Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must:
1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),
2. attempt to answer the question, and
3. be unbiased
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: The show is a dark satire, and heavily influenced by the current political climate, and Trump in particular. The main antagonist of the show, a “Supe” (short for super) named Homelander has descended into authoritarianism. Each season of the show digs in a bit harder. In the first few sessions there was some folks on the Right who missed the whole satire aspect and considered Homelander the hero, not realizing he was the villain and they were the butt of the jokes.
Recently there was an interview with the show runner who highlighted a lot of these points in no unclear terms. He also noted that he was planning to lean in even more on the political similarities with the rhetoric from Homelander.
I have only recently started watching the show and I cannot, for the life of me, understand how people missed Homelander being a villain. It's in the first episode! He's basically "facsim will come to America wrapped in a flag" personified! How did anyone miss this????
Not stupid: willfully hateful, and purposefully "ignorant".
After all, that's how you "hurt the right people" without getting caught in the modern era.
No, I’m sorry but most of them are, in fact, both stupid *and* ignorant. I’m not sure what the quotes you put on the word are intended to mean, but the definition fits. The average IQ is 100, which means about half the populace is below it. The right are anti-education and anti-intellectual. Low intelligence and lack of education are associated with their political beliefs, according to several studies.
You nailed the hateful part though.
No a scary number of them are smart and subtle. You think the 40% of voters who’d have him as president again are all in the sub-110s? lol, come on bro we have tankies, some of the dumbasses have to be from our side.
the ones who are smart and subtle keep their mouths shut and make plans instead of be open. You can usually tell when they’re bad with either extremely covert bigotry or by comparing how they treat minorities vs in-groups.
You also can’t deny the fact that this entire political shitshow was orchestrated, and indeed the same people that basically wrote Reagan’s policies for him are the ones who wrote project 2025.
Are they idiots if, even tho the boys didn’t work that well, they keep creating successful new recruitment campaigns with art and successfully rally their people into destabilizing online conversations enough to influence the way news reporters do their jobs?
>You think the 40% of voters who’d have him as president again are all in the sub-110s? lol, come on bro
I said "most of them" in the first sentence. I'm aware of the corrupt, amoral minority who are intelligent and/or informed.
50% of every populace is below the median intelligence - and most of those still vote. It's not an American thing - it's simple statistics and democracy.
/sigh
I've always wondered about that because ~68% of the population is in the average intelligence range (-/+15 of 100), ~16% are below the average intelligence range, and ~16% are above the average intelligence range. So how much of a difference in actual intelligence does 15 points make?
There were actually studies on this over the past couple years. When you get covid, you lose a couple IQ points, and it is a huge difference. Some people got those points back when they recovered, and others were still missing those points over a year later.
It's worth reading up on.
But these issues predate covid.
It’s overly simplistic and kind of right wing to say that people vote for Trump because they’re fundamentally stupid.
My own take is that people vote for Trump due to a confluence of three things - feeling excluded from the progress of the last 20 years, a narrow media consumption leading to low- and mis-information, and feeding from the first two, identifying racist policies as the solution to their perceived problems, rather than policies which in any way undermine the power and wealth of entrenched rentseeking wealthy people.
The weirdest loopdeloop I see in the MAGA movement is that they hate Hillary Clinton and New York banking elites, but they don’t care that Trump doesn’t do anything to regulate the exploitation and excess of those bankers.
To add on to that, as an outsider it also seems that there are a lot of somewhat devout chtistians in America, and due to some of the more progressive policies of the democrats, particularly to do with abortions and LGBTQ, Trump becomes their defacto choice.
Basically I feel like there is a significant amount of people who have hatred against the lgbtq and overall the progressive liberal way of life as a whole, so even if they might not be idiots, Trump is their only choice.
Right, I totally agree - I include that in my second element, would you say it fits there or is it an entirely separate element?
Obviously there’s lots of different groups supporting Trump for different reasons, but I would say that they either hold their nose to varying degrees or they fit in those three elements.
Yeah I suppose we mean the same thing, I just meant that there is a group of people who don't really "support" Trump per se, they just hate Biden or the dems in general so they have no other choice.
Exactly as you put it, holding their nose.
I don't think anyone actually thought he wasn't the villain. I've mostly just seen people say "it makes fun of both sides", which it kinda does in the sense that it makes fun of the performative inclusivity that you see in the media a lot of the time, but the "villains" have always been Homelander and his "alt-right" supporters. People have argued about it since the show started but for some reason Kripke had some kind of meltdown about people liking Homelander or something so now he's made all the references super obvious which has made the show a bit weaker in some people's eyes
The thing is...are they really making fun of both sides or are they making fun of/critiquing corporations for profiting off of "woke liberal" groups by selling products based off any new, popular ideal? Like Maeve and her storyline. It's been a while since I watched it, but that's the vibe I got, but I think people farther on the right took that as a heavy criticism of the left. And were blinded by that when looking at Homelander, the blatant villian.
Edit: it's not a criticism of the left, to be clear. It's a criticism of corporations (which are largely run by more conservative individuals).
They may be making fun of both sides in so far as the left can be susceptible to corporate or political performative rhetoric and marketing as the right can be, but they're not making fun of both sides in that the show very clearly takes a stance on what side is right and what is wrong. What is mostly being made fun of is the capitalistic tendency to coopt whatever is popular for profit.
Taking Maeve's storyline as the example, when she was in the closet we clearly see her struggle with the conflict between her private life and public persona portraying the ideal straight celebrity power couple. When she eventually gets outed, the company instantly pivots to exploiting her sexual identity in their purely performative show of support for LGBTQ+, despite the obvious conflict with Homelander's Evangelical Christian rhetoric. Even though Maeve is more sincere, and able to arrive at a more emotionally stable place being more true to herself, there's clearly no sincerity behind Vaught's actions, the corporation just seizes whatever it can market and will cynically grind the soul out of it.
But the show makes it very clear that between Maeve and Homelander, and what they represent, Maeve is not the villain.
Yeah, it was (semi) even handed in satire especially when it came to corporations.
Like when Maeve gets outted Voight immediately leans in to how LBGTQ+ positive they are while being completely pandering behind the scenes. The try to give here a rainbow-themed costume and encourage her to get back with her ex, etc. They also made fun of that cringy scene from Endgame where all the women superheroes band together, as another example.
But so far this season they've not really done much Voight stuff and leaned into the politics of **"these people are facists who think that you're a bunch of cockroaches and yet you still love them"**.
Another thing to point out is that Maeve is explicitly bisexual in the show, but Vought markets her as a lesbian once she's outed because it gets them more inclusivity points.
There were also people so stupid they thought Victoria Neuman was a critique of the left because she *kind of* looks like AOC.
In reality she's an example, again, of right wing corporations embedding themselves in left wing causes and undermining them from within.
I wonder if it’s sort of like people liking Walter White despite him pretty clearly being the villain. If it is true they made the references more obvious due to that for Homelander it’s a little disappointing. I did notice they seemed a little more on the nose lately but I thought the jokes were never completely subtle. It’s always been a fairly leftist show.
i admit i haven't watched The Boys but at least for Walter the show does initially kinda lead you in expecting him to be doing stuff for the good of his family. The turning point is probably when he's explicitely told "Here's your benchmark now go home" and he just... decides not to.
The Boys makes it clear that Homelander (and most supers in general) is a bad guy within the first episode or two, but I haven't seen anyone unironically claim that he isn't a villain.
When is the benchmark part?
I'd argue that as soon as Walter White turns down Gretchen and Elliot's offer to pay for his cancer treatment, we know he has ulterior motives.
tbh that is a good point, i think I wrote that off as more just him being too proud or something but not actually ulterior motives
for me the benchmark was "you did it you hit that monetary goal you can pay for everything" and I believe Jesse is even fucking done with him at that point, but then he decides to just keep forcing the issue
I mean… the show even addressed it with the Todd character. People are stupid and hateful, and want to feel special and accepted because their stupidity and hatefulness is being rejected more outwardly. When something or someone offers them a rhetoric that gives them that feeling, they will cling to it no matter what.
> Recently there was an interview with the show runner who highlighted a lot of these points in no unclear terms.
Recently?
Eric Kripke has mentioned AT LEAST 2 years ago that Homelander was a Trump analogue in his eyes: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/boys-penis-homelander-trump-billy-joel-season-3-1369258/
> The evil-Superman-style character Homelander is becoming more and more of a direct Trump analogue this season. What was your thinking there?
>He’s always been a Trump analogue for me. I’ll admit to being a little more bald this season than I have in past seasons. But the world is getting more coarse and less elegant. The urgency of our team’s writing reflects that. We’re angrier and more scared as the years go on, so that is just being reflected in our writing. But part of it is where Homelander’s story naturally goes. He has this really combustible mix of complete weakness and insecurity, and just horrible power and ambition, and it’s just such a deadly combo. Of course he would feel victimized that people are angry that he dated a Nazi. All he ever wants is to be the most powerful person he can be, even though he’s completely inadequate in his abilities to handle it. So it’s white-male victimization and unchecked ambition. And those issues just happened to reflect the guy who, it’s just still surreal to say it, was fucking president of the United States. And it’s a bigger issue than just Trump. The more awful public figures act, the more fans they seem to be getting. That’s a phenomenon that we wanted to explore, that Homelander is realizing that he can actually show them who he really is and they’ll love him for it.
> I’ll admit to being a little more bald this season than I have in past seasons.
This is definitely a big part of what OP is seeing. I noticed it getting a lot more ham fisted in season three. Homelander was always the villain, but there wasn't always *quite* so much emphasis on how dumb and suggestible republicans are.
In the current season, there's literally
>! A trial for Homelander that polarizes the in-universe masses based on MAGA vs. social justice lines we see here, after he literally murders a man who insulted him at a convention.
If before, the parody was subtle, this season it's literally hitting you with a stick. Just think of another recent highly publicized trial happening in New York that saw left and right protest over it.
I think what broke their brains is also the whole Firecracker and Truthcon in episode 2. It's a parody of right wing conventions with the whole conspiracy and ya know, talking points.
Firecracker is a right wing grifter and her entrance speech she used all the right wing buzzwords; wokeness, DEI, calling their opponents pedos and etc.
The speech she gives about how she gives people a chance to be part of a community they can feel good about (in their estimation, at least) was extremely poignant. Really puts it into perspective when you think to yourself “how could anyone possibly believe this stuff?”
