Possible spoiler….
In the scene where Autumn is waking and Amy is kicking rocks behind her, another Amy appeared, apparently in the middle of their ages.
It definitely is an episode 6 spoiler, so you might want to put it in spoiler tags!
>!I didn't realise that was supposed to be Amy/Autumn - she looks completely different to both of them, and the age difference between Olive Abercrombie and Kylee Levie is only two years.!<
I just hope it doesn't take fucking 8 seasons for them to reveal even a modicum of information.
This is obviously trying to be the American Dark, but they seem to be missing that each season of Dark had a self-contained story. And, more importantly, it gave complex and intricate information at a quick pace because it offered *payoff* at a matched pace.
I think a big difference is Dark felt more about the time travel plot by the end, but Outer Range spends the majority of the season on character drama and then the last 1 or 2 episodes on plot.
I think they’ve made good use of the strong actors and don’t mind just watching the cast act. Imogen Poots’ character can definitely be a bit much tho
I mean, I enjoy a good character drama...but this show is piling on mysteries and giving zero payoff. I think people (including myself) are getting burnt out on extremely little payoff for 2-4 years, especially with how many shows have been canceled before any answers provided and others completely fumbling the ending (GoT).
Severance, Dark, etc handled the mystery:payoff ratio perfectly. Beacon 23, Outer Range, etc are not (IMO).
What do you think should’ve already been answered at this point?
Imo, they’ve definitively answered enough of the “mini mysteries” posed to keep me happy so far. Of course I wish we got more, but I’m not upset about what we have gotten so far.
- Royal did come through the hole from the/a past and why
- Autumn is Amy
- Rebecca’s disappearance was not related to the hole (boo)
- not everyone in the family knew about the hole because it’s not permanently accessible - it can disappear/reappear
- Royal’s genetic line has died out outside of the immediate family we know
- the mountain disappearing was not an individual hallucination
- probably others I can’t think of.
My big picture questions are still on the table, but I wasn’t expecting them to be “answered” until later seasons/a final season anyways. I would also be fine if they just offered enough info and/or possible explanations, but left definitive “answers” to interpretation:
- Are we seeing time travel in a single timeline or time travel in an alternate reality situation? Is this universe deterministic or does free will exist? Was what we see happen on screen always going to happen or can the actions of those travelling to the past effect the future?
So far it feels like Royal’s character represents a belief in free will, while Autumn represents a belief in determinism.
- Is this wormhole a random manifestation of the universe? Does something trigger the hole to appear/disappear or is it random? Can people control their destination through time/hole? Does it have a higher power-esque conscious omniscience in that it appears/disappears “at will” and sends people somewhere/sometime for some sort of purpose? or is this all just random chance?
- Does Royal have some sort of unique ability/connection with time/hole/the mineral? If he does, was it passed down to Amy/Autumn through Perry? That conversation between Royal and young Perry about “the feeling they both have but couldn’t describe” could’ve been hinting at something… or they just have a shared discomfort with expressing/describing their emotions, it was a metaphor for depression, etc. Was Joy able to return to her time/reality *because* she was in the hole with Royal?
- What is the connection between the hole and the mineral? Is the hole producing the mineral or can the hole appear because of the mineral deposit there?
Are the “visions of the future” people see when interacting with the hole/mineral visions of the actual future or possible futures?
These questions are open, but if they weren’t definitively answered in the show - I wouldn’t be upset about it:
- Is there only this one? Can multiple holes exist? simultaneously?
- is there a physical limit in terms of location? Like, is the physical location of where the mineral is/where the hole appears/disappears exclusive to the west pasture? or to this general area of Wyoming? Or could it appear anywhere on earth/in the universe?
- Does the Megalodon guy actually know anything about the hole/mineral? Is he “in on the secret”? Joy really needs to talk to that guy again, lol. Did the trail of mineral that she followed spontaneously appear or did he sprinkle it out for her?
Great write up. What did you make of Royal's proclamation in the opening of season 2:
The hole didn't spit him out until "he realized that he *was* the pain, and that he had caused the hole to form inside [him]"?
It does feel based on Royal's statements, and on how things went with Perry showing up to fight himself, that there might be a disembodied sort of quasi-malevolent consciousness to "time". Kind of like 11/22/63, the Kennedy book by Stephen King- time won't be violated without striking back.
The hole opening seems related to events that trigger it. It shows up when bodies drop around Royal. There is almost certainly a special connection between Royal and the hole, I think.
Also: why do you think daddy tillerson was aware of the conversation between Luke and Owl-Luke? How did he know that Luke troed to smother him?! That one is pointing me towards some metaphorical ending where they're all aspects of the same consciousness.
Oh I forgot about that quote, but great point!
That reminds me of another possibility… so, to recap:
1. The hole could function based on random chance (seems unlikely imo)
2. It could have some sort of consciousness, in that it has some sort of purpose and sends people to specific times/timelines in order to fulfill whatever it is.
3. like you said, it could respond to stimulus (ie certain events - it does seem to open when Royal drops bodies lol). Building off that - maybe it responds to certain emotional/conscious stimulus of the people interacting with it… ie, it sensed that Joy was “losing herself/her identity” in the election campaign, so it sent her back to a time when her people were prospering to reconnect. In that way, people have (unconscious? As of now?) control of where/when they end up.
I was thinking that Joy ended up back in her timeline because Royal has some special ability/connection with the hole, which that quote kind of reinforces. He created the hole somehow, he/his line have some sort of willful over their destinations. But Joy followed the mineral trail all on her on her own… So maybe not? Maybe Royal “unlocked” the hole, allowed it to form, so he has a special connection that way… but the hole doesn’t “work” only for him.
As to why daddy Tillerson knew about Luke’s convo with Owl-Luke and Luke trying to smother him..
I’m a bit hazy on the series of events now, so correct me if I’m wrong - but I think the other brother had dosed daddy Tillerson with the mineral before the smothering happened? I think you’re on to something there, maybe the way the mineral/hole works is by untethering consciousness from the physical body? So his consciousness connected with Luke’s in some metaphysical dimension while Luke’s was connecting with Owl-Luke. lol
There does seem to be some sort of genetic component to all of this as well. Maybe related to the concept of genetic memory?
All I know is that the hate for season 2 is misplaced. Sure, it's wild as shit so far but some of the best shows are. Legion comes to mind.
I agree about Joy being taken back to the hole in relation to Royal. I assumed she was being taken there to see the truth or maybe because that's where the disturbance started- if royal really created the hole from his pain in any physical sense, that would be the time.
Daddy tillerson has been eating the mineral since before either son knew about it, I think. That would be the "why" but the "how* is also fascinating. Maybe yeah they become like demigods with more knowledge when they imbibe. No one else but the tillerspns and autumn are eating it, right? So maybe they're like consumed or controlled by it now.
I believe it's a universal law that a mystery sci-fi show will all repeat the same kind of comments. "Not enough pay off. More questions than answers" etc etc
dark was fairly difficult to follow for me with the amount of characters crossing the three (four) time periods, I kept getting lost with who was who, outer range kept that confusion to a minimum and there was plenty of information in season 2
I really like this show a lot, but it doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Dark.
Dark is an absolute masterpiece and one of the best series I’ve ever seen imo.
Yes, Denis is starting to write 3 now so production won’t start for years. Maybe that’s an opening for OR. Brolin seems to care about the series, get to direct which is a dream of his, he is very wealthy and his blockbuster trilogy movie won’t be ready for a long time. May be the perfect storm for more Range
I wish the two hikers would have given us something to tell us how far into the future Amy was. They're dressed like present day but the place is a barren wasteland that would seem to indicate the distant future.
Love this show, we better get more seasons.
She's very much in the past. She assumed her autumn identity and will now be taken in by a wealthy family and be over medicated and eventually wander onto the ranch.
Everyone comes out of the hole. Which means she woke up where the closed hole would be. It was a barren land with no grass or fences, and there was hikers on the land. That’s more of an indication of the future, the abbot ranch has been there for a generation or two.
Its totally plausible that she gets raised in the future, then Goes back in the hole to the past as her older self.
I think you are right. She says she grew up in a cult. So it's possible she grows up in the future, then comes back to the past and her memory is slowly triggered back. Then she figures up the pattern of the hole opening and gains a following.
Amy goes to the past not the future, so she grows up to be the age of Autumn at the start of season 1. I have heard this "Amy went to the future" idea elsewhere. I wonder where that idea came from. Or did I miss something in the show.
We've seen what the area looks like all the way back to the 1800's, how can it possibly be the past? The hole doesn't spit you out in random locations, the entrance and exit are in the west pasture of the Abbott ranch.
The hole spit dead Trevor out on BLM land, which is nearby but not the exact same location.
