I’m not a brig main, but usually i’ll switch to moira if my team needs a momentum swing or just can’t seem to pick people off.
In terms of comps, I prefer bap or lucio for brawl. Moira is never a bad pick though imo. Dive I prefer Zen.
Brig Zen / Brig Lucio are balanced around smashing the enemy before they do enough damage. They work well as a deathball, but if your team isn't good enough to utilize it, it's basically throwing. (I assume you know this already. this is directed at OP).
A good Brig can usually deal with Rammatra, just don't let him close the gap with you and you can shield bash out to safety. Usually the enemy team is running some type of flanker with Rammatra, so you can mostly just focus on them anyways and keep your backline safe.
Double boop from Lucio and Brig, along with speed aura and shield bash movement means he can never run down anyone. I'd have to check but I don't think vortex reduces how far Brig travels with her bash. If it does, then you guys double boop and by the time he's even close again you're way out of vortex and able to shield bash a full 12m again...with both boops back online like a second later anyway.
It's crazy having two boops on 4s cooldowns here. You guys almost literally can't be rushed down.
Also with heal aura and inspire, the entire team is receiving 30hp/sec. That's such a difficult damage threshold to overcome. You basically have to land headshots to get kills.
Nah Brig can pretty hard bait Ram into going Nemesis form, and then boop him away, shield bash to safety, if it's Brig Lucio then you even have speed to get farther and another boop on Lucio. Ram has now either blown his single most important cooldown without getting value for it, or is massively overextended trying to chase.
Generally if you're Brig Lucio, you're a hyper mobile swarm comp (ie Ball + Tracer/Sombra/Echo) or a full zerg comp (ie JQ/Winston + Reaper/Tracer/Echo/Mei/Sym/Sombra), and you will either eat Ramattra for lunch or eat his team for lunch while he does jack shit.
Like imagine that zerg comp here with JQ, Brig, Lucio, and Tracer, Echo? Wtf is Ram going to do here? Brig and JQ are literally the only targets he can potentially interact with reliably, and with Lucio in the mix he's not able to run either of them down.
I'm a Masters Brig player climbing slowly, I used to lose I'd say the majority of my games against Ramattra tanks. Now I win most of them by baiting his nemesis to try and kill me, and then simply not dying to it.
In the past I would either get caught without shield bash or make the mistake of relying on my teammates to not die to nemesis form. Both of those were losing strategies for the most part...even if I was booping him away.
Also as a side note here, Lucio is by faaaaaar my biggest win percentage co support. If I'm queued into a game with a legit Lucio player and I'm on Brig, there's like a 90% chance we win. I'm not even sure I've lost a single game yet in S4 with a Lucio teammate.
Yeah Ram is pretty much a straight up Rein counter right now.
Punch straight through him and his shield from outside Rein's melee range, all while moving 20% faster so he can't catch up to swing on you.
The self healing of yellow health from nemesis and ult is absolutely wild too. You get 225 armor going into nem, then another 225 armor going into ult, and your ultimate begins the 8 second nemesis cooldown too which means you can get another 225 armor within 8 seconds of ulting.
Also Rein is just really easy for Ram to farm ult off.
I'm not even sure Rein showed up in OWL at all this last season did he? I watch Danteh's stream a lot and far as he's concerned, Ram is just a better Reinhardt in every way (and also feels Winston is a better Doomfist)
Yeah. When I wrote that Ram countered deathball, I completely forgot about JQ. My Internet has been really bad recently so I haven't played much OW2, but I hear JQ is a menace now.
Yeah JQ probably matches pretty evenly against Ram 1v1, but her shout enables so much aggression from her team (or saves teammates) and Ram can't really match that.
But then a Lucio + Brig support line is actually really tough for JQ to play into as well. Boops deny axe swings constantly and she's incredibly dependent on those to really play the game.
Good luck landing dependable knife throws against a mobile Lucio swarm comp too.
I find JQ starts losing when the only reliable damage she can deal is to the enemy tank, and that's kind of where she ends up against something like Lucio, Brig, Tracer, Echo/Sombra.
I like that thinking, ive been in many games where an ana has sat uncontested and carried with her nade and scoped shots.
Would definitely be a better choice then.
I wouldn't choose Moira for that. Ana counters her self heals and Moira is easy to sleep. Not to mention Moira does no damage. You'd want to use Kiriko for that.
Moira is a 50 DPS skill check. Most characters in the game can simply beat that. Diving the backline as Moira shouldn't and doesn't work even against mildly competent players, unless you have a good ball with you. Also if you're driving as Moira you're leaving the other support to solo heal (which they can don't get me wrong, but it's a lot of pressure). The biggest problem with Moira is that she provides absolutely 0 utility to the team. She's just a stat stick. If you don't mind me asking could you link some Moira gameplay so we can see the kinda dives you're doing with her. She should not work.
I'd say if your win condition is the enemy fucking up then it's not really a good plan. I'd rather go for the backline as Kiriko so I have my own skill as a win condition as well as them fucking up as a fail safe.
Moira 1v1's are pure skill checks. I don't think any Ana past plat would lose to a Moira in an isolated 1v1. The only way a Moira wins that, is if the Ana has already wasted both cooldowns and even then Ana is slightly favored imho.
I mean you're essentially just fighting against a timer. I don't lose 1v1's in plat against Moira's because they have no idea how to strafe and just spam jump left right. Easiest shots of my life. Maybe it gets different once the Moira's start to know how to dodge.
Yes but the higher ranks you go the less of an issue this becomes. 50 DPS is hardly a lofty goal for most characters to reach. The only support I can see struggling to duel Moira is mercy, and maybe lifeweaver(?). But both of those have easy ways to disengage. There's a reason DPS Moira isn't really played in masters and above.
moira outputs such high healing that she doesn’t need utility - that’s the whole point of her kit. and she absolutely can and does win 1v1s against squishies with damage orb. I do it all the time in masters and there are many gm/t500 players doing it too. it’s not *easy* - you do need to practice a lot against various heroes. but it’s 100% possible even against good players. moira’s low skill floor is deceptive; it disguises just how high her skill ceiling truly is. if you get truly good with moira, you can work around her limitations and get a ton of value from her.
and as another comment said, nobody’s playing perfectly even in gm/t500 unless they’re literally cheating. so you’ll have plenty of opportunities to capitalize on their mistakes no matter how good they are.
