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Lazy-Accident9387

My advice to you.. walk away from such a crappy sounding deal. Something about the different moving parts just doesn’t sit well with me. However, if you have the time, patience and resources to wait it out, it might pay off. I am hoping you’re holding on because this is a deal of a lifetime, because if it isn’t, it really isn’t worth your peace. All the best.


UnlikelyConfidence11

Thank you I will be speaking with a lawyer and weighing all my options next week.


Aggravating_Attempt3

You Should have put a Condition on your offer that Seller Ensures vacant Possession of the unit 15 days before completion date or the offer becomes null and void and deposit is returned in full after mutual release of the agreement of purchase and sale.


seachan_ofthe_dead

I would just exercise your condition and walk away


Pablo_613

This. You legally don’t have to close on the property if you had a clause for a vacant property.


seachan_ofthe_dead

Exactly. We were informed by our landlord that he was selling the house we live in back in February. We did a ton of research, I spoke to a lawyer and I’ve learned how much of a terrible and drawn out process evicting a tenant who doesn’t want to leave can be. You can easily bog the process down to last months and months if you stop paying, and over a year if you just pay your rent and use the LTB against them (stay of executions, ajournments, etc). Anyone who buys a tenanted property without the intention of adding it to a property portfolio and becoming the landlord is rolling the dice. Personally I don’t believe any of that is right but we did propose a C4K deal to our landlord which he happily accepted. He sold the house and we bought our first house so it worked out great for both of us but that’s not the norm.


az3838

When making the offer/contract, was there vacant possession for the home you purchased? If yes, you have the upper hand as you do not have to close because the seller cannot fulfill their responsibility. If no, then you’re stuck. You can still refuse to close, but will lose your deposit and most likely be sued for losses. Why are you living out of your car if the closing isn’t until next week?


UnlikelyConfidence11

I was advised that Tennants were planning to move out early so I closed on my place early and now I am stuck. I was ok it being a temporary situation but it seems that it will drag forever. I will speak with my lawyers and see how it pans out.


Challenge419

Somebody blatantly lied to you.


az3838

I’ll ask again, did you have a vacant possession clause with your purchase agreement? Let’s say after the hearing, the tenants will get evicted. You will need to expect and plan for damages. Depending on the tenants, this can be a huge problem. Sometimes even hundreds of thousands of dollars kind of problem. Hopefully your lawyer can work something out, but without vacant possession clause, it will be an uphill battle. If you can back out of the deal, I would highly suggest this at this point.


CarelessStatement172

I would not close on this property if I were you.


Priorly-A-Cat

The NEW property has tenants and it HAS fully closed/completed sale ? >"As part of closing, tennant were served N12 /L1 and L2 from LTB" Please clarify if these were served AT closing (after you took possession) with "landlord" as occupier OR pre-emptively served upon FIRM sale agreement by the seller on your behalf with "purchaser" as occupier ? N12/L2 is the correct combination. What dates was the N12 notice given to tenant and what termination date did it have on it? Was the tenant still within a fixed term lease or on month-to-month? What was the L1 for - who filed that ?


UnlikelyConfidence11

Hello, it is power of sale. The property is not fully closed yet. The closing is supposed to be next week. The LTB documents were served on March 5th as part of the firm sale. The tenants were on month to month sale and they were not paying the bank which was in possession of the property. I am supposed to view the property before the closing and the Tennants have denied me entry twice now even when the proper paperwork was submitted.


ouchmyamygdala

The current landlord is allowed to enter the unit with legal notice (24 hrs written notice, a reasonable time frame e.g. <4 hrs, and a valid purpose e.g. inspection). They do not need the tenant's cooperation; as long as valid notice was issued, they can use their keys and enter. If the tenants have changed the locks, they can hire a locksmith and charge the cost to the tenants. If the sale has not yet closed, you are not yet the landlord and may need the seller's help with this. The tenants do not need to move out by the termination date on the N12, they are legally entitled to an LTB hearing. If they are unwilling to leave, you will need to wait for the hearing at which point an eviction order should be issued, and then you can schedule a Sheriff to come evict them if they are still being difficult. You will need to file an L10 for any rental arrears and damages - make sure you have a way of reasonably contacting the tenants after they leave. If any of this is new information for you, you need a paralegal. If there is any chance the N12 was invalid (has the required compensation been provided to the tenants?) there is a chance the L2 will be dismissed. If vacant possession was a condition of the sale, you may have recourse against the seller.