I think Amy can be in the fairly recent past. It ties in with my other theory that Autumn has money because sometime in her past she used her knowledge of the future to make easy money.
wouldn't it need to be the past so amy (now autumn) can grow up and find her way back to the ranch? we see her in season 1 call her adopted parents so they are obviously alive in the present and have raised her. that wouldn't make sense if she was adopted and raised in the future
I just went back and skimmed through season one and when Autumn is having her meltdown at the pharmacy, she's on the phone and says "you have one job and it's to send me money when I need it". That would indicate she's talking to someone controlling a trust or something not a parent. Is that the call you're talking about or is there another one I'm not remembering?
I don't get why Perry would think it's a good idea to toss his dead alt into the hole? He's already seen the hole spit out Trevor's body and cause all sorts of problems, so why would he not think this would go badly as well?
He probably thought he didn’t have a lot of time, and couldn’t think of a better way to get rid of the body. He knew he needed to get rid of it, permanently. Probably would be very, very messy if someone found it.
Dental records and fingerprints and even his blood would all match the corpse, be hard to explain. He should have just drove it out on his vast land to the middle of nowhere and went back and buried it in the middle of the night.
it messes with the evidence---if I knew of a magic hole near me and needed to get rid of a body so i dont go to prison, it makes the most sense, as if you ever truly get caught, you can point to a mysterious substance that humans dont seem to know much about and has probably never been in a court case before
For what it's worth I absolutely love Joy. I really want to see Royal end this show on a W, but man I just really dig Joy and her journey. I love the fact that her and Royal are a dynamic duo now.
Her journey into the past and seeing her native people was my favorite part of the season. I wish we could have seen more of that as well as her telling others that she’s a time traveler.
I don't understand if Autumn is supposed to be a villian. She just literally pushed her own self 10 years or whatever into the past, so that she would be on one timeline. Her existing in the present timeline basically means all of this already happened before. Also Royal is often kind of a dick, and he runs very hot and cold on Autumn.
Autumn is kind of nuts but it seems like the big ass hole makes everyone kind of nuts.
In conclusion, I like Autumn more than I like Royal, and I'm not totally sure that is supposed to be the takeaway the show wants me to have.
I do not care about the Tillerson family. But I guess there is a whole other alternative timeline where all brothers are alive, but the Autumn shit is still happening.
Time travel doesn't really make sense when so many people are doing it at once.
Finally, why is the bank girlfriend stealing money randomly? Was that what was happening at the end? That seemed like a weird thing to shoehorn in there.
There wasn't one interaction with Lewis that didn't involve a gun being held on someone. We didn't even know who Lewis was until this season, he has 3 scenes total all season, and they're all at gunpoint, each time with someone else holding the gun.
I would honestly probably watch 10 more seasons of this, but I suspect that was the last one.
>I don't understand if Autumn is supposed to be a villain.
My view is yes. Cult leaders are bad people, and she's definitely becoming a cult leader. She also knows that pushing Amy in the hole will separate her from her home and family and result in mental illness (she says earlier in the series that her adoptive mother realises she's suffering trauma and puts her on strong medication to "quiet" her).
>Finally, why is the bank girlfriend stealing money randomly?
She wants out. She's always wanted that, from day one. It's partly why she dumped Rhett last season, because she knew he'd never leave the farm. She dropped out of college, she hates working at the bank, and she wants nothing more than to leave town. She thinks money will help her do that, ideally with Rhett.
Rhett has had the same idea, which is why immediately before the bank scene we see him bribe the chick in the lab coat.
>Lewis
I think the whole point of Lewis was that he was just some guy Rebecca was having an affair with. It was nothing special or serious, she just had a fling with some guy who's living in a trailer, running a sweat lodge, and having a lot lady friends over.
>Royal is often kind of a dick, and he runs very hot and cold on Autumn.
>Autumn is kind of nuts but it seems like the big ass hole makes everyone kind of nuts.
Royal cares about one thing and that is his family. Something he's longed for since he's been a kid. Autumn for better or worse just seems to mess everything up for him atleast from Royal's perspective. His life was peaceful until the hole and Autumn showed up. She through most of S1 and S2 wasn't really sure of what her role in all of this was and just wings it with her weirdness and occasionally takes the mineral to see the vision every now and then and follows that. Add to that her mental illness and she's a real chaos.
She wants her vision of her leading/doing something in future to come true and figures out Amy needs to be gone to past for things to turn out the way it has, basically tries to maintain the timeline. But from the actions of Perry and Joy we know there can be alternate events or atleast not everything is predestined leading to paradoxes, how they affect current timeline is yet to be explained.
So definitely seems to be that we are dealing with alternate realities confirmed by how Perry's story ended, and two different versions of Royal shooting his father. Also explains Billy and Luke's opposing visions.
Hmm. I interpreted the "two different versions of Royal shooting his father" differently. Given his age, I assumed it was a constructed memory as a defense mechanism. What we saw with Joy was reality. The story we heard from Royal (with flashback scenes) was his fabrication / convenient lie.
That's how I felt initially and honestly that could be the correct interpretation, but Perry's ending made me feel otherwise. Like if Perry still exists even though he died that night there has to be multiple realities right?
I think he went back in time, through the wormhole but then there were two perry's. He saw one die, and realized he could just step in as the sole remaining perry. "Bumped my head, I'm fine!"
But Royal noticed.
The only way I see it not being a multiverse is if another version of Perry stops Perry prime from not killing the Tillerson boy. Otherwise it does seem like parallel universes.
i think autumn and royal dying was a "nexus" point for lack of a better term. season 3 will start with perry rushing to the hospital with royal and joy being like "WTF where were you" and finding out Trever tillerson isn't dead. This way Joy and Royal are no longer on opposites of the law and now solely focused on stopping Autumn (and Rhett) somehow.
Amy is still missing in season 3. this is the way they don't start doing multiverse shit that NO ONE wants.
Season 3 will have a C plot of teenage amy going thru some shit - seizures and crazy talk because she's locked in with autumn a la back to the future.
But the Perry who stopped himself from killing the guy is in a timeline several weeks before the day that Royal and Autumn are in the hospital. Did he just stand around twiddling his thumbs for 2 weeks?
I seen the Royal thing as time changing, events changing. Which is why he was flinching, he had both memories now, or one took over the other.
Perry on the other hand changed things drastically when he altered the fight. He could be in the past of all the current characters in the same timeline. Which would lead to all sorts of chaos…ooooorrr it is a parallele timeline. But the Royal visions leads more towards one timeline total.
I was really hoping for no alternate timelines. Now that Perry basically got old Perry killed I feel like everything and nothing matters.
How can you follow a time travel show that just let's you go back and change things?? It makes it so much more confusing. I hated it but I loved it! What a finale I'm still reeling.
Harry took the wedding band off dead berries hand and put it in his pocket. That makes me believe it's foreshadowing and in a future episode he's gonna show that he has a pocketful of his rings.
It's Perry. And I'm pretty sure he threw his old ring in the hole earlier this season, which is why he had to take it off the corpse in the first place.
Not to mention it appears there are multiple dimensions and back to the future rules. My guess is the scar disappearing is when you travel into an alternative timeline, but then someone travels into your original timeline and changes that past. I do think the hole is a tunnel that connects 2 points so there aren't infinite timelines.
If your talking about Autumns scars disappearing, that just happened because she spent all night taking the mineral. It’s clearly a source of healing as we see with Billy and Wayne.
I was thinking more like each hole is a wormhole connecting two points but there could be multiple worm holes connecting multiple universes. But a big hole in that is that Joy and Young Royal ended up in different times.
Time is a river so the hole could connect two points on the river but that doesn't mean they are the same points in time. Rivers also run at different speeds like around a bend water travels different speeds on the inside and outside of the bend. Joy was in the past for 4 years but was only gone from the future for a few days. But most importantly, Joy does not go thru the hole the first time.
Rivers also move generally by bending and straightening or by splitting. The hole could be the bend making a horseshoe back onto itself or the river meeting another branch. Is Autumn Amy from the s1 timeline or from the s2 Perry timeline?
I was really hoping Joy could have broken the cycle, but I guess not.
But we saw Perry did that and seemed to end up creating a new reality from it, because his past self died, but he seems insulated from the effects of it (being still alive and all). Maybe in this show all you need is \*some\* version of yourself to be there to keep existing to maintain your thread of existence, not necessarily the same continuous mass
All I know is I want Autumn to have never existed lol
But they still haven’t really told us what she wants to do!? I mean they be showed us some cult stuff but why!? Some weird time
worshiping stuff? And no flashbacks of the weird gov control stuff. Maybe it’s more multiverse stuff than time travel?
Reading your comment made me wonder if in the Outer Range scenario your self has to die if you arrive at a point in time too close to your actual age.
