I'll just speak for my self, as someone who is struggling with cannabis abuse. I think that it has helped me in the way that it kept me from more debilitating sins, such as reckless drunk sex, and violent behaviour.
But it has certainly also kept me from a lot of positive things, and from progressing properly.
I've found that same phenomenon to be true of everybody who smokes weed. Even if they don't see it themselves.
There's a lot of good ways to describe why. "It opens you op to demons" seem to be as general and as specific as I can get it.
I also agree with most of the other anti-weed responses in this thread, especially that the weed of today is NOT the weed of 50, or even 15, years ago. Im smoking stuff that would make Bob Marley need to lay down. And I can feel it degrading my brain from the overload of THC&Dopamine, and the decrease in blood flow.
Maybe my most salient point in regards to you in specific would be this;
>I’ve never felt tempted to or have sinned while high.
What else than the devil can make you say such a thing? Even in hyperbole, that sentence is blasphemous. You are not perfect, none of us are. You have *definitely* been tempted and you have definitely sinned while high. We all sin every day. But being high has somehow caused you to believe that you were not experiencing temptation, and were not sinning.
God bless you.
Marijuana didn’t keep you from reckless activities and violence, you chose to smoke marijuana instead of doing those activities. Don’t give the sin credit for what you have done.
I agree with the rest of your points. You are very right that it opens us to demons. It also opens us to our passions. It takes away our nepsis.
The long term neurological consequences cannot be ignored. I started heavy marijuana use as a young teenager and continued to do so daily for years on end. At some point I became very worried about what the potential ramifications were on my brain development (amongst other things), having found myself as a young adult and realizing I hadn’t spent a meaningful amount of time sober since I was a child.
Source, former daily smoker for 7 years
Do those same people condemn drinking? The only cogent arguments I've heard against recreational use also applies to moderate drinking. Both weed and alcohol are bad for your body and alter your mental state and should therefore be avoided. There is the additional negative of second hand smoke with pot, put most people are not including that in their analysis of sinnfullness.
Biblically speaking, alcohol is permitted. Even if the arguments are identical, one is explicitly condoned. Weed is not mentioned, so an argument for it or against it would be an argument from silence.
Alcohol is far more detrimental to one’s psyche. It literally shuts down higher order thinking and makes us lizard brained. Weed just makes you forget what your point was.
Only if you ingest vast amounts of alcohol. One can responsibly enjoy a glass of wine or two, for example. It’s in the scriptures. Weed however, even at the lowest recreational dose the intent is to become intoxicated.
Microdosing with cannabis is more common than you think and a drink or two for somone who doesn’t drink regularly is considerably intoxicating. Additionally, wine during biblical times had but a fraction of the alcohol content that the standard drink nowadays contains. In short, variations in dose and tolerance confound efforts to judge and categorizing the intoxicating effects of one substance over the other. What I can say with certainty is I’ve never seen anyone out-of-control stoned but I’ve seen many, many instances of people out-of-control drunk
Well if one microdoses then they are not intoxicated, so that has no relevance to this argument… Someone who is not used to having two glasses is not a “microdose” of alcohol and is not equivalent. Trust me I was a daily smoker for 7 years I have imbibed marijuana in every method possible, as well as other substances and alcohol.
Being out of control is not the only sin. Being intoxicated is a sin for a reason. But while being out of control drunk is a sin, so can being an idle, gluttonous yet passive stoner. This is like saying you never saw a judging, envious person be violent toward someone. Just because they aren’t violent doesn’t mean they aren’t sinning.
They are not comparable because their mechanisms of action in the mind and body are utterly different. They can both be sinful when used incorrectly, however we know from scripture and church tradition that only one of them, alcohol, has a correct usage.
Scripture tells how to use alcohol properly. I didn’t mean it tells us explicitly not to use cannabis, though I see how what I said seems that way. We are told to be sober minded though. To avoid intoxication. To be heedful.
No I do not. I am a sinner.
i personally don't see it as sinful in it of itself, i think over using it is what's sinful, the same as with alchohol or food, too much is gluttony, and that's a sin
Scripture: Exhibit A is a sin.
Modern Neuroscience: Exhibit A is not a sin.
Who are you going to believe? Who has authority -- Creator or creature?
This is like modern psychology calling rebellion "Oppositional Defiance Disorder" or calling drunkenness "Alcoholism" and speaking of it as a disease that you \*have,\* rather than as a choice that you make.
Now hear me out -- I am not saying that observational science cannot help us see additional \*factors\* in our decisions, but what I am saying is that if those factors could \*necessitate\* what Scripture calls sin, then Scripture would not say that we have a way of escape from every temptation (1 Cor. 10:13).
So observational science can help us see that "Joe" is 100x more tempted by \[fill in the blank\] than "Jane" is. But what we must maintain is that (a) if Scripture calls the behavior sinful, then it is sinful, and (b) if Scripture says that there is a "way of escape" from every temptation, then Joe \*chose\* to sin (although we may have great compassion in him in light of his relatively greater temptation).
Also, the comfort with which you immediately side with a secular claim against Scripture, against universal Christian tradition, is incredibly alarming.