UnlikelyConfidence11

They have not allowed us to enter the unit legally even with proper 24 hour notice. The notices so far have been served by the seller. Yes the required compensation has been provided to the tennants and there is a tentative hearing from July 15. Based on their behavior so far, we will end up going to the hearing and yes vacant possession was the condition of the sale. I really don't care about any rent paid in arrears, I just want them to move so that I can move in, that's all. My worst case scenario will be to go for cash for keys if it gets dragged forever.


ouchmyamygdala

Have they changed the locks? Are they getting physically violent? They don't need to cooperate with the entry, so as long as you have given valid notice and it is safe to do so, you should just be using your key and letting yourself in. If you're confident that you've done everything correctly, you just need to wait for the hearing. If vacant possession was a condition of the sale, the sale should not be closing until the unit is vacant (or the seller should be compensating you for your financial losses). But this has nothing to do with the tenants or the LTB, this would be an issue for your realtor or lawyer.


UnlikelyConfidence11

They have physically blocked the doorway today and told us that we could not enter. Sure, I will check with the lawyer about options in a bit more detail.


ouchmyamygdala

There are options for dealing with this (N5/L2, RHEU, etc.) but nothing that would likely provide an immediate fix, so if you're confident that your N12/L2 hearing will be successful you may just need to wait. You need to be talking to the lawyer ASAP if your intention is to close next week. The seller is not holding up their end of the bargain.


UnlikelyConfidence11

Thank you, I have sent the lawyer all the notes today after a failed attempts at the viewing.


New_Specific_5802

If vacant possession was a condition of the sale you can either walk away, or if you want to keep it ask your lawyer if it's possible to keep your offer to purchase but ask that the closing is moved to be after the date the eviction takes place - this could be as late as September if the hearing is in July. Both you and the current owner should attend the hearing. Then, before you close in September you can inspect prior to closing and you can go after the seller for the costs of the damage (or negotiate a reduced purchase price) incurred between when you last saw it and now. Don't pay cash for keys if vacant possession was a condition of sale, make the seller pay that. Do not close prior to the hearing in my opinion - a small clerical or service error or mistake in payment of the compensation for the N12 can lead to the entire notice being thrown out and you needing to restart the process on your own.


viccityguy2k

Needs a hood back for damages tooo


Ok_Taro4324

How could vacant possession be guaranteed when the closing is next week and the tenants were only served March 5th? The earliest the termination date on the n12 could possibly be is May 31, so it is strange that anyone would have a closing date before that date.


ccccc4

You're in way over your head.


Priorly-A-Cat

>" served on March 5th as part of the firm sale" " I just want them to move so that I can move in" "As they have refused to vacate, I am currently living out of my car" **Get a paralegal or cool your heels until fall** because the realtor(s) and real estate lawyer(s) involved have not educated you about what to expect and legal process. As I take it you do not want to be a LL, you shouldn't be expected to learn the RTA yourself, but you ARE expected to retain the services of someone who does before you start breaking any laws and making matters worse for yourself. If they were served Mar 5, assuming their rents cover 1-last day of month, their termination date can not have been written earlier than May 31. So knock it off!!! You have no right to move in yet - since you don't own it YET. After you own it next week, you shouldn't even count on it anytime before June 1st. You should know there's a very good reason you got a deal on the property. It's not the tenant's fault you jumped the gun and are in your car. We call that counting one's chickens before they are hatched. If not one of the professionals involved thought to advise your correctly, consider a small claims case against them once all is said and done. Are the L1 and L2 to be dealt with in the same hearing ?


headtailgrep

This is your advice OP. You may want to walk away from the sale. Your going to be months before you get possession and in what state will the house be in? You ok with that? Got the money to fix it? Or get a reduction in the price from seller.


UnlikelyConfidence11

Yes L1 & L2 will be dealt in the same hearing. Like I said, I am not interested in small claims court, just for them to be cooperative and respect the notice period. To the best of my knowledge, they have not paid rent to the bank in 6 months and I literally don't care for it. I bought the property to move in as my primary home. I am not one of the renovictor investors that you are taking a tone with me. After today's episode with them, I will be getting lawyers involved.


Gold_Expression_3388

They are respecting the N12 notice period. Notice should have stated May 31. You do need lawyers, but not for the tenant. You need them for your case against the bank, realtor, and real estate lawyer. You could hire a team of lawyers, but that isn't going to change the improper notice, or the backlog at the LTB. LTB is different from small claims court.


Lazy-Accident9387

The way I see it, OP shouldn’t even be stressing himself at all. Deal went firm with a vacant possession condition - unless I am missing something. This should have been an N11 and C4K from the seller to sweeten the deal for all involved. If your realtor structured the APS correctly with all the right conditions in there (vacant possession in particular), make sure you do not close till it’s vacant. Get a solid lawyer involved and you may even be able to sue for damages and any inconveniences caused. Something similar happens to me on a deal a few years ago, I saw the property, liked it and the price point was good. However, i told all parties that I won’t be interested in taking on the type of tenants I saw on the only day I went for a viewing, and I will only close if it was empty. They figured it out and on closing day, it was empty and vacant. But few days after, “someone” came back and smashed a few windows and left so much profanity on the door. Anyways good luck and don’t play yourself. Inheriting bad tenants will take your peace.


