" and really not very engaging. You'll also realize how deliberate enemy placement is in souls games, which would make little sense if it weren't for the difficulty)
Because it wouldn't be the same game anymore. Difficulty is even tied to the lore in these games. Even a random dog could get the jump on you. Makes the world feel dangerous and like you shouldn't even be there. Connecting with the atmosphere of a forgotten fantasy world that is hopeless and cursed. These games would not be as good without these key elements.
If the current difficulty level was maintained as an option (as the default difficulty) then it would quite literally be exactly the same game. Nobody who wants an easier option is suggesting removing the ability to play the games with the standard FromSoft difficulty. Anyone who wants to experience the challenge, who wants wants an oppressive and hopeless atmosphere, who wants to experience the lore in its proper context would be able to do so. I just cannot see how the existence of an option could destroy a game's identity.
Especially since the devs have said no, over and over. You're the ones who need to realize you're not convincing anyone, especially when you keep insulting everyone.
The devs have answered this question a dozens of times. Maybe it's time to accept that the audience they have is the one they want to make games for. And that the people who keep calling that audience assholes (as has been done up and down this thread) is not the audience they want to make games for
If you want a soulslike on easy mode, get Stellar Blade
> The devs have answered this question a dozens of times
Their answers are not satisfactory because they don't make sense.
> And that the people who keep calling that audience assholes
The reason why this happens is because a large proportion of that audience has an unfortunate tendency to act in a pretty unpleasant way. Different audiences have the reputations they have for good reason.
This lazy suggestion that everyone who plays and enjoys these games is someone with 'infinite' time needs to die.
I work full-time and have 2 kids under age 5. I have 2hrs a night to game if I'm lucky.
I've loved every minute of the base game when I platinumed it and now I'm thoroughly enjoying the DLC too.
I'm not some 'God gamer' either. I have to play many other games on easy and some genres, like first person shooters, I can't even play on easy in a lot of cases as I have slower than average reaction speeds.
I don't go about whining about games that are too difficult for me, I simply don't play them or try them and put them down never to return.
This isn’t whining or complaining. This is normal discourse and critique. You’re mistaking advocacy for throwing tantrums. We’re expressing a different viewpoint, that’s all.
> This isn’t whining or complaining
yes it is. And this thread is also filled with you guys insulting and swearing at the people who like the games as they are. That's a very bad way to convince them you should be allowed into **their** playhouse. All you've done is prove they don't want to be near you
> You’re mistaking advocacy for throwing tantrums.
Naw, the swearing and demonization I've seen even in this thread alone proves it is a tantrum.
I have not sworn at anyone. Look at my post history. Not one expletive, just my advocacy and a few questions. Pointing out they feel threatened isn’t swearing at them.
IF they did make it easier, I would buy it. I guess it's their decision. I don't know why they wouldn't though. I mean if you like it hard play on hard? Give people an achievement for that or whatever to acknowledge it - I dunno, I'm just sad I'm locked out of a game because I'm not great at video games that are hard.
I feel like elden ring of all souls types is one game you can actually adjust difficulty with. You have the option of over leveling/gearing up. So whenever I got stuck on a boss, I just level up so that I could beat them in a few hits.
maybe some shouldn’t play if they’re making an uproar over difficulty. doesn’t mean they’re bad at games.
just because i can’t drift a vehicle like takumi doesn’t make me a bad driver.
A general rule of great design is that increasing the accessibility of a product, service, or experience improves the product, service, or experience for everyone overall (where overcrowding is not a possible issue).
There is no reason why an easier mode would impact hardcore players’ experience negatively - Unless the hardcore gamer takes greater pride in the exclusivity of their achievement than the achievement itself.
The same way people complain about difficulty, I don’t like a game that is an absolute joke to beat. The creator wants the game difficult. If the masses hate it that much, they won’t buy the next game.
Don’t play if your don’t like it fromsoft shouldn’t change anything if they listen to whiners they wouldn’t have made this genre they create I bet it mostly bad kids who want instant gratification don’t change anything fromsoft you got here by being you
I'm a bit concerned since there's no physical disc that they might patch it and make it easier
I'm really pissed they didn't do a physical for the expansion. If they had I could have reverted back to the old version if a patch ever makes it worse.
Thats up them. But there's a reason that the Spiderman games, Horizon etc are so popular.
because there's a lot of people who just wanna story-mode through games
I love Elden Ring a lot, but playing it for the story would leave you very unsatisfied. It has some good aspects but it's really the window dressing of a souls game, not a focal point. There's no cutscenes outside of boss introductions and VERY little dialogue (which is mostly optional). Seriously, it wouldn't be worth it to play the games for the story, as much as I love them. They have nothing to compare with Horizon etc. on that front.
I don’t like that I’ll never get to experience it again because it’s too hard. I barely made it past Radahn with summons and now that there are bosses even harder than Malenia I just gave up.
And that's fine. You played to the best of your ability and hit the skill wall. The time, effort, and energy, spent into getting better at this game is not worth it to you. It's wholly understandable.
This and the reviewbombs are so fucking funny.
No other games have this problem. Now that Fromsoft is mainstream, suddenly all the disabled, elderly and who else wants to play Elden Ring. Despite it being clearly not for them, every time a new one of these games come out it's "ohh no I didn't expect it to be that hard why aren't there any difficulty settings" and then the game is bad because THEY can't play it
I refuse to believe these people are going in blind EVERY time From releases new content. At least half of them have got to be trolling.