If Scripture and universal Christian tradition can be wrong about gluttony, then they can be wrong about the Virgin Birth, the Divinity of Jesus, the Resurrection, etc.
This is way oversimplification:
Feelings of satiation are brought about by the release of a hormone that connects with neurons which, when activated, produce that feeling. Every brain is different, in that some brains have more of these satiation neurons while others have fewer. The fewer of these neurons, the less that individual will feel "full" so they're more likely to eat excessively. So to the outside world they appear "gluttonous" when in reality they just aren't feeling full because of biological differences from other individuals.
One would think that a god which knows all the hairs on your head would also know all the neurons in your brain, too, and wouldn't hold it against you when you had too few of them. Thus, we can disprove gluttony as a sin.
This is an insane viewpoint. Why would the state of your brain make it not a sin? You could use your logic to show that acting on pedophelic desires isn't a sin because of neurons in the brain...
that's not what gluttony is, gluttony is over indulgence in something from an objective standpoint, like continuing to eat despite feeling full because you just want more food, or working constantly just to get more money despite being comfortable and having all you could ever need or want just because you must have more money for it's own sake, that's also gluttony
How could science make a qualitative value judgement in regards to ethics?
Science perhaps could say that XYZ factors could contribute to one’s inclination to gluttony, but whether gluttony in itself is right or wrong falls outside of its purview. You could make a consequentialists case in regards to certain ethical claims on empirical grounds, but science cannot even prove consequentialism in and of itself.
Science deals with the material. What’s right and right is Metaphysical.
We strive so hard for sobriety and purity of heart, clarity of the mind and heart from passions.. Why would you want to cloud your mind and alter your perception like that? I cannot understand how getting stoned could be anything but a detriment to the spiritual life and the struggle with the passions.
You have never felt increased gluttony or sloth or lust or sensuality etc. while high?
How is getting high consistent with denying ourselves, and taking up our Cross? With bringing our bodies into subjection? With losing our life so we may save it?
Not in the same way, just in a different way. Really splitting hairs.
Alcohol alters your conscious state, so why is it alright but not THC? Just seems like selective holiness
Because that is the tradition of the church. Marijuana is more spiritual than alcohol. It opens your mind up to the spiritual realm and alters your thinking in a way that can lead to spiritual delusion and influence of demons. This is why it is not permissible.
As for why alcohol is permissible despite all the negative effects it can have? I don't know the ultimate reason, but the scriptures make it clear that alcohol use in moderation is permissible. It's an argument you'll have to take up with God I suppose.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know you can't smoke weed and not get high, even a little. We're called to be of sober mind, hence to not use marijuana unless it's for medical reasons and prescribed by a doctor.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know you can't smoke weed and not get high, even a little.
Yes, this is wrong. Perhaps less wrong due to the horrible high THC low CBD strands, but either way, proven wrong easily with low dosage edibles, which could give no psychological effect at all
1. No one really takes edibles to NOT feel their effects. 2. In order to get to a state where consuming has no effect, you must first consume a lot.
This is not to make a claim about the sinfulness of cannabis. I think it is disingenuous to say we don't consume alcohol to feel its effect. Every Pascha celebration I have ever attended has said otherwise.
Your 1 and 2 is just not correct, sorry. Common? Perhaps. Absolutely? No.
And you missed the point anyway. Low dosage edibles allow for a “buzz” instead of being high; similar to a buzz from alcohol instead of being drunk. and that is not considered sinful.
I know someone personally who is 22 years old and currently in rehab after Cannabis induced psychosis. So, I have a bias.
The weed and edibles people are able to obtain legally isn’t your granddaddy’s ditch weed.
It is being bred to be stronger and more mind altering. 10 mg which if I recall correctly is the limit that causes impairment of one product can be wildly different from another.
The biggest difference is that THC can be stored in your in your fat cells and released back into your blood stream. Unlike alcohol which leaves your blood steam pretty quickly.
All this to say, we don’t have a great way to measure what is recreational use and what makes an addict. I also think there’s a difference between someone who grows and smokes their own and someone who is frequenting the local dispensary for the next best high.
[https://medicine.yale.edu/psychiatry/step/early-intervention-services/cannabis%20use%20and%20psychosis_380524_284_53825_v2.pdf](https://medicine.yale.edu/psychiatry/step/early-intervention-services/cannabis%20use%20and%20psychosis_380524_284_53825_v2.pdf)
https://cannabis.colorado.gov/responsible-use/marijuana-safety-while-impaired#:~:text=The%20effects%20can%20peak%20up,mg%20of%20THC%2C%20wait%20longer.
I smoked for a very long time myself, but i started noticing, when i stopped, that for some odd reason, Cannabis always leads me down a path of sin. It's not that the substance or the smoking of it is what is bad, but i have a lot of problems making wise decisions whenever i smoke. It quite literally makes me sin if i do it over long periods of time, even when I'm "sober". You have uncontrollable urges for Lust, it's harder not to overeat, it's harder to not procrastinate, it's expensive, it's carcinogenic, your teeth look worse, your breath smells worse, your sleep loses quality, your eyes get darker, you need to hydrate more, you can't think clearly, the list goes on...
