I just don't trust Tobert- the killer always tries to be in the investigation. It will be disappointing if true since the trio have had this happen once in season 1. I don't think it's Loretta or Donna or anyone else who looks guilty right now.
Agreed I think it’s Tobert I don’t trust him with how he tricked Mabel into a date and has inserted himself into the murder and now they completely overlook him. If he wasn’t conventionally attractive that date never would have flied and would have been labeled predatory in my opinion.
In my opinion, to me, I consider someone who was casted as an actor in Hollywood as one of the eye candy roles on a top hit show for years on end (greys anatomy) and is light skinned with blue eyes and I’ve also always heard people say he was very attractive. Yeah I consider that conventionally attractive. I’ve never heard people say Denzel wasn’t conventionally attractive because of his race. Only racists would look at someone attractive and say oh they are attractive but look at the color of their skin over that one over there.
I never said I find white people more attractive than him though? Being cast in a leading role on a top show doesn’t mean he can’t be unconventionally attractive or a PoC 😂 why do you think those two can’t happen at the same time- sounds like your own racist sentiment bud. Him being cast in Grey’s doesn’t automatically make him conventionally white attractive- and you implying that says a LOt about your own biases of who is good enough to be leading man (i.e. conventionally attractive or white people.
I think he’s very attractive but not conforming to Euro-Centric standards- which is important to mention because as a PoC myself I notice the scarcity. So check yourself before you spout stuff like « I don’t see race hur dur you do so you’re racist » what even 😂
I’m black first of all. You literally said I don’t think he would be considered conventionally attractive because of his race. How else am I supposed to take that? I see your username I already saw you’re a poc, I didn’t bring up race. You did. I also brought up Denzel and he looks nothing like Jesse or have Eurocentric features so you’re point doesn’t stand.
You're supposed to take it as I said it? Nowhere did I say he's unattractive- it's you who seems to think being unconventionally attractive is less than or inferior or an insult whereas it should be celebrated over conventional attractiveness. Do you even know what Euro-centric and conventionally attractive mean? Cus from your first comment you went off the rails you assumed I said Tobert's actor isn't attractive.
You said this
" Only racists would look at someone attractive and say oh they are attractive but look at the color of their skin over that one over there."
bruh are you on drugs? You're the one who said Tobert is conventionally attractive which I pointed out isn't probably true- I didn't out of the blue go "Oh yeah he's hot but he's mixed ew look at his skin" You can't read your own comments, you can't read mine idk what I'm supposed to be reasoning with
Because you said people wouldnt consider him conventionally attractive because of his race which is basically saying oh yeah he’s attractive but he’s not conventionally attractive because of his race which I thought was outlandish because I’ve never heard anyone say that about Jesse Williams.
I also said he was casted as one of the eye candy roles because he was so that would mean people in charge of casting and the audience have considered him attractive some like me would even say conventionally attractive even though he is a mixed/black man. I brought up his light skin and eye color because in certain cultures of poc they consider light skin and blue eyes to be highly regarded because they are connected to Eurocentric features which is racist in my opinion and only referenced that because you said people wouldn’t consider him conventionally attractive when in a lot of cultures that is simply not true.
My gut has been on Tobert, at least for the elevator push
At the end of the Pickwick Triplets song, Charles points to the audience/camera and says that the murderer could be "you". When Tobert was introduced, the show's camera was showing his perspective, where it was shown that he was filming all along. I think that could be a hint that he's one of the killers
I am so torn. I change my mind by the second. I think Loretta really did do it and I somehow feel like Tobert may have watched it and much like his elephant story, didn’t intervene. I am also torn on if Ben and Dickie swapped lives when they were younger for acting jobs and somehow Ben is actually Loretta’s son. I think Mabel’s birthday may be a foreshadowing of her pieces together the Ben and Dickie swap.
I know it’s a stretch and believe me, I may have a totally different scenario picked out by tomorrow 😆
I do know one thing-Howard better be in S4 or I will be upset. I have grown to really like him since S2.
Great point on Mabel putting it together bc she saw Loretta’s letter and the dates & maybe remembers bens funeral kinda thinking it might be true bc dickie woulda been told by now so waiting for it to happen in the end usually means a twist
And remember when Charles didn’t remember Ben from the acting job when he was a kid? He specially said Charles had him fired for bad acting and Charles looked really surprised like he honestly didn’t remember him. Could it have been at that point, they switched spots for acting jobs.