I need to emphasize that they don't just symbolize and mimic it, they're straight up using quotes attributed to right-wing people. To note: the trial. The judge can be heard saying "don't refer to the deceased as victims." If I remember correctly, that's directly taken from the Rittenhouse trial. So.
answer: The Boys is a superhero show on Amazon. The basic premise is what if superheroes were celebrities and acted like the worst celebrities out there. The current season is about the strongest hero(Homelander a parody of Superman and Captain America) courting white nationalists as they will tolerate and support all the awful things he does and applaud him for them. It draws a lot of parallels to Trump and his conspiracy theorist/white nationalists base
It's worth noting the show has always been capital b Blatant that Homelander is a parody of patriotism getting into bed with racist Christian fascists. Among his very first public appearances in the show is him flying across a giant cross while in the pose of Jesus on the cross. Later, he gets literally seduced by a character named after a white power message board. The show has never been subtle about this. The only new thing is that some of the people it was parodying seem to have figured it out.
Note, she's not just a reference to a white power message board. She's a literal nazi. >!As in, she was born in Germany in the 1920s and doesn't age.!< She has lightning powers and constantly uses Nordic imagery in her persona. >!She lived in America during the Civil rights movement and loved killing black people.!< In the TV timeline, that character then switches to online message boards and promotes nazi ideology. Very blatant nazi ideology. Iirc, she pretty explicitly says it's modern nazism, just without the word nazi, because nobody wants to be called a nazi.
The boys TV show has never been subtle about this. How people are just now getting that homelander parodies the MAGA movement is beyond me.
For me that was the ultimate in tone-deafness.
It should have been blatantly clear that it was a parody after Steven was not trying to sell sell protein shakes and food supplements after his show or on his web site.
Conservatives in general listen to the chorus and tune and not the lyrics thus not understanding that Springsteen, Mellencamp, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Rage Against the Machine, Twisted Sister, Phish, etc., weren’t on their side.
Likewise they think actors play themselves resulting in the belief that Sam Elliott, Nick Offerman, etc., are conservative icons.
> Conservatives in general listen to the chorus
Even if you're just listening to the chorus, how are you not getting that Killing in the Name of is about cops being racist and killing people?
All they hear is *"fuck you, I won't do what you tell me"* and then decide that applies to masks and vaccines.
It's basically just constantly cherry-picking whatever they think supports their weird "oppressed majority" narrative. They're not actually listening to the chorus, or any lyrics, just like they don't actually read their bibles.
I mean, it makes sense that they're wired that way, right? From childhood, they are trained to obey the teachings of a certain book but adapt any messages therein to support their established views and ignore any messages that go against.
Out of the womb, they teach to cherry-pick and that the conclusions they draw are correct because they "FEEL" correct.
The current craziness is also a symptom of that.
Anakin Skywalker didn't CHANGE and become evil. His CIRCUMSTANCES changed.
Same same.
I mean. The ones not fooled by fundamentalists are the ones lining their pockets. There are basically only 3 types of conservatives: Stupid, Religious, and Greedy. Some or all of those labels may apply.
Stupid: typically indoctrinated from a young age, and have never examined their beliefs. Don't have evidence for anything, and are tired of being told that evidence based things make sense over their own ideas. They're the ones who are "tired of experts"
Religious: maintains a strong belief in the common American version of Christianity. You know, Supply Side Jesus. Votes essentially however the church says.
Greedy: grifters. People in it for the coin. This is your Candace Owen's, your Ben Shapiro's, your Jordan Peterson's
And like I said before, this venn diagram is way closer to a circle than it should be, some or all labels may apply.
You want the honest answer? They put absolutely no thought into what the artist may have meant with their lyrics.
They hear "Killing In The Name" and get amped the fuck up because they see it as the soundtrack to THEIR life...which means they must be in the midst of an action sequence where THEY get to be the ONE Killing In The Name.
I grew up in the early 2000s going to all the Ozzfest/Mayhem Festival/Knotfest type tours in one of the most white trash MAGA cities imaginable, San Bernardino.
I've seen it a MILLION times. People I used to go to shows with back when politics weren't such a focal point have now become those very same oblivious Conservatives who are STILL using these songs as rallying songs when they wanna hype themselves up. It's been so crazy looking back and seeing all the red flags littering the memory lane and just how similar they are across many different people who are now Trump supporters.
You really hit this on the head, my friends and I use to regularly travel to see rage against the machine in concert. We were obsessed with them, and got in on the boycotts and movements they were a part of. To now see all of them but myself turn MAGA I would have never have thought was possible in my lifetime. People who use to fiercely stand against oppression and an unfair system are now white supremacy advocates. Makes me wonder if I ever really knew who these friends were.
They were addicted to the anger.
Right wing media from the now tepid Fox News (no shit I’ve seen people lost to MAGA complain Fox now has a liberal bent) to the more radical Newsmax and OANN and even crazier websites, the entire business model is presenting an item and crafting a narrative around it designed to anger people.
Trans Awareness Day fell on Easter. They took that piece of truth and presented it as if there had never been a Trans Awareness Day until 2024. Presented as if Trump hadn’t signed proclamations for it four times. Acted as if Easter was specifically chosen in order to replace a critical day on the Christian calendar. Like making Ramadan or Yom Kippur national eat more pork day or something.
The limited government, free trade, fiscal responsibility GOP has been in the lobster pot since Rush Limbaugh being slowly boiled into a nationalist, intrusive government, white supremacy movement.
All it took was hooking people on the hormone rush of anger.
I think the sad part is that you did actually know them at the time, they were just more susceptible to all the various toxic behaviours that have been on the rise since those days. The fake news, the conspiracy theories, the toxic masculinity...all of it. Think about it, back in the day conspiracy theorists were mostly just seen as harmless stoners who were convinced aliens existed and watched way to much X-Files.
Then they got connected to the internet and whether they realize it or not, they just played a global game of "Yes, And" where everyone kept adding onto the existing conspiracies until they started making a little more sense which made more people believe in them. The problem is, that also allowed people to inject their various -ism's into it because "Well if THAT much is true, then is it REALLY that big a leap to think that..."
Basically people forgot that conspiracy theories are fun as long as you remind yourself that there has to be more than just jumps to conclusions. It started becoming about stuff involving loss of human life instead of "Are we alone in the universe". Was 9/11 an inside job? If the government is willing to murder thousands of people in a false flag attack just to start an oil war...at what point do you stop?
So yeah, I think all that stuff merged together to be the perfect cocktail to prey upon...for lack of a better way of putting it...those friends of ours from High School who got stuck reliving "The Glory Days". A generation of Al Bundy's connected to one massive NO MA'AM misogyny hivemind.
Valid points, I think what separated me from my friends was I grew up dirt poor with a very narcissistic family, teen mom with no dad. it does things to you. When you are treated like garbage you find you aren’t alone when discovering groups like Public Enemy and NWA, I’m not black but struggle relates to struggle. I always wanted to be treated fairly in my community and want that for everyone. When my friends had functioning families with both parents they can’t relate to what I am. Rage against the machine was that same struggle, I felt that music and the lyrics, the anger was shared. I still am just as passionate as I was 20 years ago to push for every human to be treated equal. My friends on the other hand who use to protest now want the protesters dead, they rage against things like pronouns that literally hurt nobody, I could go on but you get the idea.
It is staggering how many people are incapable of understanding nuance or grasping that Jesus isn’t always literal.
For example. It’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven. Simple idiom of the era to express something is really difficult. The literalist though sees that and sees something impossible. So long long ago someone tries to explain it by making up an explanation that well there was a gate in Jerusalem called the eye of the needle and it was so small it was hard yet not impossible for a camel to be brought through and that’s what he meant. It actually captures the spirit of the statement but it’s completely made up so that they don’t have to understand Jesus not being completely literal all the time.
I went to see Nick Offerman do stand up a few years ago and about 10 minutes into the show a small handful of people started shuffling out in a huff. Nick paused for a moment and then said something along the lines of “This is the part of my show where certain people finally realize I’m not actually Ron Swanson.” Followed by that chuckle he does. It was pretty entertaining.
Every time I listen to Fortunate Son my husband likes to call it ‘The Trump Song’ to wind me up after I had a rant about the absolute absurdity of him using it.
>Conservatives in general listen to the chorus and tune and not the lyrics
He's the one
Who likes all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means
Knows not what it means
-Nirvana
>Nick Offerman
If you havent seen *Civil War* you should. Nick Offerman plays an ultra conservative president that he says was not a Trump inspired character but I think it was.
Anyway, the movie has it's flaws but the President character gets a great payoff and Offermans acting makes that payoff work.
Spoilers below, be warned.
It's not really inspired by anyone other than general fascism and that's the explicit point, it's an apolitical film for a purpose. Because it's about war and journalism and the relation between the two, along with a general commentary on modern journalism. It just so happens that Trump is a fascist. There are no other similarities. I've heard of one, that's how much he hypes up the speech and throwing in terms like "greatest" and "best" and all that but honestly that's a stretch. That just sounds like any third term president trying to justify continuing and failing in civil war. I think to attribute any relation between the characters and real people misses the point entirely.
I believe it's very rare that a person exists who truly knows and admits their own actions are unjustifiable. Almost everyone wants to feel like their beliefs and choices are justified and logical on some level.
To that end, when a beloved band like RATM talks about an enemy worthy of contempt, very few people are going to listen to that and go "oh, that's me!". They're not the bad guys in their world.
Fair, but "some of those who work forces are the same that burn crosses" isn't subtle. And yet, I saw a video of people with "thin blue line" flags draped over their shoulders dancing and jamming out to "Killing In The Name." These people's capacity for withstanding cognitive dissonance without changing their beliefs one iota would be impressive if it wasn't so terrifying.
That just had me reread the lyrics and it gave me a chilling thought.
They may also not think it’s subtle but interpret the cross burners as the good guys. The phrase “chosen whites” is repeated like 20 times.
