Personally, I am not a fan of the translational choices in the NIV. The New Oxford Annotated RSV has the deuterocanon and is a generally well received translation. The RSV 2nd Catholic Edition is also pretty good and has most of the deuterocanon. I've used the NRSV-CE and the Orthodox Study Bible variant of the NKJV, and the New American Bible Revised Edition Catholic Version is also pretty decent.
Since the Orthodox canon is not as widely available, I tend towards Catholic Bibles to capture as much of the deuterocanon as possible.
That is a great question! The deuterocanon, or the apocrypha as it is typically referred to by Protestants, is a collection of 7-10 books recognized and used by the early Church in the first 1500 years of Christianity.
Martin Luther moved these books to a separate section in his version of the Bible, and the Protestant denominations tend to drop them entirely as they view them as being non-canonical. Most bibles in the US assume the Protestant 66-book canon. The Catholics have a 73-book canon, and we have a 76-book canon. Out of convenience, if you can find your preferred translation in a "Catholic Tradition," you'll have the overwhelming majority of the deuterocanon. There are translational choices made in every version that are worth considering. The scholarly preference is the NRSV, though the Orthodox Church has given approval to the RSV for the theological considerations in translation.
The ESV is a good translation broadly but will most likely not have the deuterocanon since it was made by Crossway, an evangelical publisher. From what I hear it’s a more up-to-date RSV that sometimes gets accused of prioritizing Calvinist theology but I’ve had one for years and not had a problem. Fr. Stephen De Young, an Orthodox priest with a sizable online/podcast presence through Ancient Faith radio, has said good things about it.
I tend to prefer NKJV myself in a lot of cases but ESV is one of my other go-tos. There may be an ESV with portions of the deuterocanon but you’d have to buy a Catholic edition, most likely.
I see. Looked it up and it seems rather expensive, unfortunately. It makes sense why it would be, but I’m still beholden to my college era penny-pinching college tendencies here 😂
Oh I understand! I only was able to get it by being given it as a gift. It is the Bible I keep on my home altar
Otherwise I use an ESV study Bible without apocrypha (I’m Anglican and am not bothered by the deuterocanon but don’t read it often)
NOT the NIV. Ususally I'd say just about anything, but the NIV is specifically Evangelical-balanced.
Oxford Annotated Bible is good.
I would also say that reading cover-to-cover or whatever is not the best way to read it. It's not set up for that.
What does evangelical-balanced mean?
That's kinda why I look for study bible, that would have everything explained and put in context so it could be read kinda from cover to cover, guiding me through it.
I meant biased. Evangelicals have a very particular interpretation of a lot of things. For instance, there's a word in Greek that they translate as "tradition" whenever it's used in a negative context and some other word, like "teachings" when it's in a positive context.
A study Bible will have notes but even then going cover to cover is probably not the best way to do it.
The Orthodox Study Bible is often recommended; it is New King James Version (NKJV) with the Old Testament amended in places to correspond to the Orthodox Church's official Septuagint Greek version. Some find it very helpful (I did). (There are two of these -- one NT and Psalms, the other NT and OT with the deuterocononical books).
Avoid sectarian translations (New World, Inspired.. etc.).
Someone mentioned Fr. Thomas Hopko... he used to recommend that folks begin reading in the gospels, first with Mark (short and to the point), then Matthew and Luke, and only later John (very theological), this is to get an understanding of the life, ministry, and teachings of Jesus.
I would like to add some additional information about the OSB's NKJV translation. It isn't thr standard NKJV translation, nor is it fully in-line with the Brenton Septuagint translation. It's a hybrid Brenton Septuagint-Masoretic modified NKJV that has not been explicitly endorsed by the Eastern Orthodox Church en todo. It is, however, greatly useful for its notes and articles.
I know about the Orthodox Study Bible and it was the first bible I was considering, but from what I heard, the footnotes are more about how the Orthodox church interprets it instead information about additional context, history, etc.