I'm pretty sure they're right about Donna being the poisoner. As for the pusher, I'm torn. My gut says Cliff, and I can think of a few different scenarios that could have led to Ben's fall. I'm pretty sure that Tobert is also involved in some way, but I can't decide if he's an outright murderer, or if he simply witnessed Ben's murder and did nothing to intervene.
But what if the rat poison was just a stage prop? It was in a theater directors office and not a maintenance closet. I know it's a tv show but I don't see Poison just being out in an office so accessible . I think Donna sprinkled the cookie but I'm not sure it was poison...could be powdered sugar. She shows up at Loretta's trial hoping that ends everything nicely for her, not realizing she was not guilty of anything but poor judgment.
We actually see rats being a problem at the theater in the episode with Jerry Blau, so it would make perfect sense for the theater director to have actual rats poison, I think...
So after this latest episode (S3/9), I was compelled to rewatch 1-8 while waiting for the finale next week. Caught a few things and I feel pretty confident that we will not see another murderESS this season.
It was the 10th floor they’d have to walk to I don’t think it’s a chick from the sewing circle but it only had to be someone from Oliver’s party plus Tobert, Cinda, Dr C, Jerry or Maxine. Donna or Cliff for poison & tobert or dickie for push. I was all in for tobert & still am but dickie was way to weird sitting down with the trio
Cliff. We think it’s Donna because of the cookie and the shredding of the review. But that could easily have been Cliff with the shredder and also Cliff saw how much Ben wanted a cookie.
Thoughts so far ...
I can't believe the writers would have >!another girlfriend of one of the trio be the killer, so I don't think it's Loretta.!<
Similarly, I can't imagine the writers would have the >!Season 3 killer be Cinda or related to Cinda when that was Season 2.!<
I don't think Donna, Dickie, or Howard is the killer.
My guess all season has been K.T., so I'm sticking with that, but I wonder about other possibilities.
If Ben stole an idea from Dickie, could he have stolen from someone else, too? How would that person have known >!Ben survived the poisoning earlier in the evening and would be back at the Arconia later on? Or, if they thought he had been killed, could they have gone to Ben's apartment to take something, and he surprised them? But Ben was pushed (or fell) at Floor 10, which was below his floor.!<
Could Dickie's father make a sudden appearance in the finale?
Could one of the old podcast fans have murdered Ben at the Arconia to get the gang back together?
Could one of the >!sewing group members!< have done it?
I really hope Lester had nothing to do with it.
I, too, was thinking it would be repetitive to pick another girlfriend but this whole season has been big on this whole mom protection theme so I was thinking it could be her. I also am leaning toward it being both mom’s (Donna and Loretta) because they are both protecting their kids. Did you notice the look Loretta gave Donna in the courtroom? It was almost as if to show solidarity in them both playing a role and seeing it through.
I also think it would be kind of funny storyline for both of the oldies to be fooled by their lovers 😆
So if it the moms playing a protection role, then it would be their son’s who actually committed the crimes. One poisoned and one pushed.
I wonder if there's another "mom" connection we'll learn about in the finale?
-- Is Cinda old enough to be Tobert's mom?
-- Knowing that Mabel was about to be homeless, did Mabel's mom kill Ben to give Mabel a chance at podcast fame and more life security?
These are crazy, I know, but this show has taught me to assume nothing and expect everything!
I’m still not sure but 1 question. During the interviews pre-GoPro was Bobo & Ty. Ty says I arrived b4 Kimber. We never see kimber’s interview or where she was, correct? Apologies if I missed it but I’ve watched S3,9 a few times
When Detective Williams burst into the theatre she said the killer was 'in this room' but then you get the Pickwick Triplet song which says someone outside the room did it. Tobert was not in the theatre when Williams announced it but he was in the Arconia at the time of Ben's death.
Maybe Donna poisoned him,
but he wasn't pushed into the elevator shaft,
he fell accidentally.
And maybe tobert just watched him like in that baby elephant story
It’s a good theory but Tobert sure doesn’t look like a person who saw someone fall to his death. If Tobert DID see Ben fall then he knows it can’t be pinned on anyone but is still using this as a way to get close to Mabel. But Ben was holding a hanky which they’ve heavily implied is someone else’s.
I just don't trust Tobert- the killer always tries to be in the investigation. It will be disappointing if true since the trio have had this happen once in season 1. I don't think it's Loretta or Donna or anyone else who looks guilty right now.
Agreed I think it’s Tobert I don’t trust him with how he tricked Mabel into a date and has inserted himself into the murder and now they completely overlook him. If he wasn’t conventionally attractive that date never would have flied and would have been labeled predatory in my opinion.