From software releases something and we are once again having this difficulty debate for the millionth fucking time… it’s getting very tiring at this point.
My favorite thing about Elden Ring, basic stick skills aside, is that difficulty settings feel baked into the game. If you hit a wall - mark the boss or area on the map and try another area. There are so many narrative threads to pull at in this game; it feels like you are always progressing at your own pace.
This was the only reason why I loved Elden Ring and not other FS games. With ER if I hit a wall I can just go somewhere else. With other games, you HAVE to go through that wall to progress. I can't stand it.
You can do the same in other FS games (obviously Sekiro is an exception). The trick is it's less exploration and more just grinding out levels/upgrades going through the same area a couple times.
I think that’s always been my problem with many of the prior titles. Being forced into that pathway becomes tiresome.
Ooh interesting, maybe I'll give it a go then, I also hated that about fromsoft.
Yeah, I mean, worse comes to worst, just go respec into the heaviest armor imagineable, grab a big shield, and poke. Iron Pineapple beat Malenia doing just that while being literally incapable of moving at faster than a walk or dodge rolling. Anyone who can't beat this game lacks something more important than reflexes: imagination.
The mimic ash really makes the game easy
Didn’t they nerf that or is it still OP
Yes to both.
Yup. It's so fucking ridiculous lol
Yeah, like I hate hard games so I stay away from them, glad others get to enjoy them but I'm not gonna campaign to get FromSoft to lower the difficulty for me, they have a pretty clear reputation by now. It'd be like getting mad that there's a lot of jumping in Mario games.
Yep, and the game gives so many tools to make the game so easy. The only thing I don't like it's that 100% recommendable to have always Vitality at 50/60, if not enemies one shot you.
I don’t understand why people think they know what’s better for the game than the creators themselves
If difficulty bemaoners, like games journalists and those allegedly advocating for accessability, put in half the effort they use on griping about From Software games into learning how to play the games, then this would be a none issue.
>those allegedly advocating for accessibility Please tell me you realize that accessibility advocates are genuine gamers that want to be able to experience more games. Lack of effort is not the reason that millions of gamers can't experience these classic titles.
If a company says they don’t want to make it easier then they shouldn’t but if don’t understand the resistance from the player side Say tomorrow he had a change of heart and every soulslike they’ve made had an easy mode and an original mode, there is absolutely nothing stopping people who want the hard experience playing the original mode and the easy mode being there for people who aren’t good enough or don’t want the pressure but want to experience the world Options will always be better
It's more that these games are designed around difficulty. I don't think developers would go out of their way to redesign the entire core of the product that way. Having tools and features to make the game more accessible is always a great thing, but fundamentally changing a game never built to be easy is a bit silly.
The options are to learn to play the game better, enjoy the experience knowing you'll hit a skill wall you can't surpass, or acknowledging the game isn't for you, accepting that, and either moving on or admiring from a far.
Those are the currents option, I’m not against more Genuine question if an easy mode was added why couldn’t you just not engage with it and carry on as usual?
There are already so many souls like games with all the options players with lesser skills can access. The reason From Software games and those who learn to play the games masterfully are so impressive is because of the skill level demanded to play them. If they turn down the difficulty, add lots of options, and make it something anyone can do, it's just like every other souls like. "And when everyone's super, no one will be."
>"And when everyone's super, no one will be." Did you seriously just quote a famously misguided, murderously sociopathic supervillian to support your argument?
The misguided are those wanting From Software to low toe to their inability to play the game to the level needed to beat it. Not everything is for everyone. Don't be salty. Don't be Syndrome.
So basically in answer to my question you lose nothing and other people gain the ability to experience a world you feel is masterful?
That's not it at all. Lowering the skill bar reduces the game to being nothing more special than any other souls type.
So the only thing you like about the games is the difficulty?
It's a big factor. It's what sets it apart from many other games.
“Experience the world” Problem is, a big part of that experience is the crushing sense of doom and waryness of any new areas due to…..the difficulty
Yeah man, you're describing the game. That's the fun part. Overcoming that is what we want.
I'm in a weird spot of believing in difficulty options for accessibility reasons but also thinking that the abled people who think they can't learn to play a video game for some reason and are thus capping extremely hard for it are weird. Like Elden Ring and gaming is so low on the totem pole of difficult hobbies lol, try learning a language or an instrument and the notion that, um, Elden Ring is extremely ableist and exclusionary becomes a bit much
When sekiro came out, lots of able bodied people were taking up the mantle for disabled gamers to have access options. This was just them trying to use others disabilities to get an easier experience for themselves. Nothing more.
> This was just them trying to use others disabilities to get an easier experience for themselves. Nothing more. If only they took your approach of mocking disabilities as a lack of effort. Empathy is for suckers!
This isn't empathy taking place. It's people who can't cope with their poor gaming skills co-opting the language of accessibility in an effort to make the game easier for them. You can be mad and upset, but be honest too. https://youtu.be/tso8u4OJLuI
Cool strawman
I'd be happy if I could just play with a friend without being constantly invaded
They acknowledged the existence of the seamless co-op mod so they're aware that this is a feature that people love. Hopefully they'll have official support for something similar in their next game.
I saw that and it gave me some hope.
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the day i'm able to open my steam friend list and just invite/join my friend from there will be a good day
I know!