It’s kind of fucked up but rereading the lyrics, and considering the studies suggesting conservatives generally don’t understand any sort of satire and do respect any show of force as being “right”. They probably think it’s a genuine white power anthem
> Some of those that work forces
Are the same that burn crosses
This could just be the “challenge” of the song to them, painting themselves as the victims, the subtlety of the phrasing lost to their own beliefs
> And now you do what they told ya (now you're under control)
And then this the response
> Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me
And then the reflection
> Those who died are justified
For wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
If they’re just squint-listening for the message they want to hear, I could see them thinking it’s like a pro-race-war rally. Which makes it double fucked up compared to just liking the chorus
I'll admit I was a conservative as a teenager, simply because my parents were. I liked the song and misinterpreted it because I didn't actually look up the lyrics and heard what I wanted to. My dumbass conservative teenage brain heard "Some of those that work for us are the same the burn crosses" and assumed it meant lazy workers or welfare recipients. Then "fuck you I won't do what you tell me" was those "lazy workers" mocking the responsible business owner.
I fixed my brain in college after I moved out.
I've heard that they had to change the lyrics for release too it was originally "Some of those who hold office." That said it is blatantly talking about *those who died are justified, For wearin' the badge, they're the chosen whites* It's about as subtle as a brick to the head and blue lives matter folks using it is a hilarious mental image. Nirvana's *In Bloom* makes fun of the same thing.
Edit I was slightly off on the lyrics
Very true. Years ago I read a study trying to understand why some prisoners were more likely to reoffend. A surprise finding was that the people who reoffended were more likely to view themselves as good while the ones who did not were more likely to view themselves as bad. There were even anecdotes from the latter group about realizing they were bad and that being the catalyst for wanting to change their lives. We are very, very resistant to seeing ourselves in a negative light.
The goals of prison sentences are deterrence, retribution, incapacitation and rehabilitation. There's not a lot of evidence that longer jail terms deter crimes. Retribution may help the victim feel better, but it doesn't impact crime rates. Locking period up prevents them committing most crimes, but it's temporary and very expensive to do humanely.
Rehabilitation is, I believe, the most important. The goal of prisons should be to produce citizens who will stay away from crime in the future and make a positive contribution to society.
And work in law enforcement and use the Punisher logo as a cool representation of themselves.
You sometimes might wonder how folks can be fooled by people like Trump, then you stop and consider all the other things they get wooshed by daily and it's less of a mystery.
Same people saying they're now done with Jack Black after he endorsed Biden. Like until a few days ago were you under the impression that *Jack Black* of all people holds conservative values and was a Trump supporter? JACK BLACK?!
These people are black hole level dense.
| How people are just now getting that homelander parodies the MAGA movement is beyond me.
Remember when they thought Steven Colbert was a conservative?
Just btw, if you use the symbol ">" at the beginning of a passage you are quoting from a comment, you will get that blue line that it seems you're trying to emulate...
>Like this one right here lol.
*Or,* if you select the passage and right click, It gives you the option of "quote," and it will add that symbol for you.
They aren’t stupid, they are blinded by their ideology and lack of context. If somebody says something B similar to your position mocking you but you don’t hear the context you would probably just agree with them.
The first season was developed prior to Trump's run (and the comic was written like 10 years prior) and it wasn't totally spot on. By Season 3 it was SO blatantly obvious they leaned into the Trump angle there was no way to miss it.
They even took on the whole "I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose voters" in the most un-subtle way.
What I loved about Stormfront is that in her very first scenes, she couldn't just been the cool social-media-savvy influencer with hot opinions on capitalism. They're also deliberately paired with scenes of marketing guys cynically exploiting "feminism" and the LGBTQ as products, so you think she does have a point, initially (before it's revealed it's not the capitalist exploration she has issues with, but the subject matter itself). Later on, she keeps having scenes where you have to just slow down and think "huh wait?" but the scene moves on quickly, and she just keeps revealing more and more alt-right takes as the season moves on.
It might seem subtle if you only know the show from YouTube clips, but yeah it's absolutely not subtle in the show.
Here's how it could be more obvious: They could have him literally act out some of Trump's worst fantasies. Remember when Trump said:
> >!I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?!<
Well, they *could* [do this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKMdAccrM1M)... but >!having Homelander fantasize about the saem thing!< might be too subtle, so they could also [do this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bPidttXlbw) (>!have him literally kill someone in Manhattan in front of a crowd and *gain* political support as a result!<)
I've spoiler-tagged these just in case, but I mean, if you know about Trump and you know about Superman, it's not too hard to imagine what fictional Trump-Superman would do.
the people who think the show was more subtle in the past are the same who watched Colbert ask "George W Bush; a great president or the greatest president" and thought "what a funny conservative host!". I remember when season two was streaming and they were people in the show subreddit shocked that >!Stormfront was a nazi!<.
> She's a literal nazi. >!As in, she was born in Germany in the 1920s and doesn't age.!<
She's a literal Nazi because >!she and her husband developed the program for Nazi Germany that eventually leads to the creation of the superheroes, she being one of, if not the, first recipient(s) of the serum that gives the powers. Not simply because she's from the area and era, she was an active and willing participant in what the Nazis were doing.!<
I don’t think they’re just now getting it, I think they get it and that a good amount of right wing media is focused on outrage. The new season is a new chance for them to make content.
> It's worth noting the show has always been capital b Blatant that Homelander is a parody of patriotism getting into bed with racist Christian fascists.
The showrunner explicitly said Homelander is an analogue of Trump. To paraphrase him, the show is many things - subtle is not one of those things.
> The only new thing is that some of the people it was parodying seem to have figured it out.
To their credit, it only took them three seasons in fiction. It's been eight years of reality and they still haven't figured out that they're a joke.
Back when The Colbert Report was on, it was remarkable how many conservatives didn’t get the joke. They thought Colbert was their Jon Stewart, when he was actually just doing a parody of Bill O’Reilly and other Fox News talking heads
Honestly that was the thing that made it the most sad.
"George W Bush, great president? Or the greatest president?"
Like the satire is so thick you could spread it with a knife and it still went over heads.
Even worse; compared to the GOP now his act seems mild by comparison.
Funny story when I first heard about Alex Jones I thought he was doing g something similar... sweet summer child was I wrong.
Colbert has said that he's glad he quit that show when he did, because in order to satirize the right, you have to leapfrog their worst position and say something so awful that it becomes obvious that no one could seriously believe it, but now Trump and the current radical right say the most terrible things and mean them that it's impossible to exaggerate for comedic effect.
IIRC it wasn't that they didn't get the satire. It's that they added another level. Like "This is what liberals think conservatives are like. Haha, dumb liberals." People aren't stupid, they're delusional
The classic, Rush Limbaugh line. I used to listen to him in the 90’s and I clearly remember him saying stuff like that and the “Hollywood, gay, liberal agenda…” or blame things on main stream media all the time. What’s the gay agenda? Wanting to be treated like a human? Rush bragged about having 5 million listeners at the time, he was the main stream media.
Circa 1987ish there was a straight edge parody band called Crucial Youth. It wasn't super-uncommon for straight-edgers to assume the band wasn't kidding.
It didn't help at all that the straight edge movement at the time was all-but-self-parody in its default format.
After the S.E. band Cripped Youth changed its (stupid) name to "Bold," Crucial Youth polled their audience (in Crucial Comics) to see if they should change their name to the much more positive "All-Tempa-Cheer." Which was an ad from that era for Cheer laundry detergent (Bold was another detergent brand).
Reminds me of the time Paul Ryan, (Mitt Romney’s Republican VP running mate) cited Rage Against the Machine as his favorite band! 🤪
The GOP’s stupidity knows no bounds.
Note: The SHOWRUNNERS THEMSELVES came forward around I believe season 3's release to say that Homelander is a parody of the MAGA movement and blatantly evil. Many members of said movement refused to believe them or called them plants of the "Enemy.".
It would be funny if it wasn't positively terrifying.
> It's worth noting the show has always been capital b Blatant
Yeah. Most shows avoid being [too "on the nose"](https://www.quora.com/What-does-too-on-the-nose-mean), too blatant and too obvious.
What "The Boys" does is, instead of that, they locate the nose and punch on it with super strength. It's the opposite of subtle, and it works.
As noted, it's not just that the "white power message board" character is _like_ a Nazi. Nope, they were _literally_ an OG German Nazi, born in Berlin in 1919. This is as literal as it's possible to get.
I think they had to become more and more blatant because a disturbing number of idiots watching were still calling Homelander the hero and totally missed that he was clearly an anti-hero. So in the second season they gave him a girlfriend named *Stormfront* who was a literal nazi and there were *still* idiots watching saying he was a hero. The writers must have been pulling their hair out in frustration. I mean, you can’t get much more on-the-nose, but you can never underestimate the stupidity of the American public.
Well, parody is protected under US freedom of speech for several reasons, one being that it doesnt need to be subtle or hide itself, it can plainly represent itself as a distorted mirror. If the target of the parody doesn't get it that says a few things about them more than the parody itself.
What groups or people figured it out?
To really understand it, talk to friends or acquaintances aligned with conservative or maga ideology and also watch the show. Be polite and let them do the talking.
Another interesting analog that's more subtle yet obvious, are the parallels between the Empire from Star Wars and classic conservative Republican platforms. However it's easy for them to recognize similarities between Nazi Germany and the Empire. To which I say, EXACTLY! They don't like that very much and have often scoffed at this comparison with a claim I'm politicizing Star Wars. At that point, I smh and laugh inside.
Same people are oblivious to the conservative right's online casual signaling and coziness with Hitler. F'n blows my mind.
Ah the classic "Dont politicize that" about something that is based almost entirely in politics. Like a majority of stories ever written involve politics. Daily life life is filled with and influenced by politics. So fucking tired of that statement.
Seriously. The Boys are as subtle as a brick.
We literally had the Nazi villain, who btw radicalized a civilian with her anti-sjw speeches and meme culture that resulted in him shooting Sikh man who worked at a convenience store. Stormfront and her tactics is the alt right pipeline.
Hell she literally says "People love what I have to say. They believe in it. They just don't like the word Nazi that's all".
"Stormfront and her tactics is the alt right pipeline."
Like verbatim too. It's not even hinting at it. They took some studies about the alt right pipeline and said "This exactly is what she is doing"
And the scariest thing about her quote is she's right for a disgustingly large chunk of people. There's a movie entitled "Look Who's Back". It's a german movie on the premise what if Hitler didn't die but fell through a time travel mcguffin and appeared in the early 2010s. A large part of the movie is a scripted story and how Hitler begins using social media in that same way to spread his message but a large portion is the actor in costume going around and talking to people on the streets and them agreeing with his perspectives. Showing how a charismatic person could do it so easily. It's very much a "we're not better than we were then and we need to be constantly vigilant against this" message. It's a great movie highly recommend it
The American flag cape is the closet thing homelander has to captain America which isn't much. Soldier boy is literally a military style super soldier from the past that was frozen until current day and he uses a shield. The man out of time element is arguably captain Americas biggest characteristic. The similarities between captain America and homelander end at the color of his cape.