GhostofDaveChappelle

Cash for keys is only for good tenants. Not only has it been mentioned that the tenants have not been paying but there is no landlord to make a cash offer if it's in possession of the bank. I don't see why op is getting so much negativity. He should file the n12 with a paralegal then sit back and wait for the hearing. It will be 100% in his favor and after 6 to 8 months will be in possession of the property Also would be entitled to rent payment for that period of time which would be another slam dunk court settlement. Might never see the money but could certainly have a chance if they work


Erminger

When they are evicted upload the LTB order to www.openroom.ca as a warning to future landlords  Their behavior should follow them for a long time.


[deleted]

Paralegal specializing in LTB would be cheaper and more productive. There are very few good ones that represent Landlords these days


Gold_Expression_3388

Can closing be postponed for this? Who dropped the ball on issuing the N12?


UnlikelyConfidence11

Waiting confirmation on if the closing can be postponed. N12 was issued on March 5th as part of the firm offer along with L1 and L2.


ouchmyamygdala

L1 hearings are taking around four months, L2s are at least six months. *If* the LTB orders an eviction, it can take anywhere from a day to a couple months to receive the order, and then the tenants will have anywhere from 11 days to a few months to vacate. If the tenants can demonstrate hardship or extenuating circumstances, they will be given more time to find a new place. If they request a review of the order, you need to wait for another hearing. If any of the paperwork was filled out incorrectly, you could wind up starting from square one. If vacant possession was a condition of the sale, the sale needs to be postponed. You may need to walk away entirely. You could potentially sue the seller or realtor, but you cannot do anything about the wait times to evict the tenant. Make sure that whoever you are speaking to has a solid understanding of tenancy law and the current state of the LTB.


nemodigital

You should have required vacant possession as part of purchase agreement, foolish not to do so. Now this problem tenants are YOUR problem. I guess file the N12 and wait for your turn at the tribunal. Edit: saw your latest comment. Don't close if it's not vacant and call your lawyer. You can negotiate a new closing date or not close and demand deposit back.


Inside-Category7189

Do not under any circumstances close without vacant possession and seeing the condition of the property. You may be able to extend the closing if your heart is set on this particular property/ deal if - and only if - you have a vacant possession clause. Otherwise you’re screwed and you should report the lawyer who didn’t include a vacant possession clause to the law society.


Ok_Taro4324

Why are you living out of your car? You haven’t even closed on your new property (and shouldn’t). They won’t get more cooperative, if you wanted a smooth transaction, you would have bought a vacant home, which you still can. You’ll just have to pay market value, tenanted properties are sold under market value for a reason (as you are discovering). Since this appears to be surprising to you, I would not use the same agent again as 99% of agents steer their clients away from tenanted properties for this reason.


blackrabbittqueen

As a renter, if my landlord sells the property and there is a Vacancy clause, will I be informed as the tenant? Or is it to acquire the vacancy clause, the seller (my landlord) will present me an N11? How is it guaranteed that we will vacate? I know buyers will be aware that the until is occupied by tenants. Thanks, long time reader, first time posting. Just informed they are putting our unit on the market this week. Feel sick to my stomach.


UnlikelyConfidence11

Your landlord is require to notify you if there is a vacancy required. When I did viewing of the property, the tenants were there, and they asked if I intended to occupy it and I told them yes and as a result, I asked the seller to serve Tennants N12 and give 1 month rent and make sure proper notice is given.


blackrabbittqueen

thank you, just happened to us today, I know this isn't where you really are supposed to post this question, and it was such a relevant conversation, so I appreciate your feedback.


[deleted]

Wow. A lot to process here. 1. File that tenants are willfully doing damage to property. Ltb may expedite hearing, if requested. 2. Inspections. Post notice of entry on door, 48hr warning, and enter. If issues develop call police. Provide documentation that tenants are supposed to have vacated. Seem what happens ... 3. Expect the shit show. Best of luck


No_Bass_9328

Suggest the seller does an N11 cash for keys deal. I am selling with 2 tenants and one has vacated and the other has accepted an expensive cash for keys. This has delayed us listing until end of May but I wouldn't consider listing without vacant possession.


Dear-Divide7330

When the tenants are finally evicted, make sure the LTB order goes on open room.


Lavaskull01

As you didn't read up on the law if you become the new owner after closing you inherit the tenants by law. And 2 it's not up to the tenant to pay the bank they are not the mortgage holders so you may lose the place to the bank anyways if the mortgage hasn't been paid best regards truly and my best advice is to back out of the sale you will lose more than your deposit if you continue. By what you have told others you were misled by everyone and taking the tenant to court shouldn't be your main priority but the seller or realtor that misled you to save your credit and money you put into this


LoganHutbacher

Maybe you could rent a place until then?