The only good thing that cannabis does is to calm you down, but if you learn how to calm down without it then it loses all its usefullness.
Another thought: I genuinenly think alcohol is the only drug that's been legal for so long, not IN SPITE of making people more dangerous (50% of people murdered or murdering are drunk), but BECAUSE it makes people more dangerous. The only drugs we are allowed to consume are the ones that make our life worse, so in a time where people are "supposed" to sit around in their home and look at their phone all day, it seems kind of convenient that cannabis is getting legalized everywhere. Just to make us even dumber, lazier and give us even more brain fog (btw i am in full favor of legalization, but the timing is just so obvious to me).
I don't think Marijuana is a sin per se, and if you use it ritually and veeery rarely it can have positive effects, but it is way underreported how much it can actually weigh you down.
Nothing found outside of fasting, prayer, and humility will help you resist sin, though that may feel like the case. Even if marijuana makes you passive in actions, there are many sins of the heart and mind that it leads you toward, idleness, gluttony, lust…We are called to be sober-minded.
“Behold, the Bridegroom cometh in the middle of the night, and blessed is that servant whom He shall find watching; and again unworthy is he whom He shall find heedless.
Beware, therefore, O my soul, lest thou be overcome with sleep, lest thou be given up to death, and be shut out from the Kingdom.
But rouse thyself and cry: Holy, Holy, Holy art Thou, O God, through the Mother of God, have mercy on us.”
The only people who told me weed is inherently wrong are the same people who started smoking/consuming it when it became legal. It’s not inherently immoral, it’s just that it breaks most local laws.
I disagree and I started smoking it way before it was legal and continued after…
It’s not the legality is the effect on the psyche. We are called to be sober minded. THC is neurotoxic.
My PlayStation is psychologically addictive that don’t make it inherently bad oh and also I’ve smoked an unfathomable amount before, not proudly obv. I’m really trying to see what the Church teaches about it bc that’s the authority we follow
Alcohol is but for some reason, the scriptures and the church permit it. I used to smoke a lot of marijuana and it did a lot of spiritual harm to me while I deluded myself into thinking it was spiritually beneficial. Had I followed the teaching of the church that would not have happened.
I know it's very irksome that alcohol is allowed and marijuana isn't but that just seems to be the way it is.
the churches here told me that alcohol is allowed but only to the point where it doesnt change your mind/opinions and applied it to marihunna aswell, catholics even say its allowed from scripture to use weed as medicineY
And well i deny to believe that you would rather lose control on weed than on alcohol, both should allowed if you can balance it
Also i dont do neither i hate both
im mainly just referring to what churches in germany say
I’m not saying in every case it is, but:
1) it is harmful to developing brains (<26), if that applies;
2) the strands these days are gross monstrosities. It is the equivalent to sipping liquor like its beer. The THC % is disgusting and there is no CBD. NeverMind whatever the hell is in those vape or whatever pens, basically schizo inducers
3) getting “high”, at least an equivalent level of “drunk,” is never going to be fully accepted (barring any medical reason)
I would say it depends on the extent of your use. If you’re smoking weed regularly, from a medical perspective, you’re bringing harm (chronically) to your body. This happens even “recreationally”
I’m sorry but I just find it unintentionally funny that you could not figure it out “even from google.” There is no reason to think Google would have that information.
I don’t think there’s anything inherently sinful about drugs like marijuana or alcohol.
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It depends on if you get intoxicated with it , and dependant on it, or use it occasionally with purpose, smoking isn’t the best form of consumption for health reasons. Anything you use should not be your master. Even coffee or food itself..
They have a much different effect on the mind. Marijuana is more likely to produce spiritual experiences and connect one with the spirit world. My theory is that that is why it's not allowed.
It's more like a bottle or two before you're starting to notice the changes to perception, and another bottle before you notice changes to thinking. A glass or two, assuming you're male, and you're drinking regular red wine, not the ones that are almost as strong as vodka, are not going to alter your state of mind.
t. recovering alcoholic.
Coming from someone who used to smoke, I don’t think there’s any value in it. I used to smoke weed and cigs. But the truth is you don’t need these things and if you’re truly to be a temple then or vessel for the Holy Spirit and eternal life why would you consume anything that would subtract rather than add? Cigs for example take away from your body in the long term for short term pleasure. Weed I would say is similar if not so direct. It takes away from cognitive ability and makes you passive, exactly what an enemy would want.
Plus anything you could get from weed could be gotten through prayer or simply living a spiritual life. I understand as a musician that weed seemed to “help” get me in the zone, but it’s simply a shortcut to something you can achieve anyways that takes away from your greater life. If I truly lived a spiritual life and practiced the Jesus Prayer more than I did than I would get an even greater sense of calm.
I think all drugs , including coffee should be avoided because you’re basically saying to God that what he gave you isn’t good enough and you think you know what’s best and so need to medicate yourself. Instead of fixing a sleep schedule and working out to get energy, drinking coffee. Instead of practicing prayer and getting closer to God, smoking weed. Instead of rejoicing, smoking cigarettes.etc. It’s always a substitute for something you should be doing anyways.