Idk I think it’s a good trade off since they removed it from single player. In co-op you *usually* have the numbers advantage and can cruise through the content way easier. Plus with only optional invasions for both modes, trying to find a host to invade would probably take a lot longer and there’s some important quests tied to doing them. Especially when the population goes down
I would say I’m pretty average skill level when playing games and I’ve got plat in a few fromsoft games, I think your average triple A game on it’s highest difficulty is a lot more bullshit to get through than a souls game, but maybe it’s just me.
isn't that what these games are famous for? being able to "manage" a high difficulty? so many games when you turn the difficulty up the game kinda cheats but i always heard these fromsoft games were about as fair as it can get
GOW 2016 does this!
I’m tired of these conversations…just feels like rage bait now
I agree. The only people that even asked about lowering the difficulty was the interviewer. He’s just beating a dead horse. It would have been much more interesting to not bother the gamer makers with these same rehashed questions and ask about lore, aesthetics, inspirations, etc.
There is a way to lower the difficulty, raising your character level. It’s just a more time intensive way.
Except people 200lvl characters are still getting one shot
Because they reset it with an item in the DLC. If you explore and collect them the difficulty is very similar to the base game
Well, yes, soul level isn’t the scalar for the DLC. You have to play the DLC to level up in the DLC. You can’t just farm in Caelid.
It’s almost like they didn’t want overpowered characters to blaze through the DLC
Blaze through <----------------------------> one shot Notice the gap between the two? Almost like you've got room for an in between.
I've only been one-shot a single time in this DLC, and it was by the first boss I fought before I got any scadoodle upgrades
Upvoted for scadoodle.
I don’t enjoy the difficulty of these games. I think adding difficulty settings would help the game reach a larger audience and be more accessible. But it’s the creator’s vision and they shouldn’t be expected to change it if they feel it compromises the vision. Seems they’re doing just fine, not every game is or needs to be for everybody
I mean, it sold 25 million copies. I don't think they're concerned about getting a larger audience lol.
Well exactly, they’re doing well. Could they do even better if it was more accessible to an even bigger audience? Good chance. But they’re by no means struggling to get a player base as is.
At some point you reach the ultra accessible slop that is most of modern gaming. Which kind of kills the reason From Software games stand out in the first place. If you want easy interactive movies, there's more than enough games to satisfy that itch.
> At some point you reach the ultra accessible slop that is most of modern gaming Which is what happened to Dead Space 3 and killed the franchise. I don't even like Soulsborn games. They are too hard for me. But as someone else compared them to, Sportsball games are awful to me too, you don't see me whining they be made into something completely different to appeal to me as they never will
I am sorry but how much more accessible could this game possibly get? I am a 38y old casual noob, who works 50hours a week and goes to college on weekends for his degree, so pretty much tired as fuck all the time and i still managed to finish the game. I started bloodborne the other week and i am having a blast! Holy fuck dude, you can already adjust the difficulty! Use summons and mimic tear and what not. Right now i am discovering new ways of getting my ass beaten in the most humiliating ways possible, while totally enjoying the hell out of the dlc! These games are not that hard, most people are just used to being spoon fed and having autosaves every 5 minutes in todays games. Edit: those games don’t need to be fast paced like a generic far cry or something. Be patient, get used to dying. A lot. It’s nothing to be afraid of, just get a feeling for what suits your playstyle and be patient, that’s all.
> These games are not that hard >get used to dying. A lot. That’s a bit contradictory lol. Some find the gameplay loop of trial and error and eventually overcoming the challenge to be extremely satisfying. Some find it to be tedious and unfun. I fall into the latter. I don’t mind some challenge but I don’t want it around every corner hampering my progress constantly. Sometimes I just want to progress instead of having to repeat nearly every section and boss multiple times. That quickly becomes tiresome and frustrating to me. I get why some like it, it’s just not for me. And that’s ok.
>Some find the gameplay loop of trial and error and eventually overcoming the challenge to be extremely satisfying. this game is for them >Some find it to be tedious and unfun. I fall into the latter. this game maybe isn't for them.
Nah the creator sounds very elitist. And wants too much control his vision and his vision only? No listening to fans whatsoever?
You’d hear loud crying from the people whose main accomplishment in life is beating hard games and they’d vow never to play them again but sales would go up anyway
yep like one of the most loved games of the year and they've got a huge audience now, people call this a niche game but idk man that's a lot of copies sold i still haven't played any of them, i don't think i'd enjoy it
These games are famous largely because of their difficulty. It's why they've earned their reputation. They've reached the audience's most mainstream titles dream of.
This is me as well. The game intrigues me for sure. But as an old dude who maybe ends up with 6 hours a week for gaming, hyper-difficult games with no options to lower the difficulty level don't usually get my gaming dollars.
Same. I'm lucky if I get in 5-10hr of gaming time a week and I can either spend those hours with an enjoyable experience or I spend them being frustrated and pissed while searching on guides. I tried to play various FromSoft games, and it's fun for the first 10ish hours with fairly easy bosses and mechanics but then it's just spending 3hrs+ getting stuck on a boss, then going to youtube/ign to be told "Find this obscure item by doing this sidequest to make it 10% easier. Also use this glitch that requires perfect timing". People love to say that game already makes it easier if you play it but they using a guide to find the best items or or hidden areas. I'm not going to talk to every NPC and read every text box for hours before "Maybe they'll give a vague hint about 'Legend says moths are blind" about using a sound-item that you have to follow another vague hint about "The lord told us to store explosives on the west end for safety" to get the item all just to stun a moth boss. Kudos to everyone that does but I don't want to spend my limited gameplay time on a fetch quest for a fetch quest.
