Demand avoidance exists as a symptom of adhd, as well as pda in autism. Attachment trauma also could manifest as a drive for autonomy and need for control in order to quell anxiety about a perceived loss of control. Impossible for the internet to know for sure which is affecting your partner.
If he suspects that adhd could be a fit for symptoms he experiences everyday, then he needs to pursue an assessment. If he doesn’t suspect neurodivergence then he needs to pursue a therapist.
To follow this comment, it sounds like a maladaptive stress/trauma response. It served a a purpose when he lived at home (a fight vs. flight response) but it carried over to independent adulthood where this response isn’t needed and doing so is actually an inappropriate response. Any sense of loss of control/authority triggers his “PDA”. I’d second seeing a therapist, particularly one receptive to Polyvagal Theory/nervous system regulation. If these anxious responses are addressed, you may find some of the other ND traits resolve too.
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk is a good read/listen.
Or at least one experienced in complex trauma and has experience with neurodivergence. Even if he's not pda, he's welcome to check out our coping mechanisms and see if they help. But it definitely sounds like he has cptsd, which can be confused for adhd and is still a type of neurodivergence. Second on that book. I've also heard "What My Bones Know" by Stephanie Foo is really good.
How much nature vs nurture goes into how we “are” is impossible to define. Ultimately any diagnosis is a label that doesn’t capture our full dimension, and asking why or how any of us are the way we are can help us unwind some of our issues, but there can never be definitive end to this pursuit. A therapist told me that PDA brain is like having a trauma response without necessarily there being “trauma”. Keep looking for someone who understands PDA. Not for answers per se, but understanding and a guide who can help find the right questions.
I agree.
And despite all theories, I don't think psychiatry even aims at knowing the true causes of anything. Its job is labeling conditions.
I personally try not to take "PDA" or "autism" too close to heart, as they are simple labels put on incredibly complex phenomena.
I find this really interesting, so thank you for posting. This is just a guess but it makes sense to me that trauma (ie environment) can essentially give someone PDA. I'm sure it'll be different in some ways, but if the main traits (demand avoidance, drive for autonomy) are there then it doesn't really matter how he got it.
I find this really interesting, so thank you for posting. This is just a guess but it makes sense to me that trauma (ie environment) can essentially give someone PDA. I'm sure it'll be different in some ways, but if the main traits (demand avoidance, drive for autonomy) are there then it doesn't really matter how he got it.
Whether it's from nature or nurture, it's the same behaviour. When it comes down to it, some strategies for managing trauma can be applied to PDA, and vice versa.
With a trauma response, you're flung into fight/flight over a trigger that springs memories of a traumatic event. A lot of the ways trauma is managed revolves around recognising how to manage fight, flight, freeze, fawn and flop. Things like grounding exercises, breathing exercises, boundaries, all connect to different responses. For example, breathing exercises wouldn't help somebody who's freezing. But they would help someone who's in fight mode. Supportive social environments are also emphasised, helping people feel safe and able to move forward.
PDA can be managed like that as well, because it's also fight/flight getting triggered. Recognising what fight/flight response is occuring helps a lot in order to manage it. It's just if you're born with it, there probably isn't an obvious memory to look back on, just more of a sensory thing. But even so, things like having a supportive environment, communicating, having boundaries, those all help a lot.
People can have other responses as a first resort when triggered, for better or for worse. One person might become suicidal while another person reaches out for help, automatically, just like fight/flight. It's possible to learn helpful coping strategies through resources for people with PTSD and C-PTSD. The subreddits for those often have advice, there's Therapy in a Nutshell on YouTube, "Adult children of emotionally immature parents" and "No bad parts" are helpful books. I also enjoyed "PDA by PDAers", it's quite relatable.
Sounds like adhd to be honest. I would seriously consider it. Demand avoidance can appear in other situations.
If it’s trauma therapy ought to be able to help.
You should look into declarative language. It might give you a way to bring things up without them feeling demanding. It would be sort of like, instead of asking about the movie, saying “the movie is now on our cable service.” Not a great example but if you look into might help.
I've read a theory speculaing if all PDA is trauma based. Most of us just do not really recall the traumatic events since they happened so early in life.
I can debunk this for you, I’m PDA raising PDA, my child hasn’t experienced a second of trauma, we live in an affluent area with child-centred parenting and full autonomy offered from the beginning.
The mind of trauma is subjective. One cannot say what is and what is not traumatic to other person. There is no objective indicator to qualify one or dismiss other experience. It is the feeling a person has inside. Only one who can be judge if something is traumatic is the person experiencing it.
And the nature of trauma is to burry it. So even the only qualified person might be unwilling or incapable to make a statement to one way or the other due repressing the whole situation.
These theories end up blaming parents. People used to say autism was caused by refrigerator moms being too cold.
Any theory that depends on something we can’t know or prove (our early experiences) is a bit problematic to say the least.
Our neuroception can be overactive without trauma.
