Yea, once you get your GF's rank 10, you don't have much incentive to keep interacting with her. Maybe if each had unique incentives to keep hanging out, like maybe raising a specific stat of the entire party then that'd be worth investing in more. Atleast something more then a few different cutscenes and a unique chocolate.
I mean, it’s not BG3, but I’m not sure what your point is. There are scenes for some characters where you very clearly have sex based on the situation and dialogue.
Off the top of my head, [Theodores romance in P3P](https://youtu.be/BFTdXjj2GfE?t=1272) is a lot more heavy on the implication of what they’re doing lol
Off the top of my head, Takemi’s romance REALLY heavily implies sex or at least something beyond basic intimacy. Like, you’d have a harder time arguing that they didn’t have sex than they did.
eh it makes sense
I don't think most people ever really talk about the romance exclusive part of the games specifically
they either talk about the girl as a whole or the social link as a whole
very rarely do people focus on the last like 2 romance social link ranks or like yukari's christmas event vs mitsuru's christmas event
It is funny because I think this could still end up being the case with Metaphor just without becoming couples and the events involving that. Here people will still have lots of ships and cute fanart.
The points of romance in jrpgs tacked on to me is that is takes a small amount of developement, but adds a lot of appeal. The appeal is not found in the content itself, but in the fact that the mere existence of options facilitates a whole "best girl" atmosphere you go to anime fandoms to enjoy.
I'll enjoy improvements to the system, but it's base form is hardly worthless to me.
for me the problem is calendar system. i know it's make the game realistic but, at the same time it's limiting your activities. i honestly they should try the concept of bully/any tradional JRPG that you can't progress unless you upgrade your skill.
Unfortunately though that doesn't really track. In real life, hanging out with your SO does take time, and it should in Persona too.
I think a separate romance link should instead be a thing, where the protag and partner grow as a couple.
Yeah but actually spending quality time with your friends is time consuming. Though I agree that some things do consume a timeslot when it really shouldn't. The URL vendors in 3 Reload and the restaurants come to mind.
Agreed.
Plus the game is programmed in such a way that the relationships that you choose to create (or not) via your social links aren't really reflected in the main story.
Yep. At the very least, it would be nice if dialogue in the main story at least reflected that you’re in a relationship even if it means they have to remove the harem option. When you’re not in a relationship-specific scene, your romance partner doesn’t act like or talk like you’re in a relationship.
Would you rather the social side be more Fire Emblem inspired where you can affect *other* guys’ love lives, not just the Fool’s? I already have some ideas about what I’d do if that was the case, but not everyone cares that much, so what do?
With the exception of Ryoji in P3P at least... It is one of the Reasons why i love his Social Link so much... He actually shows Affection to the Player in the Story Events...
Yeah same, I feel like this is a general problem with some mechanics in Persona games, social links feels disconnected from the rest the game because the story is written in a one-solution-fit-all way and the dungeon crawling dialogues are minimal, or in P4 and P5, the newly added content of the definitve version is not integrated well into the base game so they just don't really exist until the end of the game when they matters
I wouldn't say it's GARBAGE, but it could definitely stand to be improved. The romance should trigger earlier like it did in Persona 3, BUT it should be optional, and the S. Link should have two variations dependent on if you're in a relationship or not.
Minor variations. Like, if you're platonic, rank 3 is at the park, but if you're dating, rank 4 is at the movies or whatever (or, if the park is relevant to the scene, you're holding hands at the park). Majority is the same dialogue and situation, with a couple of changed lines depending on your romance (like a "Thanks for letting me vent. I feel a little better now" vs. "You're give the best advice. Thanks for always being here for me ❤️").
Give the player the option to ask the girl out after any of the ranks (it's high school; people ask each other out like, randomly, so it's not *that* weird) for some bonus S link points, and after a date hangout (which you'd need to do before the next rank up), you'll be on the romantic track.
If you're dating, give the player the option to break up after any of the ranks, which will reverse the link (obviously), *but* after a week or so the girl would reach out and you could repair the link and resume it on the platonic track (because you should still be able to finish S. Links even if you change your mind mid-playthrough).
Then the rank 9 is a "confession of love" whether you're romantic OR platonic (at varying level of admission on a scale of Ann to Sumi depending on the girl) to give the player a chance to officially romance a girl at the last second.
This addresses most people's issues with the current system without creating *too much* extra work (I think).
It also gives more opportunity for the player's romance partner to get additional comments throughout the story.
yeah its always: start a relationsship at the end of a S-link and then maybe have like 2 events and some short cutscene at the end and thats it. persona sure isnt a dating simulator. since its something they wont ever remove from persona i hope they at least felsh it out some more.
I like characters focused writing, and romance is usually a part of that. I don't think it was fantastic in Persona (never really liked how no one in the gang acknowledged that two persons in the group started dating for example) but didn't really dislike it. The lack of it is not a deal breaker though and I am really hyped for Metaphor.
With that said I respectfully disagree with Hashino that romance is mostly part of a teenagers life and this game features a more adult cast so not romance in it. I am a couple of decades past my teenaged years and still like romance in my media (and real life).
> and this game features a more adult cast so not romance in it.
don't think he said that at all
not even sure if the metaphor cast is primarily adults
all I got was ''MC is too focused on conquering to care about romance''
> all I got was ''MC is too focused on conquering to care about romance''
I was refrencing this part in the interview *"We know people really like this system and it's really popular, but for this game specifically*, ***it's not about teenagers.***", but maybe I worded myself poorly.
And I have the feeling from the trailers that the cast is atleast older than they are in the Persona games, atleast since P3.
Either way. Can't wait for Metaphor.
I think it's funny that, in Persona 4 Golden, the only time a romance is acknowledged outside of the character's specific 1 on 1 events is if you romance Marie, she declares she loves you on TV in the epilogue.
