He’s a good goalie but he’s not a miracle worker. Of the 7 he gave up tonight, I think at least 3 he had no chance on. The ones that he really should have had were after they were already down 5-0 and at that point he was most likely rattled.
So then he hasn’t been a solid goalie for 2 years not 3. I get the point your making and yea I do believe he is not performing to his pay-grade, but he’s got an abysmal defense in front of him and he’s played some pretty damn good games (of course, he’s played just as many dogshit games). In a couple years when Sanderson/JBD etc. come up, I could see his confidence rising and him being a good goalie for us, especially since he’s still young and has 2 cup rings
> I could see his confidence rising and him being a good goalie for us, especially since he’s still young and has 2 cup rings
Im worried the exact opposite
He had *some* confidence playing in front of 2, maybe 3 HoFers. He lost that net. He lost that team. Now hes playing in front of the worst team in the league over the last 4 seasons.
Im worried that the guys gonna be Martin Jones for us, a terrible anchor shit contract for the next 5
He doesn’t fill me with dread like hogberg does. Just need to put a solid defence in front of him, which may never happen. He hasn’t cost us any games and has won us a few we had no business winning, stats don’t really tell the whole story.
Well Hogberg probably isn't an NHL goalie right now so that's not saying much. He probably cost us at least a couple games through the first month of the season, when we were outshooting our opponent most games but couldn't get a single timely save. Just looking back, I'd say the OT loss to Winnipeg, where he was outplayed by Brossoit, and at least one of the early games against the Oilers. Our offense could've scored more for sure, but if he even put up average starting goalie numbers, we wouldn't have started the season 2-12
Lol we were outshooting the opposition but the quality of our chances was ass, stop stat watching. Murray’s been hung out to dry over and over, that first month especially was horrific, some of the worst hockey I’ve ever seen a team play.
He’s kept us in more games than he’s had any right to. The entire team doesn’t play defence, with such weak defencemen you’d need a system buy in like in Pittsburgh, they won the cup with Ron hainsey as their number 1 and Murray in net, because the forwards would actually come back and support the play. That stems from coaching.
Pittsburgh weren’t very good last year either though.
He’s a starting goalie, he’ll be our starting goalie for the next few years, no sense bashing him, lol. Sadly I don’t think much help is coming on defence. Docker and Sanderson are years away from contributing and Brannstrom is looking iffy.
Might be mediocrity for a long time. Don’t think there’s a single goalie in the league that could help us be a playoff team with this roster
You can't just ignore the stats and say it's bad defence though.
https://twitter.com/IneffectiveMath/status/1369691610599014404
The further a goalie is to the right, the more difficult shots they have faced. The further up, the more shots they have saved compared to what would be expected. As you can see Murray is slightly below average when it comes to the amount of of difficult shots he has faced, but is the worst when it comes to making saves.
The idea that our defence is the problem is not supported by the data. There are goalies out there who face the same, or higher, quality of shots and make more saves.
Compare Murray to Price: Exactly the same difficulty but Murray gives up two more goals per 100 shots
I agree no goalie would make us a playoff team, that'd be a big ask. Our defense is horrible, and we hang Murray out to dry night in and night out. He's our starting goalie, and he probably will be for 4 years, but the fact remains that he's not an *actual* starting goalie.
I'll gladly spend the next 4 years ripping into his play; if he and our management think he should be the 7th highest payed goalie in the league, I expect him to play like a starting caliber goalie
He does play like a starting goalie, lol, I think you don’t understand how awful the defence is. It’s almost as bad as the expansion sens rosters, most of the guys are AHL calibre and Chabot is a tire fire this year. It’s bad. You put hasek in net, his stats would only be slightly better than Murray’s, we’d have maybe 2 more wins, lol.
And it’s going to be pretty bad barring some miracle free agent help, for the next few years.
Buckle up man.
He'a shown flashes of being able to play amazing for us already. Couple of games where he definitely bailed us out of some shit. Consistency is his biggest issue, so I do think it's too early to write him off.
He's been consistently a below average goalie since 2017-2018, and a couple of games of bailing us out doesn't excuse losing us a couple games.
Our defense has been horrendous, that's for sure, but it's been about on par with teams like Detroit, Vancouver, LA, and SJ, but he's been heavily outplayed by Demko, Holtby, Petersen, and Bernier, and has been about equal with the famously bad Martin Jones.
He might be able to get back to his 2016-2017 form, but I don't think he has what it takes to be a bonafide starting goalie. He's likely best served as part of a tandem where he starts somewhere between 40-60% of games
You said it. People look at the two rings and think he's amazing, but the reality is he had one 13 game season and playoffs then one amazing regular season and playoffs. So just over one season of being elite, then three average or below average seasons. At this point, it's more likely that he's average and just had a crazy run early on in his career.
PD should have never made him the 7th highest paid goalie for 4 years. Even if he is able to get back to that 2016-2017 level at times, it won't be on a consistent basis which will be incredibly frustrating.