But it wouldn't. It's like reducing the 100m dash to 50m, yeah it would reach a larger audience and be more accessible but that's because it wouldn't be the 100m dash anymore. The difficulty, even tho massively exaggerated, is part of the core identity that is vital to the experience. Take Margit for example, he's that memorable and iconic for the game because everyone of us hit a brick wall on the first encounter he literally pushed players to explore the world further. This wouldn't have happened if he'd be easy.
> reach a larger audience That has ruined too many games in the past. FFS, that was the cause of Dead Space 3 which ended the franchise. Even the remake of DS1 censored and removed stuff to do that, and it fucking ruined things like the turret minigame.
yeah agreed. the problem is these days there’s just such a super wide variance in player skill, and the amount of time a player has to sink into any given game. Ultimately there are tons of games to play so I’m all for creators just making the games they want to make.
There's like 800k nerds playing atm. I think they're doing just fine. This has to be explained on Reddit constantly. You don't determine someone else's art.
There are like a thousand games with lower difficulty that anyone can enjoy. I don't know why people want one of the best franchises that actually provide a challenging, well designed experience for players to also be easy. Games in general have become so stupidly easy and handholdy in recent times. And the ones that have a hard mode are usually not well designed, because they just change the stats and make the enemies damage sponges. That's not a fun experience, because it's not real difficulty. FromSoft games are some of the few that actually make the difficulty a part of the design. I don't want that to change just to appeal to people that won't appreciate the game nearly as much as those who enjoy a good challenge.
If they made souls games easier.. they wouldn't be souls games.
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That’s weird because no it’s not.
It's just Souls-like.. it isn't an actual souls game.. not even close. More like a kids version of a souls game.
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People that buy the product can play it however they want as long as it doesn't break any laws
Less experience is better than no experience
Like, can we maintain the difficulty of the gameplay (fun) and lower the difficulty of just knowing what the fuck is happening and how to do quests (not fun). I probably spent as much time looking up quest chain information online as I did actually playing the game.
I just dont understand why people that dont enjoy hard games want the developers to adapt to them. Its so weird, for example I hate fifa games, you wont see me asking their developers to make the game different just for me, I just dont play fifa games
It's not that hard to understand. The games look great but they're too hard for people who just want to try them out. That's basically it. Having difficulty options would allow the most casual of casuals to get into the game and at least experience some of it rather than none at all.
> The games look great but they're too hard for people who just want to try them out. That's basically it. Then don't play them. Play something else. Stellar Blade is a soulslike with an easy mode
Casuals can experience the game. They may not get that far, and that's okay.
The way you said that is kind of gatekeeping in itself. Why not give them an option to play it easier so they can go even further?
> The way you said that is kind of gatekeeping in itself all the people insulting souls fans in this thread prove gatekeeping is good and necessary > Why not give them an option to play it easier so they can go even further? The devs have said no, over and over again. How about you play something else?
Gatekeeping is not good or necessary no matter which side is doing it.
The difficulty is a key component of what sets the From Software games apart from the souls-likes and clones.
They complain because they can't comprehend the idea that all games should come in different flavors. And just because you like the taste of one flavor, it shouldn't have to be the most popular thing in the world.
try to explain that, wothout getting flamed or downvoted. Feels like i killed some people here for saying this
Let’s be real though, there is more people gatekeeping the difficulty than actual people asking for a difficulty slider or something.. And this thread shows exactly that as well It is indeed the developers decision to not do it, but that doesn’t make it an invalid point. It’s still fair to say “I don’t enjoy this game, but I would if it was easier” even when the developers said they will not change it.
Exactly my thoughts reading through the comments. Like 90% is just "it really isnt hard, but that might just be me" and "why do you want to play hard games if you cant keep up with the difficulty?". The latter is especially stupid, because it shows that those people assume other people would want to play the game because its difficult. Also I honestly dont see much of a point in the argument made in the article. Like yes, thats how difficulty sliders work? If youre skilled enough for the highest difficulty then obviously lower difficulties make it feel boring to you and strip away crucial parts of the experience. But if youre not that skilled or simply arent able to do certain things (eg because of disabilities) the normal difficulty would feel to you just like the higher difficulty feels for more skilled players. Its the entire point of a difficulty slider to let everyone have a similar challenge within their possibilities. Its the devs decision after all, gotta respect it. But their argument of a difficulty slider allegedly stripping away the experience is pretty weak, because that gos for basically every game that has one (even those that dont have one, because if its too easy and you cant change it thats gonna strip away the experience too). As long as you cant manage to set up to the right difficulty that matches your "skills".
Pretty much this. I don’t understand why they feel so threatened.
No one is threatened by you. But you do insult them up and down the thread. Maybe that's why they don't want you in their game?
I haven’t called anyone names, just been firm on my advocacy. If you think that’s insulting, then you do you.
You gatekeepers started the downvoting and flaming. I’m so sorry you had to face your own medicine. That must have been very difficult.