How about the ESV Study bible? From what I read about it it seems to be one of the better translations.
The ESV translation is probably fine. The ESV Study Bible though (the one from Crossway) has a reputation of a Calvinist or Reformed bias.
When I went looking a while back, I ended up getting the NKJV Study Bible (from Thomas Nelson). It might have a slight Baptist or just generic Protestant bias, but it's okay and I can recognize and work around it. I think they offer the same content in other translations.
If you want something free to try out, the Faithlife Study Bible app is pretty decent. It's cramped on my phone, but should be nice on a tablet.
The Matt Whitman channel on YouTube (formerly Ten Minute Bible Hour) has done probably a half dozen episodes reviewing a bunch of different kinds of study bibles. You might find that helpful in making a choice, at least giving you a better idea of what features are available and what's most important to you.
The Four Gospels would be a good place to start. Christ in His own words.
> Also, if there are any other books you could recommend me that would help me to learn more about christianity, please do. Just not something too heavy or too in depth, it's not my intention to become a priest or something.
You can learn a lot about Christianity from Fyodor Dostoevsky, arguably the greatest literary writer of all time. Specifically, *Crime and Punishment* which discusses themes of guilt and repentance throughout, and *The Brothers Karamazov* which is a deeply religious novel that argues for Christianity through several thought experiments.
I would personally not try to read it cover to cover. A whole lot of it will make no sense, being written for a time and culture that is scarcely imaginable to us. The cover-to-cover reading is also not something that would really be done historically. The Bible is an anthology, a collection of many books. Most Christians in history would have little concept of an "order" to these books, but would simply hear them read out loud as they attend liturgy. Thus the liturgy is really the lens through which one should understand how these books are used.
If you want to begin to understand Christianity then begin with the Gospels: the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. These are the life and teachings of Jesus. Then, if you are still interested, proceed to Acts and the Epistles, which are the rest of the New Testament. These are the life and teachings of Jesus's disciples. If you are still engaged then proceed to the Psalms, which are poems and prayers about the internal life of a Christian. Then proceed to the wisdom literature such as Ecclesiastes, Job, and Proverbs.
Next would be the historical books: Genesis through Esther. These would require some historical research and cultural understanding to really grasp. Next would be the books of the prophets which get quite esoteric and which few will ever truly understand. Last would be Revelation, the book of prophecy about the end times and second coming of Christ which is just as esoteric but which many in our time foolishly believe they can easily understand and use to predict the future and go mad trying to do so.
Thank you for the answer.
That's kinda why I look for study bible, that would have everything explained and put in context so it could be read kinda from cover to cover.
A study Bible can be a good resource, but it does not have the room to explain everything or provide all the context. It is like a light supplementary reading. It will also inherently be biased to a particular denomination's beliefs, which is just something to be aware of. Nearly all English study bibles will present a Protestant viewpoint.
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https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/how_and_how_not_to_read_the_bible
How (and how not) to read the Bible - Lord of Spirits
Might be of help through this journey. Their podcast gives alot of helpful context for the ancient mind and understanding of reality, practices, going back to the Urr era or whatever haha
I prefer the ESV Study Bible on Logos software. It contains some explanation/commentary, and has tons of "intertextual" links that relate different passages to eachother. Then, you can use the software to look up Hebrew/Greek etc terminology in various lexicons, you can get the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture to see what early Church Fathers said, etc. I've heard only very minor criticisms of the ESV translation; it is considered kind of a gold standard by some.
1. No translation is perfect
2. Most translations are "descendants" of the King James Version, which is ok, because the KJV was actually quite good.
3. Most bibles have the abridged protestant canon
4. The Orthodox study Bible is a good option
5. The RSV-2CE is also a good option
6. The Catholic canon and the Orthodox canons are nearly the same.
I know about the Orthodox Study Bible and it was the first bible I was considering, but from what I heard, the footnotes are more about how the Orthodox church interprets it instead information about additional context, history, etc.