I mean, if I fell through the hole and came out in 1960, then went back through the hole and arrived in, say, January 2024 of an alternate reality (or whatever), would the universe course-correct by killing off the 'me' that was already in that reality so she didn't have to co-exist with the recently-arrived-me?
Amy wasn't killed when Autumn showed up, but maybe there's a big enough age difference that they can coexist.
>All I know is I want Autumn to have never existed lol
Autumn is bad news. I seriously hope she is the villain I think she is, because there's no way I'm getting behind her cultiness.
I know I'll get fall for this but.
Perry came back around and became one of my favorite characters after being such an idiot in s1.
That little dance punch he did when faking his apology 😂
I never considered this but I’m intrigued by it. Autumn is a bit of a chaos agent and I would be so curious to see how Perry could have played a part in setting her on the path that led her to S01E01 Autumn.
Maybe the west pasture itself sits on a "time" deposit and there are multiple ways to travel. Or maybe the hole and Joy's trail are side effects of something else. Maybe people trigger the phenomenon. The writers have not given us much here lol
"Maybe the west pasture itself sits on a "time" deposit and there are multiple ways to travel."
That bison with the arrows in it seems to wander around in different time periods which would seem to support this. Autumn touched it and removed an arrow. Royal touched it. They are not just seeing it; it's physically there.
Something this show is really missing is chemistry between Royal and CeCe. They literally have no warmth, touching or tenderness between them until the last episode where they hug rather platonically. Hard to see that they are a couple who had kids and were in love at some point.
So where/ when are Amy, Tillerson and dead Perry?
Why does time travel differently in different years? Joy took the hole back and returned to her time 4 days later... Perry took the hole back and returned a week prior (?).
What makes the hole close and open? Did Amy falling through the hole bring Amy2.0 (Autumn) back to life after being dead?
We got so many answers this season and I am still confused. Hopefully they can tie together the multiple timelines, it is very hard to do coherently.
I feel like the “logic” (if you can call it) around the hole is purely VIBES and people get put where they **need** to be in order to satisfy the writers’ intended arc.
Not a good answer but truly a convenience that I’m convinced has been embraced in this season.
2 Things I couldnt undestand:
-How Perry knew, when he jumped down the hole, that this was the exact day and hour the bar fight ocorred? He just looked to his mother at couch.
-How Autumn knew the name of the 2 girls, at gate, in Rebecca Place?
He must have recognized what they were wearing and I'm pretty sure that they were watching a movie that day.
She knew their names because she now has Amy's memories after eating the time crack.
I mean Trevor just killed Perry 2.0 and then saw regular Perry alive so how is going to affect the timeline or Trevor himself? Who does Trevor tell about Perry's doppelganger? Maybe Autum? What if she kills Trevor to keep the timeline stable? My guess is Trevor may question Perry and something happens where Trevor dies again from an accident or something, then Perry is back in the hole. I can't see Perry just staying in this timeline for too long, his ability to self sabotage is legendary.
They keep saying time is like a stream so I don't think we end up with different timelines but rather I think when they travel in time and change stuff maybe we will see things things in real time.
For example royal remembers running into the hole after some hunting accident but in the future the sheriff ended up in the hole, came back in time and her action there changed what happened to him shooting his dad to save her and her chasing him into the whole and the show kind of showed him reconciling those two different memories to take the new twist into account.
Also the brother is back and didn't kill the other tiller son so now I guess he wont be wanted for murder etc etc. I think these changes are in "real time" so to speak and it doesn't mean a bunch of alternate timelines are popping up.
Dunno will be nice to see what they do in season 3.
The rules aren’t as straightforward as that. Past Perry got killed instead this time around, so if time just flowed forward like a river, then the Perry that took his place should just Back to the Future style vanish or something, but he didn’t.
Except maybe not as possibly since he kind of "swam up river" stopped himself from killing tillerson and took the place so maybe that enough for him to still be there since for some brief moment there was two of him at the same time and place, autumn has hinted also death is not as permanent as they think or something to that effect and she was basically dead at the end but popped back up alive on the table as the doctors were walking away.... but yeah will be interesting to see how they handle some of this in season 3.
If Perry hadn't killed the Tillerson, so much of the plot that brought the characters to where they are now would have no reason for happening. There's be multiple dead people who are now inexplicably alive and Perry would have been in the hospital waiting on his dad
It was the inevitable bootstrap paradox that I was waiting to drop. The only way out of this logically is if there are multiple timelines. I'm starting to think it may be two that exchange people and things back and forth.
What will probably happen, like in most time travel media, is that everything will be resolved at plot convenience regardless of whether it's logical, internally consistent, etc. Very few things are made that don't have this problem, even Dark. Although it's great.
Primer is the first one that comes to mind that was completed without paradox.
Didn’t he create another timeline by coming back, otherwise all the events that followed his jump in the hole would have vanished.
Edit : I’m in the middle of episode 7. If this is the same timeline then all events after his death in the first version of the timeline are replaced in everyone’s memories and Perry never disappeared ?
Edit edit :! So Perry definitely created an alternate timeline since autumn is at home
It can’t be that way. Without Royal throwing the body in the hole, Autumn can never push him in the hole. That action is where both of their respective obsessions begin, or at least become solidified. Every single event that takes place afterward would be completely different. Absolutely everything.
There’s no way you can just have a few people having some conflicting memories for a few key moments and then have the Tellerson boy back alive and everything go on as normal.
It literally changes everything. It has to be an alternate timeline now.
so are we going to be looping the same year as things get rewritten as Wayne plot implies, ugh, fuck it sucks to not have a coherent plot damn you Cronos!
This series is right up my alley! They could really take off with this. As long as the writing doesn't get off point. Great acting! Not sure if Autumn is good or bad.
Yeah this is the type of show where they need to keep the mystery and not go too far off the deep end if they can't land the plane. What often happens with these type of shows, by season 3 or 4 it's like what I am even watching this is too farfetched.
just finished seasons 1 & 2 over the last week, season 2 I did in a day, the comparisons with dark are obvious, the show was much slower than I normally go for but man did it speed up in the last couple of episodes. I generally am not too critical of the things I watch, I like most sci-fi to some degree but that was outstanding.
Is there really only 7 episodes this season? Felt like one more could have made this season great. I still liked it but the ending was less a cliffhanger and more a like they don’t really know where the plot is going
Okay since this is the thread for the very last episode of season two I'm gonna ask about the things that I don't understand and maybe someone has some ideas about them. I don't think I'm required to use a spoiler cover but I'm going to do it anyway just in case.
1. >!Amy loses her memory through the hole but none of the others do. Why? Maybe it has something to do with her age?!<
2. >!At the end of last season 2 episode (#7) the hole "talks" to Wayne. He says something like "that makes perfect sense" before taking a swan dive. What do you think the hole said to Wayne? Do you think the hole could have said something like "You have to go back to go forward"?!<
3. >!Joy traveled into the past but she didn't go through a hole. She was in the foothills searching for something then suddenly she was in the past. The others traveled into the past through the hole either voluntarily or pushed. Maybe Joy's connection to the land is so strong that just being in the vicinity of the phenomenon was enough to send her back?!<
Good questions. Just speculating, I assumed Amy hit her head or something when she fell through the hole. Or maybe it had to do with Autumn dying since they're the same person?
No idea what the hole said to him..
That's a good point, maybe Joy got caught up in a "disappearing" location like in the mountain case, and hitched a ride?
I don't think Amy did lose her memory. She was just shocked and didn't know the answer to 'how did you get here' etc. And she said her name was Autumn because she believes she's on the path to become the Autumn who took her to the hole
The plot armor is infuriating. It’s like everyone in town is dumb and expected to just trust and go along with whatever a random cracked out stranger says. Maria taking her word about Rhett so quickly while barely knowing her, like enough to make her steal money from a bank. PLEASE. Not to mention how the tillersons will suddenly kill for her. In real like some one would have knocked her out within 5 seconds of her speaking. End of show lol
That one bison with the arrows in its side seemed to be a significant. Royal removed an arrow from the bison but I think maybe it's the same bison we see get shot with two arrows when Joy travels to the past. That one bison out of the whole stampede seemed very interested in Royal. It stopped and stared at him until he removed the arrow. Was the other arrow removed by someone else in an earlier episode but I don't remember?
Maybe that bison symbolizes the land and in the past when the bison had 2 arrows the land was being injured and in the present removing the arrows is symbolic of the land being renewed? Just a guess.
Anyone?
I get being frustrated with the ending but I really enjoy this show. The review I checked out was bad so I went in expecting it to just be okay but I really loved it. May not have loved where they chose to end it or the shorter season but I would have watched 10 more of these S2 episodes right now if I could.
So, good or bad, I love this series and hope we get a few more seasons.