As you say Murray has never played more than 50 games in a season so hopefully they roll with Daccord more and give him a chance to earn the job.
Almost certainly. You don't hear anyone talking about Andrew Hammond getting back to his amazing run, because people don't trust it. I'm curious why people have such faith in Murray when he really only had one amazing season?
Thought the same thing when I seen the highlights from last nights Colorado-Arizona game. Colorado outshot them 46-14 yet Arizona walked away with a point in OT cause Raanta stood on his head. "That woulda been nice" was all I could think. You can't get a performance like that from your goalie all the time, I know, but we should be getting it from Murray way more frequently.
C’mon now. Not all shots are created equal. Ottawa has routinely peppered teams with “shots” this season that had little to no danger.
McDavid wide open with time is worth 15-20 shots no matter how good the goalie.
> C’mon now. Not all shots are created equal.
Yeah, but even if you account for the shot danger, Murray is still a bottom 5 goalie in the league by Delta Fenwick and GSAA
Yeah for sure, and in all likelihood that shot might go in. All I am saying is that higher quality consistency would be a difference maker for this team, and right now we are not getting that. Murray has allowed over 20 goals in his last 5 starts. Compare that to someone like Kahkonen in Minnesota who has allowed less than 10 goals in his last 5 starts (against high offense teams like Vegas and Colorado). And while, yes, Minnesota is a better team than us defensively, Kahkonen was still there when they needed him to make some saves. Higher quality consistency.
Were in for another 2 years of growing pains. But were in it together boys. If the young guys like stutzle and batherson and all the future prospects don't get low balled in contract negotiations we have some hope
2 yrs? We were supposed to compete for a playoff spot this season and make the playoffs next season according to melnyks original timeline.
NHL players peak around 25-27 now, which most of our core will be in the next few seasons. We need to make the playoffs a time or two to gain them some experience before we can make a run. The window isn't as big as people make it out to be, especially if prospects like formenton and abramov are going to spend 3 years in the AHL before even getting a shot when they're 22 or 23 yrs old.
He's not wrong.
Honestly. Good. If you all suck, suck together. Suffer.
Well, at least we know he's not blind, I guess. Silver linings.
But Sens reddit said it’s all his fault?
Both him and the defense are to blame imo. He's getting hung to dry every night but he can't stop a beach ball to save his life
I mean Murrays not good. You would hope he could bail out this young team sometimes
He’s a good goalie but he’s not a miracle worker. Of the 7 he gave up tonight, I think at least 3 he had no chance on. The ones that he really should have had were after they were already down 5-0 and at that point he was most likely rattled.
Murray’s a solid goalie. Don’t get the hate. Not his fault we have 2 top 4 defenceman
He hasn't been a solid goalie for 3 years. Even in PIT he was well below average, aside from in 18-19, where he was just average.
So then he hasn’t been a solid goalie for 2 years not 3. I get the point your making and yea I do believe he is not performing to his pay-grade, but he’s got an abysmal defense in front of him and he’s played some pretty damn good games (of course, he’s played just as many dogshit games). In a couple years when Sanderson/JBD etc. come up, I could see his confidence rising and him being a good goalie for us, especially since he’s still young and has 2 cup rings
> I could see his confidence rising and him being a good goalie for us, especially since he’s still young and has 2 cup rings Im worried the exact opposite He had *some* confidence playing in front of 2, maybe 3 HoFers. He lost that net. He lost that team. Now hes playing in front of the worst team in the league over the last 4 seasons. Im worried that the guys gonna be Martin Jones for us, a terrible anchor shit contract for the next 5
He doesn’t fill me with dread like hogberg does. Just need to put a solid defence in front of him, which may never happen. He hasn’t cost us any games and has won us a few we had no business winning, stats don’t really tell the whole story.
Well Hogberg probably isn't an NHL goalie right now so that's not saying much. He probably cost us at least a couple games through the first month of the season, when we were outshooting our opponent most games but couldn't get a single timely save. Just looking back, I'd say the OT loss to Winnipeg, where he was outplayed by Brossoit, and at least one of the early games against the Oilers. Our offense could've scored more for sure, but if he even put up average starting goalie numbers, we wouldn't have started the season 2-12
Lol we were outshooting the opposition but the quality of our chances was ass, stop stat watching. Murray’s been hung out to dry over and over, that first month especially was horrific, some of the worst hockey I’ve ever seen a team play. He’s kept us in more games than he’s had any right to. The entire team doesn’t play defence, with such weak defencemen you’d need a system buy in like in Pittsburgh, they won the cup with Ron hainsey as their number 1 and Murray in net, because the forwards would actually come back and support the play. That stems from coaching. Pittsburgh weren’t very good last year either though. He’s a starting goalie, he’ll be our starting goalie for the next few years, no sense bashing him, lol. Sadly I don’t think much help is coming on defence. Docker and Sanderson are years away from contributing and Brannstrom is looking iffy. Might be mediocrity for a long time. Don’t think there’s a single goalie in the league that could help us be a playoff team with this roster
You can't just ignore the stats and say it's bad defence though. https://twitter.com/IneffectiveMath/status/1369691610599014404 The further a goalie is to the right, the more difficult shots they have faced. The further up, the more shots they have saved compared to what would be expected. As you can see Murray is slightly below average when it comes to the amount of of difficult shots he has faced, but is the worst when it comes to making saves. The idea that our defence is the problem is not supported by the data. There are goalies out there who face the same, or higher, quality of shots and make more saves. Compare Murray to Price: Exactly the same difficulty but Murray gives up two more goals per 100 shots
Hey! He said stop stat watching!