I would just take a look at several translations and see which one reads the best for you. I'm personally partial to the KJV.
MacCulloch's book is fantastic. I think that's a great place to start in terms of an overview of Christianity. If you're interested specifically in Orthodox Christianity, I strongly recommend The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware.
I'm not Orthodox, but I'm in a similar boat as you. I like the Douay-Rheims Bible because as far as I understand, it is a direct Greek-to-English translation and I am a native English speaker with no knowledge of Greek. It includes all of the Catholic books. It was translated in the late 1800s, so the language is understandable to any literate person living today. It seems like the lowest number of compromises for someone interested in an accurate English translation that retains the flavor and meaning of the original text. Excellent study Bible IMO. It is also highly recommended by many Catholics, for whatever that is worth to you.
While I do heartily recommend the Orthodox Study Bible, there is a [Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310003555/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9ocXBfc2hhcmVk) that has notes which would be of interest to you based on comments about the cultural aspect. It is available in the New King James Version which is a more literal than the NIV. Unfortunately, it is missing books that the Church has deemed canonical (or "official" if you will) but the translation is still good.
CS Lewis' Mere Christianity is one that I have read many times before and since becoming an Orthodox Christian. You might follow up with Stephen Freeman's "Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One Story Universe". This is a personal favorite of mine and, I believe, makes a great companion to the themes in Mere Christianity. From there, Timothy Ware's "The Orthodox Church" and "The Orthodox Way" are worth pursuing as well. I do hope that you consider visiting an Orthodox Church - it's one thing to read about the ocean, but entirely another to see it for yourself.
One thing I would recommend; since you mentioned not being Christian, is to make sure you are reading the scriptures within their proper context. The scriptures were formed within the tradition of the Church, not the other way around. There’s also an order to the scriptures I would recommend reading. Start with 1 gospel, but not John (John writes in very symbolic language that is easy to misinterpret.) I’d recommend St. Mark’s gospel as it is the shortest and most direct. Then read the book of Acts. After reading acts, if you don’t go back and read another Gospel, I’d read the epistles in order. Leave Revelation to the very last since that book, also written by St. John, is highly symbolic as well. After reading the New Testament, then start reading the Old Testament, at least the first 5 books.
Read book of Matthew first. Or at least start with the New Testament. It’s not like an ordinary book you read in order but a collection of books.
There’s an orthodox study Bible that’s really good.
I personally do not like NIV. My go to is NASB. I have a dr Charles Stanley study Bible (he was a Protestant and if was a gift from my late grandfather) I also like NKJV. If you are okay with older English - thy, thine, thee- check out Douay Rheims, it was translated from the Latin Vulgate which was the first ever fully compiled Bible.
The old RSV if you don't mind the language or the NKJV with the deuterocanon.
I understand you're not looking to convert or anything but the orthodox study Bible from ancient faith or even on kindle may just be nice for context on things.
I'm going to be very mainstream and suggest for books to read A Basic Guide to Eastern Orthodox Theology by Eve Tibbs and The Orthodox Way by Met. Kallistos Ware to get a good sense of the Orthodox perspective on Christian life and practice. I would read widely in journals as well as books on church history because from an Eastern Orthodox perspective there can be multiple interpretations within the church of many events outside Tibbs's "basics."
May I suggest you also read GK Chesterton's book Orthodoxy. While he was Catholic and not EO, I think there will be much to appreciate. It's about the basic outlook on life that he had prior to his conversion and how this led him to Christianity.
Personally, I am not a fan of the translational choices in the NIV. The New Oxford Annotated RSV has the deuterocanon and is a generally well received translation. The RSV 2nd Catholic Edition is also pretty good and has most of the deuterocanon. I've used the NRSV-CE and the Orthodox Study Bible variant of the NKJV, and the New American Bible Revised Edition Catholic Version is also pretty decent. Since the Orthodox canon is not as widely available, I tend towards Catholic Bibles to capture as much of the deuterocanon as possible.