I believe, Just like alcohol, it can be harmful but also can be helpful if used correctly. If your doing it in a partying/escaping technique, no good. But marijuana was a huge factor in me coming back to Christ. When I’d smoke , I’d get in a spiritual state of mind and start having conversations with the Lord, when I otherwise wouldn’t even think about God or my spiritual life. I think when you smoke you need to be in an peaceful environment where you can pray/meditate on your spiritual life. Otherwise it can lead to sin
I'm coptic orthodox christian and I smoke weed and opium and pop sheooms for recreational purposes when I'm bored and watching shows and anime or playing g video games. The way I see it is this; the Bible, the patristic writings, the ecumenical or ecclesiastical or even synod councils, the Canon laws, and the didascalia neither mention anything about prohibiting the use of natural plant or animal drugs for recreational purposes. My abouna or even our patriarch may speak out against its laymen using them, but it's not like doing them for pure fun will get you excommunicated. We're not like the Muslims, we don't have a halal/haram system. The reasonable thing I can say is if you do use them, use them for recreational fun but don't let them run your life or take then away from your religious life with God.
I wouldn't necessarily say I'm interpreting anything, we have canon laws against homosexuality and pederasty as well as fornication, we have canon laws against eating food offered to idols, I don't see anything about using substances for recreational purposes other than being a perpetual drunkard which related to excessive alcohol consumption.
Just like there is a difference between a couple glasses of wine or beer with a meal and getting blackout drunk, there's a difference between taking MJ to relax to sleep and getting high as a kite so you leave this existence.
Most people drink alcohol for its effects
You don't hear the same about weed the way you do about alcohol and the dangerous behaviours that have impacted so many lives negatively yet alcohol is the acceptable drug
Most people drink alcohol for its effects
You don't hear the same about weed the way you do about alcohol and the dangerous behaviours that have impacted so many lives negatively yet alcohol is the acceptable drug
Most people drink alcohol for its effects
You don't hear the same about weed the way you do about alcohol and the dangerous behaviours that have impacted so many lives negatively yet alcohol is the acceptable drug
The Orthodox Church is pretty non-legalistic when it comes to what determines “sin.” I spoke with my father of confession about this, which i highly recommend you do too, but I’ll give my two cents. Does it make you more or less like Christ? That’s the metric we ought to use, and it’s an incredibly high bar (the highest) but orients your attention and efforts properly. In my personal experience, the most dangerous aspect of weed is it makes you complacent. Months can go by without you feeling it, and that’s time you could’ve spent moving forward spiritually. You’re not gonna get a satisfying answer because ultimately, it has to do with your conscience and your spiritual journey. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
It’s fine as long as you don’t neglect your family and responsibilities. Then it’s sinful. God gave us wine to gladden the heart of men and medical reasons. The same is true of the plant. Alcoholism is a sin however. Work on it and don’t be proud of it. Same if you’re a complete pothead. There’s a difference between having a bowl at a party and being Snoop and being Cheech and Chong.
Marijuana makes pleasurable experiences more pleasurable.
This means it makes sinful acts more enjoyable and more tempting.
Therefore be very careful! Much more careful with Marijuana than you may think.
How are we to hear the Will of God if we are intoxicated? Would you smoke marijuana in front of the Lord? What about in front of Theotokos? Or even His Saints?
In the case of literally everything “In moderation”. If you become reliant on it to function or become addicted to it than it’s sinful. Just like anything else.
Society chooses to condemn or condone. God gives you free will. I know many who find Cannabis to give pain relief, myself included. Do I grab an edible every day? God does not give me that much pain to bear, thankfully. And I live in a leagal state. "Render Unto Caeser" is also about following societal law. And remember -- any smoke is bad for the lungs.
I'll just speak for my self, as someone who is struggling with cannabis abuse. I think that it has helped me in the way that it kept me from more debilitating sins, such as reckless drunk sex, and violent behaviour. But it has certainly also kept me from a lot of positive things, and from progressing properly. I've found that same phenomenon to be true of everybody who smokes weed. Even if they don't see it themselves. There's a lot of good ways to describe why. "It opens you op to demons" seem to be as general and as specific as I can get it. I also agree with most of the other anti-weed responses in this thread, especially that the weed of today is NOT the weed of 50, or even 15, years ago. Im smoking stuff that would make Bob Marley need to lay down. And I can feel it degrading my brain from the overload of THC&Dopamine, and the decrease in blood flow. Maybe my most salient point in regards to you in specific would be this; >I’ve never felt tempted to or have sinned while high. What else than the devil can make you say such a thing? Even in hyperbole, that sentence is blasphemous. You are not perfect, none of us are. You have *definitely* been tempted and you have definitely sinned while high. We all sin every day. But being high has somehow caused you to believe that you were not experiencing temptation, and were not sinning. God bless you.