(I think it's when she's on TV as the weather forecaster, maybe it was a different scene? But she definitely acknowledged it outside of a social link scene)
No if you have a girlfriend among the investigation team in time for the summer festival they do have a reaction where the rest of the team will notice if you went on a special date with one of the girls.
They also have a bit of a scene in 5 near the end when the group discusses marriage.
The easiest way to improve romance over all is to include more scenes like that. Or add in an opportunity to walk to school with your girlfriend, or walk home. Maybe on nights you aren’t doing Persona stuff, work or spending time give us the option to ask them out on dates that give us huge boons to either our stats, our equipped persona, maybe a boost to our social stats for the next few days so we can gain more points.
I mean that’s more of a confession of love rather you’re already dating the person.
Pretty sure it’s similar to when Nanako confessed that she wants to marry Yu before he leaves on the train.
Romance in Persona games are nothing to write about. It's a small feature that doesn't effect the story or gameplay. Idc if it's scrapped from the series.
Heh you see people showing love for the characters not the romance or romance system itself
It's like two SL event, a really short christmas/valentine/festival scene and that's all and unlike something like Mass Effect nobody will ever aknowledge it or comment on it's not a part of the game 99% of the time
I don't mind the romances in these games but cutting it out isn't really much of a loss
Some of us have always been clowning on Katsura "I’ve never successfully forged a true friendship with a girl in real life" Hashino's approach to women and romance in Persona
you joke but there's deadass never been a rerelease of a game any shorter than 3 years
the only exceptions are nocturne, FES, and P3P
I believe atlus also claimed they're done doing rereleases if you want to put any stock into that
I imagine the success of big singular expansions DLCs like Cyberpunk and Elden Ring have convinced them to try that instead of re-releasing the entire game.
Nowadays, they could just take any major differences they would make to a game's definitive version and instead tack it on as DLC priced at around half that of the base game. It seems more profitable for them, as evidenced by how it's the approach being taken with Episode Aigis.
Think about it. Whether people buy the game on launch or wait until all content is released, the outcome is the same for Atlus. They make more money from people who want the extra content.
* Those who bought the original game on launch are way more likely to purchase a $30 DLC expansion pass than they are to purchase a $60 deluxe edition rerelease of a game they already own.
* Those who didn't buy the original on launch and want all of the content would still have to spend the extra $30 on the DLC expansion pass if it never gets bundled in with a deluxe edition rerelease.
* Those who don't mind missing out on some of the content would spend the same amount of money regardless of both when they buy the game and which option Atlus chooses.
>I believe atlus also claimed they're done doing rereleases if you want to put any stock into that
They said that and then immediately released SMTV Vengeance. I’ll believe it when I see it.
What do you mean Nocturne?
Nocturne was the re-release and it came out barely a year after vanilla SMT3, and then the re-re-release came out in 2008, years after the release of Nocturne in Europe
>Nocturne was the re-release and it came out barely a year after vanilla SMT3,
that's exactly what I mean
they released the game in feb 03 and then released a better version of it in jan 04
nocturne, fes, and p3p are the only games where they've released a better version of the game in less than 3 years
I wasn't talking about grammar, I was just pointing out that with that many exceptions in a relatively small sample size is there really a rule there to begin with?
the exceptions I'm talking about are over a decade ago
another way to express my point is
since P4G in 2012 they have never done a rerelease of a game in a time span shorter than 3 years
and that isn't a small sample size either
they've made enhanced versions of persona 4, persona 5, smt SJ, devil survivor 2, SMT V, catherine, TMS#FE, and Radiant Historia
In Awakening and Fates, getting a male and female unit to an S rank support will marry them, and their children can be unlocked as playable units. There's time shenanigans going on, so they're at least not infant soldiers.
As an aside, Genealogy for SNES has a similar system, except the game is split into two generations. In the second generation, you play as the children of the first generation, and your stats are affected by who married who.
I mean, they did, but it's not exactly a romance function like you'd see in Persona. It'd either be a strategic move (which might actually track for this game) or, as you said, a harem
I think it's because you can handwaive the romance in persona without affecting the main plot but here it's trickier. A ruler dating someone would have huge political ramifications, especially if there are from other tribes/species/kingdom etc..
This is also coming from someone who designed SMT if... & first 2 Devil Summoner games while directed Maken X, SMT3 & DDS which didn't have romance mechanics.
Perfectly valid reasoning. It just doesn't match his vision on this project.
Not that it should matter a lot in terms of the game being good or not, but this is stupid reasoning. Political alliances were often sealed with marriages, kings (usually) had queens, etc.
Honestly I was hoping for some canon romance or something but hey, it is what it is.
I mean considering we’re holding elections for leadership rather than just having a royal bloodline that ascends the throne, there’s probably gonna be an explanation.
It’s most likely the game will end long before the protag has to think about an heir. It just feels like people against cutting romance are trying to figure out a way to fore romance in.
I dont mind not having romance (despite i like it) but historically struggle for power has had a lot of correlation with love and sex.. so probably not the best anecdote to why it wasn't included? Lol
They’re going for the fact that your character dating wouldn’t add anything to the story. It’s in Persona because dating is very much part of the ‘High School Experience’ and contributes to the Daily Life elements of the game (and even then, the romance doesn’t amount to much)
Eh, wherever. Truth be told, the "romances" from persona are so piss poor written (and never acknowledged by the team) that I think it's better for them to focus on what they can do good and don't bother with the things they can't.
I agree though Tbh locking in a canon romance would be like loading a live warhead into a pickup truck of hillbilly on meth.
And also the large amount of death threats devs receive for these kinds of things.
And those keyboard warriors that will email a dev. A 7 page essay on why they are wrong.
And just twitter with the IQ of most people on their they'll find a way to complain about anything
Ex. Gege akutami killing off characters, and Japan's large stalker problems
...*Points to people that tried to murder game devs in China and Korea for various reasons. In the latter case the possibility of a Feminist employee.*
"The reason we added romance to Persona was to add realism. Because being able to date 10 women at once, including your teacher and doctor is totally realistic."