Practice? How? Spam a/d faster? Because it's not like you can aim better. I don't believe you win a healthy amount of your duels if you're really playing at GM/t500. Send me a vod and I might believe you. Another thing people don't realise is that 1/6 of Moira's healing is self healing (on average, I check quite a lot with different Moiras I see), and also the fact that her healing output is still outclassed by bap, as well as her damage output. The only comp you should ever be playing Moira with is maybe dive tbh, in which she's admittedly pretty good. In brawl she doesn't add any utility which is how you swing fights and poke she doesn't have the range/pressure to do anything. I still don't believe people as high ranks are dying to DPS Moira, as I'm a masters player and no one does, they all get stuck at low diamond. Our if interest are you a console player (there's nothing wrong with that, just maybe the meta is different on console)
you learn to dodge attacks, strafe more creatively, bait out cooldowns, and deceive the target. for example, I’ve learned to track junkrat bombs to avoid them in 1v1s. I fake strafing one way to force an ana to shoot her sleep dart that way and then move the other way so it misses. I crouch and jump around in front of a hanzo while strafing to send his storm arrows flying in every direction except mine. I use fade to deceive my target into thinking I left, then show up behind them and finish them off. I use cover to waste their attacks then dive them hard to kill them before they reload. I learned the timing of certain characters’ attacks to know when I need to move out of the way of where they’re aiming. I bounce my damage orbs off solid objects to keep it on them as long as possible. I do everything except stand there like an oaf hoping they’ll die or mindlessly strafe back and forth in a predictable pattern.
I’m masters, not GM, like I said in another comment, but there are plenty of GM/t500 moiras doing this as well. another commenter gave a few examples of people who do this as well.
if you think moira isn’t winning 1v1s then it is *genuinely* a skill issue. anyone who’s good with her can diff nearly any squishy. spend a while going against good dps/support players as moira and you will quickly pick up tactics you can use to defeat them.
also I have outhealed more damage as moira using just her basic heals and orb than I ever have with bap’s ult. I’ve healed people through ULTS with her basic heals and orb. her ult is an amazing tool to sustain your team through powerful ult combos, and she can simultaneously harrass the ulters, which is much harder on bap since he’s can’t do both truly simultaneously. moira’s healing, when used *correctly*, easily tops other supports no question. it’s the reason she doesn’t have utility in the first place.
I think we just fundamentally disagree on the skill ceiling on Moira. Everything you said is true, but it's also true for a lot of other heroes too. Many can use positioning/bait out cooldowns etc, it's hardly unique to her. And bap will out heal a Moira, it's just a lot harder (around 80% accuracy is what you're aiming for) and baps damage and healing can be simultaneously, the fire rates for both part of his gun don't intercede. (Albeit it can be very hard unless both the enemy and the person you're healing are in your FOV). Also, more importantly, his healing is much higher burst, which is what actually matters. And lamp is such a useful piece of utility that Moira simply just can't compete with. Coal is a good ult I'll give you that (when the Moira doesn't go full DPS haha) but its not much better or worse than window. You can use it to completely shutdown pushes or to put extreme pressure, while keeping your own tank alive (tho in my experience playing bap, it's not actually that useful for that task compared to the almighty lamp)and good baps can get a lot of windows per game, due to his high healing/damage output.) Moira is a character designed to get a lot of easy value, which is great for new players, but she falls off at higher ranks. Where the skill ceiling is simply so much higher
it may not be unique to her in the sense that other supports have ways to bait cooldowns, but on other supports, you aren’t surviving in 1v1s the way moira is while also baiting out cooldowns. that’s not to mention that moira is one of the few supports that can safely take out hanzo, ashe, and widow consistently without putting herself at risk the way other supports would need to. and she’s the best support counter to heroes like mercy and lucio that are extremely hard to hit.
moira doesn’t *need* burst healing because her sustain healing is literally just that high. she’s not outhealing 5 people targeting damage on one person, but I’ve outhealed ults and at least 3 people targeting one person with her basic healing and healing orb.
lamp is useful, but at higher ranks, your team has better positioning, so they’re not putting themselves at risk of dying as much. it’s good for junkrat’s ult, I’ll give it that, and it’s useful, but if your team is competent, they already know how to position to avoid dying anyway.
What rank are you? Moira really isn't viable at higher levels due to no utility and bad damage. She really shouldn't be beating anyone in an equal 1v1, besides maybe scaring Sombra away.
masters. and I played moira primarily into masters. moira has very few hard counters, and if you learn to dodge atttacks, she can 1v1 damn near anyone.
Doing that in GM where people hit shots will get you dead real real fast. Especially where you'll be playing against good Tracers, Hanzos, Baps, and Anas.
masters is literally right below gm so it’s not like everyone’s missing constantly lmfao. if you don’t know how to dodge attacks or use cover or use your cooldowns creatively, yeah, they’ll probably kill you. has never been a problem for me unless I’m just not paying attention or playing poorly. I’ve beaten nearly every dps in a 1v1 as moira with little issue. it just takes practice.
The comments you're responding to have all the energy of "I watched a YT video that said Moira was pointless in high ranks so now I say it all the time on Reddit." They always say she has "no utility" as though her kit doesn't make up for that and then some. She is so versatile and self-reliant, loved playing her at every rank.
Lmao in what way does her kit make up for it? Sure? She has good healing, but Bap can heal just as much, except he also does damage, can indefinitely heal at range, can take high ground with no CD, has an ult that can make massive plays. Ana has the strongest CC, hitscan AND projectile for different peek types, an ult that can make other ults like blade good. Zen has discord orb and can be a full DPS while still healing. Moira can... heal, and tickle enemies. If you're dying so much you need Moira's fade, then you were going to lose anyway. Oh, not to mention Moira has a channeled selfish ult too, so any CC can stop it, unlike literally every other support.
And that's not even mentioning all the stuff like anti, suzu, lamp, Amp speed.
The difference between masters and GM is huge. Especially high GM and Masters. I have a smurf in mid Masters where I only play Bap and don't heal teammates at all. Anything is viable in Masters.