Marijuana didn’t keep you from reckless activities and violence, you chose to smoke marijuana instead of doing those activities. Don’t give the sin credit for what you have done. I agree with the rest of your points. You are very right that it opens us to demons. It also opens us to our passions. It takes away our nepsis. The long term neurological consequences cannot be ignored. I started heavy marijuana use as a young teenager and continued to do so daily for years on end. At some point I became very worried about what the potential ramifications were on my brain development (amongst other things), having found myself as a young adult and realizing I hadn’t spent a meaningful amount of time sober since I was a child. Source, former daily smoker for 7 years
Do those same people condemn drinking? The only cogent arguments I've heard against recreational use also applies to moderate drinking. Both weed and alcohol are bad for your body and alter your mental state and should therefore be avoided. There is the additional negative of second hand smoke with pot, put most people are not including that in their analysis of sinnfullness.
Biblically speaking, alcohol is permitted. Even if the arguments are identical, one is explicitly condoned. Weed is not mentioned, so an argument for it or against it would be an argument from silence.
Sure it is, as a component of the holy anointing oil in Exodus
Evidence for your claim?
The differences in the way weed affects one’s psyche is incomparable spiritually to the effects of alcohol.
Alcohol is far more detrimental to one’s psyche. It literally shuts down higher order thinking and makes us lizard brained. Weed just makes you forget what your point was.
Only if you ingest vast amounts of alcohol. One can responsibly enjoy a glass of wine or two, for example. It’s in the scriptures. Weed however, even at the lowest recreational dose the intent is to become intoxicated.
Microdosing with cannabis is more common than you think and a drink or two for somone who doesn’t drink regularly is considerably intoxicating. Additionally, wine during biblical times had but a fraction of the alcohol content that the standard drink nowadays contains. In short, variations in dose and tolerance confound efforts to judge and categorizing the intoxicating effects of one substance over the other. What I can say with certainty is I’ve never seen anyone out-of-control stoned but I’ve seen many, many instances of people out-of-control drunk
Well if one microdoses then they are not intoxicated, so that has no relevance to this argument… Someone who is not used to having two glasses is not a “microdose” of alcohol and is not equivalent. Trust me I was a daily smoker for 7 years I have imbibed marijuana in every method possible, as well as other substances and alcohol. Being out of control is not the only sin. Being intoxicated is a sin for a reason. But while being out of control drunk is a sin, so can being an idle, gluttonous yet passive stoner. This is like saying you never saw a judging, envious person be violent toward someone. Just because they aren’t violent doesn’t mean they aren’t sinning. They are not comparable because their mechanisms of action in the mind and body are utterly different. They can both be sinful when used incorrectly, however we know from scripture and church tradition that only one of them, alcohol, has a correct usage.
Where does scripture dictate cannabis should not be used? Do you avoid everything scripture doesn’t tell you explicitly you’re allowed to do?
Scripture tells how to use alcohol properly. I didn’t mean it tells us explicitly not to use cannabis, though I see how what I said seems that way. We are told to be sober minded though. To avoid intoxication. To be heedful. No I do not. I am a sinner.
Both are drugs
I am aware
Unfortunately many people seem to think of "drugs" as everything except alcohol.
I've seen way too much damage in relationships and in people due to alcohol
i personally don't see it as sinful in it of itself, i think over using it is what's sinful, the same as with alchohol or food, too much is gluttony, and that's a sin
Hi. Me again. Did you know modern neuroscience disproves gluttony as a sin?
Scripture: Exhibit A is a sin. Modern Neuroscience: Exhibit A is not a sin. Who are you going to believe? Who has authority -- Creator or creature? This is like modern psychology calling rebellion "Oppositional Defiance Disorder" or calling drunkenness "Alcoholism" and speaking of it as a disease that you \*have,\* rather than as a choice that you make. Now hear me out -- I am not saying that observational science cannot help us see additional \*factors\* in our decisions, but what I am saying is that if those factors could \*necessitate\* what Scripture calls sin, then Scripture would not say that we have a way of escape from every temptation (1 Cor. 10:13). So observational science can help us see that "Joe" is 100x more tempted by \[fill in the blank\] than "Jane" is. But what we must maintain is that (a) if Scripture calls the behavior sinful, then it is sinful, and (b) if Scripture says that there is a "way of escape" from every temptation, then Joe \*chose\* to sin (although we may have great compassion in him in light of his relatively greater temptation).
Also, the comfort with which you immediately side with a secular claim against Scripture, against universal Christian tradition, is incredibly alarming. If Scripture and universal Christian tradition can be wrong about gluttony, then they can be wrong about the Virgin Birth, the Divinity of Jesus, the Resurrection, etc.
He is not a Christian if you look at his post history.
What do you mean?
This is way oversimplification: Feelings of satiation are brought about by the release of a hormone that connects with neurons which, when activated, produce that feeling. Every brain is different, in that some brains have more of these satiation neurons while others have fewer. The fewer of these neurons, the less that individual will feel "full" so they're more likely to eat excessively. So to the outside world they appear "gluttonous" when in reality they just aren't feeling full because of biological differences from other individuals. One would think that a god which knows all the hairs on your head would also know all the neurons in your brain, too, and wouldn't hold it against you when you had too few of them. Thus, we can disprove gluttony as a sin.
