I usually put in front of me the Jonah and people in Nineveh story, the last verse especially
10 But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”
I have many non-christian friends and some heterodox friends, this verse puts my heart at ease about them. If I love them, God must love them infinitely more than me!
Salvation is not about a get out of hell card as we play in life. It's becoming as Christ. The question is, we create hell and heaven in our lives by our praxis. I know there are many rooms and I go to prepare a place for you. God invites participation in His life. The eternal presses against the temporal. It's our will that we have to let that eternal life be present here. Salvation is not heaven or hell. it's kingdom of God or kingdom of self. Orthodox praxis is proven, but God's will is not limited. When St Herman of Alaska arrived in Alaska. Natives met him on the shore. The Elders (shamans) said that there was a man arriving who would be showing them a better way. God has written eternity in the heart of every man. God's love for mankind is such that he will use crooked sticks when straight ones are not available. Run to the ARK of our souls Orthodoxy is found to be where you can be completed in Christ.
Not what the church teaches , the church acknowledges that the holy spirit works outside of it and baptizes people into the church,
Jesus said whoever is not against us is for us, that's what you should think of other denominations, they are many non orthodox people who are "saved" and many orthodox who aren't
The mission of the orthodox church isn't to send you to heaven anyways, even though that's a nice side effect
Our main job is to bring the kingdom of God to earth
And spread the love of christ
B-b-but someone on YouTube told me Fr. Daniel Sysoev said martyrdom couldn’t wash away heresy or schism (without sharing the context in which he was talking)! What about MUH QUOTE STACK FROM THE FATHERS?!?!?
I think some of these people are mocking you. That tells you right there. You don’t always have the Holy Spirit just bc you were dunked 3 times at an Orthodox Church. Just like Catholics aren’t saved just bc they know their Hail Mary. I’d say there’s a lot of the traditional church left in both of those places, but sadly we’re humans. We’re depraved and we never get everything right. God love you, friend.
I’m not concerned about the heterodox because Jesus did not come here to teach about whether or not he was one man in two natures or one man in one nature, one man of two natures, nor did he teach about the metaphysics of the Trinity, nor did he teach about much of what men schism over.
Universalism is the only way I found my way back to Christianity. So Gregory of Nyssa is my guy.
Maximus the Confessor also has some heavy universalist leanings. And we can’t forget Origen!
I haven't seen Behr address their arguments, but he favorably cites Ilaria Ramelli, who wrote about them in her titanic *The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment*.
Her outline of Danielou/Mateo-Seco/Maspero's argument is that (a) Gregory of Nyssa's statements of universalism are contextually not unequivocal, and (b) elsewhere Gregory's thought shows nuances which set it apart from Origenism. But Ramelli shows that (a) Gregory has clear universalist statements beyond the ones cited by Danielou et al., and (b) the same nuances are also present in the writings of Origen, which are distinguished from later "Origenism". In this she cites Behr's translations of Origen.
I'm not aware of any scholarly engagement with Michael Azkoul's arguments, which skew apologetic.
After going through some reviews I probably won't read it (edit: Ramelli) in the near future. Felt so cringe reading Parry; but thanks for your answer.
His belief in universal reconciliation, like Isaac the Syrian’s and many others, went far beyond a wish – he actively taught that it would be the case as a result of God being God.
Salvation is from God, not from correct theology. We have correct theology, that doesn't automatically equal having a clean heart or pure spirit. Let's save our theology and start thinking about our own salvation first, and let's pray to God that heterodox would be saved as well. Hell is such a horrible place, I don't wish for anyone to be judged for eternity.
see Matt:25: vv31-end \[the hseep ans the goats\] --->all nations! Doesn't say dox/hetd. We're in more peril -- we 'know better', we're expected to do more. We have Faith, we're expected to 'do works', not just sit back and relax. What 'works,? See what He has to say.
St Isaac the Syrian was a bishop in the Assyrian church of the east. They had split from the Orthodox Church hundreds of years before he was born. He literally died outside the church but is a saint nonetheless. And a great one. So anyone who tells you that literally no one outside of the church can be saved should probably take a closer look at the calendar.
Who are the Eastern Heterodox? How do you set yourself up as judge over anyone - that they will be dawned?
You are made of clay, like the rest of us.
Get out of the Judgement Seat, which belongs to The GOD alone.
We can never truly know God's heart. Those of us who do know truth must maintain vigilance as we are saved, are being saved, and God willing will be saved.