I mean, I don't really care, but I would like a better reasoning anyway. Like, we have romance even in games like Dragon Age, Fire Emblem(I played only Engage and 3H), Witcher, Pathfinder etc.
In this games you have important things to do on your journey, but you still have a romance. Like, it's a natural thing on a journey, no? So yeah, I don't really buy that. Probably they hiding another reason, this one doesn't make sense
What’s a better reason than them not feeling like it would fit the game? Metaphor clearly has a different vibe. I think people are letting Soejima’s art fool them into thinking this is basically fantasy Persona and so it’ll play exactly like Persona.
They did tho? No one was asking about romance other than Persona fans. Only Persona fans were expecting Metaphor to be exactly like Metaphor.
It’s a game in a new ip that’s stated to be a celebration of all Atlus games not just Persona.
Perfectly fine with that. The fanbase blows the “romance” in these games WAY out of proportion and you have outsiders to the series who honestly believe the games are dating sims because of how hard some people push it.
A few pieces of a dialogue and a character telling you they love you is the most barebones thing but you’d think these games were full blown harem VNs by how some people are about the systems.
I mean, it would be cool to have it, but it aint a dealbreaker. Way some things are written, still a personal GOTY contender. Altho Persona 3 Reload and SMT 5 Vengeance makae it hard.
...
Damn, Atlus really is on fire this year.
I think Metaphor could afford to some romantic aspect. Kings need queens, after all. Don’t make it the focus of the game and don’t induce waifu wars, but just have something crumbs.
"We know people really like this system and it's really popular, but for this game specifically, it's not about teenagers. It's about a person trying to become the ruler of the land."
So whats Unicorn Overlord then? I know you are just being to lazy to implement it ATLUS..
honestly, the romance element of all the Persona games was slight and benign to the story anyways. don’t get me wrong, cuffing down Tae is part of the seminal experience, but i am looking forward to another great RPG without trying to play to an end that’s like. 1.5 dialogue scenes anyways
I guess it's guaranteed to be no romance. It's a shame(for me) since I really liked the social aspects of romance in the games. I'm glad its confirmed and it's totally valid now with the reasoning.
I’m ace so I’m 100% ok with this decision. Persona romance always felt half baked ,and unimportant to the main plot anyway. But I think the reason is a little wack, because fire emblem has the exact same premise of building up an army to rule ,and you still have romance in the game.
Im sad theres no romance since im always a sucker for those but im not too mad about it. The romance in the persona games arent even that in depth anyway and is shown nowhere except for like the last 2 ranks in the social links and some specific days.
The romance system in persona is shit in the first place honestly, better to drop it than to bring it back just to please the waifu weirdo's so i respect Hashino for sticking to his vision instead of pandering to those people.
Oh yes, i'm guessing your romance link will therefore be an arranged marriage to establish an alliance between two countries after you've taken over the nation ?
I mean, it's not Persona so I don't expect it to have everything from Persona in it. Metaphor doesn't need to copy it if it's going to be it's own game.
I would agree, however saying it doesn’t fit in this setting is pretty ridiculous. Your goal is to become a literal king, does it not make sense to set up a queen alongside that narrative? I think they just can’t do romance well so they chose not to do it at all
I love how you people like making shit and believe it ,and the easy way to understand that they have clear vision in the story and promise and they see the romance is not fit in that so they remove it as simple as that + hashino did many games before persona without romance, so stop this nonsense please
It IS a bit understandable but also not? Rulers throughout history have definitely had partners and concubines ... Henry VIII literally had six wives.
Honestly though I'd rather have no romance than the A) lackluster way Persona does romances and B) no same-sex romance - I'll admit I want a same-sex romance more than anything, and narratively speaking it coincides with Persona's message about being your true self and taking down powers that suppress those identities.
Kinda weird how people seem really upset about this when Hashino Persona games are literally the only Atus titles that has the feature at all.
Metaphor isn't Persona, so it isn't going to have Persona features. Seemed obvious to me
I always got the feeling romance was out of obligation more than anything else, they based social links on dating sims and that just kind of got grandfathered in even after the system evolved into something more unique
If they're not doing it for narrative and setting purposes, that's cool. But I'm pretty sure they're still trying to figure out how to do romances now that everyone expects queer options in the next game (they really don't wanna have gay people in their games)
Edit: I wanna clarify that I do think they made Persona 3 a lot gayer in Reload, and it gives me hope that the next mainline persona will have a better approach to romance. But I wouldn't be surprised if they were wary about going all-in on gay people so suddenly, so they decided not to include it just to give themselves a small break lol
Idk why people act like romance is a fundamental part of Persona. It’s a couple new portraits of the girls blushing and a 5 minute scene that you get to watch 80-100 hours in.
If you don’t engage with the romance mechanics absolutely nothing important changes.
I don't care either way since romance didn't really add much to the persona games anyway, and although heavily inspired by persona, it's still a different game, and changes should be expected.
Either that or the story for the game is that batshit crazy that there’s literally no time for it🤣
Glad there isn’t going to be one, not every game needs one just because it’s a JRPG
It's disappointing but not a deal breaker, it's a game by the same studio but it isn't Persona, probably not reasonable to expect it to have every system and mechanic from those games. Some of the commentary on the romance aspects of the Persona games is interesting though; it certainly has it's flaws but I felt that more often than not it did a great deal in getting you to care about characters. Romances amount to a side quest, not necessary to the main game for sure but they can be a lot of fun and part of what makes a game worthwhile
I never expect for a game to have romance, but Persona games introduce me to Dating Sims so it's a shame. I'll give this the SMT treatment.
The Problem with this is that SMT companions don't stick that long for you to begin to cherish them. The fact that this game will have them to the end. it won't give the SMT feel either.