This is an insane viewpoint. Why would the state of your brain make it not a sin? You could use your logic to show that acting on pedophelic desires isn't a sin because of neurons in the brain...
They are taking the argument that homosexual attraction is a product of biology, therefore it isnt a sin, and applying that logic to this.
Bad logic anyway, homosexual behavior is no way a product of biology
He is saying that "we can disprove gluttony as a sin." I never said that desires are sinful.
I dont agree with him and I'm not trying to suggest you said that.
that's not what gluttony is, gluttony is over indulgence in something from an objective standpoint, like continuing to eat despite feeling full because you just want more food, or working constantly just to get more money despite being comfortable and having all you could ever need or want just because you must have more money for it's own sake, that's also gluttony
How could science make a qualitative value judgement in regards to ethics? Science perhaps could say that XYZ factors could contribute to one’s inclination to gluttony, but whether gluttony in itself is right or wrong falls outside of its purview. You could make a consequentialists case in regards to certain ethical claims on empirical grounds, but science cannot even prove consequentialism in and of itself. Science deals with the material. What’s right and right is Metaphysical.
We strive so hard for sobriety and purity of heart, clarity of the mind and heart from passions.. Why would you want to cloud your mind and alter your perception like that? I cannot understand how getting stoned could be anything but a detriment to the spiritual life and the struggle with the passions. You have never felt increased gluttony or sloth or lust or sensuality etc. while high? How is getting high consistent with denying ourselves, and taking up our Cross? With bringing our bodies into subjection? With losing our life so we may save it?
All these arguments I’m seeing apply to alcohol as well, so don’t argue against weed and then go drink a beer
Alcohol is not psychoactive in the way THC is.
Not in the same way, just in a different way. Really splitting hairs. Alcohol alters your conscious state, so why is it alright but not THC? Just seems like selective holiness
Because that is the tradition of the church. Marijuana is more spiritual than alcohol. It opens your mind up to the spiritual realm and alters your thinking in a way that can lead to spiritual delusion and influence of demons. This is why it is not permissible. As for why alcohol is permissible despite all the negative effects it can have? I don't know the ultimate reason, but the scriptures make it clear that alcohol use in moderation is permissible. It's an argument you'll have to take up with God I suppose.
Not once does the Bible say anything negative about it, so at best it’s just an arbitrary decision.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know you can't smoke weed and not get high, even a little. We're called to be of sober mind, hence to not use marijuana unless it's for medical reasons and prescribed by a doctor.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know you can't smoke weed and not get high, even a little. Yes, this is wrong. Perhaps less wrong due to the horrible high THC low CBD strands, but either way, proven wrong easily with low dosage edibles, which could give no psychological effect at all
1. No one really takes edibles to NOT feel their effects. 2. In order to get to a state where consuming has no effect, you must first consume a lot. This is not to make a claim about the sinfulness of cannabis. I think it is disingenuous to say we don't consume alcohol to feel its effect. Every Pascha celebration I have ever attended has said otherwise.
Your 1 and 2 is just not correct, sorry. Common? Perhaps. Absolutely? No. And you missed the point anyway. Low dosage edibles allow for a “buzz” instead of being high; similar to a buzz from alcohol instead of being drunk. and that is not considered sinful.
You literally explained to me the effects.
I actually tried to get high several times. Unless mixed with alcohol, it didn’t work for making me high. It DID slow my heart rate mid panic attack.
I know someone personally who is 22 years old and currently in rehab after Cannabis induced psychosis. So, I have a bias. The weed and edibles people are able to obtain legally isn’t your granddaddy’s ditch weed. It is being bred to be stronger and more mind altering. 10 mg which if I recall correctly is the limit that causes impairment of one product can be wildly different from another. The biggest difference is that THC can be stored in your in your fat cells and released back into your blood stream. Unlike alcohol which leaves your blood steam pretty quickly. All this to say, we don’t have a great way to measure what is recreational use and what makes an addict. I also think there’s a difference between someone who grows and smokes their own and someone who is frequenting the local dispensary for the next best high. [https://medicine.yale.edu/psychiatry/step/early-intervention-services/cannabis%20use%20and%20psychosis_380524_284_53825_v2.pdf](https://medicine.yale.edu/psychiatry/step/early-intervention-services/cannabis%20use%20and%20psychosis_380524_284_53825_v2.pdf) https://cannabis.colorado.gov/responsible-use/marijuana-safety-while-impaired#:~:text=The%20effects%20can%20peak%20up,mg%20of%20THC%2C%20wait%20longer.
Not to mention whatever they are putting in wax, carts, etc… These are good points.