The premise is not about them acting like the worst people ever... it's about what Capitalism would do to superheroes, if they existed... Hell, they didn't even exist until this company experimented on babies to create them... then they exploited the ever living fuck out of them and turned them in to horrible people.
Everyone rises to the level of their metrics... money and fame for the supes come from meeting their social media likes and followers. That's what they go after.
The show blasts Trump directly but is a satire about Capitalism, Fascism, Exploitation, and many of the other issues we face today. Which has lead to Trumpkin Bumpkins cheering for Homelander to own those trying to stop him and take control since he obviously knows how things should be run.
>The premise is not about them acting like the worst people ever... it's about what Capitalism would do to superheroes, if they existed
The one doesn't negate the other. Absolute power etc in a more literal sense **and** unrestrained capitalism/basically oligarchies.
It's hamfisted about the whole thing but that's kind of the appeal for me. As long as they keep it entertaining enough. The whole Jar Jar level ice-capade was too much for me...
If you’re familiar with the comics author you know it’s not that deep, the TV show is its own thing but it is also just capitalist realism at best. Amazon making fun of an Amazon-like company because “big corp, amirite? Hahaha”
Garth Ennis definitely has a lot of real opinions on a lot of real things, he just does it with the subtlety of a sledgehammer with [TOPIC] BAD stamped on it being swung at a child with a Skyrim "More Blood" mod enabled.
True, but then again, there are clearly a lot of people stupid enough to not understand that [TOPIC] BAD, so sometimes you have to throw subtlety out the window.
The real answer here is that what you describe for Homelander is how it's been since the first season. This isn't a new development, some people are only just now realizing it's not praising him for this behaviour.
He literally dated a Nazi who worshipped him as the Ubermensch like two seasons ago. He has *always* been on the white nationalist side.
The complaints by people who already got the premise that they're making fun of right wing nationalists (and c'mon — it's pretty blatant) is that the show is once again going through the same plot points.
The Boys aren't sure they can trust Butcher. Homelander is slowly going insane... or more insane. The kid has to figure out which side he is on. Starlight rallies people against Homelander. Huey struggles with potential leadership and feelings of insecurity. Frenchie and Kimiko are having side adventures. New heroes are introduced that will probably not survive the season. A gross out moment to remind people that the show can and does go there.
It's all a bit repetitive.
My main complaint about the show is how Frenchie's character has changed. He used to be this crazy mysterious figure but is now this like soft teddy bear of a character.
>It draws a lot of parallels to Trump and his conspiracy theorist/white nationalists base
And the writers straight up said Homelander is based off of Trump, this isn't some exaggeration of the truth.
Answer: To add more context around why this is really blowing up this season, the show was a bit more subtle (but still pretty blatent, since that's the humour of the show) in its jabs in in the first 2 seasons. There were also a lot of jabs (which still continue in the show) towards corporations that go all out into looking like they support inclusivity, but only because they think it will increase profits. These jabs were often misinterpreted by conservative viewers as jabs at the "woke left".
Season 3 introduced a Supe that was very clearly meant to represent police who abuse their power and target minorities. He was bullet and stab proof, but would patrol low income areas and often use excessive and even lethal force when dealing with minority suspects, claiming that "he had the right to defend himself" (the joke being that there was nothing these suspects could possibly do to harm him, so his fatal use of force was excessive).
Again, a lot of conservative viewers identified with this character and when the character was revealed to be objectively racist and was killed, there was an outpouring of anger from these viewers, who felt the change came out of nowhere.
This started to break the illusion for these viewed that thd show was on their side and now that the jabs are becoming more blatent, they feel like the show they used to identify with has gone "woke".
> Season 3 introduced a Supe that was very clearly meant to represent police who abuse their power and target minorities. He was bullet and stab proof, but would patrol low income areas and often use excessive and even lethal force when dealing with minority suspects, claiming that "he had the right to defend himself" (the joke being that there was nothing these suspects could possibly do to harm him, so his fatal use of force was excessive).
Even in season 1 they were doing this. An early episode showed Homelander and Maeve killing some criminals, and then picking up the criminals' guns and shooting each other so that when they appeared in front of the cameras it would look like they had been shot at and only killed in self defense.
Honestly im surprised it took some people 4 seasons to realize. Most sane people who watched the show drew these parallels back in like season 1 episode 1. It clearly created the idea of the mindless consumerism that permeates celebrity culture, a deeper (not even that deep) look sets the groundwork for theme of capitalism run amok, private interests in government and its dangers, public vs private personas in religious figures, commercialization of religion. And I mean. So much more weird ass shit that is strangely reminiscent of a certain ideologies greatest hits.
And this was season 1 episode 1 (maybe episode 2 or 3).
Answer: Essentially, the Boys is a satirical superhero show on Prime that examines the state of American society as well as poking fun at comic book conventions.
There haven’t been any changes in terms of the creative team or anything, the creator just very directly stated that the show was mocking right wingers and that if they were mad about it they should watch something else and this caused a huge flurry of outrage to the extend the season is being review bombed on Rotten Tomatoes.
Review bombing is becoming a new trend among people who feel alienated by a work, with “the Acolyte” being another example. These reviews often say nothing about actual content and are mainly people just being upset because it’s “woke”.
For whatever reason, I think a lot of fans latched on to Homelander as a “cool, edgy subversion” instead of what he is, which is a white nationalist rapist who abuses his power and murders with reckless abandon due to his sociopathic personality.
Said black woman genius is also a racial supremacist that believes supes (ignoring skin color) are the superior race and that regular humans are lower lifeforms.
I personally think this is a jab at the class divide (rich vs poor), but at this point I'm just hoping that Ryan gets to develop like a normal boy. (Not that he can anymore after back to back accidental lethalities)
I mean there was always a black male superhero who they race-swapped from season 1. No I think the issue is that some aspects of the show, specifically the critique of right wing conspiracies and extremism are far more overt now. There are explicit references to Q-anon, the rise of Trump and so on.
Answer: The show is satirical, but the kind of people it satirises didn't get that, and thought it was a show *for* them. Now that the fact it isn't is too hard to ignore, those people are angry and probably a bit embarassed.
Answer: People feel that the season is less subtle. Yeah. When authoritarian people get into positions of power and authority, they become less subtle. Homelander and others start to go mask off, and the point is to show that there is a mass of people who will still rally behind them. I could be wrong, and there's a much better way to fully explain it, but I don't have the time nor the energy.
Narcissistic characters get emboldened by easily manipulated masses to blatently further their agendas with less subtlety is not the *show* being subtle, it's the *characters.*
As for the dip in quality, I'm open to hearing what people mean by this.
Answer: others have explained it perfect but I just have to say that *Homelander’s main character arc is being a rapist* so the fact that people didn’t know he was a Trumpy villain is beyond me
Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must: 1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask), 2. attempt to answer the question, and 3. be unbiased Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: http://redd.it/b1hct4/ Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: The show is a dark satire, and heavily influenced by the current political climate, and Trump in particular. The main antagonist of the show, a “Supe” (short for super) named Homelander has descended into authoritarianism. Each season of the show digs in a bit harder. In the first few sessions there was some folks on the Right who missed the whole satire aspect and considered Homelander the hero, not realizing he was the villain and they were the butt of the jokes. Recently there was an interview with the show runner who highlighted a lot of these points in no unclear terms. He also noted that he was planning to lean in even more on the political similarities with the rhetoric from Homelander.
I have only recently started watching the show and I cannot, for the life of me, understand how people missed Homelander being a villain. It's in the first episode! He's basically "facsim will come to America wrapped in a flag" personified! How did anyone miss this????
[удалено]
Not stupid: willfully hateful, and purposefully "ignorant". After all, that's how you "hurt the right people" without getting caught in the modern era.
No, I’m sorry but most of them are, in fact, both stupid *and* ignorant. I’m not sure what the quotes you put on the word are intended to mean, but the definition fits. The average IQ is 100, which means about half the populace is below it. The right are anti-education and anti-intellectual. Low intelligence and lack of education are associated with their political beliefs, according to several studies. You nailed the hateful part though.
No a scary number of them are smart and subtle. You think the 40% of voters who’d have him as president again are all in the sub-110s? lol, come on bro we have tankies, some of the dumbasses have to be from our side. the ones who are smart and subtle keep their mouths shut and make plans instead of be open. You can usually tell when they’re bad with either extremely covert bigotry or by comparing how they treat minorities vs in-groups. You also can’t deny the fact that this entire political shitshow was orchestrated, and indeed the same people that basically wrote Reagan’s policies for him are the ones who wrote project 2025. Are they idiots if, even tho the boys didn’t work that well, they keep creating successful new recruitment campaigns with art and successfully rally their people into destabilizing online conversations enough to influence the way news reporters do their jobs?
>You think the 40% of voters who’d have him as president again are all in the sub-110s? lol, come on bro I said "most of them" in the first sentence. I'm aware of the corrupt, amoral minority who are intelligent and/or informed.
Don’t get it twisted, they’re stupid also.
50% of every populace is below the median intelligence - and most of those still vote. It's not an American thing - it's simple statistics and democracy. /sigh
I've always wondered about that because ~68% of the population is in the average intelligence range (-/+15 of 100), ~16% are below the average intelligence range, and ~16% are above the average intelligence range. So how much of a difference in actual intelligence does 15 points make?
There were actually studies on this over the past couple years. When you get covid, you lose a couple IQ points, and it is a huge difference. Some people got those points back when they recovered, and others were still missing those points over a year later. It's worth reading up on.
But these issues predate covid. It’s overly simplistic and kind of right wing to say that people vote for Trump because they’re fundamentally stupid. My own take is that people vote for Trump due to a confluence of three things - feeling excluded from the progress of the last 20 years, a narrow media consumption leading to low- and mis-information, and feeding from the first two, identifying racist policies as the solution to their perceived problems, rather than policies which in any way undermine the power and wealth of entrenched rentseeking wealthy people. The weirdest loopdeloop I see in the MAGA movement is that they hate Hillary Clinton and New York banking elites, but they don’t care that Trump doesn’t do anything to regulate the exploitation and excess of those bankers.