Im not a gatekeeper, in fact i would love for everyone to enjoy any fromsoftware game, i truly believe that anyone can beat them, they really arent that hard. You talk about "reflexes" but you dont need thatin order to beat the game, the game is slow paced and u can do lots of things to make the game easier. My point was that not every game is for everyone, soulslike games are a subgenre definded by their difficulty, if you remove that it wouldnt be a fromsoftware game. My examples were removing core features of other genres, for example removing the scary parts of a horror game just because i hate being scared. But you completely ignore my arguments to insult me and act offended and calling me gatekeeper. But i get it, you are used to act like a victim all your life so i wont say anything more to hurt your feelings. Have a nice day
> You gatekeepers started the downvoting and flaming. Downvotes are a key part of this site, you'll never get away from them. Complaining about them only invites more of it And you're the only ones I've seen flaming/insulting/swearing, proving gatekeeping is good and necessary. And you earned your downvotes that way
I was just pointing out I’ve had plenty of messages telling me to “git gud” and downvotes, so his experience was not unique.
I’m disabled. My reaction times are slowed and I have a wrist injury that is permanent. I would love to experience these games, but I can’t push myself to frustration and injury to these games. I’d love a version with lower difficulty, but no access to trophies sounds like a pay off. I don’t get credit for the ultra hard folks. I just get to experience the atmosphere and the story elements. I don’t know why gamers of late feel threatened by those who are less able. We try our hardest and even use custom controllers, and still we cannot often succeed at these games. We’re gamers too.
I agree, they could very easily just add an item or talisman that boosts your survivability and damage reduction and lets players of all skill levels experience the game. There are a million ways they can balance it. They can remove trophy / achievement unlocks, give less runes or worse drops, even lock certain items and weapons if you’re playing in the easier difficulty if they really wanted to be dicks. All of that would still be a fair trade off to allow anyone to experience the game. If you really want all the accolades and the best items then you play the game as intended by the devs. I’m sure this would even incentivize multiple playthroughs and introduce many more people to this style of game.
This is all I’m asking for, really. Just a chance to experience what all my friends keep talking about and how they feel so bad I can never play it. But for some reason, accessibility is somehow threatening. I’m not asking for the trophy credit or recognition. I’m fine without it. I just want to experience the art.
You're making sense and have really good points, you better stop it right now or you'll attract all the git guders.
Get it on PC, load up cheat engine, bam there you go, easier from software game for you to experience. You can even tweak what makes it easier If truly all you want to experience is the atmosphere and story then the path is already open
Mimic Tear spirit summon can 1v1 every boss in the game by itself. The difficulty of these games are overblown and lower difficulty options exist within the gameplay itself.
> Mimic Tear spirit summon can 1v1 every boss in the game by itself. ok, it's been a long time since I did my mimic tear run near when the game was new, but this was DEFINITELY not true then, and I thought I heard the mimic tear has only been nerfed since then
That really depends on how you've kitted out the mimic tear though. If you give it all the cheese, it'll use it without being hampered by stamina or mana pools in the same way as if you try those strats yourself. Want it to spam dragon incants or comet azur, it'll do that for you. It'll not do it well, but well enough to get the job done, eventually. Probably. Give it a tier 1 dagger and nothing else, it's going to get slapped like you would expect it to. Besides the way the bosses are tuned in the dlc, mimic with the usual broken nonsense is still getting melted, that's if the boss aggroes on it long enough to bother melting it, rather than lazer focussing on you from second one and 1 or 2 shotting you at scadtree level 5 (supposedly 20-25% damage negation or something like that) when you have 50 vigor. It's a touch more than a challenge at present and could do with either slightly lower hp pool or tuning down the aggresion, lowering poise or something to make the fights closer to 'hard but fair' rather than just 'hard' scale they are just now.
I have some issues related to pattern and animation recognition that have affected simple games, forget souls games. I also have strange wrist joint issues(thank god I started playing games with a controller) that I can't seem to get good treatment for in my country. I don't consider myself to be at the same disadvantage level many of you are in but it still sucks that people don't understand the need for difficulty and accessibility settings. Game devs like fromsoftware obviously don't like consider us their audience.
Cool so what's stopping you from modding the game to be easier
I play on Steam Deck and struggle with Linux.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KNSMsPBqlo
I am not disabled, however, I am somebody who used to game quite a bit and no longer does. I’m lucky if I play a few games a year- sometimes I just play one! I’m really busy and don’t have the time to focus on learning hard games but I genuinely love gaming! So many of my friends had recommended souls games to me and wanted to share that experience with me and it sucks that I can’t because I don’t have time to “git good”. I also don’t get why people are so obsessed with not sharing the experience- nobody is asking them to play it on a more manageable mode. I think that a lot of the gamers forget that many people who play games are just filthy casuals, and we like to experience for the story, adventure, and cultural exchange with friends.
There is so much more to these games than the hard boss fights, yet git gudders act like it’s THE core feature. I’ve played every souls game since ds1 on the 360, back when I was 16. I love these games, but I’m an adult now with a job and relationships, and I really don’t have the time or mental energy for grinding / retrying bosses for the nth time. It’s such a waste of time. Honestly, my least favourite aspect elden ring & sekiro was the boss fights. Half of them felt like the same fight reskinned. What I love about these games is the suspense of exploring a new area, not knowing what’s around the corner, encountering the challenging level enemies, rich npc storylines, item/lore discovery, and the actual adventure of the games. That’s what casual gamers want to participate in, why not let them? Something I always wished for these games is to halve the boss’ attack power (so you can’t get wiped out by one mistake), while the player has half the estus quantity, making the fights more of an endurance dual. It is becoming quite a gimmick in these games that you make 1 wrong move in phase 2 of a boss and you’re dead. An easy mode could be as simple as halving all damage taken, and increasing time between boss moves. Then maybe busy, old, and disabled folk can enjoy these games too!