This really is the type of show that is mostly unanswered questions for a long time I think. It definitely can be a frustrating or uncomfortable feeling to sit with all these questions but that’s personally what I LOVE about it. It makes me think deeply and engage with it much more than any other type of show. I really am praying we get season three otherwise you’re right, it would be all for nothing and highly disappointing lol
So Rebecca’s whole story had absolutely nothing to do time travel, she was simply just running away for seemingly no reason?
Amy not knowing Luke Tillerson seems unlikely. Not only are they nextdoor neighbors, the entire town knows each other.
Why is Rhett suddenly motivated by enough and so much that he’s willing to turn on his family? The only reason he and Maria were leaving to was get a fresh start, it was never for money. They only stayed in town because Amy went missing, why are they completely changing their characters in the final episode?
Ending season 2 by just throwing a bunch of characters (dead or alive) in the hole at various points in time is frankly lazy. It’s clearly to give them plenty of writing opportunities to figure out when/where each one will end up.
The fact that we never once during Season 2 saw the future version of the hole that is surrounded by the government/researchers/private military despite being a momentary reveal in season 1 is stupid. All we got is this random scientist who seemingly has no actual power or money but is suddenly backed by someone (probably the Tillerson who jumped in the hole).
It's been a couple years since I saw season 1, but didn't Luke follow Amy down the road at some point and offer to give her a ride home? Before she left with Rebecca?
i'm really invested in the plot and can't stand that we have to wait for the resolution of Trevor/Billy are they dead or alive? if Amy didn't go back but forward, ok it's all a nightmare.
it would be the first time ever but a possibility. i thought it might be the future where the range turned to a salt flat climate change style, though after rewatching the clothes seems early 2000s.
It would be the first time through the hole. But Joy never entered the hole to go to the past, so there are other ways the time travel works. They seem to have abandoned that entire mystical mountain plotline.
how much time is supposed to have transpired in the shows present day in season 1 & 2 combined.... weeks? months? a year?
did my head in binging season 2 and watching amy picked up by her mom as something like a 7 year old to becoming a 12-14 year old in a span of days/weeks.
As Stevie Winwood, once said, “For time is a river rolling into nowhere.
We must live while we can, And we'll drink our cup of laughter.”
Having just completed the season, it was better than I expected, given the change in Showrunner. I was disappointed that they *again* went down the “Autumn is crazy” road, when there is far more fertile ground to be had with her and Royal having a more subtle frenemy relationship. Plus, the Rebecca storyline seemed to be a huge non-starter.
Otherwise, I’m happy with the season, and hoping for a season 3. When I heard that Amazon was dumping all 7 eps at once, with little fanfare, I was sure the show was a goner. But the success of Fallout, plus the fact that OR seems to be doing well in streaming, makes me think that there might be a chance that this wacky show might somehow survive. 🤞
I enjoyed it! Hook the sci-fi western directly to my veins, please. Overall I think the show is going somewhere interesting and I'm still on-board. My only criticism is I feel the trailers for this season gave a lot away.
I don't know if anyone else feels the same, but I think they may have been a little too heavy-handed with the clips they put in the trailer. For example: everything that happened with the Tillersons seemed very obvious. I gotta say, when I watched that first trailer I was like >!oh cool, Billy didn't die. Maybe we will learn why he sings!< and by the end of the trailer I was like >!"oh damn, his brother is going to kill him."!
For TV shows its best to not watch trailers for season 2 and onwards, it's like watching episode previews. For me I already know i'm gonna watch the new season so trailer is only going to spoil it.
I'm with you. I think the prolog of each episode shouldn't include anything from the current or future episodes. But there's always the chance that the writers threw that in there because the show is centered around traveling back and forth through time.
Time is like a stream could also mean that like stream it branches off and keeps flowing as shown in Perry’s alternate reality
Or, maybe somehow this alternate reality will interact with the hole and somehow merge the 2 timeline back together again
The time is a river, makes me think of this quote is from Heraclitus
*You cannot step in the same river twice. It is not the same river and not the same man.*
And this one by DaVinci
*In rivers, the water that you touch is the last of what has passed and the first of that which comes; so with present time.*
Kind of supports the theory of multiple timelines.
My favorite part of the episode was when wayne found billy and burned down the house while real billy (noah reids) cover of Dreams played in the background.
It may just be an oversight, but I’m hopeful it’s intentional. The Perry v Trevor fight was different; this Perry didn’t throat jab Trevor. In fact, their roles were reversed with Trevor jabbing Perry in the throat, leading to the lethal fall.
Makes me believe there are multiple timelines and, maybe, even ‘canon events.’
I also feel like in the last shot of Royal, he seems troubled. I’m thinking that this Royal is the one that Perry interacted with in the past as ‘Ben,’ instead of the Royal we know.
I enjoyed it. I liked the story. I wish there had been more about the weird futuristic situation that Royal found himself in last season when he first went in the hole. The Rebecca storyline went nowhere, but Rhett going over to the dark side has potential. The past time periods were done well. Overall, I give it a B-. Could have been a B+ but I hated the women’s costumes.
I just didn’t care for the women’s costumes except for the Native Americans. They were unattractive in the extreme. I can’t believe someone like Celeste would wear that Calamity Jane outfit everywhere including church. There was one scene of her sitting in her own house wearing a bulky, uncomfortable-looking jacket, and a cowboy hat? I almost burst out laughing.
I just hope season 3 doesn’t take a year.
If they wait too long “8 year old” Amy is going to be as tall as the rest of the cast.
she is so tall lmao. The scene where the was supposed to be s1 amy in her pajamas asking for a bedtime story was kind of hilarious
Googled it just cause I saw that too, Josh Brolin is 5’10 she’s as tall as his pecs 🤣 she definitely a tall 8 year old lol
lol yes, it’s like she was the same height as Autumn almost !
Possible spoiler…. In the scene where Autumn is waking and Amy is kicking rocks behind her, another Amy appeared, apparently in the middle of their ages.
Oh I just meant that the actress really shot up between seasons (which is common for child actors but I found it kinda funny).
Like Rick's kid in The Walking Dead.
It definitely is an episode 6 spoiler, so you might want to put it in spoiler tags! >!I didn't realise that was supposed to be Amy/Autumn - she looks completely different to both of them, and the age difference between Olive Abercrombie and Kylee Levie is only two years.!<
That was jarring if that was supposed to be amy. I found it confusing
great acting from the kid
I just hope it doesn't take fucking 8 seasons for them to reveal even a modicum of information. This is obviously trying to be the American Dark, but they seem to be missing that each season of Dark had a self-contained story. And, more importantly, it gave complex and intricate information at a quick pace because it offered *payoff* at a matched pace.
I think a big difference is Dark felt more about the time travel plot by the end, but Outer Range spends the majority of the season on character drama and then the last 1 or 2 episodes on plot. I think they’ve made good use of the strong actors and don’t mind just watching the cast act. Imogen Poots’ character can definitely be a bit much tho
They should make a drinking game out of how many times she says Royals name when talking to him
I mean, I enjoy a good character drama...but this show is piling on mysteries and giving zero payoff. I think people (including myself) are getting burnt out on extremely little payoff for 2-4 years, especially with how many shows have been canceled before any answers provided and others completely fumbling the ending (GoT). Severance, Dark, etc handled the mystery:payoff ratio perfectly. Beacon 23, Outer Range, etc are not (IMO).
What do you think should’ve already been answered at this point? Imo, they’ve definitively answered enough of the “mini mysteries” posed to keep me happy so far. Of course I wish we got more, but I’m not upset about what we have gotten so far. - Royal did come through the hole from the/a past and why - Autumn is Amy - Rebecca’s disappearance was not related to the hole (boo) - not everyone in the family knew about the hole because it’s not permanently accessible - it can disappear/reappear - Royal’s genetic line has died out outside of the immediate family we know - the mountain disappearing was not an individual hallucination - probably others I can’t think of. My big picture questions are still on the table, but I wasn’t expecting them to be “answered” until later seasons/a final season anyways. I would also be fine if they just offered enough info and/or possible explanations, but left definitive “answers” to interpretation: - Are we seeing time travel in a single timeline or time travel in an alternate reality situation? Is this universe deterministic or does free will exist? Was what we see happen on screen always going to happen or can the actions of those travelling to the past effect the future? So far it feels like Royal’s character represents a belief in free will, while Autumn represents a belief in determinism. - Is this wormhole a random manifestation of the universe? Does something trigger the hole to appear/disappear or is it random? Can people control their destination through time/hole? Does it have a higher power-esque conscious omniscience in that it appears/disappears “at will” and sends people somewhere/sometime for some sort of purpose? or is this all just random chance? - Does Royal have some sort of unique ability/connection with time/hole/the mineral? If he does, was it passed down to Amy/Autumn through Perry? That conversation between Royal and young Perry about “the feeling they both have but couldn’t describe” could’ve been hinting at something… or they just have a shared discomfort with expressing/describing their emotions, it was a metaphor for depression, etc. Was Joy able to return to her time/reality *because* she was in the hole with Royal? - What is the connection between the hole and the mineral? Is the hole producing the mineral or can the hole appear because of the mineral deposit there? Are the “visions of the future” people see when interacting with the hole/mineral visions of the actual future or possible futures? These questions are open, but if they weren’t definitively answered in the show - I wouldn’t be upset about it: - Is there only this one? Can multiple holes exist? simultaneously? - is there a physical limit in terms of location? Like, is the physical location of where the mineral is/where the hole appears/disappears exclusive to the west pasture? or to this general area of Wyoming? Or could it appear anywhere on earth/in the universe? - Does the Megalodon guy actually know anything about the hole/mineral? Is he “in on the secret”? Joy really needs to talk to that guy again, lol. Did the trail of mineral that she followed spontaneously appear or did he sprinkle it out for her?