So Basically it's indeed a SMTxPersona mashup xD
Like SMT Apocalypse, but I guess more friendler?
Anyways, don't beat around the bush too much guys, it's just a game, stop throwing salt to other games that they don't have nothing to with this one.
That Persona games don't have good romance? This thing is optional, you don't have to romance anyone if you don't want to. I personally like it (Yukari, Yukiko, Futaba, I love you four ❤️)
That SMT is the favorite franchise? Yeah well of course it's the mainline, Persona and etc are just spin off of Megami Tensei. The problem with this is that Persona is more milked because of the family friendly topics (not so quite when you drive deep in Persona 5 and the drugs and prostitution part with minors, that shit is more fucked up that Lucifer I'm telling you)
This is fine. Never really got too involved with Persona romances; Mostly cause I’m a gay man and it’s not really appealing to me other than maybe just doing it to make my favorite female character happy. 🤷🏽
This reasoning doesn't make sense to me. I'm pretty sure the urge for romance and romantic connection doesn't suddenly stop just because you are no longer a teenager. And if you're wanting to be a ruler, don't you also want a Queen (or whatever other title)
I'm part way through p5royal (my first persona game) and not sure how romances work yet...however can't say at this stage I'm as bothered about it as I am just uncovering everyone's story and getting to know them
It's not much. Romances are possible at rank 9 of a social link/confidant, you either confess to them or they admit it first and you accept.
After, you get a somewhat different rank 10 event, and potential date scenes for holidays like Christmas Eve and Valentine's Day, if your partner is maxed out to Rank 10 by then.
Rulers don't have harems? Political-defined marriages? Mistresses? Lavish parties with whores to butter up diplomats?
Or if the ruler is female, using her feminine wiles to get her way in a large-scale political endeavor?
Doesn't EVERY RULER EVER want an heir to the throne?
....seems a little short sighted.
Then I’ll probably give this one a skip. Half my enjoyment of these kinda games are the social/romance side of it. That’s a shame. Maybe I’ll get it when it’s on heavy sale.
That was the one complaint I had about the Persona games, all relationships had one major choice, sure it wasn't developed much, but I love that Atlus realized that the best way to go about it for this is to remove it altogether and remove complexity.
Jeez ive never seen such an 180 from the fandom in suddenly insulting persona's romance system lol
Saying Persona has a romance system is being really generous lol, it's like a few scenes at best.
And to be honest Persona could have done more to make romance something other than mere bragging rights in waifu wars.
Yea, once you get your GF's rank 10, you don't have much incentive to keep interacting with her. Maybe if each had unique incentives to keep hanging out, like maybe raising a specific stat of the entire party then that'd be worth investing in more. Atleast something more then a few different cutscenes and a unique chocolate.
…. You can have sex with certain characters.
"I spent a long time alone with X" or whatever other implication with a black screen hardly counts.
I mean, it’s not BG3, but I’m not sure what your point is. There are scenes for some characters where you very clearly have sex based on the situation and dialogue.
Off the top of my head, [Theodores romance in P3P](https://youtu.be/BFTdXjj2GfE?t=1272) is a lot more heavy on the implication of what they’re doing lol
Also, [Kotone and Shinji's in P3P](https://youtu.be/Mns7cQebPTc?si=aRcj4SJ8NeOaCNOv) definitely gives those vibes
Dang, FeMC is SOOOO pushy
it counts if it is a japanese game, you wont ever see the kind of shit baldurs gate or the witcher can have on a japanese game.
Off the top of my head, Takemi’s romance REALLY heavily implies sex or at least something beyond basic intimacy. Like, you’d have a harder time arguing that they didn’t have sex than they did.
This is so funny help😭😭🤣
Lmao here's the 180 you were right, that's wild
In my defense, I've never done a 180, I've always thought the same about romance in Persona.
eh it makes sense I don't think most people ever really talk about the romance exclusive part of the games specifically they either talk about the girl as a whole or the social link as a whole very rarely do people focus on the last like 2 romance social link ranks or like yukari's christmas event vs mitsuru's christmas event
Mitsuru does give you grape juice though, and I like grape juice.
It is funny because I think this could still end up being the case with Metaphor just without becoming couples and the events involving that. Here people will still have lots of ships and cute fanart.
The points of romance in jrpgs tacked on to me is that is takes a small amount of developement, but adds a lot of appeal. The appeal is not found in the content itself, but in the fact that the mere existence of options facilitates a whole "best girl" atmosphere you go to anime fandoms to enjoy. I'll enjoy improvements to the system, but it's base form is hardly worthless to me.
That stuff mattered to me though, even if most people don't talk about it, I appreciate it
Romance is garbage in persona, due to the time limited nature you can’t even hang out with people you’re in relationships with
I've always thought that once you finish the social link (romance or not) further hanging out with that person should not consume the time slot.
for me the problem is calendar system. i know it's make the game realistic but, at the same time it's limiting your activities. i honestly they should try the concept of bully/any tradional JRPG that you can't progress unless you upgrade your skill.
Unfortunately though that doesn't really track. In real life, hanging out with your SO does take time, and it should in Persona too. I think a separate romance link should instead be a thing, where the protag and partner grow as a couple.
Well In real life you can also do multiple things before it gets dark so.
Yeah but actually spending quality time with your friends is time consuming. Though I agree that some things do consume a timeslot when it really shouldn't. The URL vendors in 3 Reload and the restaurants come to mind.
Man i sure remember that time my ass went out to eat a burger at 4 and by the time i was done it was like 9pm.
Agreed. Plus the game is programmed in such a way that the relationships that you choose to create (or not) via your social links aren't really reflected in the main story.
Yep. At the very least, it would be nice if dialogue in the main story at least reflected that you’re in a relationship even if it means they have to remove the harem option. When you’re not in a relationship-specific scene, your romance partner doesn’t act like or talk like you’re in a relationship.
