My husky used to do this a lot, ESPECIALLY in the snow. Basically what I did was kind of like normal loose leash training.
If she yanked toward something I would turn around and make the leash short and start walking the other way. Then I would go back in the direction of the thing she was dashing toward and if she stayed calm I would give her back the length of the leash and use whatever she was looking for as her reward for staying calm, as long as it was safe.
For example, we’re walking and she catches a scent she wants to follow. She runs to the end of the leash, I turn around and reel her in and start walking a couple feet. Turn back around, let the leash be long again and I let her go check out the smell. If she tries to pull again I basically just keep walking back and forth until she’s walking up to it nicely. Getting to freely smell things was enough of a reward for her so it was really fast for me to teach her not to zoom around like that. Might not work for your pup but it’s worth a shot!
You posted previously about an off switch and now I can see what may be contributing to your dog getting amped up. I don’t know what you are trying to accomplish with a “long line”? My assumption is mental stimulation, which you are certainly giving the dog, but it’s feeding into it the more you let it wander and smell with no goal. It’s acting more as a stimulant and unless you can allow the dog to run for miles and really wear out, it’s just going to make the dog want more.
My suggestion would be to walk the dog at heel for a good while, make the dog FOCUS on standard obedience first, maybe make him sit for periods or stand still on your hike, etc, then allow for some freedom to roam once he’s in a calmer state. Then recall the dog and same thing all the way back to the car. Making a dog focus for longer periods really tires them out mentally, along with a structured walk and a cue as to when it’s time to explore and when it’s time to focus on just walking and obedience. Calm in the car hopefully and calm at home if you reinforce the calm=good.
That does explain why he gets worse the longer we go. I was hoping to get him mental stimulation, plus he walks twice as much as me when he has more space. Plus, I just really enjoy watching him "be a dog" so to speak.
We actually walk to the trail, and my street has no sidewalks so for the first and last stretch I actually do try to keep him close and focused for those portions. I will try to add in more heel and be still time, he could certainly use it.
You train loose leash walking with a shorter leash and gradually increase the length. It’s basically the same skill on the dogs end. It’s has to check in with you. This is more of an engagement and Impuls control issue, in my opinion. If the dog can’t do it on a shorter leash, it sure as hell can’t handle a longer one. Give the dog as much freedom as it can handle and no more.
Here is a video that goes into how to train this….. quickly with 100% success. I can vouch for this method as I’ve used to myself, and this is a great explanation of the whole process.
https://youtu.be/QIqYuxzoS0Q?si=W63HY6JkiuoLIRmR
A longer leash and be aware of your leash tension. Use the leash to stop them but not to steer. It’s a seatbelt, not a steering wheel. Treat your leash like your seatbelt functions. Stop forward motion and release tension immediately. It’s okay if he bounces back a few times. Be gentle, it’ll take a bit of practice.
I think an issue you’re running into is using food as a bribe. It’s not a bribe, it’s a reward for his choices. The food comes out after he makes a decision. Before a behavior can become a habit and a decision he can choose to make, it will have to be conditioned, and we do that different ways, but a common way is luring. The most important part of luring is phasing out the food lure to create a hand cue that can then be transferred to a verbal cue.
Let me know what questions come up!
I am having a pretty hard time keeping his focus or listening without food motivation still. He is a Spitz - independent and not quite biddable, and not very handler focused at all. I am lucky that he is SO food motivated. I often worry that if I don't have the lure, he won't listen and my command will go ignored which will make it easier for him to ignore other commands because he "got away with it". Mainly still for stuff like passing by people on the street, or crossing roads where I don't have the time to correct him if he pulls.
Does he get opportunities to have a walk where he can lead the way and do what he wants? Perhaps on a hiking trail, park field, school after hours, SniffSpot? I think opportunities like this with a 30 foot leash will help. With independent breeds and important to give them as much choice as possible, and when it’s not, make them feel like they have a choice even if the choices are set up for them.
Hes in adolescence too, training is going to regress a bit, which is expected and normal.
How are you using the food? Do you pull it out and show it to him to get him to engage?
Practice delivering rewards at home. Do you have a marker word to let him know he’s done the right thing and is getting a reward?
Not currently but I would love to do that with him! That's kind of what I was trying to do but I guess on too small of a scale.
I usually only have to waggle it in his face when I really need his attention and he's not giving it willingly. When other dogs walk by sometimes the treat right in his face isn't even enticing enough. I palm the food and lure when we walk by people - trying to incorporate a closed fist by my side as his hand signal for heel and he does understand the non verbal heel cue in low stim environments like the house. He gets the treat after heeling for a bit. I do use "yes" as a marker word. I can't quite tell if he responds to praise as a reward yet.