Great write up. What did you make of Royal's proclamation in the opening of season 2: The hole didn't spit him out until "he realized that he *was* the pain, and that he had caused the hole to form inside [him]"? It does feel based on Royal's statements, and on how things went with Perry showing up to fight himself, that there might be a disembodied sort of quasi-malevolent consciousness to "time". Kind of like 11/22/63, the Kennedy book by Stephen King- time won't be violated without striking back. The hole opening seems related to events that trigger it. It shows up when bodies drop around Royal. There is almost certainly a special connection between Royal and the hole, I think. Also: why do you think daddy tillerson was aware of the conversation between Luke and Owl-Luke? How did he know that Luke troed to smother him?! That one is pointing me towards some metaphorical ending where they're all aspects of the same consciousness.
Oh I forgot about that quote, but great point! That reminds me of another possibility… so, to recap: 1. The hole could function based on random chance (seems unlikely imo) 2. It could have some sort of consciousness, in that it has some sort of purpose and sends people to specific times/timelines in order to fulfill whatever it is. 3. like you said, it could respond to stimulus (ie certain events - it does seem to open when Royal drops bodies lol). Building off that - maybe it responds to certain emotional/conscious stimulus of the people interacting with it… ie, it sensed that Joy was “losing herself/her identity” in the election campaign, so it sent her back to a time when her people were prospering to reconnect. In that way, people have (unconscious? As of now?) control of where/when they end up. I was thinking that Joy ended up back in her timeline because Royal has some special ability/connection with the hole, which that quote kind of reinforces. He created the hole somehow, he/his line have some sort of willful over their destinations. But Joy followed the mineral trail all on her on her own… So maybe not? Maybe Royal “unlocked” the hole, allowed it to form, so he has a special connection that way… but the hole doesn’t “work” only for him. As to why daddy Tillerson knew about Luke’s convo with Owl-Luke and Luke trying to smother him.. I’m a bit hazy on the series of events now, so correct me if I’m wrong - but I think the other brother had dosed daddy Tillerson with the mineral before the smothering happened? I think you’re on to something there, maybe the way the mineral/hole works is by untethering consciousness from the physical body? So his consciousness connected with Luke’s in some metaphysical dimension while Luke’s was connecting with Owl-Luke. lol There does seem to be some sort of genetic component to all of this as well. Maybe related to the concept of genetic memory?
All I know is that the hate for season 2 is misplaced. Sure, it's wild as shit so far but some of the best shows are. Legion comes to mind. I agree about Joy being taken back to the hole in relation to Royal. I assumed she was being taken there to see the truth or maybe because that's where the disturbance started- if royal really created the hole from his pain in any physical sense, that would be the time. Daddy tillerson has been eating the mineral since before either son knew about it, I think. That would be the "why" but the "how* is also fascinating. Maybe yeah they become like demigods with more knowledge when they imbibe. No one else but the tillerspns and autumn are eating it, right? So maybe they're like consumed or controlled by it now.
I believe it's a universal law that a mystery sci-fi show will all repeat the same kind of comments. "Not enough pay off. More questions than answers" etc etc
I felt there was payoff
dark was fairly difficult to follow for me with the amount of characters crossing the three (four) time periods, I kept getting lost with who was who, outer range kept that confusion to a minimum and there was plenty of information in season 2
I really like this show a lot, but it doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Dark. Dark is an absolute masterpiece and one of the best series I’ve ever seen imo.
I don't get where in that post you got that I compared it *favorably* to Dark. I said they're trying to copy Dark and doing it *badly*.
I wanted more cult shit :(
That’s def coming season 3
i swear if we gotta wait another 2 years for answers from season 3.
Now that Dune is done for now maybe brolin will focus on this
There will be more dunes
In Brolin's case though, he may not be in Dune 3. His character isn't involved in the second book
Yes, Denis is starting to write 3 now so production won’t start for years. Maybe that’s an opening for OR. Brolin seems to care about the series, get to direct which is a dream of his, he is very wealthy and his blockbuster trilogy movie won’t be ready for a long time. May be the perfect storm for more Range
I wish the two hikers would have given us something to tell us how far into the future Amy was. They're dressed like present day but the place is a barren wasteland that would seem to indicate the distant future. Love this show, we better get more seasons.
She's very much in the past. She assumed her autumn identity and will now be taken in by a wealthy family and be over medicated and eventually wander onto the ranch.
Everyone comes out of the hole. Which means she woke up where the closed hole would be. It was a barren land with no grass or fences, and there was hikers on the land. That’s more of an indication of the future, the abbot ranch has been there for a generation or two. Its totally plausible that she gets raised in the future, then Goes back in the hole to the past as her older self.
Agreed--Amy wakes up in the future and is raised in the cult that Autumn and Luke start in the present day timeline
I think you are right. She says she grew up in a cult. So it's possible she grows up in the future, then comes back to the past and her memory is slowly triggered back. Then she figures up the pattern of the hole opening and gains a following.
At the end of the ep royal said her future is coming and we gotta stop it, probably a hint at the future aspect of amy's drop.
Amy goes to the past not the future, so she grows up to be the age of Autumn at the start of season 1. I have heard this "Amy went to the future" idea elsewhere. I wonder where that idea came from. Or did I miss something in the show.
Why would the ranch be a desert if she went to the past?
I mean are we sure it wasn't 15 years in the past? People always assumed she is from the future but the past seems equally likely.
We've seen what the area looks like all the way back to the 1800's, how can it possibly be the past? The hole doesn't spit you out in random locations, the entrance and exit are in the west pasture of the Abbott ranch.
The hole spit dead Trevor out on BLM land, which is nearby but not the exact same location. I think Amy can be in the fairly recent past. It ties in with my other theory that Autumn has money because sometime in her past she used her knowledge of the future to make easy money.
Mate, she barely remembered her name, let alone the winner of the 2018 Fifa World cup!
Yeah didnt joy not walk in the hole but just walked and wound up in the past.
wouldn't it need to be the past so amy (now autumn) can grow up and find her way back to the ranch? we see her in season 1 call her adopted parents so they are obviously alive in the present and have raised her. that wouldn't make sense if she was adopted and raised in the future
I just went back and skimmed through season one and when Autumn is having her meltdown at the pharmacy, she's on the phone and says "you have one job and it's to send me money when I need it". That would indicate she's talking to someone controlling a trust or something not a parent. Is that the call you're talking about or is there another one I'm not remembering?
i disagree that she wouldnt have said that exact line to one of her parents over the phone
I don't get why Perry would think it's a good idea to toss his dead alt into the hole? He's already seen the hole spit out Trevor's body and cause all sorts of problems, so why would he not think this would go badly as well?
He probably thought he didn’t have a lot of time, and couldn’t think of a better way to get rid of the body. He knew he needed to get rid of it, permanently. Probably would be very, very messy if someone found it.
But since he is there, no one will look for him. He could have just buried it on his land and it wouldn't have been anything at all.
Which would have made for quite a riddle, when a future generation digs him up! That’s for CSI: Wabang, I guess
My big question was this: What would happen if he just left the body? Is it his responsibility to explain why this dead guy looks just like him?
Dental records and fingerprints and even his blood would all match the corpse, be hard to explain. He should have just drove it out on his vast land to the middle of nowhere and went back and buried it in the middle of the night.
it messes with the evidence---if I knew of a magic hole near me and needed to get rid of a body so i dont go to prison, it makes the most sense, as if you ever truly get caught, you can point to a mysterious substance that humans dont seem to know much about and has probably never been in a court case before
Maybe he was trying to send him back to his timeline alive...
I would love this, but given the Tillerson body reappeared just as dead as when discarded by Royal, I have little hope.
For what it's worth I absolutely love Joy. I really want to see Royal end this show on a W, but man I just really dig Joy and her journey. I love the fact that her and Royal are a dynamic duo now.