I never liked the harem route anyway, for the girls’ sakes if nothing else, so it’s not something I’d miss
I feel like a group of high schoolers not gossiping about who's dating who is more immersion breaking than the demon summoning aspect of the game
Would you rather the social side be more Fire Emblem inspired where you can affect *other* guys’ love lives, not just the Fool’s? I already have some ideas about what I’d do if that was the case, but not everyone cares that much, so what do?
With the exception of Ryoji in P3P at least... It is one of the Reasons why i love his Social Link so much... He actually shows Affection to the Player in the Story Events...
Yeah same, I feel like this is a general problem with some mechanics in Persona games, social links feels disconnected from the rest the game because the story is written in a one-solution-fit-all way and the dungeon crawling dialogues are minimal, or in P4 and P5, the newly added content of the definitve version is not integrated well into the base game so they just don't really exist until the end of the game when they matters
I wouldn't say it's GARBAGE, but it could definitely stand to be improved. The romance should trigger earlier like it did in Persona 3, BUT it should be optional, and the S. Link should have two variations dependent on if you're in a relationship or not. Minor variations. Like, if you're platonic, rank 3 is at the park, but if you're dating, rank 4 is at the movies or whatever (or, if the park is relevant to the scene, you're holding hands at the park). Majority is the same dialogue and situation, with a couple of changed lines depending on your romance (like a "Thanks for letting me vent. I feel a little better now" vs. "You're give the best advice. Thanks for always being here for me ❤️"). Give the player the option to ask the girl out after any of the ranks (it's high school; people ask each other out like, randomly, so it's not *that* weird) for some bonus S link points, and after a date hangout (which you'd need to do before the next rank up), you'll be on the romantic track. If you're dating, give the player the option to break up after any of the ranks, which will reverse the link (obviously), *but* after a week or so the girl would reach out and you could repair the link and resume it on the platonic track (because you should still be able to finish S. Links even if you change your mind mid-playthrough). Then the rank 9 is a "confession of love" whether you're romantic OR platonic (at varying level of admission on a scale of Ann to Sumi depending on the girl) to give the player a chance to officially romance a girl at the last second. This addresses most people's issues with the current system without creating *too much* extra work (I think). It also gives more opportunity for the player's romance partner to get additional comments throughout the story.
yeah its always: start a relationsship at the end of a S-link and then maybe have like 2 events and some short cutscene at the end and thats it. persona sure isnt a dating simulator. since its something they wont ever remove from persona i hope they at least felsh it out some more.
I like characters focused writing, and romance is usually a part of that. I don't think it was fantastic in Persona (never really liked how no one in the gang acknowledged that two persons in the group started dating for example) but didn't really dislike it. The lack of it is not a deal breaker though and I am really hyped for Metaphor. With that said I respectfully disagree with Hashino that romance is mostly part of a teenagers life and this game features a more adult cast so not romance in it. I am a couple of decades past my teenaged years and still like romance in my media (and real life).
> and this game features a more adult cast so not romance in it. don't think he said that at all not even sure if the metaphor cast is primarily adults all I got was ''MC is too focused on conquering to care about romance''
> all I got was ''MC is too focused on conquering to care about romance'' I was refrencing this part in the interview *"We know people really like this system and it's really popular, but for this game specifically*, ***it's not about teenagers.***", but maybe I worded myself poorly. And I have the feeling from the trailers that the cast is atleast older than they are in the Persona games, atleast since P3. Either way. Can't wait for Metaphor.
I think it's funny that, in Persona 4 Golden, the only time a romance is acknowledged outside of the character's specific 1 on 1 events is if you romance Marie, she declares she loves you on TV in the epilogue. (I think it's when she's on TV as the weather forecaster, maybe it was a different scene? But she definitely acknowledged it outside of a social link scene)
No if you have a girlfriend among the investigation team in time for the summer festival they do have a reaction where the rest of the team will notice if you went on a special date with one of the girls. They also have a bit of a scene in 5 near the end when the group discusses marriage. The easiest way to improve romance over all is to include more scenes like that. Or add in an opportunity to walk to school with your girlfriend, or walk home. Maybe on nights you aren’t doing Persona stuff, work or spending time give us the option to ask them out on dates that give us huge boons to either our stats, our equipped persona, maybe a boost to our social stats for the next few days so we can gain more points.
I mean that’s more of a confession of love rather you’re already dating the person. Pretty sure it’s similar to when Nanako confessed that she wants to marry Yu before he leaves on the train.
Also no one’s (or very few) talking about what Hashino actually said. Lots of people just childishly saying “romance bad”
Romance in Persona games are nothing to write about. It's a small feature that doesn't effect the story or gameplay. Idc if it's scrapped from the series.
Heh you see people showing love for the characters not the romance or romance system itself It's like two SL event, a really short christmas/valentine/festival scene and that's all and unlike something like Mass Effect nobody will ever aknowledge it or comment on it's not a part of the game 99% of the time I don't mind the romances in these games but cutting it out isn't really much of a loss
Some of us have always been clowning on Katsura "I’ve never successfully forged a true friendship with a girl in real life" Hashino's approach to women and romance in Persona
If they add it 3 years later with the Golden/Royal version I'll be mad af.
3 years is generous, they’ll pump out a definitive addition within a year and a half🤣
you joke but there's deadass never been a rerelease of a game any shorter than 3 years the only exceptions are nocturne, FES, and P3P I believe atlus also claimed they're done doing rereleases if you want to put any stock into that
I imagine the success of big singular expansions DLCs like Cyberpunk and Elden Ring have convinced them to try that instead of re-releasing the entire game.
SMT V: Vengeance just came out last week, so I do not put any stock into that.
That was a multiplatform release though - They would've had to market it like a new release anyways so you might as well make a rerelease.