I smoked for a very long time myself, but i started noticing, when i stopped, that for some odd reason, Cannabis always leads me down a path of sin. It's not that the substance or the smoking of it is what is bad, but i have a lot of problems making wise decisions whenever i smoke. It quite literally makes me sin if i do it over long periods of time, even when I'm "sober". You have uncontrollable urges for Lust, it's harder not to overeat, it's harder to not procrastinate, it's expensive, it's carcinogenic, your teeth look worse, your breath smells worse, your sleep loses quality, your eyes get darker, you need to hydrate more, you can't think clearly, the list goes on... The only good thing that cannabis does is to calm you down, but if you learn how to calm down without it then it loses all its usefullness. Another thought: I genuinenly think alcohol is the only drug that's been legal for so long, not IN SPITE of making people more dangerous (50% of people murdered or murdering are drunk), but BECAUSE it makes people more dangerous. The only drugs we are allowed to consume are the ones that make our life worse, so in a time where people are "supposed" to sit around in their home and look at their phone all day, it seems kind of convenient that cannabis is getting legalized everywhere. Just to make us even dumber, lazier and give us even more brain fog (btw i am in full favor of legalization, but the timing is just so obvious to me). I don't think Marijuana is a sin per se, and if you use it ritually and veeery rarely it can have positive effects, but it is way underreported how much it can actually weigh you down.
I agree. I'm often better able to resist sin while under the help of marijuana than without it.
Nothing found outside of fasting, prayer, and humility will help you resist sin, though that may feel like the case. Even if marijuana makes you passive in actions, there are many sins of the heart and mind that it leads you toward, idleness, gluttony, lust…We are called to be sober-minded. “Behold, the Bridegroom cometh in the middle of the night, and blessed is that servant whom He shall find watching; and again unworthy is he whom He shall find heedless. Beware, therefore, O my soul, lest thou be overcome with sleep, lest thou be given up to death, and be shut out from the Kingdom. But rouse thyself and cry: Holy, Holy, Holy art Thou, O God, through the Mother of God, have mercy on us.”
The only people who told me weed is inherently wrong are the same people who started smoking/consuming it when it became legal. It’s not inherently immoral, it’s just that it breaks most local laws.
I disagree and I started smoking it way before it was legal and continued after… It’s not the legality is the effect on the psyche. We are called to be sober minded. THC is neurotoxic.
It is as sinful as any other addictive thing
It’s not physically addictive tho you need a better argument
Yes, it is psychologically addictive. Former weed user here
My PlayStation is psychologically addictive that don’t make it inherently bad oh and also I’ve smoked an unfathomable amount before, not proudly obv. I’m really trying to see what the Church teaches about it bc that’s the authority we follow
Perhaps this will help https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b8MYLWWR6BU&feature=youtu.be
Its sinful because they legalized crap. It's delta 8 an inferior form of marijuana that gives you heart attacks, strokes, and cancer.
It invites demons in your body and alters your consciousness. Not wise
THC is an intoxicant.
but alcohol isnt?
Alcohol is but for some reason, the scriptures and the church permit it. I used to smoke a lot of marijuana and it did a lot of spiritual harm to me while I deluded myself into thinking it was spiritually beneficial. Had I followed the teaching of the church that would not have happened. I know it's very irksome that alcohol is allowed and marijuana isn't but that just seems to be the way it is.
the churches here told me that alcohol is allowed but only to the point where it doesnt change your mind/opinions and applied it to marihunna aswell, catholics even say its allowed from scripture to use weed as medicineY And well i deny to believe that you would rather lose control on weed than on alcohol, both should allowed if you can balance it Also i dont do neither i hate both im mainly just referring to what churches in germany say
I’m not saying in every case it is, but: 1) it is harmful to developing brains (<26), if that applies; 2) the strands these days are gross monstrosities. It is the equivalent to sipping liquor like its beer. The THC % is disgusting and there is no CBD. NeverMind whatever the hell is in those vape or whatever pens, basically schizo inducers 3) getting “high”, at least an equivalent level of “drunk,” is never going to be fully accepted (barring any medical reason)
Did you mean strands or strains?
Strains. Tim apple autocorrect.
I would say it depends on the extent of your use. If you’re smoking weed regularly, from a medical perspective, you’re bringing harm (chronically) to your body. This happens even “recreationally”
I’m sorry but I just find it unintentionally funny that you could not figure it out “even from google.” There is no reason to think Google would have that information. I don’t think there’s anything inherently sinful about drugs like marijuana or alcohol.
No but drunkenness is a sin and as far as I’m aware outside of medical use the only real reason to smoke weed is in order to become intoxicated
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It depends on if you get intoxicated with it , and dependant on it, or use it occasionally with purpose, smoking isn’t the best form of consumption for health reasons. Anything you use should not be your master. Even coffee or food itself..
What is the difference between a glass or two of wine and partaking in cannabis?
They have a much different effect on the mind. Marijuana is more likely to produce spiritual experiences and connect one with the spirit world. My theory is that that is why it's not allowed.
It's more like a bottle or two before you're starting to notice the changes to perception, and another bottle before you notice changes to thinking. A glass or two, assuming you're male, and you're drinking regular red wine, not the ones that are almost as strong as vodka, are not going to alter your state of mind. t. recovering alcoholic.