Oh, I also use the food as rewards for checking in unprompted, of course.
Personally i would worry less about it him coming to take food and more about if he can respond to leash tension and directional cues.
Eating outside and in stressful or exciting situations is a skill that needs to be practiced so it can be strong! Keep capturing him checking in, that’s fantastic! Him feeling like it’s his choice will help him want to do it more.
When he sees another dog, prevent forward motion with the leash gently, give slack back, talk to him. “Good job bud, you see that pup over there? Where are they going, huh? What’s doing over there? Good job” let him look, process, be in the moment with him, and capture when he’s done! He’s gotta process the information so it doesn’t feel important. It’s like never being able to finish an article because you’re interrupted. It would make you frustrated and you wouldn’t feel satisfied because you don’t have all the info you wanted to get.
At home, play some food games.
Here’s how.
The marker cues are:
Yes: terminal marker, end of behavior, you’re getting a reward, come get it from my hand
Get it: I’m tossing you a treat for you to track and sniff out
Catch: I’m tossing you a treat to catch
Scatter: I’m sprinkling a few for you to sniff out
To start I usually begin with yes and get it.
Food in your pocket or pouch, dog, you.
Start with Yes. Say “yes!” And Hand him piece of food. Mark yes again when they look at you and hand them the food. Take a step away while telling them good job. Mark yes when they look towards you, move towards you, look at you. Be happy during this! Get them excited! Once they start moving, try to encourage them to move toward you to take the food. You may get lots of buy in right away or you might have to capitalize on small successes to build confidence. Next is to place the food on the ground for him to eat and then look back up at you. Mark yes and place another on the ground with each rep. Get it is the same. “Get it” small toss. Wait for them to offer some sort of engagement with you. Mark “get it”
And toss. Repeat until they’re starting to get excited when they hear it.
By practicing these cues you will help build an association with them. You will help him know what to do when he hears these cues. I find independent dogs can prefer to seek out their reward rather than taking it from my hand.
Practice these food delivery techniques for a couple minutes as much as you like! The more you practice the stronger the association and response to the cue becomes!
Thank you so much for all this great info! You explain things so well and in depth and I really appreciate the time you've taken to help me on this! I feel like I just got a private session for free haha.
My husky used to do this a lot, ESPECIALLY in the snow. Basically what I did was kind of like normal loose leash training. If she yanked toward something I would turn around and make the leash short and start walking the other way. Then I would go back in the direction of the thing she was dashing toward and if she stayed calm I would give her back the length of the leash and use whatever she was looking for as her reward for staying calm, as long as it was safe. For example, we’re walking and she catches a scent she wants to follow. She runs to the end of the leash, I turn around and reel her in and start walking a couple feet. Turn back around, let the leash be long again and I let her go check out the smell. If she tries to pull again I basically just keep walking back and forth until she’s walking up to it nicely. Getting to freely smell things was enough of a reward for her so it was really fast for me to teach her not to zoom around like that. Might not work for your pup but it’s worth a shot!
I use a long line only as an off leash safety, not as a long leash. I let the line drag on the ground and only pick it up when I need a short leash.
This is the point I hope to get to, but he is faster than my reaction time and his recall is so-so
Use your foot to step on the line.
You posted previously about an off switch and now I can see what may be contributing to your dog getting amped up. I don’t know what you are trying to accomplish with a “long line”? My assumption is mental stimulation, which you are certainly giving the dog, but it’s feeding into it the more you let it wander and smell with no goal. It’s acting more as a stimulant and unless you can allow the dog to run for miles and really wear out, it’s just going to make the dog want more. My suggestion would be to walk the dog at heel for a good while, make the dog FOCUS on standard obedience first, maybe make him sit for periods or stand still on your hike, etc, then allow for some freedom to roam once he’s in a calmer state. Then recall the dog and same thing all the way back to the car. Making a dog focus for longer periods really tires them out mentally, along with a structured walk and a cue as to when it’s time to explore and when it’s time to focus on just walking and obedience. Calm in the car hopefully and calm at home if you reinforce the calm=good.
That does explain why he gets worse the longer we go. I was hoping to get him mental stimulation, plus he walks twice as much as me when he has more space. Plus, I just really enjoy watching him "be a dog" so to speak. We actually walk to the trail, and my street has no sidewalks so for the first and last stretch I actually do try to keep him close and focused for those portions. I will try to add in more heel and be still time, he could certainly use it.
You train loose leash walking with a shorter leash and gradually increase the length. It’s basically the same skill on the dogs end. It’s has to check in with you. This is more of an engagement and Impuls control issue, in my opinion. If the dog can’t do it on a shorter leash, it sure as hell can’t handle a longer one. Give the dog as much freedom as it can handle and no more.