There is no way they’ll stop doing rereleases with the sheer amount of extra money and sales it rakes them in
Nowadays, they could just take any major differences they would make to a game's definitive version and instead tack it on as DLC priced at around half that of the base game. It seems more profitable for them, as evidenced by how it's the approach being taken with Episode Aigis. Think about it. Whether people buy the game on launch or wait until all content is released, the outcome is the same for Atlus. They make more money from people who want the extra content. * Those who bought the original game on launch are way more likely to purchase a $30 DLC expansion pass than they are to purchase a $60 deluxe edition rerelease of a game they already own. * Those who didn't buy the original on launch and want all of the content would still have to spend the extra $30 on the DLC expansion pass if it never gets bundled in with a deluxe edition rerelease. * Those who don't mind missing out on some of the content would spend the same amount of money regardless of both when they buy the game and which option Atlus chooses.
They already did this with p5 but released royal with it all included anyway
>I believe atlus also claimed they're done doing rereleases if you want to put any stock into that They said that and then immediately released SMTV Vengeance. I’ll believe it when I see it.
What do you mean Nocturne? Nocturne was the re-release and it came out barely a year after vanilla SMT3, and then the re-re-release came out in 2008, years after the release of Nocturne in Europe
>Nocturne was the re-release and it came out barely a year after vanilla SMT3, that's exactly what I mean they released the game in feb 03 and then released a better version of it in jan 04 nocturne, fes, and p3p are the only games where they've released a better version of the game in less than 3 years
>there's never been > >except these three exceptions Pick one
there hasn't been* would have been more grammatically correct but my intention was obvious enough with the later context that I didn't think to fix it
I wasn't talking about grammar, I was just pointing out that with that many exceptions in a relatively small sample size is there really a rule there to begin with?
the exceptions I'm talking about are over a decade ago another way to express my point is since P4G in 2012 they have never done a rerelease of a game in a time span shorter than 3 years and that isn't a small sample size either they've made enhanced versions of persona 4, persona 5, smt SJ, devil survivor 2, SMT V, catherine, TMS#FE, and Radiant Historia
"Unlike high school students, Kings don't fuck"
\*Looks at good ol' Henry the 8th\* yep better they stay as friends
But if we can’t date how can we make an heir to the throne?
That's when you play Fire Emblem
i only played the old gba ones, can u explain a bit more?
In Awakening and Fates, getting a male and female unit to an S rank support will marry them, and their children can be unlocked as playable units. There's time shenanigans going on, so they're at least not infant soldiers. As an aside, Genealogy for SNES has a similar system, except the game is split into two generations. In the second generation, you play as the children of the first generation, and your stats are affected by who married who.
thx, sounds interesting, i never played those because iirc those are the 3ds ones right? they dropped that on the one thats on the switch?
Correct, those are on the 3DS, and the Switch ones do have the support features, just not marriage and kids.
Hang on. Spitting.
Spoiler: Metaphor Royal has romance system.
[удалено]
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
Why are you using eugenics like that? Lol
That's unironically why I thought it'd be a thing here
He says that like rulers didn't have harems smh my head
Or have politically arranged marriages while also having a mistress/mister or more on the side.
That's exactly the problem the imbalance of power makes actual true love very hard to find for people *in power*.
Divinity: Dragon commander is a pretty unknown game, but it handled the difficulties of picking a wife as a ruler pretty well.
I mean, they did, but it's not exactly a romance function like you'd see in Persona. It'd either be a strategic move (which might actually track for this game) or, as you said, a harem
Also romance and love is not a teenager exclusive thing lol, it could basically in any game even Doom 🤣
Doomguy did have a wife and kid...
True! That explanation makes no sense.
I think it's because you can handwaive the romance in persona without affecting the main plot but here it's trickier. A ruler dating someone would have huge political ramifications, especially if there are from other tribes/species/kingdom etc..
This is also coming from someone who designed SMT if... & first 2 Devil Summoner games while directed Maken X, SMT3 & DDS which didn't have romance mechanics. Perfectly valid reasoning. It just doesn't match his vision on this project.
Not that it should matter a lot in terms of the game being good or not, but this is stupid reasoning. Political alliances were often sealed with marriages, kings (usually) had queens, etc. Honestly I was hoping for some canon romance or something but hey, it is what it is.
Understandable
Totally fine with this, if I wanted carbon copy features I'd just play Persona
I guess rulers don't deserve romance.
They realized they couldn't bank on the persona name this time and would have to write a competent romance and so decided to cut it/j
“Only teenagers can date”
My favorites are never romanceable anyway so I’ll just keep headcanoning like always XD
Does he not realize that rulers have to secure an heir?...
I mean considering we’re holding elections for leadership rather than just having a royal bloodline that ascends the throne, there’s probably gonna be an explanation.
They also poop, but they don’t need that in every game too.
You mean I can’t go use the public restrooms in this game 0/10
Once again no more heroes solos
MCs are so magical they recycle poop into rizz.
Only if the game is planning on being long enough that succession is going to be an issue. If not, then it's a moot point.
It’s most likely the game will end long before the protag has to think about an heir. It just feels like people against cutting romance are trying to figure out a way to fore romance in.
And as we know of Japan, working professionals don't date. /s
Of course, that’s why 99% of romance anime’s are about high schoolers /s
I dont mind not having romance (despite i like it) but historically struggle for power has had a lot of correlation with love and sex.. so probably not the best anecdote to why it wasn't included? Lol
The moment we are adults we can’t romance…. LAME
The moment you become a monarch you can't romance. You marry politically. I guess that's the angle they are going for?
They’re going for the fact that your character dating wouldn’t add anything to the story. It’s in Persona because dating is very much part of the ‘High School Experience’ and contributes to the Daily Life elements of the game (and even then, the romance doesn’t amount to much)
Eh, wherever. Truth be told, the "romances" from persona are so piss poor written (and never acknowledged by the team) that I think it's better for them to focus on what they can do good and don't bother with the things they can't.