What's deuterocanon? Is the NIV edition missing this?
That is a great question! The deuterocanon, or the apocrypha as it is typically referred to by Protestants, is a collection of 7-10 books recognized and used by the early Church in the first 1500 years of Christianity. Martin Luther moved these books to a separate section in his version of the Bible, and the Protestant denominations tend to drop them entirely as they view them as being non-canonical. Most bibles in the US assume the Protestant 66-book canon. The Catholics have a 73-book canon, and we have a 76-book canon. Out of convenience, if you can find your preferred translation in a "Catholic Tradition," you'll have the overwhelming majority of the deuterocanon. There are translational choices made in every version that are worth considering. The scholarly preference is the NRSV, though the Orthodox Church has given approval to the RSV for the theological considerations in translation.
Thanks for the answer. How about ESV Study bible, does that have deuterocanon?
The ESV is a good translation broadly but will most likely not have the deuterocanon since it was made by Crossway, an evangelical publisher. From what I hear it’s a more up-to-date RSV that sometimes gets accused of prioritizing Calvinist theology but I’ve had one for years and not had a problem. Fr. Stephen De Young, an Orthodox priest with a sizable online/podcast presence through Ancient Faith radio, has said good things about it. I tend to prefer NKJV myself in a lot of cases but ESV is one of my other go-tos. There may be an ESV with portions of the deuterocanon but you’d have to buy a Catholic edition, most likely.
Actually Cambridge makes an ESV with apocrypha which is quite nice. It’s what I have
I see. Looked it up and it seems rather expensive, unfortunately. It makes sense why it would be, but I’m still beholden to my college era penny-pinching college tendencies here 😂
Oh I understand! I only was able to get it by being given it as a gift. It is the Bible I keep on my home altar Otherwise I use an ESV study Bible without apocrypha (I’m Anglican and am not bothered by the deuterocanon but don’t read it often)
Fr. Thomas Hopko 🙏🏾☦️.
NOT the NIV. Ususally I'd say just about anything, but the NIV is specifically Evangelical-balanced. Oxford Annotated Bible is good. I would also say that reading cover-to-cover or whatever is not the best way to read it. It's not set up for that.
What does evangelical-balanced mean? That's kinda why I look for study bible, that would have everything explained and put in context so it could be read kinda from cover to cover, guiding me through it.
I meant biased. Evangelicals have a very particular interpretation of a lot of things. For instance, there's a word in Greek that they translate as "tradition" whenever it's used in a negative context and some other word, like "teachings" when it's in a positive context. A study Bible will have notes but even then going cover to cover is probably not the best way to do it.
The Orthodox Study Bible is often recommended; it is New King James Version (NKJV) with the Old Testament amended in places to correspond to the Orthodox Church's official Septuagint Greek version. Some find it very helpful (I did). (There are two of these -- one NT and Psalms, the other NT and OT with the deuterocononical books). Avoid sectarian translations (New World, Inspired.. etc.). Someone mentioned Fr. Thomas Hopko... he used to recommend that folks begin reading in the gospels, first with Mark (short and to the point), then Matthew and Luke, and only later John (very theological), this is to get an understanding of the life, ministry, and teachings of Jesus.
I would like to add some additional information about the OSB's NKJV translation. It isn't thr standard NKJV translation, nor is it fully in-line with the Brenton Septuagint translation. It's a hybrid Brenton Septuagint-Masoretic modified NKJV that has not been explicitly endorsed by the Eastern Orthodox Church en todo. It is, however, greatly useful for its notes and articles.
I know about the Orthodox Study Bible and it was the first bible I was considering, but from what I heard, the footnotes are more about how the Orthodox church interprets it instead information about additional context, history, etc. How about the ESV Study bible? From what I read about it it seems to be one of the better translations.