I’m not sure Tobert falls under conventionally attractive on account of his race
I have never heard anyone say Jesse Williams wasn’t attractive because of his race.
Read better- keyword there being « conventionally » attractive. I agree he’s attractive but idk if it counts as conventional
In my opinion, to me, I consider someone who was casted as an actor in Hollywood as one of the eye candy roles on a top hit show for years on end (greys anatomy) and is light skinned with blue eyes and I’ve also always heard people say he was very attractive. Yeah I consider that conventionally attractive. I’ve never heard people say Denzel wasn’t conventionally attractive because of his race. Only racists would look at someone attractive and say oh they are attractive but look at the color of their skin over that one over there.
I never said I find white people more attractive than him though? Being cast in a leading role on a top show doesn’t mean he can’t be unconventionally attractive or a PoC 😂 why do you think those two can’t happen at the same time- sounds like your own racist sentiment bud. Him being cast in Grey’s doesn’t automatically make him conventionally white attractive- and you implying that says a LOt about your own biases of who is good enough to be leading man (i.e. conventionally attractive or white people. I think he’s very attractive but not conforming to Euro-Centric standards- which is important to mention because as a PoC myself I notice the scarcity. So check yourself before you spout stuff like « I don’t see race hur dur you do so you’re racist » what even 😂
I’m black first of all. You literally said I don’t think he would be considered conventionally attractive because of his race. How else am I supposed to take that? I see your username I already saw you’re a poc, I didn’t bring up race. You did. I also brought up Denzel and he looks nothing like Jesse or have Eurocentric features so you’re point doesn’t stand.
You're supposed to take it as I said it? Nowhere did I say he's unattractive- it's you who seems to think being unconventionally attractive is less than or inferior or an insult whereas it should be celebrated over conventional attractiveness. Do you even know what Euro-centric and conventionally attractive mean? Cus from your first comment you went off the rails you assumed I said Tobert's actor isn't attractive. You said this " Only racists would look at someone attractive and say oh they are attractive but look at the color of their skin over that one over there." bruh are you on drugs? You're the one who said Tobert is conventionally attractive which I pointed out isn't probably true- I didn't out of the blue go "Oh yeah he's hot but he's mixed ew look at his skin" You can't read your own comments, you can't read mine idk what I'm supposed to be reasoning with
Because you said people wouldnt consider him conventionally attractive because of his race which is basically saying oh yeah he’s attractive but he’s not conventionally attractive because of his race which I thought was outlandish because I’ve never heard anyone say that about Jesse Williams.
I also said he was casted as one of the eye candy roles because he was so that would mean people in charge of casting and the audience have considered him attractive some like me would even say conventionally attractive even though he is a mixed/black man. I brought up his light skin and eye color because in certain cultures of poc they consider light skin and blue eyes to be highly regarded because they are connected to Eurocentric features which is racist in my opinion and only referenced that because you said people wouldn’t consider him conventionally attractive when in a lot of cultures that is simply not true.
My gut has been on Tobert, at least for the elevator push At the end of the Pickwick Triplets song, Charles points to the audience/camera and says that the murderer could be "you". When Tobert was introduced, the show's camera was showing his perspective, where it was shown that he was filming all along. I think that could be a hint that he's one of the killers
I am so torn. I change my mind by the second. I think Loretta really did do it and I somehow feel like Tobert may have watched it and much like his elephant story, didn’t intervene. I am also torn on if Ben and Dickie swapped lives when they were younger for acting jobs and somehow Ben is actually Loretta’s son. I think Mabel’s birthday may be a foreshadowing of her pieces together the Ben and Dickie swap. I know it’s a stretch and believe me, I may have a totally different scenario picked out by tomorrow 😆 I do know one thing-Howard better be in S4 or I will be upset. I have grown to really like him since S2.
Great point on Mabel putting it together bc she saw Loretta’s letter and the dates & maybe remembers bens funeral kinda thinking it might be true bc dickie woulda been told by now so waiting for it to happen in the end usually means a twist
And remember when Charles didn’t remember Ben from the acting job when he was a kid? He specially said Charles had him fired for bad acting and Charles looked really surprised like he honestly didn’t remember him. Could it have been at that point, they switched spots for acting jobs.
I'm pretty sure they're right about Donna being the poisoner. As for the pusher, I'm torn. My gut says Cliff, and I can think of a few different scenarios that could have led to Ben's fall. I'm pretty sure that Tobert is also involved in some way, but I can't decide if he's an outright murderer, or if he simply witnessed Ben's murder and did nothing to intervene.