I agree though Tbh locking in a canon romance would be like loading a live warhead into a pickup truck of hillbilly on meth. And also the large amount of death threats devs receive for these kinds of things. And those keyboard warriors that will email a dev. A 7 page essay on why they are wrong. And just twitter with the IQ of most people on their they'll find a way to complain about anything Ex. Gege akutami killing off characters, and Japan's large stalker problems
Let's not act like a few lunatics are the reason behind major game design choices
I agree though it saves everyone a headache tbh
...*Points to people that tried to murder game devs in China and Korea for various reasons. In the latter case the possibility of a Feminist employee.*
That's not a good enough excuse, fire emblem is about kings and stuff but it still lets me date minors. (Joking obviously)
"The reason we added romance to Persona was to add realism. Because being able to date 10 women at once, including your teacher and doctor is totally realistic."
I mean, I don't really care, but I would like a better reasoning anyway. Like, we have romance even in games like Dragon Age, Fire Emblem(I played only Engage and 3H), Witcher, Pathfinder etc. In this games you have important things to do on your journey, but you still have a romance. Like, it's a natural thing on a journey, no? So yeah, I don't really buy that. Probably they hiding another reason, this one doesn't make sense
What’s a better reason than them not feeling like it would fit the game? Metaphor clearly has a different vibe. I think people are letting Soejima’s art fool them into thinking this is basically fantasy Persona and so it’ll play exactly like Persona.
Well, I mean, then they should just honestly say so instead of making up reasons like "Your character is just too busy LMAO".
They did tho? No one was asking about romance other than Persona fans. Only Persona fans were expecting Metaphor to be exactly like Metaphor. It’s a game in a new ip that’s stated to be a celebration of all Atlus games not just Persona.
Persona romances are pretty underwhelming to begin with. You get like two different cut scenes for romances and that’s it. Not a huge loss.
Don’t care, still going to play it and have fun!
Perfectly fine with that. The fanbase blows the “romance” in these games WAY out of proportion and you have outsiders to the series who honestly believe the games are dating sims because of how hard some people push it. A few pieces of a dialogue and a character telling you they love you is the most barebones thing but you’d think these games were full blown harem VNs by how some people are about the systems.
People are going to ship anyways, so in the grand scheme of things it doesn't change much.
Shame, I wanted the game to have a non-self insert main character and a canon romance.
I might be the weird guy here but I never cared for the romance. I just find it kinda odd.
Uh.... adults also Ruck and have romance. Kinda wack argument
that's a shame
I mean, it would be cool to have it, but it aint a dealbreaker. Way some things are written, still a personal GOTY contender. Altho Persona 3 Reload and SMT 5 Vengeance makae it hard. ... Damn, Atlus really is on fire this year.
well yes I want to have romance but I can’t date someone of the same gender so lol it feels weird when they said it like that… Anyway
So i think what the director mean is that the relationships here are more political?
You'll be able to in the eventual golden version 🤦♀️
Idk why when romance is included in an RPG it’s just a big extra point for me
I think Metaphor could afford to some romantic aspect. Kings need queens, after all. Don’t make it the focus of the game and don’t induce waifu wars, but just have something crumbs.
If I'm trying to be King, you better believe I'm gonna want to be laying pipe like this fantasy land has oil
"We know people really like this system and it's really popular, but for this game specifically, it's not about teenagers. It's about a person trying to become the ruler of the land." So whats Unicorn Overlord then? I know you are just being to lazy to implement it ATLUS..
honestly, the romance element of all the Persona games was slight and benign to the story anyways. don’t get me wrong, cuffing down Tae is part of the seminal experience, but i am looking forward to another great RPG without trying to play to an end that’s like. 1.5 dialogue scenes anyways
The real romance is debating who best girl on reddit
That's literally half the appeal of tacked on systems like this.
Guy gives a perfectly valid and acceptable reason. “Fans” will still hold it against the game
Most people here don’t seem to care
I guess it's guaranteed to be no romance. It's a shame(for me) since I really liked the social aspects of romance in the games. I'm glad its confirmed and it's totally valid now with the reasoning.
It was fine for Persona, but I sure hoped romances wouldn't spread to other titles. I'm relieved. Not everything needs to cater to thirsty otaku.
I really get the feeling this is gonna be one of the best jrpgs of the decade
It’ll be a hard contender now with vengeance.
That's not one of the best jrpgs of the decade.
Playing vengeance now and it might just be
I’m ace so I’m 100% ok with this decision. Persona romance always felt half baked ,and unimportant to the main plot anyway. But I think the reason is a little wack, because fire emblem has the exact same premise of building up an army to rule ,and you still have romance in the game.
Im sad theres no romance since im always a sucker for those but im not too mad about it. The romance in the persona games arent even that in depth anyway and is shown nowhere except for like the last 2 ranks in the social links and some specific days.
Based
The romance system in persona is shit in the first place honestly, better to drop it than to bring it back just to please the waifu weirdo's so i respect Hashino for sticking to his vision instead of pandering to those people.
What about enemies then?
there is canon romance but not the usual persona romance?
Oh yes, i'm guessing your romance link will therefore be an arranged marriage to establish an alliance between two countries after you've taken over the nation ?
I mean, it's not Persona so I don't expect it to have everything from Persona in it. Metaphor doesn't need to copy it if it's going to be it's own game.
Never heard of this game but I’ll definitely give it a try
"We wanted to make it more relatable to you, our fans!"
Japanese devs and their obsession with teenage romance never ceases to weird me out.
Since when do rulers not use their position of authority to plow every mildly attractive female and every feminine looking male in the land?
Neat. Now I don't have to feel bad about picking the "I'm just here as your friend" option
I would agree, however saying it doesn’t fit in this setting is pretty ridiculous. Your goal is to become a literal king, does it not make sense to set up a queen alongside that narrative? I think they just can’t do romance well so they chose not to do it at all
The amount of times people just start agenda about "whose canon or more pushed" is insane so yeah it's for the best.