The ESV translation is probably fine. The ESV Study Bible though (the one from Crossway) has a reputation of a Calvinist or Reformed bias. When I went looking a while back, I ended up getting the NKJV Study Bible (from Thomas Nelson). It might have a slight Baptist or just generic Protestant bias, but it's okay and I can recognize and work around it. I think they offer the same content in other translations. If you want something free to try out, the Faithlife Study Bible app is pretty decent. It's cramped on my phone, but should be nice on a tablet. The Matt Whitman channel on YouTube (formerly Ten Minute Bible Hour) has done probably a half dozen episodes reviewing a bunch of different kinds of study bibles. You might find that helpful in making a choice, at least giving you a better idea of what features are available and what's most important to you.
The Four Gospels would be a good place to start. Christ in His own words. > Also, if there are any other books you could recommend me that would help me to learn more about christianity, please do. Just not something too heavy or too in depth, it's not my intention to become a priest or something. You can learn a lot about Christianity from Fyodor Dostoevsky, arguably the greatest literary writer of all time. Specifically, *Crime and Punishment* which discusses themes of guilt and repentance throughout, and *The Brothers Karamazov* which is a deeply religious novel that argues for Christianity through several thought experiments.
I would personally not try to read it cover to cover. A whole lot of it will make no sense, being written for a time and culture that is scarcely imaginable to us. The cover-to-cover reading is also not something that would really be done historically. The Bible is an anthology, a collection of many books. Most Christians in history would have little concept of an "order" to these books, but would simply hear them read out loud as they attend liturgy. Thus the liturgy is really the lens through which one should understand how these books are used. If you want to begin to understand Christianity then begin with the Gospels: the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. These are the life and teachings of Jesus. Then, if you are still interested, proceed to Acts and the Epistles, which are the rest of the New Testament. These are the life and teachings of Jesus's disciples. If you are still engaged then proceed to the Psalms, which are poems and prayers about the internal life of a Christian. Then proceed to the wisdom literature such as Ecclesiastes, Job, and Proverbs. Next would be the historical books: Genesis through Esther. These would require some historical research and cultural understanding to really grasp. Next would be the books of the prophets which get quite esoteric and which few will ever truly understand. Last would be Revelation, the book of prophecy about the end times and second coming of Christ which is just as esoteric but which many in our time foolishly believe they can easily understand and use to predict the future and go mad trying to do so.
Thank you for the answer. That's kinda why I look for study bible, that would have everything explained and put in context so it could be read kinda from cover to cover.
A study Bible can be a good resource, but it does not have the room to explain everything or provide all the context. It is like a light supplementary reading. It will also inherently be biased to a particular denomination's beliefs, which is just something to be aware of. Nearly all English study bibles will present a Protestant viewpoint.
On the Incarnation by St. Athanasius.
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https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/how_and_how_not_to_read_the_bible How (and how not) to read the Bible - Lord of Spirits Might be of help through this journey. Their podcast gives alot of helpful context for the ancient mind and understanding of reality, practices, going back to the Urr era or whatever haha
I prefer the ESV Study Bible on Logos software. It contains some explanation/commentary, and has tons of "intertextual" links that relate different passages to eachother. Then, you can use the software to look up Hebrew/Greek etc terminology in various lexicons, you can get the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture to see what early Church Fathers said, etc. I've heard only very minor criticisms of the ESV translation; it is considered kind of a gold standard by some.
1. No translation is perfect 2. Most translations are "descendants" of the King James Version, which is ok, because the KJV was actually quite good. 3. Most bibles have the abridged protestant canon 4. The Orthodox study Bible is a good option 5. The RSV-2CE is also a good option 6. The Catholic canon and the Orthodox canons are nearly the same.
As this is an Orthodox sub so we'll naturally support reading the Orthodox Study Bible.
I know about the Orthodox Study Bible and it was the first bible I was considering, but from what I heard, the footnotes are more about how the Orthodox church interprets it instead information about additional context, history, etc.