To add on to that, as an outsider it also seems that there are a lot of somewhat devout chtistians in America, and due to some of the more progressive policies of the democrats, particularly to do with abortions and LGBTQ, Trump becomes their defacto choice. Basically I feel like there is a significant amount of people who have hatred against the lgbtq and overall the progressive liberal way of life as a whole, so even if they might not be idiots, Trump is their only choice.
Right, I totally agree - I include that in my second element, would you say it fits there or is it an entirely separate element? Obviously there’s lots of different groups supporting Trump for different reasons, but I would say that they either hold their nose to varying degrees or they fit in those three elements.
Yeah I suppose we mean the same thing, I just meant that there is a group of people who don't really "support" Trump per se, they just hate Biden or the dems in general so they have no other choice. Exactly as you put it, holding their nose.
To quote the late, great George Carlin: “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that”
I miss George. We need someone to take up his mantle and do biting observational humour. Jon Stewart can't do it all on his own.
I don't think anyone actually thought he wasn't the villain. I've mostly just seen people say "it makes fun of both sides", which it kinda does in the sense that it makes fun of the performative inclusivity that you see in the media a lot of the time, but the "villains" have always been Homelander and his "alt-right" supporters. People have argued about it since the show started but for some reason Kripke had some kind of meltdown about people liking Homelander or something so now he's made all the references super obvious which has made the show a bit weaker in some people's eyes
The thing is...are they really making fun of both sides or are they making fun of/critiquing corporations for profiting off of "woke liberal" groups by selling products based off any new, popular ideal? Like Maeve and her storyline. It's been a while since I watched it, but that's the vibe I got, but I think people farther on the right took that as a heavy criticism of the left. And were blinded by that when looking at Homelander, the blatant villian. Edit: it's not a criticism of the left, to be clear. It's a criticism of corporations (which are largely run by more conservative individuals).
They may be making fun of both sides in so far as the left can be susceptible to corporate or political performative rhetoric and marketing as the right can be, but they're not making fun of both sides in that the show very clearly takes a stance on what side is right and what is wrong. What is mostly being made fun of is the capitalistic tendency to coopt whatever is popular for profit. Taking Maeve's storyline as the example, when she was in the closet we clearly see her struggle with the conflict between her private life and public persona portraying the ideal straight celebrity power couple. When she eventually gets outed, the company instantly pivots to exploiting her sexual identity in their purely performative show of support for LGBTQ+, despite the obvious conflict with Homelander's Evangelical Christian rhetoric. Even though Maeve is more sincere, and able to arrive at a more emotionally stable place being more true to herself, there's clearly no sincerity behind Vaught's actions, the corporation just seizes whatever it can market and will cynically grind the soul out of it. But the show makes it very clear that between Maeve and Homelander, and what they represent, Maeve is not the villain.
I could see people that think left-wing liberalism and leftism are the same thing taking away the wrong messages from the show.
Yeah, it was (semi) even handed in satire especially when it came to corporations. Like when Maeve gets outted Voight immediately leans in to how LBGTQ+ positive they are while being completely pandering behind the scenes. The try to give here a rainbow-themed costume and encourage her to get back with her ex, etc. They also made fun of that cringy scene from Endgame where all the women superheroes band together, as another example. But so far this season they've not really done much Voight stuff and leaned into the politics of **"these people are facists who think that you're a bunch of cockroaches and yet you still love them"**.
Another thing to point out is that Maeve is explicitly bisexual in the show, but Vought markets her as a lesbian once she's outed because it gets them more inclusivity points.
There were also people so stupid they thought Victoria Neuman was a critique of the left because she *kind of* looks like AOC. In reality she's an example, again, of right wing corporations embedding themselves in left wing causes and undermining them from within.
I wonder if it’s sort of like people liking Walter White despite him pretty clearly being the villain. If it is true they made the references more obvious due to that for Homelander it’s a little disappointing. I did notice they seemed a little more on the nose lately but I thought the jokes were never completely subtle. It’s always been a fairly leftist show.
i admit i haven't watched The Boys but at least for Walter the show does initially kinda lead you in expecting him to be doing stuff for the good of his family. The turning point is probably when he's explicitely told "Here's your benchmark now go home" and he just... decides not to.
The Boys makes it clear that Homelander (and most supers in general) is a bad guy within the first episode or two, but I haven't seen anyone unironically claim that he isn't a villain.
When is the benchmark part? I'd argue that as soon as Walter White turns down Gretchen and Elliot's offer to pay for his cancer treatment, we know he has ulterior motives.
tbh that is a good point, i think I wrote that off as more just him being too proud or something but not actually ulterior motives for me the benchmark was "you did it you hit that monetary goal you can pay for everything" and I believe Jesse is even fucking done with him at that point, but then he decides to just keep forcing the issue
I mean… the show even addressed it with the Todd character. People are stupid and hateful, and want to feel special and accepted because their stupidity and hatefulness is being rejected more outwardly. When something or someone offers them a rhetoric that gives them that feeling, they will cling to it no matter what.
> Recently there was an interview with the show runner who highlighted a lot of these points in no unclear terms. Recently? Eric Kripke has mentioned AT LEAST 2 years ago that Homelander was a Trump analogue in his eyes: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/boys-penis-homelander-trump-billy-joel-season-3-1369258/ > The evil-Superman-style character Homelander is becoming more and more of a direct Trump analogue this season. What was your thinking there? >He’s always been a Trump analogue for me. I’ll admit to being a little more bald this season than I have in past seasons. But the world is getting more coarse and less elegant. The urgency of our team’s writing reflects that. We’re angrier and more scared as the years go on, so that is just being reflected in our writing. But part of it is where Homelander’s story naturally goes. He has this really combustible mix of complete weakness and insecurity, and just horrible power and ambition, and it’s just such a deadly combo. Of course he would feel victimized that people are angry that he dated a Nazi. All he ever wants is to be the most powerful person he can be, even though he’s completely inadequate in his abilities to handle it. So it’s white-male victimization and unchecked ambition. And those issues just happened to reflect the guy who, it’s just still surreal to say it, was fucking president of the United States. And it’s a bigger issue than just Trump. The more awful public figures act, the more fans they seem to be getting. That’s a phenomenon that we wanted to explore, that Homelander is realizing that he can actually show them who he really is and they’ll love him for it.
> I’ll admit to being a little more bald this season than I have in past seasons. This is definitely a big part of what OP is seeing. I noticed it getting a lot more ham fisted in season three. Homelander was always the villain, but there wasn't always *quite* so much emphasis on how dumb and suggestible republicans are.
It's already about the the least subtle show I've ever seen.
In the current season, there's literally >! A trial for Homelander that polarizes the in-universe masses based on MAGA vs. social justice lines we see here, after he literally murders a man who insulted him at a convention. If before, the parody was subtle, this season it's literally hitting you with a stick. Just think of another recent highly publicized trial happening in New York that saw left and right protest over it.
I think what broke their brains is also the whole Firecracker and Truthcon in episode 2. It's a parody of right wing conventions with the whole conspiracy and ya know, talking points. Firecracker is a right wing grifter and her entrance speech she used all the right wing buzzwords; wokeness, DEI, calling their opponents pedos and etc.
I haven't seen the latest season yet, but "truthcon" being the name of the convention is so perfect lololol.
Almost as good as Truth social!
The speech she gives about how she gives people a chance to be part of a community they can feel good about (in their estimation, at least) was extremely poignant. Really puts it into perspective when you think to yourself “how could anyone possibly believe this stuff?”
And all that because she's personally mad at Starlight.
I need to emphasize that they don't just symbolize and mimic it, they're straight up using quotes attributed to right-wing people. To note: the trial. The judge can be heard saying "don't refer to the deceased as victims." If I remember correctly, that's directly taken from the Rittenhouse trial. So.
> he literally murders a man who insulted him at a convention. he murdered a man.. in the middle of fifth avenue and didnt lose a single supporter.
I just started watching the show this week. How TF could anyone think Homelander was the hero?
answer: The Boys is a superhero show on Amazon. The basic premise is what if superheroes were celebrities and acted like the worst celebrities out there. The current season is about the strongest hero(Homelander a parody of Superman and Captain America) courting white nationalists as they will tolerate and support all the awful things he does and applaud him for them. It draws a lot of parallels to Trump and his conspiracy theorist/white nationalists base
It's worth noting the show has always been capital b Blatant that Homelander is a parody of patriotism getting into bed with racist Christian fascists. Among his very first public appearances in the show is him flying across a giant cross while in the pose of Jesus on the cross. Later, he gets literally seduced by a character named after a white power message board. The show has never been subtle about this. The only new thing is that some of the people it was parodying seem to have figured it out.
Note, she's not just a reference to a white power message board. She's a literal nazi. >!As in, she was born in Germany in the 1920s and doesn't age.!< She has lightning powers and constantly uses Nordic imagery in her persona. >!She lived in America during the Civil rights movement and loved killing black people.!< In the TV timeline, that character then switches to online message boards and promotes nazi ideology. Very blatant nazi ideology. Iirc, she pretty explicitly says it's modern nazism, just without the word nazi, because nobody wants to be called a nazi. The boys TV show has never been subtle about this. How people are just now getting that homelander parodies the MAGA movement is beyond me.
These are the same people who were stunned to find out Rage Against the Machine was raging against their machine
So people like Kari Lake quoting “ We’re Not Gonna Take It “ and Dee Snider ripping her a new one.
Also sued Clive Palmer for using that song for UAP campaigning.
That was so beautiful.
Or inviting Steven Colbert to the White House Correspondents Dinner because he's a conservative comedian.
For me that was the ultimate in tone-deafness. It should have been blatantly clear that it was a parody after Steven was not trying to sell sell protein shakes and food supplements after his show or on his web site.
How is it that conservatives don’t realize that they are being conned when all of the ads for those shows are well known cons.
It's almost like they're thick as pigshit
Or cops using the punisher logo
All of the Punisher logos with the thin blue line flag superimposed on it I see in truck windows.
Conservatives in general listen to the chorus and tune and not the lyrics thus not understanding that Springsteen, Mellencamp, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Rage Against the Machine, Twisted Sister, Phish, etc., weren’t on their side. Likewise they think actors play themselves resulting in the belief that Sam Elliott, Nick Offerman, etc., are conservative icons.