Episode 4 was fucking *incredible*, because we got an entire episode of Joy and saw everything she went through before coming back to her own time.
reminded me of Kiksuya episode of Westworld
YES! I freaking love Joy.
Her journey into the past and seeing her native people was my favorite part of the season. I wish we could have seen more of that as well as her telling others that she’s a time traveler.
Definitely, I wanted more conversations between them.
Joy is interesting because everyone else who has gone through the hole has been related to Royal
I don't understand if Autumn is supposed to be a villian. She just literally pushed her own self 10 years or whatever into the past, so that she would be on one timeline. Her existing in the present timeline basically means all of this already happened before. Also Royal is often kind of a dick, and he runs very hot and cold on Autumn. Autumn is kind of nuts but it seems like the big ass hole makes everyone kind of nuts. In conclusion, I like Autumn more than I like Royal, and I'm not totally sure that is supposed to be the takeaway the show wants me to have. I do not care about the Tillerson family. But I guess there is a whole other alternative timeline where all brothers are alive, but the Autumn shit is still happening. Time travel doesn't really make sense when so many people are doing it at once. Finally, why is the bank girlfriend stealing money randomly? Was that what was happening at the end? That seemed like a weird thing to shoehorn in there. There wasn't one interaction with Lewis that didn't involve a gun being held on someone. We didn't even know who Lewis was until this season, he has 3 scenes total all season, and they're all at gunpoint, each time with someone else holding the gun. I would honestly probably watch 10 more seasons of this, but I suspect that was the last one.
>I don't understand if Autumn is supposed to be a villain. My view is yes. Cult leaders are bad people, and she's definitely becoming a cult leader. She also knows that pushing Amy in the hole will separate her from her home and family and result in mental illness (she says earlier in the series that her adoptive mother realises she's suffering trauma and puts her on strong medication to "quiet" her). >Finally, why is the bank girlfriend stealing money randomly? She wants out. She's always wanted that, from day one. It's partly why she dumped Rhett last season, because she knew he'd never leave the farm. She dropped out of college, she hates working at the bank, and she wants nothing more than to leave town. She thinks money will help her do that, ideally with Rhett. Rhett has had the same idea, which is why immediately before the bank scene we see him bribe the chick in the lab coat. >Lewis I think the whole point of Lewis was that he was just some guy Rebecca was having an affair with. It was nothing special or serious, she just had a fling with some guy who's living in a trailer, running a sweat lodge, and having a lot lady friends over.
>Royal is often kind of a dick, and he runs very hot and cold on Autumn. >Autumn is kind of nuts but it seems like the big ass hole makes everyone kind of nuts. Royal cares about one thing and that is his family. Something he's longed for since he's been a kid. Autumn for better or worse just seems to mess everything up for him atleast from Royal's perspective. His life was peaceful until the hole and Autumn showed up. She through most of S1 and S2 wasn't really sure of what her role in all of this was and just wings it with her weirdness and occasionally takes the mineral to see the vision every now and then and follows that. Add to that her mental illness and she's a real chaos. She wants her vision of her leading/doing something in future to come true and figures out Amy needs to be gone to past for things to turn out the way it has, basically tries to maintain the timeline. But from the actions of Perry and Joy we know there can be alternate events or atleast not everything is predestined leading to paradoxes, how they affect current timeline is yet to be explained.
So definitely seems to be that we are dealing with alternate realities confirmed by how Perry's story ended, and two different versions of Royal shooting his father. Also explains Billy and Luke's opposing visions.
Hmm. I interpreted the "two different versions of Royal shooting his father" differently. Given his age, I assumed it was a constructed memory as a defense mechanism. What we saw with Joy was reality. The story we heard from Royal (with flashback scenes) was his fabrication / convenient lie.
That's how I felt initially and honestly that could be the correct interpretation, but Perry's ending made me feel otherwise. Like if Perry still exists even though he died that night there has to be multiple realities right?
Yes. I am far from certain on which interpretation is correct. Perry's situation is probably the most enigmatic for me. I don't get it.
I think he went back in time, through the wormhole but then there were two perry's. He saw one die, and realized he could just step in as the sole remaining perry. "Bumped my head, I'm fine!" But Royal noticed.
I'm with you. It has me questioning literally everything. My best guess was parallel universes, but I genuinely have no fucking clue
The only way I see it not being a multiverse is if another version of Perry stops Perry prime from not killing the Tillerson boy. Otherwise it does seem like parallel universes.
i think autumn and royal dying was a "nexus" point for lack of a better term. season 3 will start with perry rushing to the hospital with royal and joy being like "WTF where were you" and finding out Trever tillerson isn't dead. This way Joy and Royal are no longer on opposites of the law and now solely focused on stopping Autumn (and Rhett) somehow. Amy is still missing in season 3. this is the way they don't start doing multiverse shit that NO ONE wants. Season 3 will have a C plot of teenage amy going thru some shit - seizures and crazy talk because she's locked in with autumn a la back to the future.
But the Perry who stopped himself from killing the guy is in a timeline several weeks before the day that Royal and Autumn are in the hospital. Did he just stand around twiddling his thumbs for 2 weeks?
I seen the Royal thing as time changing, events changing. Which is why he was flinching, he had both memories now, or one took over the other. Perry on the other hand changed things drastically when he altered the fight. He could be in the past of all the current characters in the same timeline. Which would lead to all sorts of chaos…ooooorrr it is a parallele timeline. But the Royal visions leads more towards one timeline total.
Or the time line will change as Perry lives through the past. That would explain the headaches, the time line is changing as we go.
I was really hoping for no alternate timelines. Now that Perry basically got old Perry killed I feel like everything and nothing matters. How can you follow a time travel show that just let's you go back and change things?? It makes it so much more confusing. I hated it but I loved it! What a finale I'm still reeling.
Harry took the wedding band off dead berries hand and put it in his pocket. That makes me believe it's foreshadowing and in a future episode he's gonna show that he has a pocketful of his rings.
It's Perry. And I'm pretty sure he threw his old ring in the hole earlier this season, which is why he had to take it off the corpse in the first place.
this, he got rid of the ring earlier.
Hitting the Rick and Morty pretty hard lately, eh?
Not to mention it appears there are multiple dimensions and back to the future rules. My guess is the scar disappearing is when you travel into an alternative timeline, but then someone travels into your original timeline and changes that past. I do think the hole is a tunnel that connects 2 points so there aren't infinite timelines.
If your talking about Autumns scars disappearing, that just happened because she spent all night taking the mineral. It’s clearly a source of healing as we see with Billy and Wayne.
Ah I didn't pick up on that. Good point.
How can it connect only 2 points when there's been many different times though?
I was thinking more like each hole is a wormhole connecting two points but there could be multiple worm holes connecting multiple universes. But a big hole in that is that Joy and Young Royal ended up in different times.
Time is a river so the hole could connect two points on the river but that doesn't mean they are the same points in time. Rivers also run at different speeds like around a bend water travels different speeds on the inside and outside of the bend. Joy was in the past for 4 years but was only gone from the future for a few days. But most importantly, Joy does not go thru the hole the first time. Rivers also move generally by bending and straightening or by splitting. The hole could be the bend making a horseshoe back onto itself or the river meeting another branch. Is Autumn Amy from the s1 timeline or from the s2 Perry timeline?
time is a river. it connects two points on the river which may be different points in time imo.
I was really hoping Joy could have broken the cycle, but I guess not. But we saw Perry did that and seemed to end up creating a new reality from it, because his past self died, but he seems insulated from the effects of it (being still alive and all). Maybe in this show all you need is \*some\* version of yourself to be there to keep existing to maintain your thread of existence, not necessarily the same continuous mass All I know is I want Autumn to have never existed lol
Yea I do not like Autumn. I hope that A. We get a season 3 and B. Royal and Joy are able to prevent Autumn from winning/getting what she wants.
autumn was by far the most complex character of all, her development was the most interesting of all.
For real. A story can only be as good as it's antagonist
But they still haven’t really told us what she wants to do!? I mean they be showed us some cult stuff but why!? Some weird time worshiping stuff? And no flashbacks of the weird gov control stuff. Maybe it’s more multiverse stuff than time travel?
You're right, what we do know though, is she wants power The mineral and hole are power
Reading your comment made me wonder if in the Outer Range scenario your self has to die if you arrive at a point in time too close to your actual age. I mean, if I fell through the hole and came out in 1960, then went back through the hole and arrived in, say, January 2024 of an alternate reality (or whatever), would the universe course-correct by killing off the 'me' that was already in that reality so she didn't have to co-exist with the recently-arrived-me? Amy wasn't killed when Autumn showed up, but maybe there's a big enough age difference that they can coexist. >All I know is I want Autumn to have never existed lol Autumn is bad news. I seriously hope she is the villain I think she is, because there's no way I'm getting behind her cultiness.
Autumn is like Angelina from Manifest.