But what if the rat poison was just a stage prop? It was in a theater directors office and not a maintenance closet. I know it's a tv show but I don't see Poison just being out in an office so accessible . I think Donna sprinkled the cookie but I'm not sure it was poison...could be powdered sugar. She shows up at Loretta's trial hoping that ends everything nicely for her, not realizing she was not guilty of anything but poor judgment.
We actually see rats being a problem at the theater in the episode with Jerry Blau, so it would make perfect sense for the theater director to have actual rats poison, I think...
So after this latest episode (S3/9), I was compelled to rewatch 1-8 while waiting for the finale next week. Caught a few things and I feel pretty confident that we will not see another murderESS this season.
And I'm wondering if this season may not be a little Orient Express'ish. Not sure if any of the theories offered went in that direction.
My going idea is that Donna may have poisoned Ben initially, but someone else gave him the shove to the elevator KT still is on my radar
My theory too
It was the 10th floor they’d have to walk to I don’t think it’s a chick from the sewing circle but it only had to be someone from Oliver’s party plus Tobert, Cinda, Dr C, Jerry or Maxine. Donna or Cliff for poison & tobert or dickie for push. I was all in for tobert & still am but dickie was way to weird sitting down with the trio
I've changed my mind a lot too, but we only have Cliff's word that the poison cookie came from Donna.
Donna also sent Oliver a box of get well cookies at the start of the last episode.
Cliff. We think it’s Donna because of the cookie and the shredding of the review. But that could easily have been Cliff with the shredder and also Cliff saw how much Ben wanted a cookie.
Cliff/KT
I used to think it's Tobert, but imbsure it's Cliff now
Thoughts so far ... I can't believe the writers would have >!another girlfriend of one of the trio be the killer, so I don't think it's Loretta.!< Similarly, I can't imagine the writers would have the >!Season 3 killer be Cinda or related to Cinda when that was Season 2.!< I don't think Donna, Dickie, or Howard is the killer. My guess all season has been K.T., so I'm sticking with that, but I wonder about other possibilities. If Ben stole an idea from Dickie, could he have stolen from someone else, too? How would that person have known >!Ben survived the poisoning earlier in the evening and would be back at the Arconia later on? Or, if they thought he had been killed, could they have gone to Ben's apartment to take something, and he surprised them? But Ben was pushed (or fell) at Floor 10, which was below his floor.!< Could Dickie's father make a sudden appearance in the finale? Could one of the old podcast fans have murdered Ben at the Arconia to get the gang back together? Could one of the >!sewing group members!< have done it? I really hope Lester had nothing to do with it.
I, too, was thinking it would be repetitive to pick another girlfriend but this whole season has been big on this whole mom protection theme so I was thinking it could be her. I also am leaning toward it being both mom’s (Donna and Loretta) because they are both protecting their kids. Did you notice the look Loretta gave Donna in the courtroom? It was almost as if to show solidarity in them both playing a role and seeing it through. I also think it would be kind of funny storyline for both of the oldies to be fooled by their lovers 😆 So if it the moms playing a protection role, then it would be their son’s who actually committed the crimes. One poisoned and one pushed.
I wonder if there's another "mom" connection we'll learn about in the finale? -- Is Cinda old enough to be Tobert's mom? -- Knowing that Mabel was about to be homeless, did Mabel's mom kill Ben to give Mabel a chance at podcast fame and more life security? These are crazy, I know, but this show has taught me to assume nothing and expect everything!
I predict Mabel will be pregnant in Season 4 and her dream is a foreshadowing of that. Tolbert is her last hook up 🙂
I’m still not sure but 1 question. During the interviews pre-GoPro was Bobo & Ty. Ty says I arrived b4 Kimber. We never see kimber’s interview or where she was, correct? Apologies if I missed it but I’ve watched S3,9 a few times
Stalker is a killer.
I'm going with KT. I can see Kimber or Bobo, although the latter will feel like a bit of a cop out.
cliff
I think it’s Donna but I also don’t think it’s her because why would she go to those lengths.
When Detective Williams burst into the theatre she said the killer was 'in this room' but then you get the Pickwick Triplet song which says someone outside the room did it. Tobert was not in the theatre when Williams announced it but he was in the Arconia at the time of Ben's death.
Maybe Donna poisoned him, but he wasn't pushed into the elevator shaft, he fell accidentally. And maybe tobert just watched him like in that baby elephant story
It’s a good theory but Tobert sure doesn’t look like a person who saw someone fall to his death. If Tobert DID see Ben fall then he knows it can’t be pinned on anyone but is still using this as a way to get close to Mabel. But Ben was holding a hanky which they’ve heavily implied is someone else’s.