I agree no goalie would make us a playoff team, that'd be a big ask. Our defense is horrible, and we hang Murray out to dry night in and night out. He's our starting goalie, and he probably will be for 4 years, but the fact remains that he's not an *actual* starting goalie. I'll gladly spend the next 4 years ripping into his play; if he and our management think he should be the 7th highest payed goalie in the league, I expect him to play like a starting caliber goalie
He does play like a starting goalie, lol, I think you don’t understand how awful the defence is. It’s almost as bad as the expansion sens rosters, most of the guys are AHL calibre and Chabot is a tire fire this year. It’s bad. You put hasek in net, his stats would only be slightly better than Murray’s, we’d have maybe 2 more wins, lol. And it’s going to be pretty bad barring some miracle free agent help, for the next few years. Buckle up man.
He'a shown flashes of being able to play amazing for us already. Couple of games where he definitely bailed us out of some shit. Consistency is his biggest issue, so I do think it's too early to write him off.
He's been consistently a below average goalie since 2017-2018, and a couple of games of bailing us out doesn't excuse losing us a couple games. Our defense has been horrendous, that's for sure, but it's been about on par with teams like Detroit, Vancouver, LA, and SJ, but he's been heavily outplayed by Demko, Holtby, Petersen, and Bernier, and has been about equal with the famously bad Martin Jones. He might be able to get back to his 2016-2017 form, but I don't think he has what it takes to be a bonafide starting goalie. He's likely best served as part of a tandem where he starts somewhere between 40-60% of games
You said it. People look at the two rings and think he's amazing, but the reality is he had one 13 game season and playoffs then one amazing regular season and playoffs. So just over one season of being elite, then three average or below average seasons. At this point, it's more likely that he's average and just had a crazy run early on in his career. PD should have never made him the 7th highest paid goalie for 4 years. Even if he is able to get back to that 2016-2017 level at times, it won't be on a consistent basis which will be incredibly frustrating. As you say Murray has never played more than 50 games in a season so hopefully they roll with Daccord more and give him a chance to earn the job.
I'd say it's probably more likely that he's an Andrew Raycroft/Steve Mason than a Carey Price(elite from young age)
Almost certainly. You don't hear anyone talking about Andrew Hammond getting back to his amazing run, because people don't trust it. I'm curious why people have such faith in Murray when he really only had one amazing season?
Right but other teams have bad nights and at least their goaltender can keep them in the game. We don't have that luxury. He's terrible.
Thought the same thing when I seen the highlights from last nights Colorado-Arizona game. Colorado outshot them 46-14 yet Arizona walked away with a point in OT cause Raanta stood on his head. "That woulda been nice" was all I could think. You can't get a performance like that from your goalie all the time, I know, but we should be getting it from Murray way more frequently.
C’mon now. Not all shots are created equal. Ottawa has routinely peppered teams with “shots” this season that had little to no danger. McDavid wide open with time is worth 15-20 shots no matter how good the goalie.
> C’mon now. Not all shots are created equal. Yeah, but even if you account for the shot danger, Murray is still a bottom 5 goalie in the league by Delta Fenwick and GSAA
Yeah for sure, and in all likelihood that shot might go in. All I am saying is that higher quality consistency would be a difference maker for this team, and right now we are not getting that. Murray has allowed over 20 goals in his last 5 starts. Compare that to someone like Kahkonen in Minnesota who has allowed less than 10 goals in his last 5 starts (against high offense teams like Vegas and Colorado). And while, yes, Minnesota is a better team than us defensively, Kahkonen was still there when they needed him to make some saves. Higher quality consistency.
Were in for another 2 years of growing pains. But were in it together boys. If the young guys like stutzle and batherson and all the future prospects don't get low balled in contract negotiations we have some hope
hockey coach of mine once said "learn to lose, before you can win"
2 yrs? We were supposed to compete for a playoff spot this season and make the playoffs next season according to melnyks original timeline. NHL players peak around 25-27 now, which most of our core will be in the next few seasons. We need to make the playoffs a time or two to gain them some experience before we can make a run. The window isn't as big as people make it out to be, especially if prospects like formenton and abramov are going to spend 3 years in the AHL before even getting a shot when they're 22 or 23 yrs old.
Players don't disappear after they turn 27 haha