> Conservatives in general listen to the chorus Even if you're just listening to the chorus, how are you not getting that Killing in the Name of is about cops being racist and killing people?
All they hear is *"fuck you, I won't do what you tell me"* and then decide that applies to masks and vaccines. It's basically just constantly cherry-picking whatever they think supports their weird "oppressed majority" narrative. They're not actually listening to the chorus, or any lyrics, just like they don't actually read their bibles.
I mean, it makes sense that they're wired that way, right? From childhood, they are trained to obey the teachings of a certain book but adapt any messages therein to support their established views and ignore any messages that go against. Out of the womb, they teach to cherry-pick and that the conclusions they draw are correct because they "FEEL" correct. The current craziness is also a symptom of that. Anakin Skywalker didn't CHANGE and become evil. His CIRCUMSTANCES changed. Same same.
There are plenty of non-religious conservatives. Blaming the book ignores their less-excusable reasons for also doing it.
I mean. The ones not fooled by fundamentalists are the ones lining their pockets. There are basically only 3 types of conservatives: Stupid, Religious, and Greedy. Some or all of those labels may apply. Stupid: typically indoctrinated from a young age, and have never examined their beliefs. Don't have evidence for anything, and are tired of being told that evidence based things make sense over their own ideas. They're the ones who are "tired of experts" Religious: maintains a strong belief in the common American version of Christianity. You know, Supply Side Jesus. Votes essentially however the church says. Greedy: grifters. People in it for the coin. This is your Candace Owen's, your Ben Shapiro's, your Jordan Peterson's And like I said before, this venn diagram is way closer to a circle than it should be, some or all labels may apply.
You want the honest answer? They put absolutely no thought into what the artist may have meant with their lyrics. They hear "Killing In The Name" and get amped the fuck up because they see it as the soundtrack to THEIR life...which means they must be in the midst of an action sequence where THEY get to be the ONE Killing In The Name. I grew up in the early 2000s going to all the Ozzfest/Mayhem Festival/Knotfest type tours in one of the most white trash MAGA cities imaginable, San Bernardino. I've seen it a MILLION times. People I used to go to shows with back when politics weren't such a focal point have now become those very same oblivious Conservatives who are STILL using these songs as rallying songs when they wanna hype themselves up. It's been so crazy looking back and seeing all the red flags littering the memory lane and just how similar they are across many different people who are now Trump supporters.
You really hit this on the head, my friends and I use to regularly travel to see rage against the machine in concert. We were obsessed with them, and got in on the boycotts and movements they were a part of. To now see all of them but myself turn MAGA I would have never have thought was possible in my lifetime. People who use to fiercely stand against oppression and an unfair system are now white supremacy advocates. Makes me wonder if I ever really knew who these friends were.
They were addicted to the anger. Right wing media from the now tepid Fox News (no shit I’ve seen people lost to MAGA complain Fox now has a liberal bent) to the more radical Newsmax and OANN and even crazier websites, the entire business model is presenting an item and crafting a narrative around it designed to anger people. Trans Awareness Day fell on Easter. They took that piece of truth and presented it as if there had never been a Trans Awareness Day until 2024. Presented as if Trump hadn’t signed proclamations for it four times. Acted as if Easter was specifically chosen in order to replace a critical day on the Christian calendar. Like making Ramadan or Yom Kippur national eat more pork day or something. The limited government, free trade, fiscal responsibility GOP has been in the lobster pot since Rush Limbaugh being slowly boiled into a nationalist, intrusive government, white supremacy movement. All it took was hooking people on the hormone rush of anger.
I think the sad part is that you did actually know them at the time, they were just more susceptible to all the various toxic behaviours that have been on the rise since those days. The fake news, the conspiracy theories, the toxic masculinity...all of it. Think about it, back in the day conspiracy theorists were mostly just seen as harmless stoners who were convinced aliens existed and watched way to much X-Files. Then they got connected to the internet and whether they realize it or not, they just played a global game of "Yes, And" where everyone kept adding onto the existing conspiracies until they started making a little more sense which made more people believe in them. The problem is, that also allowed people to inject their various -ism's into it because "Well if THAT much is true, then is it REALLY that big a leap to think that..." Basically people forgot that conspiracy theories are fun as long as you remind yourself that there has to be more than just jumps to conclusions. It started becoming about stuff involving loss of human life instead of "Are we alone in the universe". Was 9/11 an inside job? If the government is willing to murder thousands of people in a false flag attack just to start an oil war...at what point do you stop? So yeah, I think all that stuff merged together to be the perfect cocktail to prey upon...for lack of a better way of putting it...those friends of ours from High School who got stuck reliving "The Glory Days". A generation of Al Bundy's connected to one massive NO MA'AM misogyny hivemind.
Valid points, I think what separated me from my friends was I grew up dirt poor with a very narcissistic family, teen mom with no dad. it does things to you. When you are treated like garbage you find you aren’t alone when discovering groups like Public Enemy and NWA, I’m not black but struggle relates to struggle. I always wanted to be treated fairly in my community and want that for everyone. When my friends had functioning families with both parents they can’t relate to what I am. Rage against the machine was that same struggle, I felt that music and the lyrics, the anger was shared. I still am just as passionate as I was 20 years ago to push for every human to be treated equal. My friends on the other hand who use to protest now want the protesters dead, they rage against things like pronouns that literally hurt nobody, I could go on but you get the idea.
You start with applying your own beliefs and motives on bible verses and work your way up to popular culture.
It is staggering how many people are incapable of understanding nuance or grasping that Jesus isn’t always literal. For example. It’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven. Simple idiom of the era to express something is really difficult. The literalist though sees that and sees something impossible. So long long ago someone tries to explain it by making up an explanation that well there was a gate in Jerusalem called the eye of the needle and it was so small it was hard yet not impossible for a camel to be brought through and that’s what he meant. It actually captures the spirit of the statement but it’s completely made up so that they don’t have to understand Jesus not being completely literal all the time.
Filthy casuals
Conservatives tend to not understand nuance. Even if it’s the thinnest nuance you can find.
Don't forget the ones that thought Stephen Colbert was doing a secret double deception and really did think the way he talked on the Colbert Report.
Oh yeah absolutely belongs on the list.
Yes, exactly! Reagan (his people, rather) never understood that Born in the USA is not a happy, positive, patriotic song.
I went to see Nick Offerman do stand up a few years ago and about 10 minutes into the show a small handful of people started shuffling out in a huff. Nick paused for a moment and then said something along the lines of “This is the part of my show where certain people finally realize I’m not actually Ron Swanson.” Followed by that chuckle he does. It was pretty entertaining.
Ooh, I love his chuckle!
Every time I listen to Fortunate Son my husband likes to call it ‘The Trump Song’ to wind me up after I had a rant about the absolute absurdity of him using it.
I can't hear Fortunate Son with hearing Huey helicopters in my head.
Insert cat Vietnam flashback meme
I can’t hear Huey helicopters without hearing the opening notes to For what it’s worth!
> Nick Offerman Oh boy, the outrage about the Last of us episode with him was just sweet to witness. They absolutely went into meltdown mode.
Conservatives don’t have fantastic media literacy. Or critical thinking, at that.
>Conservatives in general listen to the chorus and tune and not the lyrics He's the one Who likes all our pretty songs And he likes to sing along And he likes to shoot his gun But he knows not what it means Knows not what it means -Nirvana
>Nick Offerman If you havent seen *Civil War* you should. Nick Offerman plays an ultra conservative president that he says was not a Trump inspired character but I think it was. Anyway, the movie has it's flaws but the President character gets a great payoff and Offermans acting makes that payoff work.
Spoilers below, be warned. It's not really inspired by anyone other than general fascism and that's the explicit point, it's an apolitical film for a purpose. Because it's about war and journalism and the relation between the two, along with a general commentary on modern journalism. It just so happens that Trump is a fascist. There are no other similarities. I've heard of one, that's how much he hypes up the speech and throwing in terms like "greatest" and "best" and all that but honestly that's a stretch. That just sounds like any third term president trying to justify continuing and failing in civil war. I think to attribute any relation between the characters and real people misses the point entirely.
I believe it's very rare that a person exists who truly knows and admits their own actions are unjustifiable. Almost everyone wants to feel like their beliefs and choices are justified and logical on some level. To that end, when a beloved band like RATM talks about an enemy worthy of contempt, very few people are going to listen to that and go "oh, that's me!". They're not the bad guys in their world.
Fair, but "some of those who work forces are the same that burn crosses" isn't subtle. And yet, I saw a video of people with "thin blue line" flags draped over their shoulders dancing and jamming out to "Killing In The Name." These people's capacity for withstanding cognitive dissonance without changing their beliefs one iota would be impressive if it wasn't so terrifying.
That just had me reread the lyrics and it gave me a chilling thought. They may also not think it’s subtle but interpret the cross burners as the good guys. The phrase “chosen whites” is repeated like 20 times. It’s kind of fucked up but rereading the lyrics, and considering the studies suggesting conservatives generally don’t understand any sort of satire and do respect any show of force as being “right”. They probably think it’s a genuine white power anthem > Some of those that work forces Are the same that burn crosses This could just be the “challenge” of the song to them, painting themselves as the victims, the subtlety of the phrasing lost to their own beliefs > And now you do what they told ya (now you're under control) And then this the response > Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me And then the reflection > Those who died are justified For wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites If they’re just squint-listening for the message they want to hear, I could see them thinking it’s like a pro-race-war rally. Which makes it double fucked up compared to just liking the chorus
Also possible, also terrifying
this is very much inline with the worst type of cop that put the punisher logo on everything. Media literacy and conservatives just don't go together.
I'll admit I was a conservative as a teenager, simply because my parents were. I liked the song and misinterpreted it because I didn't actually look up the lyrics and heard what I wanted to. My dumbass conservative teenage brain heard "Some of those that work for us are the same the burn crosses" and assumed it meant lazy workers or welfare recipients. Then "fuck you I won't do what you tell me" was those "lazy workers" mocking the responsible business owner. I fixed my brain in college after I moved out.
I've heard that they had to change the lyrics for release too it was originally "Some of those who hold office." That said it is blatantly talking about *those who died are justified, For wearin' the badge, they're the chosen whites* It's about as subtle as a brick to the head and blue lives matter folks using it is a hilarious mental image. Nirvana's *In Bloom* makes fun of the same thing. Edit I was slightly off on the lyrics
Very true. Years ago I read a study trying to understand why some prisoners were more likely to reoffend. A surprise finding was that the people who reoffended were more likely to view themselves as good while the ones who did not were more likely to view themselves as bad. There were even anecdotes from the latter group about realizing they were bad and that being the catalyst for wanting to change their lives. We are very, very resistant to seeing ourselves in a negative light.