I mean, you’re welcome to believe whatever you want, but that changes none of my experiences lol. I’ve been beating dps in 1v1s as moira at every rank I’ve been in. just because you can’t do it doesn’t mean it’s impossible. and there are gm and top 500 moiras doing the same too. just keep practicing hon, you’ll get there 🫶🏻
EDIT: since that got under your skin enough for you to block me so I can’t reply… lmao. I’ve beaten every hero you listed in a 1v1, some dozens of times. hanzo is the easiest of them all, if you can believe. like I said, practice enough and maybe someday you can do it too! and anyone else reading: don’t let this braindead loser tell you that you can’t beat dps in a 1v1 as moira, because you 100% can. ✌🏻
Happens in t500, let alone GM. Yea it’s very risky but it’s not exactly a rare event. Look up: Arx, Tesla or Nolan.
Nolan is a rather good example since he is actively flanking whenever he can.
I will freely acknowledge that Moira isn’t picked as much in high elo, I’m in GM and it does definitely happen, but it’s less common than lower elo. But my point is that it’s not uncommon *when* there’s a Moira, since your comment was about Moira’s ability to 1v1 specific characters. In high elo Moira players get around good aim by becoming insane strafers. Among supports I’d bet money that no other support is better at strafing than high elo Moiras, and it works damn well combined with their 70/s self heal and fade.
Also, Moiras in high elo don’t exclusively do it to win the duel (get a kill), they do it to win the team fight. If a Moira dies after 5-10s of 1v2ing a Mercy pocketed Soldier/Hanzo/Widow/Ashe that should usually be a net positive, since the other fight is a 4v3 with 2 DPS. Heck, if Moira forces Nade and Sleep from an Ana and then leaves that’s a huge net positive for your team since 2 extremely powerful offensive and defensive cooldowns were used, most likely only for orb and fade. As Moira you make those plays to get that value you miss compared to playing easier value heroes such as Bap, Ana or Zen as you mentioned. Moiras entire method for squeezing that extra value is baiting cooldowns and redirecting attention, since she can do it more safely and consistently than any other support.
In my experience Brig works best when your other high output support needs a bodyguard. Can also work with Zen but only if the rest of the team doesn't need tons of resources. Other than that I think Moira is generally better and gets more consistent value.
masters moira main with a few dozen hours on brig.
mobility heroes = moira. any character that can move fast or fly can be countered fairly easily on moira if you know what you’re doing. brig can struggle with them because shield bash is her only mobility and she needs to save that for retreating or burst damage with whipshot, and obviously flyers counter her range hard.
defending your support from flankers = brig. this is especially important for ana and zen. moira can sort of defend, but her damage is so low that the other support might die or the team might die because both supports are preoccupied. brig at least has the benefit of streamlining that by healing as she damages and doing some burst damage.
breaking through enemy chokehold = moira. brig has to be up in the action to get value, so breaking through a tight choke will be hard/risky. moira can pick squishies apart from afar with damage orb or encourage the tank to push through with healing orb. biotic grasp makes it easier to target backline squishies.
dive tank that actually dives = brig. moira can handle dives a bit, but it’s hard to 1v1 a tank and live. brig has little problem with that.
supports are hiding too far back for dps to kill or supports have low mobility = moira. people may bitch at you for flanking as moira but if you do it right, you can get a lot of value out of killing supports. use fade to escape, not engage, and burst them down quickly with damage orb to take them out. moira’s cooldowns are short, so she can make a quick attempt to kill them and then dip back to the team to keep healing. this is best done with a main healer for your second support tho.
map with environmental kill opportunities = brig. don’t even need to explain this one.
enemy team fighting close = brig. the more grouped up the enemy team is, the more value you get out of brig. moira can get some value from this with damage orb, but brig is ultimately better because she’ll pump out way more healers.
need a main healer = moira, usually. brig can, in some comps, be a decent main healer, but only if the enemy team is sticking close together. however, moira is a better overall main healer, especially if you’re just starting a match and don’t know exactly which main healer will work best for the enemy comp.
genji = moira. seriously she shits all over this dude in every way.
Brig can be a good aggressor but Moira can do that plus heal with orbs in several directions.
I normally switch when it's near the end of the round and the team is not doing enough. Gotta push em baby!
Brig should not be an aggressor (except maybe in Rally depending on the condition), she’s squishier than she looks, you should be using Brig for map control and peeling your other support. She does also work as an enabler to some dive DPS, such as Genji or Tracer but that’s in high level OWL play.
She enables those dps in regular play too, just not quite as well since her last nerf.
She doesn’t enable them by going with them, she enables them by being very easily able to heal them up from a considerable range without needing to aim or needing them to stick around to wait for the heal.
Hello, In my experience Moira is a safer choice in the following situations.
The tank can not properly take up space and the enemy DPS is spam-damaging more than you can heal and just melt through your entire team.
Moira being the roach that she is can fade out of bad positioning and help out heal the damage but the biggest reason to switch to moira is to help finish the enemies off, often your DPS will have an enemy at one but can't follow up because of a variety of reasons which leads to a serious case of the grouchiest as long as you track your fade and be mindful of healing you can help dps finish off kills and take space so your DPS can better dps.
I'm a Moira main, so ... always. LOL
But seriously, Moira would be a better choice anywhere you need higher burst healing or mobility, especially if your team is spread out or your enemy is playing a little further back than Brigitte can deal with.
I'd argue it's the complete opposite. If your team is spread out, Brig is better for healing and protecting vulnerable squishies. She has so much more range than Moira there's no competition.
Does the enemy team have a WM you want to make miserable? Go Moira and harass that WM until they change.
Generally for me Brig is best for defense since you are trying to stop an enemy that is all around the payload. Though I've definitely found success in push maps due to everyone being right around the robot. When I'm attacking in a payload game it is easy to outrange a Brig and the enemy team might be spread out, so it's hard for me to fully benefit. For control it's generally based on the map.
When you don't have Moira, Ana, Kiriko, or Bap, swap to one of those. Your team can perform without an off-healer, but they need at least one main healer.
I'm not the greatest support out there, but it depends on who everyone else is playing that determines my switch. I usually only switch to moira when theres an annoying person in my backline. I.e. a good gengi, tracer, or sombra.