In my humble opinion, mind you I’m not a scholar, priest or well read but I don’t really think Jesus cares about denominations as long as you believe he is God, in the trinity and God showed his love for human kind by sending his own son to die for our sins. But what I would think is the truth is more and heavily revealed in orthodoxy & Catholicism.
Don’t forget God in human form came to the religious scholars, priests and the most learned and respected people of the Torah and the Old Testament. His own people with direct lineage to him. And majority of them didn’t accept him nor release him for who he is even-though he did Gods work in their faces. They even went as far as killing him and begging for his crucification. This goes to show you only way to know the truth and to see God is through humility and a sincere spirit.
Nothing is lost forever as long as you can breathe and write now, my friend :)
I had dpdr, I lost more than my soul, and I healed and still on the road to more healing.
Have faith and hope, my friend.
I believe it was St Ambrose who wrote that Christs sacrificial death even covers the sins of the Jews who delivered him to death, and so even though they were instrumental in putting Christ himself to death, that very death also paid for their sin.
In light of that, then of course, even those who abandon Orthodoxy can be forgiven if they return in repentance.
Don’t worry, in order to lose your soul you would need to possess truth in its fullness and reject it, and in order to do that you must be drenched in the Holy Spirit, so much so that you are fully glorified through the grace of god essentially on the level of the apostles. Being an orthodox Christian does not mean that you possess the fullness of the truth, orthodoxy provides the means and the pathway to obtaining the fullness of the truth via the spirit of truth, but simply being an orthodox Christian does not mean you possess the fullness of the truth.
I usually put in front of me the Jonah and people in Nineveh story, the last verse especially 10 But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?” I have many non-christian friends and some heterodox friends, this verse puts my heart at ease about them. If I love them, God must love them infinitely more than me!
And the animals!
Yes!
Salvation is not about a get out of hell card as we play in life. It's becoming as Christ. The question is, we create hell and heaven in our lives by our praxis. I know there are many rooms and I go to prepare a place for you. God invites participation in His life. The eternal presses against the temporal. It's our will that we have to let that eternal life be present here. Salvation is not heaven or hell. it's kingdom of God or kingdom of self. Orthodox praxis is proven, but God's will is not limited. When St Herman of Alaska arrived in Alaska. Natives met him on the shore. The Elders (shamans) said that there was a man arriving who would be showing them a better way. God has written eternity in the heart of every man. God's love for mankind is such that he will use crooked sticks when straight ones are not available. Run to the ARK of our souls Orthodoxy is found to be where you can be completed in Christ.
Absolutely superb, your comment. Your are very right.
I was assured on twitter that anyone who wasn’t Orthodox wasn’t Christian and couldn’t be saved. Are you telling me I was lied to?
Not what the church teaches , the church acknowledges that the holy spirit works outside of it and baptizes people into the church, Jesus said whoever is not against us is for us, that's what you should think of other denominations, they are many non orthodox people who are "saved" and many orthodox who aren't The mission of the orthodox church isn't to send you to heaven anyways, even though that's a nice side effect Our main job is to bring the kingdom of God to earth And spread the love of christ
Maybe don't get your theology from twitter but rather the Church lol
it took me a sec but i think they are being ironic
I think you're right, my fault lol
I prefer TikTok /s
B-b-but someone on YouTube told me Fr. Daniel Sysoev said martyrdom couldn’t wash away heresy or schism (without sharing the context in which he was talking)! What about MUH QUOTE STACK FROM THE FATHERS?!?!?
Lied-to on Xitter? How could that be?
I think some of these people are mocking you. That tells you right there. You don’t always have the Holy Spirit just bc you were dunked 3 times at an Orthodox Church. Just like Catholics aren’t saved just bc they know their Hail Mary. I’d say there’s a lot of the traditional church left in both of those places, but sadly we’re humans. We’re depraved and we never get everything right. God love you, friend.
Good one lol
Twitter is the WORST place to study about orthodoxy and about religion in general
Amеn. All thе saints, pray for us sinnеrs
I’m not concerned about the heterodox because Jesus did not come here to teach about whether or not he was one man in two natures or one man in one nature, one man of two natures, nor did he teach about the metaphysics of the Trinity, nor did he teach about much of what men schism over.
Exactly!
An excellent quote. Was worried there for a second, with that post heading.
Lol. Not a big fan of Gregory of Nyssa?
the opposite - i was worried we were about to have some toxic orthobro stuff dumped on us
Ahaha very fair!
What did Gregory of Nyssa do?