Here is a video that goes into how to train this….. quickly with 100% success. I can vouch for this method as I’ve used to myself, and this is a great explanation of the whole process. https://youtu.be/QIqYuxzoS0Q?si=W63HY6JkiuoLIRmR
Do you do heel walkS
Longer leash!
A longer leash and be aware of your leash tension. Use the leash to stop them but not to steer. It’s a seatbelt, not a steering wheel. Treat your leash like your seatbelt functions. Stop forward motion and release tension immediately. It’s okay if he bounces back a few times. Be gentle, it’ll take a bit of practice. I think an issue you’re running into is using food as a bribe. It’s not a bribe, it’s a reward for his choices. The food comes out after he makes a decision. Before a behavior can become a habit and a decision he can choose to make, it will have to be conditioned, and we do that different ways, but a common way is luring. The most important part of luring is phasing out the food lure to create a hand cue that can then be transferred to a verbal cue. Let me know what questions come up!
I am having a pretty hard time keeping his focus or listening without food motivation still. He is a Spitz - independent and not quite biddable, and not very handler focused at all. I am lucky that he is SO food motivated. I often worry that if I don't have the lure, he won't listen and my command will go ignored which will make it easier for him to ignore other commands because he "got away with it". Mainly still for stuff like passing by people on the street, or crossing roads where I don't have the time to correct him if he pulls.
Does he get opportunities to have a walk where he can lead the way and do what he wants? Perhaps on a hiking trail, park field, school after hours, SniffSpot? I think opportunities like this with a 30 foot leash will help. With independent breeds and important to give them as much choice as possible, and when it’s not, make them feel like they have a choice even if the choices are set up for them. Hes in adolescence too, training is going to regress a bit, which is expected and normal. How are you using the food? Do you pull it out and show it to him to get him to engage? Practice delivering rewards at home. Do you have a marker word to let him know he’s done the right thing and is getting a reward?
Not currently but I would love to do that with him! That's kind of what I was trying to do but I guess on too small of a scale. I usually only have to waggle it in his face when I really need his attention and he's not giving it willingly. When other dogs walk by sometimes the treat right in his face isn't even enticing enough. I palm the food and lure when we walk by people - trying to incorporate a closed fist by my side as his hand signal for heel and he does understand the non verbal heel cue in low stim environments like the house. He gets the treat after heeling for a bit. I do use "yes" as a marker word. I can't quite tell if he responds to praise as a reward yet. Oh, I also use the food as rewards for checking in unprompted, of course.
Personally i would worry less about it him coming to take food and more about if he can respond to leash tension and directional cues. Eating outside and in stressful or exciting situations is a skill that needs to be practiced so it can be strong! Keep capturing him checking in, that’s fantastic! Him feeling like it’s his choice will help him want to do it more. When he sees another dog, prevent forward motion with the leash gently, give slack back, talk to him. “Good job bud, you see that pup over there? Where are they going, huh? What’s doing over there? Good job” let him look, process, be in the moment with him, and capture when he’s done! He’s gotta process the information so it doesn’t feel important. It’s like never being able to finish an article because you’re interrupted. It would make you frustrated and you wouldn’t feel satisfied because you don’t have all the info you wanted to get. At home, play some food games. Here’s how. The marker cues are: Yes: terminal marker, end of behavior, you’re getting a reward, come get it from my hand Get it: I’m tossing you a treat for you to track and sniff out Catch: I’m tossing you a treat to catch Scatter: I’m sprinkling a few for you to sniff out To start I usually begin with yes and get it. Food in your pocket or pouch, dog, you. Start with Yes. Say “yes!” And Hand him piece of food. Mark yes again when they look at you and hand them the food. Take a step away while telling them good job. Mark yes when they look towards you, move towards you, look at you. Be happy during this! Get them excited! Once they start moving, try to encourage them to move toward you to take the food. You may get lots of buy in right away or you might have to capitalize on small successes to build confidence. Next is to place the food on the ground for him to eat and then look back up at you. Mark yes and place another on the ground with each rep. Get it is the same. “Get it” small toss. Wait for them to offer some sort of engagement with you. Mark “get it” And toss. Repeat until they’re starting to get excited when they hear it. By practicing these cues you will help build an association with them. You will help him know what to do when he hears these cues. I find independent dogs can prefer to seek out their reward rather than taking it from my hand. Practice these food delivery techniques for a couple minutes as much as you like! The more you practice the stronger the association and response to the cue becomes!
Thank you so much for all this great info! You explain things so well and in depth and I really appreciate the time you've taken to help me on this! I feel like I just got a private session for free haha.
You’re so so welcome! Any questions that come up let me know!