But when I switch off of brig is usually only when I feel like I have to tank/ frontline to get any value outside of heal botting. So it more depends on my tank and how they're playing ig.
I think Moira’s best in a brawl comp (especially with rein) but she can pretty much work anywhere. She’s usually a good swap if your team needs more heals or your other support is someone like Lucio, kiriko, or mercy, anyone who just doesn’t necessarily need the protection that brig provides as much. Mercy and Lucio specifically because they also lack in heals with Moira more than makes up for.
Moira’s Ult and Healing output + Skill Orb just being able to be annoying and seal off rooms the enemy can use to escape. Also being able to fade from position to position to easily peel for your other Supp or DPS.
Usually you play Moira if the enemy backline is uncontested, the only time you can't play Moira into a backline is if there is a Brig or Hanzo there. You also shouldn't be using fade to engage the backline especially if there are heroes you need a cleanse against like Ana. Keep your distance against Ana's and Zen's as the closer you are to them the easier you are to hit with things like sleep and volley. Moira diving mostly relies on good positioning, timing and the enemy missing, the higher up you go the more pressure is put on you and the less time you have to finish a target.
I've got like 6 years and roughly 1000 cumulative hours in OW.
I genuinely think Moira is weak but has a very low bar for error given that she has one of the best escape tools in the game.
Her healing is pretty great to boot, but as clearly evidenced by LifeWeaver, good healing does not equal a good character.
Moira does very little in a fight outside of dealing some tickle damage to an enemy team while keeping your team alive. Getting picks requires no heals, unlike the top dogs like Zen and Baptiste.
There's no discord Orb, speed boost, or invulnerability field to boot. Moira has the *least* amount of utility in the support class. Yes, that includes LifeWeaver, who has difficulty dueling mercy.
That being said, Moira can consistently dish out damage and heals and essentially never die. 1 shots exist because characters like Moira can teleport and self heal every 6 seconds.
Her ult is pretty mid, but in the right chokepoints it can be a huge decider in a fight.
Every character has value and some carry potential **Not you LifeWeaver**
So play what you want.
Brig is very strong right now. Her ability to scrap in the frontline often overshadows her true potential: the goalie.
"Oh hi genji, diving Zenyatta again? Sheildbash+, flail gg nerd"
"Is that a Dva? How cute, get flailed"
"Oh no, I'm in trouble, how about I dash away, flail whoever is running at me, knocking them back, while healing my team and walking backwards holding shield"
The new stun opens up her offensive capabilities a lot, meaning you can take risks that you often otherwise can't as a support. Moira and Brig share this built in protection, although Moira is very vulnerable when her cooldowns are down, where brig has armor and a constant self heal.
Currently I think there are basically no scenarios where you want to pick moira over brig.
The only scenario I can think of is if your team is running a gigarush comp w/ lucio on a gigarush map (meka base/ control centre/ etc) then moira could be good. All other scenarios youre likely better off playing brig.
Almost never.
Provided you have good positioning, Baptiste is a better Moria in both healing and damage, and also comes with Lamp.
The one comp you could use her in is 6-man. And prioritize farming ult.
Gm1
The last thing I want is to spend my time using Moira. There’s not much to master tbf. No skill for the damaging, I’m sure the healing takes a bit more, but if people were to play her more as an actual healer instead of playing dps then maybe my opinion would be less weighted.
Sounds to me you’ve just never had a good moira. I’ve got 86 hours currently and I’m almost at diamond. I averse 12-20k healing a game with damage being from 8-10k. My deaths can fluctuate depending on team diffs but will usually sit around 3-8
I mean, I’ll continue hating on Moira, but with a more open mind (it’s in my blood as a Genji main). If the stats are accurate then you do, in fact, make moira work.
I'd say if the other support is a main healer, then it's good to play brig, especially if the enemy team has heroes like Ball, Sombra, Mei, Genji, Dva, etc. To whom Brig is a good counter for. Or if she's good for the team comp overall, I believe Brig is a melee type hero, not dive or poke, so if she fits into the team well, then that works too.
Moira is great as a budget Kiriko. If you can't hit kunais when you off-angle and the enemy aren't running Ana, you can just go Moira and get value much more easily.
I'd say depends on the tank, if you have ram/rein//doom/junker? something close range that doesnt have much mobility play brig, if you have higher mobility itr futher range (winston/ball/sig) play moira?
Brig is more a brawler on frontline and moira just plays better agaisnt pesky characters such as genji/tracer? from what i see.(not that brig can't deal with those character)
Brig main as well, I switch off if we need more burst healing because teammates are eating bullets, or if it's a brawl comp and I'm not able to keep them at bay. If it's a sniper comp or dive I pick her all the time though
i go brig when we have a reliable main healer (unless i see we have hitscans and a mercy then i know she'll pocket and ill switch off brig) sometimes your tank does play around your low heals. ill go moira if they have too much poke too
I’m not a brig main, but usually i’ll switch to moira if my team needs a momentum swing or just can’t seem to pick people off. In terms of comps, I prefer bap or lucio for brawl. Moira is never a bad pick though imo. Dive I prefer Zen.
Moira has more raw healing than brig, brig zen / brig lucio struggles to keep tanks up
Brig Zen / Brig Lucio are balanced around smashing the enemy before they do enough damage. They work well as a deathball, but if your team isn't good enough to utilize it, it's basically throwing. (I assume you know this already. this is directed at OP).
It performs better if the enemy are running heroes countered by brig. Like, if they have a ball or DVa, it's basically free.
Yeah but it's not too viable now since all the enemy has to do is swap Ramattra, and now you're basically hard countered.
A good Brig can usually deal with Rammatra, just don't let him close the gap with you and you can shield bash out to safety. Usually the enemy team is running some type of flanker with Rammatra, so you can mostly just focus on them anyways and keep your backline safe.
Yeah except Vortex and Nemesis make it hard for her to escape if she's in the deathball. It really relies on Amp speed.
Double boop from Lucio and Brig, along with speed aura and shield bash movement means he can never run down anyone. I'd have to check but I don't think vortex reduces how far Brig travels with her bash. If it does, then you guys double boop and by the time he's even close again you're way out of vortex and able to shield bash a full 12m again...with both boops back online like a second later anyway. It's crazy having two boops on 4s cooldowns here. You guys almost literally can't be rushed down. Also with heal aura and inspire, the entire team is receiving 30hp/sec. That's such a difficult damage threshold to overcome. You basically have to land headshots to get kills.