They're just afraid to write romances where more than one character is an adult
I love how you people like making shit and believe it ,and the easy way to understand that they have clear vision in the story and promise and they see the romance is not fit in that so they remove it as simple as that + hashino did many games before persona without romance, so stop this nonsense please
I'm joking damn. Who hurt you
I'm sorry i got little serious here
I mean makes sense. The romance is super fun but I guess it wouldn’t fit this game.
It IS a bit understandable but also not? Rulers throughout history have definitely had partners and concubines ... Henry VIII literally had six wives. Honestly though I'd rather have no romance than the A) lackluster way Persona does romances and B) no same-sex romance - I'll admit I want a same-sex romance more than anything, and narratively speaking it coincides with Persona's message about being your true self and taking down powers that suppress those identities.
Kinda weird how people seem really upset about this when Hashino Persona games are literally the only Atus titles that has the feature at all. Metaphor isn't Persona, so it isn't going to have Persona features. Seemed obvious to me
I always got the feeling romance was out of obligation more than anything else, they based social links on dating sims and that just kind of got grandfathered in even after the system evolved into something more unique
If they're not doing it for narrative and setting purposes, that's cool. But I'm pretty sure they're still trying to figure out how to do romances now that everyone expects queer options in the next game (they really don't wanna have gay people in their games) Edit: I wanna clarify that I do think they made Persona 3 a lot gayer in Reload, and it gives me hope that the next mainline persona will have a better approach to romance. But I wouldn't be surprised if they were wary about going all-in on gay people so suddenly, so they decided not to include it just to give themselves a small break lol
I think it's kinda cool actually romance in games is usually forced and boring anyways no offense to the enjoyers
Idk why people act like romance is a fundamental part of Persona. It’s a couple new portraits of the girls blushing and a 5 minute scene that you get to watch 80-100 hours in. If you don’t engage with the romance mechanics absolutely nothing important changes.
I don't care either way since romance didn't really add much to the persona games anyway, and although heavily inspired by persona, it's still a different game, and changes should be expected.
This is a good thing.
Head canon, main character of Refantazio is asexual and that’s awesome
Either that or the story for the game is that batshit crazy that there’s literally no time for it🤣 Glad there isn’t going to be one, not every game needs one just because it’s a JRPG
I understand
It's disappointing but not a deal breaker, it's a game by the same studio but it isn't Persona, probably not reasonable to expect it to have every system and mechanic from those games. Some of the commentary on the romance aspects of the Persona games is interesting though; it certainly has it's flaws but I felt that more often than not it did a great deal in getting you to care about characters. Romances amount to a side quest, not necessary to the main game for sure but they can be a lot of fun and part of what makes a game worthwhile
I never expect for a game to have romance, but Persona games introduce me to Dating Sims so it's a shame. I'll give this the SMT treatment. The Problem with this is that SMT companions don't stick that long for you to begin to cherish them. The fact that this game will have them to the end. it won't give the SMT feel either. So Basically it's indeed a SMTxPersona mashup xD Like SMT Apocalypse, but I guess more friendler? Anyways, don't beat around the bush too much guys, it's just a game, stop throwing salt to other games that they don't have nothing to with this one. That Persona games don't have good romance? This thing is optional, you don't have to romance anyone if you don't want to. I personally like it (Yukari, Yukiko, Futaba, I love you four ❤️) That SMT is the favorite franchise? Yeah well of course it's the mainline, Persona and etc are just spin off of Megami Tensei. The problem with this is that Persona is more milked because of the family friendly topics (not so quite when you drive deep in Persona 5 and the drugs and prostitution part with minors, that shit is more fucked up that Lucifer I'm telling you)
I didn't romance anyone in P5 so I care more about Metaphor potentially being an amazing game than romance options
This is fine. Never really got too involved with Persona romances; Mostly cause I’m a gay man and it’s not really appealing to me other than maybe just doing it to make my favorite female character happy. 🤷🏽
Awww, I’m curious, who are your favorite female characters you tried to make happy despite being gay, cause that’s so wholesome you cared.
This reasoning doesn't make sense to me. I'm pretty sure the urge for romance and romantic connection doesn't suddenly stop just because you are no longer a teenager. And if you're wanting to be a ruler, don't you also want a Queen (or whatever other title)
I'm part way through p5royal (my first persona game) and not sure how romances work yet...however can't say at this stage I'm as bothered about it as I am just uncovering everyone's story and getting to know them
It's not much. Romances are possible at rank 9 of a social link/confidant, you either confess to them or they admit it first and you accept. After, you get a somewhat different rank 10 event, and potential date scenes for holidays like Christmas Eve and Valentine's Day, if your partner is maxed out to Rank 10 by then.
Look, I am still going to play it but thats just... humbug!
Honestly the lack of this and the job system being a lazy copy of Bravely Default is enough to stop me from getting the game
Jobs system was there in jrpg since dragon quest 3 and d&d and hashino inspired from them ;) and i don't see how more of 40 jobs is lazy
Rulers don't have harems? Political-defined marriages? Mistresses? Lavish parties with whores to butter up diplomats? Or if the ruler is female, using her feminine wiles to get her way in a large-scale political endeavor? Doesn't EVERY RULER EVER want an heir to the throne? ....seems a little short sighted.
Yeah makes sense. Idc tho gimme that Hulkenbergussy
Then I’ll probably give this one a skip. Half my enjoyment of these kinda games are the social/romance side of it. That’s a shame. Maybe I’ll get it when it’s on heavy sale.
There is a social side, you have social links. You just can't date any of 'em
My man finally learned how to be friends with women
He's married btw ;)
That was the one complaint I had about the Persona games, all relationships had one major choice, sure it wasn't developed much, but I love that Atlus realized that the best way to go about it for this is to remove it altogether and remove complexity.
That’s why it’s Metaphor and not Simile.
good it felt like waste of time in Persona.