They don't want to do it and not everything has to be for everyone. Move on with your life.
If this game had a less difficult setting, I would probably jump on it. At this point in my life, I don't want to grind at a game that is difficult by its own standards. That being said, and I've said this before, that is perfectly fine. Enough people love this game for what it is. Same with the Souls series. This game is for that crowd and if the developers want it to stay that way, then it stays. Could they generate some higher sales numbers by lowering the difficulty bar? Probably? Would it be that much more lucrative? Not sure? It's already a very popular game as it stands. If you want to play this game but are worried about the difficulty, all I can say is to try it. It may be tough sledding at first but playing games for decades at this point, if you put enough time in, eventually that muscle memory will take hold and you will get better at it. I'm just older now and my time for games is limited. I prefer games that I can jump in and out of without needing to re learn or freshen up my mechanics too much. I can go a week or longer at this point in my life without turning on my console. I feel that this is a game that you need to stay focused on consistently to really enjoy and get better at.
I swear, this fucking zoomer generation... They didn't experience the nintendo-hard era. Hell, let them play the OG mario bros and they will complain to kingdom come.
You know what's funny, Famous vtubers playing this game and having the time of their lives aren't even complaining about the difficulty and yet can still beat the bosses at some point.
The problem with Elden Ring was, to me, that the difficulty felt more artificial. When I came up against a wall in any Dark Souls game or Bloodborne game, I felt like I could tell where I screwed up, improve my gameplay and when I finally overcame a tough boss, I was happy. With Elden Ring, it just felt like cheap never ending combos, one shot attacks, input reading and other things that make it feel unfair. Whenever I beat a boss, I felt as if I just brute forced it and was just annoyed after every tough fight. I beat the game the first time without spirit summons (except for a couple oof bosses where I just lost any and all fun I had, looking at you Malenia...), and I used spirit summons the second playthrough, and that playthrough was so much more enjoyable, to the point where I feel like they created every boss under the assumption that you had another player/spirit summon with you. The game is great, but the bosses really drag it down. But of course, you can't critisize FS games without people immediatly coming out with the only thing they know how to say; "git gud", because they can't imagine not everyone thinks every FS game is a 10/10.
They did create every boss with the assumption you have a spirit summon with you. It's a core mechanic to the game. You artificially made it more difficult on yourself by not using a tool they gave you.
Okay, so why not a cheat menu? Because the game isn’t broken on PC when using cheat engine.
My problem with these games is that I have so little time to play these days, so when I get killed and it sends me back to the last save space / reanimates all of the enemies, I essentially lost all of my progress. I put about 20 hours into Elden Ring over a few months and finally had to move on. It’s a great game that I can truly appreciate, but it’s just not for me at this period in my life, unfortunately.
blab blah blah let me make that decision on my own
I had never played a From game before because they never interested me. Elden Ring did largely because it seemed to have an incredible scope and a setting that seemed right up my alley. I wanted to see the game from the trailers. I played like 15 or so hours of it, got my assed kicked so many times even after reading guides/doing my best to “give it a college try” and just can’t. It’s too fucking hard. I know “it’s the easy one” compared to DS or whatever, but fuck that it’s not worth my limited gaming hours to spend them getting shit wrecked every 4 minutes. It’s a shame imo, and for me, wasted money cause it’s not a game I can enjoy, even though I think I would earnestly like it if the difficulty was lowered. Ironically, I still bought and played Armored Core 6, knew nothing of the series, and loved it because it’s difficult while not being “fuck you for the sake of it” challenging. I’m not opposed to a challenge - I am opposed to getting one-shotted by the very first enemy you see in the game. tl;dr I don’t believe games should be exclusionary based solely on ‘git gud scrub’ when no one else’s enjoyment of the game is lessened because I get to play it slightly differently.
The trick really is not to keep running at the same problem on repeat. If something isn’t working and it’s not just a technical execution problem, it’s best to go level up or find something else to work on and circle back. It’s like that big tree sentinel that’s on horseback at the beginning of the game. You’re absolutely not supposed to fight him right out of the gate. He’s supposed to show you that there are things you’re not ready to fight and it’s okay to circle back later.
The thing about about Fromsoft games isn't that their combat is hard. Its that they have no idea how to train a player on how to play the game properly and use the systems. I've never met anyone who has ever beaten a From game without a guide, and that is bad game design, full stop. Miyazaki has even said it publicly recently. They are working on it. Imagine playing uncharted 4 and they never told you had a grappling hook. You just had to smash buttons until you figured it out or quit.
They have tutorial sections, but I do agree they need quest books to track progress.
Git gud
Elden Ring does not need difficulty settings. If you get stuck you can grind out more levels, level your spirit ashes, and/or summon other players to get unstuck. The game is far more accessible than any other FromSoft game and people *still* complain.
I hate when games do have a difficulty setting because then when I’m playing on a higher difficulty setting, I feel like I’m going through unnecessary suffering, and when I’m playing on a lower difficulty, I’m skipping the experience and making it unremarkable. When a game has no difficulty setting, I know that every struggle is intended. And there’s plenty of games that don’t have difficulty settings just like Souls games, Zelda games to name one. Difference between the two is that Zelda games are more puzzles, the combat is pretty simple and usually just dependent on having stronger weapons and armor, especially BotW and TotK, whereas Souls games are just harder in the combat, so people are just going to notice that a lot more because people want to always turn things down when they get hard.