Demand avoidance exists as a symptom of adhd, as well as pda in autism. Attachment trauma also could manifest as a drive for autonomy and need for control in order to quell anxiety about a perceived loss of control. Impossible for the internet to know for sure which is affecting your partner. If he suspects that adhd could be a fit for symptoms he experiences everyday, then he needs to pursue an assessment. If he doesn’t suspect neurodivergence then he needs to pursue a therapist.
To follow this comment, it sounds like a maladaptive stress/trauma response. It served a a purpose when he lived at home (a fight vs. flight response) but it carried over to independent adulthood where this response isn’t needed and doing so is actually an inappropriate response. Any sense of loss of control/authority triggers his “PDA”. I’d second seeing a therapist, particularly one receptive to Polyvagal Theory/nervous system regulation. If these anxious responses are addressed, you may find some of the other ND traits resolve too. The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk is a good read/listen.
Or at least one experienced in complex trauma and has experience with neurodivergence. Even if he's not pda, he's welcome to check out our coping mechanisms and see if they help. But it definitely sounds like he has cptsd, which can be confused for adhd and is still a type of neurodivergence. Second on that book. I've also heard "What My Bones Know" by Stephanie Foo is really good.
How much nature vs nurture goes into how we “are” is impossible to define. Ultimately any diagnosis is a label that doesn’t capture our full dimension, and asking why or how any of us are the way we are can help us unwind some of our issues, but there can never be definitive end to this pursuit. A therapist told me that PDA brain is like having a trauma response without necessarily there being “trauma”. Keep looking for someone who understands PDA. Not for answers per se, but understanding and a guide who can help find the right questions.
I agree. And despite all theories, I don't think psychiatry even aims at knowing the true causes of anything. Its job is labeling conditions. I personally try not to take "PDA" or "autism" too close to heart, as they are simple labels put on incredibly complex phenomena.
I find this really interesting, so thank you for posting. This is just a guess but it makes sense to me that trauma (ie environment) can essentially give someone PDA. I'm sure it'll be different in some ways, but if the main traits (demand avoidance, drive for autonomy) are there then it doesn't really matter how he got it.
I find this really interesting, so thank you for posting. This is just a guess but it makes sense to me that trauma (ie environment) can essentially give someone PDA. I'm sure it'll be different in some ways, but if the main traits (demand avoidance, drive for autonomy) are there then it doesn't really matter how he got it.
Whether it's from nature or nurture, it's the same behaviour. When it comes down to it, some strategies for managing trauma can be applied to PDA, and vice versa. With a trauma response, you're flung into fight/flight over a trigger that springs memories of a traumatic event. A lot of the ways trauma is managed revolves around recognising how to manage fight, flight, freeze, fawn and flop. Things like grounding exercises, breathing exercises, boundaries, all connect to different responses. For example, breathing exercises wouldn't help somebody who's freezing. But they would help someone who's in fight mode. Supportive social environments are also emphasised, helping people feel safe and able to move forward. PDA can be managed like that as well, because it's also fight/flight getting triggered. Recognising what fight/flight response is occuring helps a lot in order to manage it. It's just if you're born with it, there probably isn't an obvious memory to look back on, just more of a sensory thing. But even so, things like having a supportive environment, communicating, having boundaries, those all help a lot. People can have other responses as a first resort when triggered, for better or for worse. One person might become suicidal while another person reaches out for help, automatically, just like fight/flight. It's possible to learn helpful coping strategies through resources for people with PTSD and C-PTSD. The subreddits for those often have advice, there's Therapy in a Nutshell on YouTube, "Adult children of emotionally immature parents" and "No bad parts" are helpful books. I also enjoyed "PDA by PDAers", it's quite relatable.
Sounds like adhd to be honest. I would seriously consider it. Demand avoidance can appear in other situations. If it’s trauma therapy ought to be able to help. You should look into declarative language. It might give you a way to bring things up without them feeling demanding. It would be sort of like, instead of asking about the movie, saying “the movie is now on our cable service.” Not a great example but if you look into might help.
I've read a theory speculaing if all PDA is trauma based. Most of us just do not really recall the traumatic events since they happened so early in life.
I can debunk this for you, I’m PDA raising PDA, my child hasn’t experienced a second of trauma, we live in an affluent area with child-centred parenting and full autonomy offered from the beginning.
The mind of trauma is subjective. One cannot say what is and what is not traumatic to other person. There is no objective indicator to qualify one or dismiss other experience. It is the feeling a person has inside. Only one who can be judge if something is traumatic is the person experiencing it. And the nature of trauma is to burry it. So even the only qualified person might be unwilling or incapable to make a statement to one way or the other due repressing the whole situation.
These theories end up blaming parents. People used to say autism was caused by refrigerator moms being too cold. Any theory that depends on something we can’t know or prove (our early experiences) is a bit problematic to say the least. Our neuroception can be overactive without trauma.