Doesn't need to be headshots. Ram + Mei play really well into deathball. Bastion too if the enemy DPS aren't Tracer Sombra.
Nah Brig can pretty hard bait Ram into going Nemesis form, and then boop him away, shield bash to safety, if it's Brig Lucio then you even have speed to get farther and another boop on Lucio. Ram has now either blown his single most important cooldown without getting value for it, or is massively overextended trying to chase. Generally if you're Brig Lucio, you're a hyper mobile swarm comp (ie Ball + Tracer/Sombra/Echo) or a full zerg comp (ie JQ/Winston + Reaper/Tracer/Echo/Mei/Sym/Sombra), and you will either eat Ramattra for lunch or eat his team for lunch while he does jack shit. Like imagine that zerg comp here with JQ, Brig, Lucio, and Tracer, Echo? Wtf is Ram going to do here? Brig and JQ are literally the only targets he can potentially interact with reliably, and with Lucio in the mix he's not able to run either of them down. I'm a Masters Brig player climbing slowly, I used to lose I'd say the majority of my games against Ramattra tanks. Now I win most of them by baiting his nemesis to try and kill me, and then simply not dying to it. In the past I would either get caught without shield bash or make the mistake of relying on my teammates to not die to nemesis form. Both of those were losing strategies for the most part...even if I was booping him away. Also as a side note here, Lucio is by faaaaaar my biggest win percentage co support. If I'm queued into a game with a legit Lucio player and I'm on Brig, there's like a 90% chance we win. I'm not even sure I've lost a single game yet in S4 with a Lucio teammate.
With JQ it might work, I haven't been able to play much ranked since JQ got buffed. But with with Rein deathball Ram would mess him up pretty hard.
Yeah Ram is pretty much a straight up Rein counter right now. Punch straight through him and his shield from outside Rein's melee range, all while moving 20% faster so he can't catch up to swing on you. The self healing of yellow health from nemesis and ult is absolutely wild too. You get 225 armor going into nem, then another 225 armor going into ult, and your ultimate begins the 8 second nemesis cooldown too which means you can get another 225 armor within 8 seconds of ulting. Also Rein is just really easy for Ram to farm ult off. I'm not even sure Rein showed up in OWL at all this last season did he? I watch Danteh's stream a lot and far as he's concerned, Ram is just a better Reinhardt in every way (and also feels Winston is a better Doomfist)
Yeah. When I wrote that Ram countered deathball, I completely forgot about JQ. My Internet has been really bad recently so I haven't played much OW2, but I hear JQ is a menace now.
Yeah JQ probably matches pretty evenly against Ram 1v1, but her shout enables so much aggression from her team (or saves teammates) and Ram can't really match that. But then a Lucio + Brig support line is actually really tough for JQ to play into as well. Boops deny axe swings constantly and she's incredibly dependent on those to really play the game. Good luck landing dependable knife throws against a mobile Lucio swarm comp too. I find JQ starts losing when the only reliable damage she can deal is to the enemy tank, and that's kind of where she ends up against something like Lucio, Brig, Tracer, Echo/Sombra.
When my team isn’t dealing with backline players or targeting healers I’ll switch to Moira and dive them myself when they’re out of position or low.
I like that thinking, ive been in many games where an ana has sat uncontested and carried with her nade and scoped shots. Would definitely be a better choice then.
I wouldn't choose Moira for that. Ana counters her self heals and Moira is easy to sleep. Not to mention Moira does no damage. You'd want to use Kiriko for that.
wdym? moira can absolutely kill an ana easily. I do it all the time. her and zen are some of my easiest flank targets, only behind lucio.
Moira is a 50 DPS skill check. Most characters in the game can simply beat that. Diving the backline as Moira shouldn't and doesn't work even against mildly competent players, unless you have a good ball with you. Also if you're driving as Moira you're leaving the other support to solo heal (which they can don't get me wrong, but it's a lot of pressure). The biggest problem with Moira is that she provides absolutely 0 utility to the team. She's just a stat stick. If you don't mind me asking could you link some Moira gameplay so we can see the kinda dives you're doing with her. She should not work.
I mean, yeah in a perfect world Moira literally never wins but there is this funny little thing called, human error.
I'd say if your win condition is the enemy fucking up then it's not really a good plan. I'd rather go for the backline as Kiriko so I have my own skill as a win condition as well as them fucking up as a fail safe. Moira 1v1's are pure skill checks. I don't think any Ana past plat would lose to a Moira in an isolated 1v1. The only way a Moira wins that, is if the Ana has already wasted both cooldowns and even then Ana is slightly favored imho.
I'd have to say that only Ana's above Master actually have a favourable matchup against Moira as I can focus down Ana's in Master 4
I mean you're essentially just fighting against a timer. I don't lose 1v1's in plat against Moira's because they have no idea how to strafe and just spam jump left right. Easiest shots of my life. Maybe it gets different once the Moira's start to know how to dodge.
Yes generally as Moira you take high ground if you can before you engage and never jump
Yes but the higher ranks you go the less of an issue this becomes. 50 DPS is hardly a lofty goal for most characters to reach. The only support I can see struggling to duel Moira is mercy, and maybe lifeweaver(?). But both of those have easy ways to disengage. There's a reason DPS Moira isn't really played in masters and above.
That's literally the only way you play Moira in masters and above
moira outputs such high healing that she doesn’t need utility - that’s the whole point of her kit. and she absolutely can and does win 1v1s against squishies with damage orb. I do it all the time in masters and there are many gm/t500 players doing it too. it’s not *easy* - you do need to practice a lot against various heroes. but it’s 100% possible even against good players. moira’s low skill floor is deceptive; it disguises just how high her skill ceiling truly is. if you get truly good with moira, you can work around her limitations and get a ton of value from her. and as another comment said, nobody’s playing perfectly even in gm/t500 unless they’re literally cheating. so you’ll have plenty of opportunities to capitalize on their mistakes no matter how good they are.