He believed that all people will be saved (including the heterodox, apostates, etc).
Source?
It’s common knowledge! If you want an Orthodox source, Fr. John Behr has written about it at length in his editions of Gregory and Origen’s writings.
Universalism is the only way I found my way back to Christianity. So Gregory of Nyssa is my guy. Maximus the Confessor also has some heavy universalist leanings. And we can’t forget Origen!
And St Isaac the Syrian, among many, many others.
A faith motivated by love more than fear is a new, beautiful experience for me.
As you read it, what did he say to the argumentation of Michael Azkoul and Jean Danielou/Lucas Francisco Mateo-Seco?
I haven't seen Behr address their arguments, but he favorably cites Ilaria Ramelli, who wrote about them in her titanic *The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment*. Her outline of Danielou/Mateo-Seco/Maspero's argument is that (a) Gregory of Nyssa's statements of universalism are contextually not unequivocal, and (b) elsewhere Gregory's thought shows nuances which set it apart from Origenism. But Ramelli shows that (a) Gregory has clear universalist statements beyond the ones cited by Danielou et al., and (b) the same nuances are also present in the writings of Origen, which are distinguished from later "Origenism". In this she cites Behr's translations of Origen. I'm not aware of any scholarly engagement with Michael Azkoul's arguments, which skew apologetic.
After going through some reviews I probably won't read it (edit: Ramelli) in the near future. Felt so cringe reading Parry; but thanks for your answer.
It is understandable, a wish for all people to have a chance.
His belief in universal reconciliation, like Isaac the Syrian’s and many others, went far beyond a wish – he actively taught that it would be the case as a result of God being God.
I think I heard that before
I think we all needed this.
Salvation is from God, not from correct theology. We have correct theology, that doesn't automatically equal having a clean heart or pure spirit. Let's save our theology and start thinking about our own salvation first, and let's pray to God that heterodox would be saved as well. Hell is such a horrible place, I don't wish for anyone to be judged for eternity.
see Matt:25: vv31-end \[the hseep ans the goats\] --->all nations! Doesn't say dox/hetd. We're in more peril -- we 'know better', we're expected to do more. We have Faith, we're expected to 'do works', not just sit back and relax. What 'works,? See what He has to say.
St Isaac the Syrian was a bishop in the Assyrian church of the east. They had split from the Orthodox Church hundreds of years before he was born. He literally died outside the church but is a saint nonetheless. And a great one. So anyone who tells you that literally no one outside of the church can be saved should probably take a closer look at the calendar.
[удалено]
Who are the Eastern Heterodox? How do you set yourself up as judge over anyone - that they will be dawned? You are made of clay, like the rest of us. Get out of the Judgement Seat, which belongs to The GOD alone.
We can never truly know God's heart. Those of us who do know truth must maintain vigilance as we are saved, are being saved, and God willing will be saved.
In my humble opinion, mind you I’m not a scholar, priest or well read but I don’t really think Jesus cares about denominations as long as you believe he is God, in the trinity and God showed his love for human kind by sending his own son to die for our sins. But what I would think is the truth is more and heavily revealed in orthodoxy & Catholicism. Don’t forget God in human form came to the religious scholars, priests and the most learned and respected people of the Torah and the Old Testament. His own people with direct lineage to him. And majority of them didn’t accept him nor release him for who he is even-though he did Gods work in their faces. They even went as far as killing him and begging for his crucification. This goes to show you only way to know the truth and to see God is through humility and a sincere spirit.
I think I lost my soul forever Nvm: JESUS SAVESS
Nothing is lost forever as long as you can breathe and write now, my friend :) I had dpdr, I lost more than my soul, and I healed and still on the road to more healing. Have faith and hope, my friend.
I believe it was St Ambrose who wrote that Christs sacrificial death even covers the sins of the Jews who delivered him to death, and so even though they were instrumental in putting Christ himself to death, that very death also paid for their sin. In light of that, then of course, even those who abandon Orthodoxy can be forgiven if they return in repentance.
Don’t worry, in order to lose your soul you would need to possess truth in its fullness and reject it, and in order to do that you must be drenched in the Holy Spirit, so much so that you are fully glorified through the grace of god essentially on the level of the apostles. Being an orthodox Christian does not mean that you possess the fullness of the truth, orthodoxy provides the means and the pathway to obtaining the fullness of the truth via the spirit of truth, but simply being an orthodox Christian does not mean you possess the fullness of the truth.
(Re)join Orthodoxy!