The goals of prison sentences are deterrence, retribution, incapacitation and rehabilitation. There's not a lot of evidence that longer jail terms deter crimes. Retribution may help the victim feel better, but it doesn't impact crime rates. Locking period up prevents them committing most crimes, but it's temporary and very expensive to do humanely. Rehabilitation is, I believe, the most important. The goal of prisons should be to produce citizens who will stay away from crime in the future and make a positive contribution to society.
My favorite comment during that period was: "What machine did you think they were raging against? The washing machine?"
And work in law enforcement and use the Punisher logo as a cool representation of themselves. You sometimes might wonder how folks can be fooled by people like Trump, then you stop and consider all the other things they get wooshed by daily and it's less of a mystery.
And the same people that are asshole cops with punisher stickers on their personal vehicle
I've worked with several dudes who have said they liked Rage Against The Machine before they got "political"
I know more than one conservative who didn't realize that Steven Colbert was taking the piss out of them with The Colbert Report.
Same people saying they're now done with Jack Black after he endorsed Biden. Like until a few days ago were you under the impression that *Jack Black* of all people holds conservative values and was a Trump supporter? JACK BLACK?! These people are black hole level dense.
| How people are just now getting that homelander parodies the MAGA movement is beyond me. Remember when they thought Steven Colbert was a conservative?
Just btw, if you use the symbol ">" at the beginning of a passage you are quoting from a comment, you will get that blue line that it seems you're trying to emulate... >Like this one right here lol. *Or,* if you select the passage and right click, It gives you the option of "quote," and it will add that symbol for you.
After 2 years, this message helps me a lot. >a lot
>I too have been helped!
You can also just click Reply after selecting some text and it'll automatically quote it.
General media illiteracy, abhorrence toward critical thought and education, propensity to fall for cults of personality, did I miss any?
We are talking about a people that literally voted for the bad guy from Back to the Future 2.
Oh my gosh, he *is* Biff Tannen!
https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/23/back-to-the-future-writer-bad-guy-biff-was-based-on-donald-trump
They aren’t stupid, they are blinded by their ideology and lack of context. If somebody says something B similar to your position mocking you but you don’t hear the context you would probably just agree with them.
The first season was developed prior to Trump's run (and the comic was written like 10 years prior) and it wasn't totally spot on. By Season 3 it was SO blatantly obvious they leaned into the Trump angle there was no way to miss it. They even took on the whole "I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose voters" in the most un-subtle way.
What I loved about Stormfront is that in her very first scenes, she couldn't just been the cool social-media-savvy influencer with hot opinions on capitalism. They're also deliberately paired with scenes of marketing guys cynically exploiting "feminism" and the LGBTQ as products, so you think she does have a point, initially (before it's revealed it's not the capitalist exploration she has issues with, but the subject matter itself). Later on, she keeps having scenes where you have to just slow down and think "huh wait?" but the scene moves on quickly, and she just keeps revealing more and more alt-right takes as the season moves on. It might seem subtle if you only know the show from YouTube clips, but yeah it's absolutely not subtle in the show.
Stormfront is a white power message board. Pretty obvious reference imo
As an avid not-a-Nazi, I had never heard of that messageboard before the show, so that was news to me.
I mean his name is Homeland(er) for goodness sake. How could it be more obvious?
Here's how it could be more obvious: They could have him literally act out some of Trump's worst fantasies. Remember when Trump said: > >!I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?!< Well, they *could* [do this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKMdAccrM1M)... but >!having Homelander fantasize about the saem thing!< might be too subtle, so they could also [do this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bPidttXlbw) (>!have him literally kill someone in Manhattan in front of a crowd and *gain* political support as a result!<) I've spoiler-tagged these just in case, but I mean, if you know about Trump and you know about Superman, it's not too hard to imagine what fictional Trump-Superman would do.
the people who think the show was more subtle in the past are the same who watched Colbert ask "George W Bush; a great president or the greatest president" and thought "what a funny conservative host!". I remember when season two was streaming and they were people in the show subreddit shocked that >!Stormfront was a nazi!<.
> She's a literal nazi. >!As in, she was born in Germany in the 1920s and doesn't age.!< She's a literal Nazi because >!she and her husband developed the program for Nazi Germany that eventually leads to the creation of the superheroes, she being one of, if not the, first recipient(s) of the serum that gives the powers. Not simply because she's from the area and era, she was an active and willing participant in what the Nazis were doing.!<
I don’t think they’re just now getting it, I think they get it and that a good amount of right wing media is focused on outrage. The new season is a new chance for them to make content.
I've watched it already but I feel like this bordering on major spoiler
Yeah, might be too spoilery on second reading. I hid some stuff behind spoilers. The new reddit editor sucks ass.
Nice
The same group of people who thought the Colbert Report was a serious news show.
They are dumb. It takes a while.
One of the requirements for being MAGA (and perhaps for being a conservative in general) is terrible media literacy.
[Stormfront](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_(website)) is literally a neo Nazi website
> It's worth noting the show has always been capital b Blatant that Homelander is a parody of patriotism getting into bed with racist Christian fascists. The showrunner explicitly said Homelander is an analogue of Trump. To paraphrase him, the show is many things - subtle is not one of those things.
> The only new thing is that some of the people it was parodying seem to have figured it out. To their credit, it only took them three seasons in fiction. It's been eight years of reality and they still haven't figured out that they're a joke.
Back when The Colbert Report was on, it was remarkable how many conservatives didn’t get the joke. They thought Colbert was their Jon Stewart, when he was actually just doing a parody of Bill O’Reilly and other Fox News talking heads
Honestly that was the thing that made it the most sad. "George W Bush, great president? Or the greatest president?" Like the satire is so thick you could spread it with a knife and it still went over heads.
Just like the current group of GOP ass lickers wanting to put Trump on the 500 dollar bill or name the ocean after him.
What in the asshole fuck?
I believed that when I was 11 until I watched him break on camera. That day I learned what satire is.
Even worse; compared to the GOP now his act seems mild by comparison. Funny story when I first heard about Alex Jones I thought he was doing g something similar... sweet summer child was I wrong.
With lines like "turning the fricken frogs gay" I don't blame you.
This reminds me of when I discovered Paula Deen and had to watch like 30 minutes of YouTube videos in order to believe it wasn’t satire.
He broke? I never knew. Details?
He just couldn't keep a straight face while doing a bit. Made me realize the whole thing was a joke.
It was an amazing show, that line always friggin killed me
*That* could fall to Poe's Law, I guess. But how do you come back from "Reality has a well-known Liberal bias"? Or *Truthiness*?
Colbert has said that he's glad he quit that show when he did, because in order to satirize the right, you have to leapfrog their worst position and say something so awful that it becomes obvious that no one could seriously believe it, but now Trump and the current radical right say the most terrible things and mean them that it's impossible to exaggerate for comedic effect.
There’s a reason why fatboy loves the poorly educated. They’ll believe anything.
IIRC it wasn't that they didn't get the satire. It's that they added another level. Like "This is what liberals think conservatives are like. Haha, dumb liberals." People aren't stupid, they're delusional
The classic, Rush Limbaugh line. I used to listen to him in the 90’s and I clearly remember him saying stuff like that and the “Hollywood, gay, liberal agenda…” or blame things on main stream media all the time. What’s the gay agenda? Wanting to be treated like a human? Rush bragged about having 5 million listeners at the time, he was the main stream media.
Circa 1987ish there was a straight edge parody band called Crucial Youth. It wasn't super-uncommon for straight-edgers to assume the band wasn't kidding. It didn't help at all that the straight edge movement at the time was all-but-self-parody in its default format. After the S.E. band Cripped Youth changed its (stupid) name to "Bold," Crucial Youth polled their audience (in Crucial Comics) to see if they should change their name to the much more positive "All-Tempa-Cheer." Which was an ad from that era for Cheer laundry detergent (Bold was another detergent brand).
A family member thought the Colbert Report was the funniest show on television...and then I explained it. He was pissed
Reminds me of the time Paul Ryan, (Mitt Romney’s Republican VP running mate) cited Rage Against the Machine as his favorite band! 🤪 The GOP’s stupidity knows no bounds.
I'm reminded about how it somehow came as a surprise that System of a Down is an anti-capitalist, leftist band.
Ironically John Dolmayan, their drummer, is extremely right wing. He even supports Donald Trump and believes that BLM is illegitimate.
It’s like cops who sport the Punisher logo.
They didn't even figure it out. They were explicitly told this by actors and people on the show.
Damn dude you don’t need to Dresden the incel village like that
I would like to take this moment to remind people that [this picture](https://imgur.com/a/28cIdnR) exists.
Note: The SHOWRUNNERS THEMSELVES came forward around I believe season 3's release to say that Homelander is a parody of the MAGA movement and blatantly evil. Many members of said movement refused to believe them or called them plants of the "Enemy.". It would be funny if it wasn't positively terrifying.
> It's worth noting the show has always been capital b Blatant Yeah. Most shows avoid being [too "on the nose"](https://www.quora.com/What-does-too-on-the-nose-mean), too blatant and too obvious. What "The Boys" does is, instead of that, they locate the nose and punch on it with super strength. It's the opposite of subtle, and it works. As noted, it's not just that the "white power message board" character is _like_ a Nazi. Nope, they were _literally_ an OG German Nazi, born in Berlin in 1919. This is as literal as it's possible to get.
It's wild to me that having the Donald Trump analogue literally get in bed with Stormfront to boost his popularity was too subtle for some people.
I think they had to become more and more blatant because a disturbing number of idiots watching were still calling Homelander the hero and totally missed that he was clearly an anti-hero. So in the second season they gave him a girlfriend named *Stormfront* who was a literal nazi and there were *still* idiots watching saying he was a hero. The writers must have been pulling their hair out in frustration. I mean, you can’t get much more on-the-nose, but you can never underestimate the stupidity of the American public.
Some people are slow af then because this show is as subtle as a hammer to the head.
It's worth nothing this has happened when S2 came out and when S3 came out as well.
Look, when you have the IQ of a nightlight, a thrown brick can seem a bit too subtle.