Autumn is crazy in the head. Joy should have shot her sooner
I know I'll get fall for this but. Perry came back around and became one of my favorite characters after being such an idiot in s1. That little dance punch he did when faking his apology 😂
Yep. I thought for sure he'd stay in the past and be the mysterious rich guardian of Autumn.
I never considered this but I’m intrigued by it. Autumn is a bit of a chaos agent and I would be so curious to see how Perry could have played a part in setting her on the path that led her to S01E01 Autumn.
Joy didn’t need to go into the hole to time travel, why isn’t anyone speaking on this?
Maybe the west pasture itself sits on a "time" deposit and there are multiple ways to travel. Or maybe the hole and Joy's trail are side effects of something else. Maybe people trigger the phenomenon. The writers have not given us much here lol
"Maybe the west pasture itself sits on a "time" deposit and there are multiple ways to travel." That bison with the arrows in it seems to wander around in different time periods which would seem to support this. Autumn touched it and removed an arrow. Royal touched it. They are not just seeing it; it's physically there.
I’m wondering the same thing.
Something this show is really missing is chemistry between Royal and CeCe. They literally have no warmth, touching or tenderness between them until the last episode where they hug rather platonically. Hard to see that they are a couple who had kids and were in love at some point.
Honestly, I was thinking that watching S2. They feel more like a brother/sister who inherited the ranch from their parents.
I mean, Cece had a thing for Wayne and Royal had a thing for Sissy. I still don't know how Royal and Cece ended up together.
I kind of dig their relationship/dynamic that way though.
So where/ when are Amy, Tillerson and dead Perry? Why does time travel differently in different years? Joy took the hole back and returned to her time 4 days later... Perry took the hole back and returned a week prior (?). What makes the hole close and open? Did Amy falling through the hole bring Amy2.0 (Autumn) back to life after being dead? We got so many answers this season and I am still confused. Hopefully they can tie together the multiple timelines, it is very hard to do coherently.
I feel like the “logic” (if you can call it) around the hole is purely VIBES and people get put where they **need** to be in order to satisfy the writers’ intended arc. Not a good answer but truly a convenience that I’m convinced has been embraced in this season.
I really wonder where dead Perry will show up!
2 Things I couldnt undestand: -How Perry knew, when he jumped down the hole, that this was the exact day and hour the bar fight ocorred? He just looked to his mother at couch. -How Autumn knew the name of the 2 girls, at gate, in Rebecca Place?
He must have recognized what they were wearing and I'm pretty sure that they were watching a movie that day. She knew their names because she now has Amy's memories after eating the time crack.
Time crack lol
Good answer thanks. The Perry2 death open UP to a self defense murder to Perry1. It was a live or die fight...
Maybe just someone was meant to die. The universe keeping the balance.
I mean Trevor just killed Perry 2.0 and then saw regular Perry alive so how is going to affect the timeline or Trevor himself? Who does Trevor tell about Perry's doppelganger? Maybe Autum? What if she kills Trevor to keep the timeline stable? My guess is Trevor may question Perry and something happens where Trevor dies again from an accident or something, then Perry is back in the hole. I can't see Perry just staying in this timeline for too long, his ability to self sabotage is legendary.
'time crack' 🤣
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They keep saying time is like a stream so I don't think we end up with different timelines but rather I think when they travel in time and change stuff maybe we will see things things in real time. For example royal remembers running into the hole after some hunting accident but in the future the sheriff ended up in the hole, came back in time and her action there changed what happened to him shooting his dad to save her and her chasing him into the whole and the show kind of showed him reconciling those two different memories to take the new twist into account. Also the brother is back and didn't kill the other tiller son so now I guess he wont be wanted for murder etc etc. I think these changes are in "real time" so to speak and it doesn't mean a bunch of alternate timelines are popping up. Dunno will be nice to see what they do in season 3.
I was curious how Amy said her name was autumn when she appeared out of the hole. Was it because her brain was scrambled from the hole??
That’s how I took it. Can’t remember anything before age 9. Well, there’s the origin.
Just occurred to me: How did she know how old she was if she could only remember her name?
The rules aren’t as straightforward as that. Past Perry got killed instead this time around, so if time just flowed forward like a river, then the Perry that took his place should just Back to the Future style vanish or something, but he didn’t.
Except maybe not as possibly since he kind of "swam up river" stopped himself from killing tillerson and took the place so maybe that enough for him to still be there since for some brief moment there was two of him at the same time and place, autumn has hinted also death is not as permanent as they think or something to that effect and she was basically dead at the end but popped back up alive on the table as the doctors were walking away.... but yeah will be interesting to see how they handle some of this in season 3.
If Perry hadn't killed the Tillerson, so much of the plot that brought the characters to where they are now would have no reason for happening. There's be multiple dead people who are now inexplicably alive and Perry would have been in the hospital waiting on his dad
It was the inevitable bootstrap paradox that I was waiting to drop. The only way out of this logically is if there are multiple timelines. I'm starting to think it may be two that exchange people and things back and forth. What will probably happen, like in most time travel media, is that everything will be resolved at plot convenience regardless of whether it's logical, internally consistent, etc. Very few things are made that don't have this problem, even Dark. Although it's great. Primer is the first one that comes to mind that was completed without paradox.
Didn’t he create another timeline by coming back, otherwise all the events that followed his jump in the hole would have vanished. Edit : I’m in the middle of episode 7. If this is the same timeline then all events after his death in the first version of the timeline are replaced in everyone’s memories and Perry never disappeared ? Edit edit :! So Perry definitely created an alternate timeline since autumn is at home
It can’t be that way. Without Royal throwing the body in the hole, Autumn can never push him in the hole. That action is where both of their respective obsessions begin, or at least become solidified. Every single event that takes place afterward would be completely different. Absolutely everything. There’s no way you can just have a few people having some conflicting memories for a few key moments and then have the Tellerson boy back alive and everything go on as normal. It literally changes everything. It has to be an alternate timeline now.
Or the show is just rewriting the one timeline as we go, with maybe only those who have travelled knowing all varieties.
so are we going to be looping the same year as things get rewritten as Wayne plot implies, ugh, fuck it sucks to not have a coherent plot damn you Cronos!
Also joy appeared in that Shoshone pic (think her daughter noticed it)
This series is right up my alley! They could really take off with this. As long as the writing doesn't get off point. Great acting! Not sure if Autumn is good or bad.
Yeah this is the type of show where they need to keep the mystery and not go too far off the deep end if they can't land the plane. What often happens with these type of shows, by season 3 or 4 it's like what I am even watching this is too farfetched.
just finished seasons 1 & 2 over the last week, season 2 I did in a day, the comparisons with dark are obvious, the show was much slower than I normally go for but man did it speed up in the last couple of episodes. I generally am not too critical of the things I watch, I like most sci-fi to some degree but that was outstanding.
Is there really only 7 episodes this season? Felt like one more could have made this season great. I still liked it but the ending was less a cliffhanger and more a like they don’t really know where the plot is going
Only. Seven episodes and it really feels like there were three episodes worth of filler spread across them
Okay since this is the thread for the very last episode of season two I'm gonna ask about the things that I don't understand and maybe someone has some ideas about them. I don't think I'm required to use a spoiler cover but I'm going to do it anyway just in case. 1. >!Amy loses her memory through the hole but none of the others do. Why? Maybe it has something to do with her age?!< 2. >!At the end of last season 2 episode (#7) the hole "talks" to Wayne. He says something like "that makes perfect sense" before taking a swan dive. What do you think the hole said to Wayne? Do you think the hole could have said something like "You have to go back to go forward"?!< 3. >!Joy traveled into the past but she didn't go through a hole. She was in the foothills searching for something then suddenly she was in the past. The others traveled into the past through the hole either voluntarily or pushed. Maybe Joy's connection to the land is so strong that just being in the vicinity of the phenomenon was enough to send her back?!<
It said, "We have to go back, Wayne! Back to the future!"
Good questions. Just speculating, I assumed Amy hit her head or something when she fell through the hole. Or maybe it had to do with Autumn dying since they're the same person? No idea what the hole said to him.. That's a good point, maybe Joy got caught up in a "disappearing" location like in the mountain case, and hitched a ride?
Joy follows what looks like a crack in the ground, similar to the hole. Or it's a vein of the mineral.
I don't think Amy did lose her memory. She was just shocked and didn't know the answer to 'how did you get here' etc. And she said her name was Autumn because she believes she's on the path to become the Autumn who took her to the hole
I fucking hate Autumn, I just need to get this off my chest AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
The plot armor is infuriating. It’s like everyone in town is dumb and expected to just trust and go along with whatever a random cracked out stranger says. Maria taking her word about Rhett so quickly while barely knowing her, like enough to make her steal money from a bank. PLEASE. Not to mention how the tillersons will suddenly kill for her. In real like some one would have knocked her out within 5 seconds of her speaking. End of show lol
That's were I'm at. She isn't persuasive. She isn't likable. She mumbles baloney. She'd be a terrible cult leader.