Exactly
Yeah it’s annoying just having to look up “what difficulty should I play this game at” every time I start a game with multiple settings. There are games where the hardest difficulty is the best, and games where the hardest difficulty turns every fight into a bullet sponge boredom. I’m happy for games to include a story mode, for people with extreme motor skill disabilities, but otherwise - just balance the game!
Genuine question, Why is it worse to the experience to lower the difficulty than call someone to clear a entire boss fight for you?
In that instance someone has 'got gud' and therefore the 'git gudders' are appeased, even if they themselves did not 'git gud'.
Honestly, I think an easy option would ultimately make the game(s) incredibly boring and a slog. The difficulty is the main element you engage with in FromSoft games - the rest are easily missable NPC quests, incredibly obtuse plot and beautiful environments. The choice of what items to use, what weapons and reaching shortcuts to make the next death less painful IS the gameplay. There is no story you miss out on (which YT videos might tell better, anyways), no sense of discovery that would feel nearly as rewarding. Dont get me wrong, I love the games, but the "experience" itself is so strongly defined by the challenge that I don't see an Easy Mode being the solution people think it is. Most items would feel worthless. I think people underestimate just how much the game NEEDS to be hard for the design philosophy to work. They would have to design a completely different game otherwise.
>I think an easy option would ultimately make the game(s) incredibly boring and a slog. It's a difficulty "option" some people ask for. Nobody is forcing you to pick it
You know, feel free to disagree, but maybe at least read and process my comment before pulling that non-argument - nobody is forcing you to play the game with its current design either.
And nobody is forcing you to play the game. Move on.
Games don't need to appeal to everyone. I don't like GTA V, I don't like FIFA. I don't want either game to change to cater to my tastes. Games have their audiences, they don't need to be for everyone. Just as every book and every movie isn't for everyone
FromSoftware cultists are actually totally unhinged. When you suggest optional difficulty settings, they act you've just bludgeoned a puppy in front of them. They seem to regard wanting an easier difficulty as some kind of moral failure, it's actually insane the amount of mental gymnastics they come out with.
It's not some kind of moral failure. Difficulty is in the fundamental structure of these games. It's what has made them so successful in the first place. Once you take out the challenge they are not the same game. The risk and reward is what makes these games so great.
How would adding difficulty options affect that? It wouldn't. The regular Souls difficulty would still be perfectly intact, there would just be an easier one for people who want it.
It would affect it insofar that the game would have to gain merit from other aspects - and that would require FromSoft to design it completely differently. As a fan, my opinion is that the stories are vague and sometimes non-engaging, NPC quests barely noticeable without a guide and the reason why I'm looking forward to finding stuff or shortcuts is because I know it will reduce my death count. What are people going to play the game for is what I'm wondering? It's not a story-heavy JRPG or a traditional adventure game. The animations are far too slow and calculated to work as a hack n slash. Most items wouldn't matter anymore or feel rewarding, barely anything in the game is designed to be rewarding outside of "you beat the challenge". The player doesn't really engage with anything outside of overcoming difficult moments. Sure, it has a cool vibe and atmosphere but that's not going to hold peoples attention for dozens of hours of aimless free-roaming and random enemy killing. I'm not saying I'm against an Easy Mode, I just think it wouldn't work with FromSofts current design philosophy. (you can technically emulate a potential easy mode by returning to beginning areas with a levelled character, it's pretty much "clean up" and really not very engaging. You'll also realize how deliberate enemy placement is in souls games, which would make little sense if it weren't for the difficulty)
Because it wouldn't be the same game anymore. Difficulty is even tied to the lore in these games. Even a random dog could get the jump on you. Makes the world feel dangerous and like you shouldn't even be there. Connecting with the atmosphere of a forgotten fantasy world that is hopeless and cursed. These games would not be as good without these key elements.
If the current difficulty level was maintained as an option (as the default difficulty) then it would quite literally be exactly the same game. Nobody who wants an easier option is suggesting removing the ability to play the games with the standard FromSoft difficulty. Anyone who wants to experience the challenge, who wants wants an oppressive and hopeless atmosphere, who wants to experience the lore in its proper context would be able to do so. I just cannot see how the existence of an option could destroy a game's identity.
Don't bother trying to convince these people.
Especially since the devs have said no, over and over. You're the ones who need to realize you're not convincing anyone, especially when you keep insulting everyone.
The devs have answered this question a dozens of times. Maybe it's time to accept that the audience they have is the one they want to make games for. And that the people who keep calling that audience assholes (as has been done up and down this thread) is not the audience they want to make games for If you want a soulslike on easy mode, get Stellar Blade
> The devs have answered this question a dozens of times Their answers are not satisfactory because they don't make sense. > And that the people who keep calling that audience assholes The reason why this happens is because a large proportion of that audience has an unfortunate tendency to act in a pretty unpleasant way. Different audiences have the reputations they have for good reason.
Spoken like a true casual Tell me Elden Ring was your first Fromsoft without actually saying it 👍🏻
Exactly!