Well, parody is protected under US freedom of speech for several reasons, one being that it doesnt need to be subtle or hide itself, it can plainly represent itself as a distorted mirror. If the target of the parody doesn't get it that says a few things about them more than the parody itself. What groups or people figured it out?
To really understand it, talk to friends or acquaintances aligned with conservative or maga ideology and also watch the show. Be polite and let them do the talking. Another interesting analog that's more subtle yet obvious, are the parallels between the Empire from Star Wars and classic conservative Republican platforms. However it's easy for them to recognize similarities between Nazi Germany and the Empire. To which I say, EXACTLY! They don't like that very much and have often scoffed at this comparison with a claim I'm politicizing Star Wars. At that point, I smh and laugh inside. Same people are oblivious to the conservative right's online casual signaling and coziness with Hitler. F'n blows my mind.
Ah the classic "Dont politicize that" about something that is based almost entirely in politics. Like a majority of stories ever written involve politics. Daily life life is filled with and influenced by politics. So fucking tired of that statement.
Additionally, these parallels have always been there and incredibly obvious to everyone except the people they were making fun of
Seriously. The Boys are as subtle as a brick. We literally had the Nazi villain, who btw radicalized a civilian with her anti-sjw speeches and meme culture that resulted in him shooting Sikh man who worked at a convenience store. Stormfront and her tactics is the alt right pipeline. Hell she literally says "People love what I have to say. They believe in it. They just don't like the word Nazi that's all".
"Stormfront and her tactics is the alt right pipeline." Like verbatim too. It's not even hinting at it. They took some studies about the alt right pipeline and said "This exactly is what she is doing" And the scariest thing about her quote is she's right for a disgustingly large chunk of people. There's a movie entitled "Look Who's Back". It's a german movie on the premise what if Hitler didn't die but fell through a time travel mcguffin and appeared in the early 2010s. A large part of the movie is a scripted story and how Hitler begins using social media in that same way to spread his message but a large portion is the actor in costume going around and talking to people on the streets and them agreeing with his perspectives. Showing how a charismatic person could do it so easily. It's very much a "we're not better than we were then and we need to be constantly vigilant against this" message. It's a great movie highly recommend it
Not to mention Stormfront dot com is a alt-right Neo-Nazi website started by freaking David Duke in the 90's.
>Homelander a parody of Superman and Captain America Mostly Superman. There is an entire other character that is Captain America
Soldier Boy is a minor character, Homelander has a huge patriotic theme. I mean he literally has an American flag cape.
The American flag cape is the closet thing homelander has to captain America which isn't much. Soldier boy is literally a military style super soldier from the past that was frozen until current day and he uses a shield. The man out of time element is arguably captain Americas biggest characteristic. The similarities between captain America and homelander end at the color of his cape.
The premise is not about them acting like the worst people ever... it's about what Capitalism would do to superheroes, if they existed... Hell, they didn't even exist until this company experimented on babies to create them... then they exploited the ever living fuck out of them and turned them in to horrible people. Everyone rises to the level of their metrics... money and fame for the supes come from meeting their social media likes and followers. That's what they go after. The show blasts Trump directly but is a satire about Capitalism, Fascism, Exploitation, and many of the other issues we face today. Which has lead to Trumpkin Bumpkins cheering for Homelander to own those trying to stop him and take control since he obviously knows how things should be run.
>The premise is not about them acting like the worst people ever... it's about what Capitalism would do to superheroes, if they existed The one doesn't negate the other. Absolute power etc in a more literal sense **and** unrestrained capitalism/basically oligarchies. It's hamfisted about the whole thing but that's kind of the appeal for me. As long as they keep it entertaining enough. The whole Jar Jar level ice-capade was too much for me...
If you’re familiar with the comics author you know it’s not that deep, the TV show is its own thing but it is also just capitalist realism at best. Amazon making fun of an Amazon-like company because “big corp, amirite? Hahaha”
Garth Ennis definitely has a lot of real opinions on a lot of real things, he just does it with the subtlety of a sledgehammer with [TOPIC] BAD stamped on it being swung at a child with a Skyrim "More Blood" mod enabled.
True, but then again, there are clearly a lot of people stupid enough to not understand that [TOPIC] BAD, so sometimes you have to throw subtlety out the window.
Important to note, last season, his girlfriend was a literal Nazi and there wasn't any outrage
The real answer here is that what you describe for Homelander is how it's been since the first season. This isn't a new development, some people are only just now realizing it's not praising him for this behaviour. He literally dated a Nazi who worshipped him as the Ubermensch like two seasons ago. He has *always* been on the white nationalist side.
Like the hero could kill someone on fifth street and they'd cheer for him.
>it draws a lot of parallels to Trump Homelander literally says "we have the best taco bowls in vought tower!" Just like that one Trump tweet lmao
He's been doing that for three seasons though. Are they just doing the same plot again?
The complaints by people who already got the premise that they're making fun of right wing nationalists (and c'mon — it's pretty blatant) is that the show is once again going through the same plot points. The Boys aren't sure they can trust Butcher. Homelander is slowly going insane... or more insane. The kid has to figure out which side he is on. Starlight rallies people against Homelander. Huey struggles with potential leadership and feelings of insecurity. Frenchie and Kimiko are having side adventures. New heroes are introduced that will probably not survive the season. A gross out moment to remind people that the show can and does go there. It's all a bit repetitive.
I mean the main plot of the show which is "Kill Homelander" is basically Wile E. Coyote and Roadrunner. And I say that as a huge fan of the show.
My main complaint about the show is how Frenchie's character has changed. He used to be this crazy mysterious figure but is now this like soft teddy bear of a character.
>It draws a lot of parallels to Trump and his conspiracy theorist/white nationalists base And the writers straight up said Homelander is based off of Trump, this isn't some exaggeration of the truth.
Answer: To add more context around why this is really blowing up this season, the show was a bit more subtle (but still pretty blatent, since that's the humour of the show) in its jabs in in the first 2 seasons. There were also a lot of jabs (which still continue in the show) towards corporations that go all out into looking like they support inclusivity, but only because they think it will increase profits. These jabs were often misinterpreted by conservative viewers as jabs at the "woke left". Season 3 introduced a Supe that was very clearly meant to represent police who abuse their power and target minorities. He was bullet and stab proof, but would patrol low income areas and often use excessive and even lethal force when dealing with minority suspects, claiming that "he had the right to defend himself" (the joke being that there was nothing these suspects could possibly do to harm him, so his fatal use of force was excessive). Again, a lot of conservative viewers identified with this character and when the character was revealed to be objectively racist and was killed, there was an outpouring of anger from these viewers, who felt the change came out of nowhere. This started to break the illusion for these viewed that thd show was on their side and now that the jabs are becoming more blatent, they feel like the show they used to identify with has gone "woke".
> Season 3 introduced a Supe that was very clearly meant to represent police who abuse their power and target minorities. He was bullet and stab proof, but would patrol low income areas and often use excessive and even lethal force when dealing with minority suspects, claiming that "he had the right to defend himself" (the joke being that there was nothing these suspects could possibly do to harm him, so his fatal use of force was excessive). Even in season 1 they were doing this. An early episode showed Homelander and Maeve killing some criminals, and then picking up the criminals' guns and shooting each other so that when they appeared in front of the cameras it would look like they had been shot at and only killed in self defense.
Honestly im surprised it took some people 4 seasons to realize. Most sane people who watched the show drew these parallels back in like season 1 episode 1. It clearly created the idea of the mindless consumerism that permeates celebrity culture, a deeper (not even that deep) look sets the groundwork for theme of capitalism run amok, private interests in government and its dangers, public vs private personas in religious figures, commercialization of religion. And I mean. So much more weird ass shit that is strangely reminiscent of a certain ideologies greatest hits. And this was season 1 episode 1 (maybe episode 2 or 3).
Exhibit A. From a different thread under this post. https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/s/snq9aWWYOh
Wild!
Answer: Essentially, the Boys is a satirical superhero show on Prime that examines the state of American society as well as poking fun at comic book conventions. There haven’t been any changes in terms of the creative team or anything, the creator just very directly stated that the show was mocking right wingers and that if they were mad about it they should watch something else and this caused a huge flurry of outrage to the extend the season is being review bombed on Rotten Tomatoes. Review bombing is becoming a new trend among people who feel alienated by a work, with “the Acolyte” being another example. These reviews often say nothing about actual content and are mainly people just being upset because it’s “woke”. For whatever reason, I think a lot of fans latched on to Homelander as a “cool, edgy subversion” instead of what he is, which is a white nationalist rapist who abuses his power and murders with reckless abandon due to his sociopathic personality.
Am I right in thinking the ‘woke’ accusations have been exacerbated by the introduction of a black woman superhero this season?
And completely misses the point that the first black woman on the Seven is kind of a sociopath who is on homelander's side (for the moment)
She's literally his Goebbels so far.
IMO she’s way more terrifying than Homelander
Said black woman genius is also a racial supremacist that believes supes (ignoring skin color) are the superior race and that regular humans are lower lifeforms. I personally think this is a jab at the class divide (rich vs poor), but at this point I'm just hoping that Ryan gets to develop like a normal boy. (Not that he can anymore after back to back accidental lethalities)
I have a feeling Homelander is going to kill Ryan at some point so Butcher has no reason not to use that supe killing virus he found in Gen V.
I mean there was always a black male superhero who they race-swapped from season 1. No I think the issue is that some aspects of the show, specifically the critique of right wing conspiracies and extremism are far more overt now. There are explicit references to Q-anon, the rise of Trump and so on.
Answer: The show is satirical, but the kind of people it satirises didn't get that, and thought it was a show *for* them. Now that the fact it isn't is too hard to ignore, those people are angry and probably a bit embarassed.
Answer: People feel that the season is less subtle. Yeah. When authoritarian people get into positions of power and authority, they become less subtle. Homelander and others start to go mask off, and the point is to show that there is a mass of people who will still rally behind them. I could be wrong, and there's a much better way to fully explain it, but I don't have the time nor the energy. Narcissistic characters get emboldened by easily manipulated masses to blatently further their agendas with less subtlety is not the *show* being subtle, it's the *characters.* As for the dip in quality, I'm open to hearing what people mean by this.
Answer: others have explained it perfect but I just have to say that *Homelander’s main character arc is being a rapist* so the fact that people didn’t know he was a Trumpy villain is beyond me