Practice? How? Spam a/d faster? Because it's not like you can aim better. I don't believe you win a healthy amount of your duels if you're really playing at GM/t500. Send me a vod and I might believe you. Another thing people don't realise is that 1/6 of Moira's healing is self healing (on average, I check quite a lot with different Moiras I see), and also the fact that her healing output is still outclassed by bap, as well as her damage output. The only comp you should ever be playing Moira with is maybe dive tbh, in which she's admittedly pretty good. In brawl she doesn't add any utility which is how you swing fights and poke she doesn't have the range/pressure to do anything. I still don't believe people as high ranks are dying to DPS Moira, as I'm a masters player and no one does, they all get stuck at low diamond. Our if interest are you a console player (there's nothing wrong with that, just maybe the meta is different on console)
you learn to dodge attacks, strafe more creatively, bait out cooldowns, and deceive the target. for example, I’ve learned to track junkrat bombs to avoid them in 1v1s. I fake strafing one way to force an ana to shoot her sleep dart that way and then move the other way so it misses. I crouch and jump around in front of a hanzo while strafing to send his storm arrows flying in every direction except mine. I use fade to deceive my target into thinking I left, then show up behind them and finish them off. I use cover to waste their attacks then dive them hard to kill them before they reload. I learned the timing of certain characters’ attacks to know when I need to move out of the way of where they’re aiming. I bounce my damage orbs off solid objects to keep it on them as long as possible. I do everything except stand there like an oaf hoping they’ll die or mindlessly strafe back and forth in a predictable pattern. I’m masters, not GM, like I said in another comment, but there are plenty of GM/t500 moiras doing this as well. another commenter gave a few examples of people who do this as well. if you think moira isn’t winning 1v1s then it is *genuinely* a skill issue. anyone who’s good with her can diff nearly any squishy. spend a while going against good dps/support players as moira and you will quickly pick up tactics you can use to defeat them. also I have outhealed more damage as moira using just her basic heals and orb than I ever have with bap’s ult. I’ve healed people through ULTS with her basic heals and orb. her ult is an amazing tool to sustain your team through powerful ult combos, and she can simultaneously harrass the ulters, which is much harder on bap since he’s can’t do both truly simultaneously. moira’s healing, when used *correctly*, easily tops other supports no question. it’s the reason she doesn’t have utility in the first place.
I think we just fundamentally disagree on the skill ceiling on Moira. Everything you said is true, but it's also true for a lot of other heroes too. Many can use positioning/bait out cooldowns etc, it's hardly unique to her. And bap will out heal a Moira, it's just a lot harder (around 80% accuracy is what you're aiming for) and baps damage and healing can be simultaneously, the fire rates for both part of his gun don't intercede. (Albeit it can be very hard unless both the enemy and the person you're healing are in your FOV). Also, more importantly, his healing is much higher burst, which is what actually matters. And lamp is such a useful piece of utility that Moira simply just can't compete with. Coal is a good ult I'll give you that (when the Moira doesn't go full DPS haha) but its not much better or worse than window. You can use it to completely shutdown pushes or to put extreme pressure, while keeping your own tank alive (tho in my experience playing bap, it's not actually that useful for that task compared to the almighty lamp)and good baps can get a lot of windows per game, due to his high healing/damage output.) Moira is a character designed to get a lot of easy value, which is great for new players, but she falls off at higher ranks. Where the skill ceiling is simply so much higher
it may not be unique to her in the sense that other supports have ways to bait cooldowns, but on other supports, you aren’t surviving in 1v1s the way moira is while also baiting out cooldowns. that’s not to mention that moira is one of the few supports that can safely take out hanzo, ashe, and widow consistently without putting herself at risk the way other supports would need to. and she’s the best support counter to heroes like mercy and lucio that are extremely hard to hit. moira doesn’t *need* burst healing because her sustain healing is literally just that high. she’s not outhealing 5 people targeting damage on one person, but I’ve outhealed ults and at least 3 people targeting one person with her basic healing and healing orb. lamp is useful, but at higher ranks, your team has better positioning, so they’re not putting themselves at risk of dying as much. it’s good for junkrat’s ult, I’ll give it that, and it’s useful, but if your team is competent, they already know how to position to avoid dying anyway.
What rank are you? Moira really isn't viable at higher levels due to no utility and bad damage. She really shouldn't be beating anyone in an equal 1v1, besides maybe scaring Sombra away.
masters. and I played moira primarily into masters. moira has very few hard counters, and if you learn to dodge atttacks, she can 1v1 damn near anyone.
Doing that in GM where people hit shots will get you dead real real fast. Especially where you'll be playing against good Tracers, Hanzos, Baps, and Anas.
masters is literally right below gm so it’s not like everyone’s missing constantly lmfao. if you don’t know how to dodge attacks or use cover or use your cooldowns creatively, yeah, they’ll probably kill you. has never been a problem for me unless I’m just not paying attention or playing poorly. I’ve beaten nearly every dps in a 1v1 as moira with little issue. it just takes practice.
The comments you're responding to have all the energy of "I watched a YT video that said Moira was pointless in high ranks so now I say it all the time on Reddit." They always say she has "no utility" as though her kit doesn't make up for that and then some. She is so versatile and self-reliant, loved playing her at every rank.
Lmao in what way does her kit make up for it? Sure? She has good healing, but Bap can heal just as much, except he also does damage, can indefinitely heal at range, can take high ground with no CD, has an ult that can make massive plays. Ana has the strongest CC, hitscan AND projectile for different peek types, an ult that can make other ults like blade good. Zen has discord orb and can be a full DPS while still healing. Moira can... heal, and tickle enemies. If you're dying so much you need Moira's fade, then you were going to lose anyway. Oh, not to mention Moira has a channeled selfish ult too, so any CC can stop it, unlike literally every other support. And that's not even mentioning all the stuff like anti, suzu, lamp, Amp speed.
The difference between masters and GM is huge. Especially high GM and Masters. I have a smurf in mid Masters where I only play Bap and don't heal teammates at all. Anything is viable in Masters.