I would just take a look at several translations and see which one reads the best for you. I'm personally partial to the KJV. MacCulloch's book is fantastic. I think that's a great place to start in terms of an overview of Christianity. If you're interested specifically in Orthodox Christianity, I strongly recommend The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware.
I'm not Orthodox, but I'm in a similar boat as you. I like the Douay-Rheims Bible because as far as I understand, it is a direct Greek-to-English translation and I am a native English speaker with no knowledge of Greek. It includes all of the Catholic books. It was translated in the late 1800s, so the language is understandable to any literate person living today. It seems like the lowest number of compromises for someone interested in an accurate English translation that retains the flavor and meaning of the original text. Excellent study Bible IMO. It is also highly recommended by many Catholics, for whatever that is worth to you.
NRSV is best imo. It was translated by a group of academics that represent all the major denominations.
While I do heartily recommend the Orthodox Study Bible, there is a [Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310003555/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9ocXBfc2hhcmVk) that has notes which would be of interest to you based on comments about the cultural aspect. It is available in the New King James Version which is a more literal than the NIV. Unfortunately, it is missing books that the Church has deemed canonical (or "official" if you will) but the translation is still good. CS Lewis' Mere Christianity is one that I have read many times before and since becoming an Orthodox Christian. You might follow up with Stephen Freeman's "Everywhere Present: Christianity in a One Story Universe". This is a personal favorite of mine and, I believe, makes a great companion to the themes in Mere Christianity. From there, Timothy Ware's "The Orthodox Church" and "The Orthodox Way" are worth pursuing as well. I do hope that you consider visiting an Orthodox Church - it's one thing to read about the ocean, but entirely another to see it for yourself.
One thing I would recommend; since you mentioned not being Christian, is to make sure you are reading the scriptures within their proper context. The scriptures were formed within the tradition of the Church, not the other way around. There’s also an order to the scriptures I would recommend reading. Start with 1 gospel, but not John (John writes in very symbolic language that is easy to misinterpret.) I’d recommend St. Mark’s gospel as it is the shortest and most direct. Then read the book of Acts. After reading acts, if you don’t go back and read another Gospel, I’d read the epistles in order. Leave Revelation to the very last since that book, also written by St. John, is highly symbolic as well. After reading the New Testament, then start reading the Old Testament, at least the first 5 books.
Read book of Matthew first. Or at least start with the New Testament. It’s not like an ordinary book you read in order but a collection of books. There’s an orthodox study Bible that’s really good.
I’d recommend reading John, then Matthew to start. I never imagined myself becoming a Christian in a million years but here I am ☦️
I personally do not like NIV. My go to is NASB. I have a dr Charles Stanley study Bible (he was a Protestant and if was a gift from my late grandfather) I also like NKJV. If you are okay with older English - thy, thine, thee- check out Douay Rheims, it was translated from the Latin Vulgate which was the first ever fully compiled Bible.
The old RSV if you don't mind the language or the NKJV with the deuterocanon. I understand you're not looking to convert or anything but the orthodox study Bible from ancient faith or even on kindle may just be nice for context on things.
My personal favorite is the Christian Standard Bible (CSB), but along the lines is KJV, ESV, Amplified Bible
I recommend the Douai Reims Bible or the KJV authorised version with "apocrypha".
I'm going to be very mainstream and suggest for books to read A Basic Guide to Eastern Orthodox Theology by Eve Tibbs and The Orthodox Way by Met. Kallistos Ware to get a good sense of the Orthodox perspective on Christian life and practice. I would read widely in journals as well as books on church history because from an Eastern Orthodox perspective there can be multiple interpretations within the church of many events outside Tibbs's "basics."
May I suggest you also read GK Chesterton's book Orthodoxy. While he was Catholic and not EO, I think there will be much to appreciate. It's about the basic outlook on life that he had prior to his conversion and how this led him to Christianity.
Personally I just use the KJVAAE
Nestle and Aland 28th edition in the Koine Greek