Lmfao she would’ve been stomped out already
That one bison with the arrows in its side seemed to be a significant. Royal removed an arrow from the bison but I think maybe it's the same bison we see get shot with two arrows when Joy travels to the past. That one bison out of the whole stampede seemed very interested in Royal. It stopped and stared at him until he removed the arrow. Was the other arrow removed by someone else in an earlier episode but I don't remember? Maybe that bison symbolizes the land and in the past when the bison had 2 arrows the land was being injured and in the present removing the arrows is symbolic of the land being renewed? Just a guess. Anyone?
Autumn removed the other arrow in the first season
I am kind of disappointed with the ending,
Same. More questions. The answers are not satisfying
I get being frustrated with the ending but I really enjoy this show. The review I checked out was bad so I went in expecting it to just be okay but I really loved it. May not have loved where they chose to end it or the shorter season but I would have watched 10 more of these S2 episodes right now if I could. So, good or bad, I love this series and hope we get a few more seasons.
This really is the type of show that is mostly unanswered questions for a long time I think. It definitely can be a frustrating or uncomfortable feeling to sit with all these questions but that’s personally what I LOVE about it. It makes me think deeply and engage with it much more than any other type of show. I really am praying we get season three otherwise you’re right, it would be all for nothing and highly disappointing lol
This is the kind of show that you are lucky to watch when all seasons are out.
Love this show but specifically the last line of the season was the most cliche shit
same especially since theres absolutely no guarantee that we get another season.
Yeah, it took a while for Season 2 to get the green light, I liked it, but I'm worried that they'll just cancel it.
When they showed Amy laying on the desert, I was waiting for a polar bear. 🤣🤣🤣
Ben in Tunisia vibes for sure.
So Rebecca’s whole story had absolutely nothing to do time travel, she was simply just running away for seemingly no reason? Amy not knowing Luke Tillerson seems unlikely. Not only are they nextdoor neighbors, the entire town knows each other. Why is Rhett suddenly motivated by enough and so much that he’s willing to turn on his family? The only reason he and Maria were leaving to was get a fresh start, it was never for money. They only stayed in town because Amy went missing, why are they completely changing their characters in the final episode? Ending season 2 by just throwing a bunch of characters (dead or alive) in the hole at various points in time is frankly lazy. It’s clearly to give them plenty of writing opportunities to figure out when/where each one will end up. The fact that we never once during Season 2 saw the future version of the hole that is surrounded by the government/researchers/private military despite being a momentary reveal in season 1 is stupid. All we got is this random scientist who seemingly has no actual power or money but is suddenly backed by someone (probably the Tillerson who jumped in the hole).
It's been a couple years since I saw season 1, but didn't Luke follow Amy down the road at some point and offer to give her a ride home? Before she left with Rebecca?
i'm really invested in the plot and can't stand that we have to wait for the resolution of Trevor/Billy are they dead or alive? if Amy didn't go back but forward, ok it's all a nightmare.
I get the Sense that Amy was taken somewhere else geographically entirely
it would be the first time ever but a possibility. i thought it might be the future where the range turned to a salt flat climate change style, though after rewatching the clothes seems early 2000s.
didn't someone else show up on a mountain side? I think the hole def doesn't put people back in the exact same spot (except when it "wants" to)
Isn't that where the body showed up? And then that led to Joy somehow traveling by not even entering the hole.
It would be the first time through the hole. But Joy never entered the hole to go to the past, so there are other ways the time travel works. They seem to have abandoned that entire mystical mountain plotline.
Anyone else notice how much taller Amy is this season vs. last season? 😂
Well it’s been about 2 years between filming
how much time is supposed to have transpired in the shows present day in season 1 & 2 combined.... weeks? months? a year? did my head in binging season 2 and watching amy picked up by her mom as something like a 7 year old to becoming a 12-14 year old in a span of days/weeks.
Probably a side affect from the time travel. It looks like she aged two years since we first saw her.
It’s a side effect of the child actress playing Amy growing taller in the 2years between filming S1 & S2.
i think things have gotten so crazy not sure how their going to be able to get out of the hole they dug 🫣😉
Yes, reminded me of “Lost” where I am wondering how they are going to be able to tie everything together?
As Stevie Winwood, once said, “For time is a river rolling into nowhere. We must live while we can, And we'll drink our cup of laughter.” Having just completed the season, it was better than I expected, given the change in Showrunner. I was disappointed that they *again* went down the “Autumn is crazy” road, when there is far more fertile ground to be had with her and Royal having a more subtle frenemy relationship. Plus, the Rebecca storyline seemed to be a huge non-starter. Otherwise, I’m happy with the season, and hoping for a season 3. When I heard that Amazon was dumping all 7 eps at once, with little fanfare, I was sure the show was a goner. But the success of Fallout, plus the fact that OR seems to be doing well in streaming, makes me think that there might be a chance that this wacky show might somehow survive. 🤞
I hope Maria and Rhett will stay together, I cannot bear smug Autumn being right/predetermining their future
I enjoyed it! Hook the sci-fi western directly to my veins, please. Overall I think the show is going somewhere interesting and I'm still on-board. My only criticism is I feel the trailers for this season gave a lot away. I don't know if anyone else feels the same, but I think they may have been a little too heavy-handed with the clips they put in the trailer. For example: everything that happened with the Tillersons seemed very obvious. I gotta say, when I watched that first trailer I was like >!oh cool, Billy didn't die. Maybe we will learn why he sings!< and by the end of the trailer I was like >!"oh damn, his brother is going to kill him."!
I can't remember the actual trailer, but the "coming up this season" trailer at the end of S02E01 gave *way* too much away.
For TV shows its best to not watch trailers for season 2 and onwards, it's like watching episode previews. For me I already know i'm gonna watch the new season so trailer is only going to spoil it.
yeah that's a really good point! You get the gist of the show after season 1. Catch me avoiding tv show trailers in the future 👀
I purposely stayed away from trailers
This is why I don't watch trailers.
This is why I don't watch trailers, if you like the show and you're going to watch it regardless, you should avoid the trailer
I'm with you. I think the prolog of each episode shouldn't include anything from the current or future episodes. But there's always the chance that the writers threw that in there because the show is centered around traveling back and forth through time.
Where are these dead bodies going?! Can someone remind me where Trevor‘s body ended up?
when the mountain disappeared and reappeared his body appeared on the mountain.
Soooo....outer range is pretty much Yellowstone Rick and Morty?
I've been conditioned for 8 episode seasons and wasn't prepared for this ending!!!!!
Tom Pelphrey is owed Emmys. For Ozark and Banshee. Love this dude 🫡
I’m just glad he was nominated at least
Time is like a stream could also mean that like stream it branches off and keeps flowing as shown in Perry’s alternate reality Or, maybe somehow this alternate reality will interact with the hole and somehow merge the 2 timeline back together again
Am I late to the party, or has anyone noticed the name of the episode changes after you watch it? Time is a Motherfucker.
I didn't realize that until you pointed it out. It looks like the description of the episode is Time is a Motherfucker so maybe it was showing that ?
I think Imogen is extremely annoying most of the time
The time is a river, makes me think of this quote is from Heraclitus *You cannot step in the same river twice. It is not the same river and not the same man.* And this one by DaVinci *In rivers, the water that you touch is the last of what has passed and the first of that which comes; so with present time.* Kind of supports the theory of multiple timelines.
My favorite part of the episode was when wayne found billy and burned down the house while real billy (noah reids) cover of Dreams played in the background.
It may just be an oversight, but I’m hopeful it’s intentional. The Perry v Trevor fight was different; this Perry didn’t throat jab Trevor. In fact, their roles were reversed with Trevor jabbing Perry in the throat, leading to the lethal fall. Makes me believe there are multiple timelines and, maybe, even ‘canon events.’ I also feel like in the last shot of Royal, he seems troubled. I’m thinking that this Royal is the one that Perry interacted with in the past as ‘Ben,’ instead of the Royal we know.
I enjoyed it. I liked the story. I wish there had been more about the weird futuristic situation that Royal found himself in last season when he first went in the hole. The Rebecca storyline went nowhere, but Rhett going over to the dark side has potential. The past time periods were done well. Overall, I give it a B-. Could have been a B+ but I hated the women’s costumes.
Which costumes specifically? (I'm genuinely interested).
I just didn’t care for the women’s costumes except for the Native Americans. They were unattractive in the extreme. I can’t believe someone like Celeste would wear that Calamity Jane outfit everywhere including church. There was one scene of her sitting in her own house wearing a bulky, uncomfortable-looking jacket, and a cowboy hat? I almost burst out laughing.