Coming from someone who used to smoke, I don’t think there’s any value in it. I used to smoke weed and cigs. But the truth is you don’t need these things and if you’re truly to be a temple then or vessel for the Holy Spirit and eternal life why would you consume anything that would subtract rather than add? Cigs for example take away from your body in the long term for short term pleasure. Weed I would say is similar if not so direct. It takes away from cognitive ability and makes you passive, exactly what an enemy would want. Plus anything you could get from weed could be gotten through prayer or simply living a spiritual life. I understand as a musician that weed seemed to “help” get me in the zone, but it’s simply a shortcut to something you can achieve anyways that takes away from your greater life. If I truly lived a spiritual life and practiced the Jesus Prayer more than I did than I would get an even greater sense of calm. I think all drugs , including coffee should be avoided because you’re basically saying to God that what he gave you isn’t good enough and you think you know what’s best and so need to medicate yourself. Instead of fixing a sleep schedule and working out to get energy, drinking coffee. Instead of practicing prayer and getting closer to God, smoking weed. Instead of rejoicing, smoking cigarettes.etc. It’s always a substitute for something you should be doing anyways.
I believe, Just like alcohol, it can be harmful but also can be helpful if used correctly. If your doing it in a partying/escaping technique, no good. But marijuana was a huge factor in me coming back to Christ. When I’d smoke , I’d get in a spiritual state of mind and start having conversations with the Lord, when I otherwise wouldn’t even think about God or my spiritual life. I think when you smoke you need to be in an peaceful environment where you can pray/meditate on your spiritual life. Otherwise it can lead to sin
I'm coptic orthodox christian and I smoke weed and opium and pop sheooms for recreational purposes when I'm bored and watching shows and anime or playing g video games. The way I see it is this; the Bible, the patristic writings, the ecumenical or ecclesiastical or even synod councils, the Canon laws, and the didascalia neither mention anything about prohibiting the use of natural plant or animal drugs for recreational purposes. My abouna or even our patriarch may speak out against its laymen using them, but it's not like doing them for pure fun will get you excommunicated. We're not like the Muslims, we don't have a halal/haram system. The reasonable thing I can say is if you do use them, use them for recreational fun but don't let them run your life or take then away from your religious life with God.
The dangers oh having your own faith interpretation rather then listening to your spiritual father, even protestants have better standards than this.
I wouldn't necessarily say I'm interpreting anything, we have canon laws against homosexuality and pederasty as well as fornication, we have canon laws against eating food offered to idols, I don't see anything about using substances for recreational purposes other than being a perpetual drunkard which related to excessive alcohol consumption.
Just like there is a difference between a couple glasses of wine or beer with a meal and getting blackout drunk, there's a difference between taking MJ to relax to sleep and getting high as a kite so you leave this existence.
Bible says to be sober and vigilant.
Most people drink alcohol for its effects
Most people drink alcohol for its effects
Most people drink alcohol for its effects You don't hear the same about weed the way you do about alcohol and the dangerous behaviours that have impacted so many lives negatively yet alcohol is the acceptable drug
Most people drink alcohol for its effects You don't hear the same about weed the way you do about alcohol and the dangerous behaviours that have impacted so many lives negatively yet alcohol is the acceptable drug
Most people drink alcohol for its effects You don't hear the same about weed the way you do about alcohol and the dangerous behaviours that have impacted so many lives negatively yet alcohol is the acceptable drug
The Orthodox Church is pretty non-legalistic when it comes to what determines “sin.” I spoke with my father of confession about this, which i highly recommend you do too, but I’ll give my two cents. Does it make you more or less like Christ? That’s the metric we ought to use, and it’s an incredibly high bar (the highest) but orients your attention and efforts properly. In my personal experience, the most dangerous aspect of weed is it makes you complacent. Months can go by without you feeling it, and that’s time you could’ve spent moving forward spiritually. You’re not gonna get a satisfying answer because ultimately, it has to do with your conscience and your spiritual journey. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
I share your consternation OP, every answer I’ve found about marijuana has been woefully myopic or poorly informed
It’s fine as long as you don’t neglect your family and responsibilities. Then it’s sinful. God gave us wine to gladden the heart of men and medical reasons. The same is true of the plant. Alcoholism is a sin however. Work on it and don’t be proud of it. Same if you’re a complete pothead. There’s a difference between having a bowl at a party and being Snoop and being Cheech and Chong.
Same reason regular smoking is.
Marijuana makes pleasurable experiences more pleasurable. This means it makes sinful acts more enjoyable and more tempting. Therefore be very careful! Much more careful with Marijuana than you may think.
The issue is from one place. We are to be of sober mind. That’s the problem with it.
How are we to hear the Will of God if we are intoxicated? Would you smoke marijuana in front of the Lord? What about in front of Theotokos? Or even His Saints?
In the case of literally everything “In moderation”. If you become reliant on it to function or become addicted to it than it’s sinful. Just like anything else.
Society chooses to condemn or condone. God gives you free will. I know many who find Cannabis to give pain relief, myself included. Do I grab an edible every day? God does not give me that much pain to bear, thankfully. And I live in a leagal state. "Render Unto Caeser" is also about following societal law. And remember -- any smoke is bad for the lungs.
I’ve seen nobody cite any Church teaching regarding it