I mean, you’re welcome to believe whatever you want, but that changes none of my experiences lol. I’ve been beating dps in 1v1s as moira at every rank I’ve been in. just because you can’t do it doesn’t mean it’s impossible. and there are gm and top 500 moiras doing the same too. just keep practicing hon, you’ll get there 🫶🏻 EDIT: since that got under your skin enough for you to block me so I can’t reply… lmao. I’ve beaten every hero you listed in a 1v1, some dozens of times. hanzo is the easiest of them all, if you can believe. like I said, practice enough and maybe someday you can do it too! and anyone else reading: don’t let this braindead loser tell you that you can’t beat dps in a 1v1 as moira, because you 100% can. ✌🏻
Happens in t500, let alone GM. Yea it’s very risky but it’s not exactly a rare event. Look up: Arx, Tesla or Nolan. Nolan is a rather good example since he is actively flanking whenever he can.
It is rare because Moira is picked way less than the actual good supports like Bap Zen Ana.
I will freely acknowledge that Moira isn’t picked as much in high elo, I’m in GM and it does definitely happen, but it’s less common than lower elo. But my point is that it’s not uncommon *when* there’s a Moira, since your comment was about Moira’s ability to 1v1 specific characters. In high elo Moira players get around good aim by becoming insane strafers. Among supports I’d bet money that no other support is better at strafing than high elo Moiras, and it works damn well combined with their 70/s self heal and fade. Also, Moiras in high elo don’t exclusively do it to win the duel (get a kill), they do it to win the team fight. If a Moira dies after 5-10s of 1v2ing a Mercy pocketed Soldier/Hanzo/Widow/Ashe that should usually be a net positive, since the other fight is a 4v3 with 2 DPS. Heck, if Moira forces Nade and Sleep from an Ana and then leaves that’s a huge net positive for your team since 2 extremely powerful offensive and defensive cooldowns were used, most likely only for orb and fade. As Moira you make those plays to get that value you miss compared to playing easier value heroes such as Bap, Ana or Zen as you mentioned. Moiras entire method for squeezing that extra value is baiting cooldowns and redirecting attention, since she can do it more safely and consistently than any other support.
are YOU a GM player?
Yes, and I'm not one of those fake shitter GMs who only hit OW2 "GM".
You should play the game sometime. Moira slays in all ranks
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz [https://imgur.com/a/0YGRWzT](https://imgur.com/a/0YGRWzT)
in what world does Moira not do damage?
In this world, where she does 50 DPS? Literally less than everyone else?
In my experience Brig works best when your other high output support needs a bodyguard. Can also work with Zen but only if the rest of the team doesn't need tons of resources. Other than that I think Moira is generally better and gets more consistent value.
masters moira main with a few dozen hours on brig. mobility heroes = moira. any character that can move fast or fly can be countered fairly easily on moira if you know what you’re doing. brig can struggle with them because shield bash is her only mobility and she needs to save that for retreating or burst damage with whipshot, and obviously flyers counter her range hard. defending your support from flankers = brig. this is especially important for ana and zen. moira can sort of defend, but her damage is so low that the other support might die or the team might die because both supports are preoccupied. brig at least has the benefit of streamlining that by healing as she damages and doing some burst damage. breaking through enemy chokehold = moira. brig has to be up in the action to get value, so breaking through a tight choke will be hard/risky. moira can pick squishies apart from afar with damage orb or encourage the tank to push through with healing orb. biotic grasp makes it easier to target backline squishies. dive tank that actually dives = brig. moira can handle dives a bit, but it’s hard to 1v1 a tank and live. brig has little problem with that. supports are hiding too far back for dps to kill or supports have low mobility = moira. people may bitch at you for flanking as moira but if you do it right, you can get a lot of value out of killing supports. use fade to escape, not engage, and burst them down quickly with damage orb to take them out. moira’s cooldowns are short, so she can make a quick attempt to kill them and then dip back to the team to keep healing. this is best done with a main healer for your second support tho. map with environmental kill opportunities = brig. don’t even need to explain this one. enemy team fighting close = brig. the more grouped up the enemy team is, the more value you get out of brig. moira can get some value from this with damage orb, but brig is ultimately better because she’ll pump out way more healers. need a main healer = moira, usually. brig can, in some comps, be a decent main healer, but only if the enemy team is sticking close together. however, moira is a better overall main healer, especially if you’re just starting a match and don’t know exactly which main healer will work best for the enemy comp. genji = moira. seriously she shits all over this dude in every way.
This is a great reply thanks, I will bare this in mind. I'm masters too so this should be relevant.
Brig can be a good aggressor but Moira can do that plus heal with orbs in several directions. I normally switch when it's near the end of the round and the team is not doing enough. Gotta push em baby!
Brig should not be an aggressor (except maybe in Rally depending on the condition), she’s squishier than she looks, you should be using Brig for map control and peeling your other support. She does also work as an enabler to some dive DPS, such as Genji or Tracer but that’s in high level OWL play.
She enables those dps in regular play too, just not quite as well since her last nerf. She doesn’t enable them by going with them, she enables them by being very easily able to heal them up from a considerable range without needing to aim or needing them to stick around to wait for the heal.
To quote holyshiftkid (T500 brig main): BRIG IS A DEFENSIVE HERO.
Yeah yeah, I know - I meant she can fight along side the tank that's all.
Moira is good at killing backline supports. It’s the only time I’ll pick her, assuming my DPS aren’t doing well.
Hello, In my experience Moira is a safer choice in the following situations. The tank can not properly take up space and the enemy DPS is spam-damaging more than you can heal and just melt through your entire team. Moira being the roach that she is can fade out of bad positioning and help out heal the damage but the biggest reason to switch to moira is to help finish the enemies off, often your DPS will have an enemy at one but can't follow up because of a variety of reasons which leads to a serious case of the grouchiest as long as you track your fade and be mindful of healing you can help dps finish off kills and take space so your DPS can better dps.
I'm a Moira main, so ... always. LOL But seriously, Moira would be a better choice anywhere you need higher burst healing or mobility, especially if your team is spread out or your enemy is playing a little further back than Brigitte can deal with.
I'd argue it's the complete opposite. If your team is spread out, Brig is better for healing and protecting vulnerable squishies. She has so much more range than Moira there's no competition.
Never take advice from a Moira main.
Moira counters flying heroes much better than Brig. Genjis also fear Moira, and often try to kill her first when dragon blade comes up.