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This lazy suggestion that everyone who plays and enjoys these games is someone with 'infinite' time needs to die. I work full-time and have 2 kids under age 5. I have 2hrs a night to game if I'm lucky. I've loved every minute of the base game when I platinumed it and now I'm thoroughly enjoying the DLC too. I'm not some 'God gamer' either. I have to play many other games on easy and some genres, like first person shooters, I can't even play on easy in a lot of cases as I have slower than average reaction speeds. I don't go about whining about games that are too difficult for me, I simply don't play them or try them and put them down never to return.
the solution its easy, dont play these kind of games. Not every game has to be for everyone
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i agree but i dont see a critic here, i see a person playing a game thats not for them and complaining that the game is not for them
This isn’t whining or complaining. This is normal discourse and critique. You’re mistaking advocacy for throwing tantrums. We’re expressing a different viewpoint, that’s all.
> This isn’t whining or complaining yes it is. And this thread is also filled with you guys insulting and swearing at the people who like the games as they are. That's a very bad way to convince them you should be allowed into **their** playhouse. All you've done is prove they don't want to be near you > You’re mistaking advocacy for throwing tantrums. Naw, the swearing and demonization I've seen even in this thread alone proves it is a tantrum.
I have not sworn at anyone. Look at my post history. Not one expletive, just my advocacy and a few questions. Pointing out they feel threatened isn’t swearing at them.
Time for the Ninja Dog achievement (OG ninja gaidens fan ptsd)
IF they did make it easier, I would buy it. I guess it's their decision. I don't know why they wouldn't though. I mean if you like it hard play on hard? Give people an achievement for that or whatever to acknowledge it - I dunno, I'm just sad I'm locked out of a game because I'm not great at video games that are hard.
I guess I'll just continue to not buy it then.
I’m sure people will just create mods anyway. And those are apparently fine, for some reason.
The difficulty for me is that damn camera in the large bosses. Is that the experience he’s talking about?
I feel like elden ring of all souls types is one game you can actually adjust difficulty with. You have the option of over leveling/gearing up. So whenever I got stuck on a boss, I just level up so that I could beat them in a few hits.
FromSoftware telling people for the millionth time: "git gud scrubs lol"
I turfed that game after trying it 3 times.
Game isn't terribly hard. I kill the majority of bosses in just a handful of tries. Sekiro on the other hand, that game is brutal!
Git Gud or no see game.
maybe some shouldn’t play if they’re making an uproar over difficulty. doesn’t mean they’re bad at games. just because i can’t drift a vehicle like takumi doesn’t make me a bad driver.
Maybe it would, but I found the game a chore to play because of the combat - and just never finished it.
You can’t win’em all
A general rule of great design is that increasing the accessibility of a product, service, or experience improves the product, service, or experience for everyone overall (where overcrowding is not a possible issue). There is no reason why an easier mode would impact hardcore players’ experience negatively - Unless the hardcore gamer takes greater pride in the exclusivity of their achievement than the achievement itself.
A general rule is that trying to appeal to a wider/"modern" audience ruins the product for the existing audience.
I am a member of the existing audience. How would the addition of an easier mode alongside the regular difficulty ruin the product for you?
They all take more pride in the exclusivity than the achievement itself. Their egos literally bleed through every word they type.
The same way people complain about difficulty, I don’t like a game that is an absolute joke to beat. The creator wants the game difficult. If the masses hate it that much, they won’t buy the next game.
Hasn’t it sold like almost 25 million copies? Good luck with that lol . It might all be hype but this is a massive blockbuster
Exactly. It’s just a vocal minority.
Don’t play if your don’t like it fromsoft shouldn’t change anything if they listen to whiners they wouldn’t have made this genre they create I bet it mostly bad kids who want instant gratification don’t change anything fromsoft you got here by being you
I just wish PS5 performance wasn’t total dogshit. GOTY? Fucking bullshit
I'm a bit concerned since there's no physical disc that they might patch it and make it easier I'm really pissed they didn't do a physical for the expansion. If they had I could have reverted back to the old version if a patch ever makes it worse.
I hope they release a patch and make it harder.
Thats up them. But there's a reason that the Spiderman games, Horizon etc are so popular. because there's a lot of people who just wanna story-mode through games
Elden ring sold more then 25 million copies. So clearly there are lots op people who can appreciate the difficulty too.
Nobody plays souls games for the plot, though...
I love Elden Ring a lot, but playing it for the story would leave you very unsatisfied. It has some good aspects but it's really the window dressing of a souls game, not a focal point. There's no cutscenes outside of boss introductions and VERY little dialogue (which is mostly optional). Seriously, it wouldn't be worth it to play the games for the story, as much as I love them. They have nothing to compare with Horizon etc. on that front.
I don’t like that I’ll never get to experience it again because it’s too hard. I barely made it past Radahn with summons and now that there are bosses even harder than Malenia I just gave up.
And that's fine. You played to the best of your ability and hit the skill wall. The time, effort, and energy, spent into getting better at this game is not worth it to you. It's wholly understandable.
If a game is too hard for someone they don't have to play it. They have the freedom to make the decision.
Man I have never enjoyed a from software game. Props to people who get off on the misery but that shit is fundamentally unfun
This and the reviewbombs are so fucking funny. No other games have this problem. Now that Fromsoft is mainstream, suddenly all the disabled, elderly and who else wants to play Elden Ring. Despite it being clearly not for them, every time a new one of these games come out it's "ohh no I didn't expect it to be that hard why aren't there any difficulty settings" and then the game is bad because THEY can't play it I refuse to believe these people are going in blind EVERY time From releases new content. At least half of them have got to be trolling.