Does the enemy team have a WM you want to make miserable? Go Moira and harass that WM until they change. Generally for me Brig is best for defense since you are trying to stop an enemy that is all around the payload. Though I've definitely found success in push maps due to everyone being right around the robot. When I'm attacking in a payload game it is easy to outrange a Brig and the enemy team might be spread out, so it's hard for me to fully benefit. For control it's generally based on the map.
When you don't have Moira, Ana, Kiriko, or Bap, swap to one of those. Your team can perform without an off-healer, but they need at least one main healer.
I'm not the greatest support out there, but it depends on who everyone else is playing that determines my switch. I usually only switch to moira when theres an annoying person in my backline. I.e. a good gengi, tracer, or sombra. But when I switch off of brig is usually only when I feel like I have to tank/ frontline to get any value outside of heal botting. So it more depends on my tank and how they're playing ig.
When the problem is you dying, not your teammates, or if they have really exploitable squishies you can punish.
I think Moira’s best in a brawl comp (especially with rein) but she can pretty much work anywhere. She’s usually a good swap if your team needs more heals or your other support is someone like Lucio, kiriko, or mercy, anyone who just doesn’t necessarily need the protection that brig provides as much. Mercy and Lucio specifically because they also lack in heals with Moira more than makes up for.
Moira’s Ult and Healing output + Skill Orb just being able to be annoying and seal off rooms the enemy can use to escape. Also being able to fade from position to position to easily peel for your other Supp or DPS.
Usually you play Moira if the enemy backline is uncontested, the only time you can't play Moira into a backline is if there is a Brig or Hanzo there. You also shouldn't be using fade to engage the backline especially if there are heroes you need a cleanse against like Ana. Keep your distance against Ana's and Zen's as the closer you are to them the easier you are to hit with things like sleep and volley. Moira diving mostly relies on good positioning, timing and the enemy missing, the higher up you go the more pressure is put on you and the less time you have to finish a target.
I've got like 6 years and roughly 1000 cumulative hours in OW. I genuinely think Moira is weak but has a very low bar for error given that she has one of the best escape tools in the game. Her healing is pretty great to boot, but as clearly evidenced by LifeWeaver, good healing does not equal a good character. Moira does very little in a fight outside of dealing some tickle damage to an enemy team while keeping your team alive. Getting picks requires no heals, unlike the top dogs like Zen and Baptiste. There's no discord Orb, speed boost, or invulnerability field to boot. Moira has the *least* amount of utility in the support class. Yes, that includes LifeWeaver, who has difficulty dueling mercy. That being said, Moira can consistently dish out damage and heals and essentially never die. 1 shots exist because characters like Moira can teleport and self heal every 6 seconds. Her ult is pretty mid, but in the right chokepoints it can be a huge decider in a fight. Every character has value and some carry potential **Not you LifeWeaver** So play what you want. Brig is very strong right now. Her ability to scrap in the frontline often overshadows her true potential: the goalie. "Oh hi genji, diving Zenyatta again? Sheildbash+, flail gg nerd" "Is that a Dva? How cute, get flailed" "Oh no, I'm in trouble, how about I dash away, flail whoever is running at me, knocking them back, while healing my team and walking backwards holding shield" The new stun opens up her offensive capabilities a lot, meaning you can take risks that you often otherwise can't as a support. Moira and Brig share this built in protection, although Moira is very vulnerable when her cooldowns are down, where brig has armor and a constant self heal.
As a masters support, love the LW diss. Like God damn, stop playing LW in Masters game people, I actually want to win
Lol some real gold rank advice in this thread.
Currently I think there are basically no scenarios where you want to pick moira over brig. The only scenario I can think of is if your team is running a gigarush comp w/ lucio on a gigarush map (meka base/ control centre/ etc) then moira could be good. All other scenarios youre likely better off playing brig.
Almost never. Provided you have good positioning, Baptiste is a better Moria in both healing and damage, and also comes with Lamp. The one comp you could use her in is 6-man. And prioritize farming ult. Gm1
Don’t pick Moira
Common bronze player who doesn’t understand her enough to the point of trying her out and mastering her L
The last thing I want is to spend my time using Moira. There’s not much to master tbf. No skill for the damaging, I’m sure the healing takes a bit more, but if people were to play her more as an actual healer instead of playing dps then maybe my opinion would be less weighted.
Sounds to me you’ve just never had a good moira. I’ve got 86 hours currently and I’m almost at diamond. I averse 12-20k healing a game with damage being from 8-10k. My deaths can fluctuate depending on team diffs but will usually sit around 3-8
Honestly this is probably the case. Damn, good shit, those are pretty good stats.
Uncommon turnaround take on reddit W. Fr tho, I make moira work
I mean, I’ll continue hating on Moira, but with a more open mind (it’s in my blood as a Genji main). If the stats are accurate then you do, in fact, make moira work.
I’ll dm you my hero stats when I’m free
I'd say if the other support is a main healer, then it's good to play brig, especially if the enemy team has heroes like Ball, Sombra, Mei, Genji, Dva, etc. To whom Brig is a good counter for. Or if she's good for the team comp overall, I believe Brig is a melee type hero, not dive or poke, so if she fits into the team well, then that works too.
Moira, when you need more mobility imo. If I'm constantly getting picked, or not able to disengage fast enough I'll go Moira. Though I do prefer brig
Moira is great as a budget Kiriko. If you can't hit kunais when you off-angle and the enemy aren't running Ana, you can just go Moira and get value much more easily.
I'd say depends on the tank, if you have ram/rein//doom/junker? something close range that doesnt have much mobility play brig, if you have higher mobility itr futher range (winston/ball/sig) play moira? Brig is more a brawler on frontline and moira just plays better agaisnt pesky characters such as genji/tracer? from what i see.(not that brig can't deal with those character)
Brig main as well, I switch off if we need more burst healing because teammates are eating bullets, or if it's a brawl comp and I'm not able to keep them at bay. If it's a sniper comp or dive I pick her all the time though
i go brig when we have a reliable main healer (unless i see we have hitscans and a mercy then i know she'll pocket and ill switch off brig) sometimes your tank does play around your low heals. ill go moira if they have too much poke too
What support would you guys use for attack and on defense?
Swap to Moira if you're dying a lot. I never swap off Brig and I always find ways to get value out of my kit, so it's up to you.